Invasive subcon keeps it ‘empirical’

Posted by PF on July 26, 2010, 10:11 PM | #

Its so regrettable that we didnt have the firepower to rival this guy during his ascent to internet quasi-stardom. We needed one dedicated college-level genetics guy who would be prolific. Didnt have it in 07.

anyway, thanks Dasein.

Posted by James Bowery on July 26, 2010, 11:40 PM | #

There are more subcons than Europeans and the percentage of subcons that are allowed to think straight about genetics is around 90% while the percentage of Europeans that are allowed to think straight about genetics is around 1%. 

Do the math…

Posted by Citizen Sailer on July 27, 2010, 03:40 AM | #

http://vdare.com/sailer/100725_sosa.htm

Citizen Sailer, the great friend of invasive subcon Razib, is peddling more stupid ideas

Posted by Murphy on July 27, 2010, 08:46 AM | #

Apologies for the non sequitur, but I wanted to make sure this was on your radar screen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1297421/Work-experience-FO-Not-middle-class-white-male.html

Posted by Leon Haller on July 27, 2010, 02:46 PM | #

“subcon”? I guess Indian subcontinental, but I’m otherwise unsure of this term. Must be Brit slang.

BTW, outstanding linked essay of GW’s. I think you should re-post it, to start a new thread of discussion.

Bottom line re repatriation: yes, and it is non-negotiable, at least for Europe. As a Christian-leaning intellectual agnostic, I cannot embrace Nazism (I also do not share the antipathy towards the Jews, for strategic, moral, and personal reasons, of many here), nor can I ethically justify expulsions of non-white citizens from US soil, at least pre-race war (once racial war has been initiated by non-whites, as it almost surely would/will be, then all bets will be off, and though certain behaviors, even in wartime, are forever off-limits to Christians concerned about personal salvation (eg, rape of enemy females), total non-white expulsions, if militarily possible, will of course be effectuated). 

For now, I can only say re US racial population policy:

1. All (non-white) illegals must be deported, and the US/Mexico border militarized, with would-be future trespassers shot on sight.
2. All non-white immigration must be halted.
3. White immigration, especially from threatened areas (eg Africa, perhaps parts of Latin America, like Venezuela, Bolivia, in the future maybe Brazil, all of which do have a certain percentage of pure whites, albeit mostly of non-Nordic extraction - though let us remember our German Mennonite brothers in Paraguay, 150,000 strong), should be encouraged, including “poaching” (eg, allowing whites from elsewhere, especially the shitholes of the former Soviet Union, to come to the US, even if that means depopulation in those already declining areas - the survival/replenishment of white America is of greater world historical/racial importance than preserving Russian control over its whole landmass, as of preserving the Boer presence in SA, indeed, the British presence in Australia/NZ, etc).
4. Euro-Jewish immigration must of course be disallowed (this does not contradict what I stated above).

But Europe is a totally different case. NO non-white has any reason for residing in Europe, the White Continent. There is absolutely no ethical (Christian) conundrum with total expulsion (though, of course, there could be with the manner of expulsion). Race-aliens must be told to leave the continent - though they should have sufficient time to wrap up their affairs as best they can. Any alien who violently resists deportation declares himself an enemy combatant, and should be killed on sight. Any European who violently resists alien deportation declares himself a military traitor, and should be killed on sight.

This is a minimalist agenda. No patriot can possibly disagree with me, at least re Europe. I’m open to debate over the situation in America, which is unfortunately far more ethically complicated.

Posted by Leon Haller on July 27, 2010, 03:02 PM | #

I forgot to mention the mass expulsions of Europeans from throughout the Third World during the mid-20th century decolonization period (Algeria, India, Indochina, Congo, etc), still going in in Southern Africa today. No one was too worried about the morality of them! (I guess it’s OK to screw over whites, but we must be ever so dainty and morally precious with the dysgenic colonists of our lands ...) And this despite the immense material and moral additions Europeans made to their colonies (unlike the minorities to our homelands).

No compromise on territory, ever (listening, Alain de Benoist?).

I’d like to see a vote - just to know if I’m wasting my time on this site. Are all agreed that all non-white “citizens” of Europe must be involuntarily repatriated out of Europe?  Yes/No. No fence-sitting!

Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 27, 2010, 06:18 PM | #

I’d like to see a vote - [...] Are all agreed that all non-white “citizens” of Europe must be involuntarily repatriated out of Europe?  Yes/No. (—Leon Haller)

Yes and there are humane ways to tighten the screws and make it more tough for them, in order to get them to decide “on their own that returning to their homelands is a better deal for them than staying and toughing it out.” A lot of it involves merely discontinuing all this Jewish-and-clueless-female-voter-cooked-up bending over backwards to welcome them and shower them with warm wishes, benefits, and ethnoracial quotas and preferences over white natives.  Whatever portion of them resists that will face the rescinding of all “hate-speech” laws and the full restoration to native whites of freedom of association with zero ability of filthy government bureaucrats and ambitious political hacks to ever again interfere in that basic and sacred freedom — including the rescinding of all laws prohibiting “discrimination” in renting or selling real estate, in hiring or promoting, in admitting as members of private clubs or organizations, in granting of university places, etc.  That sort of thing coupled with prohibitions on mosque construction, perhaps demolition of mosques already built, on grounds there is an unforeseen excessively large number of them, and so on.  Plus the program of generous citizenship buyout offers already discussed in other threads here.  Ways to humanely repatriate excessive numbers of the racially/ethnoculturally incompatible are legion and the discussions of this topic here and at other blogs have barely scratched the surface of what could be accomplished:  this is a whole huge topic rich with potential that has yet to see even the beginnings of thorough exploration.

