Race trumps gender in South Carolina

Posted by onetwothree on January 27, 2008, 01:22 AM | #

The Hispanics in California will see to it that he won’t win. I’m rather dreading the next 20, 30 years of being forced to hear about him. I really am.

Posted by onetwothree on January 27, 2008, 01:24 AM | #

Oh, and Edwards got a rounded-down ZERO percent from blacks, if I remember correctly. Maybe he’ll realize it’s time to switch parties.

Posted by Prozium on January 27, 2008, 02:27 AM | #

Race doesn’t matter, obviously.

Posted by Prozium on January 27, 2008, 02:30 AM | #

I was watching Hannity & Colmes the other night (yes, I was extremely bored). Hannity was interviewing this black guy and kept asking him if was okay for whites to vote for whites on the basis of race. He said it was perfectly natural.

Posted by s on January 27, 2008, 03:12 PM | #

Coalition

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 27, 2008, 04:37 PM | #

Good articles linked in s’s comment at “Coalition.”

Posted by Matra on January 27, 2008, 05:18 PM | #

I just read one of the linked articles ‘s’ provided. Though the possible break-up of the rainbow coalition has lead to understandable schadenfreude a question comes to my mind: When blacks are displaced by Mexicans where do those blacks go? I would have thought they go to white areas, correct?

Also, don’t expect too many black Americans to lose their hate-on for whites so quickly after losing territory to Hispanics, nor should one expect any kind of coalition between whites and Hispanics. As some of us here have shown even many white ethnics retain residual animosity towards the Anglo-Saxons whom they imagine still run the show. So blacks and Hispanics as permanent outsiders with a victim complex will still see whites as a common enemy. As worthless as the GOP is it is still considered the party of white America and perceived to be hostile to immigration. Does anyone see blacks switching to the GOP in significant numbers over the issue of immigration?  Such a white/black alliance seems improbable.

Posted by Guido on January 27, 2008, 06:10 PM | #

Matra,

As some of us here have shown even many white ethnics retain residual animosity towards the Anglo-Saxons whom they imagine still run the show.

I am quite disappointed with your changing views regarding such issues over the years here at MR.  I understand that “Northerner” with his incomprehensible shrills and Desmond’s “WASPs are only innocent victims” are the outliers here and do not speak for all, though you should know that many of us do NOT have animosity towards Anglos. 

I do understand your critiques about Italian Canadians and their apparent self-serving behaviour at the expense of the Canadian Anglo.  However, the main issue that should be remembered, as I am not absolving ANYONE from any blame, is that there are always two sides to every disagreement.

Sorry to detract from your topic here, as it is a very important one. 

As to your recent question, NO, blacks will not be switching to the GOP.  Their upcoming upheaval will be an excellent opportunity for whites to speak up about their rights of freedom of association.  I do not expect it to succeed, however the seed will be planted into many more whites at that time which will only benefit the whole in the future.

Posted by Top on January 27, 2008, 07:26 PM | #

How many times will these scenarios repeat themselves before a critical mass of whites wake up to the Great Game?  How many times do blacks have to blatantly vote for their own candidate based solely on race for things to become clear?  How many times will jewish orgnizations have to throw power and money behind blatantly anti-Euro causes before they notice?  How much territory do whites have to lose to third worlders for facts to sink in?  How much racial violence will have to be comitted against whites?  How much culture will have to be lost before the youn Euros actually give a damn?  How much does the economy have to sink?

These are not rhetorical questions - these are questions I would really like to know the answer to.

Posted by Top on January 27, 2008, 07:50 PM | #

So I was reading some SC rag about the election and then I started reading the comment section.  While there were a few semi-intelligent comments in there, here is another sampling - from the demographic category of ‘young, white females’:

First one:
“So..I guess South Carolina assumes that a girl born and raised in South Carolina by a (SURPRISE… WHITE....)business owner supported Barack Obama. :::GASP::::: How could this be??!?? It’s obviously not just about race, but the potential of the candidate. Did people give the percentage of white voters who voted for any of the Bush family? If so,was that enough reason to discredit all of his votes and the fact that he “won” (but..not really) the vote of American people? The reason I support Obama is because I am young, and I was born into a republican family and I want and deserve change. Because of my education, I want racial equality, and justice for ALL! I love America, and that is why I embrace diversity, change, and I want rights for EVERYONE (not just those in BIG business).
I am a 24 year old white female,and I fully support Barack Obama. I don’t care what his racial background is ( that is not important by any means).
If George W. Bush represents the white man, I am ashamed of my own race.”

Second one:
“I’m white & female and I voted for Edwards. My sister voted for Obama. To imply that Obama’s victory was racially based is ridiculous.
Should we infer that Bushs’ 2000 win over McCain in the primary was a GOP racist-based victory? ‘Cause Bush’s dirty politicking, i.e. “McCain’s got a black baby”, won him the primary.”

Third one:
“67% of voters age 18-29 voted for Obama also...We recognize that is time for change..You can read these ridiculous comments on this threat and recognize that. You old timers need to get with the times....Not everything today is based on race like you all like to make it out to be.....Get with the times people!”

Here is my next question:  Is there another group on earth that’s more brainwashed than young, white females?  And at which point in time will responsible white people put a stop to the blatant and genocidal brainwashing of their young people (especially young women)?

Once again these are not rhetorical questions.

Posted by onetwothree on January 27, 2008, 10:36 PM | #

*How many times...*

There’s an interesting phenomena that you may have noticed. For instance, you can divide atheists into two groups:

1. A group of people who reasoned out the question, the probability, the reasonableness, the *root causes*, etc, of religion, and decided that the whole things was a sham…

2. And the group of people who had something happen to them (eg, a particularily religious grandmother died, a child was murdered, a bad case of cancer struck them, etc) and they asked the perfectly stupid question, “Why would god do this to *me*?” ...at that point, they decided that god was a bad man, and so would punish him by not believing in him.

A lot of questions can be decided like that...either by reasoning, or by emoting. Most people will not turn “racist” until they see their own neighborhood destroyed, or until their own daughter is raped, or until they themselves are passed over for promotion due to affirmative action.

Posted by Prozium on January 28, 2008, 12:58 AM | #

When blacks are displaced by Mexicans where do those blacks go? I would have thought they go to white areas, correct?

They move back to the South.

Posted by Desmond Jones on January 28, 2008, 01:35 AM | #

Guido “Two-sides” says,

Yes. And when you peel away all those villainous, non-northern Euro layers to get to the culprits that benefit the most from this monstrosity that is “multiculturalism”, you see a f**king white WASP face along with his Jew buddies. It sure isn’t the Wop, Spic, of Nog that reaps major power and untold fortune from this race traitor mentality that has seeped into the psyche of the WASP.

It is the WASP that has sold his own people down the river for fame and fortune. Why is that, Jones?

“Residual animosity” now there’s an understatement!

Posted by Desmond Jones on January 28, 2008, 02:05 AM | #

The British ex-Jew, now residing in Canada, Michael Coren:

I am not an American and cannot vote in any U.S. election. If I could, however, I would vote for virtually anyone other than Barack Obama. Not because of his colour. Condoleezza Rice, for example, would make an outstanding president of the United States. No, it is because Obama is affiliated with racists and bigots.

Almost 20 years ago he became a member of Chicago’s Trinity United Church of Christ. There he gave his support to a program the church calls a Black Value System, which has nothing to do with Christianity, but encourages the separation of the races.

At its best the philosophy encourages the empowerment of black America. At its worst it blames white people for every problem in the black community and tells adherents that they must not be “captive” to white society.

Most worrying is the preacher at the church, Jeremiah Wright, who is not only Obama’s “spiritual guide,” but also baptized his daughters and advises him as he attempts to become the most powerful politician in the world.

Speaking of Africa, Wright has said that he and his followers, “remain true to our native land, the mother continent” and Obama’s church has given militant racist and anti-Semitic rabble-rouser Louis Farrakhan a lifetime achievement award.

