Young Australians finally fed up with Muslim arrogance and aggression

Posted by Mark Richardson on December 11, 2005, 05:04 AM | #

Here’s a good article I don’t think has been linked to yet explaining why the young Aussie men took a stand:

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,17483188-5001021,00.html

There seems to have been a lot of sexual harassment of local women, as well as the bashings of the surf lifesavers. One of the local women interviewed stated that she now won’t go to the beach alone.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 11, 2005, 05:57 AM | #

The details cited in the article Mark linked are pretty outrageous—I found most nauseating where the Moslems called little girls taking swimming lessons “tarts” and harrassed a pregnant woman.  Moslem men can’t seem to deal with the sight of females of any age or condition who aren’t fully covered from head to toe.  You’re going to get that behavior from them as long as you permit them to immigrate to Western countries in large numbers:  it’s unavoidable.  I deeply respect the Moslem religion (as I do all religions) but reading stories like this, you realize it simply doesn’t “transplant” well:  it needs to stay where it is, in Moslem society, and not try to go elsewhere.
______
Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!

Posted by Steve Edwards on December 11, 2005, 06:41 AM | #

I have nothing much against Muslims either...when they are left free to do as they like in their own countries. We have nothing to prove to the world by permitting mass immigration, and absolutely nothing to gain.

Posted by Anonymous on December 11, 2005, 06:46 AM | #

If Kim Beasley and Labor get their way they’ll fill the rest of Australia with Arabs too. Thanks to the current executive, however, it won’t be quite so easy for them to change the flag, which appears to be taking on a whole new meaning among young Australians. At least not without a popular vote. Previously it was the intention of Labor to scuttle the current flag but this appears politically possible in the medium term.

Posted by Jihan on December 11, 2005, 06:56 AM | #

The first thing I would like to point out here is that the guys who carried out all these abuses DO NOT represent all of the people who are of lebanese decent. I was born in Australia but have lived most of my life in Lebanon, when I came back here to study I couldn’t believe how these so called ‘wogs’ behave. Personally, I think it’s embarrassing. Their attitude would never be tolerated in Lebanon. In fact, they would be marginalised in the country.

Allow me to point out that these guys were born and raised in Australia, so whatever their ideologies may be they do not correspond to that of other Lebanese (in Lebanon) nor to that of Australians. I believe they are lost in between both cultures and I just wish their parents would instil some manners in them. As for the issue of religion, it is quite contradictory to hear the media and members of the Australian community refer to them as Muslims and then state that they have nothing against the religion.  By using the expression “these Muslims” you’re referring to all Muslims - whether you mean it or not, that’s the impression that is being portrayed. Refraining from using such stereotypical terms to pin point trouble-makers would reflect respect towards other followers. These gangsters’ actions are un-islamic and I just wish they could wake up to themselves. But it is up to both sides to give and take and violence is definitely not part of the solution.

I don’t mean this in a rude way, but if you haven’t been to the Middle East and have not witnessed how Muslims live then you have no right to criticise and generalise.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 11, 2005, 07:22 AM | #

“Allow me to point out that these guys were born and raised in Australia” (—Jihan)

How do you know that? 

“if you haven’t been to the Middle East and have not witnessed how Muslims live then you have no right to criticise and generalise.” (—Jihan)

Obviously Moslem men aren’t harrassing Moslem women in the Middle East—if they tried they’d get their throats slit or something.  There’s some factor that keeps them under control there which is absent in the West.  That something is Moslem society in general, in all its detail and tradition, including ... well, including getting their throats slit if they tried harrassing Moslem women over there.  That society and its built-in controls on men’s behavior can’t be imported lock, stock, and barrel to the West, so what happens when Moslem men come here is they feel no restraints and run amok when they see Western girls and women.  They don’t know how to behave.  If you deny this, Jihan, please explain why this sort of unacceptable behavior on the part of Moslem males (teenage boys and grown men) is the story we keep hearing coming out of all Euro and Western societies where there’s been a large Moslem influx.
______

-- “All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.”—Enoch Powell
-- Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!
-- Balkanization is better than Brazilianization!
-- The 1965 Immigration-Holocaust Act:  the gift that keeps on giving!
-- What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the usual suspects!

Posted by anonymous on December 11, 2005, 07:46 AM | #

The ubiquitous low IQ and concomitant problems of impulse control and sexual and physical violence among Arabs is well-established for those who care to look.

Posted by Jihan on December 11, 2005, 08:08 AM | #

Hi Fred,

Interesting question....I’ve been trying to figure that out myself for the past 4 years. Well, with regards to your first question, I know these guys were born and raised in Australia due to the fact that they can barely speak Arabic. When they go back to Lebanon for a visit they have difficulties communicating with the rest. And if they do speak a little Arabic, it’s really broken. Another thing, if you go to Lebanon and see Lebanese guys there you will find a HUGE difference in the way they behave, dress and, most importantly, talk!

As for the issue of Muslim men not harassing women in the Middle East, of course it happens!! and a lot of them get away with it. but then again that happens everywhere but in different ways. And no, they don’t get their throats slit...the reason why their general misbehaviour is not tolerated has a lot to do with disrespect. I remember on Anzac day I watched on TV how a group of “middle eastern” guys were cursing at the police. I couldn’t believe that the police couldn’t do anything about it!!! if that happened in Lebanon they would’ve been in deeeeeeep trouble. I think what they need here is stricter laws.

Going back to your main question, I completely agree that a lot of the trouble that has been emanating from the West has been caused by Muslim minorities. I went to university in Paris for 6 months and I myself was constantly harassed by North Africans (they thought I was French). And then I just started asking myself WHY? why do they do this and why do they have to be Muslims? oh by the way, the Lebanese minority in France are the most respected minorities in France. The only answers I could come up with until now is that they mostly come from lower middle-class backgrounds and are not interested in improving their lives by acquiring a decent education. They base their acts on ludicrous religious and political ideologies that are based on falsely shaped anti-western conceptions (political of course, they think the west is anti-arab and therefore anti-islamic).

Surely you will find other minorities who create havoc but their religious identity is never mentioned...such as latin americans in the US or Asians in Sydney.  It’s a shame really and although i’m not a religious person and not even 100% lebanese I try my best to clarify the stance of other decent Lebanese who have to deal with the ramifications of such incidents.  I hope this helps!

Posted by J Richards on December 11, 2005, 08:22 AM | #

Whoops!

What the hell do you know about Islamic behavior, Jihan?  Prophet Mohammed slaughtered a huge number of innocents (see this and this), had over a dozen wives and numerous concubines, and even had sex with a 9-year-old pre-pubescent girl (proof: here and here)!  He made it clear that Moslems are allowed to rape their female slaves, even if they are married.  What a role model for Moslems!

Posted by Jihan on December 11, 2005, 08:35 AM | #

Yeah what do I know about Islamic behaviour right? I only studied it all my life, lived amongst Islamic communities for most of my life, have carried out extensive research on all monotheistic religions, I’m currently doing my MA in Human Rights Law whilst focusing on political Islam and I’ve worked for the UN where I got a hands on experience on Human Rights and Islamic behaviour. As for those links you’ve googled - i’ve already seen them all and I can provide you with more if you wish. Religion is a huge topic that cannot be summed up in one tiny paragraph. From what I know, all religions have faults and no one is right.

Posted by Mark Richardson on December 11, 2005, 08:40 AM | #

Jihan, I agree with one of your observations. Second generation immigrants are often the most alienated for exactly the reason you mention - they are lost between two cultures.

But what this goes to show is that a communal identity is important for individuals. Western liberals are busy destroying such identities amongst both immigrants and the host population. They harm both groups - but at least the immigrants have a choice of returning to a homeland (perhaps you yourself are in this situation, having returned to live in Lebanon).

Posted by J Richards on December 11, 2005, 08:49 AM | #

Jihan,

If you are so knowledgeable, then let me see you refute the evidence that I have linked to.  In fact, this site openly challenges Moslems that if any Moslem refutes any of their criticisms of Islam, they will remove the criticism from their site, and if all their criticisms are refuted, they will remove their entire site.  Don’t waste your time debating us; register at their forums and debate them and post links to your rebuttals here.

