Young Australians finally fed up with Muslim arrogance and aggression

Posted by Mark Richardson on December 11, 2005, 05:04 AM | #

Here’s a good article I don’t think has been linked to yet explaining why the young Aussie men took a stand:

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,17483188-5001021,00.html

There seems to have been a lot of sexual harassment of local women, as well as the bashings of the surf lifesavers. One of the local women interviewed stated that she now won’t go to the beach alone.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 11, 2005, 05:57 AM | #

The details cited in the article Mark linked are pretty outrageous—I found most nauseating where the Moslems called little girls taking swimming lessons “tarts” and harrassed a pregnant woman.  Moslem men can’t seem to deal with the sight of females of any age or condition who aren’t fully covered from head to toe.  You’re going to get that behavior from them as long as you permit them to immigrate to Western countries in large numbers:  it’s unavoidable.  I deeply respect the Moslem religion (as I do all religions) but reading stories like this, you realize it simply doesn’t “transplant” well:  it needs to stay where it is, in Moslem society, and not try to go elsewhere.
______
Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!

Posted by Steve Edwards on December 11, 2005, 06:41 AM | #

I have nothing much against Muslims either...when they are left free to do as they like in their own countries. We have nothing to prove to the world by permitting mass immigration, and absolutely nothing to gain.

Posted by Anonymous on December 11, 2005, 06:46 AM | #

If Kim Beasley and Labor get their way they’ll fill the rest of Australia with Arabs too. Thanks to the current executive, however, it won’t be quite so easy for them to change the flag, which appears to be taking on a whole new meaning among young Australians. At least not without a popular vote. Previously it was the intention of Labor to scuttle the current flag but this appears politically possible in the medium term.

Posted by Jihan on December 11, 2005, 06:56 AM | #

The first thing I would like to point out here is that the guys who carried out all these abuses DO NOT represent all of the people who are of lebanese decent. I was born in Australia but have lived most of my life in Lebanon, when I came back here to study I couldn’t believe how these so called ‘wogs’ behave. Personally, I think it’s embarrassing. Their attitude would never be tolerated in Lebanon. In fact, they would be marginalised in the country.

Allow me to point out that these guys were born and raised in Australia, so whatever their ideologies may be they do not correspond to that of other Lebanese (in Lebanon) nor to that of Australians. I believe they are lost in between both cultures and I just wish their parents would instil some manners in them. As for the issue of religion, it is quite contradictory to hear the media and members of the Australian community refer to them as Muslims and then state that they have nothing against the religion.  By using the expression “these Muslims” you’re referring to all Muslims - whether you mean it or not, that’s the impression that is being portrayed. Refraining from using such stereotypical terms to pin point trouble-makers would reflect respect towards other followers. These gangsters’ actions are un-islamic and I just wish they could wake up to themselves. But it is up to both sides to give and take and violence is definitely not part of the solution.

I don’t mean this in a rude way, but if you haven’t been to the Middle East and have not witnessed how Muslims live then you have no right to criticise and generalise.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 11, 2005, 07:22 AM | #

“Allow me to point out that these guys were born and raised in Australia” (—Jihan)

How do you know that? 

“if you haven’t been to the Middle East and have not witnessed how Muslims live then you have no right to criticise and generalise.” (—Jihan)

Obviously Moslem men aren’t harrassing Moslem women in the Middle East—if they tried they’d get their throats slit or something.  There’s some factor that keeps them under control there which is absent in the West.  That something is Moslem society in general, in all its detail and tradition, including ... well, including getting their throats slit if they tried harrassing Moslem women over there.  That society and its built-in controls on men’s behavior can’t be imported lock, stock, and barrel to the West, so what happens when Moslem men come here is they feel no restraints and run amok when they see Western girls and women.  They don’t know how to behave.  If you deny this, Jihan, please explain why this sort of unacceptable behavior on the part of Moslem males (teenage boys and grown men) is the story we keep hearing coming out of all Euro and Western societies where there’s been a large Moslem influx.
______

-- “All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.”—Enoch Powell
-- Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!
-- Balkanization is better than Brazilianization!
-- The 1965 Immigration-Holocaust Act:  the gift that keeps on giving!
-- What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the usual suspects!

Posted by anonymous on December 11, 2005, 07:46 AM | #

The ubiquitous low IQ and concomitant problems of impulse control and sexual and physical violence among Arabs is well-established for those who care to look.

Posted by Jihan on December 11, 2005, 08:08 AM | #

Hi Fred,

Interesting question....I’ve been trying to figure that out myself for the past 4 years. Well, with regards to your first question, I know these guys were born and raised in Australia due to the fact that they can barely speak Arabic. When they go back to Lebanon for a visit they have difficulties communicating with the rest. And if they do speak a little Arabic, it’s really broken. Another thing, if you go to Lebanon and see Lebanese guys there you will find a HUGE difference in the way they behave, dress and, most importantly, talk!

As for the issue of Muslim men not harassing women in the Middle East, of course it happens!! and a lot of them get away with it. but then again that happens everywhere but in different ways. And no, they don’t get their throats slit...the reason why their general misbehaviour is not tolerated has a lot to do with disrespect. I remember on Anzac day I watched on TV how a group of “middle eastern” guys were cursing at the police. I couldn’t believe that the police couldn’t do anything about it!!! if that happened in Lebanon they would’ve been in deeeeeeep trouble. I think what they need here is stricter laws.

Going back to your main question, I completely agree that a lot of the trouble that has been emanating from the West has been caused by Muslim minorities. I went to university in Paris for 6 months and I myself was constantly harassed by North Africans (they thought I was French). And then I just started asking myself WHY? why do they do this and why do they have to be Muslims? oh by the way, the Lebanese minority in France are the most respected minorities in France. The only answers I could come up with until now is that they mostly come from lower middle-class backgrounds and are not interested in improving their lives by acquiring a decent education. They base their acts on ludicrous religious and political ideologies that are based on falsely shaped anti-western conceptions (political of course, they think the west is anti-arab and therefore anti-islamic).

Surely you will find other minorities who create havoc but their religious identity is never mentioned...such as latin americans in the US or Asians in Sydney.  It’s a shame really and although i’m not a religious person and not even 100% lebanese I try my best to clarify the stance of other decent Lebanese who have to deal with the ramifications of such incidents.  I hope this helps!

Posted by J Richards on December 11, 2005, 08:22 AM | #

Whoops!

What the hell do you know about Islamic behavior, Jihan?  Prophet Mohammed slaughtered a huge number of innocents (see this and this), had over a dozen wives and numerous concubines, and even had sex with a 9-year-old pre-pubescent girl (proof: here and here)!  He made it clear that Moslems are allowed to rape their female slaves, even if they are married.  What a role model for Moslems!

Posted by Jihan on December 11, 2005, 08:35 AM | #

Yeah what do I know about Islamic behaviour right? I only studied it all my life, lived amongst Islamic communities for most of my life, have carried out extensive research on all monotheistic religions, I’m currently doing my MA in Human Rights Law whilst focusing on political Islam and I’ve worked for the UN where I got a hands on experience on Human Rights and Islamic behaviour. As for those links you’ve googled - i’ve already seen them all and I can provide you with more if you wish. Religion is a huge topic that cannot be summed up in one tiny paragraph. From what I know, all religions have faults and no one is right.

Posted by Mark Richardson on December 11, 2005, 08:40 AM | #

Jihan, I agree with one of your observations. Second generation immigrants are often the most alienated for exactly the reason you mention - they are lost between two cultures.

But what this goes to show is that a communal identity is important for individuals. Western liberals are busy destroying such identities amongst both immigrants and the host population. They harm both groups - but at least the immigrants have a choice of returning to a homeland (perhaps you yourself are in this situation, having returned to live in Lebanon).

Posted by J Richards on December 11, 2005, 08:49 AM | #

Jihan,

If you are so knowledgeable, then let me see you refute the evidence that I have linked to.  In fact, this site openly challenges Moslems that if any Moslem refutes any of their criticisms of Islam, they will remove the criticism from their site, and if all their criticisms are refuted, they will remove their entire site.  Don’t waste your time debating us; register at their forums and debate them and post links to your rebuttals here.

Posted by Jihan on December 11, 2005, 08:51 AM | #

I totally agree with you Mark. I actually came back to Australia for the sole purpose of advancing my education. I love it here but of course I feel attached to my homeland and will be returning when I finish my degree. And I have always said that if the Lebanese youth does not feel it can integrate here then they ought to go back to Lebanon (although I am certain that they will face an identity crisis there too). It’s a complicated issue but it cannot be ignored or brushed away.

Posted by Jihan on December 11, 2005, 09:01 AM | #

Ok this is my last post. Never thought I’d get so many replies hehe

J, i’ve already seen that site - the author is I think persian. As you know Persian are Shiites. they’re infamous for their extreme religious ideologies. I don’t agree with any of their concepts so I don’t blame them for refuting the religion. Nor do I agree with Sunni extremists either. and i’m not trying to act as a knowledgeable person here, I was just giving my opinion. I’m not attacking you or attempting to challenge your arguments. it’s amazing how the topics always shift to Islam. Oh well, I tried !

Posted by yoy on December 11, 2005, 09:10 AM | #

It’s always been about Islam Jihan

If you can’t see that then your ‘education’ seems to have been wasted

Posted by Kieran on December 11, 2005, 09:16 AM | #

If the mob started to beat up the gangs then I would not have a problem. Instead they turned on police, paramedics and anyone who looked ‘middle eastern’. Regardless on your stand on the issue of race relations in Australia, anyone can see that the mob’s behaviour was ‘un-Australian’. There is no way for anyone to justify what happened in Cronulla today. Innocent people should never get hurt. Doesn’t matter if you’re white, Leb or other!

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 09:35 AM | #

Jihan,

Welcome to our site. I hope you keep coming back. We welcome diverse opinions and are not a unidimensional website that is intolerant of opinions it disagrees with. We are a Free Speech website and in my memory not a single comment has ever been deleted here, which is remarkable when you think about it.

In terms of Islam, Jihan, you will note that in most Western societies Muslim immigrants display some of the same tendencies we are now seeing in Australia. Read about Denmark, Holland and Sweden - which used to be (and Sweden still is), the most liberal societies on earth. And yet their Muslims are every bit as problematic as the ones in Australia. And need I say more about France. And, Britain has its problems too.

One excellent writer in this regard is Theodore Dalrymple. Here are two excellent articles by him:

The Suicide Bombers among us

When Islam breaks down

Both of those articles, I think, demonstrate fundamental problems with Islam as a religion.

I should also add that the position most of us take on Muslim immigration is the same as we would take on non-white Christian or Buddhist immigration. We wish to preserve the racial composition of European societies and do wish them altered (actually we do not wish the racial composition of any society to be altered or destroyed). And we therefore propose a moratorium on all immigration plus voluntary repatriation.

Guys,

Lets not get too combative here. Jihan was open minded enough to pay us a visit. And he has been civil in his debate. Let us return the favour.

Posted by Paul on December 11, 2005, 10:05 AM | #

These riots are a disgrace to all involved. These so called “Aussies” are an absolute embarrasment to our nation. We belong to Australia, it does not belong to us like some sort of god given right.

These same “Aussies” are the ones that are happy to yell racist comments to our aboriginal people..... even though we all came here and invaded their way of life and nearly destroyed their population.

Australia is a multicultural nation and we should be proud of all the advantages that that brings, not expressing ourselves through this form of thuggery and unintelligent racist dribble!

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 10:31 AM | #

Australia is a multicultural nation and we should be proud of all the advantages that that brings

Excellent words of wisdom offered by a Liberal to those who get beaten up regularly by Muslim gangs or to white girls who get gang-raped by Muslim men.

Posted by Mark Richardson on December 11, 2005, 11:31 AM | #

Paul, you have to decide what you believe in. At the moment, you are advocating two contradictory things.

