Jews moving Rightwards

Posted by Guessedworker on February 25, 2005, 09:12 AM | #

Traditionally in Britain the Jewish vote is split 50/50 right-left.  This can be viewed as an unusually Conservative outcome when compared to, for example, Jewish political loyalties in America.  But based on income comparisons within the UK gentile population it’s a different picture.  A 50/50 vote is far more leftish than one sees elsewhere.

Posted by Braveheart on February 25, 2005, 09:20 AM | #

Reaction to: “a small but vocal number of Jews are supporting a far-right party whose founders were Nazi collaborators.”

With that party the New York Times means of course Vlaams Belang (Flemish Interest). I have no knowledge of a direct reaction of Flemish Interest. But meanwhile there was also a comprehensive article in Time Magazine http://www.time.com/time/europe/html/050228/story.html and to that article there was a Flemish Interest reaction (in Dutch) http://www.vlaamsbelang.org/index.php?p=0&id=333 in which they implicitly denied the accusations of the New York Times’ last article about Nazi collaboration by their founders, in fact founder Karel Dillen.

Personally I meanwhile already had written an email of protest to the New York Times myself (in annex). Up to now there was no response. But the NON-collaboration with the Nazis perhaps precisely explains why Jews in Antwerp are not reluctant to vote Flemish Interest! One must not agree with everything Karel Dillen (the founder) has said or written or translated (he made a living out of it), but he surely was no Nazi collaborator. Certainly not.

But perhaps the NYT simply thinks that they are right because they consulted in a former article, dating from a week before, http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/12/international/europe/12belgium.html?pagewanted=1
Marco Martiniello, a political scientist at the University of Liège in the French-speaking part of Belgium. Marco Martiniello who also writes for the left-liberal newspaper Le Soir http://www.lesoir.be/recherche/recherche.php This Belgian newspaper orchestrates the international hate-campaign against Flemish Interest, mind you. Thus in fact the New York Times consorted with the devil.

I also know where much of the confusion comes from. Indeed, there exists a picture out of Karel Dillen’s (the founder) youth were he greets with stretched arm.  http://www.skynetblogs.be/images.php?image=345352_Dillengroet3.jpg (copy and paste). But before World War II this kind of greeting was widespread,not only among fascists. In fact it was even a Roman custom. Other similar example of a distortion.There is also a such a picture of actual mainstream Flemish Interest politician Filip Dewinter http://www.skynetblogs.be/images.php?image=345289_dewinterhhKL.jpg (copy and paste), actively spread by Flemish Interest’s opponents http://blokwatch.skynetblogs.be/index.php Only, it was shot when Dewinter was sworn in in parliament. Much also depends upon the angle from which a picture is taken. On the blokwatch web-site are seen other visual effects: a shadow that suggests a Hitler-moustache to Filip Dewinter, a burka made out of a Flemish flag…

Meanwhile this NYT article has got much attention around the globe. In Turkey it was eagerly read, I happen to know. The message was: “Look how bad Jews are, they consort with the Flemish Nazis, the biggest party in that region”. Other prejudices needed?

ANNEX: MY EMAIL
Verzonden: maandag 21 februari 2005 13:04
Aan: ‘foreign@nytimes.com’
CC: ‘batyeor@club-soft.ch’; ‘President@goedkosjer.org’
Onderwerp: Reaction to Europe’s Jews Seek Solace on the Right By CRAIG S. SMITH Published: February 20, 2005 http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/weekinreview/20smit.html

Dear Sirs,

I want to protest, because the New York Times has written things which are false. At the same time they are insulting for Jews and Flemish. Don’t make collaborators out of the resistance!

Indeed, at their web-site, Vlaams Belang writes about the New York Times http://www.vlaamsbelang.org/index.php?p=0&id=311:” The only little error was the statement that the founders of the Flemish block (Vlaams Belang’s predecessor) were people who collaborated with the Nazi’s during the second world war “. This Vlaams Belang remark (concerning Karel Dillen, the founder) was in fact a reaction to the NYT’s first article: “Fear of Islamists Drives Growth of Far Right in Belgium”. Published: February 12, 2005, but it applies to this new article as well.

