Does race mixing increase physical attractiveness?
Does race mixing increase the likelihood of physical attractiveness? Armand Marie Leroi, a developmental biologist at Imperial College, London, seems to think so, and as proof he offers the example of the “world’s most beautiful woman”: Saira Mohan, whose mother is French/Irish and father is Hindoo.
Figure 1: Saira Mohan on the cover of Newsweek, Nov. 10, 2003 (article here).
What logic does Leroi use to arrive at his curious assertion? Leroi asserts, correctly, that fewer deleterious mutations--that are associated with gene expression--should correspond to greater physical attractiveness. Leroi also notes, correctly, that deleterious mutations are typically recessive, i.e., will manifest in structure/function if one gets the same copy from both parents but not if one has only one copy. Leroi then argues that since recessive deleterious mutations vary by race, race-mixing should decrease the likelihood of obtaining identical copies of deleterious mutations from both parents, which should correspond to greater physical attractiveness in the mixed-race offspring.
Great logic, isn’t it? One hardly need mention that such logic is well-received by the likes of Razib of GNXP. Let us address this logic.
To start with, a gorilla with no deleterious mutations would be roughly as ugly--to the typical human--as a gorilla with dozens of deleterious mutations, i.e., there is obviously much more to beauty than the prevalence of deleterious mutations. Clearly, various physical traits have to be within certain bounds to be considered attractive. Indeed, it has been shown that beautiful faces--within a race--tend to have multiple anatomical traits close to the center of the trait distributions in their race. [1-3] As a side note, the most beautiful faces tend to somewhat deviate from the center of some trait distributions, but this does not concern us at present.
Is there any significance to having multiple average anatomical traits? Yes, there is. Compared to individuals with multiple outlier anatomical traits, individuals with multiple average anatomical traits appear better equipped to canalize development well--i.e., channel development along the right developmental pathways--and to buffer against developmental perturbations. [4, 5] This should be intuitive: there is a correlation structure to genetic information--that varies by species and race--and there is bound to be a restricted range of the genetic-correlation-structure matrix that corresponds to optimal functioning.
The centers of the trait distributions of facial features--as well as several other anatomical traits--vary by race. If two individuals of different races--both having multiple average traits within their respective races--were to breed, the offspring would not have multiple average traits of either parental race. How well-functioning will this individual be with respect to canalization of development and developmental stability compared to his parents? This question in best answered at a statistical level since some offspring resulting from same-race matings manifest poor canalization of development and evidence of not having effectively dealt with developmental perturbations, whereas many mixed-race individuals are healthy. As I will address in detail in a future post, the overall health of major mixed-race populations such as South Asians, South American Latinos, and African-Americans is worse than that of major populations with little other-population admixture such as Northwestern Europeans and Northeastern Asians.
On the other hand, since recessive deleterious mutations are typically rare, the potential adverse health consequences of notably altering race-specific genetic correlation structures outweigh the possible race-mixing benefits related to decreasing the likelihood of obtaining identical copies of recessive deleterious mutations from parents belonging to different races.
Leroi and Razib need to understand that in so far as physical attractiveness related to a genetic constitution associated with better canalization of development and developmental stability is concerned, mixed-race individuals are expected to be, on average, worse off than individuals with little other-race genetic admixture. Razib may mention hybrid vigor (offspring better than parents, overall, on average) and ignore the possibility of what appears to be more likely--which I will elaborate on in the future: outbreeding depression (offspring worse than parents, overall, on average).
The attractiveness of mixed-race individuals should be compared with that of their parents using non-arbitrary standards. This is very difficult in several cases. For instance, if the parental races are very different looking, and the mixed-race offspring look in between, then the exacting beauty standards that apply to the race of one parent could not be applied to the race of the other parent, and both exacting beauty standards could not be applied to the offspring. On the other hand, in cases of race mixing where one parent is white and the other a black African or Chinese, the offspring overwhelmingly look like the non-white parent, and their beauty is best compared to that of their non-white parent.
It is commonly observed that African-Americans generally hold the looks of notably “whitified” persons such as Halle Berry or Vanessa Williams in higher regard than the looks of the black Africans from West Africa from whom they are descended. Similarly, some Asians undergo corrective surgery to straighten their eyelids (blepharoplasty), reduce the size of their cheekbones (malarplasty), make their nose more projecting (rhinoplasty), etc. On the other hand, whites who undergo cosmetic facial surgery never try to acquire the facial features of black Africans or flat-faced Asians; rather, they attempt to acquire classic Northern European facial traits. Therefore, from the perspective of whites--and undoubtedly some non-whites, too--white/non-white mixtures are less attractive than the white parent, on average, but more attractive than the non-white parent, on average.