If it is really true that a country cannot belong to a particular group of people, and that multiculturalism is a great advantage, and that it is racist to suggest otherwise, then the Aborigines should have welcomed the arrival of white settlers as a tremendous event in their history, as a multicultural enrichment of their own society, and any Aborigine who objected ought to have been shouted down by his fellow tribesman as an immoral racist.

But this is not what you say about the Aborigines. In fact, you talk about an “invasion” which put in peril their population and their way of life.

So you need some time to think about what you really believe in. If you really do believe in the importance of distinct cultures and peoples, then you should support both the preservation of the Aborigines and the Anglo-Australians.

If, though, you really believe in multiculturalism, then you ought to look down on those seeking to preserve the Aboriginal population and way of life as much as you do those defending the existence of an Anglo-Australian tradition.

Otherwise you can’t be taken seriously.

Posted by Kate on December 11, 2005, 11:32 AM | #

You have to admit this uprising has some uncanny similarities with the Eureka Stockade. A flag waving \"mob\" acting in its own interests uniformly condemned by the police and authorities.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 11:36 AM | #

Mark,

That is an excellent observation and it confirms suspicion that the Liberal’s opinions are driven more by humanitarian vanity than logic. And being consistently anti-White is more flattering to the vanity of the Liberal than being logically consistent.

Posted by Guessedworker on December 11, 2005, 11:43 AM | #

Giving up your land - even land you acquired by conquest - is dumb, Paul.  The New Masters won’t thank you for it.  And they won’t be liberals like you.  One happy, happy world of happy, happy, self-authoring individuals is not part of reality.  Do try to wash from your heart and mind the worthless liberal indoctrination you have absorbed (I am assuming here that you don’t actually want Western Man to be destroyed).

Posted by kate on December 11, 2005, 12:01 PM | #

No doubt underlying the anger at muslims is the savage acts of terrorism killing thousands and thousands of innocent westerners, making their hatred of us very clear.

That has bought our attention to the muslim religion and culture.  We are very aware of the differences and they are massive and underpined by a belief, that any none muslim, is dirty and unworthy.

Yet you live in our countries, you choose to live in “white” cultures.  You accept our generosity, our social services, housing and tolerance of the differences, but do nothing, to integrate, to become “friendly” neighbours, pleasant working colleagues who share social activities, learn about our culture and respect “our differences”.

There is contempt towards our young women, our daughters, who were born here, from immigrant parents, who learned to adjust and become part of Australian culture.

You, are protected by racist laws, yet use racism against us, in our own country.

How dare you, come into our country and hold a contemptuous view of the way we live our lives.  How dare you call our children whores.  How dare you attack life savers who have the guts to stand up for their female companion.

Don’t give me the excuse of “torn between 2 cultures” these boys, come from homes where they are taught to despise anyone who is not like them.

If you want to live here, become a citizen and hold a passport, become Australian & don’t expect us, to take on your culture.

Posted by John on December 11, 2005, 12:35 PM | #

Paul, I don’t know where you get your idea that Cronulla residents yell racist comments at aboriginal people. The Cronulla people are standing up to gang violence and sexist abuse by Lebanese muslim youths. That’s not racist, and has nothing to with attitudes towards other races or aborigines.

Of the Cronulla people I know, none feel anything but warmth and acceptance for aboriginal people.

You might be interested to know that Lebanese muslim youths in Australia are often extremely racist towards aboriginal people. They see them as black skips.

Posted by friedrich braun on December 11, 2005, 12:56 PM | #

Paul, you have to decide what you believe in. At the moment, you are advocating two contradictory things.

If it is really true that a country cannot belong to a particular group of people, and that multiculturalism is a great advantage, and that it is racist to suggest otherwise, then the Aborigines should have welcomed the arrival of white settlers as a tremendous event in their history, as a multicultural enrichment of their own society, and any Aborigine who objected ought to have been shouted down by his fellow tribesman as an immoral racist.

This is one of the sharpest things I’ve read in a long time.

Of course, if I wanted to play the Devil’s advocate I could gently point out that the arrival of Whites was followed by the dispossession of Aborigines; hence, why should they feel enriched? However, the same dispossession and racial replacement is now occurring in the West...but the victims are White this time around. Additonally, the fate of the Aborigines (perhaps the world’s most primitive tribe...certainly the ugliest) doesn’t keep me awake at night. You see, I care about my people and what happens to them...particularly since they’re locked in a death struggle for survival.

Posted by Mike on December 11, 2005, 01:03 PM | #

Again!! The minority extremists vent their anger while the majority of innocents suffer.

Last week, innocent beachgoers and lifesavers of local origin were the victims of extremist “australians” that think they are lebanese. The gangs of so-called “lebanese” are far from it.

They are thugs with an identity crisis that seem to have gotten their identity from American ghetto culture. Dumb village idiots who identify with two countries (the US and lebanon) both of which they’ve probably never been to.

This week, innocent beachgoers and those of ethic origin were the victims of extremeist “rednecks” that think they are australian. The gangs of so-called “australians” are far from it and certainly do not represent the majority. I saw the pickup trucks with aussie flags full of yahooing yobos drive down the Kingsway today and I had to do a double-take as I thought that I was in Alabama or something.

Each side is quick to add that this is a racial issue. Why, because it supports their hatred. If this continues to be a racial issue, then the majority of peaceful australians will continue to suffer as racial issues tend to favour the minority.

This is a criminal issue and the rights of the majority (of whatever background) are violated due to the upholding of minority rights. Punish harsher. More police, even a bit of heavy-handed policing like the old days.

And poor Mr. Iemma, who sits on the fence and says nothing of value at the best of times. What to do? Mr Iemma.

Does one show the racist redneck minority of Sutherland his tough stance on ethnic gang violence?

Or does one show the anti-anglo saxon violent minority of Bankstown and Lakemba (not far from his electorate) his tough stance on racism?

Posted by Sam on December 11, 2005, 01:09 PM | #

Why are so many of you equating people of Lebanese/Middle Eastern ethnicity as being representative of what it means to be a muslim???

Its like saying all members of the IRA are truely representative of what it means to be a Christian…

The reality is that you will find dickheads where ever you go in the world… White/black/brown/yellow.. And of all different religions… Take your pick, there are plenty of idiots out there…

I would hardly claim the IRA as representing the majority viewpoint of all Christians, so rather than assuming that these Lebanese trouble makers are muslims maybe they should just be viewed as idiots trying to impress themselves…

Anyway maybe if the swell comes up everone can get back to doing something worth while…

Sam

Posted by friedrich braun on December 11, 2005, 01:25 PM | #

Why are so many of you equating people of Lebanese/Middle Eastern ethnicity as being representative of what it means to be a muslim???

One problem: there’s an obvious pattern at work. These aren’t some isolated, extraordinary events. Arab Muslims demonstrate the same type of behaviour in all White/Western societies wich they happen to infest; therefore, one is lead to belief that harassing White females, assaulting White males, disrespecting the culture of the host population, etc. is indeed “representative of what it means to be a muslim"… at least in the West.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 01:55 PM | #

Modern day Australia is not an exclusively White Anglo-Saxon, Christian, English speaking nation, It is multicultural and multi denominational.
30% of Australians admit to being Atheist or Agnostic, this figure would be a lot higher (well over 50%) if people filled in the census by their conscience and not by habit or family pressures. Up until the 1920’s, it was illegal to educate Catholics in England, and therefore this country as well.
Many of our first arrivals, the convicts, were sent here for being non-christian, usually Pagan or Wiccan, the Celtic religions, however many were also sent here for being Atheist or Agnostic.
An Australian is anyone who identifies with the term.
Atheist through to Zionist.
Whether here by default (ie: born here), circumstance or choice.
The colour of your skin, eyes, hair is irrelevant. As is a persons religion, wealth/class, political affiliation, sexuality, gender, language, cultural background or anything else.
“Our flag” didn’t actually become the official Australian flag until 1967, before that we went under the Union Jack, a flag I have absolutely no allegiance to.
“Politically correct” basically means being polite. Accepting people as they are. It means a “FAIR GO”. The right wing try to belittle it, they have total disdain for the principles of social justice and equality, in other words they are opposed to a fair go. In their eyes fair go means if you’re not fair, you have to go.
If you don’t like our “Way of Life” (SOCIAL JUSTICE & EQUALITY), I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, “THE RIGHT TO LEAVE”.... just because you were born here, doesn’t mean you have to stay.
I personally am an Atheist from an Irish and German background, I have relatives who are Koori, Arabic and Asian. We are just as Australian as anybody else, maybe even more so. My hair is blonder and my eyes bluer than any of you will ever dream about.
Cronulla is a youth issue, not a racial one.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 02:06 PM | #

And people wonder why the west is disappearing down the toilet.............(chuckle)

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 02:16 PM | #

Where is the evidence that “the west is disappearing down the toilet”? All we see on the news is that it keeps invading and bombing other countries for absolutely no valid reason.
We live in a secular society...not a christian one… freedom of and freedom from ALL forms of religion should be at the forefront of our concerns.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 02:20 PM | #

Where is the evidence that “the west is disappearing down the toilet”?

I don’t argue with religious fanatics.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 02:21 PM | #

Does any of this sound familiar?
Hitler’s Germany is really not that different to Howard’s Australia.
70 years on. Are we about to repeat history?
“Those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past are bound to repeat them”

14 characteristics common to fascist regimes.
Comparisons of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto, and Pinochet yielded this list of 14 “identifying characteristics of fascism.”

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc
4. Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
6. Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 02:25 PM | #

I’m neither religious nor a fanatic.... Atheism is not a religion...just like baldness is not a hair color.
I support a secular society… the total separation of church and state… freedom of and freedom from ALL forms of religion

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 02:28 PM | #

I’m Speechless. ROTFL

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 02:35 PM | #

I’m neither religious nor a fanatic

You are both. Your left-liberalism is your religion. You are waging your own Jihad. And in your mind the tenets of your faith are above all scrutiny and/or doubt and no other opinions or points of view have any credibility.

And you are fanatical. As your screeds here demonstrate.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 02:48 PM | #

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
CRONULLA
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
SEDITION LAWS
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
MUSLIMS
4. Supremacy of the Military
IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, EAST TIMOR… New Zealand will probably be next.
5. Rampant Sexism
BABY BONUS, ABORTION, GAY MARRAIGE BAN
6. Controlled Mass Media
MURDOCH/PACKER...CUTS & CONTROLS OF “OUR” ABC
7. Obsession with National Security
SEE CRONULLA plus THE LAST 3 ELECTION CAMPAIGNS
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
FAMILY FIRST, CHRISTIAN DEMOCRATS, LIBERAL & LABOR @ HILLSONG
9. Corporate Power is Protected
WORK CHOICES
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
WORK CHOICES
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
VSU, ABC FUNDING CUTS,
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
ALL RECENT ELECTION CAMPAIGNS OR JUST READ DAILY TELEGRAPH
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
ROBERT GERARD
14. Fraudulent Elections
SMEAR CAMPAIGNS AGAINST BROGDEN in NSW, LATHAM, CREAN & BEASLEY on Federal Level...even against COSTELLO from ALP. Both major parties are complicit.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 02:56 PM | #

Simon,

Why haven’t they packed off brave dissidents like you to the camps yet? 

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 02:57 PM | #

Further to the smear campaigns.. both the Libs/Nats & ALP have used them against Bob Brown and Pauline Hansen… the 2 major parties are exactly the same, they should just form a grand coalition and be done with it.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 03:01 PM | #

These leftists are so screwed up in their heads that they contradict themselves every minute they open their mouths.

Our friend Simon just wondered where is the evidence that the West is disappearing down the toilet and then proceeded to rattle off a political screed suggesting that Australia has already been taken over by Fascists.

You need some Prozac mate.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 03:02 PM | #

Give it time, the sedition and work choice laws have only just been passed.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 03:09 PM | #

Actually, a tyranny is emerging in some Western nations. It is however a type of tyranny that you and your chums would approve of.

See here.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 03:10 PM | #

I also back up my claims with a few facts, a damn side more than the right has ever done.
Why do you have a problem with a secular society?
Why are you so fearful of Islam taking over this country?
Muslims only represent 1.5% of the population… Atheists are 27% & Buddhists 2% represent a bigger proportion of the population.
Surely Athiests represent a much bigger threat to your chosen Christian lifestyle than Islam?