This time however I want to lodge a protest, because with the second NYT article, indirectly the good fame of the Antwerp Jews and the Flemish is involved and it also makes the link with the holocaust. Moreover Vlaams Belang’s assertion of innocence can be documented (in Dutch): http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_Dillen. so that there is no doubt. To compare, conservative Franz Josef Strauß (CSU) 1978-1988 in Bavaria wasn’t a Nazi either, even at a time when everybody in Germany was expected to be party member.  From Karel Dillen was expected that he would collaborate too, but neither did he. Such things exist! BTW it is well-known that Filip Dewinter descends from a good resistance family against the Nazis (his grandfather and father were active resistant/refused to work in Germany).

Because party founder Dillen refused to collaborate with the Nazi’s and actual mainstream politician Dewinter even descends from a resistance family, I feel it as an insult to the Antwerp Jews and to all Flemish that the NYT suggests that Flander’s biggest party has Nazi origins.

I also think one should make the difference in Europe between the far-right (France/Austria) with one strong leader (Le Pen/Haider), often condoning Hitler’s policies and the more modern HARD-right parties (Italy, Flanders in Belgium, Denmark). I even think that it is no accident that the latter three parties are friendly to Jews.

Yours truly,

Flanders

Posted by Fred Scrooby on February 25, 2005, 02:41 PM | #

Regarding that article’s description of the Vlaams Belang as “xenophobic,” etc.:

The New York Times, in very aggressively supporting genocide of white-Euro Christian nations by ethnic cleansing (exactly what’s going on right now in Flanders and throughout Western, Central, and Mediterranean Europe) and attacking those white-Euro Christians who try to defend themselves against this genocide, reveal themselves to be the Nazis, not those whom they accuse.  As everyone knows, the best way for a pickpocket not to get caught is to pick a pocket then run down the street yelling “Stop thief!” at the top of his lungs.  But leftists are always vile, disgusting genocidal liars, so this behavior comes as no surprise of course.  I appreciate Braveheart’s explanations but none were needed, any more than explanations are needed when, for example, The Southern-Carpetbagger Poverty-Pimp Lawless Left-of-Center accuses someone as being “a hater.” They’re the haters—the SPLC are the haters, of course, exactly as the people who run The New York Times are the Nazis.  No one need lose any sleep nights over being accused by the hate-filled, genocide-mongering bunch of psychotic perverted hyper-leftist misfit mental defectives who own and run the NYT of being this or that.  Whatever they accuse someone of being, they themselves are exactly that in spades, one can be certain.

Point number two:  Neither the Jews in Europe nor the Jews in the U.S. will ever vote majority right (or conservative or whatever it’s called).  They’ll never do it.  The Jews in the U.S. will never change their voting pattern of roughly 80/20 Dem/Republican no matter what happens politically.  For the mentally defective genocidal-maniac haters who run the NYT, if so much as one Jew anywhere in the world votes to the right of Karl Marx, Joseph Stalin, Vladimir Lenin, Mao Tse-Tung, Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega, or Pol Pot, it’s a horrifying new change that signifies Jews are all becoming extreme right-wingers, and they feel they have to sound the alarm.  They and their pychosis can be safely ignored.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on February 25, 2005, 02:43 PM | #

Long live Flanders!

Posted by Svigor on February 25, 2005, 05:01 PM | #

I wondered why no one in the other thread was mentioning the Jewish involvment in Vlaams Blok/Belang.  I meant to mention it and forgot to.

Posted by Matra on February 25, 2005, 05:05 PM | #

The New York Times has an official poicy of not printing a letter that disputes the accuracy of one of their articles!

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/02/new-york-times-wont-print-critical.html

Posted by Matra on February 25, 2005, 05:10 PM | #

When I asked the question in the Sweden thread about Jews in Antwerp, Belgium and the Vlaams Blok I was hoping they gave more than just 5% of their vote to the Blok. But, at least it’s a start. Hopefully Vlaams Belang will get a bigger share.

