Tired Liberals Confront Population Growth

Posted by Bill on July 31, 2010, 08:55 PM | #

I can remember asking some time back, on a thread such as this.

When Western civilisation has been destroyed, what sort of a world did Liberals envisage replacing it with?  What would rise from the ashes?  IOW’s what was plan B?

If I remember correctly, the consensus of opinion was there is no plan B, the only goal being is to destroy what exists.

(Admittedly from my perspective, communitarianism was not on my radar (unheard of) at that time.)

It all sort of confirmed my opinion.  All that we see is cruel hoax, a weapon to to achieve their ends, they themselves don’t believe a word of it.

I have no idea where they think they will end up.

Posted by PF on July 31, 2010, 09:52 PM | #

Bill,

They aren’t destroying anything, in their minds. They are selectively removing certain social constraints and barriers which - their models assure them - are not essential for society to continue functioning.

Thus you can entirely remove western man’s territoriality/aggressive instincts without introducing negative reprocussions.

You can also remove our ability to condition the young according to traditional values of character development and non-promiscuity, without negative repricussions. (how the fuck do you spell that word, BTW?)

The ‘liberal’ at the moment you meet him is like a person ‘crashing out’ of a dream state into reality, like a skydiver approaching the ground very quickly. Because he has saddled himself up with our social hive-mind’s programming, and is determined to be a dutiful little servant of these ideas, but as he attempts to make an intellectual stand for himself is confronted with the repracussions of the realities his ideology has attempted to engineer. In the form of cities with collapsing infrastructure, “social tensions” aka race riots, etc.

Really if you catch a liberal, you have caught a person in a moment of transition. There is no way to learn about the world and not depart from that ideological settlement. To open one’s eyes is already to leave for other shores, however clumsily they will reason themselves into some kind of conservativism or some new justification for why things dont work. So increasing degrees of awareness force one’s departure from this ideological position, and those at ground zero are asleep, believe in everything theyre told, and/or are indulging in various forms of denial or such heavy filtering of reality that it basically means the same thing. But how, then, is it an intellectual position at all, since in proportion as people intellectualize themselves and develop in the intellectual realm, they depart from it?

The answer is that people inhabit that settlement because of inertia subsequent to their heavy social conditioning and if they tell you they are still there, its because they dont have access to thinking, experience, or enough honesty to leave that place. Almost all liberals are aware of their own moving away from liberalism, and their existential angst isn’t only about cities that aren’t safe at night i.e. the reprucussions of their policies, but also because they dont know where their next philosophical meal is coming from or where they will end up sleeping that night (where in the world of ideas they will be driven to post-liberalism, I mean). They know reality is giving them the order to decamp and get the fuck outta there, and this is a large part of their moral tension and worryingness-about-being-always-on-the-verge-of-betraying-their-ideas. In other words a liberal in western societies isn’t a political position as much as it a step in the path towards increasing awareness of the world. Its just the whole sensibility and lifestyle is wrapped in ideas, so these ‘thinkers’ are really ‘lifestyle and social-signaling addicts’.

At least, that is what I have just typed.

Posted by Captainchaos on July 31, 2010, 10:01 PM | #

When the real crunch comes it is Dare’s conviction that the Russkies will hand over their increasingly precious natural resources and living space to Western Europeans instead of using these things to lord it over WEs, or at a minimum keep said for themselves.  LOL!

If America goes under England will be Russia’s bitch.  Count on it.

Posted by Notus Wind on July 31, 2010, 10:14 PM | #

Bill,

PF is completely correct, liberals are as sincere in their beliefs as they are in denial about them.

Posted by Dan Dare on July 31, 2010, 10:16 PM | #

I think it is particularly difficult for Americans, being raised with the prospect of endless vistas and a cornucopia of resources, not to mention the credo of the melting pot, ‘nation of immigrants’ and E pluribus unum, to embrace a philosophy of shortage, constraint and exclusion.

