Focal Point Photos

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 05, 2005, 06:48 PM | #

Rioting Spreads From Paris Across France

In a particularly malevolent turn, youths in the eastern Paris suburb of Meaux prevented paramedics from evacuating a sick person from a housing project, pelting rescuers with rocks and torching the awaiting ambulance, an Interior Ministry official said.

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I still contend the post war democratic leadership of Europe has done MORE permanent damage than Hitler or Mussolini.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 05, 2005, 06:55 PM | #

Yahoo Slideshow

That particular Black appears to be one of the fabled blue gums. Or perhaps it is just the cast of his jacket, but he sure looks like a blue gum.

Posted by Bill on November 05, 2005, 07:14 PM | #

What you just said is rediculous.  It was Hitler and Moussolini that CAUSED it in the first place… Would the ‘guest worker’ program even be needed if the generation of young men in the 1940s was not obliterated.  By wantonly sending young men to their deaths, by destroying virtually every major european city, by racially cleansing 11 million innocent lives, they destroyed the western civilization that we glorify so much.  They have done far more damage than any muslim immigration can.  This mass flow of migrants is nothing but a ramification of the fascism and indiscriminant violence of the 1940s.  This problem was introduced by westernern imperialism (most of the immigrants are from former colonies) and consequent world war which drained the manpower pool.

I’m a full bred european of Flemish descent.  I love Europe.  I love walking down the quaint old towns in the country side with their classic architechture with the lovely people who, from nation to nation, have a distinct look and language.  I by no means condone the mass influx of muslims into (what i view to be) my homeland.  You just have to understand, ultimately, where it came from.

Posted by Andrew on November 05, 2005, 07:19 PM | #

Paris once more under siege, do we now send in the troops and bomb strategic targets, dare I mention what targets?
Do we free Europe from the Oppression once more, or has their population become too complacent and blinded by the philosophy of existentialism.
Another question: is it worth saving? If the locals can not save them selves, can anyone save them?
Hitler is laughing him self to death again Along with Stalin and Lenin, perhaps Pol Pot and a few others having a quite giggle also in Utopia.
I bet that is where Multiculturalism works and not the real world of the living.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 05, 2005, 07:22 PM | #

Bill:

It takes “two to tango” Mr. Bill. Roosevelt and Churchill are just as responsible for the war in Europe as Hitler.

Roosevelt and Churchill both drove Europe into ashes - along with Hitler. In fact the American and British air forces did a mighty good job of turning Europe into rubble and killing countless innocents.

And as far as the racial question goes, it was the post war leadership that polluted Europe with Muslims and Africans - not Hitler and Mussolini.

Posted by friedrich braun on November 05, 2005, 07:41 PM | #

Our Flemish friend seems to forget that it was the West that declared war on the West and not vice versa. There wouldn’t have been any blood-letting in Western Europe if the British and their French hapless sidekicks didn’t feel the urge to play self-appointed arbiters of Germany’s Eastern borders. Hitler was forced to move West when the West declared war on Germany. So please, stop regurgitating the old Semitically correct party-line we’ve been hearing for the last 60 years.

You want to point fingers? Point your finger at the the British-US-Judea alliance.

If Germany had won the war, there wouldn’t be an immigration problem in Germany or elsewhere in Europe. There wouldn’t have been a Cold War either, since without the help of the US and the British Empire Bolshevik Russia wouldn’t have survived the Wehrmacht onslaught.

I find that the West knows deep down who’s responsible for the current mess, but is afraid to state the obvious, i.e. that it was the West’s stupid meddling and choices of the 30s and 40s that are in large measure behind the racial problem of Western Europe today. So the West blames it all on Hitler. A convenient target.

(You know, it rained today in my neck of the woods this morning...that must’ve also been Hitler’s fault.)

Posted by friedrich braun on November 05, 2005, 07:43 PM | #

“Our Flemish friend seems to forget that it was the West that declared war on the West and not vice versa.”

the above should read “on Germany”, obviously.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 05, 2005, 07:50 PM | #

Let’s just say that, regardless of Hitler’s monstrous rule, the British Empire made a colossal blunder in declaring war on Nazi Germany in order to honour the impossible promise of protecting Poland’s sovereignty (which for some reason apparently didn’t need to be protected from Stalin - only Hitler!). We should have let Hitler and Stalin duke it out in the East, and stayed completely neutral.

Posted by Phil on November 05, 2005, 08:16 PM | #

Posting pictures of Hitler will almost certainly win us a whole new generation of converts lining up at our doorsteps to join the cause.

In fact, that probably explains the phenomenal success of American so-called “white natonalism” for the last five decades in America.

I was going to remain silent but then I thought I might as well open my mouth at the risk of being showered with abuse by the usual suspects.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 05, 2005, 08:22 PM | #

“In a particularly malevolent turn, youths in the eastern Paris suburb of Meaux prevented paramedics from evacuating a sick person from a housing project, pelting rescuers with rocks and torching the awaiting ambulance, an Interior Ministry official said.” (—Geoff Beck)

Rioters doing that should be cut down right away with large-calibre live ammunition for massed rioters and with police sharpshooters for isolated snipers on rooftops or perched at the windows of buildings and so forth.  The same applies to when Negroes riot in U.S. cities:  if all they do is riot, smashing store windows and overturning cars, doing that human-wave surging-and-pushing against police lines, and so on, try to stick with fire hoses, pepper spray, taser guns, police truncheons, mass arrests, rubber bullets and the like but the minute they start shooting, especially shooting at ambulances, fire engines, rescue workers, and policemen, immediately start methodically mowing them down using machine guns and picking off the snipers with sharpshooters absolutely without hesitation, questions, second thoughts, or regrets (hey you never know, you might even get lucky—some of their white, pro-riot, anti-white-race apologists might be accidentally standing in the line of fire ...).

“Hitler is laughing himself to death” (—Andrew)

Truer words were never written!

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 05, 2005, 08:25 PM | #

I have to agree with Phil’s comment above my last one, by the way.  (I haven’t clicked on the pictures, so don’t know what they show—but ... I don’t see the point, with all due respect to Geoff ...)

Posted by AD on November 05, 2005, 08:29 PM | #

Nice pics(especially the scenery), but things like this might give MR labels it can’t shake off.

Posted by Phil on November 05, 2005, 08:36 PM | #

Nice pics(especially the scenery), but things like this might give MR labels it can’t shake off

I have had very serious reservations about some of these things and David (Guessedworker) is well aware of them. But I haven’t voiced them openly for the sake of maintaining, at the very least, a facade of a consensus of some description.

Unfortunately, keeping my opinions to myself (and I could say the same for some of our other bloggers who feel the same way) allows reckless and amateurish behaviour to wreck whatever chance we may have of actually winning people to our side.

Unfortunately, good sense seems to be lacking in these matters from time to time - which I find deeply regrettable.

I once said to GW in private that what will wreck the “movement” is not some outside force but the “movement” itself. Self-destructiveness appears to be one of its defining characteristics. A fact which appears to be re-inforced with every such post.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 05, 2005, 08:37 PM | #

“things like this might give MR labels it can’t shake off.” (—AD)

And all for no gain.  I respectfully ask, what’s the point?

Posted by AD on November 05, 2005, 08:51 PM | #

I’m not really one to talk i suppose. One mans Hitler is another mans Spengler, one man’s Mussolini is another mans Evola. I openly praise the latter of the two cases on here, which could be considered crossing the line to some.

Posted by Phil on November 05, 2005, 09:03 PM | #

The saddest part about posts like these is that they come at a time when the blog’s traffic is rocketing upwards - at a time when we are beginning to get almost 8,000 hits daily (a significant jump in traffic).

I would imagine that there are large numbers of people visiting us for the first time now. So it is effectively a time when we can hope to convert a fair number of newcomers to our point of view which I must say is the primary objective of this website - to serve as a bridge between the “innocent” mainline conservatives (who feel some degree of discontent) and the “converted”.

Needless to say, if we continue to put up posts like these we shall end up as another dead-end venture (which most “White Nationalist” websites with the possible exception of American Renaissance have done).

I should also say this: if some of us here wish to engage in rhetoric that is more extreme or wish to make arguments that are more extreme (because they think the MR position is too “soft"), there are scores of Far-Right websites on the internet where this can be done.

I do not believe, however, that doing this here advances anyone’s interests except the interests of our political opponents.

Posted by Andrew on November 05, 2005, 09:08 PM | #

Most people would not be that simple with the Hitler Ideology, plainly JR has dismembered the misnomer of Hitler’s appeal, but only to some similar pathological minds.
The concept is intriguing when you apply Luddite, Vegan, Greenie, as well as Met amphetamines, That is Hitler, sounds like some of the Parliamentary Reps around the world to me, I for one can not display footage of SS on parade in full light of Propaganda on how you can destroy Human life, but when a German child threw rocks at a cat, then the SS saw that out side the boundaries of tolerable behavior, That says more of a Psychopathic inferences than real ethical concepts. That is the Hitler story and nothing to Worship, only despise.

Posted by WJG on November 05, 2005, 09:46 PM | #

The more evidence I see about the treachery of international jewry against the White Christian West (and especially Germany) the more sympathy I have for National Socialism in Germany.  It seems many here are less interested in any justification the Nazis had in their actions than in wanting to stay ‘respectable’ and to continue to grow this movement.  If this movement ends up growing through deceit and triangulation it will become just as contemptible as jewry.