Posted by Jihan on December 11, 2005, 08:51 AM | #

I totally agree with you Mark. I actually came back to Australia for the sole purpose of advancing my education. I love it here but of course I feel attached to my homeland and will be returning when I finish my degree. And I have always said that if the Lebanese youth does not feel it can integrate here then they ought to go back to Lebanon (although I am certain that they will face an identity crisis there too). It’s a complicated issue but it cannot be ignored or brushed away.

Posted by Jihan on December 11, 2005, 09:01 AM | #

Ok this is my last post. Never thought I’d get so many replies hehe

J, i’ve already seen that site - the author is I think persian. As you know Persian are Shiites. they’re infamous for their extreme religious ideologies. I don’t agree with any of their concepts so I don’t blame them for refuting the religion. Nor do I agree with Sunni extremists either. and i’m not trying to act as a knowledgeable person here, I was just giving my opinion. I’m not attacking you or attempting to challenge your arguments. it’s amazing how the topics always shift to Islam. Oh well, I tried !

Posted by yoy on December 11, 2005, 09:10 AM | #

It’s always been about Islam Jihan

If you can’t see that then your ‘education’ seems to have been wasted

Posted by Kieran on December 11, 2005, 09:16 AM | #

If the mob started to beat up the gangs then I would not have a problem. Instead they turned on police, paramedics and anyone who looked ‘middle eastern’. Regardless on your stand on the issue of race relations in Australia, anyone can see that the mob’s behaviour was ‘un-Australian’. There is no way for anyone to justify what happened in Cronulla today. Innocent people should never get hurt. Doesn’t matter if you’re white, Leb or other!

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 09:35 AM | #

Jihan,

Welcome to our site. I hope you keep coming back. We welcome diverse opinions and are not a unidimensional website that is intolerant of opinions it disagrees with. We are a Free Speech website and in my memory not a single comment has ever been deleted here, which is remarkable when you think about it.

In terms of Islam, Jihan, you will note that in most Western societies Muslim immigrants display some of the same tendencies we are now seeing in Australia. Read about Denmark, Holland and Sweden - which used to be (and Sweden still is), the most liberal societies on earth. And yet their Muslims are every bit as problematic as the ones in Australia. And need I say more about France. And, Britain has its problems too.

One excellent writer in this regard is Theodore Dalrymple. Here are two excellent articles by him:

The Suicide Bombers among us

When Islam breaks down

Both of those articles, I think, demonstrate fundamental problems with Islam as a religion.

I should also add that the position most of us take on Muslim immigration is the same as we would take on non-white Christian or Buddhist immigration. We wish to preserve the racial composition of European societies and do wish them altered (actually we do not wish the racial composition of any society to be altered or destroyed). And we therefore propose a moratorium on all immigration plus voluntary repatriation.

Guys,

Lets not get too combative here. Jihan was open minded enough to pay us a visit. And he has been civil in his debate. Let us return the favour.

Posted by Paul on December 11, 2005, 10:05 AM | #

These riots are a disgrace to all involved. These so called “Aussies” are an absolute embarrasment to our nation. We belong to Australia, it does not belong to us like some sort of god given right.

These same “Aussies” are the ones that are happy to yell racist comments to our aboriginal people..... even though we all came here and invaded their way of life and nearly destroyed their population.

Australia is a multicultural nation and we should be proud of all the advantages that that brings, not expressing ourselves through this form of thuggery and unintelligent racist dribble!

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 10:31 AM | #

Australia is a multicultural nation and we should be proud of all the advantages that that brings

Excellent words of wisdom offered by a Liberal to those who get beaten up regularly by Muslim gangs or to white girls who get gang-raped by Muslim men.

Posted by Mark Richardson on December 11, 2005, 11:31 AM | #

Paul, you have to decide what you believe in. At the moment, you are advocating two contradictory things.

If it is really true that a country cannot belong to a particular group of people, and that multiculturalism is a great advantage, and that it is racist to suggest otherwise, then the Aborigines should have welcomed the arrival of white settlers as a tremendous event in their history, as a multicultural enrichment of their own society, and any Aborigine who objected ought to have been shouted down by his fellow tribesman as an immoral racist.

But this is not what you say about the Aborigines. In fact, you talk about an “invasion” which put in peril their population and their way of life.

So you need some time to think about what you really believe in. If you really do believe in the importance of distinct cultures and peoples, then you should support both the preservation of the Aborigines and the Anglo-Australians.

If, though, you really believe in multiculturalism, then you ought to look down on those seeking to preserve the Aboriginal population and way of life as much as you do those defending the existence of an Anglo-Australian tradition.

Otherwise you can’t be taken seriously.

Posted by Kate on December 11, 2005, 11:32 AM | #

You have to admit this uprising has some uncanny similarities with the Eureka Stockade. A flag waving \"mob\" acting in its own interests uniformly condemned by the police and authorities.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 11:36 AM | #

Mark,

That is an excellent observation and it confirms suspicion that the Liberal’s opinions are driven more by humanitarian vanity than logic. And being consistently anti-White is more flattering to the vanity of the Liberal than being logically consistent.

Posted by Guessedworker on December 11, 2005, 11:43 AM | #

Giving up your land - even land you acquired by conquest - is dumb, Paul.  The New Masters won’t thank you for it.  And they won’t be liberals like you.  One happy, happy world of happy, happy, self-authoring individuals is not part of reality.  Do try to wash from your heart and mind the worthless liberal indoctrination you have absorbed (I am assuming here that you don’t actually want Western Man to be destroyed).

Posted by kate on December 11, 2005, 12:01 PM | #

No doubt underlying the anger at muslims is the savage acts of terrorism killing thousands and thousands of innocent westerners, making their hatred of us very clear.

That has bought our attention to the muslim religion and culture.  We are very aware of the differences and they are massive and underpined by a belief, that any none muslim, is dirty and unworthy.

Yet you live in our countries, you choose to live in “white” cultures.  You accept our generosity, our social services, housing and tolerance of the differences, but do nothing, to integrate, to become “friendly” neighbours, pleasant working colleagues who share social activities, learn about our culture and respect “our differences”.

There is contempt towards our young women, our daughters, who were born here, from immigrant parents, who learned to adjust and become part of Australian culture.

You, are protected by racist laws, yet use racism against us, in our own country.

How dare you, come into our country and hold a contemptuous view of the way we live our lives.  How dare you call our children whores.  How dare you attack life savers who have the guts to stand up for their female companion.

Don’t give me the excuse of “torn between 2 cultures” these boys, come from homes where they are taught to despise anyone who is not like them.

If you want to live here, become a citizen and hold a passport, become Australian & don’t expect us, to take on your culture.

Posted by John on December 11, 2005, 12:35 PM | #

Paul, I don’t know where you get your idea that Cronulla residents yell racist comments at aboriginal people. The Cronulla people are standing up to gang violence and sexist abuse by Lebanese muslim youths. That’s not racist, and has nothing to with attitudes towards other races or aborigines.

Of the Cronulla people I know, none feel anything but warmth and acceptance for aboriginal people.

You might be interested to know that Lebanese muslim youths in Australia are often extremely racist towards aboriginal people. They see them as black skips.

Posted by friedrich braun on December 11, 2005, 12:56 PM | #

Paul, you have to decide what you believe in. At the moment, you are advocating two contradictory things.

If it is really true that a country cannot belong to a particular group of people, and that multiculturalism is a great advantage, and that it is racist to suggest otherwise, then the Aborigines should have welcomed the arrival of white settlers as a tremendous event in their history, as a multicultural enrichment of their own society, and any Aborigine who objected ought to have been shouted down by his fellow tribesman as an immoral racist.

This is one of the sharpest things I’ve read in a long time.

Of course, if I wanted to play the Devil’s advocate I could gently point out that the arrival of Whites was followed by the dispossession of Aborigines; hence, why should they feel enriched? However, the same dispossession and racial replacement is now occurring in the West...but the victims are White this time around. Additonally, the fate of the Aborigines (perhaps the world’s most primitive tribe...certainly the ugliest) doesn’t keep me awake at night. You see, I care about my people and what happens to them...particularly since they’re locked in a death struggle for survival.

Posted by Mike on December 11, 2005, 01:03 PM | #

Again!! The minority extremists vent their anger while the majority of innocents suffer.

Last week, innocent beachgoers and lifesavers of local origin were the victims of extremist “australians” that think they are lebanese. The gangs of so-called “lebanese” are far from it.