Armand Marie Leroi uses an example of a white/Hindoo mix, where the Hindoo comes from Northwestern India, a region known to harbor many people with the major facial features of Europeans (Figure 2).
Figure 2: The parents of Saira Mohan: French/Irish mother and Hindoo father.
As can be seen in Figure 3, if one ignores skin color, Saira Mohan’s facial features are well-within the variation seen in Europe. Therefore, given that Leroi calls Mohan the “world’s most beautiful woman,” her facial features should be judged by European [high] standards.
In the images shown below, please ignore pigmentation. Firstly, it is clear that Saira Mohan is not very feminine looking (Figure 3): note masculine glabellar (forehead) projection, low-set eyebrows, projecting [beyond feminine norm] nose, and general overall masculinization.
Figure 3: The face of supermodel Saira Mohan, a woman that is not very feminine looking.
Saira Mohan’s nostrils (Figure 4) clearly deviate from the classic European type (Figure 5).
Figure 4: Saira Mohan’s nostrils are more typical of non-Europeans.
Figure 5: The aesthetic range of nostril shapes in white women.
Note that Saira Mohan’s cheekbones are more robust than that of beautiful white women, on average (see Figures 4 and 5). A beautiful white woman would be expected to have fine nasal bones that are flattened on the sides, which Saira Mohan does not possess (Figure 6).
Figure 6: Compare the robust nasal bone structure of Saira Mohan with the fine nose typically seen in beautiful white women.
Finally, compare Saira Mohan to the beautiful white women shown below (Figure 7).
Figure 7: Some beautiful white women.
In summary, since European beauty standards--with respect to facial anatomy but not pigmentation--can be applied to the facial features of Saira Mohan, it is very clear that there are many white women far more beautiful than her. Armand Marie Leroi is talking patent nonsense by calling her a great beauty. Leroi is not taking the specifics of anatomy into account, something that is central to beauty. Indeed, who in his rational mind would believe that the beauty of white women--such as depicted in Figure 7--could be increased via the absorption of non-whites among whites? It would be difficult to obtain a fine-featured Caucasoid if any of the white women shown in Figures 5 and 7 bred with a Hindoo. On the other hand, the aesthetic consequences of breeding with flat-faced Asians or black Africans requires no comment.
Literature Cited:
1. Langlois JH, Roggman LA: Attractive faces are only average. Psychological Science, 1990, 1:115-121.
2. Langlois JH, Roggman LA, Musselman L: What is average and what is not average about attractive faces. Psychological Science, 1994, 5:214-220.
3. Rhodes G, Yoshikawa S, Clark A, Lee K, McKay R, Akamatsu S: Attractiveness of facial averageness and symmetry in non-Western cultures: in search of biologically based standards of beauty. Perception, 2001, 30:611-625.
4. Livshits G, Kobyliansky E: Dermatoglyphic traits as possible markers of developmental processes in humans. American Journal of Medical Genetics, 1987, 26:111-122.
5. Rhodes G, Zebrowitz LA, Clark A, Kalick SM, Hightower A, McKay R: Do facial averageness and symmetry signal health? Evolution and Human Behavior, 2001, 22:31-46.
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Page 6 of 6 pages « FirstP < 4 5 6
“Svigor”,
The author of this thread has made some ridiculous claims against mixed race people. You too, seem to share his venom. Your ideas instigate hatred, and that is why it is illegal. Just because you feel threatened with replacement by mixed race people, does not mean that you have the right to suppress their existence.
p.s. so far you all whine about how superiour you are, but nobody dared to post a photo. lol
Most mulattoes look way better than their white/black parents. It’s not a coincidence that they are prefered in the showbiz.
They’re not “preferred” in showbiz; they’re foisted on viewers. Since waking up to the world around me, few things annoy me more than seeing some negro inappropriately placed in some unlikely role in a movie just for the sake of having a negro there—it’s matched only by the imperative movie makers feel to spring a faggot on you in a movie that has nothing to do with gays for no reason other than that they want to.
And, of course, if you ever pay attention to Latin American TV, the producers there seem to make a conscious effort to keep blacks/mulattoes off the screens and purposely fill them with… you guessed it… whites.
Silver, un-mixed people are o.k., but mixed are even better
Unmixed what, lovely? They are better than the non-white half they are mixed with, but sorry babe, they are not better than the white half. And your standards for determining whether they are better are abysmal: you have to look at the average of what occurs, not simply pick out one-in-a-million examples like Adriana Lima, who I can admit is quite nice, but, hehe, I am just thoroughly utterly sick and tired of blacks that in my mind she’s now nothing.