Posted by Dasein on July 27, 2010, 07:05 PM | #

I haven’t read that much of Razib’s stuff, but, from what I’ve seen, he’s a poor writer.  Hard to to believe he’s being paid for it (though not surprising that it’s a jew, Unz, doing the paying).  I don’t find Razib, Dienekes, or Sailer to be all that impressive. Certainly not as impressive as their online reputations suggest.  As regards 2007, I missed this at the time, but that is when JWH was doing excellent work debunking the GNXP garbage about Salter.  Were you around at that time, PF?  I think J Richards also wrote some stuff critical of GNXP, before he went conspiratorial.  Razib probably would have risen to the heights of ScienceBlogs and Discover Blogs in any case.  There are white nationalists who would do a much better job, like JWH and n/a, but they’re ethnocentric whites- can’t have those guys reaching a wider audience.  Despite what Silver once said, people who have a deeper understanding of population genetics and who speak honestly about race (and its political implications) aren’t a dime a dozen.  One of the problems, as James pointed out, is that even our people who could and should be doing this have been conditioned to consider this immoral.  I suspect racial egalitarianism propaganda is especially heavy in genetics courses dealing with human evolution.  One of my profs in uni was a big fan of Lewontin and Gould.  I didn’t know any better at the time.

Posted by Dasein on July 27, 2010, 07:18 PM | #

Leon,

I think every regular here supports the mass repatriation of 3rd worlders out of Europe (if there is one who doesn’t, I’ll be very suprised).  I certainly do.  I also think we might have to consider interim, compromise solutions along the way, like turning over control of large cities like London to extra-national bodies (on the condition that the border then be sealed).  It’s not an ideal solution, but we should take advantage of factors that aid the logistics of racial/ethnic preservation, like the present concentration of most 3rd worlders in urban centres.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 27, 2010, 07:41 PM | #

“No compromise on territory, ever (listening, Alain de Benoist?).” (—Leon Haller)

No I’m afraid he’s not.  Likely never will.  Alain de Benoist is now truly irrelevant.  Events since the ‘60s-’70s have utterly passed him by.  His brain hasn’t kept up.  He’s still stuck somewhere back there.

Posted by Thorn on July 27, 2010, 07:50 PM | #

“Are all agreed that all non-white “citizens” of Europe must be involuntarily repatriated out of Europe?  Yes/No. No fence-sitting!”

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. At this point in time fantasizing about purging all non-white out of Europe is just that, fantasizing. Our first priority is to persuade as many whites as possible to place more value on their own race than that of others. Secondly enlighten them about the demographic collapse which people of European decent are currently experiencing. Once that is accomplish we can get into the whos, whats and whys these things are happening. Before these steps are accomplished, taking about involuntary repatriation of non-whites out of Europe is, I repeat, engaging in fantasy.

Posted by notuswind on July 27, 2010, 08:13 PM | #

Thorn,

It’s important to talk about this kind of stuff no matter how fanciful it may seem because we need to have a vision about what we’re working towards.

...about involuntary repatriation of non-whites out of…

If we were able to gain control of our respective societies I think that we could convince the overwhelming majority of these people to voluntarily leave through the power of propaganda alone.  If propaganda can be made to convince our own to accept the dissolution of their society it could also be made for the purposes of convincing non-Whites to leave.

Posted by PF on July 27, 2010, 08:35 PM | #

Dasein wrote:

I haven’t read that much of Razib’s stuff, but, from what I’ve seen, he’s a poor writer.  Hard to to believe he’s being paid for it (though not surprising that it’s a jew, Unz, doing the paying).  I don’t find Razib, Dienekes, or Sailer to be all that impressive. Certainly not as impressive as their online reputations suggest.  As regards 2007, I missed this at the time, but that is when JWH was doing excellent work debunking the GNXP garbage about Salter.  Were you around at that time, PF?  I think J Richards also wrote some stuff critical of GNXP, before he went conspiratorial.  Razib probably would have risen to the heights of ScienceBlogs and Discover Blogs in any case.

I was around in 2006 and posted first comments in 2007.

Why dont you find Sailer, Dienekes and Razib impressive?

I’m impressed by their ability to market themselves and their high visibility in the blogosphere.

Posted by Thorn on July 27, 2010, 09:42 PM | #

“It’s important to talk about this kind of stuff no matter how fanciful it may seem because we need to have a vision about what we’re working towards.”

notuswind,

Understood. I agree with you, it is important to talk about fanciful stuff here at MR.

Outside MR is a different story. When entering Libworld, i.e. the land of political correctness, we have to go about the job of reprogramming brainwashed whites very gingerly...an incremental approach is indicated.

That said, I realize Leon’s question was meant for those who comment at MR only.

Posted by notuswind on July 27, 2010, 09:51 PM | #

Thorn,

Outside MR is a different story. When entering Libworld, i.e. the land of political correctness, we have to go about the job of reprogramming brainwashed whites very gingerly...an incremental approach is indicated.

That said, I realize Leon’s question was meant for those who comment at MR only.

I completely agree.

Posted by Dasein on July 28, 2010, 08:46 AM | #

Why dont you find Sailer, Dienekes and Razib impressive? --PF

I didn’t know enough before to properly evaluate a lot of what these guys were saying regarding race and genetics, but now, having had a chance to become familiar with some of the theory and literature, I’ve discovered that some of what they’ve said is just incredibly wrong.  At least for Sailer and Dienekes.  From what I have seen so far, Razib’s problem is being a poor writer (odd for someone who’s supposed to be popularising HBD), and being dishonest and dissembling about the implications of these studies for European genetic interests.  Sailer’s ‘citizenism’ also seems like a concoction to distract White Americans from their ultimate interests (JWH had covered that here too).  I think, overall, what they’re doing is good.  I just expected more, based on the reputations these guys had built up over the years.