Posted by James Chan on February 25, 2005, 06:31 PM | #

So, some Jews are supporting Neo-Conservative parties in Europe.  Before accepting this as positive, I would suggest reading some of Professor Kevin MacDonald’s:

http://www.vdare.com/misc/macdonald_neoconservatism.htm

http://www.theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol3no2/km-understanding.html

http://www.theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol3no3/km-understandII.html

http://www.theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol4no2/km-understandIII.html

http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/books-Preface.html

Posted by Matra on February 25, 2005, 07:39 PM | #

The Flemish nationalists don’t strike me as being anything like neoconservatives.

The British Tories come closer, but if you’ve read what US neocons have had to say about the party under Michael Howard you’ll know they don’t exactly see eye to eye. Mark Steyn and some neocon bloggers have made it clear they’d prefer Labour to win the next election. Howard, you see, has had the temerity to try to weaken his Labour opponents by criticising Blair’s foreign policy. Apparently US-based neocons don’t think it’s legitimate for opposition parties to try to defeat governments that have been loyal to Bush.

Posted by Phil Peterson on February 25, 2005, 08:25 PM | #

This article strikes me as a case of deducing a trend out of nothing.

There is no major “rightward” shift as Paul Gottfried’s article shows:

http://www.vdare.com/gottfried/hysteria.htm

The point is that politics in the entire west has kept moving leftwards (yeah Yeah I know, people like Tax Cuts now!!). On the issues that matter, the Left has won. Let us not kid ourselves here gentlemen.

When some politician manages to reduce taxation or introduce de-regulation, we celebrate like drunks after the end of prohibition.

BUT, and the left knows this, all these so-called “conservative” victories mean nothing. The the long term the Left will win because it has been successful in destroying the very basis of the idea of a Nation. That means you can import any number of aliens who will be living off the state (The Somali refugees in Britain do not work as Bankers you know), bring new laws that will destroy free speech (because the more diverse society becomes, the greater the friction between its disparate groups and hence the need for “hate” laws), the protection every few years of a new protected minority - homosexuals, bi-sexuals, people who like Animals (and I don’t mean in the nature lover/hunter manly Teddy Roosevelt sort of way!), transvestites, you name it.

The result is the destruction of the country and the very values “conservatives” like to Champion - Liberty, self-help, limited government, morality, family. These things are what I shall call the long-term health system of a society. Destroy that and there’s nothing left.

Once those things are destroyed talking about Social Security Privatization becomes an example “extreme right-wing” politics. Talking of a morning player to the Lord becomes a case of “religious bigtory”.

The monster the left has created will ultimately destroy the left too. Once Islamic fanatics have control, Id like to see what they do about sodomy. But the Left is too psychopathic to see that and understand that. It HATES the Traditional West and anything, ANYTHING that destroys it is good enough.

Now as for Jews, with parties moving left-ward all the time, the Tories of today represent the Lib Dems of the 1960s. On immigration, every protest must be followed by 3 page long disclaimers about “Racism”. Also, the Left has now moved so far Left that it has become hostile to Israel.

So the movement of Jews into the “centre-right” is inevitable to some extent.

Fred,

Do you think Jews would vote 80-20 for the Dems if the Dems got as hostile to Israel as the European left? I doubt it.

Posted by Phil Peterson on February 25, 2005, 08:42 PM | #

Paul Gottfried’s magnificent piece on the late Sam Francis is immensely illuminating on this subject:

http://www.vdare.com/gottfried/050224_sam.htm

Posted by Braveheart on February 26, 2005, 10:55 AM | #

The New York Times on the warpath against Vlaams Belang.

