Filling the empirical gap

Posted by Guessedworker on August 31, 2008, 01:17 PM | #

From Wikipedia, tainted as it is:-

On December 9, 1945, in Germany a day before he was due to return to the United States, Patton was severely injured in a road accident. He and his chief of staff, Major General Hobart R. “Hap” Gay, were on a daytrip to hunt pheasants in the country outside Mannheim. Their 1939 Cadillac Model 75 was driven by PFC Horace Woodring (1926 - 2003). Patton sat in the back seat, on the right with General Gay on his left, as per custom. At 11:45 near Neckarstadt, (Käfertal), a 2½ ton truck driven by Technical Sergeant Robert L. Thompson hit the car containing the general head on. According to reports[citation needed], Thompson appeared out of the haze and made a left-hand turn towards a side road, and the general’s Cadillac smashed into the truck. General Patton was thrown forward and his head struck a metal part of the partition between the front and back seats. Gay and Woodring were uninjured. Paralyzed from the neck down, George Patton died of an embolism on December 21, 1945 at the military hospital in Heidelberg, Germany with his wife present.

So, is the contewntion here, Fred, that Gay and Woodring and Technical Sergeant Robert L. Thompson were all agents of the Forces of Darkness, and actually Patton was despatched in the woods, his body carried to the military hospital in Heidelberg and kept warm for 12 days, until his death was announced?

Sometimes accidents happen, and they are convenient for certain people.

Narrator,

The rubric of the unfettered will is obviously palingenic in character, and unempirical.  But we critique liberalism freely.  My point is that our way out from under it, and from under the Forces of Darkness which shelter within it, is NOT a wholly palingenic construction like NS.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 31, 2008, 01:19 PM | #

See the comments on WW II by “A Finn” in this thread.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 31, 2008, 01:28 PM | #

Good point, GW, of course, but no, I don’t buy the official account as repeated in Wikipedia.  When I was a boy, I heard men who’d served in Patton’s Third Army say it was common knowledge among the ordinary soldiers that he was assassinated on D.C.’s orders because he wanted to go against the Russians, and until disproven, those men’s impression is plenty good enough for me, in view of all that we know was happening and has happened since.  Plenty good enough.

Posted by Guessedworker on August 31, 2008, 05:49 PM | #

Friedrich demonstrates subtlety deficit.

Posted by silver on September 01, 2008, 03:27 AM | #

Cap, what’s with the mindless attack?  Do you really think remaining isolated on the nutjob fringe (make no mistake that is where you are) is doing you any good?  You demonstrated greater intellect and compassion in the foregoing discussion than I would have credited you with (what, with your inexplicable inability to respond rationally (and solely rationally) in our discussion of Israel and your uber-nutjob count-your-chicks plan to “reconquer” the entire US in the event of a partition). You can prefer “gold”, diamonds or mint juleps all you like; a nigger for a grandson-in-law is what you’re on course to get and nearly every thought out of that nervous wreck you pass off as a mind of yours only increases—not decreases, not by a long shot—the odds you’ll arrive at your destination.  But don’t mind me, keep being the walking, talking irrelevancy you evidently prefer.  *Shaking head* A greater pack of wankers, I charge, one will be hard-pressed to find. 

Hey, GW. Seems Rob Lindsay’s singing a different tune about Samoans.  No more “roly-poly Islanders,” it seeems.  Was it a Grand Unified Philosophy of Racialism which did it?  Or the repeitition of unvarnished empricism?  You decide.

Posted by The Monitor on September 01, 2008, 03:37 AM | #

Speaking wholly as an outsider, this is one of the most fascinating discussions Ive seen on a Right Wing web site in years.

