Race realism is just around the corner.

Posted by rustymason on October 13, 2006, 11:56 AM | #

The optimism of those who believe that science will cure the ills of society seems unbounded, and is, of course, completely unwarranted. 

Anti-racialists already know that race exists, of course, we see that in their own personal behavior all the time.  The current problem is not that we don’t have enough facts, but that many people believe that race should not exist.  They will only use more facts to do what they always do, to justify their desires and crazy belief system.  Don’t be surprised when the Chosen Ones and their emotionally unstable White lackeys use the new genetic facts to justify more race-mixing.

Posted by James Bowery on October 13, 2006, 04:25 PM | #

It is one thing to have the genothype data and quite another to understand its potential phenotypes under various environmental conditions.

Nowhere is this more pronounced than with people like northern Europeans who are genetically prone to take on their moral imprints as though genetically coded for them.  People frequently deride the northern European tendency toward leftism, political correctness, ethnic suicide, etc. but it is pretty clearly an environmental trigger—indoctrination—that expresses this phenotypic potential.

I have little doubt that there are far more subtle environmental influences to understand that will render it exceedingly difficult to pick out—say—genes for individualism which also seem present in northern Europeans to a high degree.  If, as appears to be happening, the genetic and memetic correlation structures are destroyed by mixing at the precise time in history when the genetic data come to light, the hopeful outcome sought by transhumanists will remain out of reach.

PS: Indoctrinating such indoctrinable people against their genetic predisposition toward individualism is a kind of genocide since it attacks the foundation of their national character.

Posted by Nick Tamiroff on October 14, 2006, 06:57 AM | #

Does this mean that the present PC crap “wez all be ekeqall” will finally be dismissed,or just re-affirm that our genetic code matches a carrot to the tune of92.4%,a monkey to 99.1%,or a Negroid to 99.8%? The summation,whatever the findings,will be veiled in so much bull-shit,political correctness,and obfuscation,that only Bowery could make sense of it-hopefully,he’ll decipher it ,and pass it along to the great unwashed.  Mr.Bowery-this is not a ding at you-I’ve started to read some of your publications,and am duly impressed.Regards,sir.

Posted by Nick Tamiroff on October 14, 2006, 07:15 AM | #

My wife and I are CSI program followers,And I commented just last night-since a baby cannot leave the hospital without a SSN,why not make a mandatory DNA sample requirement.Placed in a data base,it would in the future preclude innocents from incarceration,and the guilty more easily identifiable.The RFID approach seems somewhat invasive,but a DNA plot is no more than most of us over 55 went thru in school-wide finger printing.I would like to hear the thoughts of MR posters {ACLU believers excepted}Thanks-not really off-subject.

Posted by rustymason on October 17, 2006, 08:56 PM | #

Take mandatory DNA samples and put them into a database so the government can continue to protect us?  Is this the same Mr. Nick T. who has complained in the past about evil big government?  Turn off the Talmud-Vision, Nick.

Posted by Nick Tamiroff on October 20, 2006, 04:57 AM | #

Rusty-Yeah,I was sort of exceeding my own base beliefs,but when you read of women and children raped and murdered,but not caught for years later[after MORE RAPES AND MURDERS],it makes one think that some reliable way of I.D.ing crime perpertrators is called for -My fingerprints have been on file with the FBI since second grade{1946],and has saved my young butt several times in my teenage years.Besides,if it’s something the ACLU is against-can it be that bad?I also believe-NO PICTURE ID_NO VOTE! In jail,or a convicted felon-NO VOTE;drivers licenses for illegals-NO.citizenship listed on other ID-YES. Maybe I’m just watching too much CSI-Cheers{and no offence taken] Nick T

Posted by Al Ross on October 20, 2006, 07:43 AM | #

Perhaps Nick would support mandatory DNA tests for the two groups which cause the most violent crime, Blacks and Latinos? I know I would.

Posted by Nick Tamiroff on October 20, 2006, 10:25 PM | #

Definately Al,but THAT would NEVER fly-the ACLU,NAACP,LARAZA,et.al.,along with the 9th Circuit Court,would never allow it to happen.All I was trying to say is that databases are generally innocuous,unless provided with an input,unlike the contemplated RFID.Just think of the lives that have been destroyed because of faulty/vindictive “witnesses"-if a simple comparison of DNA could result in a primary finding,the only ones who lose are the friggen lawyers.Several States are now doing DNA on most convicted criminals,and in the case of Alabama,has found that 80% of rapists had DNA obtained from prior burglerys.Of course,my hypothesis would only work for those born in the US,not the drug-smuggling,gang raping,pederasts who illegally enter our country--BUT,I have an answer to that-Sweep the streets-if someone does not have a SSN and is unable to recite the ABC’s in ENGLISH-load them into a bus for the nearest border. [Or bettor yet-"lose" them on the way-minimizes re-rentrys]

Posted by Jason Wong on October 22, 2006, 03:45 AM | #

“The optimism of those who believe that science will cure the ills of society seems unbounded, and is, of course, completely unwarranted. 