They are thugs with an identity crisis that seem to have gotten their identity from American ghetto culture. Dumb village idiots who identify with two countries (the US and lebanon) both of which they’ve probably never been to.

This week, innocent beachgoers and those of ethic origin were the victims of extremeist “rednecks” that think they are australian. The gangs of so-called “australians” are far from it and certainly do not represent the majority. I saw the pickup trucks with aussie flags full of yahooing yobos drive down the Kingsway today and I had to do a double-take as I thought that I was in Alabama or something.

Each side is quick to add that this is a racial issue. Why, because it supports their hatred. If this continues to be a racial issue, then the majority of peaceful australians will continue to suffer as racial issues tend to favour the minority.

This is a criminal issue and the rights of the majority (of whatever background) are violated due to the upholding of minority rights. Punish harsher. More police, even a bit of heavy-handed policing like the old days.

And poor Mr. Iemma, who sits on the fence and says nothing of value at the best of times. What to do? Mr Iemma.

Does one show the racist redneck minority of Sutherland his tough stance on ethnic gang violence?

Or does one show the anti-anglo saxon violent minority of Bankstown and Lakemba (not far from his electorate) his tough stance on racism?

Posted by Sam on December 11, 2005, 01:09 PM | #

Why are so many of you equating people of Lebanese/Middle Eastern ethnicity as being representative of what it means to be a muslim???

Its like saying all members of the IRA are truely representative of what it means to be a Christian…

The reality is that you will find dickheads where ever you go in the world… White/black/brown/yellow.. And of all different religions… Take your pick, there are plenty of idiots out there…

I would hardly claim the IRA as representing the majority viewpoint of all Christians, so rather than assuming that these Lebanese trouble makers are muslims maybe they should just be viewed as idiots trying to impress themselves…

Anyway maybe if the swell comes up everone can get back to doing something worth while…

Sam

Posted by friedrich braun on December 11, 2005, 01:25 PM | #

Why are so many of you equating people of Lebanese/Middle Eastern ethnicity as being representative of what it means to be a muslim???

One problem: there’s an obvious pattern at work. These aren’t some isolated, extraordinary events. Arab Muslims demonstrate the same type of behaviour in all White/Western societies wich they happen to infest; therefore, one is lead to belief that harassing White females, assaulting White males, disrespecting the culture of the host population, etc. is indeed “representative of what it means to be a muslim"… at least in the West.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 01:55 PM | #

Modern day Australia is not an exclusively White Anglo-Saxon, Christian, English speaking nation, It is multicultural and multi denominational.
30% of Australians admit to being Atheist or Agnostic, this figure would be a lot higher (well over 50%) if people filled in the census by their conscience and not by habit or family pressures. Up until the 1920’s, it was illegal to educate Catholics in England, and therefore this country as well.
Many of our first arrivals, the convicts, were sent here for being non-christian, usually Pagan or Wiccan, the Celtic religions, however many were also sent here for being Atheist or Agnostic.
An Australian is anyone who identifies with the term.
Atheist through to Zionist.
Whether here by default (ie: born here), circumstance or choice.
The colour of your skin, eyes, hair is irrelevant. As is a persons religion, wealth/class, political affiliation, sexuality, gender, language, cultural background or anything else.
“Our flag” didn’t actually become the official Australian flag until 1967, before that we went under the Union Jack, a flag I have absolutely no allegiance to.
“Politically correct” basically means being polite. Accepting people as they are. It means a “FAIR GO”. The right wing try to belittle it, they have total disdain for the principles of social justice and equality, in other words they are opposed to a fair go. In their eyes fair go means if you’re not fair, you have to go.
If you don’t like our “Way of Life” (SOCIAL JUSTICE & EQUALITY), I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, “THE RIGHT TO LEAVE”.... just because you were born here, doesn’t mean you have to stay.
I personally am an Atheist from an Irish and German background, I have relatives who are Koori, Arabic and Asian. We are just as Australian as anybody else, maybe even more so. My hair is blonder and my eyes bluer than any of you will ever dream about.
Cronulla is a youth issue, not a racial one.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 02:06 PM | #

And people wonder why the west is disappearing down the toilet.............(chuckle)

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 02:16 PM | #

Where is the evidence that “the west is disappearing down the toilet”? All we see on the news is that it keeps invading and bombing other countries for absolutely no valid reason.
We live in a secular society...not a christian one… freedom of and freedom from ALL forms of religion should be at the forefront of our concerns.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 02:20 PM | #

Where is the evidence that “the west is disappearing down the toilet”?

I don’t argue with religious fanatics.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 02:21 PM | #

Does any of this sound familiar?
Hitler’s Germany is really not that different to Howard’s Australia.
70 years on. Are we about to repeat history?
“Those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past are bound to repeat them”

14 characteristics common to fascist regimes.
Comparisons of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto, and Pinochet yielded this list of 14 “identifying characteristics of fascism.”

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc
4. Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
6. Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 02:25 PM | #

I’m neither religious nor a fanatic.... Atheism is not a religion...just like baldness is not a hair color.
I support a secular society… the total separation of church and state… freedom of and freedom from ALL forms of religion

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 02:28 PM | #

I’m Speechless. ROTFL

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 02:35 PM | #

I’m neither religious nor a fanatic

You are both. Your left-liberalism is your religion. You are waging your own Jihad. And in your mind the tenets of your faith are above all scrutiny and/or doubt and no other opinions or points of view have any credibility.

And you are fanatical. As your screeds here demonstrate.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 02:48 PM | #

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
CRONULLA
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
SEDITION LAWS
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
MUSLIMS
4. Supremacy of the Military
IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, EAST TIMOR… New Zealand will probably be next.
5. Rampant Sexism
BABY BONUS, ABORTION, GAY MARRAIGE BAN
6. Controlled Mass Media
MURDOCH/PACKER...CUTS & CONTROLS OF “OUR” ABC
7. Obsession with National Security
SEE CRONULLA plus THE LAST 3 ELECTION CAMPAIGNS
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
FAMILY FIRST, CHRISTIAN DEMOCRATS, LIBERAL & LABOR @ HILLSONG
9. Corporate Power is Protected
WORK CHOICES
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
WORK CHOICES
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
VSU, ABC FUNDING CUTS,
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
ALL RECENT ELECTION CAMPAIGNS OR JUST READ DAILY TELEGRAPH
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
ROBERT GERARD
14. Fraudulent Elections
SMEAR CAMPAIGNS AGAINST BROGDEN in NSW, LATHAM, CREAN & BEASLEY on Federal Level...even against COSTELLO from ALP. Both major parties are complicit.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 02:56 PM | #

Simon,

Why haven’t they packed off brave dissidents like you to the camps yet? 

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 02:57 PM | #

Further to the smear campaigns.. both the Libs/Nats & ALP have used them against Bob Brown and Pauline Hansen… the 2 major parties are exactly the same, they should just form a grand coalition and be done with it.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 03:01 PM | #

These leftists are so screwed up in their heads that they contradict themselves every minute they open their mouths.

Our friend Simon just wondered where is the evidence that the West is disappearing down the toilet and then proceeded to rattle off a political screed suggesting that Australia has already been taken over by Fascists.

You need some Prozac mate.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 03:02 PM | #

Give it time, the sedition and work choice laws have only just been passed.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 03:09 PM | #

Actually, a tyranny is emerging in some Western nations. It is however a type of tyranny that you and your chums would approve of.

See here.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 03:10 PM | #

I also back up my claims with a few facts, a damn side more than the right has ever done.
Why do you have a problem with a secular society?
Why are you so fearful of Islam taking over this country?
Muslims only represent 1.5% of the population… Atheists are 27% & Buddhists 2% represent a bigger proportion of the population.
Surely Athiests represent a much bigger threat to your chosen Christian lifestyle than Islam?

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 03:15 PM | #

You direct me to a site in which the British National Party whinges about Canada and expect I should take it as fact…
I think I’ll file that one under 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 11, 2005, 03:47 PM | #

Are you a homosexual, Simon?
______
-- “All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.”—Enoch Powell
-- Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!
-- Balkanization is better than Brazilianization!
-- The 1965 Immigration-Holocaust Act:  the gift that keeps on giving!
-- What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the usual suspects!

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 03:55 PM | #

Simon,

I’ll take that as a yes for the Gulag and for thought control.