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 03:15 PM | #

You direct me to a site in which the British National Party whinges about Canada and expect I should take it as fact…
I think I’ll file that one under 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 11, 2005, 03:47 PM | #

Are you a homosexual, Simon?
______
-- “All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.”—Enoch Powell
-- Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!
-- Balkanization is better than Brazilianization!
-- The 1965 Immigration-Holocaust Act:  the gift that keeps on giving!
-- What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the usual suspects!

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 03:55 PM | #

Simon,

I’ll take that as a yes for the Gulag and for thought control.

Like all leftists you are basically a totalitarian (and also rabidly insane - but we shall come to that later) but one who wants your brand of totalitarianism to win.

Therefore, you see nothing wrong in imprisoning a man for writing an article about crime and immigration. Freedom depends on the freedom of expression - first and foremost. Once that is gone, the rest is a formality. “I disaprove of what
you say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it”, as Voltaire once wrote. That is the bedrock of freedom.

I do not of course expect any such fair play from left-wing totalitarians like yourself and others of your ilk.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 04:08 PM | #

I have no idea what a person’s sexuality has to do with the debate about racism.
The answer is no, but if you want to think I am, I’ll take it as a compliment.
Your links show us that you are a right wing christian biggoted fascist.
Now where would we file your comments and links?
I’m thinking all of the following.
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
5. Rampant Sexism
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Are you a closet gay boy?

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 04:12 PM | #

Fifth rate arguments followed by abuse. A standard trademark of the modern left.

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 04:13 PM | #

Freedom of and from religion is what believe in.... if any govt or individual wanted to stop you from practising christianity or any other religion...atheists would be the 1st to protest against such a move.... do you think christians or others would rally to support our right to not believe?
BTW: you never answered my questions, here they are again.
Why do you have a problem with a secular society?
Why are you so fearful of Islam taking over this country?
Muslims only represent 1.5% of the population… Atheists are 27% & Buddhists 2% represent a bigger proportion of the population.
Surely Athiests represent a much bigger threat to your chosen Christian lifestyle than Islam?

Posted by Simon on December 11, 2005, 04:32 PM | #

My post which said

I have no idea what a person’s sexuality has to do with the debate about racism.
The answer is no, but if you want to think I am, I’ll take it as a compliment.
Your links show us that you are a right wing christian biggoted fascist.
Now where would we file your comments and links?
I’m thinking all of the following.
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
5. Rampant Sexism
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Are you a closet gay boy?

was totally intended for

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sunday, December 11, 2005 at 03:47 PM

note he hasn’t responded as yet
Also Phil wont answer my quetions either.
Maybe they’re a bit too hard for him.

Posted by Guessedworker on December 11, 2005, 05:25 PM | #

Simon,

Believe it or not- and no doubt you won’t - your questions are too shallow and immature to merit consideration.

Your painful shallowness and immaturity was the reason Fred queried - if you will excuse the pun - whether you like girls.  Shallowness and immaturity are highly characteristic of liberals, and explain why they have such difficulty in dealing with such concepts as, for example, Darwinism and sociobiology, human-biodiversity (the rich birthright of human characteristics which define us racially, nation-ally, sexually), and ethnic genetic interests and the loyalties and obligations they entail.

Guys like us don’t despise you or hate you for your gauche incapacity.  You entertain us.  But for the most part we know it is useless to rejoin with our worldview.  You cannot process it. 

There is some evidence that genetics has a role in that.  But mostly I think it’s a product of unfavourable circumstances in the home during childhood.

Posted by Desmond Jones on December 11, 2005, 06:06 PM | #

Atheism portends moral relativism, which is dangerous because the goal posts for morality are constantly moving. Atheistic societies, have slaughtered millions.

Equality=tyranny. It severely limits freedom of speech and freedom of association, especially in a multi-cultural setting.

Identifying scapegoats is only necessary in a heterogeneous society. Abe Foxman et al identify Christian fundies as Nazis because it aids and abets their secular doctrine. Anti-semitism is a unifying cause.

Islamic dominance in a society would preclude atheists. Jews and Christians might be able to live in dhimmitude but atheists will have to convert or be killed. Which Islamic country embraces 27% atheists in their population? Islamic dominance will preclude the freedoms you desire. Charles Murray, for instance, concludes that Christian humanism propelled the last five centuries of Western progress. The fundamental principle of separation of church and State, Rousseau’s doctrine, arose from Aquinas’ assertion that human intelligence is a gift from God and should be celebrated.

Gay marriage will only serve to denigrate the centuries old monogamous man/women marriage tradition the West is built upon. It serves only to heap further disdain upon one of the fundamental institutions of the West. It proclaims the folly that reason is superior to tradition in forming a moral state.

Posted by Gaz on December 11, 2005, 08:12 PM | #

Freidrich Braun comments that, ‘catholics were denied education in england until the 1920’s’ is utter bollocks. I don’t think any squarehead neo-nazi has anything sensible to bring to the debate, what did the nazis ever achieve? oh yes that’s it they murdered and pillaged europe and lost the war leading to 50 years of nuclear stand-off. Some achievement. German twat.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 08:19 PM | #

Gaz,

While I am no fan of Friedrich and have had many disagreements with him, this wasn’t his comment. That comment was by our esteemed comrade “Simon” who has let off quite a vile (and utterly irrational) screed so far as you can see. And, from his comments, I gather he is an Australian.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 11, 2005, 08:29 PM | #

“My post which said [etc.] was totally intended for [...] Fred Scrooby [...N]ote he hasn’t responded as yet” (—Simon)

“I have no idea what a person’s sexuality has to do with the debate about racism.” (—Simon)

I asked if you were a homosexual because your brand of extreme left-wing degenerateness/nihilism and the intensity with which you espouse it are seen more often, relatively speaking, in certain groups, homosexuals both male and female being two such.

“If you want to think I am [homosexual] I’ll take it as a compliment.”

I won’t ask why.

“Your links show us that you are a right wing christian biggoted fascist.”

Though I use the right-wing/left-wing terminology of course, that terminology breaks down in many ways, and I feel it makes more sense to view myself not as right-wing but as normal and you as degenerate.  A normal person wants normalness to have ascendancy over degenerateness in society and a degenerate person wants degenerateness to have ascendancy over normalness in society.
______
-- “All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.”—Enoch Powell
-- Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!
-- Balkanization is better than Brazilianization!
-- The 1965 Immigration-Holocaust Act:  the gift that keeps on giving!
-- What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the usual suspects!

Posted by Mark Richardson on December 11, 2005, 08:44 PM | #

Gaz, you’re right that such a claim is ludicrous, but I thought that it was Simon who made the claim rather than Friedrich.

I had to laugh when I read the claim that Catholics weren’t allowed to be educated until the 1920s. My own illustrious Catholic school dates back to 1883. I think maybe Simon means that Catholics couldn’t get a degree at Oxford or Cambridge until the 1820s.

Note too how Simon on the one hand is fearful that Australia is on the verge of fascism, but he then makes an incredibly authoritarian claim for his own liberal politics. He defines the Australian way of life itself as being the liberal way of social justice and equality, and says that anyone who disagrees with his politcs should leave the country.

Not much room for political dissent in your world view is there Simon? Let’s see, you give us a choice of: liberalism or ........ liberalism. With old-fashioned exile as a punishment for heretics.

Posted by EC on December 11, 2005, 09:01 PM | #

The question begging to be asked to Simple Simon is why the need to get his blood pressure up fighting the fascists in Australia?  Why not jettison that tyrannical state for freer nations and regions that would cater to his whims and appreciate his free flowing ideas?  Places like the Middle East, Africa, India or China.  Simple Simon would no longer have to concern himself with such heavy issues ever again.  His only concern in his new home would be to make sure he didn’t get his throat slit and his entrails fed to him.  Other than that, he’d be happy.

Posted by Marc on December 11, 2005, 09:33 PM | #

Your painful shallowness and immaturity was the reason Fred queried - if you will excuse the pun - whether you like girls.

Cute pun.

Simon could have handled himself better, but someone’s sexuality really is irrelevant to a discussion on racism.  Putting aside the possible correlation between homosexuality and some forms of arrested mental development, our shallow, materialistic societies produce plenty of childish heterosexual adults.  So it’s hard to see why childish antagonism, perceived or real, should be a red flag for homosexuality. 

I think Fred was just name-calling, personally.  Simon, unfortunately, was too eager to stoop to his level and call Fred a right wing bigoted Christian Fascist.  (It’s been a while since I’ve posted here, but isn’t Fred Jewish?)

I wish we could have a serious debate on these issues without name calling on both sides.

Posted by Cassie on December 11, 2005, 09:44 PM | #

I’m not sure what sort of website I have stumbled upon here. Nevertheless I was quite appalled to read some of the postings here. First of all, the problems facing Sydney as a whole are racial tensions. Priveleged white males of my generation have been fed hateful slogans and information both by the media and by their parents. Racism runs deep in the Australian psyche. You need only go to the nearest small town to find the Australian version of a hick: uneducated, racist and ignorant.

As I have lived in Sydney, going to school there in one of the Eastern Suburbs, I understand the issues that the city faces. It is not one of immigration (as some of you postulated). It is instead an issue of integration. In Canada, there is a very large Middle Eastern population in Montreal. This is a city of similar size, ethnic make-up and cultural importance as Sydney. To date there have been no race related riots in the streets. There was, following Sept. 11 the bombing with molotov cocktails of a Jewish library. This was found to be the work of one individual and his mother, not an angry mob. The caucasian population in Montreal embraces Middle Eastern immigrants, and while it is not perfect, it can serve as an example for many other cities around the world.

Immigration is important to Canada and Australia to expand our cultural diversity and to enrich our society. The youths in Cornulla should have reported the behaviour of the harrassment by Lebanese males to a higher authority. Violence is not Australia standing tall. It is not Australians showing pride or proving a point. It is wrong and will incite more hatred. Shame on the Bra Boys and shame on the media for escalating a simple cultural dilemma into a global story. The world’s eyes are on Cornulla (and the rest of the city), and time will tell whether Australians deal with this in an acceptable and reasonable way or further embarass themselves on the world stage.

Out of Iraq and through these riots Australia is looking less and less like a multi-cultural haven and more like an American puppet and hotbed for racism. Please spread positive words, and to those Australian-Muslims who may be reading this post-- my heart goes out to your community. Further rioting and violence among your own youths, however, will only serve to undermine your plight. Peace....

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 09:46 PM | #

Marc,

If you read Simon’s comments carefully, you will realise that serious debate with people like him is impossible. His comments are stupidity and immaturity writ large and have little more than a bit of entertainment value. They are utterly devoid of logical content.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 10:38 PM | #

Cassie,

Thank you for those kind words. We really are in need of those words of wisdom from time to time - they are utterly missing from the mass media and without right-minded people like yourself, God knows what this world would come to. I feel like a sinner now and feel that you have really showed me the way. Thanks.

By the way, do you also have some words of wisdom for these poor girls? They may disagree with you about the “enrichment” bit. (I had never realised that “enrichment” was so seriously lacking in so many things other than Uranium. Thanks for pointing it out to us)

These girls may even get the odd “bigoted” thought, heaven forbid - and may God save them if they do for they will have committed the worst most unpardonable sin any (caucasian) human being could ever commit. Do you have any words of wisdom for them? Thanks again. It was a pleasure reading your comments.

cheers,

Phil

Posted by Marc on December 11, 2005, 10:45 PM | #

Immigration is important to Canada and Australia to expand our cultural diversity and to enrich our society

Cassie, you’re obviously an intelligent woman.  At least, you write intelligently enough.  Do you really believe this statement?  Do you really believe that all cultures are equal? 

What about cultures that practice genital mutilation, stone adulterers, and hang homosexuals?  Surely if you are a liberal, you believe that women have the right to not have their genitals mutilated, and that people should not be executed for their private sex lives.  Would you let these cultures into your backyard?