More than this, Wright actually went to Libya with Farrakhan for a personal audience with controversial Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi, who has been linked by some to international terrorism against civilian targets.

Obama frequently praises Wright and Wright frequently praises Farrakhan, who has said that, “Hitler was a very great man,” whites are “blue-eyed devils” and “these false Jews promote the filth of Hollywood. It’s the wicked Jews, the false Jews, that are promoting lesbianism, homosexuality.”

He has referred to Asians as “bloodsuckers” and made the most vitriolic comments about gay men and women.

So Obama’s church is hardly the stuff of mainstream Christianity. Obama himself was raised by two Muslim fathers and attended an Islamic school in Indonesia. His Kenyan brother, Abongo Roy Obama, is still a Muslim and has stated that black people must free themselves from, “the poisoning influences of European culture.”

Barack Obama may despise his brother’s opinions, but he has never said so. He may disappprove of preacher Wright’s extreme afrocentrism and close association with a racist madman, but if he does he says precious little about it and continues to praise Wright and to laud the man’s influence whenever he can.

Yet he receives little criticism about all this. Can we imagine Hilary Clinton, Mike Huckabee, Mitt Romney or any other candidate being let off so lightly?

What appears to make the horribly inexperienced and lightweight Obama so immune to criticism is, paradoxically, his colour.

As a black man he escapes the criticism so routinely thrown at his white rivals, which is racism.

All people should be treated equally, irrespective of colour, class and creed. For Obama to be apparently allowed such indulgences and so many worrying and worryingly close connections is patronizing and unhelpful.

Perhaps we can only hope that Oprah Winfrey holds a rally or broadcasts a week of shows holding her new friend up to scrutiny and telling him off for being so close to so many nasty racists.

Otherwise we might think that there was a double standard out there.

Surely not!

Posted by Guido on January 28, 2008, 02:23 AM | #

As expected, in chimes Desmond “We WASPs be victims from da Jews AND da Wops” Jones with his usual one-sided and distorted version of reality. His quote above is me lambasting him after his stock ramblings against, in the current case, Catholics as he opposes Ben Tillman of all people, at the Age of Treason blog. 

http://age-of-treason.blogspot.com/2008/01/something-unspeakable-this-way-comes.html

What “honest” Jones “forgets” to put up are all the quotes, in context.  ‘Cuz uhhh, we all know how out of context quotes are just like in context, only shorter and that Jones has no agenda.

In context, people can go to the website linked above and read for themselves as I do not have anything to hide and I made it crystal clear with who specifically my animosity resided.  Though I must admit I do love Desmond’s “Not my fault” Negro act.  The WASP surely has fallen on hard times if Desmond is going to be the spokesman for future independence.  LOL

Posted by Desmond Jones on January 28, 2008, 02:41 AM | #

Gary J. Wise, Attorney at Law writes;

In 1933, shortly after Adolph Hitler was elected to power in Germany, newspaper articles reached Toronto bringing with them news of the atrocities the Nazis were carrying out against Jews there. Toronto’s anti-Semites became inspired by what they read, and began adopting the swastika symbol. In July of that year a group of residents from the Beaches neighbourhood formed the Balmy Beach Swastika Club. They complained about the crowding, litter and ‘vulgarity’ at the beach, which they attributed to the large number of ‘obnoxious visitors’ who were riding the street cars out to the beach that summer. Many of these visitors were Jewish, and anti-Semitism seemed to be a cornerstone of the Swastika Club; they wore and posted swastikas and they attempted to have Jews and other ‘foreiners’ banned them from the beach. Even though the beach was a public park Beaches residents including the Swastika Club saw it as very much their own, and private. All of this outraged the Jewish community.

...On August 14th huge crowds gathered at Christie Pits for a baseball game, the first game of a tournament between the St. Peters’ team and the predominately Jewish Harbord Playground team. The game took place in a neighbourhood that Jews had just started moving into, and racial animosities were running high. The Harbord Playground team won the game despite the taunting from the crowd and the flying of a swastika banner. The next morning there was a giant swastika and large lettering that read Heil Hitler painted on the top of the Christie Pits clubhouse. This increased tensions and brought even more people out to the next game on August 16th. During that game a group of St. Peters’ supporters raised a white bed sheet with a swastika painted on it. A group of Jews went to tear it down. This ignited a fight, and soon the thousands of spectators had joined the brawl. The two sides violently clashed, battling each other and fighting for the bed sheet. Many residents in the area who were not involved in the baseball game “ came out of their houses with bats and sticks because they were after the Jews”. One Jewish boy was hit on the head and needed to be rushed to hospital, but rumour spread that he had been killed. As news of the riot hit the Jewish areas many more Jews (along with their Italian allies) headed north to join the massive brawl. Metal pipes and baseball bats were wielded as weapons. Pitch battles continued late into the night and spread to neighbouring streets and alleys as police closed down the park.

Only two days after the riot fears of further violence forced city council to ban the Swastika symbol from Toronto’s streets.

Remember, there’s always “two sides”.

Posted by Guido on January 28, 2008, 03:24 AM | #

Hahaha

“Negro” Jones brings up...gasp...the Christie Pits riots!!  But wait, is there more to this story?

Prior to WW II, extensive patterns of social, economic and political discrimination against non-Anglo-Saxons developed throughout Canada. Northern and western Europeans attracted relatively little discrimination compared with Jews and those from central and southern Europe, while non-whites, especially in BC, suffered a pervasive pattern of discrimination that affected almost every aspect of their lives. Discrimination was one of the factors that led to the transference of the ethnic “pecking order” of immigration policy to a VERTICAL MOSAIC of occupations and incomes - the British on top and so on down to the Chinese and blacks who occupied the most menial jobs. Non-British and non-French groups had very little economic power, and they did not begin to make any significant inroads into the middle echelons of politics, education or the PUBLIC SERVICE until after WW II (see ELITES).

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0006458

Posted by Guido on January 28, 2008, 03:30 AM | #

You see, there are ALWAYS two sides to a story, eh Negro?  LOL

Wonder why Canadian Wops don’t like the WASP too much?  Negro Jones says WASPs are the eternal victim, yet, what Negro says is not always the entire truth.  Is it?

Posted by Svigor on January 28, 2008, 04:07 AM | #

Er Guido, you’re not helping your case with that quote.

Desmond, what I really like about that story is how it’s such a ship in a bottle for MR.com, authoritarian intolerance, and antimajoritarianism.

The Jews couldn’t contain themselves and started a fight...so the state took away the Anglos right to free expression.

Posted by Desmond Jones on January 28, 2008, 04:07 AM | #

Wonder why Canadian Wops don’t like the WASP too much?

Nope. No puzzle there.

Posted by Svigor on January 28, 2008, 04:08 AM | #

Sorry, that should be “authoritarian tolerance,” not “authoritarian intolerance.”

Posted by Matra on January 28, 2008, 04:08 AM | #

I was going to respond to all Guido’s posts but the one at 3.24 AM saves me the time. It is the usual multicultural argument that many (though clearly not enough) Anglo-Saxons put their own people first therefore discriminating against everybody else. Apparently that justifies southern Europeans joining the non-white mosaic in undermining their hosts. That pretty much sums things up. It’s not that much different from the permanent white guilt trip Americans are on.

Posted by Desmond Jones on January 28, 2008, 04:10 AM | #

The Jews couldn’t contain themselves and started a fight...so the state took away the Anglos right to free expression.

Exactly.

Brilliant!

Posted by Matra on January 28, 2008, 06:04 AM | #

Early results are now in. According to the first exit polls while 80% of black men voted for Obama, as expected, 82% of black women also voted for a man of their race rather than a white woman

Those numbers have changed slightly since Saturday night with Obama getting 78% of both black male and female votes.

The Hispanics in California will see to it that he won’t win.