Like all leftists you are basically a totalitarian (and also rabidly insane - but we shall come to that later) but one who wants your brand of totalitarianism to win.

Therefore, you see nothing wrong in imprisoning a man for writing an article about crime and immigration. Freedom depends on the freedom of expression - first and foremost. Once that is gone, the rest is a formality. “I disaprove of what
you say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it”, as Voltaire once wrote. That is the bedrock of freedom.

I do not of course expect any such fair play from left-wing totalitarians like yourself and others of your ilk.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 04:08 PM | #

I have no idea what a person’s sexuality has to do with the debate about racism.
The answer is no, but if you want to think I am, I’ll take it as a compliment.
Your links show us that you are a right wing christian biggoted fascist.
Now where would we file your comments and links?
I’m thinking all of the following.
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
5. Rampant Sexism
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Are you a closet gay boy?

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 04:12 PM | #

Fifth rate arguments followed by abuse. A standard trademark of the modern left.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 04:13 PM | #

Freedom of and from religion is what believe in.... if any govt or individual wanted to stop you from practising christianity or any other religion...atheists would be the 1st to protest against such a move.... do you think christians or others would rally to support our right to not believe?
BTW: you never answered my questions, here they are again.
Why do you have a problem with a secular society?
Why are you so fearful of Islam taking over this country?
Muslims only represent 1.5% of the population… Atheists are 27% & Buddhists 2% represent a bigger proportion of the population.
Surely Athiests represent a much bigger threat to your chosen Christian lifestyle than Islam?

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 04:32 PM | #

My post which said

I have no idea what a person’s sexuality has to do with the debate about racism.
The answer is no, but if you want to think I am, I’ll take it as a compliment.
Your links show us that you are a right wing christian biggoted fascist.
Now where would we file your comments and links?
I’m thinking all of the following.
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
5. Rampant Sexism
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Are you a closet gay boy?

was totally intended for

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sunday, December 11, 2005 at 03:47 PM

note he hasn’t responded as yet
Also Phil wont answer my quetions either.
Maybe they’re a bit too hard for him.

Posted by Guessedworker on December 11, 2005, 05:25 PM | #

Simon,

Believe it or not- and no doubt you won’t - your questions are too shallow and immature to merit consideration.

Your painful shallowness and immaturity was the reason Fred queried - if you will excuse the pun - whether you like girls.  Shallowness and immaturity are highly characteristic of liberals, and explain why they have such difficulty in dealing with such concepts as, for example, Darwinism and sociobiology, human-biodiversity (the rich birthright of human characteristics which define us racially, nation-ally, sexually), and ethnic genetic interests and the loyalties and obligations they entail.

Guys like us don’t despise you or hate you for your gauche incapacity.  You entertain us.  But for the most part we know it is useless to rejoin with our worldview.  You cannot process it. 

There is some evidence that genetics has a role in that.  But mostly I think it’s a product of unfavourable circumstances in the home during childhood.

Posted by Desmond Jones on December 11, 2005, 06:06 PM | #

Atheism portends moral relativism, which is dangerous because the goal posts for morality are constantly moving. Atheistic societies, have slaughtered millions.

Equality=tyranny. It severely limits freedom of speech and freedom of association, especially in a multi-cultural setting.

Identifying scapegoats is only necessary in a heterogeneous society. Abe Foxman et al identify Christian fundies as Nazis because it aids and abets their secular doctrine. Anti-semitism is a unifying cause.

Islamic dominance in a society would preclude atheists. Jews and Christians might be able to live in dhimmitude but atheists will have to convert or be killed. Which Islamic country embraces 27% atheists in their population? Islamic dominance will preclude the freedoms you desire. Charles Murray, for instance, concludes that Christian humanism propelled the last five centuries of Western progress. The fundamental principle of separation of church and State, Rousseau’s doctrine, arose from Aquinas’ assertion that human intelligence is a gift from God and should be celebrated.

Gay marriage will only serve to denigrate the centuries old monogamous man/women marriage tradition the West is built upon. It serves only to heap further disdain upon one of the fundamental institutions of the West. It proclaims the folly that reason is superior to tradition in forming a moral state.

Posted by Gaz on December 11, 2005, 08:12 PM | #

Freidrich Braun comments that, ‘catholics were denied education in england until the 1920’s’ is utter bollocks. I don’t think any squarehead neo-nazi has anything sensible to bring to the debate, what did the nazis ever achieve? oh yes that’s it they murdered and pillaged europe and lost the war leading to 50 years of nuclear stand-off. Some achievement. German twat.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 08:19 PM | #

Gaz,

While I am no fan of Friedrich and have had many disagreements with him, this wasn’t his comment. That comment was by our esteemed comrade “Simon” who has let off quite a vile (and utterly irrational) screed so far as you can see. And, from his comments, I gather he is an Australian.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 11, 2005, 08:29 PM | #

“My post which said [etc.] was totally intended for [...] Fred Scrooby [...N]ote he hasn’t responded as yet” (—Simon)

“I have no idea what a person’s sexuality has to do with the debate about racism.” (—Simon)

I asked if you were a homosexual because your brand of extreme left-wing degenerateness/nihilism and the intensity with which you espouse it are seen more often, relatively speaking, in certain groups, homosexuals both male and female being two such.

“If you want to think I am [homosexual] I’ll take it as a compliment.”

I won’t ask why.

“Your links show us that you are a right wing christian biggoted fascist.”

Though I use the right-wing/left-wing terminology of course, that terminology breaks down in many ways, and I feel it makes more sense to view myself not as right-wing but as normal and you as degenerate.  A normal person wants normalness to have ascendancy over degenerateness in society and a degenerate person wants degenerateness to have ascendancy over normalness in society.
______
-- “All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.”—Enoch Powell
-- Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!
-- Balkanization is better than Brazilianization!
-- The 1965 Immigration-Holocaust Act:  the gift that keeps on giving!
-- What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the usual suspects!

Posted by Mark Richardson on December 11, 2005, 08:44 PM | #

Gaz, you’re right that such a claim is ludicrous, but I thought that it was Simon who made the claim rather than Friedrich.

I had to laugh when I read the claim that Catholics weren’t allowed to be educated until the 1920s. My own illustrious Catholic school dates back to 1883. I think maybe Simon means that Catholics couldn’t get a degree at Oxford or Cambridge until the 1820s.

Note too how Simon on the one hand is fearful that Australia is on the verge of fascism, but he then makes an incredibly authoritarian claim for his own liberal politics. He defines the Australian way of life itself as being the liberal way of social justice and equality, and says that anyone who disagrees with his politcs should leave the country.

Not much room for political dissent in your world view is there Simon? Let’s see, you give us a choice of: liberalism or ........ liberalism. With old-fashioned exile as a punishment for heretics.

Posted by EC on December 11, 2005, 09:01 PM | #

The question begging to be asked to Simple Simon is why the need to get his blood pressure up fighting the fascists in Australia?  Why not jettison that tyrannical state for freer nations and regions that would cater to his whims and appreciate his free flowing ideas?  Places like the Middle East, Africa, India or China.  Simple Simon would no longer have to concern himself with such heavy issues ever again.  His only concern in his new home would be to make sure he didn’t get his throat slit and his entrails fed to him.  Other than that, he’d be happy.

Posted by Marc on December 11, 2005, 09:33 PM | #

Your painful shallowness and immaturity was the reason Fred queried - if you will excuse the pun - whether you like girls.

Cute pun.

Simon could have handled himself better, but someone’s sexuality really is irrelevant to a discussion on racism.  Putting aside the possible correlation between homosexuality and some forms of arrested mental development, our shallow, materialistic societies produce plenty of childish heterosexual adults.  So it’s hard to see why childish antagonism, perceived or real, should be a red flag for homosexuality. 

I think Fred was just name-calling, personally.  Simon, unfortunately, was too eager to stoop to his level and call Fred a right wing bigoted Christian Fascist.  (It’s been a while since I’ve posted here, but isn’t Fred Jewish?)

I wish we could have a serious debate on these issues without name calling on both sides.

Posted by Cassie on December 11, 2005, 09:44 PM | #

I’m not sure what sort of website I have stumbled upon here. Nevertheless I was quite appalled to read some of the postings here. First of all, the problems facing Sydney as a whole are racial tensions. Priveleged white males of my generation have been fed hateful slogans and information both by the media and by their parents. Racism runs deep in the Australian psyche. You need only go to the nearest small town to find the Australian version of a hick: uneducated, racist and ignorant.