1) Their Belgian source (the long arm of the left-liberal newspaper Le Soir) is Professor Marco Martiniello. For the content of his course at the university, see (in English) http://progcours.ulg.ac.be/cocoon/cours/SOCI0004-1.html Certainly no friend of Vlaams Belang.
2) The number of Jews in Antwerp voting Vlaams Belang.  Are the exit polls reliable? “At least 5%” seems very low if I see how Vlaams Belang is bosom friend with the rabbis. But perhaps the Jews are afraid to reveal their support? The same phenomenon can be observed among ordinary Flemish.
3) A commentator above writes that the New York Times never prints critical letters. But what they did here is in fact even the opposite. See: http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?query=vlaams&date_select=full&srchst=nyt
On February 12, 2005 they published a rather balanced first article (full text in annex). Let’s say that the journalist came open-minded to Flanders and noted what he saw. But then it apparently went wrong. Big Boss in New York must have been shocked. Or was it Professor Marco Martiniello who took the telephone? At any event the first article was probably considered to be too favourable for Vlaams Belang. A second article was necessary, the one we are debating now, the “corrected” one, the one in which ideology became more important.

ANNEX: text of the New York Times’ first feature:

FEAR OF ISLAMISTS DRIVES GROWTH OF FAR RIGHT IN BELGIUM
By CRAIG S. SMITH
Published: February 12, 2005

ANTWERP, Belgium - Filip Dewinter, a boyish man in a dark blue suit, bounds up two flights of steep stairs in his political party’s 19th-century headquarters building where posters show a Muslim minaret rising menacingly above the Gothic steeple of the city’s cathedral.
“The radical Muslims are organizing themselves in Europe,” he declared. “Other political parties, they are very worried about the Muslim votes and say let’s be tolerant, while we are saying - the new political forces in Europe are saying - no, we should defend our identity.”

From the Freedom Party in Austria to the National Front in France to the Republicans in Germany, Europe’s far right has made a comeback in recent years, largely on the strength of anti-immigration feelings sharpened to a fear of Islam. That fear is fed by threats of terrorism, rising crime rates among Muslim youth and mounting cultural clashes with the Continent’s growing Islamic communities.
But nowhere has the right’s revival been as swift or as strong as in Belgium’s Dutch-speaking region of Flanders, where support for Mr. Dewinter’s Vlaams Belang, or Flemish Interest, has surged from 10 percent of the electorate in 1999 to nearly a quarter today.
Vlaams Belang is now the strongest party in Flanders, with support from a third of the voters in Antwerp, the region’s largest city. Many people worry that the appeal of antiIslamic politics will continue to spread as Europe’s Muslim population grows.
“What they all have in common is that they use the issue of immigration and Islam to motivate and mobilize frustrated people,” said Marco Martiniello, a political scientist at the University of Liège in the French-speaking part of Belgium. “In Flanders all attempts to counter the march of the Vlaams Belang have had no results, or limited results, and no one really knows what to do.”
Fear of Islam’s transforming presence is so strong that even many members of Antwerp’s sizable Jewish community now support Mr. Dewinter’s party, even though its founders included men who sympathized and collaborated with the Nazis during World War II.
Many of those supporters are Jews who feel threatened by a new wave of anti-Semitism emanating from Europe’s growing Muslim communities. The friction is acutely felt in central Antwerp, where the Jewish quarter abuts the newer Muslim neighborhood of Borgerhout.
There, Hasidic diamond traders cross paths daily with Muslim youths, for many of whom conservative Islam has become an ideology of rebellion against perceived oppression. Israeli-Palestinian violence produces a dangerous echo here: anti-Israel marches have featured the burning in effigy of Hasidic Jews, and last June a Jewish teenager was critically wounded in a knife attack by a group of Muslim youths.
“Their values are not the right values,” said Henri Rosenberg, a Talmudic scholar and lawyer who is an Orthodox Jew, speaking of the Muslim community. Though he is the son of concentration camp survivors and his grandparents died in camps, he campaigned on behalf of Vlaams Belang, then named Vlaams Blok, in regional elections last year.