Our primary enemy knows and has targeted us even as most of us seem unable to confront them.

Posted by AD on November 05, 2005, 09:52 PM | #

That is the Hitler story -Andrew

Those concepts, ie, blood and soil(which you refer to as ‘greenie’) and the humane treatment of animals were around a long time before Hitler. He adopted them in opposition to the rootless communist industrial model and the marxist philosophy of total dominion over the animals to ease the workload of the proletariat, which they adopted in opposition to the monarchial tradition of humane treatment.

There is the rational middle ground, but being ‘anti-green’ or ‘anti-animal’ for the sake of it is nothing but cultural bolshevism. Those who have a religious need to slit the throats of animals so they bleed to death before they eat them belong in the middle east, not the west.

Posted by Phil on November 05, 2005, 09:54 PM | #

It seems many here are less interested in any justification the Nazis had in their actions than in wanting to stay ‘respectable’ and to continue to grow this movement.

Far-Rightsists in the US have been singing paens to Hitler for fifty years now. Where has this gotten them?

I suppose living in an ideological ghetto has its own charms - charms which outweigh the harm suffered by all by the very destruction of the West itself (something we are trying to prevent).

And we won’t succeed if we do not convert large numbers of people to our point of view. And that is an exercise which becomes pretty fruitless if 90 percent of the people who come here (potential converts) run away at the sight of Nazi imagery.

It is sad that 60 years of utter failure has taught people nothing. The desire to keep repeating the same mistakes persists. Perhaps the West is destined to die out - with foolishness and amateurish behaviour on the part of its supposed advocates playing a significant role in that regard.

Posted by friedrich braun on November 05, 2005, 10:00 PM | #

It seems many here are less interested in any justification the Nazis had in their actions than in wanting to stay ‘respectable’ and to continue to grow this movement.

Any pleading on behalf of your people and their genetic interests will earn you the “Nazi” label today. You cannot avoid it no matter how fast you run away from any references to the Third Reich.

Posted by Phil on November 05, 2005, 10:04 PM | #

On the accusation of wanting to stay “respectable”, speaking for myself, I write under an assumed name. Very few people actually know who I am in “real” (as opposed to virtual) life. What should I care about “respectability” when society doesn’t even know who I am? The same could be said for other bloggers here that do not write in their own name.

Also, one doesn’t need to be a Nazi to lose respectability in society. This comment shows the utter obtuseness of some people in the “movement” - advocating white survival alone is sufficient to destroy all “respectability” in society these days. You don’t have to wear a swastika in public to lose respectability. 

“Respectability” is a non-point. The only proper concern for this venture should be whether it is successful - whether it achieves what it set out to achieve. If it cannot do that, all else is irrelevant. Open advocacy of Nazism destroys every chance of success and it is therefore a self-defeating tactic (I find Nazism abhorrent personally but I wouldn’t get into that for the moment).

I find it amazing that people fail to understand such a simple concept.

Posted by Mark Richardson on November 05, 2005, 10:09 PM | #

I think we sometimes forget that there has never been anyone to give political leadership to discontented rank and file conservatives.

The little nationalist groups in the past have never gone for the wider audience; they’ve tended to sink into conspiracy theory type politics, or play WWII dress ups, or else become the caricatured “hate” groups that the liberal establishment would like them to be.

I can’t help but feel that these groups weren’t serious enough. They were happy to sideline themselves and play politics as tiny sectarian movements.

It’s not what I would want for MR, particularly as this site has made an important breakthrough in terms of readership.

Posted by friedrich braun on November 05, 2005, 10:12 PM | #

Far-Rightsists in the US have been singing paens to Hitler for fifty years now. Where has this gotten them?

BS. Who would that be? All Geoff did was post a pictoral collection as a historical curioso. Where did he praise Hitler or sing paens to him?

Paleos, a far more significant contingent on the American scene than your phantasmagoric “American Nazis”, have never sung paens to Hitler; on the contrary, they do what they can to surpass Jewish liberals in the amount of abuse they can heap on them wicked rAYcist “Nazis.” Show me ONE paleo victory in the last 60 years.

Posted by Andrew on November 05, 2005, 10:14 PM | #

In a lot of Ways AD, that is the point, that dreadful name and critter Karl Marx and associates raise their ugly agendas again, dressed in women’s uniforms to look sexy, but when the clothes are off, you go running for the bucket.
All and sundry are anti protestation and are anti-theistic in application and a theological concept for: and should remain with the ever dead ideals, We all aspire for the one goal, our Ideals go astray a little, which is a good launching pad for the new Intellectual thought and ideals to gain momentum once more, The real Intellects: not the Agitprop.
Phil and GW are right, this road has to and will lead somewhere, everyone is sick of the road to nowhere we have all been forced to take. Time to reconstruct a new and positive direction or we “Anglo” will all be lost for ever in the abyss.

Posted by Phil on November 05, 2005, 10:21 PM | #

Friedrich Braun,

I am sure you have heard of the American Nazi Party, George Lincoln Rockwell, William Pierce, David Duke - to name a few. Actually, much of the Far Right in America has been characterised by an affection for Hitler. It is a very long list. Let us not get into that here.

I fail to understand your motivation. There are hundreds of little websites all over the internet that dedicate themselves to advocacy (or defence) of Nazi Germany. What prevents you from going there?

Speaking for myself, I have no desire to join in (and the majority of the bloggers here do not either). Actually if you ask Geoff and ask him to choose between two things: (1) setting the record straight on Hitler; or (2) saving the West, he would choose the latter.

I do believe that Historians must work to expose the falsities of “mainstream” history - and it is a worthy exercise in its own right. But we have a movement to build and historians have history to rectify. For us to try to do both damages both - as Nick Griffin said in his speech in New Orleans. I suppose you didn’t listen to it, though I have linked to it on several occasions. do listen to it.

I am afraid nothing I say here will have much effect on you. You are fairly set in your ways. May I say that most of us are also fairly set in our ways too. If you dislike the supposedly “soft” approach, you have lots of other alternatives available.

Posted by Mark Richardson on November 05, 2005, 10:22 PM | #

OK Friedrich.

I was involved with a group called Australians Against Further Immigration in the 1980s and 90s.

We did our best to appeal to a mainstream audience - and we had some success (over 20% of the vote in some electorates).

The party grew nationally and eventually merged into the One Nation party, which itself took over 1 million votes in a national election.

The result? The political class decided to cut back on immigration for over a decade (it’s rising again now).

The One Nation movement fell eventually because of serious problems in its leadership.

Still, do you really believe we would have gotten as far as we did if we’d gone for the whole nazi thing?

Posted by Phil on November 05, 2005, 10:24 PM | #

All Geoff did was post a pictoral collection as a historical curioso. Where did he praise Hitler or sing paens to him?

You must certainly love the wonderful chaps at the SPLC who must get a good laugh and some wicked satisfaction at seeing another “race realist” website post pictures of Hitler.

I never said Geoff sang paens to Hitler. Do not distort what I said.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 05, 2005, 10:31 PM | #

Hello, I’m back:

Good grief, they are only pictures!

Posted by Phil on November 05, 2005, 10:34 PM | #

Geoff,

Yes they are. I am not sure what they achieve though?

Posted by AD on November 05, 2005, 10:39 PM | #

Time to reconstruct a new and positive direction or we “Anglo” will all be lost for ever in the abyss.

I see MR as the closest thing the English speaking world has to the(beginnings of) an equivalent to the continental new-right. Something that transcends old labels/ divisions and is relatively untouchable from old enemies.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 05, 2005, 10:39 PM | #

Phil,

I’m spreading Nazi propaganda.

Good grief, you act like an old mother hen.

Posted by Matra on November 05, 2005, 10:43 PM | #

It’s pretty pathetic that so many people think you need to be a Nazi to want to preserve Western civilisation! Should we all hate Poles as well?

Also, I don’t understand why so many neo-Nazis just assume that anyone suspicious of Jewish influence and opposed to non-white immigration must be closet Nazis. It’s like assuming that anyone who supports a welfare state must be a Stalinist deep down. Westerners had problems with alien elements long before Hitler came along. Trying to remain respectable has nothing to do with rejecting the Nazi label.

Posted by friedrich braun on November 05, 2005, 10:43 PM | #

I am sure you have heard of the American Nazi Party, George Lincoln Rockwell, William Pierce, David Duke - to name a few. Actually, much of the Far Right in America has been characterised by an affection for Hitler. It is a very long list. Let us not get into that here.

Handful of cartoonish eccentrics and paid provocateurs - except for Duke, and he never advocated NS - you apparently confuse attempts at being objective, setting the record straigh, and refusing to blame Hitler for everything under the sun with “advocacy”.

It’s not “a very long list” at all by the way. You mistake media exposure for numbers.

The Flemish guy says Hitler is responsible for Belgium having accepted millions of Arabs, I say nonsense. Belgians should take responsibility for their own mess. Hitler didn’t force anyone to take in Third Worlders. Am I “advocating” for Hitler?

You point to them “nazis”...I say show me one paleo victory in the last 60 years.

I fail to understand your motivation.There are hundreds of little websites all over the internet that dedicate themselves to advocacy (or defence) of Nazi Germany. What prevents you from going there?

What prevents you from joining a knitting circle?

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 05, 2005, 10:45 PM | #

I’m going to a wedding reception now…

you all will have to save your haughty outrage until later.

We’ll be dancing around swastikas on the floor and singing the horst wessel song.

LOL!