Anti-racialists already know that race exists, of course, we see that in their own personal behavior all the time.  The current problem is not that we don’t have enough facts, but that many people believe that race should not exist.”

Ahhh, my naive goy, the problem is that the goyim have voluntary servitude genes, not “I want to think for myself” genes.  They don’t care what science tells them, they only care what their demigods tell them.  In England, if all the science actually showed that all races were equal, but Tony Blair came on tv and told his flock that science does not matter, because it’s an absolute truth that Aryans are the Master Race, then all your goy would be flying Swastika flags.  So, the trick is for you to put a part of your paycheck aside each week to save up to buy off the English mass media and then show yourself to be the new demigod and tell your flock to follow your racial ways.  But that is not enough: you will also have to elect your friends into parlament and prime minister position as well.  Wear nice suits, flash around your power, and throw in a little “God has chosen me to lead you,” and then you will have success.

Posted by Al Ross on October 22, 2006, 04:40 AM | #

Unless Jason Wong’s surname is racially misleading he is a member of the race whose country bought the Jews’ Communism lie wholesale, thus earning themselves the unenviable soubriquet of ‘yellow goyim’. Not content with that , the stupid Chinese attempted to re-export the Jewish political plague to countries like Malaya, in which attempt they were, of course, defeated. But dont worry, Mr Wong, China’s belated emulation of White, Western industrial capitalism will provide your poor motherland with some relief, even if the necessary innovative skills are somewhat lacking in your race.

Posted by Jason Wong on October 22, 2006, 05:11 AM | #

“Unless Jason Wong’s surname is racially misleading he is a member of the race whose country bought the Jews’ Communism lie wholesale, thus earning themselves the unenviable soubriquet of ‘yellow goyim’. Not content with that , the stupid Chinese attempted to re-export the Jewish political plague to countries like Malaya, in which attempt they were, of course, defeated. But dont worry, Mr Wong, China’s belated emulation of White, Western industrial capitalism will provide your poor motherland with some relief, even if the necessary innovative skills are somewhat lacking in your race.”

1 billion yellers coming home from work just so that they can play Play-Station 2.  Pretty sad, ain’t it?

Posted by Jason Wong on October 22, 2006, 05:37 AM | #

“Mr Wong, China’s belated emulation of White, Western industrial capitalism will provide your poor motherland with some relief”

But Industrial capitalism was not created by the White race, it was create by a few White elites, not the white race.  Then the rest of the Whites just copied what the elites invented, just like the Chinese copied it.  So if anyone deserves praise, it’s not the White race, but rather the small handful of White elites who invent everything.

Posted by Al Ross on October 22, 2006, 05:51 AM | #

At the time of Capitalism’s rise in UK it was driven by the Industrial Revolution’s heroes, men like Watt and Stephenson who were certainly not part of the elite. That aristocratic section of society, personified by peers like Curzon and Dalhousie, were busy ruling large parts of Asia and their participation in the Industrial Revolution was probably limited to the fortuitous discovery of coal deposits on their ancestral land.

Posted by Jason Wong on October 22, 2006, 06:03 AM | #

“At the time of Capitalism’s rise in UK it was driven by the Industrial Revolution’s heroes, men like Watt and Stephenson who were certainly not part of the elite.”

Perhaps not part of the financial elite, but when I say elite, I refer to the intellectual elites.  The formulation of the principles of capitalism, the mathematical models that define the dynamics, and so forth: it was the intellectual elites that create these things: the rest then are preached to about these new ideas.  The only purpose of the common folk is to be the cannon fodder to bring to fruition the dreams of the elite.  In other words, you take away the top 5% IQ range of the White race, then the 95% remaining will become cavemen.  No cars, planes, medicines, internet/computers, chemicals, buildings, sodas (which require chemical synthesis by high IQ chemists), and so forth.  It’s back to hunting and gathering.  This is the proper yardstick by which to judge the white race.  The race is defined by the majority, not by a tiny minority.