And if you are going to exclude these cultures, well, does that make you a “racist”?  Or does it make you someone who wants to preserve her own freedom and way of life? 

I think when you can honestly answer those last questions you’ll start to realize why so many people have such a problem with government-enforced diversity.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 10:50 PM | #

Oh and Cassie, I forgot:  these girls too. They may need some sensitivity training.

Thanks for popping by!

Posted by Freddy on December 11, 2005, 11:22 PM | #

Convicts sent to Australia for being “Wiccans”?! LOL!

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 11:27 PM | #

Marc,

From one of the articles I linked to above:

This pattern of betrothal causes suffering as intense as any I know of. It has terrible consequences. One father prevented his daughter, highly intelligent and ambitious to be a journalist, from attending school, precisely to ensure her lack of Westernization and economic independence. He then took her, aged 16, to Pakistan for the traditional forced marriage (silence, or a lack of open objection, amounts to consent in these circumstances, according to Islamic law) to a first cousin whom she disliked from the first and who forced his attentions on her. Granted a visa to come to Britain, as if the marriage were a bona fide one—the British authorities having turned a cowardly blind eye to the real nature of such marriages in order to avoid the charge of racial discrimination—he was violent toward her.

She had two children in quick succession, both of whom were so severely handicapped that they would be bedridden for the rest of their short lives and would require nursing 24 hours a day. (For fear of giving offense, the press almost never alludes to the extremely high rate of genetic illnesses among the offspring of consanguineous marriages.) Her husband, deciding that the blame for the illnesses was entirely hers, and not wishing to devote himself to looking after such useless creatures, left her, divorcing her after Islamic custom. Her family ostracized her, having concluded that a woman whose husband had left her must have been to blame and was the next thing to a whore. She threw herself off a cliff, but was saved by a ledge.

I’ve heard a hundred variations of her emblematic story. Here, for once, are instances of unadulterated female victimhood, yet the silence of the feminists is deafening. Where two pieties—feminism and multiculturalism—come into conflict, the only way of preserving both is an indecent silence.

I wouldn’t hold my breath with these Liberal feminists.

Posted by Phil on December 11, 2005, 11:28 PM | #

Freddy,

You will notice a pattern when arguing with leftists and liberals. The truth becomes a matter of convenience and is always dispensable in the face hard ideology.

Posted by Simon on December 12, 2005, 12:10 AM | #

So much to respond to.... how many of you are actually from Sydney or even Australia… I only ask because I keep getting referred to English or American websites and noticed that many of you do not have .au in your email addresses, also most of what has been written occurred when most Australians would be asleep.... not that it matters, I accept people from overseas, I embrace their different cultures and backgounds. Whether you’re not Australian or not, I say G’day and welcome to our wonderful multi-cultural, multi-demoninational and diverse society. I hope you can learn about the principles of social justice and equality.
Cheers
Simon

PHIL
Your painful shallowness and immaturity was the reason Fred queried - if you will excuse the pun - whether you like girls.

Like most right wingers, when Phil can’t answer the questions, he uses the old cliché. If you can’t dazzle em with brilliance or baffle em with bull****, just call them names.

DESMOND JONES
Atheism portends moral relativism, which is dangerous because the goal posts for morality are constantly moving.

Moving the goal posts is a good thing, as we learn more through science and communication, and develop as a society, we must adjust our attitudes towards those we share the planet with.

Atheistic societies, have slaughtered millions.

Nobody is asking for an Atheistic society, just a secular one. BTW Christian Germany under Christian Hitler still hold the record for slaughering people.

Equality=tyranny. It severely limits freedom of speech and freedom of association, especially in a multi-cultural setting.

I have no idea how you reach that conclusion other than thinking you want the right to hate people.…. The truth is that IN-EQUALITY=TYRANNY.
In-equality severely limits freedom of speech and freedom of association.
A multi-cultural setting offers far more freedoms and choices for people.

Identifying scapegoats is only necessary in a heterogeneous society.

Totally concur. Why then is their a need for a heterogeneous society?
I personally am an Atheist from an Irish and German background. Born and bred in Panania. I have relatives (through marriage and their offspring) who are Koori, Arabic and Asian (they are also born and bred in Sydney… Earlwood, Mascot, Dee Why, Northmead, Ramsgate, Marrickville, Picnic Point, Kirrawee & Camden) We are just as Australian as anybody else, maybe even more so. My hair is blonder and my eyes bluer than any of you will ever dream about.

Islamic dominance in a society would preclude atheists.

Nobody is asking for an Islamic society, just a secular one.
Why are you so fearful of Islam taking over this country?
Muslims only represent 1.5% of the population… Atheists are 27% & Buddhists 2% represent a bigger proportion of the population.
I support a secular society… the total separation of church and state… freedom of and freedom from ALL forms of religion

Gay marriage will only serve to denigrate the centuries old monogamous man/women marriage tradition the West is built upon.

How does allowing more people to access the ritual of Marriage “denigrate the centuries old monogamous man/women marriage tradition the West is built upon”? Perhaps we should just make marriage a purely religious festival and remove all the state based recognition and state based entitlements it brings.

FRED SCROOBY
I asked if you were a homosexual because your brand of extreme left-wing degenerateness/nihilism

So why then, are so many gay men and lesbians involved with the Liberal, National, One Nation and other right wing parties?
I don’t remember the guys name, but the assassinated leader of the extreme right wing party in Holland was a gay man. Gays and Lesbians can be found in every walk of life and all sides of politics, left, right and centre.

I won’t ask why.

I’ll tell you anyway. You think of gay as a bad thing, I think of gay as a human being who finds members of the same sex attractive. If a gay guy wants to shag me, and I have no doubt a few have wanted to over the years, then I consider it a compliment. The same way a woman, who I don’t find attractive would be or I am with women who don’t find me attractive. Unfortunately for any gay guy who wants me, they will be disappointed, but I wont think less of them because of it. If you think being gay is bad, then that makes it good, as such it becomes a compliment.

I feel it makes more sense to view myself not as right-wing but as normal and you as degenerate.

Another poster says that you are Jewish. If this is true then you should be only too aware of what the right wing bigots can and will do. To the right wing Christians, Jewish is not normal. Hitler told the Vatican (and the world) he knew he was doing gods work by eliminating the Jews. I also wonder why you would direct people to anti-semetic sites?

MARK RICHARDSON
Not much room for political dissent in your world view is there Simon?

Plenty of room for it, it is encouraged, in fact it should be required that all viewpoints be confronted and challenged on a regular basis in order for society to reaffirm our views or enable us to meet a compromise or change them.

EC
Why the need to get his blood pressure up fighting the fascists in Australia?

The battle starts at home. I’m glad you agree there are fascists in Australia,

Why not jettison that tyrannical state for freer nations and regions that would cater to his whims and appreciate his free flowing ideas? Places like the Middle East, Africa, India or China.

Many organisations and individuals do take up this challenge. That doesn’t mean we drop the ball here.
If you don’t like social justice and equality, you can always find somewhere else to live… just because you were born here, doesn’t mean you have to stay.

MARC
I wish we could have a serious debate on these issues without name calling on both sides.

I totally agree, and I realise I should not have called fred “a right wing christian biggoted fascist.”

PHIL
If you read Simon’s comments carefully, you will realise that serious debate with people like him is impossible. His comments are stupidity and immaturity writ large and have little more than a bit of entertainment value. They are utterly devoid of logical content.

What entertains me is your inability and.or refusal to answer perfectly legitimate questions.

Posted by ben tillman on December 12, 2005, 12:15 AM | #

Simon could have handled himself better, but someone’s sexuality really is irrelevant to a discussion on racism.

It is irrelevant in the sense that argumentum ad hominem is always a logical fallacy.  Simon’s assertions cannot be wrong because he is gay (if he is gay).  They must be judged on their own merits.  The point of Fred’s question was not to suss out an illogical basis for rejecting Simon’s assertions (which stand or fall on their own merits) but rather to gather data on the quarters from which utterly irrational liberal tripe is most likely to emanate.  A disporoportionate amount of especially virulent hatred seems to emanate from the gay population, partly because, at least in the U.S., the gay population is scapegoated by cynical “conservative” leaders.

Posted by Simon on December 12, 2005, 12:15 AM | #

Please dont call progressive Australians Liberal.
Have some understanding of Australian politics.
The Australian Liberal Party is extremely right wing and conservative.
If you must use the word Liberal....use a small/lower case “l”.
Or better still use progressive.

Posted by Simon on December 12, 2005, 12:18 AM | #

I think I answered the question Ben.

So why then, are so many gay men and lesbians involved with the Liberal, National, One Nation and other right wing parties?
I don’t remember the guys name, but the assassinated leader of the extreme right wing party in Holland was a gay man. Gays and Lesbians can be found in every walk of life and all sides of politics, left, right and centre.
I’ll tell you anyway. You think of gay as a bad thing, I think of gay as a human being who finds members of the same sex attractive. If a gay guy wants to shag me, and I have no doubt a few have wanted to over the years, then I consider it a compliment. The same way a woman, who I don’t find attractive would be or I am with women who don’t find me attractive. Unfortunately for any gay guy who wants me, they will be disappointed, but I wont think less of them because of it. If you think being gay is bad, then that makes it good, as such it becomes a compliment.

Posted by ben tillman on December 12, 2005, 12:19 AM | #

Giving up your land - even land you acquired by conquest - is dumb, Paul.  The New Masters won’t thank you for it.  And they won’t be liberals like you.

Excellent, GW.

Posted by Simon on December 12, 2005, 12:37 AM | #

Currently it is Middle Eastern Muslims, 25 years ago it was Asians, 50 years ago it was Greeks & Italians, 100 years ago it was the Irish.... maybe we should have learnt from the mistake 200 years ago when the English came here with guns and refused to adopt the national language, culture and religions/spititual beliefs.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 12, 2005, 12:44 AM | #

“someone’s sexuality really is irrelevant to a discussion on racism. [...] I think Fred was just name-calling, personally.  Simon, unfortunately, was too eager to stoop to his level and call Fred a right wing bigoted Christian Fascist.  (It’s been a while since I’ve posted here, but isn’t Fred Jewish?) I wish we could have a serious debate on these issues without name calling on both sides.” (—Marc)

Someone’s sexuality is not “irrelevant to a discussion on racism” or to most other discussions in which one or both parties are motivated by leftism.  This is because homosexuals, both male and female, who are leftist are disproportionately fanatical in their leftism and, more so the male homosexuals, in their support for the forces of degenerateness in society.  I paste the following from my reply to Simon, and I stand by it:

“I asked if you were a homosexual because your brand of extreme left-wing degenerateness/nihilism and the intensity with which you espouse it are seen more often, relatively speaking, in certain groups, homosexuals both male and female being two such.”

Touching on the topic of homosexuality there was also this exchange between Simon and me:  he said, “If you want to think I am [homosexual] I’ll take it as a compliment,” to which I replied, “I won’t ask why,” meaning, in part, I didn’t see why it ought to be taken as a compliment.  I stand by that also.  (Needless to add, it’s not true that I “wanted” to think he was homosexual.)

As for his calling me a right-wing bigoted Christian fascist, I don’t view that necessarily as mere “name-calling,” Marc.  Maybe he thought he had good reason?  Once again, the way I look at it is I’m normal and Simon is degenerate, in the sense that I prefer ordinary normalness to predominate over degenerateness in the society around me, while Simon prefers ordinary degenerateness to predominate over normalness in the society around him.  (That terminology I use doesn’t mean I’m personally normal in every way and he’s personally degenerate in every way, just that I prefer normalness to be ascendant over degenerateness in society and he prefers degenerateness to be ascendant over normalness in society.)

I’m Catholic with some Jewish ancestry at the grandparent level (not the parent level).

“I wish we could have a serious debate on these issues without name calling on both sides.” (—Marc)

Don’t be holier-than-thou, Marc—it’s extremely boring.