Posted by Phil on November 05, 2005, 10:46 PM | #

Geoff,

If I do it, it is out of concern at the effect it has on our readership and the ability of this blog to continue to “convert” people who are disillusioned but have not crossed over to our point of view yet.

Let me also say that there are bloggers on the web who would latch onto an opportunity to defame us. All I would say is that we must exercise discretion in these matters. Giving ammunition to our enemies (even if the things we say are not said with any pro-Nazi intent (which I didn’t say was the case - please do not misunderstand me)), only harms us in various ways.

The political world has its pitfalls. We are in the realm of trying to win political battles. we must never lose sight if that fact.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 05, 2005, 10:51 PM | #

Defame, get real. The Left will hate us just for breathing. Secondly, I am not a spokemen for any party. Third, if someone is so easily misled and offended - to hell with them.

Posted by Phil on November 05, 2005, 10:51 PM | #

What prevents you from joining a knitting circle?

What prevents me is that I did not subscribe to an interest in knitting at any time (though correct me if I am mistaken - and with some evidence please).

You on the other hand, have shown an interest (to put it very mildly) in defending Nazi Germany. So it is not entirely illegitmate for me to suggest that you should perhaps choose a forum more conducive to your point of interest.

Posted by Phil on November 05, 2005, 10:54 PM | #

We’ll be dancing around swastikas on the floor and singing the horst wessel song.

LOL!

I have done my bit in getting the point across. Taking it onboard is up to you now.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 05, 2005, 10:56 PM | #

Phil,

> In fact, that probably explains the phenomenal success of American so-called “white natonalism” for the last five decades in America.

As oppossed to respectable conservatism.... LOL

Posted by Phil on November 05, 2005, 10:59 PM | #

I have dealt with the “respectability” argument above and won’t repeat it.

Posted by Andrew on November 05, 2005, 11:08 PM | #

We know that Geoff, but there is a great part of the population that are Programmed to believe in the falsehood , like a virus program through their thoughts, some will de- virus their brain’s but on a level as not to instigate shock therapy.
The Left are loony tunes anyway Guy forks and Thunder crackers for their orofys. The rest can be saved from a certain demise with help. We hope.
.hay.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 05, 2005, 11:26 PM | #

“everyone is sick of the road to nowhere we have all been forced to take.” (—Andrew)

Amen.  We want a different road.  We demand one.

Posted by friedrich braun on November 05, 2005, 11:58 PM | #

You on the other hand, have shown an interest (to put it very mildly) in defending Nazi Germany.

stupid bla bla bla

I don’t think Hitler is responsible for the fact that France and Belgium have moronically taken in millions of Arabs and Africans. Ergo, I must be “defending” Hitler.

So it is not entirely illegitmate for me to suggest that you should perhaps choose a forum more conducive to your point of interest.

You don’t tell me where post, little friend.

Again, if enthusiastically heaping abuse on them “Nazis”, running away from any hint of racialism, and distancing yourself from so-called nativist sentiments was the key to success paleos would be in charge right now. Obviously it hasn’t done them a lot of good. Show me a paleo victory in the last 60 years.

Posted by James Bowery on November 06, 2005, 01:38 AM | #

The irony of this is that the allies led Germany in the practice of eugenics and fought WW II with a segregated army.  Virtually none of the soldiers who volunteered to fight Gemany, such as my father, did so for the reasons the Holocaustians claim.  It was purely and simply to fight Germany as Germany has been fought in WW I.  The hijacking, by Holocaustianity, of the WW II victory against Germany is a historic perversion of the first degree.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 06, 2005, 01:46 AM | #

What a tempest in a teapot.

Good lord.

Posted by Martin Hutchinson on November 06, 2005, 01:50 AM | #

Friedrich, if you’d been in Britain in 1974-79 you’d have regarded Thatcher as a great victory, trust me.

James, I agree, except for your claim that Allied armies were segregated—the US one was but the British one wasn’t.

As Hitler recedes into history, the PC will cement into place their myth that he was uniquely evil and unacceptable, and a substantial percentage of European youth will continue to download the Horst Wessel Lied and think the uniforms, music and culture were uniquely cool.

Hitlerian art and design, like Napoleonic art and design, were very high quality, certainly far better than the Bauhaus and modernist dreck that infested the West for the next half century (it’s getting better now, thank goodness.)

I absolutely agree with and have repeatedly said Phil’s overall point about credibility.  At the same time, I think ranting against Jewish influence is far more damaging in that respect than simply admiring some old photos of the Fuehrer. Violent and irrational anti-semitism marginalises us far more completely than a little Nazi kitsch.

Geoff, Friedrich et al. will now all jump up and down excitedly denouncing me. There isn’t a consensus; it was probably unrealistic to expect to create one, but the lack of one will marginalise MR, which is a pity.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 06, 2005, 01:59 AM | #

> Geoff, Friedrich et al. will now all jump up and down excitedly denouncing me

Old boy, I don’t denounce you for your opinions, I only point out the falsehoods and inaccuracies of what you say.

If any “damage” is done it is done by spreading falsehoods and whispering slanders, which you have done many times.

You and Phil really came off like a bunch of mothers.

Posted by Martin Hutchinson on November 06, 2005, 02:13 AM | #

Geoff, how do you whisper on a blog? Just curious.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 06, 2005, 02:18 AM | #

Whisper:… Anti-Semite… Protocols believer…

Not saying directly, but suggesting. Its called slandering Martin, and you do a lot of it.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 06, 2005, 02:26 AM | #

“ranting against Jewish influence” (—Martin)

I’m broadly with Phil on this particular thread but I’ll just say the obvious, that not all pointing-out of harmful Jewish influence is “ranting” any more than is all pointing out of helpful Jewish influence.  Jews have good and bad influences, some of the good ones extremely good, some of the bad ones extremely bad.  Citing, for example, their highly-organized forty-year role in the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act as an instance of the latter isn’t “ranting.” Martin probably views it as such, and likewise my own characterization of that Act as “genocidal,” and likewise, as well, my frequent references to “race-replacement,” but didn’t he just yesterday or so, in another thread during an exchange with GW, come out and say essentially he had little feeling of racial solidarity with the races traditionally making up Britain?  He seems oriented more toward an identification with class, in relative disregard of (what I and others see as) race’s importance.  That difference between him and me would by itself suffice to make him view characterizations of mine as “ranting” because he sees them as superfluous and trivial, ones I (who view race preservation as very important) see as anything but.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 06, 2005, 02:37 AM | #

For the record, I have no identification with class whatsoever:  none (which is partly just an American thing, so OK, let’s hear all the yawwnnns—but not entirely:  there are plenty of class snobs here, so don’t prolong those yawns too much, guys ...).  I identify solely with race.  I also cannot stand class-snobs and was so happy, as a teenager on reading Lord Chesterfield’s letters to his son, to find that aristocrat not only felt exactly the same way—had no patience at all for class-snobs among his peers, the aristocracy—but endeavored to instill the same attitude in his son.

(And no, I’m not insinuating Martin’s a snob—am talking solely about myself.)

Posted by Martin Hutchinson on November 06, 2005, 02:48 AM | #

Fred, I’ve said on another thread that I regard race replacement as a genuine demographic danger, although I don’t regard other races as hostile per se. I also remain in my opinion that violently expressed anti-Semitism is more of a danger to this blog’s influence with third parties than modest amounts of Nazi kitsch, particularly as there’s more of it, and expressed in a more extreme fashion.

The 1965 Immigration Act was a bad piece of legislation, but it was not “genocidal.” However misguided the Act’s authors they did not intend genocide, nor has it yet caused genocide—it can not be held entirely responsible for the flood of ILLEGAL immigration, for example.

Trying to stick to the scientific method of making statements for which there is a demonstrably solid factual basis would seem a good idea if others are to be convinced.

Geoff, by starting this thread you have demonstrated neither anti-Semitism nor Protocols belief, but simply a liking for Nazi kitsch, a taste shared by millions of others, most of whom have no significant Nazi-phile political views.

Posted by Martin Hutchinson on November 06, 2005, 02:55 AM | #

Fred, of course I’m a snob, and proud of it.  Anti-snobbery is like anti-racism, it is a tool of the intellectually dishonest Left.

For at least the last 150 years I’m desceded from various bits of the traditional races of the British isles, though I identify much more strongly with those bits from whom I’m descended (Gloucestershire farmers, Yorkshire blacksmiths, skilled mill-workers, art dealers and petty squires, Midlands Gunnery officers, Dudley and Cheltenham intellectually pretentious bureaucrats) than with the bits with whom I have no connection (Cockneys, Glaswegians, Geordies, Socialists).

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 06, 2005, 03:02 AM | #

Martin,

> Geoff, by starting this thread you have demonstrated neither anti-Semitism nor Protocols belief, but simply a liking for Nazi kitsch, a taste shared by

That again is a lie and a mischaraterization.

The photos are artifacts of history, that is why I posted them. If they were unseen photos of Bismarck, Truman, Eden, Clemenceau I would have also posted them.

Again, you lie and distort.

You know nothing of my motivation. You refuse to read or consider any sources other than the ones you approve.  Really you are big fat phoney!

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 06, 2005, 03:07 AM | #

Not to belabor this further, but I dashed off my comment too fast where I said, somewhere above, that “I identify solely with race”:  not strictly true, as might be imagined (while it is strictly true that I don’t identify whatsoever with class).  I also identify with religion, with nationality-apart-from-racial-considerations, and other things.  But that’s a whole topic in itself, which I won’t get into—mercifully for this thread’s readers, I’m sure.