Posted by nutrament on October 22, 2006, 09:30 AM | #

“But Industrial capitalism was not created by the White race, it was create by a few White elites, not the white race.  Then the rest of the Whites just copied what the elites invented, just like the Chinese copied it.  So if anyone deserves praise, it’s not the White race, but rather the small handful of White elites who invent everything.”

“The White Race” and “The White (intellectual) Elites” are not two separate races or species.  Many of the great White geniuses in human history had humble origins.  That is, they originated from the masses, from the “White Race” upon which you heap scorn.

I saw the same debating “technique” in some anti-racist book, years ago.  The author claimed that the average white American had no right to claim any sort of kinship to great (white) men in history, because white Americans are descended from European farmers just like black Americans are descended from African farmers.

Putting aside the questionable assertion of developed agriculture in sub-Saharan Africa, the “argument” is absurd. 
There was, in Europe, no intricate caste system as in South Asia; there was not a “elite inventing caste” and a “dumb farming caste.” There was, of course, an inter-marrying aristocracy, but these were not particularly noted for invention, were they?

“In other words, you take away the top 5% IQ range of the White race, then the 95% remaining will become cavemen.  No cars, planes, medicines, internet/computers, chemicals, buildings, sodas (which require chemical synthesis by high IQ chemists), and so forth.  It’s back to hunting and gathering.  This is the proper yardstick by which to judge the white race.  The race is defined by the majority, not by a tiny minority.”

The same can be said of any other race, but, of course, not all races possess the same potential to produce high-IQ inventors, etc.  The race is defined by *both* the majority and the minority, a race is judged in its totality.

Posted by Jason Wong on October 22, 2006, 10:52 AM | #

[The White Race” and “The White (intellectual) Elites” are not two separate races or species.]

They can be defined as two separate species, since one of the requirements for two types of organisms to be considered the same species is that they must freely mate in their natural habitat.  But, for the most part, the intellectual elites do not interbreed with common or below common White people.  Today they call this assortive mating.

[Many of the great White geniuses in human history had humble origins.  That is, they originated from the masses, from the “White Race” upon which you heap scorn.]

“Humble” origins?  How are you defining “humble”?  Socio-economic status?  I am defining elite as high genetic intelligence, not wealth.  Based on this definition, the trend is that bright people come from bright parents: IQ has an 80% heritability rate.  So, bright people do not come from the common masses, generally.

Posted by Jason Wong on October 22, 2006, 10:57 AM | #

[The race is defined by *both* the majority and the minority, a race is judged in its totality]

This is like saying that Blacks are an intellectually superior race by pointing out .01 percent of Blacks that have phDs.

A statistically/scientifically based argument would consider the tiny percentage of smart members in either race as having little weight in describing the overall characterizations of a race.

Posted by nutrament on October 22, 2006, 11:16 AM | #

Wong (Or Wrong), the bell curves for whites and blacks are markedly different, regression to the mean is markedly different, so the races in their entirety differ and can be judged as such. 

“This is like saying that Blacks are an intellectually superior race by pointing out .01 percent of Blacks that have phDs.”

Superiority is a *relative* characteristic, is it not?  “Superior” to whom?  If that .01 percent is less than that found in all of the other races, how is that a measure of superiority?  On the other hand, the higher % of PhDs among whites or Asians can be construed as evidence for the intellectual superiority of those races, as such, over blacks.  On the other hand again, your own lack of logic is manifest evidence of inferiority.

Assortative mating - the point to be made is that great white geniuses of history were not, by and large, the result of “assortative mating”, but the result of high-IQ genes present within the white masses.  “Humble origins” mean just that - just because a white person today has succumbed to the lures of a dumbed-down mass society does not mean they do not have a sufficient background of IQ to produce productive, elite, offspring.

A racial society is an organic whole - or should be - with the different subgroups of differing abilities contributing to the well being of all.

We all know where you are going - convince “elite” whites, a la GNXP, that they should eschew their co-racials in favor of genetically and culturally alien “fellow cognitive elitists.” Of course, these non-white “cognitive elitists” will continue to promote their own interests, at white expense.

Concepts of the hiererchical ranking of interests has been discussed on this blog before.  Cognitive elitism is a means to an end, not an end to itself.

Posted by Jason Wong on October 22, 2006, 12:03 PM | #

[Wong (Or Wrong), the bell curves for whites and blacks are markedly different]

Sure.