Posted by Guessedworker on July 28, 2010, 09:12 AM | #

Dasein,

The hold that ethnic genetic interests exercise over people’s judgement is frequently exquisite in its particularism, even down to disqualifying Sailer, with his Jewish descent and exogamy, and Dienekes Pontikos, with his less than Athenian antecedents, from a no-nonsense committment to a nationalism of the majority.

This fatal withholding demonstrates why the Judaic fascination with the destruction of goyim ethnicity is so dangerous and debilitating when it becomes a real-world event, as it has today.  For every good heart who finds his European-ness and understands the crime that is being perpetrated against us, there are crowds of withholders and back-sliders, and they grow every day.

Posted by Leon Haller on July 28, 2010, 11:25 AM | #

even down to disqualifying Sailer, with his Jewish descent (GW)

What does this mean: Sailer’s Jewish?

Posted by Dasein on July 28, 2010, 11:32 AM | #

I’m somewhat skeptical of that.  As far as I know, he speculated once about one or both of his biological parents being of (partial?) jewish descent (Sailer’s adopted).  I’d rather he just got it tested and let people know.  You’d think someone like him would have been among the first to go for personal genomics services.

Posted by uh on July 28, 2010, 11:40 AM | #

This fatal withholding demonstrates why the Judaic fascination with the destruction of goyim ethnicity is so dangerous and debilitating

Speaking as a dirty southern Italian / Welsh mutt, with little concern for either Italians or the remnant English, perhaps you would see less withholding of commitment (and only less, never none) if we weren’t ever made aware of our lesser value in the imposed Northern European racial hierarchy. Note that I don’t say this is altogether wrong; there are undeniable reasons that northern countries work, and southern ones don’t. Most of us less-than-Athenians are simply not interested in playing tolerated domestic negro to your white massa. Not even H & the boys were publicly guilty of racial insult in that direction. Indeed, H would sooner pontificate on the racial impurity of “Germans” (see the “Zweites Buch") before anyone else.

It’s this lurking backdrop of insult, and NOT your Judaic fascination, that alienates our kind. Continue to withhold your full embrace (which isn’t to mean replacing Pakis with Greeks or the like), from no noble motive, and we will continue to withhold ours, from spite. You like Chesterton, right? didn’t King Alfred even appeal to a Roman in gathering men to fight for England?

Posted by uh on July 28, 2010, 11:40 AM | #

*not that I say

Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 28, 2010, 12:20 PM | #

”Speaking as a dirty southern Italian / Welsh mutt, with little concern for either Italians or the remnant English, perhaps you would see less withholding of commitment (and only less, never none) if we weren’t ever made aware of our lesser value in the imposed Northern European racial hierarchy.” (—the north-south weakling signing as Uh who had everybody fooled into thinking he wasn’t a north-south type weakling)

Oh for Christ’s sake, “Uh” turns out to be one of these north-resenting south guys like Silver and Dienekes — fricking pathetic.  The guy runs around like he has half a brain or something, and then look what he turns out to be.  Good lord have mercy already!  Spare us, lord!  No more of these weaklings please!

”Most of us less-than-Athenians are simply not interested in playing tolerated domestic negro to your white massa. Not even H[itler] & the boys were publicly guilty of racial insult in that direction.”

Genius, GW wasn’t insinuating what you think, namely the Arthur-Kemp-style notion that today’s Greeks are such dagoes they can’t be related to the ancient ones everybody looks up to (although Kemp does have sort of a point there, no?  be honest).  He was referring to the well-known suspicion that Dienekes, who describes himself as a Pontic Greek (= Turkish Greek), in fact has more Turkish blood, far more, than he cares to acknowledge — which, in turn, could if true be a factor behind some of his more obnoxious positions such as seeking to deny that Greeks are Europeans at all but some kind of sub-grouping of their own in combination with — guess who? — right, with the Turks.  Ever since reading Dienekes branch off in that direction must be about a year, year-and-a-half ago now, I for one have completely stopped reading his blog which previously I read almost daily for years.

Don’t be so quick to take offense or you’ll tempt guys like me to really skewer you on the dagoe thing just to give you something to complain about.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 28, 2010, 12:26 PM | #

“namely the Arthur-Kemp-style notion” (—my comment)

Was it Kemp or the other guy, the one Silver always complains about, I forget his name?  The guy who likes nords.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 28, 2010, 12:29 PM | #

Just to be clear, what prompted that wounded outburst from Uh was the following in GW’s comment, which as I said didn’t mean what Uh hastily took it to mean:

“and Dienekes Pontikos, with his less than Athenian antecedents”

Posted by Dasein on July 28, 2010, 12:33 PM | #

GW,

I think what you describe is the much greater and more immediate danger than the British losing their majority status.  Even if they weren’t born with it, like the aforementioned were (although I still have questions about Sailer), the odds of becoming compromised are increasing.  I know many salt of the earth types in Britain, and when I sometimes look through their Facebook albums, I’ll see photo after photo of whites, often at football matches, and then suddenly it will be a cousin who’s recently married an Asian, or it’s them in a drunken embrace with some negro in a pub.  I know from being around them that they’ll still make ethnic jokes and tease the non-whites who are in the group, and if they’re drunk enough they might say what they really think (though it might stall at ‘radical Islam’), but they’re on the way to losing their identity.  It will be harder still for their children to recapture it (and some will be disqualified from birth).  Halting that process is perhaps more daunting than the mass repatriation that will be required to prevent the disintegration of the English, for which it is a likely prerequisite.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 28, 2010, 12:39 PM | #

Look at me, I’m part-Jewish and have taken my share of attacks for it, do you see me hanging my head down and moping or being super-sensitive and quick to take offense at imagined slights?  Be a man for crying out loud, can’t you?  (Thank God I’m not a dagoe though, I have to say!)