Martin, thanks for your reply.  Let me say this:  I think Geoff ought to tone it down sometimes.  His comments make me wince more, and more often, than those of any other blogger here.  He basically knows about this feeling on my part—and I’ll leave it at that, apart from adding that I’m the first to admit I’m hardly one to talk, there being what must be a ton of people who’d say the same about me.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 06, 2005, 03:11 AM | #

Fred,

Butt out!

Posted by Martin Hutchinson on November 06, 2005, 03:33 AM | #

Geoff, I’m sorry, I may have been imputing to you an aesthetic judgement that you do not in fact possess.  The equivalent photos of Truman or Eden would be aestheticaly boring, and of only infinitesimal historical interest. 

As David Irving points out on the site to which you linked, the Third Reich had a very individual artistic, architectural, musical and aesthetic style which is itself of considerable art-historical interest and is to the dispassionate but aesthetically oriented eye (or ear) pleasing. I had naturally assumed that an equivalent aesthetic judgement had motivated your posting of the items, but I obviously misjudged you.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 06, 2005, 03:35 AM | #

“Fred, Butt out!”

OK, but I thought my phrasing was pretty diplomatic, Geoff.  I even threw in a mea culpa.

Posted by Mark Richardson on November 06, 2005, 04:03 AM | #

Geoff knew it was a provocation to post those photos.

I wonder, in fact, if Geoff has not adopted provocation as a political method.

Geoff can confirm or deny this as he pleases, but I wonder if his theory is that people in general are too complacent and that the solution is to provoke them aggressively until they react.

It’s not what’s needed. People are going to get woken up by what happens in the real world (e.g. Paris) not by what we post on MR.

What MR can do is to help educate and inspire people reacting to these events. This won’t happen if we assume that nothing will offend these visitors.

Provoking them might just make them go away.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 06, 2005, 04:04 AM | #

Mark,

Don’t think too deeply about all this. You are wasting your time.

If you keep this up I may indeed say something offensive, but it won’t have anything to do with Nazi Germany.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 06, 2005, 04:07 AM | #

I agree with Mark’s comment, though again, I’m probably not one to talk.

Posted by Martin Hutchinson on November 06, 2005, 04:15 AM | #

Geoff, why keep promising what you so wholeheartedly perform?

“Butt out” wasn’t offensive?

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 06, 2005, 04:16 AM | #

> “Butt out” wasn’t offensive?

Then I succeeded.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 06, 2005, 04:18 AM | #

All:

Please see my updated posting on the original heading.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 06, 2005, 04:24 AM | #

Respectfully, Geoff, I don’t think pugnaciousness is the way to go with this stuff.  I think it’s counterproductive.  (Yes, yes, I know, I just called what’s-his-name a crashing bore—but first, I’m not a blogger, and second ... “Do as I say, not as I do.” )

Posted by WJG on November 06, 2005, 04:35 AM | #

It would be nice if ‘anti-semitism’ didn’t end up as violent as ‘semitism’ - two world wars, western cultural collapse, on-going white genocide (yes genocide) - but it may have to if we are to survive.  If one is to look at violence please remove the log from jewry’s eyes before the speck is taken from ours.

Nazism was a defense against the scourge of ‘liberalism’ and outright treason against Germany in WWI.  It never would have happened without the Balfour Declaration, the Treaty of Versailles, and other schemes against her.  Nazism actions were often awful but vengeance unleashed is never pretty.  Saying anything that is not outright condemnation against the Nazis may be a big problem for WN gaining traction for all the previous reasons mentioned; but the big one is because of who we are subjects of.  Until that changes WN will never go anywhere.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 09:51 AM | #

Geoff, anyone with their wits about them knows full well that you have no time for Hitler. So what is the point, exactly, of posting pictures of Hitler? What were you trying to achieve, and what were the projected consequences of doing so?

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 10:17 AM | #

WJG - Adolf Hitler was the third greatest mass murderer in the 20th Century, and led Germany into complete ruin. We have very little to learn from Hitler, and, more to the point, associating with national socialism is suicidal for anyone who wishes to wake up the West from its slumber.

Posted by Tournament of Champions on November 06, 2005, 11:16 AM | #

Can’t do proper marketing without feedback. Perhaps a future post should survey the demographics and beliefs of readers, e.g.

Demographics:
age/race/subrace/nationality/sex/education/profession/…

Beliefs regarding:

religion/revisionism/Nazism/JQ/immigration…

Posted by Phil on November 06, 2005, 12:06 PM | #

stupid bla bla bla

I don’t think Hitler is responsible for the fact that France and Belgium have moronically taken in millions of Arabs and Africans. Ergo, I must be “defending” Hitler.

I have already wasted enough of my time on you. People like you are a dead end.

In any case, I wasn’t referring to your defence of Germany against the allegation that Belgium imported Arabs because of Hitler (an argument I totally disagree with). You have defended the Third Reich and even glorified it not just on this blog but also in countless other places.

So why not just admit it? I suppose you won’t because you have all the courage becoming of a keyboard commando.

Posted by Phil on November 06, 2005, 12:16 PM | #

Nazism was a defense against the scourge of ‘liberalism’ and outright treason against Germany in WWI.  It never would have happened without the Balfour Declaration, the Treaty of Versailles, and other schemes against her.

That is also Winston Churchill’s view, by the way.

Nazism actions were often awful but vengeance unleashed is never pretty.  Saying anything that is not outright condemnation against the Nazis may be a big problem for WN gaining traction for all the previous reasons mentioned; but the big one is because of who we are subjects of.  Until that changes WN will never go anywhere.

Endorsing Nazism is a dead end. Political parties of the New-Right that have had success in Europe (Vlaams Belang, Front National, the BNP etc.) have all done so by distancing themselves from Nazis.

We are now at a very crucial stage in European history. Opportunities like this will not come again. This is a time for the New-Right to play its cards right and win political battles and alter the course of History.

Going the Nazi route will ensure their defeat and the total destruction of Europe. By being irresponsbile, those who claim to be friends of the New Right will end up damaging it.

Perversely, I suppose, some people just cannot get the 1930s out of their heads even if the cost is the total destruction of the West itself. The West would rather be destroyed than they be restrained from talking about Hitler.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 01:14 PM | #

Friedrich has also excused and rationalised Hitler’s extermination of a large number of Poles. Being a conspiracy theorist, I can only conclude that Friedrich is an agent-provocateur.

Tell me, Friedrich, who are you really working for?

Posted by Phil on November 06, 2005, 01:26 PM | #

Friedrich has also excused and rationalised Hitler’s extermination of a large number of Poles.

He had better not say that publicly since he is physically in Poland.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 02:12 PM | #

He had better hope that his real name is not “Friedrich Braun”, then.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 06, 2005, 03:39 PM | #

Steve:

Geoff, anyone with their wits about them knows full well that you have no time for Hitler. So what is the point, exactly, of posting pictures of Hitler? What were you trying to achieve, and what were the projected consequences of doing so?

What is wrong with you Steve? I found the photos interesting and I bet others do as well.

Why do you suppose books of Hitler and Mussolini fly of the shelves, as well an TV “documentaries”.

Frankly, I think many minds have been so indoctrinated with fear brainwashing on this subject it is frightening.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 06, 2005, 03:43 PM | #

I just went to Amazon and typed Hitler in the book search, and I got 4021 hits:

1 - 10 of 4241

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-1647280-3384954

You people have lost your minds - GET REAL

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 04:28 PM | #

Well, you may have a point. But people who are interested in winning some hearts and minds had serious alarm bells ringing. It just seemed weird.

Posted by Kubilai on November 06, 2005, 04:29 PM | #

In a sane world, these pictures would not matter one iota, nor would they have any “ulterior motives” or “sympathizer” labels attached to the websites posting them.  We all know that the world is not sane.  I’ve said before that I find Hitler, the history, the rise to power and all the surrounding events of WWII fascinating from a historical and educational perspective.  The same goes for many of the powerful leaders of the past.  To me it’s interesting.

With that said, I have to agree with Phil that our collective goal is to save Europe first and foremost, then the remainder of the western world.  Whatever that takes.  It is a fact that we all know that Hitler and the Nazis are one of the most negative images of our current state.  Rightly or wrongly from different people’s perspective is immaterial because it IS what it IS and that cannot be changed presently and THAT is not our goal.  People immediately cringe at these images or any flattering verbiage that is thrown towards AH due to relentless indoctrination and that history is written by the victors.  But let’s face it, AH was no fucking prize, eh?  He was no prize for Europe and people that flock to him do so for his standing up to the Jewish problem of his time and his anti-miscegenation ideals all the while ignoring his many negatives, which there were plenty of.  There have been many proponents of white causes that could be used as a rallying point and we do not need to be stuck in the quagmire of AH and his negatives.

Now this is not meant as a chastising towards Geoff, because chastisement is not necessary.  I find his verve absolutely refreshing and necessary as he is one of the strongest and most vocal proponents of western man.  The only thing I want to say to Geoff is that we DO need the moderates in order to get anywhere.  If we only cater to people like us, the already converted and stringently loyal, then the movement, as Phil calls it, will go nowhere as it has for so long in the US.  However with this, I fall back to what JW has said and that there are certain moderates that we do not want though that will sort itself out later.  For now we need numbers and turning people away, admittedly due to indoctrination, is not a good thing.  This is my opinion of things.