[regression to the mean is markedly different, so the races in their entirety differ and can be judged as such.]

Regression to the mean is different for each race?  Jensen says there is a 50% regression: offspring of above mean IQ parents regress on average of 50% of the difference between the parent and their respective population median.  Are you saying some races regress at different percentage rates? 

[Assortative mating - the point to be made is that great white geniuses of history were not, by and large, the result of “assortative mating”, but the result of high-IQ genes present within the white masses.]

High IQ alleles are found in much greater concentration among the intellectual elites than the average population, hence it’s high heritability rate of 80%

[A racial society is an organic whole - or should be - with the different subgroups of differing abilities contributing to the well being of all.]

Depends on what you are looking for.  If you prefer a biological hierarchy, then what Whites are today would be just fine.  But I prefer constant upwards evolution of a race as a whole.  I want to see the Bell curve flatten but constantly going higher and higher.  Personality diversity I believe should remain though, aside from the elimination of psychopathology which is purely detrimental.

[We all know where you are going - convince “elite” whites, a la GNXP, that they should eschew their co-racials in favor of genetically and culturally alien “fellow cognitive elitists.” Of course, these non-white “cognitive elitists” will continue to promote their own interests, at white expense.]

Speculation.  I’ve not made my opinion known, except that I believe your current ideological paradigm is flawed.

[Cognitive elitism is a means to an end, not an end to itself.]

I would disagree.  I see the masses as parasites upon the cognitive elites, voting the elites into oblivion [ever since the common folk have been given the right to vote]

Posted by Jason Wong on October 22, 2006, 12:14 PM | #

Though all of your hearts bleed for the common folk, they would find great pleasure in a fate nothing short of public decapitation for each of you.  Ya, ya, I know, it’s all the Jews fault . . .  According to this argument, Whites apparently are so freaking stupid that they absolutely cannot make any decisions whatsoever - a Jew must spoon-feed them regarding every single behavioral act.

Posted by nutrament on October 22, 2006, 12:24 PM | #

Even from a ‘selfish’ elitist standpoint, white (intellectual) elites should be concerned with racial issues, with a strong interest in living in a white society.  If not, this decreases the likelihood that they will a) remain white, b) remain as an elite, and c) live in a culturally compatible society.  Having even an elitist-centered interest in race can, and should, then lead to a broader racial perspective, that encompasses the full range of interests.

Any person who, even after it has been carefully explained to them, cannot understand or accept concepts of ‘fitness’ and the proper ordering of interests is not much of an ‘intellectual elitist’, are they?

Posted by nutrament on October 22, 2006, 12:34 PM | #

“Are you saying some races regress at different percentage rates? “

You continue to demonstrate that you are not a member of your vaunted eite.  No, I am not saying that at all.  The point is that different races regress to a different level; thus, “elites” of different races but matched for IQ would demonstrate regression to different IQ means.  Hence, a strong underlying racial component independent of the immediate phenotype of a given IQ.

“Though all of your hearts bleed for the common folk, they would find great pleasure in a fate nothing short of public decapitation for each of you.”

Yes, which is what the non-white cognitive elites wish for us as well.  My heart “bleeds” for no one, least of all the moronic white masses.  I know where my interests lie and, moronic or not, the white masses are our masses.  On the other hand, Chinese or South Asian “intellectual elites” are alien.

“Ya, ya, I know, it’s all the Jews fault . . “

You are the one who is constantly mentioning the Jews.  Are you an anti-Semite?

“ see the masses as parasites upon the cognitive elites”

And I see non-white “cognitive elites” living in the West as free-riders on white immigration altruism, a view which is more consistent with biological fitness than your own.

“But I prefer constant upwards evolution of a race as a whole.”

Of a race.  Interesting.  Then you support racial preservation, coupled with eugenics, which is the “paradigm” of many here, despite your claim that the paradigm is “flawed.”

Or, do you support the GNXP program?

Posted by nutrament on October 22, 2006, 01:14 PM | #

Jason Wrong states that the paradigm on this blog is flawed, but what is that paradigm?  Do all the conflicting opinions of the site’s bloggers and commentariat actually constitute a consistent paradigm?

In contrast, Wrong’s own paradigm of a focus on elites is clearly flawed, by empirical study.  After all, we can excuse the stupidity of the white masses; after all, they are dumb and low-IQ, aren’t they? 