As I have lived in Sydney, going to school there in one of the Eastern Suburbs, I understand the issues that the city faces. It is not one of immigration (as some of you postulated). It is instead an issue of integration. In Canada, there is a very large Middle Eastern population in Montreal. This is a city of similar size, ethnic make-up and cultural importance as Sydney. To date there have been no race related riots in the streets. There was, following Sept. 11 the bombing with molotov cocktails of a Jewish library. This was found to be the work of one individual and his mother, not an angry mob. The caucasian population in Montreal embraces Middle Eastern immigrants, and while it is not perfect, it can serve as an example for many other cities around the world.

Immigration is important to Canada and Australia to expand our cultural diversity and to enrich our society. The youths in Cornulla should have reported the behaviour of the harrassment by Lebanese males to a higher authority. Violence is not Australia standing tall. It is not Australians showing pride or proving a point. It is wrong and will incite more hatred. Shame on the Bra Boys and shame on the media for escalating a simple cultural dilemma into a global story. The world’s eyes are on Cornulla (and the rest of the city), and time will tell whether Australians deal with this in an acceptable and reasonable way or further embarass themselves on the world stage.

Out of Iraq and through these riots Australia is looking less and less like a multi-cultural haven and more like an American puppet and hotbed for racism. Please spread positive words, and to those Australian-Muslims who may be reading this post-- my heart goes out to your community. Further rioting and violence among your own youths, however, will only serve to undermine your plight. Peace....

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 09:46 PM | #

Marc,

If you read Simon’s comments carefully, you will realise that serious debate with people like him is impossible. His comments are stupidity and immaturity writ large and have little more than a bit of entertainment value. They are utterly devoid of logical content.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 10:38 PM | #

Cassie,

Thank you for those kind words. We really are in need of those words of wisdom from time to time - they are utterly missing from the mass media and without right-minded people like yourself, God knows what this world would come to. I feel like a sinner now and feel that you have really showed me the way. Thanks.

By the way, do you also have some words of wisdom for these poor girls? They may disagree with you about the “enrichment” bit. (I had never realised that “enrichment” was so seriously lacking in so many things other than Uranium. Thanks for pointing it out to us)

These girls may even get the odd “bigoted” thought, heaven forbid - and may God save them if they do for they will have committed the worst most unpardonable sin any (caucasian) human being could ever commit. Do you have any words of wisdom for them? Thanks again. It was a pleasure reading your comments.

cheers,

Phil

Posted by Marc on December 11, 2005, 10:45 PM | #

Immigration is important to Canada and Australia to expand our cultural diversity and to enrich our society

Cassie, you’re obviously an intelligent woman.  At least, you write intelligently enough.  Do you really believe this statement?  Do you really believe that all cultures are equal? 

What about cultures that practice genital mutilation, stone adulterers, and hang homosexuals?  Surely if you are a liberal, you believe that women have the right to not have their genitals mutilated, and that people should not be executed for their private sex lives.  Would you let these cultures into your backyard?

And if you are going to exclude these cultures, well, does that make you a “racist”?  Or does it make you someone who wants to preserve her own freedom and way of life? 

I think when you can honestly answer those last questions you’ll start to realize why so many people have such a problem with government-enforced diversity.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 10:50 PM | #

Oh and Cassie, I forgot:  these girls too. They may need some sensitivity training.

Thanks for popping by!

Posted by Freddy on December 11, 2005, 11:22 PM | #

Convicts sent to Australia for being “Wiccans”?! LOL!

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 11:27 PM | #

Marc,

From one of the articles I linked to above:

This pattern of betrothal causes suffering as intense as any I know of. It has terrible consequences. One father prevented his daughter, highly intelligent and ambitious to be a journalist, from attending school, precisely to ensure her lack of Westernization and economic independence. He then took her, aged 16, to Pakistan for the traditional forced marriage (silence, or a lack of open objection, amounts to consent in these circumstances, according to Islamic law) to a first cousin whom she disliked from the first and who forced his attentions on her. Granted a visa to come to Britain, as if the marriage were a bona fide one—the British authorities having turned a cowardly blind eye to the real nature of such marriages in order to avoid the charge of racial discrimination—he was violent toward her.

She had two children in quick succession, both of whom were so severely handicapped that they would be bedridden for the rest of their short lives and would require nursing 24 hours a day. (For fear of giving offense, the press almost never alludes to the extremely high rate of genetic illnesses among the offspring of consanguineous marriages.) Her husband, deciding that the blame for the illnesses was entirely hers, and not wishing to devote himself to looking after such useless creatures, left her, divorcing her after Islamic custom. Her family ostracized her, having concluded that a woman whose husband had left her must have been to blame and was the next thing to a whore. She threw herself off a cliff, but was saved by a ledge.

I’ve heard a hundred variations of her emblematic story. Here, for once, are instances of unadulterated female victimhood, yet the silence of the feminists is deafening. Where two pieties—feminism and multiculturalism—come into conflict, the only way of preserving both is an indecent silence.

I wouldn’t hold my breath with these Liberal feminists.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 11:28 PM | #

Freddy,

You will notice a pattern when arguing with leftists and liberals. The truth becomes a matter of convenience and is always dispensable in the face hard ideology.

Posted by Simon on December 12, 2005, 12:10 AM | #

So much to respond to.... how many of you are actually from Sydney or even Australia… I only ask because I keep getting referred to English or American websites and noticed that many of you do not have .au in your email addresses, also most of what has been written occurred when most Australians would be asleep.... not that it matters, I accept people from overseas, I embrace their different cultures and backgounds. Whether you’re not Australian or not, I say G’day and welcome to our wonderful multi-cultural, multi-demoninational and diverse society. I hope you can learn about the principles of social justice and equality.
Cheers
Simon

PHIL
Your painful shallowness and immaturity was the reason Fred queried - if you will excuse the pun - whether you like girls.

Like most right wingers, when Phil can’t answer the questions, he uses the old cliché. If you can’t dazzle em with brilliance or baffle em with bull****, just call them names.

DESMOND JONES
Atheism portends moral relativism, which is dangerous because the goal posts for morality are constantly moving.

Moving the goal posts is a good thing, as we learn more through science and communication, and develop as a society, we must adjust our attitudes towards those we share the planet with.

Atheistic societies, have slaughtered millions.

Nobody is asking for an Atheistic society, just a secular one. BTW Christian Germany under Christian Hitler still hold the record for slaughering people.

Equality=tyranny. It severely limits freedom of speech and freedom of association, especially in a multi-cultural setting.

I have no idea how you reach that conclusion other than thinking you want the right to hate people.…. The truth is that IN-EQUALITY=TYRANNY.
In-equality severely limits freedom of speech and freedom of association.
A multi-cultural setting offers far more freedoms and choices for people.

Identifying scapegoats is only necessary in a heterogeneous society.

Totally concur. Why then is their a need for a heterogeneous society?
I personally am an Atheist from an Irish and German background. Born and bred in Panania. I have relatives (through marriage and their offspring) who are Koori, Arabic and Asian (they are also born and bred in Sydney… Earlwood, Mascot, Dee Why, Northmead, Ramsgate, Marrickville, Picnic Point, Kirrawee & Camden) We are just as Australian as anybody else, maybe even more so. My hair is blonder and my eyes bluer than any of you will ever dream about.

Islamic dominance in a society would preclude atheists.

Nobody is asking for an Islamic society, just a secular one.
Why are you so fearful of Islam taking over this country?
Muslims only represent 1.5% of the population… Atheists are 27% & Buddhists 2% represent a bigger proportion of the population.
I support a secular society… the total separation of church and state… freedom of and freedom from ALL forms of religion

Gay marriage will only serve to denigrate the centuries old monogamous man/women marriage tradition the West is built upon.

How does allowing more people to access the ritual of Marriage “denigrate the centuries old monogamous man/women marriage tradition the West is built upon”? Perhaps we should just make marriage a purely religious festival and remove all the state based recognition and state based entitlements it brings.