Today Bob Novak writes:

Clinton’s double-digit lead in California polls over Sen. Barack Obama is misleading. Subtract a Latino voting bloc whose dependability to show up Election Day always has been shaky, and Clinton is no better than even in the state, with Obama gaining. To encourage this brown firewall, the Clinton campaign may be drifting into encouragement of brown vs. black racial conflict by condoning Latino racial hostility to the first African-American with a chance to become president.

Posted by silver on January 28, 2008, 09:13 AM | #

Wonder why Canadian Wops don’t like the WASP too much?

Probably for the same reason Australian Wops don’t.

In the wake of a fatal attack, in which a white teenager was killed by Tongans (iirc), that took place last year in Griffith, a regional town in New South Wales, a Christian social worker made comments harshly critical of multiculturalism.  A debate ensued which provoked a former councillor, the very WASP sounding Peter Day, to state uncommonly firmly, “Having non-Europeans in this country has failed. The failure to assimilate is a big problem and for some reason Griffith City Council and other establishments pander to these cultures.”

“Dino and a lot of them up there are in denial. There are six million Europeans willing to come to Australia. Let’s get the right nationalities here. I’m sick of third world sewerage coming into the country.”

Dino is Dino Zappacosta, Griffith mayor.  What did he have to say?

“When someone like Father Riley flies in from out of town and makes the statement, ‘It’s not working,’ I say: ‘You don’t live here; you haven’t worked here for 50 years developing the harmonious community we have’. I will not accept anyone coming into Griffith and stirring up trouble.”

“I have lived here since I was a young four-year-old boy and I have lived through the 50s and 60s when it wasn’t nice to be anything but a white Anglo Saxon, but Griffith has come a long way since then.”

The resentment endures.

What is interesting is that fomer councillor Day was trying to be inclusive with his statement.  He could have simply said, as Mr. Jones might have preferred him to, “Having non-Britons in this country has failed.  We should have realized it when the first bloody wogs began arriving but we didn’t and now we’re paying the price.”

As George Borjas says, ethnicity matters, and it matters for a long time.

There was a gardening show on a community TV channel here in Melbourne playing just as I clicked on this thread called ‘Vasili’s Garden.’ In it, Greek gardener Vasili visits people at their homes and is treated to a tour of their gardens.  The show is filled up with gardening discussion as it relates to the host’s garden and with general banter between Vasili and the host. 

All of the guest gardens (that I have seen) are selected for belonging to southern/eastern European immigrants. 

Vasili himself is probably a second or third generation Greek, but speaks his fluent English in an unmistakable son-of-immigrants Greek accent, perhaps laying it on thicker than usual for effect, which seems to endear him to both the hosts, as they reply to him with their broken English, and to the ethnic viewers which must surely make up the bulk of the audience. 

For example, this evening, the host family was from Slovakia.  Dinner was being prepared and Vasili peppered the hosts with questions about the range of foods on offer.  Inquiring about a particular dish, Vasili asked, “‘Kifla’[I think]?  Really?  How do you make this one?” Vasili would surely know that that is not the usual construction for this sort of question in this context, which would normally be “How do you make these?” or “How do you make those?”, but he’s playing it up for the audience, much of it Greek, for whom this akward construction, likely a direct translation from the native tongue, is quite common. 

All of this is to highlight the existing divide and confirm Desmond Jones’ and Matra’s and whoever else’s suspicions about white, European unity.  The southern/eastern European immigrants continue to see themselves as a people apart and appear to prefer seeing themselves as a people apart. 

Whatever the case may be in America, it is not quite the case in the other Anlgo dominions.  Discussion of various preservationist/survival strategies should reflect this reality.

Posted by gold on January 28, 2008, 09:39 AM | #

Silver, supporting Desmond Jones.

Surprise, surprise.

Posted by silver on January 28, 2008, 11:24 AM | #

I am agreeing that Desmond Jones has a point.  That is not the same as unreservedly supporting all of his views. 

Likewise, I agree that you often have a point, also, without agreeing with the entirety of your views. 

Since you have developed a habit of trolling me with petty innuendo I will add that even though I am also a fascist (more or less), I consider you a sorry excuse for a human, no matter the truth value of any of your statements.  (Fred Scrooby I class in a similar category.)

Posted by name on January 28, 2008, 11:33 AM | #

Quite the irony in guido, brave opponent of “bigotry” who attacks WASPs while insisting s. euros not be criticized, calling Desmond Jones “negro”.

The reality, of course, is that guido is the minority and acts like one.

Also interesting how “gold” knows silver is secretly a nordicist troll because, obviously, in gold’s mind, a real s. euro would line up behind s. euro ethnic interests against the Australian majority, or at least keep quiet. Which tends to make the “nordicist” case.

Posted by gold on January 28, 2008, 11:48 AM | #

Silver, I wouldn’t call you a “sorry excuse” for a human.  You are not a human at all.  You are mendacious trash.

Curious, “name’s’” quick defense of “silver” - within 9 minutes of “silver’s” riposte, and not during the time period that “name” usually posts. 

Which tends to make the “golden case.”

“The reality, of course, is that guido is the minority and acts like one.”

If anything, “Guido” is acting like the straight man in this comedic farce.

“obviously, in gold’s mind, a real s. euro would line up behind s. euro ethnic interests against the Australian majority, or at least keep quiet”

No, a real “Serbian fearful of a Nordicist blacklash” wouldn’t, at every opportunity, do everything possible to promote what he allegedly fears, without even proposing alternative ideas.

Does the “Serbian” “silver” have any prescriptive commentaries about what should be done in Australia?

“Likewise, I agree that you often have a point, also..”

Funny, in your continued support of the views of Desmond Jones and “name,” I must have missed any agreement with *any* of my points. 

Which supports the “golden case” as well.

Posted by gold on January 28, 2008, 11:53 AM | #

“a real s. euro would line up behind s. euro ethnic interests against the Australian majority, or at least keep quiet”

No, “mind reader,” I’m arguing that these interests should be essentially congruent; it’s “silver” who continuously protests in favor of “s. euro ethnic interests.”

Which is precisely the opposite of your assertion.

Fascinating that it’s “Guido” and “gold” who are “supporting the nordicist case,” and not “silver” himself - with his constant whining of potential future persecution, and imaginary “comments” made to him by “Australian racialist nationalists.”

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 28, 2008, 01:28 PM | #

“I consider you a sorry excuse for a human [...].  Fred Scrooby I class in a similar category.” (—Silver)

It’s a damn good thing Robert Lindsay loves me otherwise I’d be inconsolable after that.

Posted by silver on January 28, 2008, 01:35 PM | #

If anything, “Guido” is acting like the straight man in this comedic farce.

Says it all, really.

Whenever anything threatens to exclude Rienzi it’s always a farce or a joke or a waste of time or a failure to grasp, Rienzi informs us in always exasperated tones, the most basic principles of racialism.

Funny, in your continued support of the views of Desmond Jones and “name,” I must have missed any agreement with *any* of my points.

I’ve read a great deal of your work and I respect much of it (a respect I don’t extend to you as a person).  Ticking off a list of what precisely I do or do not agree with is unnecessary. 

Ultimately, it is a question of what is to be preserved and where.  This is not a difficult concept.  Nordic Europeans were the founders of the countries you and I inhabit and it is they, more than any other, who have the greatest amount at stake in the future of those countries.  Their interests and yours and mine often coincide, it is true, and this fact supports co-operation.  But let us not pretend that our interests, whether ethnic, genetic or cultural align perfectly. 

Does the “Serbian” “silver” have any prescriptive commentaries about what should be done in Australia?

I note that the founding Anglo Australians have racial interests, and I urge them to consider those interests, and that doing so is not only legitimate but necessary.  Beyond that, it is not for me tell them what to think.  I would, of course, caution temperance and fairness.  But I will not insist that they pretend to see in me or, to name a couple of recent celebrity lumanaries, Novak Djokovic or Ana Ivanovic, everything they see in themselves.