(But if blacks could show some damn humility for once in their damned lives, I’d be the first to shut my mouth.)
As for that Arab, I actually like that look quite a bit. But lovely, I have lived in Arab neighborhoods (had many Arab friends, for that matter) and the average Arab looks a long way off that… and nope, she’s not better than a white, either.
Look. You’re obviously upset. If you weren’t, you simply wouldn’t bother posting as much as you do. But if it upsets you to hear one group claim superiority, why do you do the same thing? If your feelings are hurt by whites claiming they are better than you (whatever you are), then why do you imagine their feelings wouldn’t be hurt by you telling them that they are no good, that mixed people are better than them? That’s a horrible double-standard.
Posted by silver on Sunday, June 22, 2008 at 08:48 PM | #
They are better than the non-white half they are mixed with, but sorry babe, they are not better than the white half.
“Silver”, look at this perfect human being, woooooooow- facts talk for itself!
Adriana Lima is not an exception, she just happened to be available on Google. There are plenty better looking mixed race girls compared to her.
She is definitely not the best looking Middle Eastrener, but compared to the women posted by the author of this thread, she’s better.As for that Arab
You’re obviously upset. If you weren’t, you simply wouldn’t bother posting as much as you do
I’m far from being upset but I do like talking to misguided people.
BTW, when you are ready to show me your photo, let me know. I’ll show you mine.
Posted by lovely on Sunday, June 22, 2008 at 09:26 PM | #
Here is the beautiful daughter of Iman and David
Wow, what beauties!
http://adrienneslittleworld.typepad.com/a_glimpse_of_me_a_peek_in/images/2008/05/07/iman.jpg
Posted by lovely on Sunday, June 22, 2008 at 09:50 PM | #
The mulatto daughter of Iman and David
http://celebritybabies.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/09/04/iman_070904_01_cbb.jpg
Posted by lovely on Sunday, June 22, 2008 at 09:53 PM | #
lovely,
One of several errors common to this very thread is, as silver explained, the tendency for judgements on both sides of the argument, not just yours, to be based on exceptions. Judgements have to be based on the averages of measurements of particular features. Read the post and see how J Richards discusses trait distribution by race.
Another error is the conflation, extremely common among on your side, that rejection of all things diverse is “hate” or “racism”. Why would not your point of view by hateful and racist towards Europeans? Can you explain why, for example, it is “hate” and “racism” to defend one’s people, one’s land, one’s culture, one’s interests, but not “hate” and “racism” to trespass against all these things? Have you the slightest idea how profoundly you trespass against us?
I could go on. But, like Svi, I am disinterested in dialogue with the deaf.
Posted by Guessedworker on Sunday, June 22, 2008 at 10:34 PM | #
Oh my this post has really progressed. Hey Lovely!
I agree with you somewhat. I really hate that on this site they push how “ugly” every other race is compared to whites and how that is reason enough to “dislike” everyone else.
The more i think of it the more i don’t understand how can media be so influential in changing people’s choice of mates - referring to race replacement. How is it that so many White men are going out with Asian women and White women with Black men? It really can’t be the media alone can it? I have always found the same type of women attractive although i have lived in many countries. I personally find Indian women the most beautiful even though i live in Canada and hardly ever see that represented in the media here. It is always White women or African American women in the media here.
Now Let me ask you all look at the picture of Saira Mohan and her parents and tell me ignoring pigmentation who does she most resemble???
From what i can see she looks very similar to her mother (feature wise) but not pigmentation. This comment is to all those people who think Saira Mohan is unattractive and that Mixed children look worse than their White parent.
My own personal reason for being against race replacement is a biological one. I like seeing different types of people existing/co-existing. The white phenotype (blond/blue) is “recessive” and is almost always lost when mating with Non whites. So in other words i would like this phenotype/genotype to be preserved just like i really want some Native American peoples to be preserved (Those in the news recently). This does not mean that i think one race is “superior” to another. But due to the “sensitivity” of the “Nordic phenotype” it might require special attention. That said I read up here that there are only 4% interracial marriages. So maybe this interracial mating is not the issue. Globally the white population is in decline due to low birth rates - result of modernity, progress, women’s rights etc.
Maybe that issue of low birth rate needs to be encouraged? Maybe whites should start breeding like rabbits? All you white guys want to volunteer? :D
Although i feel your “white women” are not going to let that happen....anytime soon.
Posted by Peter on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 04:05 AM | #
I meant to say the issue of low birth rates needs to be tackled.