Incidentally, I remember you perfectly, Marc, from when you used to post here.  I remember you as a highly intelligent pro-life, anti-excessive-incompatible-immigration homosexual whose ideas I respected.

“The caucasian population in Montreal embraces Middle Eastern immigrants, and while it is not perfect, it can serve as an example for many other cities around the world.” (—Cassie)

Cassie, many whites, myself for example, have no objection whatsoever to reasonable volumes of non-Euro immigration.  What we object to are immigration policies that in effect put whitedom on the conveyor belt inexorably leading to ultimate race-replacement.  Such policies have to be opposed now, while their effects are still reversible, rather than later after their effects will have become extremely difficult to reverse.  I happen to like all the world’s peoples and cultures.  I like my own best and don’t wish it to be replaced by an alien one if you don’t mind.

“Immigration is important to Canada and Australia to expand our cultural diversity and to enrich our society.” (—the oh-so-enlightened,-superior,-and-prejudice-free Cassie who wishes everyone to know how unlike all us rednecks she is and how prejudice-free and therefore superior)

That’s race-replacement propaganda:  double-talking nonsense.  Enrich our society all you want, Cassie, but please don’t race-replace us.

“The world’s eyes are on Cornulla” (—the oh-so-enlightened-and-superior Cassie)

In fact, the world’s eyes—China’s and Japan’s, for example—are on the entire West right now, looking with keenest interest to see if we can throw off the present race-replacement policies people like Cassie have been propagandized into thinking they love so much, and save our respective (sub)races.  China, for one, knows if we fail to do that, she’ll be the world’s sole superpower for a long time to come, perhaps forever.
______
Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!

Posted by Simon on December 12, 2005, 12:53 AM | #

Fred, I’ll state it again shall I?
Perhaps you can respond to this

I asked if you were a homosexual because your brand of extreme left-wing degenerateness/nihilism
So why then, are so many gay men and lesbians involved with the Liberal, National, One Nation and other right wing parties?
I don’t remember the guys name, but the assassinated leader of the extreme right wing party in Holland was a gay man. Gays and Lesbians can be found in every walk of life and all sides of politics, left, right and centre.

I won’t ask why.

I’ll tell you anyway. You think of gay as a bad thing, I think of gay as a human being who finds members of the same sex attractive. If a gay guy wants to shag me, and I have no doubt a few have wanted to over the years, then I consider it a compliment. The same way a woman, who I don’t find attractive would be or I am with women who don’t find me attractive. Unfortunately for any gay guy who wants me, they will be disappointed, but I wont think less of them because of it. If you think being gay is bad, then that makes it good, as such it becomes a compliment.

I feel it makes more sense to view myself not as right-wing but as normal and you as degenerate.

Another poster says that you are Jewish. If this is true then you should be only too aware of what the right wing bigots can and will do. To the right wing Christians, Jewish is not normal. Hitler told the Vatican (and the world) he knew he was doing gods work by eliminating the Jews. I also wonder why you would direct people to anti-semetic sites?

Posted by ben tillman on December 12, 2005, 01:23 AM | #

The youths in Cornulla should have reported the behaviour of the harrassment by Lebanese males to a higher authority.

A higher authority, Cassie?  Doo you mean the state?  The only legitimate function of a government is to enforce the community’s moral laws.  Quite obviously, members of the community may withdraw their delegation of such a function and perform the function themselves.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 12, 2005, 01:29 AM | #

Simon wants my comments on the following.  I’ll respond but only once, since his IQ doesn’t meet the standard for this site.

He asks if the fact that there are right-wing homosexuals disproves my claim that left-wing homosexuals tend proportionately to be more fanatical than heterosexuals in their leftism and in their promotion of degenerateness for society?

The answer is no.

“You think of gay as a bad thing” (—Simon)

Homosexuality is a sexual perversion. 

“you should be only too aware of what the right wing bigots can and will do. To the right wing Christians, Jewish is not normal. Hitler told the Vatican (and the world) he knew he was doing gods work by eliminating the Jews.” (—Simon)

I’m not sure what I’m supposed to respond to here.  It’s gobbledygook.

“I also wonder why you would direct people to anti-semetic sites?”

More gobbledygook.

This is my last time responding to this nitwit.  Serious discussion is possible with serious people (having IQs above a certain threshold, obviously).  When you bandy words with a complete fool you yourself are being a complete fool.
______
Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!

Posted by ben tillman on December 12, 2005, 01:30 AM | #

If it is really true that a country cannot belong to a particular group of people, and that multiculturalism is a great advantage, and that it is racist to suggest otherwise, then the Aborigines should have welcomed the arrival of white settlers as a tremendous event in their history, as a multicultural enrichment of their own society, and any Aborigine who objected ought to have been shouted down by his fellow tribesman as an immoral racist.

And:

But what this goes to show is that a communal identity is important for individuals. Western liberals are busy destroying such identities amongst both immigrants and the host population. They harm both groups - but at least the immigrants have a choice of returning to a homeland (perhaps you yourself

are in this situation, having returned to live in Lebanon).

Very incisive, Mark.

Posted by Svigor on December 12, 2005, 01:31 AM | #

I haven’t read the whole lot of replies yet, but one thing that stands out is the idea that a subset of a population “doesn’t represent” the entire population.

How convenient, to be able to disown a minority within one’s own group whenever it suits one’s purposes.

The trouble is that the subset would not be present if the group it belongs to wasn’t present.  The trouble is that problematic subsets DO NOT OCCUR IN THE SAME PROPORTIONS IN ALL GROUPS.

Duh.

Posted by ben tillman on December 12, 2005, 01:34 AM | #

You need only go to the nearest small town to find the Australian version of a hick: uneducated, racist and ignorant.

We recently read Geoff Beck’s review of Eellul’s Propaganda, in which Ellul observed that, when it comes to politics, it is the “educated” who are the most ignorant.

Posted by Svigor on December 12, 2005, 01:59 AM | #

So much to respond to.... how many of you are actually from Sydney or even Australia… I only ask because I keep getting referred to English or American websites and noticed that many of you do not have .au in your email addresses, also most of what has been written occurred when most Australians would be asleep....

But Sy, baby, we’re all Aussies, didn’t you know?

not that it matters, I accept people from overseas, I embrace their different cultures and backgounds. Whether you’re not Australian or not, I say G’day and welcome to our wonderful multi-cultural, multi-demoninational and diverse society. I hope you can learn about the principles of social justice and equality.

Ah, I see you were just proffering the argument in bad faith.  That figures.  You and yours (psychotic degenerates) are why I insist on the continued existence of multicultural territories for whites.  I don’t wantyou or yours in a nation meant for my people.  The difference between us (okay, one of many) is that you don’t want self-determination for me and mine, you want totalitarian leftism for all.

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 02:12 AM | #

I don’t remember the guys name, but the assassinated leader of the extreme right wing party in Holland was a gay man. Gays and Lesbians can be found in every walk of life and all sides of politics, left, right and centre.

Simon, with all respect, you don’t know what you are talking about.  Pim Fortuyn was not an extreme right winger.  He was a flamboyantly homosexual libertarian who wanted to curtail Islamic immigration for the purpose of preserving Dutch culture., which includes tolerance of gays.  He believed that Islam was incompatible with the very secular society you espouse, that it was incompatible with equal opportunity for women and that it was incompatible with gay rights.  He was brutally murdered (shot in the head) by a radical leftist who believed the mainstream media’s lie that, because he wanted to curtail immigration, Fortuyn was the reincarnation of Hitler. 

You are right that gay people can be found all over the political spectrum.  I’m gay, I’m a westerner and I love my culture.  I do not want to see it diluted with millions of unassimilable third world immigrants.  Even now, I walk down the streets here in Baltimore and there are people dressing in costumes that I don’t recognize, chattering away in languages I don’t understand.  You might find such a scene invigorating, but I feel like a stranger in my own country and I resent it.  Now you can call me a “racist” if you like, I really don’t care (though I will say that my desire to live among my own people is at least as natural and innate as is my sexuality, and you’re going to have as much luck turning me into a multiculturalist like yourself as a Christian would have turning me straight).  But I don’t think that I or people who feel as I do should keep their mouths shut about what is happening to their countries just because speaking up causes multiculturalists to have a hissy fit. 

Also, I enjoy the fact that I live in a society that is relatively tolerant of homosexuality.  Virulent homophobia can be found anywhere, but it is waaaaay more common in third world and non-western societies.  Even if we put aside my love of western culture, shy should I support bringing people who most likely hate me into my country?  That’s just stupid.

Posted by Rodrigo on December 12, 2005, 02:20 AM | #

mmm sum of the ppl here like to talk bout Muslims wen its go nuffin to wit can if u want but in the end its bout a race....im from westen sydney near parra n i see heaps of races like islanders maoris wogs latinos and aussie ect.. here we have fights not as big but still fights....well i have sum leb firends but i mostly hang around islanders n maoris the only lebs that coz problems is the ones that were rise here in aus n stop asking “oh but how do u noe that?” coz im from tha west were most lebs r n u see more shit on the streets then from ur home...this has happen coz of many factors....
1. race: many noe there aus-lebs but coz we call em wogs they will say there wogs
2. familys: as many in the west of sydney they have problems like mine too..so they get outa tha house n do other stuff eg start shit wit ppl for fun, anger or wateva
3. the shire: i go to the shire every week coz my gurl lives there. now as nice as sum can be sum look at u like as if ur gona start sumthing as i look latin they think imma fight sum for no reson..no every non-white person is bad
4. lebs coz alot shit..y? coz they want to i to hate the wanabes “gangstas leb” who start stuff with ppl who did nuffin or jus walkin down the street. as i once was in a gang but we didnt roll any inocet ppl we only had fights with other gangs n yes i noe it was stupid but thats life u live n learn

now the so called aussies that coz the riots now have to be ready for more (n im not saying that as a threat only from wat i noe from street gang life) coz wen u hit inocent ppl from a different race...they will hit back even hard n worst....

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 02:24 AM | #

Currently it is Middle Eastern Muslims, 25 years ago it was Asians, 50 years ago it was Greeks & Italians, 100 years ago it was the Irish.... maybe we should have learnt from the mistake 200 years ago when the English came here with guns and refused to adopt the national language, culture and religions/spititual beliefs.

There are times when it is sensible to compare current immigration trends with past immigration trends and times when it is not.  Were the Greeks and Italians 50 years ago riding a rising wave of religious fundamentalism?  Did the Irish and Asians have among them a vocal minority who dreamed of uniting the world under their rule?  Just because immigration has worked in the past doesn’t mean it will work in the future, especially, as in the case here in America, when the very societal norms that forced the long and painful (but necessary) process of assimilation have been broken down and replaced with a form of multiculturalism that I have difficulty seeing as leading to any sort of a real national identity.

Posted by Lurker on December 12, 2005, 02:26 AM | #

Cassie you wrote:

The caucasian population in Montreal embraces Middle Eastern immigrants, and while it is not perfect, it can serve as an example for many other cities around the world.

Immigration is important to Canada and Australia to expand our cultural diversity and to enrich our society.

First of all: The caucasian population in Montreal embraces Middle Eastern immigrants Does it? What actual evidence do you have for that? The local media gushing over small select groups? Right now we can see the fog of untruth with regard to Sydney. You live in Montreal & you’re caucasian? How many white Canadian guys have Muslim girlfriends? How many of your real friends are muslims, not just people you nod to at work, your real pour-your-heart-out-to go-for-drink-with bestest girlfriends? I could go on like that…

Next: while not perfect. Not perfect, not perfect?! It had better be better than perfect, it should damn well be better than perfect, it should be better than what went before. It cant be as good as or worse than the white dominated past. It, Montreal, must be more tolerant, more trusting, less violent, less crime, less divisive, less identity politics, less inter-racial violence. No honour killings or muslims raping white girls. And is it? Is it really? If it isnt what on earth is the point?