Posted by Guido on January 28, 2008, 01:50 PM | #

I was going to respond to all Guido’s posts but the one at 3.24 AM saves me the time. It is the usual multicultural argument that many (though clearly not enough) Anglo-Saxons put their own people first therefore discriminating against everybody else.

Well, I was going to respond to the three great WASP thinkers here, not including that little man dipshit, Northerner, however Matra’s comment here saves me the time. 

Why is it such a surprise that a people would resent being treated like second and third class citizens?  Especially if we are to be considered “brothers”?  Why were they asked to come in the first place?  Did they storm the gates to get in?  Who let them in?  Who benefited from their arrival?  Why are the WASPs here upset as they are being relegated to second class citizenry and discriminated against?  Why don’t they just roll with it as they expected all their “underlings” to do in the past?  Tough questions, for sure.

WASPs need to understand they have “irritated” many along the way.  That’s a fact and cannot be ignored.  Speaking specifically about S Euros with whom I have contact with; many still hold tremendous resentment.  I do not, as I did not experience this “discrimination” though I do find it galling to have to explain it to such great thinkers.  You’d think this would be easy to understand, unless of course, no one gives a fuck, which certainly explains Little Northie and Jones’ behaviour.

And silver, you’re a piece of shit liar.

Posted by Guido on January 28, 2008, 01:54 PM | #

Whenever anything threatens to exclude Rienzi it’s always a farce or a joke or a waste of time or a failure to grasp, Rienzi informs us in always exasperated tones, the most basic principles of racialism.

My, how much like Northerner or Jones this sounds like.  I have yet to see such contempt from a Serb directed at Wop or other southern Euro. 

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 28, 2008, 03:08 PM | #

Guido, every group thinking the next group is an inferior race is normal and healthy.  It’s the Jews and their clueless-women-and-faux-self-abnegating-Christian dupes who’ve injected the contrary “view” into things.  The thing is to 1) stand your ground, and 2) don’t “cut off your nose to spite your face” which is what the wops are doing every time they side with the Lebanese or other non-Euros against any of their (like-it-or-not) Euro brethren.  Swedes traditionally think Norwegians are neanderthals.  Do the Norwegians look broken up about it?  Israeli Ashkenazis view Sephardic and Mizrahi Israeli Jews as knuckle-dragging mouth-breathing genetic inferiors and forbid their daughters to marry them.  I don’t see the latter going off the deep end about it.  In Flanders there are still towns where everyone in the surrounding towns is considered an inferior race.  I wouldn’t worry about it.  It’s the Jews who’ve sought to twist what’s normal in this regard into the most heinous crime against humanity since some publisher decided to publish Johan Hari’s first column.

DON’T WORRY ABOUT IT!

Euros are now fighting for their lives.  Let’s stick together and not sweat the small stuff.  (Besides, Italian food is my favorite after Chinese, if that’s any consolation!)

Posted by name on January 28, 2008, 03:42 PM | #

Keep digging, guidobitch.

Gold: by insinuating I am silver, you make yourself look like a paranoid retard to everyone except your clownish, low-IQ minority activist fanboy guidobitch.

Posted by Guido on January 28, 2008, 04:03 PM | #

Sorry Northie the Lesser, the only insinuation on my part is that you’re a dipshit.  I find it humorous that Northie has trouble utilizing and understanding the English language.  LOL

Fred, I agree with you.  Especially this…

don’t “cut off your nose to spite your face” which is what the wops are doing every time they side with the Lebanese or other non-Euros against any of their (like-it-or-not) Euro brethren

Excellent point, Fred.  I do not like nor condone the fact wops behaved in that manner against the Canadian Anglos, though I do understand why they did/do it.  I’m just trying to get the WASP thinkers here to understand it as they seem to be a bit dense in that arena.  Remember, two sides to every argument.

Posted by name on January 28, 2008, 09:52 PM | #

More irony: greaseape is so dumb he believes a comment directly addressed to another poster is meant for him, and asserts this is evidence others have difficulty using English.

If I were going to create a s. euro sockpuppet to advance the cause of “nordicism”, I suspect it would look more like guido than silver: dumb, angry, hypocritical, and disrespectful toward its betters.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 28, 2008, 10:34 PM | #

Northerner is so mellow.  I wonder what he’s like when he’s tightly wound?

Posted by Guessedworker on January 28, 2008, 10:46 PM | #

Frankly, I’m tired of this nonsense.  Certain parties to this “conversation” are treating this website like a verbal sewer.  If that’s all you think of it, just get out and don’t return.  Northerner/AA/name (McCulloch, Fulton?), that applies especially to you.

I explained to you not very long ago that my concern was to maintain a productive and respectful conversation among everyone of European heritage who visits these threads.  Our readers deserve to hear the arguments for a pan-European and a separatist solution.  They do not deserve to be assaulted by displays of blind hatred.

I am not going to IP-ban you out of respect for the man who has, at various times, offered interesting commentary here on what are, for you, non-controversial WN issues.  But I do ask you to take on board what I am saying.  I will wipe out every word you post here if you do not do so.

Posted by Desmond Jones on January 28, 2008, 11:01 PM | #

Sorry Northie the Lesser, the only insinuation on my part is that you’re a dipshit.

Considering the above and other choice selections directed at Northerner, it’s rather disappointing that GW focuses his admonishment upon only one party.

Posted by Guessedworker on January 28, 2008, 11:20 PM | #

Desmond,

I used the term “certain parties”.  It is a plural term.

As for Northerner, he is damned by his motives.  He has a good mind.  He is perfectly capable of arguing from principle and fact.  But he did not come to MR in search of ideological exchange.  He came - I think first as AA - to exercise a grudge against a former blogger.  That person, perhaps unwisely, picked up the gauntlet, and the result has been wholly unedifying.

I want it to cease now.  That Northerner must understand.

Posted by Guido on January 28, 2008, 11:20 PM | #

Always the victim Jones chimes right on cue.  Northie boasts he is the “better”, does he not?  Obviously, one cannot expect too much from a lowly “greaseape”, hence GW’s tolerance.  What about the “betters” of the world, like Northie and you?  Certainly you must follow a higher code of conduct in order to be viewed on the top tiers of humanity, right Jones?  Funny all you can muster is “yeah, but Guido was bad too”.... 

Posted by Guessedworker on January 28, 2008, 11:31 PM | #

But Guido was bad too, and now he has to get better.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 29, 2008, 12:36 AM | #

Guido, I catch it from a few of these same guys for having some Jewish ancestry (I together with, by the way, who knows how many others who either don’t know they have it or don’t advertise it?).  Do you see me fold?  Back down?  Fail to stand my ground?  No.  I know who I am and what I want!

Dutchmen consider Friesians (men living in a certain region of Holland) congenital retards.  So do Germans (there are German Friesians too).  In Germany they tell Friesian jokes the way we in the States tell Polish jokes.  I don’t think the Friesians are too upset about it.  Speaking of Poles, Russians spit on them.  (Poles spit right back.) When I was first applying to college I got out the encyclopedia and looked up the city where a particular college was, and learned there was a large Polish community there.  My Russian mother looked at the article and exclaimed to me how her mother had ”hated Poles, absolutely hated them!  Could not STAND them!  I can just picture you coming home from college now with a Polish bride! (For my part, I got kicked off one web-site two years ago partly for having said I liked Poles.) When I lived in Europe a friend of mine, a girl from the Ardennes, had a German sweetheart she had to hide from her father who hated Germans like you can’t imagine.  Her father would rather see her go out with an African Negro than a German.  Speaking of Germans, in parts of Germany, including the part my father’s family lives in, they traditionally hated Prussians almost as much as Northerner hates Meds.