Do the white intellectual elites have any excuse?  All they are doing, in both the Old World and the New, is promoting the destruction of their own civilization, culture and society (after all, if these are the products of the elite, then they are *theirs*, no?).  They are self-destructively eliminating the very basis of their own existence; to put it crudely, they are “shitting where they eat.” They are importing their own competitors, in the form of ethnocentric Asian ethnic nepotists, who privately sneer at any idea of a “solidarity” of “elite interests” between themselves and the white elites, for whom they have a well-deserved contempt.  Worst of all, the demographic changes promoted by the elites is the genetic equivalent (and worse) of the destruction of their entire extended families.  White intellectual elites of today are dumb as a stone and/or pathologically self-destructive and morally depraved.  *These* are the people with whom the “intellectual elites” here should identify with?

I do not think so.  We need to create our own elite and guide the masses in the right direction.  Surely, being an “elitist”, Wrong is opposed to mass democracy; thus, in a non-democratic system, a racially aware elite can construct a society that encompasses the interests of its members, while, at the same time, practicing a judicious eugenics that improves the quality of the population without sacrificing key interests and disrupting the hierarchical harmony of that society.

Posted by Rnl on October 22, 2006, 10:04 PM | #

nutrament wrote:

We need to create our own elite and guide the masses in the right direction.

I guess I must be an egalitarian.

On racial issues, like immigration and affirmative action, “the moronic white masses” are more likely to be right than their elites, cognitive or otherwise.

Nobody, or almost nobody, is mentally incapable of understanding that multiracialism is a bad social system. We don’t need elites to guide the masses toward that truth. We only need normal Whites speaking to other normal Whites, as well as media vehicles in which that speaking can occur. The media vehicles are the real challenge; a population capable of understanding the message already exists.

Dr. Pierce was always careful in his language on this point. He didn’t say that racialists are smarter than nonracialists, but only that they are more thoughtful and more observant.

Here’s a recent blog entry, taken almost at random from Auster’s site. How many Whites are too dull to understand it? There may be a few dozen somewhere, but the number is surely small. Anyone smart enough to successfully turn on his television is smart enough to understand the following:

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/006596.html

Posted by Jason Wong on October 23, 2006, 03:16 AM | #

[Even from a ‘selfish’ elitist standpoint, white (intellectual) elites should be concerned with racial issues, with a strong interest in living in a white society.  If not, this decreases the likelihood that they will a) remain white, b) remain as an elite, and c) live in a culturally compatible society.]

So your goal is simply to remain White.  Then you are doing just fine.  My goal is to be better than White, to infact become a far superior species to any human, and then some.

[The point is that different races regress to a different level; thus, “elites” of different races but matched for IQ would demonstrate regression to different IQ means.  Hence, a strong underlying racial component independent of the immediate phenotype of a given IQ.]

Sure.

[Are you an anti-Semite?]

Yes.

[Then you support racial preservation, coupled with eugenics]

I believe that there must be a certain level of genotypic/phenotypic similarity in a society if there is to be adequate harmony in fullfilling certain goals, such as eugenics and transhuman technology. 

[Or, do you support the GNXP program?]

What is GNXP?

Posted by Earl's biceps on October 23, 2006, 09:56 AM | #

“So your goal is simply to remain White.”

You must be illiterate, since “nutrament” openly endorsed intraracial euegnics.

“Then you are doing just fine.”

What century are you living in?

Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 23, 2006, 01:15 PM | #

This is for JJR in case he drops by:  in the following snippet from a column posted last night over at Vdare.com Steve Sailer says, in effect, excessive Third-World immigration is lowering white birth rates.  Steve doesn’t finish the thought.  I’ll finish it:  1) what’s taking place with excessive incompatible immigration is race-replacement and 2) it’s being imposed knowingly, deliberately, and by calculation since what’s obvious yet not remedied where a simple remedy is at hand must be intended.

“by raising land prices and lowering wages immigration prevents native-born Americans from forming families”

(For newbies, the reason I throw that in for John Ray’s consideration is for a long time he resisted acknowledging the reality of race-replacement, finally admitting it begrudgingly and half-heartedly, still allowing himself plenty of wiggle-room to reverse course and start denying it again.  I won’t let him get away with that:  he must hoist the white flag unconditionally with sufficient humility, preferably with his hat in his hand, his ears drooping, and his tail between his legs.  Don’t worry, John, I won’t gloat — I’ll be gentlemanly about it when the time comes.)

Posted by Jasper Ryder on October 26, 2006, 07:56 AM | #

preferably with his hat in his hand

Preferably a tile hat.