Posted by The Monitor on September 01, 2008, 03:41 AM | #

Palingenesis (from Greek palin-, again, + genesis, becoming, birth), is a term used in philosophy, theology, and biology. In philosophy it denotes in its broadest sense the theory (e.g. of the Pythagoreans) that the human soul does not die with the body but is born again in new incarnations. It is thus the equivalent of metempsychosis. The term has a narrower and more specific use in the system of Schopenhauer, who applied it to his doctrine that the will does not die but manifests itself afresh in new individuals. He thus repudiates the primitive metempsychosis doctrine which maintains the reincarnation of the particular soul. The word palingenesis or rather palingenesia may be traced back to the Stoics, who used the term for the continual re-creation of the universe by the Demiurgus (Creator) after its absorption into himself. Similarly Philo spoke of Noah and his sons as leaders of a renovation or rebirth of the earth. Josephus used the term of the national restoration of the Jews, Plutarch of the transmigration of souls, and Cicero of his own return from exile. In the New Testament the properly theological sense of spiritual regeneration is found, though the word itself occurs only twice; and it is used by the church fathers, e.g. for the rite of baptism or for the state of repentance. In modern biology (e.g. Haeckel and Fritz Müller), palingenesis has been used for the exact reproduction of ancestral features by inheritance, as opposed to kenogenesis, in which the inherited characteristics are modified by environment.

The doctrines which are used to comprise the political ideology of Fascism often move to describe it as a Palingenetic Ideology, primarily as a result of the notion that Fascism itself is the rebirth of a state and/or empire in the image of that which came before it - thus, the ancestral political underpinnings. The best examples of this can be found with both Fascist Italy and Germany - Italy looking to establish a palingenetic line between the 20th Century regime under Mussolini as being the second incarnation of the Roman Empire, while Hitler’s ‘Third Reich’ was seen as being the second palingenetic incarnation - beginning first with the Holy Roman Empire (First Reich) then with Bismarck’s Germany (Second Reich) and then resulting in [the Third Reich.]

(EB1911 as filtered through Wikipedia.)

Posted by silver on September 01, 2008, 04:10 AM | #

Monitor, it’s a discussion as fascinating as it is useless and counterproductive.  No wonder “economism” attracts so many; spiritually, much is lost, but considering what it innoculates against, it’s a trade-off many have been willing to make.

Posted by Captainchaos on September 01, 2008, 04:20 AM | #

“You demonstrated greater intellect and compassion in the foregoing discussion than I would have credited you with...” - silver, giving vent to his inner demons

No, no, no.

“...a nigger for a grandson-in-law is what you’re on course to get and nearly every thought out of that nervous wreck you pass off as a mind of yours only increases—not decreases, not by a long shot—the odds you’ll arrive at your destination.” - silver, responding to the better angels of his nature

Now that’s the silver I know and love.

Posted by silver on September 01, 2008, 04:29 AM | #

Now that’s the silver I know and love.

The silver you don’t know and hate, however, bears malice towards none, with charity for all.

Posted by Captainchaos on September 01, 2008, 04:51 AM | #

“The silver you don’t know and hate, however, bears malice towards none, with charity for all.” - silver

Keep spinning your wheels, bro.  Sooner or later you’re bound to get some traction.

Posted by snax on September 01, 2008, 09:36 AM | #

In the meantime

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Posted by Frederick Brown on September 05, 2008, 03:18 AM | #

“Nazi Germany was a [virtual paradise on Earth!]”

Perhaps advertisements of the time would convince you of such, but you have to look further, beyond the pristine banner-emblazoned streets in the colour films of pre-war Nazi Germany, and the choreographed movements of ecstatic civilians within them.

The regime secured the German people’s livelihood, that is for certain. No longer were they hounded by faceless, selfish forces of capitalism, communism or powerful Jewish intrigue. It was a state where the ethnic interests of the German people were put first and foremost. In this way, Germany was clean and healthy, yes, as healthy as could be.

But in other matters? No, I can’t believe it was particularly nice having a gigantic all-encompassing state reaching deep into one’s sphere of living. There was no real economic improvement, only the appearance of such through artificial employment and autarky. The foul effects of the Versailles Treaty had long worn off before Nazi takeover, while any downturn left to be remedied was the result of the worldwide Depression.

Perhaps it was shiny brilliance for most, but you do not convince me. Totalitarian regimes create propaganda. In this sense they are untrustworthy sources of information concerning their own turf, let alone the hate-mongering portrayals of foreign lands soon to POLANDbe annexed.