These two specimens here, although obviously highly-educated and even urbane, default to the cornucopian rather than the malthusian, taking solace in tired old cliché about democracy and women’s rights, as if either were likely to increase the earth’s stock of fossil fuel or retard the population growth in the third world.

False prophets, indeed.

Posted by Guessedworker on July 31, 2010, 10:33 PM | #

George and John seem to be very keen to demonstrate that they are real nice guys, very “in” with the liberal zeitgeist and the whole urban chic thing, very cool with it, and don’t really have anything serious to say about it.  Or if they can maybe think of something, they don’t have enough energy to mount the argument right now.  Later maybe.  Over a glass of chilled white wine and that crab salad with a side of avocado mouse they always enjoy.

George is a year young than I am, and John two years younger.  I would be utterly ashamed to be so eviscerated by the age through which I have lived.  One can see from the weakness in their faces that these men were never equipped with the fight gene.  They are like girls.  No wonder Jewish political products swept them away back in their student days when they thought they were radical (which, of course, they never were).  What is in them that could possibly resist?

It’s good to see how weak in terms of life-signs the creatures of the left, the surviving believers, truly are.  Thank you for the education, Notus Wind.

Posted by Notus Wind on July 31, 2010, 10:43 PM | #

Dan,

I think it is particularly difficult for Americans, being raised with the prospect of endless vistas and a cornucopia of resources, not to mention the credo of the melting pot, ‘nation of immigrants’ and E pluribus unum, to embrace a philosophy of shortage, constraint and exclusion.

All true, although I would argue that the deeper reason for why Americans don’t gravitate toward the latter is that we lack a Right wing tradition that is both robust and explicit.  For example, the concept of Whiteness was made explicit in our founding documents but proved to be insufficiently robust as a concept for the anchoring of America’s national identity.

These two specimens here, although obviously highly-educated and even urbane, default to the cornucopian rather than the malthusian, taking solace in tired old cliché about democracy and women’s rights, as if either were likely to increase the earth’s stock of fossil fuel or retard the population growth in the third world.

False prophets, indeed.

Indeed they are.

Posted by Notus Wind on July 31, 2010, 10:50 PM | #

GW,

Or if they can maybe think of something, they don’t have enough energy to mount the argument right now.  Later maybe.  Over a glass of chilled white wine and that crab salad with a side of avocado mouse they always enjoy.

Hence my use of the “Tired” adjective.

It’s good to see how weak in terms of life-signs the creatures of the left, the surviving believers, truly are.  Thank you for the education, Notus Wind.

You’re welcome!

I hold these people in the deepest contempt for their intellectual surrender, moral cowardice, and overall weakness.  They are more than worthy of our derision.

I expect their mandate from heaven to be wrenched from their limp hands shortly.

Posted by Rotund Gourmand on August 01, 2010, 07:45 AM | #

‘Avocado mouse’.......hmmmm never heard of that before, but I do know the Romans enjoyed partaking of the edible dormouse - which they introduced to England for culinary purposes.Apparently, the Romans loved nothing better than to fatten the said dormice with hazlel nuts.
Perhaps avocado mouse is a strange New York fusion dish, involving Mexican influence, with mice being fattened up with slices of avocado.

Posted by Bill on August 01, 2010, 08:47 AM | #

Not long back I watched a TV programme centred around country matters.  There was this piece about when battery hens had reached peak eggs and what was the future for them.

It seems most (reduced not viable anymore) unproductive hens head for the supermarket shelves clinically shrink wrapped.

However, as there is some life and productivity still remaining (very much reduced) some are sold on to the organic farmer.

The scene cuts away to an idyllic country farm setting where these fortunate few battery hens have been spared and relocated.  What amazes the staff is the hens start behaving like hens do, given total free range they begin scratching around and grubbing for whatever they grub around for.  Their feathers and demeanor, which before were bedraggled and manky now start to perk up, and in very short order regain their natural gleaming plumage.

I suppose the moral of the story could be they live happily ever after.