Finally: Immigration is important to Canada and Australia to expand our cultural diversity and to enrich our society. How much immigration would acheive these ends? Right now I believe @ 1 in 45 people in Australia are muslims, is that enriching enough yet? I have to presume not as you have already affirmed a belief in immigration ie more of it. So could say...1 in 40 be enough? How about 1 in 30, do I hear any advance on 1 in 25 ladies and gentlemen? Just say when Cassie.

Just remember to shout out loud and clear when you feel we’ve hit that magic enriching ratio. Of course there is a catch. You cant shout out when you Cassie, feel that there are maybe enough muslims in your town you might think it.

And thats when it hits you…

You were about to shout out in a clear, confidant reasoned liberal manner “OK, thats enough, obviously we are all good, rational, non-racist people but even we liberals can see thats enough muslim immigration, this country has the ideal racial mix (or whatever criteria)” You look round and realise that you can’t say anything, can’t do anything because you’re on your own, its not “we liberals” its just “you”, no-one is standing with you, there is silence and worse than silence you realise that there is someone more vocal and more liberal right standing behind you ready to shout you down as a vile racist. So of course you dont say anything.

This hasnt happened to you yet, remember when that moment comes, that it hits you just maybe there are one (or even as many as two perhaps) too many muslims in the West for your personal comfort, you might reflect on this.

Posted by Svigor on December 12, 2005, 02:36 AM | #

You are right that gay people can be found all over the political spectrum.  I’m gay, I’m a westerner and I love my culture.  I do not want to see it diluted with millions of unassimilable third world immigrants.

For the record this “nazi” thinks that homosexuality is totally irrelevant to WNism (not that you necessarily care Marc), though homosexualism is another matter.  In other words, homosexuals are welcome as far as I’m concerned.

Posted by Rodrigo on December 12, 2005, 02:39 AM | #

homosexuals??? wen did fags become a part of the riots??

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 02:40 AM | #

“I wish we could have a serious debate on these issues without name calling on both sides.” (—Marc)

Don’t be holier-than-thou, Marc—it’s extremely boring (-Fred)

I’m not trying to be holier than thou.  I’m trying to think of what is in the best long-term interests of our movement to revitalize the West. 

I believe that multiculturalism is, in the long-term, an unworkable intellectual fad.  I suspect you feel the same way.  It doesn’t take any great intelligence to see this, in my opinion, just common sense and a willingness to see.  I don’t know Simon, but my sense of him is that he is probably a young man with higher-than-average intelligence who wants to do the right thing. In short, I think he’s exactly the type of person we need to reach out to.  Now I doubt he’ll ever come around fully to our way of thinking since he boasts about having interracial family members.  But I hold out hope that if we simply tell him what we are about in a respectful way, he might leave the conversation respectuflly disagreeing, instead of believing us to be Nazis bent on cloning Hitler.  And respectful disagreement on these issues would be a huge improvement over the current situation, where prominent politicians who speak out against massive third world immigration get killed by brainwashed leftists (see my post above).  We have a responsibility to promote it, regardless of how our efforts are met.

Posted by Svigor on December 12, 2005, 02:42 AM | #

Great post Lurker, first-rate point about how liberals are so lacking in self-examination that they fail to see that there’s no stopping “diversity,” right up until (and past) the point it throttles them.

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 02:44 AM | #

homosexuals??? wen did fags become a part of the riots??

Rodrigo, that’s the first thing you’ve said on this comments box that is remotely intelligible (your last post gave me a migraine trying to translate it from whatever dialect you speak into English).  Glad to know I’ve brought out your articulate side. 

Posted by Svigor on December 12, 2005, 02:45 AM | #

Diversity: a black liberal, a brown liberal, a yellow liberal, a red liberal, a homosexual liberal, a female liberal…

Posted by Lurker on December 12, 2005, 02:46 AM | #

Thanks Svi.

Posted by Rodrigo on December 12, 2005, 02:49 AM | #

Marc, sorry if couldn’t understant what i was saying but im no good with writing, and on computers even worst

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 02:52 AM | #

For the record this “nazi” thinks that homosexuality is totally irrelevant to WNism (not that you necessarily care Marc), though homosexualism is another matter.  In other words, homosexuals are welcome as far as I’m concerned.

Actually Svigor, I appreciate the sentiment.

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 02:56 AM | #

Rodrigo.

It’s cool.  Just out of curiosity is English not your first language?  Not trying to be a dick, just saying that if that’s the case you might want to say as much in your posts.  People would probably cut you a lot more slack and show more patience in trying to decipher what you have to say.

Posted by Rodrigo on December 12, 2005, 03:12 AM | #

yes it isn’t

Posted by AD on December 12, 2005, 03:27 AM | #

Posted by Lurker on December 12, 2005, 03:37 AM | #

But why oh why are they flying those dreadful colonialist flags? Arent all Aussies supposed to favour the adoption of some dogs breakfast multi-culti progressive new flag of which various designs have been touted around for years.

Ha ha!

Posted by JB on December 12, 2005, 04:15 AM | #

JJRAY:
(I see the the M-word gets a mention at last)

what kind of pious muslims go to the beach to sexually harass white girs and verbally harass life guards ? It’s not religion but race/ethnicity. second generation african youths in Europe behave in a similar manner

Posted by JB on December 12, 2005, 04:27 AM | #

Jihan:
“I was born in Australia but have lived most of my life in Lebanon, when I came back here to study I couldn’t believe how these so called ‘wogs’ behave. Personally, I think it’s embarrassing. Their attitude would never be tolerated in Lebanon. In fact, they would be marginalised in the country.”

“I remember on Anzac day I watched on TV how a group of “middle eastern” guys were cursing at the police. I couldn’t believe that the police couldn’t do anything about it!!! if that happened in Lebanon they would’ve been in deeeeeeep trouble. I think what they need here is stricter laws.”

They would be severely punished and that’s what is lacking in white countries. They act like that because they’re surrounded by weak white males and politicians who are afraid of being called racists. Same thing for France, Sweden, Belgium, etc. They sense weakness. They’re like immature high school bullies on a nation-wide scale.

And you’re right about religion, it’s race.

Posted by Melba Peachtoast on December 12, 2005, 04:28 AM | #

GOODNESS GRACIOUS! One’s internet connection is down for only ONE DAY and the most amazing things happen! Like this thread! I’m a bit late to the party I see, but those who know me will know which side I would have been on, had I been around for the excitement. Tie me kangaroo down!

Posted by JB on December 12, 2005, 04:33 AM | #

Simon:
We live in a secular society...not a christian one… freedom of and freedom from ALL forms of religion should be at the forefront of our concerns.

Nobody is asking for an Atheistic society, just a secular one. BTW Christian Germany under Christian Hitler still hold the record for slaughering people.

you mean The Six Million record ? I though the atheist soviet regime killed something like 20 millions. But 1 jew counts as 4 gentiles I guess

Why are antis obsessed with christianity ? I’m a racist white nationalist and I’m not at all a christian.

Simon:
[14 characteristics of fascism]+Does any of this sound familiar?

a fascist Australia would have at least pro-white racist immigration and citizenship policies

speaking of 14, here are David Lane’s 14 words:

We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.

is the australian government pursuing this goal ? No. It’s time to pull your head out of your soft and tolerant liberal @ss Simon

Posted by JB on December 12, 2005, 04:49 AM | #

Cassie:
“The caucasian population in Montreal embraces Middle Eastern immigrants, and while it is not perfect, it can serve as an example for many other cities around the world.”

but they have no choice but to “embrace them” because, duh, it’s illegal to discriminate against non-whites. Think about that for a minute. Would the situation be the same if it weren’t for the government’s policy of tolerance at gunpoint and the anti-white propaganda in public schools ?

by the way the caucasian population of Montreal is the worst indolent bunch of effeminate wiggers I’ve ever seen. It’s bad everywhere around MTL but it’s worst on the island

Cassie:
Immigration is important to Canada and Australia to expand our cultural diversity and to enrich our society.

this planet is diverse enough there’s no need to diversify nations - unless of course we’re talking about white nations who are in a dire need of such cultural enrichment :

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/06/child_sacrifice.php

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=7138

Posted by JB on December 12, 2005, 04:51 AM | #

saw that one on StormFront:

(it seems like arab rapists are always gang-rapists)

Gang rapist blames culture

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17513853-29277,00.html

A CONVICTED gang rapist has told a Sydney court he sexually assaulted a 14-year-old girl because he thought she was promiscuous and “had no right to say no”.
The 27-year-old, identified only as MSK, said voices had commanded him to rape the girl, but also blamed cultural differences for the attack.

MSK, convicted of raping two girls aged 13 and 14, faced sentencing submissions today before NSW Supreme Court Justice Peter Hidden.

He is already serving a 22-year jail term for leading his three younger brothers in the gang rape of two more girls, aged 16 and 17.

All four attacks took place at the brothers’ Ashfield home, in Sydney’s inner-west, in June and July 2002.

The court was told the first rape, that of a 14-year-old girl known as T, took place four days after MSK arrived from Pakistan.

Posted by Lurker on December 12, 2005, 04:52 AM | #

Heres a snippet from ABC:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200512/s1529041.htm

This Iemma guy really is a disgrace, were one of an uncharitable disposition one might be tempted to wonder who exactly he thinks he represents.

Cassie are you out there btw?

Posted by Andrew Pallis on December 12, 2005, 05:33 AM | #

Astonishing that you focus on and utterly condemn the violence by australians of lebanese descent but say nothing and indeed justify the violence and attacks by australian white youths

Posted by ben tillman on December 12, 2005, 05:50 AM | #

Cassie:

The caucasian population in Montreal embraces Middle Eastern immigrants, and while it is not perfect, it can serve as an example for many other cities around the world.

JB:

...but they have no choice but to “embrace them” because, duh, it’s illegal to discriminate against non-whites.

Of course, it is as if rape were legalized.  Cassie embraces her rapist, one imagines, and can serve as an example for many other women around the world.  Indeed, the essence of Cassie’s screed is, if rape is inevitable, lie back and enjoy it.  But Cassie pathologizes the victim’s resistance and defends the aggressor.

Posted by ben tillman on December 12, 2005, 05:52 AM | #

Astonishing that you focus on and utterly condemn the violence by australians of lebanese descent but say nothing and indeed justify the violence and attacks by australian white youths

It’s elementary that violence offered in self-defense is legitimate.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 12, 2005, 06:56 AM | #

“It’s elementary that violence offered in self-defense is legitimate.” (—Ben Tillman, replying to Andrew Pallis)

You can’t see that, Andrew Pallis?  These people were attacked repeatedly.  A pregnant woman on a stairway was harrassed for “taking up too much room.” Little girls at the beach getting swimming lessons had to be warned to keep their tops on over their swimsuit tops, otherwise the Arabs would harrass them for being “tarts.” LITTLE GIRLS! White Aussies had had enough and were defending themselves.  It was not they who started it.  The others started it.  You disregard that?  What in hell’s wrong with you?  You call yourself a man?  You call yourself normal?  I call you a piece of nothingness.  I call you a walking piece of nihilism.
______
-- “All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.”—Enoch Powell
-- Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!
-- Balkanization is better than Brazilianization!
-- The 1965 Immigration-Holocaust Act:  the gift that keeps on giving!
-- What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the usual suspects!

Posted by Desmond Jones on December 12, 2005, 06:57 AM | #

Simon,

What if moving the goal posts meant it was alright to have sex with your mother, or your sister, father or little brother? Is that still a good thing? NAMBLA, as a group, justify moving the goal posts. Is man/boy love acceptable simply because it feel’s good; “I love him and he loves me; or It shouldn’t be a crime to make love”, says eleven year-old Bryan. Moving the goal posts to accommodate human rights will ultimately lead to societal collapse because there is no objective morality.

Hitler a Christian, that’s tough to document. However, even if we accept that notion Stalin and Mao were by far the greater purveyors of death. Again, the danger of atheistic moral relativism allows monsters to commit genocide in order to allegedly save society by wealth re-distribution. Killing a few is justified by the greater good.