What is the big deal???  I love that stuff.  I think it’s normal and healthy, the exact opposite of lying down and going extinct on your racial enemy’s say-so.  I love tribes and belonging to tribes and being among a bunch of folk who think they’re better than the next tribe.  IT’S SO FRICKING NORMAL!  I love dialects, I love cultures, I love folk costumes, I love distinct ways of thinking and being, I love meaning, because that’s what it boils down to, and I hate entropy, because that’s what the opposite boils down to.  What the Jews are forever trying to force on us is more entropy, another word for meaninglessness, and what we’re forever seeking to preserve, in resisting the Jews, is meaning. 

What’s your problem???  STAND YOUR GROUND. 

One of the strongest personalities and most powerful intellects on our side is a Maltese guy, for crying out loud! 

We’re all, ALL, in this together.

Posted by Guido on January 29, 2008, 01:04 AM | #

Thanks Fred, though don’t worry, I was only being sarcastic in my last comment and I certainly don’t have such thin skin, needing constant approval.  I was only making a “counterpoint” to Desmond’s one hit wonder about SE.  Can’t help it Northie got a little splatter. 

In all seriousness, I would like to hear the opinion of Matra and/or Svigor regarding my comment on Monday, January 28, 2008 at 01:50 PM.  If they think I am full of crap, then please say so as I would like to hear their side of it.

GW, apologies and thanks for your patience.

Posted by silver on January 29, 2008, 01:54 AM | #

Guido: I have yet to see such contempt from a Serb directed at Wop or other southern Euro.

It’s not a question of contempt, it’s a question of reality—in this case, of plainly observable reality.  Do S. Euros even understand, let alone appreciate or conform to or adopt for themselves the nordic man’s ways and ideals?  Overwhelmingly, the answer is no, no and hell no.  Can anything be done to amend this deplorable set of circumstances?  At this late date, would it even matter?  I certainly hope the answer is yes, though I fear it may well be no.

Speaking of contempt, it’s more the case that an Italian racialist would be expected, at least behind closed doors, to look down his nose at a balkanoid, much in the same manner that Rienzi derided “SuperAmanda” for being a “big-jawed Arab.” Bear this in mind when accusing me of naked contempt.

Posted by Svigor on January 29, 2008, 02:29 AM | #

In Flanders there are still towns where everyone in the surrounding towns is considered an inferior race.

RotFLMWAO!  A good laugh was had!  Is that the ideal state of humanity?  :D

Posted by Svigor on January 29, 2008, 02:36 AM | #

Ha, Fred.  I don’t consider you a Jew.  I do see you as having Jewish traits, but that’s frickin’ GREAT!  Brains, loquaciousness, tenacity, good sense...what’s not to like?  (okay, your scatalogical put downs don’t do anything for me, but what’s a foible or two?)

If Fred’s a Jew, then the world could use a lot more of his kind of Jew.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 29, 2008, 02:43 AM | #

“Is that the ideal state of humanity?” (—Svi)

Damn right it is, when the alternative is brainwashing them from the tenderest age to believe they must self-abnegate themselves unto group-extinction — exactly what’s been done to all Euros since 1945.

Posted by silver on January 29, 2008, 02:52 AM | #

A poster at Stumble Inn, one Ron Hitler-Barassi, had this to say in a recent thread:

The girl, and her family trusted this wog family as it had put on a big smiling face and befriended them. And being the trusting, naive middle class Anglo types they are, they took these wogs at face value. And there is the rub. Even when wogs are your neighbours, seem normal, act like your friends, get inside your personal space and disarm you with their gregarious, extroverted antics, and look you in the eyes when they tell what what greats friends they are, even then, you still can’t trust them, and you can take it as a given that on whatever level it is, from kidnapping or raping your daughter, to something as petty as working the “friendship” to rip you off by selling you a broken lawn mower for top dollar, you can rely on it that you will be burnt by them.

It is possible to be friends with a lone wog, if it is an introverted one, as some weird Greeks and Italians are, as they have the ability to suppress much of their inner wog, and to act kind of normal. But even then they will be poofters, and even then in the company of other wogs, their inner wog will come boiling back up to the surface quick as blink, which is a dangerous time to be around them as they will force you to interact with other untamed wogs, and around wild animals you are suddenly back to the Law of the Jungle, and all the primate Boss Politics, etc, that that entails.

This is a poignant observation and I have trouble rebutting any of it.  I may suggest that he overstates his case somewhat, but rather than fault him for it, I think it’s more useful to note that cultural differences always appear more salient against the backdop of racial differences; existing animosity is simply a consequence of different peoples sharing the same living spaces, regardless of the fact that they are allegedly ‘equally European.’ How on earth can you demand that nordics ignore all this or look past it in order to reinforce a nonexistent unity? 

Whether Scrooby realises it or not, he is making a cultural argument when he claims we are “all, ALL, in this together.” He also says he is no conservative, so quite how he pulls this off is a story I would like to hear.  (No Scroob, not how it makes sense to you, how you intend it to make sense to others.)

Posted by Svigor on January 29, 2008, 02:52 AM | #

Well, I was going to respond to the three great WASP thinkers here, not including that little man dipshit, Northerner, however Matra’s comment here saves me the time.

Why is it such a surprise that a people would resent being treated like second and third class citizens?

The first thing I do with questions like that is imagine the roles reversed, with myself as outsider in an alien land.  I sure as shit wouldn’t expect equal treatment from them.  In fact, I’d think they were out of their minds if they did treat me equally.  Now, being a WASP, my sense of fairness is pretty highly evolved (a lament as much as a boast if not moreso); I’d expect this, and further I wouldn’t work against native interests except as a part of my own business (i.e., I’m assuming I’d be there to make money and I wouldn’t extend any restraint to legitimate profit-taking).  But, in all honesty, this is really more to do with my own experience of what it means to have one’s own land conquered by hostile aliens.  So how can I just detach myself from my own history and pretend not to be who I am?  I do know that I would never work to advance my race’s interests at the expense of another race, in the former’s territory (exception: unless it meant getting my race back on its feet - in that case I’d pay back the debt later, with interest).

I’d feel like a real scumbag for doing what the Jews and Italians did in that story, like a total heel.  I feel a divide between my own white ethny, and those I perceive as not sharing similar values.

Especially if we are to be considered “brothers”?  Why were they asked to come in the first place?

Erm, I think this has been adequately explained elsewhere, ad infinitum in fact.  Just swap around some names.

Who benefited from their arrival?

They did, in the main.

Why are the WASPs here upset as they are being relegated to second class citizenry and discriminated against?

Is that a serious question?

Why don’t they just roll with it as they expected all their “underlings” to do in the past?  Tough questions, for sure.

Galactically stupid questions, maybe.  Okay, not all of them, but the one previous certainly earns the label Galactically Stupid...make that the two previous.

WASPs need to understand they have “irritated” many along the way.

Aw, you’re just saying that to be nice!

Speaking specifically about S Euros with whom I have contact with; many still hold tremendous resentment.

Shucks, now you’re just laying it on thick, eh?  I’m blushing!

Posted by Svigor on January 29, 2008, 02:55 AM | #

Damn right it is, when the alternative is brainwashing them from the tenderest age to believe they must self-abnegate themselves unto group-extinction — exactly what’s been done to all Euros since 1945.

Ah, no need for clauses!  I thought it had a very idyllic feel to it.

Posted by Matra on January 29, 2008, 03:46 AM | #

Guido (seems more like Kublai than Holliday) - do you know what I’m talking about when I refer to WASPs as the “host” population? I ask because you do not even try to address the issue. Instead you keep on whining like a Mediterranean Jesse Jackson about English Canada failing to be a discrimination free society.  Gee, sorry for not being perfect but then again neither was the country your ancestors freely chose to leave.

Let’s say the descendants of a wave of WASP immigrants to Italy carried such a chip on their shoulders towards Italians due to past discrimination that they overwhelmingly sided with the open borders multiculturalists through the ballot box and through activism and cultural pressure directed at the host population. Wouldn’t it be understandable if the Italians became resentful towards the destructive newcomers? I’m a WASP yet I would understand it. Just like I understand the bitterness some Afrikaners feel towards the more liberal Uitlanders (mostly Anglos and Jews) who often undermined apartheid.