Anyway, despite the number of previous generations of these surviving hens which had gone before, (living the degraded life of a battery hen,) these birds reverted to type as if to the manner born - which is of course, exactly what they were.

I wonder if these farmers were liberals?

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The government of Britain have decided to scrap the open all hours liquor licencing law, which the previous New Labour government had introduced to bring about (socially engineer) a continental style culture to the plebs of Britain.  Instead, what they found was the streets of our major towns and cities were disfigured with hundreds of ‘bladdered’* young people rolling about in the gutter totally plastered in the early hours of the weekend.  These included very scantily clad females (in all weathers) Not a pretty site!

Violence and vomiting reigned.  Masses of police were tied up at weekends (on overtime?) trying to keep a lid on things.

Our liberal BBC (MSM) call it binge drinking and guess what? They are horrified as to how their civilising initiative has turned out, not only are they horrified they are equally mystified, how could such a situation arise?

* Bladdered.  Paralytic drunk.  In word currently favoured by one of our most popular soaps to illustrate scene as described.

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Posted by Notus Wind on July 31, 2010, 10:14 PM | #

Bill,

PF is completely correct, liberals are as sincere in their beliefs as they are in denial about them.

Hence liberal unfettered freedom leads to wholesale tyranny.  Prison is freedom.

It’s going to be bloody.

Posted by Guessedworker on August 01, 2010, 09:10 AM | #

Rotund One,

Typical.  I wasn’t sure what might be considered chic gastonomy among American liberals, so I googled, got this:

http://liberalfoodie.blogspot.com/2009/03/art-of-food-at-carnegie-in-covington.html

... and pasted the line with a missing s.  Maybe these people are very liberal, and two s’s together are simply not acceptable.  After all, there’s almost nowhere a downtrodden Nazi can dine out nowourdays:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5275866.stm

Posted by Leon Haller on August 01, 2010, 10:13 AM | #

I’m going to continue our discussion from notuswind’s last post here, as it seems relevant to this one, too.

Yes, I would argue that this vision has run its course because we can now clearly see that it ends in an abyss that includes the destruction of Western peoples, rejection of traditional society in all its forms, and irrevocable degradation of the Earth.  From a Christian perspective it is not hard to identify that this system is adversarial to all that is good, which means that it is empowered by spiritual energies that will always be with us in this life. -notuswind

My point was that neither liberalism nor especially socialism ever had much real value, especially from a traditional Western (which means Christian/classical or Greco-Roman) philosophical perspective. Socialism violates Divine Creation, the link with the past, human nature, and the structure of human action. It was always doomed first to fail in its ideals, and later to descend into (from the Western view) barbarism. Liberalism did not violate the structure of human action, or some aspects of human nature, but in rendering the Divine and the past irrelevant, it sowed the seeds for the deracinated ‘milksop’ agenda it has become - and agenda which is racially unsustainable (ie leads to inability to defend territory, and ultimate genetic disappearance). 

All I am looking for is a new vision (or philosophy) that will harmonize the timeless truths of our existence with the many changes that the modern world has brought.  To my knowledge this has never been done. -notuswind

But from a conservative perspective, this is unnecessary. Simply defend tradition, prudently removing what is clearly no longer acceptable to most (eg, total male control of females), while ‘updating’ our principles to cover heretofore unprecedented threats (eg, the combination of the global population bomb with modern communications and transportation technologies, leaving the West exposed to immigration invasions without new national preservationist legislation, which in turn now requires the incorporation of race realism into traditional political philosophy).

Posted by Leon Haller on August 01, 2010, 10:31 AM | #

I think the following is worth restating here, too:

Let’s cut to basics, shall we? The (sociobiological) problems are simple to state:

1. overpopulation generally (threatening biosphere)
2. overpopulation of the wrong kinds
3. dysgenics (amongst everyone, including whites, except possibly Chinese)
4. race-replacement in the West
5. Judeo-ethnic dominance of power levers in US; disproportionate influence within “global power elite”.