FRED SCROOBY
I asked if you were a homosexual because your brand of extreme left-wing degenerateness/nihilism

So why then, are so many gay men and lesbians involved with the Liberal, National, One Nation and other right wing parties?
I don’t remember the guys name, but the assassinated leader of the extreme right wing party in Holland was a gay man. Gays and Lesbians can be found in every walk of life and all sides of politics, left, right and centre.

I won’t ask why.

I’ll tell you anyway. You think of gay as a bad thing, I think of gay as a human being who finds members of the same sex attractive. If a gay guy wants to shag me, and I have no doubt a few have wanted to over the years, then I consider it a compliment. The same way a woman, who I don’t find attractive would be or I am with women who don’t find me attractive. Unfortunately for any gay guy who wants me, they will be disappointed, but I wont think less of them because of it. If you think being gay is bad, then that makes it good, as such it becomes a compliment.

I feel it makes more sense to view myself not as right-wing but as normal and you as degenerate.

Another poster says that you are Jewish. If this is true then you should be only too aware of what the right wing bigots can and will do. To the right wing Christians, Jewish is not normal. Hitler told the Vatican (and the world) he knew he was doing gods work by eliminating the Jews. I also wonder why you would direct people to anti-semetic sites?

MARK RICHARDSON
Not much room for political dissent in your world view is there Simon?

Plenty of room for it, it is encouraged, in fact it should be required that all viewpoints be confronted and challenged on a regular basis in order for society to reaffirm our views or enable us to meet a compromise or change them.

EC
Why the need to get his blood pressure up fighting the fascists in Australia?

The battle starts at home. I’m glad you agree there are fascists in Australia,

Why not jettison that tyrannical state for freer nations and regions that would cater to his whims and appreciate his free flowing ideas? Places like the Middle East, Africa, India or China.

Many organisations and individuals do take up this challenge. That doesn’t mean we drop the ball here.
If you don’t like social justice and equality, you can always find somewhere else to live… just because you were born here, doesn’t mean you have to stay.

MARC
I wish we could have a serious debate on these issues without name calling on both sides.

I totally agree, and I realise I should not have called fred “a right wing christian biggoted fascist.”

PHIL
If you read Simon’s comments carefully, you will realise that serious debate with people like him is impossible. His comments are stupidity and immaturity writ large and have little more than a bit of entertainment value. They are utterly devoid of logical content.

What entertains me is your inability and.or refusal to answer perfectly legitimate questions.

Posted by ben tillman on December 12, 2005, 12:15 AM | #

Simon could have handled himself better, but someone’s sexuality really is irrelevant to a discussion on racism.

It is irrelevant in the sense that argumentum ad hominem is always a logical fallacy.  Simon’s assertions cannot be wrong because he is gay (if he is gay).  They must be judged on their own merits.  The point of Fred’s question was not to suss out an illogical basis for rejecting Simon’s assertions (which stand or fall on their own merits) but rather to gather data on the quarters from which utterly irrational liberal tripe is most likely to emanate.  A disporoportionate amount of especially virulent hatred seems to emanate from the gay population, partly because, at least in the U.S., the gay population is scapegoated by cynical “conservative” leaders.

Posted by Simon on December 12, 2005, 12:15 AM | #

Please dont call progressive Australians Liberal.
Have some understanding of Australian politics.
The Australian Liberal Party is extremely right wing and conservative.
If you must use the word Liberal....use a small/lower case “l”.
Or better still use progressive.

Posted by Simon on December 12, 2005, 12:18 AM | #

I think I answered the question Ben.

So why then, are so many gay men and lesbians involved with the Liberal, National, One Nation and other right wing parties?
I don’t remember the guys name, but the assassinated leader of the extreme right wing party in Holland was a gay man. Gays and Lesbians can be found in every walk of life and all sides of politics, left, right and centre.
I’ll tell you anyway. You think of gay as a bad thing, I think of gay as a human being who finds members of the same sex attractive. If a gay guy wants to shag me, and I have no doubt a few have wanted to over the years, then I consider it a compliment. The same way a woman, who I don’t find attractive would be or I am with women who don’t find me attractive. Unfortunately for any gay guy who wants me, they will be disappointed, but I wont think less of them because of it. If you think being gay is bad, then that makes it good, as such it becomes a compliment.

Posted by ben tillman on December 12, 2005, 12:19 AM | #

Giving up your land - even land you acquired by conquest - is dumb, Paul.  The New Masters won’t thank you for it.  And they won’t be liberals like you.

Excellent, GW.

Posted by Simon on December 12, 2005, 12:37 AM | #

Currently it is Middle Eastern Muslims, 25 years ago it was Asians, 50 years ago it was Greeks & Italians, 100 years ago it was the Irish.... maybe we should have learnt from the mistake 200 years ago when the English came here with guns and refused to adopt the national language, culture and religions/spititual beliefs.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 12, 2005, 12:44 AM | #

“someone’s sexuality really is irrelevant to a discussion on racism. [...] I think Fred was just name-calling, personally.  Simon, unfortunately, was too eager to stoop to his level and call Fred a right wing bigoted Christian Fascist.  (It’s been a while since I’ve posted here, but isn’t Fred Jewish?) I wish we could have a serious debate on these issues without name calling on both sides.” (—Marc)

Someone’s sexuality is not “irrelevant to a discussion on racism” or to most other discussions in which one or both parties are motivated by leftism.  This is because homosexuals, both male and female, who are leftist are disproportionately fanatical in their leftism and, more so the male homosexuals, in their support for the forces of degenerateness in society.  I paste the following from my reply to Simon, and I stand by it:

“I asked if you were a homosexual because your brand of extreme left-wing degenerateness/nihilism and the intensity with which you espouse it are seen more often, relatively speaking, in certain groups, homosexuals both male and female being two such.”

Touching on the topic of homosexuality there was also this exchange between Simon and me:  he said, “If you want to think I am [homosexual] I’ll take it as a compliment,” to which I replied, “I won’t ask why,” meaning, in part, I didn’t see why it ought to be taken as a compliment.  I stand by that also.  (Needless to add, it’s not true that I “wanted” to think he was homosexual.)

As for his calling me a right-wing bigoted Christian fascist, I don’t view that necessarily as mere “name-calling,” Marc.  Maybe he thought he had good reason?  Once again, the way I look at it is I’m normal and Simon is degenerate, in the sense that I prefer ordinary normalness to predominate over degenerateness in the society around me, while Simon prefers ordinary degenerateness to predominate over normalness in the society around him.  (That terminology I use doesn’t mean I’m personally normal in every way and he’s personally degenerate in every way, just that I prefer normalness to be ascendant over degenerateness in society and he prefers degenerateness to be ascendant over normalness in society.)

I’m Catholic with some Jewish ancestry at the grandparent level (not the parent level).

“I wish we could have a serious debate on these issues without name calling on both sides.” (—Marc)

Don’t be holier-than-thou, Marc—it’s extremely boring.

Incidentally, I remember you perfectly, Marc, from when you used to post here.  I remember you as a highly intelligent pro-life, anti-excessive-incompatible-immigration homosexual whose ideas I respected.

“The caucasian population in Montreal embraces Middle Eastern immigrants, and while it is not perfect, it can serve as an example for many other cities around the world.” (—Cassie)

Cassie, many whites, myself for example, have no objection whatsoever to reasonable volumes of non-Euro immigration.  What we object to are immigration policies that in effect put whitedom on the conveyor belt inexorably leading to ultimate race-replacement.  Such policies have to be opposed now, while their effects are still reversible, rather than later after their effects will have become extremely difficult to reverse.  I happen to like all the world’s peoples and cultures.  I like my own best and don’t wish it to be replaced by an alien one if you don’t mind.

“Immigration is important to Canada and Australia to expand our cultural diversity and to enrich our society.” (—the oh-so-enlightened,-superior,-and-prejudice-free Cassie who wishes everyone to know how unlike all us rednecks she is and how prejudice-free and therefore superior)

That’s race-replacement propaganda:  double-talking nonsense.  Enrich our society all you want, Cassie, but please don’t race-replace us.

“The world’s eyes are on Cornulla” (—the oh-so-enlightened-and-superior Cassie)

In fact, the world’s eyes—China’s and Japan’s, for example—are on the entire West right now, looking with keenest interest to see if we can throw off the present race-replacement policies people like Cassie have been propagandized into thinking they love so much, and save our respective (sub)races.  China, for one, knows if we fail to do that, she’ll be the world’s sole superpower for a long time to come, perhaps forever.
______
Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!