Italians were among the earliest and most enthusiastic members of Canada’s Multicultural Mosaic. They along with Jews, Greeks, Asians, and everyone else, accept WASPs, appear to have what they want. (I could include the French too but as a regional host population trying to control the land their ancestors settled I can sympathise more with them). WASP Canada has lost its confidence. Unless it is in some kind of strange hibernation it may be on its last legs.  You may very well have won. Congratulations Guido. Enjoy the Multicultural Mosaic you and yours worked so hard to build. You certainly deserve it.

Posted by torgrim on January 29, 2008, 03:50 AM | #

Fred;

“Swedes traditionally think Norwegians are Neanderthals.”

Yes, next question...And we have the old and faithful comeback, a short ditty, usually sung without Swedes present…

A thousand Svedes ran through the Veeds chased by one Norwegian, at the Battle of Copenhagen.

Posted by Guido on January 29, 2008, 03:56 AM | #

Svigor, thanks for answering.  As expected, your answer is one with more than an air of bitter betrayal.  I understand your sterile and logical approach to my question, as I ignore the sarcasm, though it is, as you say, done through the eyes of a WASP utilizing hindsight.  If it were only that easy.  Though mind you, your answer and feelings are no different than any other example in history that has had a host and “traitorous” ethnic minority in its midst.  These slights are remembered for eons.  Trust me, I know. 

Forgive when I say that I do not believe you in how you would act “if the roles were reversed”.  Sure, you can say that now, with logic and comfort at your side.  However, thrown into a situation where you are treated like crap and it has continued multi-generationally , where your children will be treated as you have been or possibly worse, then you begin to grow resentment and look for change.  I’ve read your writings for some time and I do not think simple monetary rewards would satiate you in our hypothetical scenario.  You would certainly grow tired of the inferior/superior game especially if you were on the short end of that stick.

Now, again, I do not condone “traitorous” behaviour though I can understand why it comes about in specific cases.  Things could have been done much differently on both sides to prevent such an outcome, though hindsight is everyone’s friend.  I’ll leave it at that and hopefully it may create a pause or two in thought in some people’s minds.

Posted by Guido on January 29, 2008, 04:03 AM | #

Matra,

I was writing to Svigor while you commented and I do believe my answer applies to you as well.  I surely do understand YOUR resentment, though all I wanted to bring to light is that it cuts both ways.  Believe me when I say I excoriate my fellow SE for thinking and behaving in the manner you describe and as it goes against the majority.  But I’m only one person. Believe me also when I say I am nowhere near proud to see Canada in the state that it is in and it is not what I have been fighting for.

Posted by Svigor on January 29, 2008, 04:09 AM | #

Forgive when I say that I do not believe you in how you would act “if the roles were reversed”.  Sure, you can say that now, with logic and comfort at your side.  However, thrown into a situation where you are treated like crap and it has continued multi-generationally , where your children will be treated as you have been or possibly worse, then you begin to grow resentment and look for change.

How can I say what I’d do if I wasn’t me?  But, being me, everything I wrote was totally on the level.  Doesn’t get more honest than that.  If it came to a point where I couldn’t prosper, I’d just run my ass home.  Now, if I was the child of immigrants, I suppose that’s a different question.  But, being me, I’d figure out a path other than ethnic warfare against the hosts.

Posted by Svigor on January 29, 2008, 04:11 AM | #

No, scratch that; being me, if I was a minority member in an alien land and without a long local history (i.e., founder stock) I’d repatriate to my homeland.

Posted by Svigor on January 29, 2008, 04:14 AM | #

Oh, I totally understand the thoughts and emotions behind all parties’ actions.  Hell, Anglo-Saxon bullshite has sold aliens on a bill of goods; promises that cannot be kept.  No doubt about that.  We tell blacks they’re our fault!  Ha!

Posted by Svigor on January 29, 2008, 04:16 AM | #

And I see no treachery, either.  Who the hell could make a promise of loyalty for aliens, Euro or not?  Their respective elites?  Don’t make me laugh!

Posted by Matra on January 29, 2008, 04:21 AM | #

However, thrown into a situation where you are treated like crap and it has continued multi-generationally , where your children will be treated as you have been or possibly worse, then you begin to grow resentment and look for change

Are you saying southern Europeans in Canada are in such a situation today? Even in the 50s that would be hard to believe. If it were true then most would have returned to their own country rather than living such horrible hopeless lives in somebody else’s country.

Besides a lot of working class WASPs could say they’ve had it tough and many still do. (I’m starting to think the Jewish media image of WASPs all being millionaire trust fund slackers and bullying jocks is how the average non-WASP must think of us!). People I know who worked more than one manual labour job at a time back in the 50s and 60s probably didn’t think they were on top oppressing anyone. In fact they are the ones who’ve lost more than anyone these past few decades.

Posted by silver on January 29, 2008, 05:01 AM | #

Are you saying southern Europeans in Canada are in such a situation today? Even in the 50s that would be hard to believe. If it were true then most would have returned to their own country rather than living such horrible hopeless lives in somebody else’s country.

S. Euro spectators at Australian Rules football matches were enduring taunts about “fucking wogs!” and “you dagos are goin’ ‘ome!” (a jeer uttered on victory over prominently wog-infested Carlton FC) well into the 90s.  I know, I was there. 

As I have mentioned before, by this time “wog” had largely lost its sting, and friendships and large groupings routinely cut across Anglo/Ethnic lines.  Nevertheless, for many the indignities continued to linger, and for many others they still do.

Posted by Matra on January 29, 2008, 05:36 AM | #

Here’s the comment that started off this argument: As some of us here have shown even many white ethnics retain residual animosity towards the Anglo-Saxons whom they imagine still run the show.

That was the offending line that led to this discussion. Leaving aside for a second whether such feelings are justifiable or not I think Guido has demonstrated the truth of the statement.

silver, don’t Aussie fans occasionally throw around terms like “pommie bastards” at cricket and rugby matches?

Silver, it’s a good thing Aussie tennis fans liked Ana Ivanovic (who wouldn’t?) or you might have been on here today pointing to Djokovic’s lack of popularity as an example of Anglo anti-Serb bias!

Posted by Prozium on January 29, 2008, 06:10 AM | #

Frankly, I’m tired of this nonsense.

I noticed the other day that Desmond was posting at Age of Treason. The same debate, which consumes thread after thread here, and has done so for as long as I can remember, had migrated over there. Muzzling only one of the participants (i.e., name/Anon) is unlikely to put a stop to it. Of course you already know this.

Posted by Desmond Jones on January 29, 2008, 06:47 AM | #

I noticed the other day that Desmond was posting at Age of Treason. The same debate, which consumes thread after thread here, and has done so for as long as I can remember, had migrated over there.

It’s even migrated to Ireland and this writer has not even posted there yet.

Hibernia Girl writes:

Yes, the Irish as immigrants were—and still are—frowned upon in places like the UK and the US. Four-and-a-half million Irish emigrated to the US in the late nineteenth- early twentieth-centuries alone—and they were often met with discrimination and “social intolerance” along the lines of “No Irish Need Apply” and so forth.

But, what you have to remember is that, at the time, the American population was largely Anglo with a good bit of Germanic thrown in (plus other groups, of course, but in smaller numbers). Why would they have wanted to see their society and culture that they had built up be changed into something more Irish (or anything else for that matter)? Why should anyone have had the right to demand that of them?

http://hiberniagirl.blogspot.com/2008/01/no-irish-need-apply.html

If only this was a paying gig.

Posted by name on January 29, 2008, 07:15 AM | #

GW,

You couldn’t meaningfully IP ban me if you wanted to. As I’m sure you realize that, your gesture rings hollow. Moreover, I have stated more than once I would cease posting at MR if asked.