Posted by Guessedworker on July 28, 2010, 02:49 PM | #

Dasein, it’s one of the three manifestations of deracination (adoption of pro-replacement ideology, genetic dillution, transference of genetic interest), but it’s also the one we can reverse.

Posted by PF on July 28, 2010, 03:13 PM | #

Interesting conundrum that uh poses. Very honest of him to say what he feels, of course as well.

What do you guys think about what uh said?

Posted by notuswind on July 28, 2010, 03:31 PM | #

PF,

What do you guys think about what uh said?

I think that he’s just trying to hold other people responsible for his own insecurities.  Consider the following sentence of his for a moment:

Continue to withhold your full embrace (which isn’t to mean replacing Pakis with Greeks or the like), from no noble motive, and we will continue to withhold ours, from spite.

What could this little bit of rhetoric possibly mean?  I invite him to explain himself in more detail on this regard.

My guess is that the tension that people like uh (and possibly Silver) feel is that any kind of nationalist movement amongst the European peoples will come with it a certain aesthetic of Whiteness that they aren’t entirely comfortable with for the simple reason that some Mediterranean types have a slightly darker complexion.  Is it possible that some things are only skin deep.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 28, 2010, 04:40 PM | #

”What do you guys think about what uh said?” (—PF)

I think it’s crap, it’s one hundred percent illegitimate, it’s inferior, it’s stupid, it’s weak, it’s …. dagoe-like, in brief.

(Gonna really start giving the guy something to complain about now .... he asked for it)

Posted by uh on July 28, 2010, 05:23 PM | #

I think that he’s just trying to hold other people responsible for his own insecurities.

I think you want to see insecurities ... which is the usual response to any breath of self-defense (not that I am defending myself, here) from we southern types. We’ve all been upset by the spectacle of Greeks, Armenians or Italians turning vindictive in shallow, fitful attempts to right the imbalance, I reiterate, caused by Northern grandstanding. We’re all sick of Silver’s wisecracks. Guessedworker wants us to be the ones to pull ourselves out of the moral murk and go running to his kind, to nordic messianism, heedless of insults flung in our faces and, more sinisterly, an implicit and unshakable degradation in the literal sense. But if you northern types are superior, shouldn’t it be you to overcome yourselves? Of course all this prescriptive moralizing has absolutely no real-world application, and I hurry to inform you that I care for neither camp, in the ideal sense. The question is this: Should I, Silver, Draco (was that that fool’s name?), whoever, feel guilty and inferior because we cannot most enthusiastically join in the cheerleading for Northern Europe? I know we’re not exactly humanists, but isn’t this beneath you at least, GW. Why do you presume it is we who are at fault because we’re not more comfortable being untrue to ourselves? (Insert here some abstruse business about essence and Being from your Black Forest magi, perhaps!) could it be your presumption (in this instance quite “British") and not Jewish malfeisance to blame? I detect a fault-line in your reasoning here, which for an idiot like me, and a genius like you, is very rare; you seem to have inserted Jews to get around other considerations. 

What could this little bit of rhetoric possibly mean?  I invite him to explain himself in more detail on this regard.

No problem. I mean, very simply, that modern nationalists of north-european extraction (often far less valuable racially / aesthetically than they imagine, or is reflected in the worship of faceless population percentages) allow themselves to act, at times, without chivalry or respect when regarding those of southern or mixed extraction. The only occasions on which a Briton rises to human feeling for an Italian is when an expat is stumbling through a basic sentence to buy some tomatoes or when Italian youths drive some dumb luckless African migrants out of their mountain town. I venture the proposition that modern nationalist thinking, even the higher variety on offer here, is inferior in this respect to German nationalism of yore, in which I’ve detected very little disdain for southerners. That doesn’t mean Nazis weren’t talking about shiftless Italians and shady Greeks as they unbuttoned their trousers and sat down to mineral water & rye bread, only that it wasn’t an “issue” in the manner obtaining here, certainly not in the ethnographic literature. And it obtains here NOT, as GW claims, because Jews have driven a mysterious wedge between us (care to demonstrate that, bro?), NOT because we Italians & c. are soooooo insecure, but solely through the careless bigoted literary efforts of men like Kemp, D.S. [removed], Grant, H.S. Chamberlain and others, most of whom are decent and uplifting reads, and through the awful kitsch of “nordic imagery” and sentimentality which seems to make anyone from a non-Catholic country an asshole about everyone else on the planet, and even those from Catholic countries pretend they’re Celts or Visigoths to escape being what they are. Don’t imagine my feelings are hurt when I read Chamberlain on das Völkerchaos of Rome, or am made to suffer through the endless “northern” imagery in which everyone in this thing of ours indulges. I’m offended by the tackiness of it, not my exclusion. For all that I see signs of healthy, sane, man-to-man appreciation of Italian nationalism among British nationalists of the B&H;type, even if that is owing to the diffusion of British skinhead imagery across Europe. It’s all just too easy to sit at home and tell oneself those Greeks are so dark, what ever shall we do with them once Europe is in our hands? White Nationalist presumption is a headache, I know.