Posted by Simon on December 12, 2005, 12:53 AM | #

Fred, I’ll state it again shall I?
Perhaps you can respond to this

I asked if you were a homosexual because your brand of extreme left-wing degenerateness/nihilism
So why then, are so many gay men and lesbians involved with the Liberal, National, One Nation and other right wing parties?
I don’t remember the guys name, but the assassinated leader of the extreme right wing party in Holland was a gay man. Gays and Lesbians can be found in every walk of life and all sides of politics, left, right and centre.

I won’t ask why.

I’ll tell you anyway. You think of gay as a bad thing, I think of gay as a human being who finds members of the same sex attractive. If a gay guy wants to shag me, and I have no doubt a few have wanted to over the years, then I consider it a compliment. The same way a woman, who I don’t find attractive would be or I am with women who don’t find me attractive. Unfortunately for any gay guy who wants me, they will be disappointed, but I wont think less of them because of it. If you think being gay is bad, then that makes it good, as such it becomes a compliment.

I feel it makes more sense to view myself not as right-wing but as normal and you as degenerate.

Another poster says that you are Jewish. If this is true then you should be only too aware of what the right wing bigots can and will do. To the right wing Christians, Jewish is not normal. Hitler told the Vatican (and the world) he knew he was doing gods work by eliminating the Jews. I also wonder why you would direct people to anti-semetic sites?

Posted by ben tillman on December 12, 2005, 01:23 AM | #

The youths in Cornulla should have reported the behaviour of the harrassment by Lebanese males to a higher authority.

A higher authority, Cassie?  Doo you mean the state?  The only legitimate function of a government is to enforce the community’s moral laws.  Quite obviously, members of the community may withdraw their delegation of such a function and perform the function themselves.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 12, 2005, 01:29 AM | #

Simon wants my comments on the following.  I’ll respond but only once, since his IQ doesn’t meet the standard for this site.

He asks if the fact that there are right-wing homosexuals disproves my claim that left-wing homosexuals tend proportionately to be more fanatical than heterosexuals in their leftism and in their promotion of degenerateness for society?

The answer is no.

“You think of gay as a bad thing” (—Simon)

Homosexuality is a sexual perversion. 

“you should be only too aware of what the right wing bigots can and will do. To the right wing Christians, Jewish is not normal. Hitler told the Vatican (and the world) he knew he was doing gods work by eliminating the Jews.” (—Simon)

I’m not sure what I’m supposed to respond to here.  It’s gobbledygook.

“I also wonder why you would direct people to anti-semetic sites?”

More gobbledygook.

This is my last time responding to this nitwit.  Serious discussion is possible with serious people (having IQs above a certain threshold, obviously).  When you bandy words with a complete fool you yourself are being a complete fool.
______
Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!

Posted by ben tillman on December 12, 2005, 01:30 AM | #

If it is really true that a country cannot belong to a particular group of people, and that multiculturalism is a great advantage, and that it is racist to suggest otherwise, then the Aborigines should have welcomed the arrival of white settlers as a tremendous event in their history, as a multicultural enrichment of their own society, and any Aborigine who objected ought to have been shouted down by his fellow tribesman as an immoral racist.

And:

But what this goes to show is that a communal identity is important for individuals. Western liberals are busy destroying such identities amongst both immigrants and the host population. They harm both groups - but at least the immigrants have a choice of returning to a homeland (perhaps you yourself

are in this situation, having returned to live in Lebanon).

Very incisive, Mark.

Posted by Svigor on December 12, 2005, 01:31 AM | #

I haven’t read the whole lot of replies yet, but one thing that stands out is the idea that a subset of a population “doesn’t represent” the entire population.

How convenient, to be able to disown a minority within one’s own group whenever it suits one’s purposes.

The trouble is that the subset would not be present if the group it belongs to wasn’t present.  The trouble is that problematic subsets DO NOT OCCUR IN THE SAME PROPORTIONS IN ALL GROUPS.

Duh.

Posted by ben tillman on December 12, 2005, 01:34 AM | #

You need only go to the nearest small town to find the Australian version of a hick: uneducated, racist and ignorant.

We recently read Geoff Beck’s review of Eellul’s Propaganda, in which Ellul observed that, when it comes to politics, it is the “educated” who are the most ignorant.

Posted by Svigor on December 12, 2005, 01:59 AM | #

So much to respond to.... how many of you are actually from Sydney or even Australia… I only ask because I keep getting referred to English or American websites and noticed that many of you do not have .au in your email addresses, also most of what has been written occurred when most Australians would be asleep....

But Sy, baby, we’re all Aussies, didn’t you know?

not that it matters, I accept people from overseas, I embrace their different cultures and backgounds. Whether you’re not Australian or not, I say G’day and welcome to our wonderful multi-cultural, multi-demoninational and diverse society. I hope you can learn about the principles of social justice and equality.

Ah, I see you were just proffering the argument in bad faith.  That figures.  You and yours (psychotic degenerates) are why I insist on the continued existence of multicultural territories for whites.  I don’t wantyou or yours in a nation meant for my people.  The difference between us (okay, one of many) is that you don’t want self-determination for me and mine, you want totalitarian leftism for all.

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 02:12 AM | #

I don’t remember the guys name, but the assassinated leader of the extreme right wing party in Holland was a gay man. Gays and Lesbians can be found in every walk of life and all sides of politics, left, right and centre.

Simon, with all respect, you don’t know what you are talking about.  Pim Fortuyn was not an extreme right winger.  He was a flamboyantly homosexual libertarian who wanted to curtail Islamic immigration for the purpose of preserving Dutch culture., which includes tolerance of gays.  He believed that Islam was incompatible with the very secular society you espouse, that it was incompatible with equal opportunity for women and that it was incompatible with gay rights.  He was brutally murdered (shot in the head) by a radical leftist who believed the mainstream media’s lie that, because he wanted to curtail immigration, Fortuyn was the reincarnation of Hitler. 

You are right that gay people can be found all over the political spectrum.  I’m gay, I’m a westerner and I love my culture.  I do not want to see it diluted with millions of unassimilable third world immigrants.  Even now, I walk down the streets here in Baltimore and there are people dressing in costumes that I don’t recognize, chattering away in languages I don’t understand.  You might find such a scene invigorating, but I feel like a stranger in my own country and I resent it.  Now you can call me a “racist” if you like, I really don’t care (though I will say that my desire to live among my own people is at least as natural and innate as is my sexuality, and you’re going to have as much luck turning me into a multiculturalist like yourself as a Christian would have turning me straight).  But I don’t think that I or people who feel as I do should keep their mouths shut about what is happening to their countries just because speaking up causes multiculturalists to have a hissy fit. 

Also, I enjoy the fact that I live in a society that is relatively tolerant of homosexuality.  Virulent homophobia can be found anywhere, but it is waaaaay more common in third world and non-western societies.  Even if we put aside my love of western culture, shy should I support bringing people who most likely hate me into my country?  That’s just stupid.

Posted by Rodrigo on December 12, 2005, 02:20 AM | #

mmm sum of the ppl here like to talk bout Muslims wen its go nuffin to wit can if u want but in the end its bout a race....im from westen sydney near parra n i see heaps of races like islanders maoris wogs latinos and aussie ect.. here we have fights not as big but still fights....well i have sum leb firends but i mostly hang around islanders n maoris the only lebs that coz problems is the ones that were rise here in aus n stop asking “oh but how do u noe that?” coz im from tha west were most lebs r n u see more shit on the streets then from ur home...this has happen coz of many factors....
1. race: many noe there aus-lebs but coz we call em wogs they will say there wogs
2. familys: as many in the west of sydney they have problems like mine too..so they get outa tha house n do other stuff eg start shit wit ppl for fun, anger or wateva
3. the shire: i go to the shire every week coz my gurl lives there. now as nice as sum can be sum look at u like as if ur gona start sumthing as i look latin they think imma fight sum for no reson..no every non-white person is bad
4. lebs coz alot shit..y? coz they want to i to hate the wanabes “gangstas leb” who start stuff with ppl who did nuffin or jus walkin down the street. as i once was in a gang but we didnt roll any inocet ppl we only had fights with other gangs n yes i noe it was stupid but thats life u live n learn

now the so called aussies that coz the riots now have to be ready for more (n im not saying that as a threat only from wat i noe from street gang life) coz wen u hit inocent ppl from a different race...they will hit back even hard n worst....