As for “Adolph Jr”, he is either a warped little Hitlephile, and there are those for sure, or as Steve Edwards states an agent provocateur.  I’ve suspected for some time now, as Steve has, he is the latter because of his extreme beliefs on Hitler.  Pathologic really.  He is NOT the norm, nor should we strive to gravitate into his “world”.  For his world has brought destruction to western man and his world, if allowed to, will bring about the complete genocide of western man.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 06, 2005, 04:39 PM | #

”What is wrong with you Steve? I found the photos interesting and I bet others do as well.  Why do you suppose books of Hitler and Mussolini fly off the shelves, as well any TV ‘documentaries.’?  Frankly, I think many minds have been so indoctrinated with fear brainwashing on this subject it is frightening.” (—Geoff, 3:39 PM)

I finally had a look at the pix last night, Geoff, and the fact is they’re not interesting.  They’re very minor scraps and bits & pieces, obscure odds and ends that are probably obscure for good reason:  they’re not so interesting or important.  They’re for Hitler buffs.  Why they’d be posted at a blog like this as a stand-alone log entry out-of-the-blue is puzzling.  Why analogous pix of Lenin or of whoever else would be posted as an entry at a blog like this would be equally puzzling.  If someone did it you’d say the guy’s a Lenin buff.  Geoff we’re being honest and so should you:  I agree with Mark that you posted that entry knowingly as a provocation because you may view deliberate such provocation as the way to proceed.  It’s not my place, of course, to talk about the intended spirit of this blog, but my guess would be that approach is in violation of it.

Posted by Svigor on November 06, 2005, 04:40 PM | #

Any pleading on behalf of your people and their genetic interests will earn you the “Nazi” label today. You cannot avoid it no matter how fast you run away from any references to the Third Reich.

This is a cop-out that NSDAP-symbology boosters (and their sympathizers) always seem to resort to.  It’s a cop-out, plain and simple.  Really it’s a general insult to people’s intelligence.  It’s the same as saying “people are too stupid to suss anything out for themselves.  They’ll always believe media lies so we might as well live the lie - it makes no difference.”

It is one thing to be called a murderer by the press.  It is another to use the accusation as an excuse for murder, and still another to be caught on camera committing murder

This seems so galactically simple to me that I have trouble forcing myself to even discuss the matter.

The media provides us with a golden opportunity to consistently prove them liars and make ourselves look good and some twits (or maybe Feds) want us to throw the opportunity away, as if we’re just handed opportunities all day every day (not referring to Geoff here, as his decision was probably not prudent but he has a point - which might have been his goal to make all along - about Stalin and Lenin).

Posted by Kubilai on November 06, 2005, 04:43 PM | #

I forgot to mention this statement by Adolph Jr…

Any pleading on behalf of your people and their genetic interests will earn you the “Nazi” label today. You cannot avoid it no matter how fast you run away from any references to the Third Reich.

This is PARTLY true.  I have had many, many arguments across the blogosphere and net about race and western man’s plight.  Of course the first words out of the “tolerant” leftist’s mouth are Hitler, Nazis, Klansman, etc.  My arguments never wavered, were logical and, filled with factual data.  With THIS approach,I was able to muzzle any counter from the left and allowed to speak for extended lengths on people’s blogs without censure.  With this approach, I was able to relay information and allow other readers to occasionally, and actually quite frequently, come out and voice their APPROVAL of my stance.  If I started quoting Hitler and the like, not only would I have been called Hitler etc, I would have been summarily ignored and discounted as a wacko.  So NO, Adolph Jr is wrong where he states that we should go ahead and speak in a laudatory manner of AH and the “Third Reich”.  WRONG!

Posted by Phil on November 06, 2005, 04:43 PM | #

Kubilai,

Very well said. Thanks.

Posted by Kubilai on November 06, 2005, 04:45 PM | #

Damn Svi, you beat me to the punch.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 04:51 PM | #

Hey! Geoff just posted a new post, and then it disappeared. Geoff - are you responsible for this?

What the hell are you playing at?

Posted by Matra on November 06, 2005, 04:51 PM | #

Uh...what happened to the thread with the letter to David Irving? It seems to have been removed.

Should anyone be writing to Irving maybe they could ask this “champion of speech” why he used the British courts to get John Lukacs’ The Hitler of History censored.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 04:52 PM | #

This is very, very, suspicious.

Posted by Kubilai on November 06, 2005, 05:02 PM | #

Phil, again thanks to you all other bloggers for this place and my pleasure.

As for the David Irvine letter, guys let’s not get too carried away with conspiracy theories and the like.  Let’s remember Occam, shall we?  Geoff probably had second thoughts is my thinking.  JJR has done the same.

Posted by Geoff Beck on November 06, 2005, 05:03 PM | #

David:

You have chosen to take down the letter I sent to Mr. Irving, that is your perogative. Please consider my relationship to MR finished and disable my access to the blog.  I am posting the letter in the original thread, you of course may delete it if you wish.  This is my final post.

-----------------------------
Mr. Irving:

Recently I posted a short memo informing the readers of Majority Right’s blog about the Hitler and Mussolini photographs newly published on FPP Online.

http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1697/

The readers of this blog often claim to be immune from PeeCee, yet the haughty outrage directed at me was not different than that of prudish feminist offended at a sexist quip.

Everyone had their pet theory as to why I posted such a link: 1) I was a collector of Nazi Kitsch; 2) the photos represented a manifesto of racialist political philosophy with which I wanted to infuse into the blog; or 3) I was somehow attempting to wreck the blog by offending the readership.

I can only ascribe this fear response as a conditioning effect, years of pseudo television documentaries have created a substitution effect where the satanic element has been transferred from the devil to Hitler, or as the late Maurice Cowling said:

...secularization, so far from involving liberation from religion has involved merely the liberation from Christianity and the establishment in its place of a modern religion whose advocates so much assume its truth that they do not understand it is a religion to which they are committed.”

Anyway, this Hitler as Satan propaganda is not that much different from WWI atrocity stories, like that of Edith Cavell and Belgian children having their arms cut off by Hun warrior savages.

==http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/firstworldwar/spotlights/alleged.htm

==http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/firstworldwar/images/spotlights/q106364_small.jpg

Sincerely,
Geoff Beck

Posted by john rackell on November 06, 2005, 05:03 PM | #

Damn! I was just adding my inane remarks under the letter to David Irving when it got whacked - But so you won’t be without the benefit of my wisdom…

For English people raised on Dad’s Army Hitler is a buffoon - albeit a dangerous one, menacing jolly old England - but still a buffoon. The images confirmed that notion, the uniforms, the jodphurs, the self importance. The guy’s a joke. One of the tragedies of the Hitler era is it happened in Germany - if the holocaust had happened in England, what, a death toll of max 20,000? There’d be endless tea breaks, strikes for more tea breaks, work to rule, feather bedding, generalized inefficiency, poor management, job demarcation disputes, the whole thing would have been a jolly cock-up.

Posted by Matra on November 06, 2005, 05:03 PM | #

Though posting pictures of Hitler is harmless in itself it did seem odd given that virtually all threads here are about topical issues. It’s not as if the pictures gave us some new insight into an historical figure.

Geoff - In the past you have provided links to the cretinous neo-Nazi Alex Linder. Others here have whinged about Dresden and holocaust revisionism (a legitimate topic to discuss) has also been a recurrent theme of your posts. With all that in mind it is hardly surprising that some of us are suspicious as to why you would post these photos.

Posted by Svigor on November 06, 2005, 05:11 PM | #

Sometimes reframing the issue helps.

Consider the fact that Hitler and NSDAP symbology (and proper nouns)* represent the ultimate apotheosis of political evil in the western mind.  Consider that this representation comes at the cost of billions of dollars and untold thousands of man-hours, and that it is mostly the work of our political enemies.

Consider that by simply choosing not to goose step into the breach to defend Hitler wearing an SS uniform while performing a Roman salute, one flushes all those dollars and hours down the toilet while their contributors scream in horror.

I believe the stakes justify my clumsy hyperbole.

Tactics over honor (real or perceived) for me, every time.

*This is all the discussion is about; rewrite NS ideology and change the proper nouns and symbology and there is no issue.  NS types won’t even do that, which shows what they’re really about imo.

Posted by Svigor on November 06, 2005, 05:16 PM | #

Damn Svi, you beat me to the punch.

Ehehe, 3 minutes baby, read ‘em and weep!

We seem to be more or less interchangeable ideologically, at least from my perspective, so no biggie. :D

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 06, 2005, 05:16 PM | #

I’m going to say something else, because Geoff is trying to brazen it out here, instead of being frank—and not just brazen it out, but rudely so.  The reason I for one have been making these comments in the thread rather than privately to Geoff by e-mail (which is where they properly belong) is that I e-mailed him a few months ago in a spirit of “constructive criticism” in order to mention that I felt he tended too much toward pugnaciousness which I didn’t think was ideal for the site’s success, and although I was as polite and diplomatic as I could be in my e-mail I was rebuffed so rudely I was taken aback (and I’m not exactly a shrinking violet).  I didn’t expect him to agree but I expected civility.  A brief exchange ensued in which he maintained his rude tone, which surprised the hell out of me, and it was crystal-clear he did not want to receive any criticism whatsoever in the nature of the ones I’d made and not only didn’t want to receive them but would respond very rudely.  There was absolutely no discussion on his part, just short, blunt rebuffs that were quite rude.  I told him as my parting comment that, that being the case, from then on any criticisms of him which I might have would be made in the threads rather than to him privately.  That seemed to suit him. 