Guido/Kubilai was not (is probably incapable of) arguing rationally and in good faith (at least on the topic of oppressed eye-ties). A post consisting of weak attempts at flames doesn’t call for reasoned discussion. I’d say my response was restrained.

He came - I think first as AA - to exercise a grudge against a former blogger.

This is, of course, incorrect. I’ve followed MR since it opened, well before Rienzi posted here.

As AA, I responded first to your and Phil Peterson’s pronouncements on America. I believe JW jumped into the thread later.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 29, 2008, 01:25 PM | #

“Guido/Kubilai” (—“name")

Kubilai, if that’s you, welcome back.  You never should’ve left, or Rnl either:  there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with Desmondism, which is one point of view among many legitimate ones and not the site’s official position (the site neither officially endorses Demondism nor officially rejects it; it does not officially address it and does not need to officially address it).  1) Just stand your ground, and 2) there is such a thing as a Med thin skin, which is unfortunate, as it makes Meds “cut off their noses to spite their faces” and side with what are ultimately their own mortal enemies just to stick it to the Nords (Dienekes Pontikos of course has this Med thin skin; Daniel who posts here does, a little; others too of course) and like (Jewish-encouraged) Negro thin skin it makes it seem as if you inwardly fear your critics are right.  (The Jews encourage the Negroes to have thin skin not out of regard for Negroes but as one more tool for advancing, as they see things, their own JN interests.  The ultra-thin skin the Jews are forever encouraging the Negroes to cultivate in themselves only harms the Negroes.  Do the Jews care about that?  Hell no.  They’re using, not helping, Negroes.) Med thin skin is a liability for Meds and a liability for Euros in general.  All meds should have no problem coming regularly to a site where Desmondism is regularly voiced, and freely participating, standing their ground exactly as the Desmondists stand theirs.  The bad news about Dienekes is his thin skin.  The good news about him is he stands his ground.

I’ll add, as I’m on record as saying, that I see Desmondism as perfectly legitimate.  I see David Stennett’s outlook as the opposite of Desmondism and leading ultimately to one-coffee-colored-worldism.  Racial/ethnocultural localism, particularism, pride, and the “us-them” attitude are normal, healthy, and good.

Posted by jrackell on January 29, 2008, 06:41 PM | #

Forgive when I say that I do not believe you in how you would act “if the roles were reversed”.  Sure, you can say that now, with logic and comfort at your side.  However, thrown into a situation where you are treated like crap and it has continued multi-generationally , where your children will be treated as you have been or possibly worse...[ad infinitum] ~Guido

This is the wrong comparison to make of course. It’s not valid to compare how Guido’s coethnics were treated in an ethnically homogeneous Anglo-Saxon country (eg Anita Roddick’s belly aching about how she was hard done by by Brits - who disliked her garlic perfume).

The role reversal and correct comparison would be to imagine “my” treatment if I and my coethnics emigrated en masse to Italy or god knows where in Southern Europe (Albania, anyone?) in 1880, 1920, 1945 and then acted like complete bleeding ingrates.  I don’t think I’d be very welcome. 

If the correct comparison is made it seems like the treatment afforded white ethnic Canadians and Americans was quite generous, as I’m sure many of them would agree.

Posted by Matra on January 29, 2008, 07:57 PM | #

JRackell, I’ve mentioned that comparison several times but I don’t think there’s ever been a response.

I’m glad Guido’s tone changed in his more recent posts but he still seems to be saying that “Meds” should be able to play the victim card just like non-whites yet still be considered white “brothers” by the Anglo-Saxon population. At least that’s how it came across.

Kubilai, if that’s you, welcome back.  You never should’ve left, or Rnl either

I agree with that.  I’ve been annoyed at some of the things I’ve read here but I accept that there is no party line.

I noticed the other day that Desmond was posting at Age of Treason. The same debate, which consumes thread after thread here, and has done so for as long as I can remember, had migrated over there.

That it creates so much discussion and disagreement should make those Americans who think “whiteness” is everything reconsider.

Posted by Guessedworker on January 29, 2008, 11:09 PM | #

name: You couldn’t meaningfully IP ban me if you wanted to. As I’m sure you realize that, your gesture rings hollow.

I am crediting you with a sense of honour and, if you had not noticed, with intelligence.  In other words, I expect you to understand that the “gesture” is down to you to make, not me.  If you think that rings hollow, then clearly I have misjudged you.  But, actually, I do not think I have.

As AA, I responded first to your and Phil Peterson’s pronouncements on America.

I make no bones of the fact that my understanding of the issues is deepening and will, I hope, continue to deepen. 

Prozium: I noticed the other day that Desmond was posting at Age of Treason.

Here is the Age of Treason thread.  I was present towards the end of the thread, trying to light up the two great and complex obstacles that lie across the path of American racial loyalists - one of which also blocks the progress of their brothers in the ancient European homelands.

I agree with name/Northerner that “Whiteness” is, in America, not yet an ark for the time of Flood.  I want it to be with all my heart, because I can’t see intra-European separatism as a very sturdy craft either.  The difference between me (and JW, I believe) and Northerner is that we at least approach the issue with creative intent.  Ultimately, schism is not conducive to the outcome all of us desire to see.

But I am English and only too aware of my physical detachment.  I don’t want to play the dilittante.  The issue is one for Americans alone, but insomuch as it is batted back and forth on this website let it be done with more responsibility that has been the case here.

Posted by Kubilai on January 30, 2008, 03:49 AM | #

John Rackell states:

The role reversal and correct comparison would be to imagine “my” treatment if I and my coethnics emigrated en masse to Italy or god knows where in Southern Europe (Albania, anyone?) in 1880, 1920, 1945 and then acted like complete bleeding ingrates.  I don’t think I’d be very welcome.

If the correct comparison is made it seems like the treatment afforded white ethnic Canadians and Americans was quite generous, as I’m sure many of them would agree.

With all due respect to Mr Rackell (and Matra), this is NOT an apt mental exercise as you automatically take the stance that : 1) your behaviour is of “ingrates”, hence you are the instigator and 2) this in turn leads to you being unwelcome. 

The more appropriate exercise in order to gain any insight into the other side would be to imagine: 1) Arriving at a place that has indicated it wanted and/or needed you.  2) After arriving, you find you are verbally and even physically abused, discriminated against and disrespected...ad infinitum.

Let’s talk specifics where we must fully exercise our imaginations.  Tell me now, would Desmond or Northie, Matra, Svigor, Rackell etc honestly be able to swallow their pride and take abuse, in some cases, on a daily basis where you are treated as the lessers of society?  If the people here are like their personas, then I highly doubt it.  Svigor made the claim yesterday that he would keep his sights on the goal at hand and know why he was there.  Fair enough for day one and week one and possibly year one.  Then what?  When you have no other choice and going back is not an option for a multitude of reasons.  Matra made a brief claim about how the situation wasn’t so bad in the 1950s or something to that effect.  Two of my uncles who were in their 20s around that time tell me that they in fact were treated as mentioned above, Matra.  Same goes for my father in law who came as a newly minted physician in a residency program in the 60s.  They don’t hold a bitter resentment of the time and against WASPs, probably because they are all educated men, though they cannot forget it completely either.

Now, I’m sure the truth lies somewhere between the above two examples (rackell’s and mine), in my opinion.  Some WASPs were pricks in their treatment of other ethnics and some ethnics truly were ingrates.  My point is to allow for SOME understanding on the WASP side without claiming “victim” status, which certainly was not my intention, as Matra thought.  I also want to make the point that the WASP majority does not have the entire claim to victim either, as Desmond always goes on about every chance he gets.  That was my point with the two sides argument.  How much each side perceives the damage done to them is a gray area, however in this case I have to side with WASPs that having a country essentially brought to its knees would be the ones claiming greater damage.  Though in all fairness, SE like myself are not willing to accept the entire blame for it as it is multifactorial as we all know though some conveniently forget.