My guess is that the tension that people like uh (and possibly Silver) feel is that any kind of nationalist movement amongst the European peoples will come with it a certain aesthetic of Whiteness that they aren’t entirely comfortable with

Well, I’m confident that reality is operating as it ought, and nationalist movements among the European peoples are mostly happening within their own borders, so there’s no chance we’d pollute the northerners’ graces or their precious “certain aesthetic of Whiteness”. I leave you to your tacky photos of blond girls (whom few of us can have) and Brekker statues (which few of us resemble). My only resentment is that I’m stuck being American for the rest of my life!

Posted by PF on July 28, 2010, 05:29 PM | #

Uh,

I sometimes feel the way you mentioned that you feel, when I am among Scandinavians. British people have a Celtic strain, along with the Germanic, which makes us ‘nordic’ but in a different way than the Scandinavians. There is such a uniformity in their looks, it is of course very appealing and striking. But the British have this weirder other influence, which I’ve learned to watch for and cherish. At any rate, I can tell the difference, though it is composed of subtleties.

Maybe there is a critique implicit in what you’ve written for nationalism - I’m not sure. In the end we look how we look and want to preserve it.

What I disagree with about Silver’s take on this - and he mentioned the same feelings - is that I dont understand why one cannot develop enough feeling for one’s own derived peoples to at least be able to accept oneself and one’s belonging to them. As an example...you’re Italian, partly. Whether or not I’m into that, or wish to be, there is so much to get excited about with respect to Italy and that people. Why would one wish for the acceptance of a group of Englishmen, if that is not where you’re bread is buttered anyway?

People don’t understand that the Latin countries and southern countries have their own Being, their own racism, their own exclusiveness, to which we are not a party. They are not some racial septic tank which middle eastern inflow has ruined. That is such an abusive understanding, but Silver was saying as much, and his problem with White Nationalism is really this problem with the implications of his own understanding.

Some people remain under the spell of blonde hair and social order, which is amazing to me. Europe is viewed as a gradient, with it getting progressively worse. I don’t understand that people lack the imagination to see the good of southern Europe. There is trash in the streets, but people regularly stay up all night eating with one another and listening to music. There is a refinement of sensibility which has taken place over centuries, and expresses itself in music, fashion, cuisine, architecture, poetry, and the actions of the people themselves which are often a kind of living drama that is awesome to behold. Once you have lived in the Deep North, you will appreciate that this refinement of sensibility has not taken place there.

Since we all have this different Being, each people, each nation, we have to each accept what is good and bad about it. I accept the glowering Englishman sitting in the pub, i.e. I accept the emotional constriction that runs across northern latitudes and keeps people socializing stupidly, living lives that to me appear boring, never even dipping into ‘drama’ for excitement, but just getting drunk in a desperate attempt to be able to finally express themselves. (Being more honest I would have to accept a North American example since I haven’t lived in England since forever… I accept the North American white playing video games...)

Living in the South you have to accept arguments, passionate accusations, things said in a huff, even death threats from women whom you’ve wronged. This has a beauty to me, as I have experienced it in cinema and literature, that you will never find north of Switzerland.

There is a reason for Italian Being, however it is manifest. No one is short-changed, and each person can find in himself the experience of being with his people, and find a way in which it intimately makes sense with who he is. If one fails to do this, to make one’s peace with one’s people(s), there is no peace for him living amongst foreigners. You have to try try again, if you fail to do this. You have to understand and feel that you are part of a nation, of a larger being, then you can cease wanting ‘the full embrace’ of foreigners (to you) such as nords. Sorry if that is very preachy and condescending.

Posted by uh on July 28, 2010, 05:37 PM | #

(Gonna really start giving the guy something to complain about now .... he asked for it)

Didn’t you give this up a few months ago? couldn’t stay away?

I may be misreading GW, but you’ve definitely misread me: I don’t take exception with “less than Athenian antecedents.” That would be absurd, for obviously the Athenians were distinct from the Greek masses, ancient and modern. Probably not so distinct as some like to believe, however.

Have I misunderstood? Fuck, I hope not. LOL. Seemed to me he was at least SUGGESTING that Jews have something to do with his “fatal withholding”. If you meant rather to compare, fine, but one point stands: there is reason in the withholding. We can’t get behind a standard that militates against who we are. That’s multicult in itself.

Posted by PF on July 28, 2010, 05:58 PM | #

This was my experience of living in Germany, BTW.

I went there thinking about how well ordered things were, how much they had retained of the past, how noble it was to take a stand for European man’s existence (in the old days thats how I saw it). Naturally I also thought of how attractive the chicks were - which is a physiognomy thing. I was also very ashamed about the way that Anglo countries had abdicated their lands to foreigners; I was so ashamed at realizing the state of Anglo culture that many years ago I thought about assimilating there.

I left realizing that there is a reason why I’m not german, besides the fact of me being not german. In other words, part of my Being aligns with my actual nationality and blood which is mostly British . The linear nature of their way of thinking and interface with reality, is murder to me. The British are oblique, as Dan Dare pointed out.

After a while, realizing that british weirdness, eccentricity and mystery would never ‘pop up’ there as they had manifest in my life growing up, and realizing that I would encounter that same linear sensibility again and again and again and again forever - and realizing that this sensibility could never really laugh or cease to take things seriously, that all mandates issued from the prison of socially-sourced consensus and that was why it was so well-behaved and orderly, I got the fuck outta there.