Polish workers in Britain are reliable, polite, exceptionally hard-working and honorable, not to mention being attractive blonde folk. They are certainly more amiable than the native, dole-queuing chav population (a phenomenon, by the way, which is both genetic and limited to this island, caused by a mismatch of Celtic and Germanic peasantstock that inbred down the line. It has nothing to do with being raised in a certain way). This is a world away from the beastly, swarthy Tatar hordes beyond Silesia that would excitably devour a German whole at short notice.

Given this, I think Guessedworker was right in suggesting Nazi Germany *was* warmongering and impatient in its desire to drive eastward into Soviet territory, and that he does know his history.

I dare say the average Pole is even more Nordic than the average German person, speaking from personal observation of both Poles and genetic maps, and I can’t for the life of me imagine the same Polish people I have seen in the UK gutting a German man, decapitating him and placing the skull in his belly, as was recorded as ‘fact’ in a Nazi propaganda publication, among other gruesome stories.

Of course, Friedrich, it helps to remember that most people here, especially myself and - from what I can tell - Guessedworker, do not lump the entire span of the regime into one odious bundle. Prior to Kristalnacht, and the Polish fiasco, we can separate the state into two forms: the stereotypically beastly, genocidal war-machine of 1939 and beyond, and the rejuvenated, industrious, orderly expanse of 1933 to ‘39.

No white person in their right mind would have wanted the latter to have been ‘stopped’.

But if I was a soldier at the time of the former, I - being a human, woefully limited in my scope - would want to stop something creeping up in the distance that everyone feared might conquer and enslave us all, like what was happening in Poland.

At the time, Guessedworker’s parents were doing the right thing (and it was Nazi Germany which first terror-bombed European cities, and their denizens, into rubble first, including East London; the Western Allies reacted in kind). They were following orders. They weren’t fighting for Jews, or for greed, or for multiculturalism. None of that. They were fighting a foggy, menacing beast on the horizon that ate up all of Europe, and enslaved millions.

So no, they shouldn’t have been shot between the eyes, crazy spikey-helmeted one, any more than Alan Turing should have been shot for working with British and Polish cryptographers.

You - like the regime itself did - accuse civilized, human yet poor Czech and Polish Europeans of unverified demonic activity, yet deny Nazi Germany had a a plan for conquest and slavery and ethnic cleansing in the East (it did). You deny Nazi Germany the title of ‘warmonger’, yet you are warlike in both the literal and behavourial senses of the word.

Kindly get a grip.

(I do, however, want to discuss Anglospheric attitudes towards German culture, British parochiality, British blunders during WW II [fucking White Paper of 1939!! What did they put in their tea??!] and how dangerous it can be to pass by the importance of German culture, but some other day.)

Posted by Lurker on September 05, 2008, 05:08 AM | #

Fred - our lumpen chav population is such a recent development that I feel its must be partly cultural/environmental. I cant ascribe just to genes.

Posted by Frederick Brown on September 07, 2008, 12:31 AM | #

Lurker:

Can’t ascribe it to genes.

Hmm.

Can’t ascribe IT to genes.

How about that.

Two pictures of British people, courtesy of imageshack.

...and…

Look at the shape of their skulls.

The recent explosion of cash among the poorer denizens, combined with the softening of policing, not to mention the slow decline of the well-mannered Germanic element, have allowed this ever present element to thrive.

There is something uniquely, eerily ill about the indigenous foundation on which the German element sits upon in Britain.

Posted by Lurker on September 07, 2008, 12:47 AM | #

So rise of the lumpen chavetariat is not just the effect of liberal policies regarding crime and education. Its also those coupled with various dysgenic policies.

Posted by Frederick Brown on September 07, 2008, 03:40 AM | #

Polish immigrants flying over here to work come from a country that, thanks to being distant and backward because of its geographical location and recent Soviet rule, are extremely hard working and friendly. Poland’s murder rate is around that of Wales’.