Equality=tyranny. What if you were compelled to have sex with these gay men who fancied you? What if refusing them sex was deemed discriminatory? After all you obliged women with sex. If you refuse gays sex, you must be homophobic. You must hate gays. Or do you want the freedom to associate with who you wish for any reason at all?

Heterogeneity- Your response is unclear. The point is that the desire for a homogeneous society is morally valid. If you want to be multicultural then why can’t we be uni-cultural?

If Islam grew to the point of dominance thru massive immigration there would not be the secular society you desire.

Man/women marriage existed long before state based entitlements. Absolutely, remove them. However, what if people started marrying Volkswagens or dogs or trees? Do you think marrying trees, (after all I should be free and equal to decide) would further enhance the reputation of marriage as the foundation of the family and thus society? Where is the line drawn?

Stat after stat after stat shows the impact upon society of broken marriages and /or illegitimacy.

Posted by Cassie on December 12, 2005, 07:03 AM | #

I do apologize for being so liberal on this site. It is quite obvious that most here subscribe to a very narrow political spectrum. It is certainly leaning towards neo-nazism and social Darwinism. And for those of you who have stooped so low as to name-call, do me a favour and call me a lesbian just to get it out of the way. Try to learn how to participate in an academic discussion without calling people gay. That’s an entirely different issue that I would love to bring up some other time but it is quite irrelevant to the events in Australia.

I am fortunate enough to live in a country where people who frequent this site are in the minority. The extreme minority. It is curious that in a country that has one of the most highly educated populations on the planet, there would be so many liberals? Why are Canadians so left-wing? Why do we invite people from other cultures to come, take jobs that would otherwise go to caucasians, access our social safety net and free healthcare and become citizens? Because we all are immigrants ourselves. We all share a common story of adaptation to new cultures. When my grandfather arrived here dirt poor from the Ukraine he was discriminated against for being Slavic. Ukrainians were put in internment camps during the First World War and were barred from certain jobs. Where does one draw the line at racism? When will people wake up and realize that cultural barriers are simply fabrications of the human mind? I go to a university that is over 80% non-white. I am the minority in a sea of buddhist, muslim, hindu and chinese-christian students. There are over 60 countries represented in my biology class alone.

So no I am not alone. I have an entire generation of centre and left-minded people surrounding me. We are all in agreement: multi-culturalism is necessary and important for the creation of our nation. It is not only economically profitable but socially viable, and it will continue to be so for years to come. The people who dispute this are at the centre of racial tension and are therefore causing the problems they so eagerly condemn. Take a step back and re-evaluate your position. Attempt to see two sides of the issue.

So I say to all of you, who are afraid of the unknown, go make some new friends. Try to understand a culture that is different from yours. In my opinion many of you are terrified of change. The riots in Sydney were the largest race riots since two Chinese workers were killed in 1860 during the height of the Aussie goldrush. Are we going backwards?

And no Lurker, I don’t feel superior to you. I respect the fact that you have an opinion, and I won’t stoop to labelling you. However I have deep sympathy for people who fail to find hapiness in life. It is clear to me that you most likely have seen little of the world. I suggest a trip to the region you are would be least likely to set foot in. Try something safe but educational like [removed] or Turkey. You may find yourself realising that we are all the same, whether you like or not. Carbon-based biological beings that are recycled infinitely. It is ultimately up to you whether you intend to live your life with a positive outlook. Personally I like smiling at people of any background when I walk down the street.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 12, 2005, 07:37 AM | #

“And for those of you who have stooped so low as to name-call, do me a favour and call me a lesbian just to get it out of the way. Try to learn how to participate in an academic discussion without calling people gay.” (—Cassie)

That’s addressed to me, so I’ll answer:  I didn’t call anyone homosexual.  I asked Simon if he was a homosexual.  And now I’ll ask you, Cassie, since you hint you might be one:  are you?  Notice I’m not calling you one.

“Ukrainians were put in internment camps during the First World War and were barred from certain jobs.” (—Cassie)

That sounds like one hundred percent bullshit.  You’ll have to back that up, Cassie.

As for the rest of Cassie’s ass-wipe, reading it one realises the best thing Canada could do would be to send her and her defective genes packing back to where her grandfather came from and do it quick before they read this swill she just posted over in the Ukraine and refuse to let her in.
______
Moratorium-plus-Repatriation, especially for gravely-defective, completely unsalvagable Ukrainians!

Posted by seelow heights on December 12, 2005, 08:00 AM | #

As a US expat living in Costa Rica ,and married to a mestiza, I applaud the resistance of the Australian youth to their dispossession.
The logic of the multicult regime that reigns throughout the West deems everything Euro as inferior and everything alien as privileged.It takes something beyond the capacity of the typical “intellectual” or middle-class drone to reject the incessant anti-white brainwashing and act in defense of your people. In this context I’m willing to overlook cases of drunken loutishness.

Posted by scopatevi on December 12, 2005, 03:11 PM | #

ma andate AFFANCULO
teste di cazzo razzisti autraliani di merda che scopate con i canguri, minchioni

io vi piscio in culo rotti in culo bastardi teste di cazzo, figli di froci irlandesi e culattoni inglesi fate schifo al cazzo

l’ islam vi sotterrera’ coglioni ubriachi da mattina a sera puzzate di birra
ma sapete quanti australiani ho preso a calci in culo coglioni mi scopo le vostre donne che sboccano di sborra mentre lo prendono in culo dai vostri padri

neanche i canguri vi s’inculano sfigati che vivete nel culo del mondo

Posted by Umberto on December 12, 2005, 07:19 PM | #

Nazism is dead. Poor idiots. Go out, fuck a little bit more...the world is better with diversity rather than omogeneity. I cannot believe that in Australia such those people could exist.

Posted by Paul Connor on December 12, 2005, 07:25 PM | #

All australians are bastards. Does it exist an australian race?

Posted by Marc on December 12, 2005, 07:51 PM | #

So I say to all of you, who are afraid of the unknown, go make some new friends. Try to understand a culture that is different from yours. In my opinion many of you are terrified of change. The riots in Sydney were the largest race riots since two Chinese workers were killed in 1860 during the height of the Aussie goldrush. Are we going backwards?

And no Lurker, I don’t feel superior to you. I respect the fact that you have an opinion, and I won’t stoop to labelling you.

Cassie, you really need to take a deep breath and a long, hard look at yourself.  Within the space of one and a half paragraphs you go from basically calling the people on this site mindless xenophobes to proudly asserting that you won’t stoop to labelling us. 

Now, if you truly don’t feel that you are better than us, and respect our opinions, you should make an effort to debate us in good faith which means answering our questions directly.  If not, then perhaps you should leave because you are not really contributing anything.  Anyway, here are some questions to which I eagerly await your reply: 

Do these cultures that you want us to embrace, accept, and try to understand include cultures that genitally mutilate women and stone homosexuals and adulterers?  If so, then isn’t that “moving backwards”?  If not, then why is it ok for you to draw the line and say “No, we will not have these people in my country...” but anyone else who does the same exact thing for any reason “tends towards neo-nazism”. 

I can point to many, many instances of ethnostates standing the test of time, persisting despite wars, economic depressions, natural disasters, tyranny, etc… Can you point to one example of a multicultural, multiracial nation surviving for, say, eight hundred years?  I am not speaking here about countries with, say, one minority group making up around ten percent of the population.  I am talking about countries where there is no real majority.  I ask this because I can’t think of any, and I find your assertion that multiculturalism is necessary to build your nation just historically naive.  Look at the Balkans and other fringe areas of the former Soviet Union.  Look at Rwanda.  Look at Lebanon and Cyprus.  Multiculturalism is a luxury permitted by prosperous times or else imposed by an authoritarian regime, but once the circumstances that permit it end (which they inevitably do) we are left with human nature, instilled in us through billions of years of evolution, which will always demand a certain tribal allegiance.  At least, that’s how I see it. 

Do racial and ethnic groups have an inherent right to self-preservation?  If not, then why do we venerate the victims of the Holocaust more so than any other civilian victims of World War II?  If so, then why would you deny white people this right through government-enforced diversity which, in the long run, would lead to the disappearance of white Europeans as a specific racial/ethnic group? 

Again, I look forward to your reply.

Posted by elia on December 12, 2005, 07:57 PM | #

Fottuti idioti del cazzo, vergognatevi.

Posted by Mark Richardson on December 12, 2005, 08:28 PM | #

Cassie is offering us that strange left-wing undergrad mentality which strips categories of their real content. I heard someone justify drug traffickers the other day because all they were doing was “transporting white powder from country to country”. For Cassie, there are no useful distinctions between humans to be preserved because it is adequate to describe humans as “Carbon-based biological beings that are recycled infinitely.”

I don’t see how Cassie can develop a useful politics while she still thinks about things in this way.

Posted by Nico on December 12, 2005, 08:29 PM | #

Hey mates i cannot really understand whats happened there form so far away, but i know aussie ppl, they seem to have exagerated a bit, but i believe they had their rigjht reasons to do that.
I just hope sydney is not gonna be an unsafety place, but im sure it won’t.
Let me answer to some italian faggots who posted here.
Non so da quale buco di culo veniate, certo é ke non avete capito un cazzo e ke dimostrate la vostra ignoranza e il fatto di essere delle scorie umane.
Per fortuna(vostra) gli amici australiani non vi capiscono!!
certo, voi non sapete manco scrivere in italiano, parlate come animali, figuriamoci in un’altra lingua!!
Be, io ho vissuto in australia e sono orgoglioso di essere stato in un paese che é il piú bello del mondo senza nessun dubbio, nella cittá piú incredibile che esista, sydney, e reputo gli australiani la miglior gente possibile.
L’italia le bacia il culo all’australia, in tutto....no way man, non c’é paragone, tu povero sottosviluppato verrai da qualch paesino arretrato del sud, o anche nord italia, pieno di merda, spazzature per strada, gent ignorante, sei frustrato e caliente perché non ti senti realizzato o magari non te la da manco un cane, e scrivi puttanate qua.
ma va¡ a scoparti il tuo gatto!!
dunque, bambocci, io ho vissuto in australia e italia, e posso dirvio che l’italia é terzo mondo rispetto alla terra down under.
in tutto, nei servizi, nelle cittá, nell’ambiente, nella gente, nel clima....in tutto é meglio l’australia.
e gli australiani hanno molti piú soldi,,,,quindi anche se son piú lontani da certi posti, possono andarci!!
ma poi, piú lontani da dove???
dalll’italia??? ma ti ricordo handiccapato mentale che son gli italiani a essere andati in australia con valigie di cartone, mica il contrario!!! gli australiani manco lo penserebbero di venire in un paese di merda come é l’italia, chi glielo farebbe fare??? non cé lavoro, non si sta bene, la gente é arretrata é stupida, perché cazzo dovrebbero andare in italia?????
riguardati la storia, bamboccio, e vedrai che sono gli altri che vanno in australia, non il contrario.
e glia italiani son sempre stati la miseria umana per eccellenza, andati a fare fame dappertutto,,,,e ora rompono i coglioni!!!ma va al diavolo, scemo.
gli italiani erano merda negli usa, ghettizzati, delinquenti e maltrattati.
lo stesso in argentina e brasile, sempre disprezzati…
peggio che mai in australia, a sydney cé un quartiere con immigrati italiani, brook vale, kiamato sydney’s mafia.
ora gli aussies non se l’hanno presa con gli italiani solo perché sono nascosti, non sono piú un gruppo in australia, hanno capito che dovevano adattarsi, non parlare italiano, non rompere i coglioni e starsene buoni, come gli australiani.
altrimenti al posto dei lebs ci sarebbero i pizzas.....o i cocoliche, tanos de mierda, come li kiamano in argentina.
in tutta europa, é una vergogna dire di essere italiano, ti ridono in faccia ovunque.
i piu disprezzati, miserabili e leccaculo d’europa!!!
quelli da evitare come la peste!!!
questo grazie a stupidi come voi, che dicono cazzate, che non sanno pensare, che non ragionano come la maggior parte degli italiani.
che corrono dietro al primo asino che passa.
ma tu l’hai vista roma?? e hai visto sydney???
non ce paragone, scarafaggio,sydney é in un altro mondo rispetto a roma.....come dire new york e il tuo paese!!!
a sydney ci sono mille spiagge bellissime, grattacieli fenomenali, parchi moderni, progresso dappertutto, treni che ti sfrecciano in testa come ufo!!! mai visti in altre parti.
a roma??? merda di cavallo vicino al colosseo (un veccho rudere), rovine cadenti, due sole linee di metró, disorganizzazione totale, clima che sará bello rispetto a milano-merda, ma che rispetto a sydney é una caca, e poi i romani, gente arettrata, sottosviluppata. rimasta all’epoca di giulio cesare e mafiosa, e che manco sa parlare, poveri mongoloidi (senza offesa per i mongoloidi che sono molto meglio di loro).
e poi l’ambiente che cé attorno all’australia é il migliore del pianeta!! perché un australiano dovrebbe andare in europa, continente antiquato e arretrato, piano di guerre e lotte (gli islamici lo stanno facendo a pezzi...) pikkoli stati insignificanti....per un aussie, é l’europa il culo del mondo, e l’italia manco esiste!!!
pensa che l’italia é grande l metá del new south wales!!!
l’america é alla stessa distanza piú o meno da europa e australia, anzi quella del sud é molto piú vicina ll’australia.
e poi ci sono gli stati piú belli dell’asia a un passo, le spiagge della thailandia (dove i porci italiani vanno a fare i pedofili) o il giappone a sole otto ore.
il culo del mondo é l’europa!!!
e per le tue teorie assurde, be, quando gli islamici ti avranno messo una bella bomba in casa, canterai meno.....
per roma, é questione di tempo, fra poco quello di madrid e londra tokkerá a lei, se stai a roma preparati a scappare.
e fra una cinquantina d’anni non so che resterá dell’europa...e questo anke per colpa dei minorati come voi.
non so cosa ha portato i sydneysiders a reagire cosí, ma io prima di tutto non giudico senza sapere, ricordati che si fa cosí.
poi, conosco bne i sydneysiders e so ke ci deve essere una causa se la gente piú tranquilla del mondo ha fatto cosí...mika sono milanesi qualsiasi, che agiscono senza usare il cervello.
discriminare va male, me non sappiamo cosa c’é stato alla base.
in ogni caso, quando una bomba devastará l’italia, vedremo se sarai tanto sicuro di te.
per ora, qualsiasi cosa possa dire, non hai ragione, sei un idiota, bo.
e tieni fede al tuo nome, scemo, fatti scopare.
da un asino.
ciao bambino