That e-mail experience is why I’ve not taken this “private”:  he doesn’t want to hear it, public or private, and can be extremely rude when approached.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 05:21 PM | #

Geoff can leave if he likes, but I think it would be a shame. Geoff - much of the content you have provided on this blog, pictures, posts, whatever, has been most jolting. But that is exactly the sort of shock-treatment that is required these days, and this is why people enjoy reading your work. Where we part company is over issues such as

-this thread, which has been a needless point of division, achieving nothing whatsoever of any worth

-your claim that depicting the third worst mass-murderer of the 20th Century like “Satan” is analagous to believing the entirely fictious World War I propaganda vis-a-vis Belgian babies.

Dude. It’s not the same thing. I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask: are you a Hitler sympathiser and why?

Posted by Svigor on November 06, 2005, 05:24 PM | #

Geoff, don’t be such a hothead.  I for one want you to stay and value your contributions.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 05:29 PM | #

And also

-threatening John Ray with physical violence because you oppose his views on immigration (most people here also oppose JJR’s views, including myself and Fred Scrooby)

Posted by friedrich braun on November 06, 2005, 05:40 PM | #

Friedrich has also excused and rationalised Hitler’s extermination of a large number of Poles.

Let me know when you’re through lying.

I left grossdeutches-vaterland forum precisely because I disagreed with the excessively strident nature of its anti-Polish message. See for e.g. this old thread where I’m actually pleading Poland’s case:

http://www.grossdeutsches-vaterland.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7192#post7192

Posted by friedrich braun on November 06, 2005, 05:46 PM | #

He had better not say that publicly since he is physically in Poland.

Posted by Phil on 11/06 at 01:26 PM

In all the years that I’ve been posting this is this the first time that I had an admin. member publicily disclose my physical location. Since I travel extensively on business, my temporary location is meaningless. However, short of publicily giving out IP addresses of participants, “Phil” just showed himself to be an untrustworthy piece of shit. I hope everyone took notice.

Posted by Phil on November 06, 2005, 05:49 PM | #

The eloquence of Herr Braun:

I’m thinking of posting a poll:

Whom do you hate more?

1) Jews;

2) Brits;

3) Americans;

4) Poles.

Jews and Brits (I hate EVERYTHING about the British—from demockracy (their bastard child) to their legendary perfidy and hypocrisy and various, strange, personal idiosyncracies and let’s not forget their philo-Semitism. There has always been something “off” about the British). If I could, I’d nuke the entire f****** island...I’d turn it into a parking lot)

Poles and Americans will have to fight it out for third place.

We are in awe of such intellect.

Posted by friedrich braun on November 06, 2005, 05:54 PM | #

People like you are a dead end.

As opposed to fearless cyberspace warriors such as yourself?

Let us know of your undoubtedly numerous accomplishments “out in the real world”...hmmm...ah...huh...*sound of crickets in the background”...I thought so...Just shut up.

Besides flipping out at the sight of Hitler pictures; and predictably resorting to all kinds Semitically correct black and white cliches, facile, one-sided, and unnuanced judgments.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 06, 2005, 05:54 PM | #

For me Geoff has been an asset to this blog and I’ve really liked most of his stuff and of course agree with him in fundamental ways but there’s this unfortunate pugnacious side which he can’t or won’t control, which doesn’t happen to be my own cup of tea.  Whether his continued participation as a blogger would help or hinder the site’s effectiveness I don’t know.  I’m also the first to acknowledge that for many, my own stuff is beyond the pale:  preferring, for example, the term “Negro” to “African-American” or “Sub-Saharan” for most contexts, as I do, is in the estimation of many extremely vile.  So, I don’t pretend to know where the right limits lie.  But that’s my judgment of the effect Geoff’s stuff has (or, has on me, at any rate):  a mixture of good/helpful and bad/counterproductive.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 05:58 PM | #

Let me know when you’re through lying.

Oh, is that so, “Friedrich”?

I refer all MR readers to this comment by “Friedrich Braun” on the 4th of June 2005:

http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/924/

As to Poles, Polish brutality towards its German minority was well documented in the 30s by the media and various international agencies. During WW II, they got exactly what they deserved. I’d even say that some aspects of the German occupation was too lenient and gentle.

Thanks very much, “Friedrich”, for your valuable assistance. It’s all very clear to me now, “Friedrich”, and my suspicions are now 100% confirmed.

Do pass on my regards to David Rockefeller next time you bump into him, will you?

Posted by friedrich braun on November 06, 2005, 06:00 PM | #

We are in awe of such intellect.

It was meant to be a fun and humourous and feisty little post (taken out of context); and not a position paper.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 06:03 PM | #

(I hate EVERYTHING about the British—from demockracy (their bastard child) to their legendary perfidy and hypocrisy and various, strange, personal idiosyncracies and let’s not forget their philo-Semitism. There has always been something “off” about the British). If I could, I’d nuke the entire f****** island...I’d turn it into a parking lot)

Poles and Americans will have to fight it out for third place.

Do rack off, you disgusting bigot.

Posted by Kubilai on November 06, 2005, 06:05 PM | #

It was meant to be a fun and humourous and feisty little post -braun

Oh yes, now that you clarified it, I just can’t stop laughing at your “humour”.

Posted by Martin Hutchinson on November 06, 2005, 06:08 PM | #

As I’ve said frequently before, I think MR needs some ground rules if it is to succeed and be persuasive. Among these should be:

1) No emotional anti-Semitism.  Rational and careful discussion of negative aspects of Jewish thought and culture are fine, but only in small doses

2) No covert glorification of the Third Reich, or allegations that it solved a Jewish “problem.” Germany had a number of problems in the early 1930s, mostly caused by the cack-handedly Wilsonian Treaty of Versailles and the economically illiterate Hoover administration, but Hitler wasn’t the long term solution to any of them.

3) No personal abuse.

I’m well aware that on this site I’m the wimpy suspect liberal second only to JJR; given my overall position in the political spectrum this indicates to me that the site is in danger of falling off the edge of the world entirely, which would be a pity.

Alternatively, the site is entirely free to ignore these or similar ground rules, in which case it will not succeed and will not be persuasive.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 06:08 PM | #

Kubilai, please keep in mind that ACLU employees aren’t exactly the wittiest characters in town.

Posted by Matra on November 06, 2005, 06:09 PM | #

Germans...sense of humour?...DOES NOT COMPUTE...DOES NOT COMPUTE...DOES NOT COMPUTE…

Posted by friedrich braun on November 06, 2005, 06:09 PM | #

One more point on this: as my departure from grossdeutches-vaterland forum indicates my position has significantly evolved on several issues. To all those quotes you’ve submitted, I could counterquote, for e.g.:

The reason that I think such threads are futile is because no one will ever Waltz into Poland again (as history has shown, even September 1939 was a mistake). If by some miracle that were possible the West and the world won’t stand by twirling their thumbs in total indifference. But more importantly, no sane German government will ever contemplate such a mad option. (No one is interested in seeing a war in Central Europe again.) And like I said, Germany has millions of hostile foreigners in its midst and a totally oppressed and re-educated German population. After all, we’re speaking about a people who cannot stop building gigantic Jewish museums and memorials everywhere in Germany, a country that has paid hundreds of millions of dollars to Israel, a nation that has acquiesced to its displacement and genocide by allowing savage immigration, a masochistic people that cannot stop from apologizing to the world for being German, a people that has the most Orwellian laws on its books censoring expressions of racial, national pride or even challenging the establishment in its quest to annihiliate Germany, a country that imprisons historians who question the standard WW II narrative or the holocaust dogma.
__________________

Re: Your opinion of Polish people?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
a) If you will, all threads are futile, because we wont change the world with this forum. 

No, we won’t. But arguing for the invasion of Poland again seems to be the epitome of futility itself.

Quote:
b) Part of your argumentation could have been spoken by Don anus himself. 

Cheap shot, not worth commenting on.

Quote:
c) I know very well in what condition Germany is today. But obviously you lack the fantasy to consider the possibility, that this could change. The allied victory of 1945 was not the final word on Germany. And no, it was NOT a mistake to trash the Polaks in 1939, because it was a matter of honour and protecting our fellow people under polak tyranny. That can never be a mistake. 

How about looking at the results of that decision? Germany went to war over Danzing and ended the war in total rubble, under foreign domination, and with 1/3 of its nation gone. I guess we have a different working definition of “mistake.” In hindsight, September 1939 was one of the worst decisions in German history. An abolute miscalculation.

Quote:
d) Like Anus you seemed to have allready signed off these provinces. Fuzzy fantasys of Polaks giving everything back peacefully and then packing their bags to move back towards central Poland are stupid and silly. Anyone that knows Polaks, knows that will NEVER happen. They are allready infiltrating the rest of Germany and buying up property in Brandenburg. 

You’re totally out of your mind if you believe that Germany will march into Poland at any time in the future to reclaim those lands. Such a foolhardy action (even if contemplated in some parallel universe) would spell the complete annihilation of Germany FOR EVER.

Quote:
e) Maybe you think the rest of the world is so fond of Polaks, but History says otherwise. And I am very disapointed of you, that you have no faith in a German future. You have resigned allready before the battle has begun. 

No, I look objectively and realistically at the situation; I don’t daydream impossible (and horrific) scenarios.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 06:12 PM | #

It’s too late, “Friedrich”. Nobody will ever believe a word you say again. You are a stooge for the Enemy Class.