Britain, unlike Poland, is supposed to be one of the three major European powers, along with France and Germany. It is the second richest. And yet you get the most spiritless, monstrous, parochial atavist excuses for humans, let alone whites, among the chav layer. I say ‘layer’, because I fear that the English are built upon a base that can all too easily become too base. Victims of harassment are deemed as being ‘silly pricks’, ‘daft cunts’, ‘airy fairy’, ‘high in the clouds’, ‘fukin greebos’ and other deplorable character traits that cannot be tolerated by their hyper-utilitarian ogrish standards. Can you understand the relevance of this? Britain is thought of as being oddly predisposed to mercantile, pragmatic anti-metaphysical modes of life and labour, and for being arrogant and directionless. This is why there are so many featureless brick terraces built everywhere. You rarely get this in the continent.

Chavs are this element in its purest, concentrated, ghastly form, devoid of any foresight or inclination to beauty.

This is not to say you can get degenerate Germans, basically being living metaphors for Teutonic vice, such as that Austrian bloke who imprisoned an entire family in his house.

But I fear the small chav that lives inside every Englishman like an uncouth gold-chain wearing dead foetus, no matter how hidden away or shriveled, has cumulatively caused a lot of trouble for this world.

Has anyone stopped to wonder why Britain always turns its back away from the continent toward the US, and is now bullying the uneasy EU into conforming with the US-Israeli position on the Russo-Gerogian conflict?

What people on this blog need to do is: change perspectives for a bit. View these crises not simply from the axis of the Anglosphere but from continent. Trust me, the differences are enormous and essential. The focal point for European Man’s survival relentlessly drifts Eastward across the Channel, toward a Russo-German axis, one that opposes United States - and thus British - power as it stands.

Wean Britain off from America. Reattach it to Europe. Allow for pride and humility, over heritage and reflection on its place among its cultured brothers respectively. Then, take an affirmative stance against America - hopefully while honorable white Americans take a stance against America too.

Why couldn’t Mosley win…

Posted by Lurker on September 07, 2008, 04:35 AM | #

“But I fear the small chav that lives inside every Englishman like an uncouth gold-chain wearing dead foetus”

Grim, though amusing, thought. I like to think it doesnt reside in every Englishman.

Sometimes the crude empirical response is refreshing - “I refute it thus!” That was Dr Johnson?

But its true, Ive rarely seen the worst excesses of chavdom outside the UK. The lumpen youths shambling around the streets seem almost non-existent in mainland Europe.

The particular horror I notice now is the adoption of twatois by the lumpen boys - thankfully this seems confined to London & SE England. Its meant to sound like a sort of black patois/accent. Viz comic coined the term.

*Historical note* Viz were also the first publication, that Im aware of, to use the term ‘vibrant’ in its current ironic sense. This was way back in the ‘90s.

Posted by Guessedworker on September 07, 2008, 09:42 AM | #

Frederick Brown,

The geopolitics aside, that’s a very uncharitable view.  It is true that the chav tendency is historically real, having appeared in the past in more noble forms, such as the laddish piracy of the Elizabethan privateers.  But the degredation of today’s chav is in no ways unconnected to the effects of social liberalism, economism, the immigration-led smashing of traditional community, and, especially, culture war.

The phenomenon itself has it founding in the schismatic effects of the Norman Conquest, and takes its rude energy from the moral illegitimacy of the invaders.  Only in Elizabeth’s time was it finally possible for ordinary English men and women to love the monarch without a little fear - and perhaps then only because the schism had been put at one remove, into the realm of faith.

As regards the difference between this “vibrant”, awkward-squad Englishness and that lot over the Channel, you might recall that the Germans who came here had, to a man, turned their backs on their insufferable tribal competitors.  Two fingers has always been part of the Saxon code.

Which reminds me, before you grow too respectful of our continental brothers, you might like to reflect on the fact that virtually all the familiar expletives in our tongue are Dutch in origin.  There are less than angelic elements in the continental European populations, too.

As for the geopolitical element in your remarks, no, I don’t see us grasping for Marriane’s petticoat.  Whacking French heads together is far too ingrained.  Or perhaps I am being a chav as well.