I am a fiend for British and American nonsense and adventurism and weirdness. My pedigree would tell you as much, but at 18 I was in strict denial of all this. My point is not that I made the right decision (hint: I did) or that this analyses, which is verified in my feelings, is going to pass muster for everyone else in the blogosphere (of course we all have different ideas of what the descriptive terms I used above actually mean - and thus the difference in sensibility has already begun!)- since everyone who reads this will experience life differently. My point is that at long last, just like in Kipling’s the Jungle Book, I found out that I was a Man, regardless of how cool the Bears and Monkeys are. I believe that mens’ pedigrees make a kind of sense that might not be congruent with who they, in the ego dreams of youth, would wish to will themselves to be able to become - but mens’ pedigrees make sense with the person who they ultimately realize that they are. Making sense?

Posted by uh on July 28, 2010, 06:15 PM | #

Hey PF,

That’s an extraordinarily beautiful post, man, and I have to thank you for it. As Emerson said: “ .... to-morrow a stranger will say with masterly good sense precisely what we have thought and felt all the time, and we shall be forced to take with shame our own opinion from another.”

As I agree with you, there’s not much I can add but chirping assent to each point. I would say that the more picturesque aspects of Southern life are dying off or become unrecognizably modernized. But if the Spaniards do still stay up late, drink wine and play music, thank God for it. I’ve been invited to Italian and French homes, but never Swiss or German homes. So maybe that moral gradient isn’t in danger.

In the end we look how we look and want to preserve it.

Amen.

Why would one wish for the acceptance of a group of Englishmen, if that is not where you’re bread is buttered anyway?

If you’re really asking me, or implying that I’ve sought such acceptance, I answer that it’s my own racial dilemma of being mezz’ a mezz’ Italian & English. Being American, language is English, and I cherish good English style above most things; this is a direct legacy of my English side, not affectation or foreigner’s chauvinism. Yet I just am NOT English at all. It’s a weird consciousness to carry about—being this yet not, wanting to be that and being the other.

They are not some racial septic tank which middle eastern inflow has ruined. That is such an abusive understanding, but Silver was saying as much,

Yes, he’s gone so far in his “cheek” that he seems to really believe that characterization, well put by the way. Obviously GW was not being abusive, and never has been, nor do I scan MR for that sort of thing or care when it does come up, but there is a presumption in calling those bloggers “fatal withholders” and back-sliders; for my part, I was never on board with nordomania. I was a quite heartfelt teutonophile and I’m glad to be past it, which experience of disillusionment we seem to share. This hasn’t turned me against a Europe of the majorities, I only wish the division weren’t always laid at the southerner’s door. The northerner (and especially the Briton) always feigns innocence and magnanimity. If a Frenchman, anytime, anywhere, happened to turn around on a battlefield to save his skin, the French shall forever enjoy a reputation for being cowards—while the Germans, who have also fled and surrendered their share, keep up this ludicrous delusion that “das Reich hat nie kapituliert!”. I’m sure you know all about that. So what I’m getting at here is northern presumption. Anyway, you handled this with very laudable gentleness and refinement of sense.

Living in the South you have to accept arguments, passionate accusations, things said in a huff, even death threats from women whom you’ve wronged. This has a beauty to me, as I have experienced it in cinema and literature, that you will never find north of Switzerland.

If only there were still such women!

If one fails to do this, to make one’s peace with one’s people(s), there is no peace for him living amongst foreigners. You have to try try again, if you fail to do this. You have to understand and feel that you are part of a nation, of a larger being, then you can cease wanting ‘the full embrace’ of foreigners (to you) such as nords. Sorry if that is very preachy and condescending.

If it is preachy, it is in the way Emerson is preachy: full of uplifting good sense. I’ll confess that lately I’m taking more of an interest in Italy. I can’t make it anywhere else. Living in France showed me the wisdom of living among people who can look the other way on certain things. Sorry to be so personal, I know it isn’t the custom here. There is truly no peace among foreigners—Americans, British, Germans: all “welsc” to me. Let’s hope the South stops drinking beer and watching football someday.

Posted by notuswind on July 28, 2010, 06:26 PM | #

uh,

While I sincerely appreciate your sense of humor (White massa, Brekker statues, etc.) I must once again invite you to explain the following in more detail:

Continue to withhold your full embrace (which isn’t to mean replacing Pakis with Greeks or the like), from no noble motive, and we will continue to withhold ours, from spite.

More to the point, who is withholding their embrace from you?  I am curious to know if there is anything more specific behind this comment of yours.

PF,

Some really beautiful comments your part.  I appreciated them.

Posted by uh on July 28, 2010, 06:29 PM | #

I believe that mens’ pedigrees make a kind of sense that might not be congruent with who they, in the ego dreams of youth, would wish to will themselves to be able to become - but mens’ pedigrees make sense with the person who they ultimately realize that they are. Making sense?

Perfectly.

Good to know what exactly turned you away. I never spent much time there, but was turned off to it largely by interaction with Germans abroad. To crib from a friend, they made my skin crawl. Alex Linder has written about this phenomenon too: though he loved his time there he was constantly reminded that he is not German. There’s a self-involvement in Germany that goes far beyond the British.

I do know this sort of thing already, but you see, my circumstances haven’t yet caught up.