Posted by Braveheart on February 26, 2005, 10:56 AM | #

(part 2)
As the right rallies beneath an anti-Muslim banner, European Muslims themselves have become increasingly politically engaged.
The community is far too divided along religious, racial and national lines to present a unified political force, so most of Europe’s Muslim politicians have allied themselves with socialists or other left-leaning parties. But radical Muslims are also getting involved, and in many ways they are helping to validate the fears that keep parties like Vlaams Belang alive.
Behind the wooden door of a brick Brussels town house, Jean-François Bastin, 61, a Belgian convert to Islam, holds court before a steady stream of Islamic activists. His fledgling Young Muslims Party is one of the new groups aggressively pursuing pro-Muslim agendas in Europe.
He calls Osama bin Laden “a modern Robin Hood,” and the World Trade Center attacks “a poetic act,” “a pure abstraction.” His 23-year-old son is in jail in Turkey on charges that he was involved in the bombings there that killed 61 people in November 2003.
But Mr. Bastin argues that his son’s troubles are evidence that Muslim youths feel politically excluded in Europe. He says political engagement is an antidote to militancy.

(Page 2 of 2)
“There is deviance because people don’t find their place here,” he said, a long, hennaed beard falling over the front of his Arab-style tunic, his graying hair tucked beneath a turban fashioned from a multicolored head scarf. “If we deny that political voice that can judge and determine what is good for Muslims, from the point of view of their religion and their citizenship, their children are going to look for adventures elsewhere.”

Mr. Bastin, who converted to Islam in 1972 after a spiritual quest led him to Morocco, dismisses the far right’s fears of an Islamization of Europe, even if he does dream of an Islamic theocracy governing the Continent someday.
“Were not talking about Shariah now,” he said, referring to the Islamic legal code that fundamentalist Muslims believe should be the foundation of society. “Were talking about Belgian Muslims being recognized on the same footing as other confessions and ideologies.”
In many ways radical Islamists like Mr. Bastin are holding Europe’s broader, moderate Muslim population hostage, attracting attention disproportionate to their numbers.
“You have, in the current context, people who feel legitimized being anti-Muslim,” said Mr. Martiniello, the political scientist. He cited the case of a Belgian man who had received death threats for employing a woman who wore a Muslim head scarf.
Many of the extreme right’s supporters see Islam’s growing European presence as the latest, most powerful surge of a Muslim tide that has ebbed and flowed since the religion spread to the Continent in the eighth century. They warn that lax immigration policies, demographic trends and a strong Muslim agenda will forever alter Europe.
The Continent’s Muslim population, now 20 million, grew from a postwar labor shortage that was filled with workers from North Africa and Turkey. By the 1980’s economic malaise and rising unemployment had created tension between the largely Muslim immigrants and the surrounding societies.
But family reunion policies, which granted visas to family members of immigrants already in Europe, fueled another, more sustained wave of immigration that continues today.
“We were very naïve,” Mr. Dewinter said of the liberal policies. He called tolerance Europe’s Achilles’ heel and immigration Islam’s Trojan horse.
The trend is even more distressing to the far right when considering the low birthrate of Europe’s traditional populations and the likelihood that more workers will need to be imported in the coming decades to broaden the tax bases of the Continent’s aging societies.
Already about 4,000 to 5,000 Flemish residents are leaving Antwerp every year, while 5,000 to 6,000 non-European immigrants arrive annually in the city, Mr. Dewinter said. Within 10 years, he predicts, people of non-European backgrounds will account for more than a third of Antwerp’s population.
“It’s growing very, very fast,” Mr. Dewinter said. “Maybe that will be the end of Europe.”

Posted by Fred Scrooby on February 26, 2005, 08:22 PM | #

“Already about 4,000 to 5,000 Flemish residents are leaving Antwerp every year, while 5,000 to 6,000 non-European immigrants arrive annually in the city, Mr. Dewinter said. Within 10 years, he predicts, people of non-European backgrounds will account for more than a third of Antwerp’s population.  ‘It’s growing very, very fast,’ Mr. Dewinter said.  ‘Maybe that will be the end of Europe.’ ”

John Ray, here is your race-replacement (deliberately conceived, planned, and executed—the people pushing this know exactly what they’re doing, rest assured).  It’s all being done on purpose mainly by gentiles but also by other forces (Jews are taking part, out of a combination of leftist motivations and purely Jewish ones).  Do you still think it’s the silliest thing you’ve ever heard of?  (No need to answer that rhetorical question.  Of course the answer is, “Yes, I still think it’s the silliest thing I’ve ever heard of.")