Posted by Leon Haller on August 01, 2010, 10:41 AM | #

Just watched the video. Hilarious! Tired, liberal weaklings, indeed! Neither intellectual nor even much physical or emotional vigor. Oh, how many of these types I have encountered over the years. No rootedness, no real psychic grounding except in desperate, self-congratulatory cliches about ‘hopefulness’ and ‘optimism’. Fools (the kind who appropriately usually get killed first in action and horror movies).

I must say, I was singularly unimpressed with their articulateness as well. These are fairly big names in science writing. I would have expected them to be far more forceful and insightful in their responses. I think I could destroy these chumps in a live debate.

Posted by Wexler on August 01, 2010, 02:40 PM | #

I don’t know, but round-brimmed hats are pretty pretentious, unless you’re working out in the sun, or on a boat.

(Just a heads-up, ya know ... presentation and all.)

Fitting though: a silly look for a silly thing.

Alright, no more jokes, i know, i know, this is serious.

Posted by James Bowery on August 02, 2010, 05:26 AM | #

The population optimists believe that there can be no substantial genetic selection for fecundity that overrides their hypothesized causes of slower population growth in a whole ecology.

They achieve this by worrying about being called Nazis.

To them anything is better than being called a Nazi—even destroying the biosphere.

Posted by John on August 03, 2010, 05:59 PM | #

“George is a year young than I am, and John two years younger.  I would be utterly ashamed to be so eviscerated by the age through which I have lived.  One can see from the weakness in their faces that these men were never equipped with the fight gene.”

How can anyone who came of age in the 60s look at the world around them, remember back to his youth and not know something has gone terribly wrong? A quadriplegic in a bedsit in Slough with no TV or internet connection should be able to see it, if nothing else, in the surly attitude of the Jamaican nurse aide who takes care of him.

Posted by John Horgan on August 03, 2010, 07:21 PM | #

Well, now and then while googling my own name, looking for interesting responses to my schtick, I come across something truly odd, like a bunch of old white supremacist fools congratulating themselves on their physical and mental superiority when clearly their summed IQs don’t top 100. You guys desperately hope for doomsday, the apocalypse, because you’re all abject pathetic losers in this world. Peace and love and hippy beads, John Horgan

Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 03, 2010, 07:49 PM | #

You’re embarrassing yourself, Professor Horgan.  You already did it enough in that video — no need to add to it.

Posted by John on August 03, 2010, 07:57 PM | #

I don’t know which is worse, “a bunch of old white supremacist fools congratulating themselves on their physical and mental superiority when clearly their summed IQs don’t top 100” or a washed up, fatuous old Marxist haranguing a bunch of old white supremacist fools…

Your pejorative “white supremacist” does not describe us. No one here wishes to rule over “people of colour” We prefer they rule over themselves. Merely wanting freedom of association and contract, separation and considering oneself and one’s people to have legitimate ethno-political interests does not make one a “supremacist”. Neither does holding that races have non-trivial phenotypical differneces. If I thought my ethnic group were inferior in every way to every other ethnic group, I would still care more about them than other ethnic groups. That is normal (and non-controversial for any other ethnic group aside from Orientals, perhaps).

Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 03, 2010, 08:04 PM | #

Since the advent of the internet we can reply to their lies.  Before circa the late ‘90s to the year 2000 or so, they controlled all public flow of ideas.  With a cultural-marxist iron fist.

But no more.

Which has them uneasy.  Worried.  Scared.  Because they know, and we know, and they know that we know, that when we can reply publicly, they lose, for the simple reason that truth always wins out in the end and we, not they, are backed by the truth.

Simple as that.

We’re in the ascendant, Professor.  And you?  I’ll give you three guesses what direction you’re headed in.  (It’s OK, I’ll give you a minute to quickly go take the strongest anti-migraine pill you have before I tell you .......)