Posted by Frederick Brown on September 07, 2008, 05:52 PM | #

It is true that the chav tendency is historically real, having appeared in the past in more noble forms, such as the laddish piracy of the Elizabethan privateers.  But the degredation of today’s chav is in no ways unconnected to the effects of social liberalism, economism, the immigration-led smashing of traditional community, and, especially, culture war.

The phenomenon itself has it founding in the schismatic effects of the Norman Conquest, and takes its rude energy from the moral illegitimacy of the invaders.  Only in Elizabeth’s time was it finally possible for ordinary English men and women to love the monarch without a little fear - and perhaps then only because the schism had been put at one remove, into the realm of faith.

As regards the difference between this “vibrant”, awkward-squad Englishness and that lot over the Channel, you might recall that the Germans who came here had, to a man, turned their backs on their insufferable tribal competitors.  Two fingers has always been part of the Saxon code.

o_O

Look at their heads. It’s genetic as can be. In older times these people may have been forced to remain small in number and obscure.

I am not saying English people are by nature evil or flawed. Absolutely not. True Anglo-Saxon Englishmen are no more criminally prone than the German or Swede, and the unique contributions of England come from this unique mixture of Brythonic and Germanic. The ‘inner chav’ poses no problems at all, and is in fact beneficial, if well hidden and small.

Except I don’t think the invading Saxons and Normans were predisposed to loutishness, shallow comedy, mistaking popular for high art, lack of stylishness and frequenting bingo halls. You certainly aren’t, nor am I.

Even if I take your word for the Dutch swearword exchange, modern Dutchmen and women do not suffer from the above problems.

Or perhaps I am being a chav as well.

Absolutely not!

As for the geopolitical element in your remarks, no, I don’t see us grasping for Marriane’s petticoat.

I was thinking further along the road to Spikey-helmet Land.

Seriously sir. Britain is viewed as being woefully out of touch with the continent. Its tourists have a reputation of being the worst in the world in Europe.

If we don’t put ourselves in their shoes - or clogs, whatever - then we screw up the world. Simple as.

This is what Mosley had talked of with his ‘Europe a nation’ slogan.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 07, 2008, 06:54 PM | #

“Look at their heads. It’s genetic as can be.” (—Frederick Brown just above)

Notice their hand gestures in that photo:  they’re doing their best imitations of the Negro hand gestures seen on the rap videos the U.S. Jews are sending across the ocean to brainwash them with, and your homegrown British Jews, instead of throwing them in the garbage, are broadcasting.

“Seriously sir. Britain is viewed as being woefully out of touch with the continent. Its tourists have a reputation of being the worst in the world in Europe.”

That’s because the Brits, being English-speakers, have been Kwamerikwanized way more than the non-English-speaking continent.

Give credit and lay blame where credit and blame are due, Frederick.  Don’t leave the United States of Kwamerikosher out of the equation.

Posted by Eyedealizt on July 07, 2009, 02:08 AM | #

# Anti-modern reaction.

* Racial science

# Pan-Germanism.

# die Herrenrasse

# Nordisch theory.

# Aryan mysticism, occultism, paganism and runism.

# German youth movement (Wandervogel, Jungenschaft, Bündische Jugend, etc)

It’s the same underpinnings of non-reality, of course.  Even in the 19th Century, waving the question “what is true” over these ideas would have revealed their religiosity.

But all of that is true. All of it is real.

Cutting edge racial science of the day was used by the Third Reich anyway, I don’t see how relying on nothing but that would lead anywhere.

Those with the coolest helmets tend to have the moral highground, this is what life has taught me.

Posted by PF on January 26, 2010, 08:06 PM | #

I LOLed at this thread so many times.

Captain Chaos advising someone purchase a “Berghof play set” with Blondi doll included.

GW replying to Narrator:

For you, now, to claim that Germany’s behaviour to its neighbours to the east is excusable on the basis of “The Rule of Mayhem” is profoundly un-European.

Oh “The Rule of Mayhem”! LOL!