Also this Svigor character is getting on my nerves with his depilatory talk! White women are hairier than Asian or African women....Anyone will tell you that. There you go in your face
Also she looks better to me than many of the white women posted above
http://images.askmen.com/galleries/actress/mallika-sherawat/pictures/mallika-sherawat-picture-1.jpg
Posted by Peter on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 04:15 AM | #
To lovely,
I am Asian. Just letting you know in case you think Im White or European and dislike the idea that Whites are being “cleanse”. I am not trying to instill my thoughts onto you. But if you look deeper you will see that most IR marriages are mostly done in disregard for the rest of the family’s opinion. Most individuals who have IR relationship will have the rest of the family going against them but the family are “force to accept”. Looking deeper this is a sign of selfishness on the part of the individuals. Admit it. There are a lot out there who dates a certain race just for that purpose. Others have self hate. Some will say this person is nice, so and so. You can find someone with the same qualities within your group.
What I find very strange is how others label those who have love for their culture and people as being racist. But its ok for them to have self hate and that isnt racist. Which is worest?
For those IR who do it for the purpose of race...think about this...when you have a child...that child will be of the color you dislike. Which is you, your own race/culture. You cant erase or run away from that. So how can you say you fully love your child when you dont even love what you are. Too many people are afraid to look deeper.
To the ones that have love for their culture...keep it real. Married within your culture. Unlike what others and this articles is saying, every race has it’s beauty. Spread the words before one day there wont be anymore culture and value. What is happening CAN’T be undone. For those in IR, dont be so selfish. True, you live once, or you love who you want, etc etc. But think about the future, what this world will be like. But why should you care right…
Posted by shame on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 04:16 AM | #
“Guessedworker”
You can preserve your race and culture together with people who volunteer. But calling other people “inferior”, and creating negative and derogatory ideas against them is going nowhere. It is wrong to force and attack people, no matter what your motivation is. Simple as that!
“Peter” Eventually we are all going to mix with Indians and Chinese, the two major populations. That does not botter me at all, because to me world peace is more important than anything else. We can no longer afford to live in a world of our own. People from different countries and cultures meet in every day life.
“shame” You have the right to follow whatever your think is right, but you should keep your morals to yourslef and let other people decide for themselves. There will always be people who choose love over culture and race, and the other way around. As long as they are free to make the choice, that’s fine. What you suggest is called repression, and that creates frustration, not future!
Here is another beauty!Leah Dizon [Chinese+Filipino+French]
http://mgccl.com/gallery2/main.php/d/976/1
Posted by lovely on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 09:36 AM | #
The attack is yours, ours the defence. You do not appear to be able to morally distinguish between the two, and even consider yourself the victim. You are the aggressor.
Posted by Guessedworker on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 10:07 AM | #
“You can preserve your race and culture together with people who volunteer.”
Given the choice, most whites want to preserve their race and culture; they NATURALLY would prefer racially/ethnically homogeneous countries… whites’ hyper individualism notwithstanding,
In multiracial countries, [e.g., USA], whites, at least, want a voluntary system where we can live in all white neighborhoods; blacks can live in all black neighborhoods; Mexicans can live in all Mexican neighborhoods, etc. There also should be multicultural/multiracial areas where people could VOLUNTEER to live.
The problem is: Whites DO NOT have the option to “volunteer” to preserve their race and culture. The ruling elites have declared we MUST integrate. What is being FORCED on people of European decent is nothing short of moral outrage!
The current immigration and FORCED integration system is vile and MUST be changed; it is resulting in the absorption of the white genepool into the “other.” That, by definition, is GENOCIDE. The ruling elites are knowingly violating the international rules against genocide; but at the moment, they’ve obviously found a loophole.
Posted by .357 on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 11:47 AM | #
“.357 has it.” (—GW)
Agreed, he sums it up nicely there.
Whites are under deliberate genocidal attack, Lovely. We’re only defending ourselves. We haven’t forgotten our manners but we mean to live, not lie down and perish, and we’ll do what we must to assure that outcome. You’re a Negro, I take it. Whatever the qualities of the Negro race — and that race certainly has its qualities along with its defects as every race does — we don’t wish to change into it, or into the Chinese race or the Mexican mestizo race or the Indian Subcontinental race, or any other race, thank you very much. We want to stay our own race. And that’s what we intend doing. We’re in a tough spot at the moment because we’ve been blind-sided, attacked when we weren’t looking, when we were sleeping in fact. We’ll see how the battle goes now we’re in the process of waking up.