One thing I’ve never been guilty of is coveting German or Nordic women. I’ve been sufficiently, instinctively “aligned with my Being” enough since youth that I lose my mind over a good Mediterranean or French type—or Jewish girls, per CC—and sure, am capable of flights of fancy when confronted with northern beauty, but in the main I wouldn’t choose it out of respect for my type. It is not me, therefore: not mine.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 28, 2010, 06:31 PM | #

Uh reads just like Silver, word-for-word.  Amazing.  As for the “nordomania” of MR.com, I’ve never seen hide nor hair of it.  And as for what it was in GW’s short, innocent little post that got “Uh” so pissed off, I just went back and re-read it and can’t fathom what it was.  No matter:  Uh turns out to be a weak, complexé, med cry baby.

Posted by uh on July 28, 2010, 06:35 PM | #

notus,

More to the point, who is withholding their embrace from you?  I am curious to know if there is anything more specific behind this comment of yours.

Probably, but I was talking about those who continue to lay the blame for any division at the southerner’s door alone. Look to yourselves first, I say to them. Believe me, no one wants Britain cleansed of non-Europeans more than me: maybe then they’ll stop colonizing the European countryside.

Posted by uh on July 28, 2010, 06:37 PM | #

Scroob,

I don’t think GW will take anything I’ve said for being pissed off. I also said I haven’t seen any real anti-Med sentiments at MR; most of you are above that, and I recognize it. I am not, have never been, your med cry baby. Now STFU, Jewboy!

Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 28, 2010, 06:41 PM | #

Before, he just sounded exactly like Silver, now it’s exactly like Friedrich Braun!  And to think this is the tough-sounding guy who penned that take-down piece on Hoffmeister!  Will wonders never cease!

Posted by PF on July 28, 2010, 06:52 PM | #

Uh,

If you’re really asking me, or implying that I’ve sought such acceptance, I answer that it’s my own racial dilemma of being mezz’ a mezz’ Italian & English. Being American, language is English, and I cherish good English style above most things; this is a direct legacy of my English side, not affectation or foreigner’s chauvinism. Yet I just am NOT English at all. It’s a weird consciousness to carry about—being this yet not, wanting to be that and being the other.

English culture/society and connecting with it is a tough pony to ride, even for Englishmen. Be born just a few feet outside the circle, and you’re well-nigh condemned to modified outsider status. No matter if your handsome, British-looking and have a british passport (well I guess everyone has the latter nowadays) and droves of family members, one can but cyclically re-experience the fact that it makes primordial sense for English outflow to go to our country, and not for us to return to theirs. This must be the meaning of the word ‘insular’. I have accepted this as a fact of life.

I only wish the division weren’t always laid at the southerner’s door. The northerner (and especially the Briton) always feigns innocence and magnanimity. If a Frenchman, anytime, anywhere, happened to turn around on a battlefield to save his skin, the French shall forever enjoy a reputation for being cowards—while the Germans, who have also fled and surrendered their share, keep up this ludicrous delusion that “das Reich hat nie kapituliert!”. I’m sure you know all about that. So what I’m getting at here is northern presumption.

Perhaps, but I mostly just ignore this stuff. People trying to think in categories - good luck to them. I think the attempt to box-in swathes of people is bound to end superficially, giving no real experience of them.

If only there were still such women!

Oh, I think these women still have the primordial characteristics that have always made them attractive. Its a lie to say that northern guys aren’t attracted to southern chicks, this is famously the case and is documented all over literature (Byrons affairs with greek and italian women for example). If I found out tommorow that I was half Italian, it would open up the board for me to do things I dont currently give myself permission to do.

Art is always hit-or-miss but one example comes to mind of the sensuality of italian sensibility, something I recently watched: Bertolucci’s The Conformist. Stefanie Sandrelli in that role is something you have to experience. I’m going to stop talking before I fog up the comments box here or make mad my other nordic WNs, but there are scenes in that movie that a nordic woman simply couldnt do. There are limits to the erotic self-expression which a nordic woman is capable/willing to do, probably having to do with our emotional constriction, the same thing that has their fathers sitting around in pubs, glowering.

Sorry to be so personal, I know it isn’t the custom here. There is truly no peace among foreigners—Americans, British, Germans: all “welsc” to me. Let’s hope the South stops drinking beer and watching football someday.

Many if not most participants on blogs use theoretical discussions as proxies for what really matters - the personal. If you talk directly about what matters, you will arrive at the conclusions you seek much more quickly than if you had veiled all this as some sort of speculative thesis.

Posted by Dan Dare on July 28, 2010, 07:33 PM | #

Kennst du das Land, wo die Citronen blühn,
Im dunkeln Laub die Gold-Orangen glühn,
Ein sanfter Wind vom blauen Himmel weht,
Die Myrte still und hoch der Lorbeer steht?
Kennst du es wohl?
Dahin! dahin
Möcht ich mit dir, o mein Geliebter, ziehn.

A quite well-known Northener’s paean to the south.

As a corrective salve for the raw feelings exposed here I would like to recommend two televisual feasts, both narrated by Englishmen, one of which extolls the achievements of the North, and the other those of the South. Far better of course to look up the DVDs themselves than these miserably inferior Youtube renditions.

It is quite feasible to cherish lands in which beer, schnapps, herring and Vermeer are prized, as well as those where wine, olives and Caravaggio are at home. How fortunate we are as Europeans to be able to lay claim to both.

Posted by PF on July 28, 2010, 08:01 PM | #

Is there a ‘re-word that more discretely’ button that I can click on to amend my last post?

guess not.

anyway thanks Dan Dare for putting a poetic touch on things.

Posted by Guessedworker on July 28, 2010, 08:21 PM | #

Well, I’ll clarify and expand on what I wrote before, and we’ll see what that does for Uh (who I still beseech to come up with a better handle).

1.  We are exquisitely aware of our particular ethnicity, however complex it may be.  Every mongrel knows who his brother is ... and is not.  There is no confusion.