Posted by friedrich braun on November 06, 2005, 06:18 PM | #

My posts and and others can be found in this thread:

http://www.grossdeutsches-vaterland.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7132#post7132

It’s unfortunate that I don’t have access to the admin. section of that forum. I’d include my final post spelling out my differences on many issues with the general direction of that board; most notably, I left because I couldn’t accept the constant calls to wipe out Poland, etc.

However, quoting what I might or might not have said years ago on different boards seems rather contemptible. I suppose it seems to the general nature and character of MR contributors.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 06:23 PM | #

However, quoting what I might or might not have said years ago on different boards seems rather contemptible.

No it isn’t contemptible, you shill, and it was five months ago, not “years”. Someday, I suggest you train yourself in the art of logic.

You have clearly stated that you think Hitler went easy on the Poles, and that they deserved their treatment in any case.

Truly, “Friedrich”. Morris Dees clearly isn’t getting his money’s worth out of you.

Posted by john rackell on November 06, 2005, 06:23 PM | #

mostly caused by the cack-handedly Wilsonian Treaty of Versailles

It’s somewhat ironic that we get tied up in knots about the injustice perpetrated by us on the Germans by the Treaty of Versailles when the Germans explicitly had the aim of financing the war - paying off their war bonds - from what it would extract from France after it had won the war. And their hyperinflation of 1922-23 was a way to get out from under their debts (both under Vers. and to their own citizens), but it was caused by decisions taken earlier in 1914 and throughout the war.

Seen in this light the Germans would have shown no mercy in taking what they felt was theirs.

The British just stole the gold from their benighted citizens to pay for the war.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 06:29 PM | #

Yes, well. No need to get too caught up in historical blame games. All we need to know is that “Friedrich Braun” is a highly slippery character, whom I am virtually 100% certain is working for the ACLU or the ADL, and that Geoff Beck has (either unwittingly or wittingly) played into the hands of “Friedrich”.

Posted by Kubilai on November 06, 2005, 06:30 PM | #

Braun, shut the hell up, will you?  Your words of “years ago” haven’t wavered much from the words of...umm...yesterday. 

Steve Edwards, yes I agree.  The ACLU lackeys and most of the “tolerant” left are painfully stupid and witless.  And I agree that Braun has shown his colors.

Martin, I agree with a fair amount with your “rules”, however if the JQ is discussed, then it needs to be discussed.  We cannot temper dialogue or postings of it on some “set amount”.  This blog is far, far from a monomaniacal treatment of the JQ.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 06:40 PM | #

Kubilai, I pretty much agree with your take on “Martin’s rules”, however it must be said that the only people who have every seriously breached them have been “wintermute” and “Friedrich Braun”.

Posted by A Casual Observer on November 06, 2005, 07:25 PM | #

This is the problem with this blog that had been pointed out by numerous individuals over year. Those same individuals suffered ad-hominem attacks from the likes of Fred Scrooby, Guessedworker, and Geoff Beck. Those individuals were chased away from the forum and accused of such things as advocating “racial genocide” or “race replacement.”

Now you have pro-Nazi goons left like Friedrich Braun, who would be perfectly happy with a nuclear Holocaust being effected upon various regions of the West, as long as the nukes don’t touch his beloved Germany and Poland. You have Geoff Beck posting pictures of Hitler in comment threads remarking about how loved he was, posting links to the most extreme and vulgar neo-Nazi ideologues (ie, Alex Linder and VNN), commenting about how Hitler has supposedly been unfairly demonized and how Europe would be better off under Nazi rule than it is now, and even making entire threads dedicated to lame-ass pictures of Hitler. Thankfully, some of the goons have left, like Wintermute, but there are more than a few that remain and I will not go about naming names; you know who they are.

Here this blog is, growing at an extremely rapid rate with more and more viewers everyday, and by failing to do some basic site management you risk it all now at this critical time.

A choice must be made: will this blog continue to post thoughtful, patriotic, discussions of the fate of the West and attempt to influence others to join the movement, or will it dematerialize into another marginalized member of the pro-Nazi blog genre?

The West isn’t going to have another chance. It’s now or never. Unfortunately, if this is somehow representative of the defenders of the West, maybe it’s time for us to pack up our stuff and fade into history like all great civilizations have done in the past.

Good luck to you all.

Posted by The Mighty Mole on November 06, 2005, 07:43 PM | #

Where’s Guessedworker in all this? I thought he ran the site. Posting Adolf’s and Benito’s holiday snaps was a bad move. We need a little more of the Fuhrerprinzip round here;-)

My view is that no true conservative with a national/racial conscience could possibly approve of A. Hitler. He was a foreign interloper (probably part-Slav) who muscled in on a Germany whose natural condition-- which the Allies should have restored in 1918-- is a charming, cultured collection of small kingdoms, mediatised princedoms, city states etc. 

Hitler made ‘the German Reich’ (a bogus invention of Bismarck) even more of an unnaturally unified entity, and proceeded to try to construct an empire and a multiracial European federation. Both are utterly antagonistic to true racial patriotism, which demands a single, compact, controllable homeland for a coherent extended family, maintaining its borders inviolate but resolutely refusing to trespass or be a bad neighbour.

No wonder Hitler failed. He deserved to. And in his last nihilistic moments he proved he was the falsest of friends to Germanness, wishing perdition on ‘his’ volk for failing to win his idiotic and cruel wars. Having gone into battle against Bolshevism, he managed to give it a 50-year life extension. What a klutz!

National Socialists and Zionists were two of a kind and more than occasional collaborators. So there’s some poetic justice in seeing the Israelis making all the same mistakes: herding different kinds of Jew together in a synthetic, discriminatory, constitution-less nation state, pursuing ‘lebensraum’ in the East, antagonising every country around them, flogging themselves to fight endless wars and facing a Gotterdammerung unless some Jewish Stauffenberg plot overthrows the Likud regime.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 07:45 PM | #

Casual - I understand your concerns, and that is precisely why we are hounding the likes of “Friedrich Braun” from these pages.

However, I don’t think there is anything wrong with Fred Scrooby pointing out the reality of “race replacement”. There is nothing “nazi” about describing the dynamics of race replacement, nor in arguing that Europeans of all stripe should be allowed to avoid these developments.

Think of it this way - virtually all MR’ers would agree that Croats, Slovenes, Pakistanis, East Timorese, Southern Sudanese, etc, should retain the right to ethnic self-determination and secession. Indeed, it has been the policy of the Western powers to support the self-determination of ALL of these groups at some stage in the 20th Century.

What we do here is simply extrapolate to say that Western and Northern Europeans also have the right to ethnic self-determination (and even secession), and that there is nothing morally wrong with actively exercising this right. By repeatedly arguing this fact calmly and rationally, pointing out the essential consistency of our position, and exposing the nefarious forces that oppose our rights, MR can build consciousness among its growing readership and begin to repair the damage of the 20th Century.

Finally, I will state that most bloggers and commenters here support a defensive and essentially non-interventionist, rather than expansive, patriotism. As soon as this becomes more apparent, I do not believe that there will be high barriers to people experiencing an “awakening”.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 06, 2005, 08:14 PM | #

“Those same individuals suffered ad-hominem attacks from the likes of Fred Scrooby, Guessedworker, and Geoff Beck.” (—A Casual Observer)

I only use ad hominem on insufferable half-wits who richly deserve it and worse—hey just a little quirk of mine ... (Try getting yourself some unhalfwitted friends for a change and maybe it won’t happen so often in future ...)

“Those individuals were chased away from the forum and accused of such things as advocating ‘racial genocide’ or ‘race replacement.’ ” (—A Casual Observer)

I never mistake my targets where genocide and race-replacement are concerned—if I accused them of that they were guilty.  As for their being “chased away,” if they were made of the right stuff and could justify themselves they’d have stood their ground and shown me up for a moron.  They were made of the wrong stuff.

If there’s no race-replacement there’s no problem.  I’m not spending time on blogs out of concern over economics, tax policy, the best way to implement Bush’s amnesty of forty million Mexicans, or the best approach to tinkering with immigration policy so as to give all non-whites equal access to these shores.  I have better things to do with my time, I assure you.  If I’m wrong and there’s no race-replacement all the rest is just tinkering and I’d rather be out sailing a sailboat, woodworking, or gardening, frankly.  I’m not a policy wonk and I am one hundred percent apolitical.  What attracts my attention is the issue of the life and death of nation-states and whole societies.  If those aren’t in jeopardy I’m content to leave the nuts-and-bolts of practical management to the blinkered likes of you.

“Thankfully, some of the goons have left, like Wintermute, but there are more than a few that remain and I will not go about naming names; you know who they are.”

Your objection to this blog is that it’s not radical-left-wing enough—that much is clear.  State your view of the immigration crisis, please.

“maybe it’s time for us to pack up our stuff and fade into history like all great civilizations have done in the past.”

If we listen to you for one instant that’s surely what’s in the cards.  I said I didn’t know if Geoff Beck’s continued participation would be ideal.  I have no doubts, however, about you:  your participation not only would “add” negatively to these threads but, were the overall philosophy of the blog to approach yours more closely, it would spell its certain death, while you and your ilk skipped off to utterly ruin some other blog with your absolute brainlessness.  You and your friends are, in fact, the root of the whole problem this blog is trying to confront.  Your endorsement is the kiss of death for a blog—as are you yourself for Western Civilization:  you and people like you come close to guaranteeing its extinction.