Posted by PF on August 03, 2010, 08:04 PM | #

He’s in that part of his map where the painted monster is.

a bunch of old white supremacist fools congratulating themselves on their physical and mental superiority when clearly their summed IQs don’t top 100. You guys desperately hope for doomsday, the apocalypse, because you’re all abject pathetic losers in this world.

...so thats how they’re drawing it nowadays.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 03, 2010, 08:06 PM | #

Excellently put by John in his second paragraph, a couple above.  Good work.

Posted by Notus Wind on August 03, 2010, 08:13 PM | #

John Horgan,

Well, now and then while googling my own name, looking for interesting responses to my schtick, I come across something truly odd, like a bunch of old white supremacist fools congratulating themselves on their physical and mental superiority when clearly their summed IQs don’t top 100. You guys desperately hope for doomsday, the apocalypse, because you’re all abject pathetic losers in this world. Peace and love and hippy beads, John Horgan

You have my invitation to answer the riddle posed in George’s comment about how the Left cared a great deal about population growth a generation ago but not now.  Furthermore, it’s not as if the Left abandoned this cause because all the problems of overpopulation have been resolved, that they haven’t has been made abundantly clear by the multitude of resource scarcities that are projected for this century.  So what happened?

By the way, the average person who visits these kinds of websites is a good deal younger than what you might expect.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 03, 2010, 08:53 PM | #

“the average person who visits these kinds of websites is a good deal younger than what you might expect.” (—Notus Wind)

Right but mainly a good deal smarter.  About twice as smart on average as the specimens who frequent places like The Daily Joss House and Puffington the Magic Negro Post.

Posted by Gudmund on August 04, 2010, 12:01 AM | #

I come across something truly odd, like a bunch of old white supremacist fools congratulating themselves on their physical and mental superiority when clearly their summed IQs don’t top 100.
>John Horgan

Don’t flatter yourself, old man.  I’m half your age and have twice your intelligence.  You are a spineless old creep who has only reached “the heights” thanks to your willingness to toe the establishment’s line, and don’t think for a moment that fact has escaped any of us.  You’re such a pathetic intellectual wreck that you can’t even address the points made here and can only resort to ad hominem attacks with the intellectual sophistication of a frat-boy drunk - my guess is that if you could be bothered to respond it would be along the lines of “it’s racist, therefore it’s wrong, because I say so.” Your kind is ever so transparent.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 04, 2010, 01:05 AM | #

Excellent summing-up of the facts there by Gudmund just above.  Nice job.

Posted by Gudmund on August 04, 2010, 01:20 AM | #

Excellent summing-up of the facts there by Gudmund just above.  Nice job.
>Fred

There are those who say that venomous comments like mine reflect badly on the site.  To them I say:  Self-righteous, condescending jerks bring that out in me.  The enemies of our people do not deserve to be molly-coddled.

Posted by Guessedworker on August 04, 2010, 09:32 AM | #

Why would John be googling his name?  A bit vain, isn’t it.

Posted by John on August 04, 2010, 10:05 AM | #

The SLPC has a piece on “nativists” and the environmental movement here. http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/07/27/new-splc-report-nativists-and-the-environmental-movement/

The phrase “white supremacist” appears about 10 times in the comments. I posted this:

I can’t understand why the white supremacists wouldn’t encourage immigration from all over the third world. How can you rule over, exploit, discriminate against and oppress people if they’re half a world away from you?

Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 04, 2010, 12:08 PM | #

Excellent point by John just above:  if we were “white supremacists,” therefore if we wanted to rule over, exploit, discriminate against and oppress people, we’d want them all here with us in order to do that to them.  Can’t very well do it if they’re all off happily living in their own countries and we in ours, can we.  Ergo the “white supremacist” label doesn’t appear to hold up under the most superficial scrutiny does it ........  But we already knew that.  Already knew we were dealing with liars, Euro-haters, communists, genocidalists, tyrants, and their misfit race-traitor allies, fellow travellers, hangers-on, low opportunists, bought men, and assorted creeps, freaks, mutants, and mental retards.