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 02:24 AM | #

Currently it is Middle Eastern Muslims, 25 years ago it was Asians, 50 years ago it was Greeks & Italians, 100 years ago it was the Irish.... maybe we should have learnt from the mistake 200 years ago when the English came here with guns and refused to adopt the national language, culture and religions/spititual beliefs.

There are times when it is sensible to compare current immigration trends with past immigration trends and times when it is not.  Were the Greeks and Italians 50 years ago riding a rising wave of religious fundamentalism?  Did the Irish and Asians have among them a vocal minority who dreamed of uniting the world under their rule?  Just because immigration has worked in the past doesn’t mean it will work in the future, especially, as in the case here in America, when the very societal norms that forced the long and painful (but necessary) process of assimilation have been broken down and replaced with a form of multiculturalism that I have difficulty seeing as leading to any sort of a real national identity.

Posted by Lurker on December 12, 2005, 02:26 AM | #

Cassie you wrote:

The caucasian population in Montreal embraces Middle Eastern immigrants, and while it is not perfect, it can serve as an example for many other cities around the world.

Immigration is important to Canada and Australia to expand our cultural diversity and to enrich our society.

First of all: The caucasian population in Montreal embraces Middle Eastern immigrants Does it? What actual evidence do you have for that? The local media gushing over small select groups? Right now we can see the fog of untruth with regard to Sydney. You live in Montreal & you’re caucasian? How many white Canadian guys have Muslim girlfriends? How many of your real friends are muslims, not just people you nod to at work, your real pour-your-heart-out-to go-for-drink-with bestest girlfriends? I could go on like that…

Next: while not perfect. Not perfect, not perfect?! It had better be better than perfect, it should damn well be better than perfect, it should be better than what went before. It cant be as good as or worse than the white dominated past. It, Montreal, must be more tolerant, more trusting, less violent, less crime, less divisive, less identity politics, less inter-racial violence. No honour killings or muslims raping white girls. And is it? Is it really? If it isnt what on earth is the point?

Finally: Immigration is important to Canada and Australia to expand our cultural diversity and to enrich our society. How much immigration would acheive these ends? Right now I believe @ 1 in 45 people in Australia are muslims, is that enriching enough yet? I have to presume not as you have already affirmed a belief in immigration ie more of it. So could say...1 in 40 be enough? How about 1 in 30, do I hear any advance on 1 in 25 ladies and gentlemen? Just say when Cassie.

Just remember to shout out loud and clear when you feel we’ve hit that magic enriching ratio. Of course there is a catch. You cant shout out when you Cassie, feel that there are maybe enough muslims in your town you might think it.

And thats when it hits you…

You were about to shout out in a clear, confidant reasoned liberal manner “OK, thats enough, obviously we are all good, rational, non-racist people but even we liberals can see thats enough muslim immigration, this country has the ideal racial mix (or whatever criteria)” You look round and realise that you can’t say anything, can’t do anything because you’re on your own, its not “we liberals” its just “you”, no-one is standing with you, there is silence and worse than silence you realise that there is someone more vocal and more liberal right standing behind you ready to shout you down as a vile racist. So of course you dont say anything.

This hasnt happened to you yet, remember when that moment comes, that it hits you just maybe there are one (or even as many as two perhaps) too many muslims in the West for your personal comfort, you might reflect on this.

Posted by Svigor on December 12, 2005, 02:36 AM | #

You are right that gay people can be found all over the political spectrum.  I’m gay, I’m a westerner and I love my culture.  I do not want to see it diluted with millions of unassimilable third world immigrants.

For the record this “nazi” thinks that homosexuality is totally irrelevant to WNism (not that you necessarily care Marc), though homosexualism is another matter.  In other words, homosexuals are welcome as far as I’m concerned.

Posted by Rodrigo on December 12, 2005, 02:39 AM | #

homosexuals??? wen did fags become a part of the riots??

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 02:40 AM | #

“I wish we could have a serious debate on these issues without name calling on both sides.” (—Marc)

Don’t be holier-than-thou, Marc—it’s extremely boring (-Fred)

I’m not trying to be holier than thou.  I’m trying to think of what is in the best long-term interests of our movement to revitalize the West. 

I believe that multiculturalism is, in the long-term, an unworkable intellectual fad.  I suspect you feel the same way.  It doesn’t take any great intelligence to see this, in my opinion, just common sense and a willingness to see.  I don’t know Simon, but my sense of him is that he is probably a young man with higher-than-average intelligence who wants to do the right thing. In short, I think he’s exactly the type of person we need to reach out to.  Now I doubt he’ll ever come around fully to our way of thinking since he boasts about having interracial family members.  But I hold out hope that if we simply tell him what we are about in a respectful way, he might leave the conversation respectuflly disagreeing, instead of believing us to be Nazis bent on cloning Hitler.  And respectful disagreement on these issues would be a huge improvement over the current situation, where prominent politicians who speak out against massive third world immigration get killed by brainwashed leftists (see my post above).  We have a responsibility to promote it, regardless of how our efforts are met.

Posted by Svigor on December 12, 2005, 02:42 AM | #

Great post Lurker, first-rate point about how liberals are so lacking in self-examination that they fail to see that there’s no stopping “diversity,” right up until (and past) the point it throttles them.

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 02:44 AM | #

homosexuals??? wen did fags become a part of the riots??

Rodrigo, that’s the first thing you’ve said on this comments box that is remotely intelligible (your last post gave me a migraine trying to translate it from whatever dialect you speak into English).  Glad to know I’ve brought out your articulate side. 

Posted by Svigor on December 12, 2005, 02:45 AM | #

Diversity: a black liberal, a brown liberal, a yellow liberal, a red liberal, a homosexual liberal, a female liberal…

Posted by Lurker on December 12, 2005, 02:46 AM | #

Thanks Svi.

Posted by Rodrigo on December 12, 2005, 02:49 AM | #

Marc, sorry if couldn’t understant what i was saying but im no good with writing, and on computers even worst

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 02:52 AM | #

For the record this “nazi” thinks that homosexuality is totally irrelevant to WNism (not that you necessarily care Marc), though homosexualism is another matter.  In other words, homosexuals are welcome as far as I’m concerned.

Actually Svigor, I appreciate the sentiment.

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 02:56 AM | #

Rodrigo.

It’s cool.  Just out of curiosity is English not your first language?  Not trying to be a dick, just saying that if that’s the case you might want to say as much in your posts.  People would probably cut you a lot more slack and show more patience in trying to decipher what you have to say.

Posted by Rodrigo on December 12, 2005, 03:12 AM | #

yes it isn’t

Posted by AD on December 12, 2005, 03:27 AM | #

Posted by Lurker on December 12, 2005, 03:37 AM | #

But why oh why are they flying those dreadful colonialist flags? Arent all Aussies supposed to favour the adoption of some dogs breakfast multi-culti progressive new flag of which various designs have been touted around for years.

Ha ha!

Posted by JB on December 12, 2005, 04:15 AM | #

JJRAY:
(I see the the M-word gets a mention at last)

what kind of pious muslims go to the beach to sexually harass white girs and verbally harass life guards ? It’s not religion but race/ethnicity. second generation african youths in Europe behave in a similar manner

Posted by JB on December 12, 2005, 04:27 AM | #

Jihan:
“I was born in Australia but have lived most of my life in Lebanon, when I came back here to study I couldn’t believe how these so called ‘wogs’ behave. Personally, I think it’s embarrassing. Their attitude would never be tolerated in Lebanon. In fact, they would be marginalised in the country.”

“I remember on Anzac day I watched on TV how a group of “middle eastern” guys were cursing at the police. I couldn’t believe that the police couldn’t do anything about it!!! if that happened in Lebanon they would’ve been in deeeeeeep trouble. I think what they need here is stricter laws.”

They would be severely punished and that’s what is lacking in white countries. They act like that because they’re surrounded by weak white males and politicians who are afraid of being called racists. Same thing for France, Sweden, Belgium, etc. They sense weakness. They’re like immature high school bullies on a nation-wide scale.

And you’re right about religion, it’s race.