I could go on and on, as the dynamics of this is quite fascinating and very intricate, though that’s about all I’m interested in commenting on now.  Though I must agree with Svigor in that it does take a particular moral character to be vindictive against a host.  My peeps were not treated great though they still managed to make Anglo friends even if not super tight friends and they would never consider being purposefully spiteful etc.  As for voting Liberal and then ethnic Liberal in order to gain the goodies promised by the promisers, that’s a whole different story.  But then, how many people truly know what they are voting for?  All we have to do is take a glimpse at the US to see how informed the voters are about the candidates.  Add no internet and no formal education to many ethnics in Canada and you get herd voting.  Certainly nothing to be proud of but it is by no means a clear indication that it was done out of pure spite.

Posted by Desmond Jones on January 30, 2008, 06:37 AM | #

Two of my uncles who were in their 20s around that time tell me that they in fact were treated as mentioned above, Matra.  Same goes for my father in law who came as a newly minted physician in a residency program in the 60s.

Amazing, the Greeks were treated so badly in Canada, that not only did his father come, but his two brothers came as well. Maybe the whole Greek village came. Didn’t they know that the Anglo shits were treating them like dirt. Didn’t they know of the discriminating and perfidious nature of those WASP pricks?

And were they “all” really invited?

...the uninfluential Citizenship and Immigration portfolio was assigned in May 1958 to Ellen Fairclough...Unfortunately, Fairclough’s political fortunes took a drubbing during her first two years in Citizenship and Immigration, largely because of problems triggered by a deepening recession and the large influx of unskilled sponsored workers and sponsored family workers without paid employment. Family sponsorship was undermining attempts to relate immigration more closely to labour-market requirements. Furthermore, when sponsored family members became a public charge, municipal welfare costs rose, creating some resentment. In March 1959, therefore, the government embarked on a brave attempt to curb the escalating sponsorship movement, made up largely of unskilled Italian relatives from southern Italy.

Did the SE’s say, well ya know, times are hard, this is a country founded by another ethny, maybe we should cool it, and limit sponsorship to our immediate families?

Nope. They performed exactly like every other immigrant group performs. They selfishly pursued their own ethnic interests.

When the new regulation limiting sponsorship to immediate family members was announced a month later, both the Liberal opposition and Canada’s ethnic communities objected strenuously. Especially vocal were Italian Canadians who were well represented in Mrs. Fairclough’s own riding. Defending her government’s action, the embattled Minister informed the House of Commons that the backlog of sponsored applicants had grown from some 77,158 as of 31 December 1955 to 131,785 as of 28 February 1959. From Italy alone, the numbers had soared from approximately 12,000 at the end of 1954 and 23,000 at the end of 1955 to about 63,000 as of 28 February 1959.

So dear reader, you might ask, what was the outcome of Ms. Fairclough’s restrictionist battle?

Canada abolishes its racist immigration policy

The reform was introduced to the public on 19 January 1962 when Ellen Fairclough tabled new regulations in the House that virtually eliminated racial discrimination as a major feature of Canada’s immigration policy. Henceforth any unsponsored immigrants who had the requisite education, skill, or other qualifications were to be considered suitable for admission, irrespective of colour, race, or national origin, provided (1) they had a specific job waiting for them in Canada or were able to support themselves until they found employment, (2) they were not criminals or terrorists, and (3) they did not suffer from a disease that endangered public health. Only one vestige of true discrimination remained and that was the provision that allowed European immigrants and immigrants from the Americas to sponsor a wider range of relatives. This clause would be removed five years later, however, in the immigration regulations of 1967.

And no, those of us Anglos who are not comatose, HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN!

Posted by Hibernia Girl on January 30, 2008, 08:18 AM | #

It’s even migrated to Ireland and this writer has not even posted there yet.

You’re welcome any time, Des. 

What I can’t understand is why anyone can be surprised that one group of people might get annoyed if another, different group of people move in en masse to their territory.  This is just basic biology we’re talking about.  Most (all?) animals will defend their territories against interlopers.

So many Irish today—in particular those who subscribe to all the modern, PC, multicultural nonsense—like to point to all the hard treatment and discrimination that the Irish experienced (experience) in places like Britain and the States when they want to make an argument for why we (Ireland) should welcome in hoards of immigrants from around the world.

It’s just nonsensical.

The Irish may be white, but we’re a far shot from being Anglo (just look at our average IQ and our religious belief for a start).  Why should we be surprised if Anglos didn’t/don’t want us around?  I’m sure Saudis or Japanese or Botswanans wouldn’t want hoards of us around, either.

Posted by Lurker on January 30, 2008, 09:37 AM | #

“So many Irish today—in particular those who subscribe to all the modern, PC, multicultural nonsense—like to point to all the hard treatment and discrimination that the Irish experienced (experience) in places like Britain and the States when they want to make an argument for why we (Ireland) should welcome in hoards of immigrants from around the world.”

Ive heard two Irish women I know make pretty much that argument to me in the last few months, though one seems more open to the idea, from me, that perhaps its not the best thing for Ireland (or the Irish).

Posted by ben tillman on January 30, 2008, 01:22 PM | #

imagine: 1) Arriving at a place that has indicated it wanted and/or needed you.

Places don’t “indicate”.  People do.  Could the immigrants justifiably believe that the “indicators” spoke for the nation?

Posted by Svigor on January 30, 2008, 08:55 PM | #

The more appropriate exercise in order to gain any insight into the other side would be to imagine: 1) Arriving at a place that has indicated it wanted and/or needed you.  2) After arriving, you find you are verbally and even physically abused, discriminated against and disrespected...ad infinitum.

I’ve never bought into this.  Any man worth the title knows that peoples in an alien land will not want or need him, and that his economic immigration is self-serving and likely at the expense of one native or another.

In short, he knows he’ll be a guest.  If he doesn’t he’s an addle-pated fool.

What do house guests do when abused?  Start fighting back for control of his host’s home?  Or simply leave?  What do burglars do differently?

Posted by Kubilai on February 01, 2008, 04:55 AM | #

Fascinating.

Amazing, the Greeks were treated so badly in Canada, that not only did his father come, but his two brothers came as well. Maybe the whole Greek village came. Didn’t they know that the Anglo shits were treating them like dirt. Didn’t they know of the discriminating and perfidious nature of those WASP pricks?

Why bother with accuracy when broad brush bullshit looks much better with a heaping of “no one really gives a fuck”.  This particular Anglo WASP “shitprick” doesn’t bother to get the details down regarding my history or why there was a spike in immigration and subsequent calls to reduce it in the 50s.  He just “knows” it was the stinking wops or some other SE that was at the root of the problem, in turn victimizing him yet again.  In this day and age, Jones doesn’t even try to hide his contempt when it is wise to, yet he expects everyone to believe that back in the heyday of the unbridled and unmuzzled Anglo in Canada, things weren’t “that bad” for non-Anglos?  Hahahaha Riiiight.  Purely rhetorical Jones.  No answer is necessary.  If you don’t mind, I’ll believe my uncles and my father in law on how bad it was instead of taking your word for it. 

Could the immigrants justifiably believe that the “indicators” spoke for the nation?

Ben, I understand what you are saying.  Yet, you know as well as I that when a government gives the go ahead for more immigration or what not, most people will view it as the “final word” on the matter.  People of all stripes are just not that refined to being asking such nuanced questions.

I’ve never bought into this.  Any man worth the title knows that peoples in an alien land will not want or need him, and that his economic immigration is self-serving and likely at the expense of one native or another.

In short, he knows he’ll be a guest.

Ummm, not sure if I agree 100% with this.  I can agree with it if the situation was similar to what happens in the Arab world currently, such as the UAE as a specific example.  Migrant workers know with absolute certainty that they are ONLY guests and have no rights to citizenship, period.  People continue to flock there to work and over time eventually leave or die and get shipped back.  That is not how it was sold in the west.