2. The distressing element here is that nationalistically inclined but, nevertheless, “complex” or “different” people living in the ancestral homeland of a given ethnic group to which they do not entirely belong but whose preservation one might expect them to support, react to their sense - and, often, mere perception - of exclusion with a force that overwhelms political conviction.

First moral lesson: genetic interest trumps political interest.

Second moral lesson: Hatred among European peoples is closer to the heart than love.

Posted by Leon Haller on July 29, 2010, 10:26 AM | #

This has degenerated into a really weird discussion. Let’s keep it together, shall we? I’m beginning to understand why the (brainwashed) mainstream is so contemptuous of the Racial Right. We simply cannot leave well enough alone!

Obviously, biology teaches that the organic world is messy. There usually are not fixed boundaries, only shaded ones. Swedes and Ibo are clearly distinct, but where do Arabs fit in? Some are basically Negroid, but others (some of whom I have known) are indistinguishable from Mediterranean whites. So how to classify for purposes of drawing friend/enemy distinctions? We do so on the basis of culture, psychological affinity, historical context, metaphysical congruence. Thus, today, I would classify an Arab Christian who looks Mediterranean white, and feels closer to European culture than to the Arab/Islamic world, as “allowable white”. On the other hand, if an Arab is basically Negroid, or worships Allah, then he is not one of us.

Is this taxonomy perfect? Of course not. But hewing to it would allow us to get on with our real work (see my comments above).

Posted by uh on July 29, 2010, 05:19 PM | #

GW: Fair enough.

Posted by Hume on July 30, 2010, 02:31 AM | #

Razib Kahn should stick with what he knows best:  writing on interracial pornography

Posted by Gudmund on July 30, 2010, 03:55 AM | #

Some are basically Negroid, but others (some of whom I have known) are indistinguishable from Mediterranean whites.
>Leon Haller

Unfortunately, thanks to what happened during the Islamic high culture (to wit: the largest slave trade in history), the Arabs brought millions of Negroids into their countries and assimilated them.  There are virtually no Arabs today who do not have some Negroid ancestry, in much the same way there are few Jews who do not have some Aryan ancestry.  Genetics have confirmed this and if I can dig up the genetic study I have saved on my blog I’d be happy to post it for those who are skeptics.  But, unlike many here, I don’t just rely on what scientists say about the matter, I also rely on the evidence of my senses and what my eyes tell me is that Arabs are mulattos (note: mulatto does not refer just to halfbreeds but to anyone who is of mixed African and Caucasian heritage).

It is important not to harbor delusions about who is and is not ‘the Other’ - I for one take pride in what we are as a race and do not desire that to be altered through admixture, which, contrary to the claims of many, was never a trend in Europe or any white colony until the 20th century.

Posted by Leon Haller on July 30, 2010, 09:43 AM | #

I stand by my comments re the Arabs. Most are non-white racially, as I stated. But I have known some who are every bit as visibly white/Caucasoid as some Spaniards and Greeks I have known. If they are Christian, then Europeans should find them racially acceptable ("our list of allies grows thin”, said the elf-lord). On the other hand, though the Syrian Assads could pass for Southern European, they are Muslim, and hence racial enemies.

Posted by Recent comments by invasive subcon razib khan on August 09, 2010, 07:15 PM | #

See this thread

Razib Khan said… August 8, 2010 9:29 AM

I’ve fucked tons of white girls, including many blondes.

Razib Khan said… August 8, 2010 11:21 PM

Mark,

Nope, not lying and definitely not paying for it. I plan on marrying any woman I damn well please. Maybe it’ll be one of your female relations, in which case you won’t do anything about it aside from whine on the internet.

n/a,

You get no girls.

Razib Khan said… August 9, 2010 6:29 PM

Mark,

“Internet celebrity” has its benefits. It certainly pays more sexual dividends than what you’re relegated to: social invisibility in real life and anonymity on the internet.

But what are you going to do about it? What can you do about it, besides type away at your keyboard and whine like a little bitch? Nothing. Because you’re a pussy.

Posted by Tom on August 11, 2010, 02:44 PM | #

From email:

The anti-white macaca Razib Khan is now blogging at Discover Magazine

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/author/rkhan/

Make sure to leave some nice comments....don’t forget to mention his obsession with interracial porn

Dave

From recent discussion at blog “race/history/evolution/ notes”

Razib Khan said… August 8, 2010 9:29 AM

“I’ve fu**ed tons of white girls, including many blondes.”

“Nope, not lying and definitely not paying for it. I plan on marrying any woman I damn well please. Maybe it’ll be one of your female relations, in which case you won’t do anything about it aside from whine on the internet.”

“"Internet celebrity” has its benefits. It certainly pays more sexual dividends than what you’re relegated to: social invisibility in real life and anonymity on the internet.

But what are you going to do about it? What can you do about it, besides type away at your keyboard and whine like a little bitch? Nothing. Because you’re a pussy.”

“No, sorry but I’m sure I’ve fucked more white girls, including blondes, than you have and ever will. And of much better quality, too. And I’ll continue doing so while you, um, type away and post about Carleton Coon or something for all six of your readers.

Tough guy act? What tough guy act? There’s no need for it when I’m just addressing an anonymous, cowardly, virginal pussy who doesn’t even have the balls to put his name and face out there.”

“Since I get more and better quality white girls, including blondes, than you do, why would I have an “Omar Thornton moment”? If I ever do, it’ll be after an anonymous, cowardly, virginal pussy like you grows the balls to put your name and face out there.”

...