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 01:52 PM | #
Maybe you guys should move to Canada. I went to Quebec (French province) last year and it is all White as far as the eye can see! Only in the big cities do you find other minorities (in Canada). I am sure its the same in the USA that there are many exclusively white communities. The effects living there would have on the IQ is a whole other issue. Maybe one needs other races to evaluate oneself? to feel pride in oneself? to be on guard? to keep tabs on what the enemy is doing? ... ok i am just getting a little creative here. But seriously the White communities i have heard of ... especially in the South are nothing to brag about. Especially these mormon cults. What say you?
Posted by Peter on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 03:28 PM | #
But calling other people “inferior”, and creating negative and derogatory ideas against them is going nowhere.
Then explain why you are here calling whites inferior. You haven’t claimed a neutral agnosticism on the question of whether any group can be considered better than any other (by whatever standard); you’ve come right out and said mixed people are better than whites. If this is “going nowhere,” why do you continue to preach it?
We can no longer afford to live in a world of our own. People from different countries and cultures meet in every day life.
And the result is commonly less than satisfying for both parties. Mixing people together willy nilly isn’t a recipe for “peace”; it’s a recipe for unending frustration and anomie.
Lastly, you’ve clearly never lived around large numbers of blacks. I defy anyone who has to speak glowingly about the experience. I wasn’t in the US a week before I determined conclusively that blacks are simply not a people I am in any way comfortable being around. I sometimes look up demographic details of various US locales and when they show something like 45% black or African-American I marvel at how people can possibly tolerate it. I’m sorry, there’s just no easy way to spin this one; blacks, it seems, will always be the spanner in the multiracial works. Lovely, sweetheart, if you think China or India are going to open their doors to hundreds of millions of Africans… hell, you couldn’t possibly think it; I’d have to conclude you’re lying if you said it.
Posted by silver on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 03:35 PM | #
The thing about this frantic stab at panmixia that gets a bitter laugh out of me is that it is all for naught in the end anyways. We live on a finite sphere with finite resourses; the defining activity of life is the competition over those finite resourses in order to improve our reproductive fitness to ensure genetic continuity. Group competition will not cease to be adaptive. New groups will be forged. What we love at present will have been destroyed for the same damn process to start over again.
Posted by Captainchaos on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 04:08 PM | #
“Guessedworker” The attacker is the author of this thread. I just gave him the taste of his own medicine.lol
But if by calling me the “agressor” you meant I’m so damn irresistible, yeah most peole think so, and thx God for that!
Given the choice, most whites want to preserve their race and culture.
Not in my school where most white girls are more than happy to date black guys.
I would gladly get rid of my white genepool(if given the opportunity) after reading your desperate whining. Hope that makes you a bit happier.the absorption of the white genepool into the “other
“ Fred Scrooby” I am not a Negro, nor am I any of the peoples you mention. I do have everything you dream of! Just a little hint.
I understand that you feel helpless and hopeless when it comes to convince your race to do as you find fit to do.But they don’t follow your ideas, simply because you are so transparently fake. Asking people to follow you for the sake of racial preservation is silly. You need to show surpassing qualities, not plain words. Yet another hint…
I have never ever used the term"inferior",discribing races . I just find unmixed people less attractive and kindda boring. But that is my personal feeling. I’m sure some nice black guys find the white chiks cool, so don’t feel so down after this, please.Then explain why you are here calling whites inferior
Well, sorry folks, but they ARE more attractive than all the rest, and facts talk for itself!and said mixed people are better than whites
The interracial kids are gifted not only with breathtaking looks but also with broader understanding and tolerance. That is the key to world PEACE! The more you whine about it, the more you prove me right!
“Silver” what did you mean by saying
???!!!blacks are simply not a people
Posted by lovely on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 09:23 PM | #
“I would gladly get rid of my white genepool” (—Lovely)
I’d gladly get rid of your white gene pool too, hun. Your variety of white genes the white race doesn’t need or want. Good riddance: the more “white genes” like yours the white race is cleansed of, the better off it’ll be. I strongly encourage you to miscegenate.
(I continue to suspect Lovely is a Negro, by the way.)
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 09:52 PM | #
“Fred Scrooby” You are not in a position to get rid of anything, because everybody seems to love getting rid of what you value. lol
Posted by lovely on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 09:59 PM | #
I for one humbly vote for closing this thread to further comments. It’s fully served its purpose; the subject has been amply explored; and the sort of commentary it continues to elicit from the random low-quality visitor is not such as advances anyone’s understanding. Quite the contrary, in fact.
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Monday, June 23, 2008 at 10:02 PM | #
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Posted by lovely on Sunday, June 22, 2008 at 08:14 PM | #