State your views of the immigration crisis, please.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 06, 2005, 08:29 PM | #

Furthermore, A Casual Observer, I don’t know how you lumped Guessedworker in with me on the ad hominem accusation, by which you meant ordinary name-calling:  I’ve never seen him call people names here.  Finally, the logical fallacy of argumentum ad hominem refers to the attempt to defeat your opponent’s argument by calling him names.  I’ve never done that.  When I’ve called morons names it’s been for the purpose of telling them off for their sheer brazen stupidity, not of defeating their arguments.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 06, 2005, 08:51 PM | #

Now, state your views of the immigration crisis please, Casual Observer.

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 09:04 PM | #

ACO - do you believe that, say, America is morally obliged to become minority European? If not, does America retain the moral right to stay majority European, if it so desires?

Posted by Mark Richardson on November 06, 2005, 09:04 PM | #

Martin, I agree with you that some kind of ground rules or voluntary code should be considered. I expect we could find some formulation which would not seem draconian to any of the regulars here.

Mighty Mole, I agree with you on AH. He belongs not to traditionalist nationalism but to the whole development of modernist politics which was so ruinous to the west in the twentieth century.

Posted by john rackell on November 06, 2005, 09:20 PM | #

In regards any rules that pertain to discussion of the JQ some might consider Kevin MacDonald anti-Semitic and even consider the questions he raises beyond the pale.

There’s a bone chilling article by KMacD at VDARE extracted from an article at the Occidental Quarterly, “Stalin’s Willing Executioners.” It’s bone chilling - the Jews were involved up to their armpits in a holocaust against the Russian Slavs - in what amounts to a historical settling of scores. Some things just have to be said, who cares how many brownie points we lose with the powers that be.

http://www.vdare.com/misc/051105_macdonald_stalin.htm

Posted by Steve Edwards on November 06, 2005, 09:29 PM | #

“Stalin’s Willing Executioners”!!!!

LOL

That is, of course, a take-off from “Hitler’s Willing Executioners” which is apparently a fairly unhinged attack on all Germans.

Posted by WJG on November 06, 2005, 11:34 PM | #

It is very unfortunate to see Geoff Beck pulling out - I hope he changes his mind.  This site has many great contributors though he is probably my favorite.  Fred Scrooby is a great contributor also so it a damned shame to hear of their unnecessary acrimony.  We need each other if we are to weather this storm.

What I see as being duked out in this thread is whether WN will continue to prostrate before the Establishment regarding the ‘Jewish Question’.  The pictures themselves are trivial.  The JQ is and has been for a long time a legitimate inquiry.  If Nazism cannot be brought up and discussed in a WN forum without reflexive condemnation then where is WN going?  Some have offered legitimate failures of Nazism (and I agree that the failures far outweigh any successes) but it seems the overwhelming tenor is to cast it down and trample on it as consistent with the ongoing catharsis of White guilt.  With calls to censor ‘anti-semitic’ content being proposed and largely being unchallenged this forum may become another respectable/establishment venue for platitudes and hand-wringing.  I hope that is not the case.

White Nationalism itself is anti-semitic because it is against the Establishment’s agenda.  That is the definition of anti-semitism - something organized Jewry (the ADL, NAACP, SPLC, etc.) doesn’t like.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 07, 2005, 12:19 AM | #

Thank you for your kind words, WJG.

Posted by Svigor on November 07, 2005, 12:51 AM | #

That is, of course, a take-off from “Hitler’s Willing Executioners” which is apparently a fairly unhinged attack on all Germans.

Yes, Daniel Goldhagen’s labor of love.  Someone smarter than me (at TOQ if memory serves) pointed out that its likely purpose was pushing outward the boundaries of jewish anti-Germanism to make the previous extremity appear moderate.

Posted by A Casual Observer on November 07, 2005, 01:32 AM | #

I am opposed to the current race replacement of the West and the mass illegal immigration occurring in the US. I am not a neo-GNXPer; lets leave it at that. I prefer to remain an observer and only made a comment because I felt it was necessary.

On a side note, if you guys could get Dr. Tomislav Sunic and Michael Walker to make some posts, that would be most excellent. They are some of the most brilliant minds the West has to offer.

Again, good luck to you all.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 07, 2005, 02:32 AM | #

“I am opposed to the current race replacement of the West and the mass illegal immigration occurring in the US.” (—A Casual Observer)

Well you certainly got yourself out of that one, Casual Observer (to be frank I never expected you would).  Nice work, I admit. 

We’ll see how you do next time, though. 

Carry on.

Posted by JB on November 07, 2005, 04:57 AM | #

The Mighty Mole:
“Having gone into battle against Bolshevism, he managed to give it a 50-year life extension. What a klutz!”

It was Roosevelt and Churchill that gave the USSR a 50 years life extension by helping it fight Germany. And Patton asked to take Moscow but his bosses said No.

Posted by JB on November 07, 2005, 05:19 AM | #

Look, if Germany had won WW2 :

-there wouldn’t be millions of arabs and africans on european soil
-there wouldn’t be a mass media hostile to the interests of whites
-there wouldn’t have been a soviet-american cold war
-there wouldn’t be thousands of russian sex slaves in Israel’s brothels

WW2 wasn’t a “good war” and nor did the “good guys” won. Yet the truth is the exact opposite of what we are continuously being told about WW2. That’s why there’s so much holocaust propaganda(*), it’s to keep whites from examining the big picture from their own viewpoint instead of the jews’ perspective. The way we see the past is probably the most important factor in determining how we act politically in the present. You don’t have to either endorse or condemn nazism and its actions to understand the consequences of WW2 but we have been conditioned to moralize and refuse to understand anything else when it comes to this topic. Living under nazi regimes would have been bad but it wouldn’t have killed us unlike those egalitarian anti-West regimes that are killing us right now.

That’s a crucial point that whites on the Allies side will have to realize: their governments forced them into a war against their own interests, the interests of their race and civilization. Our race had a lot to lose by making war against the nazi regime and very little to gain.

What about freedom some will reply ? Didn’t Europe get freedom at the end of WW2 ? No it didn’t. How important are the petty personal freedoms you may enjoy that supposedly you couldn’t under the nazis when the state forbids its people to defend their country against the invaders it let in by the millions ? European governments are at war against their own peoples just like those in North America and that’s something that would not have happened in a nazi europe.

There should not have been a Second World War but Germany is not the only one to blame here. Roosevelt let Pearl Harbour be attacked to enter the war and help his buddy Uncle Joe. The English refused compromises and they ended up allying themselves with the soviet monsters to beat Germany, why ? Can anyone here still believe Churchill or Roosevelt cared about freedom ? If anyone has to be blamed for the state of the West today these two should be on the top of our lists.

* : certainly thousands died but the Six Million figure appeared before WW2

http://www.codoh.com/incon/incrucifix.html

and I’ve never seen geysers of blood except in movies

Posted by AD on November 07, 2005, 05:30 AM | #

On a side note, if you guys could get Dr. Tomislav Sunic and Michael Walker to make some posts, that would be most excellent. -ACO

Agree wholeheartedly. Tomislav Sunic is one of my favourite writers. I assume he would be a busy guy though.

Posted by Russell Young on November 07, 2005, 03:45 PM | #

A subject that on the surface should be quite mundane extracts such passion, aggression, virulent defensivness.  A subject that is against the law to discuss in many western countries.  Was World War II worth it and why?  Was Germany destroyed while protecting Europe from the east again.  The question that laid Pat Bucannan low a few months back.  Your going to cut a wide berth and go around.  Maybe you should ask WHY???

Posted by Guessedworker on November 07, 2005, 08:43 PM | #

Tom is a personal acquaintance for whom I have great respect.  He has a shining integrity and he possesses what can, I think, fairly be called a beautiful mind.  At the time he agreed to blog for us he was working in the Croatian Embassy in London.  At the moment he is still working for the Croatian diplomatic core but back in Zagreb.  He is not free to make a long-term committment to blogging, and I have not pressed him on the matter.  I hope this will change.

Posted by RobertinArabia on December 31, 2005, 01:48 AM | #

http://www.national-socialism.us/
Grand Ayatollah Calls for Examining Holocaust Claim

12/29/2005

Grand Ayatollah Naser Makarem Shirazi, the great Shiite source of emulation, stressing the need for freedom of speech called Islamic and western thinkers and intellectuals to form an international committee to investigate into different aspects of the Holocaust claim, Rasa website reported.

The grand Ayatollah saying this added that the Zionists say Nazi Germany killed some six million Jews in concentration camps and nobody should deny this, and this is in essence censorship of history.

“Anyone who questions this historical event in Europe will end up in prison. It is unprecedented in history that someone be jailed for speaking about a historical event; however, today denial or even expressing doubt about the Holocaust will mean imprisonment, as we have seen some historians in Germany and France imprisoned for this very reason” he said.

“It does no harm to anyone to discuss Holocaust in order to shed light on the event” he added.

The great Shiite source of emulation referred to Israel’s massacre of the Palestinians an said “From the west’s point of view it is alright for Israelis to slaughter Palestinians, even the so called human rights organizations are standing silently by, but questioning the authenticity of the Holocaust is a crime.”

The grand Ayatollah called for a conference on the issue at which Muslim and western scholars study the authenticity of the claims by Israelis as well as the history of the formation of Israel as an occupier.

[Source: Iranian Quran News Agency]