Posted by Desmond Jones on December 12, 2005, 08:56 PM | #

In 1914, 80,000 Ukrainians registered as “enemy aliens” and 8,579 “enemy aliens” confined in internment camps in Canada. Prior to WWI over 170,000 Ukrainians had settled in Canada. That left a population of over 90,000 available to fight for their adopted country. Approximately, 2,000 Ukrainians served in Europe. Philip Konoval was awarded the Victoria Cross.

How do Ukrainians measure up when it came to “equality of sacrifice”. Not very well. The CEF, altold, totalled 650,000. 50,000 were French Quebecers. Not quite 600,000 were Anglos. The Anglo population of Canada in 1914, was ~6 million. The Anglo enlistment percentage was over 10%. The Ukrainian enlistment as a percentage of the population available to serve was just over 2%.

Cassie, and those like her, as usual, only tell one part of the story. War eforts in Canada, whether you believe those wars justified or not, were overwhelmingly Anglo-Celtic efforts. WWII was no better.

Cdn historian Jack Granatstein:

“The Second World War representation of other ethnicities in the CF was better than in the Great War, but still below standard. Every ethnic group has carefully massaged data to show that it sent the highest percentage etc, etc; this is all nonsense, in my view, because it includes conscripts and fails to differentiate between combat arms and services...”

Ukrainain descended Paul Yuzyk, a professional ethnic, was name the father of multiculturalism. He too, sat out WWII as a conscript; a Zombie. He complained of ill treatment during the thirties; discriminated against by Anglos in his search for work. No one mentions that most people in western Canada couldn’t find work during the Great Depression. It also is never mentioned by the Cassie’s of this world, that being in Canada, during the purges of the Holodomor, saved the ass of many more Ukies than were ever interned.

Ukrainians have done well in Canada; Sawchuk, Bower, and Gretzky, and instead of complaining about internment should be asking why their record of service for their adopted country is so shameful.

Posted by jak on December 12, 2005, 09:05 PM | #

Do YOU think you have problems?
We DO have… believe me

Posted by jak on December 12, 2005, 09:11 PM | #

(Nico… you mean...)

Posted by Phil on December 12, 2005, 09:14 PM | #

“Carbon-based biological beings that are recycled infinitely.”

Well so are Rats, Chimpanzees, Gorillas, Orangutans, Leopards, Dogs, Wolves.............almost all mammals on the face of the Earth.

What does that prove?

Anyway, trying to argue with such buffoonery is a waste of time and energy.

Posted by Phil on December 12, 2005, 09:18 PM | #

Cassie,

I have heard better arguments about Politics from 12 year olds.

How old are you? 11??

Posted by Claire on December 13, 2005, 12:05 AM | #

Hey Lurker. Sorry I haven’t been replying. I have exams this week and typically don’t sit in front of my computer longer than an hour at a time. So here are some answers:
First of all linking you to a website to “prove” a point is a bit ridiculous because websites are rarely void of bias and opinion. However, as you wish:
http://www.infoukes.com/history/internment/

I have done some research on this topic and Ukrainians were interned for years. Some remained interned after the war was over in order to provide a free labour source for building early infrastructure in Canada. I’m proud to be Ukrainian, as I am to be Irish. What is your background?
and for that matter where do you live?

***Do these cultures that you want us to embrace, accept, and try to understand include cultures that genitally mutilate women and stone homosexuals and adulterers?  If so, then isn’t that “moving backwards”?  If not, then why is it ok for you to draw the line and say “No, we will not have these people in my country...” but anyone else who does the same exact thing for any reason “tends towards neo-nazism”.  ***

You seem to have missed a fundamental part of my argument. Yes I concur that there are cultures with brutal customs for which I have no respect. You fail to recognize, however, that an often comes to a country to ESCAPE these cultural evils. I am talking about integrated and fully immersed immigrants which adopt the values of the country they have chosen. I am merely pointing out that the policy of certain governments has not been helpful in allowing immigrant cultures to assimilate. Others are doing a better job. In many countries it is working. Multi-culturalism is working. I exalt in that, as I sit here in my university library with two Taiwanese students on my left and a Nepalese masters student to my right. We are living proof.

In the city I live in multiculturalism is vital politically, socially and economically. I have a few examples below that you will just have to take my word on. Nevertheless I hope you will understand from reading them that mixed societies are constructive and flourishing. To deny that they are working in many corners of the world is ludicrous.

Exhibit A: I take my laundry to a drycleaners a few blocks from my house. It is run by an elderly couple from India. They are muslim and deeply religious. Besides their laundromat they have little impact on the neighbourhood. So what, you may ask, is their contribution to society?
They have one daughter and one son. Scrimping and saving for years they managed to send both their children to medical school. One has graduated and is a GP, the other is finishing their degree. They will be instrumental in improving our health care system which is in dire need of new, young doctors.

Exhibit B: The bakery where I fetch bread for the restaurant I work at is run by an Iranian couple (Muslim of course). They moved here a few years ago and set up shop. Their bakery is called “Mom and Pops”, and it is the glue that holds the village together. They sponsor local soccer teams and are part of the merchants society which supports small businesses.

Exhibit C: My mother’s doctor is an Ismaili Muslim woman from Kenya. You may not be familiar with the Ismaili religion. It has many followers in Canada and its pillars are equality of the sexes, higher education and spiritual stability. Many Ismailis are professionals: doctors, lawyers, professors. Look it up.

Exhibit D: My grandmother lives in an old age home. Many of the nurses that work there are Phillipino. One particular nurse named Joey has 7 brothers that all became nurses and work in geriatric care or emergency rooms. Each brother would pass on his nursing texts to the next brother in line! This is a prime example of how one Phillipino family has made an enormous contribution. Joey is my grandma’s favourite nurse and provides priceless care. He is entirely more vital to our society than many others, white or not.

****I can point to many, many instances of ethnostates standing the test of time, persisting despite wars, economic depressions, natural disasters, tyranny, etc… Can you point to one example of a multicultural, multiracial nation surviving for, say, eight hundred years? ***

An excellent exampe would be Turkey (or the Ottoman region). Until the First World War and the policies of Enver Pasha there remained a large and thriving Greek Christian population in Turkey. There have been fluctuating Roman populations, Armenian, Jewish and Muslim populations. In fact, despite the unrest in the last century, Turkey serves to show that populations have been mixing for millennia.

And as for your opinion that evolution has instilled in us a function that causes unrest among multicultural states.... Do you have any background in genetic studies? Are you certain you understand the principles of evolution? Evolution does not turn human against human. I am doing a degree in genetics and I assure you there is no racist gene. If anything, studies have shown that opposites really do attract. This is an adaptation of humans to PROMOTE MIXING withing populations to enhance variation. If you were familiar with genetics then you would know that the most fundamental truth in evolutionary ecology is variation promotes survival. Offspring of mixed ethnicity are healthier and more resistant to genetic disorders and disease. So do NOT bring genetics into this because social darwinism is not only the strictest form of racism but also a theory which has been disproved by geneticists in recent history. Our genes want us to live mulitculturally. Deal with it.

Cheers.
Oh and no. I’m not gay, but thanks for asking.

Posted by Cassie on December 13, 2005, 12:12 AM | #

Oh and Desmond, thanks for the enlightenment on the Ukrainian fighting force for WWI. What you entirely left out is that because they were technically citizens of the Austro-Hungarian empire (against their will), the Canadian government wouldn’t let them fight fearing they would pass on crucial information to the Germans. The numbers will obviously not show this, and statistical information is often useless in light of cultural and political norms. You are victime to the enormous condescension of posterity. Get your history straight.

And for the record my grandfather served in the RAF for the entirety of World War 2.

Posted by Kubilai on December 13, 2005, 12:13 AM | #

It is clear that Cassie is from Canada and goes to the University of Toronto.  It is also clear that she has swallowed the egalitarian bilge that is fed her.  While her majority non-white classmates say “good girl Cassie, keep drinking for it is pure nectar” as she guzzles it down.  She does not notice they throw theirs into the sewer system where it belongs.  She is naive and as much as I would love to slap her into reality, only time will do that.  The unfortunate aspect is that one sees a significant (or maybe it just seems that way since I notice it too clearly now) the degree of inter-racial relationships in Toronto, the god forsaken city. 

Hopefully one day Cassie, you’ll sober up from your egalitarian inebriation and realize that most whites in the city are living amongst themselves and in places away from the wonders of diversity.  Get out of downtown and see the truth.

Oh and Cassie, you may want to look at the stats of just who is Liberal in Canada and where they live.  Maybe that will help you somewhat in your road to recovery.

Posted by Guessedworker on December 13, 2005, 12:21 AM | #

Claire,

You are not living proof of anything.  You are a victim of globalisation and of advanced liberalism.  In no small measure this site exists to free you from these tyrannies so that you can live according to your nature.  Please give yourself some time to find out what this means, for you surely do not know now.

Posted by Kubilai on December 13, 2005, 12:21 AM | #

An excellent exampe would be Turkey (or the Ottoman region). Until the First World War and the policies of Enver Pasha there remained a large and thriving Greek Christian population in Turkey.

Oh good God, you brainwashed idiot.  Stick to what you are good at Cassie/Claire and that is singing the egalitarian party line.  Leave history alone for you have no damn clue what you speak of.

Posted by Marc on December 13, 2005, 01:46 AM | #

Cassie,

Thank you for answering my questions.  I am going to leave your anecdotal experiences alone because in the grand scheme of things they don’t matter.  For every multicultural success story you trot out, I could trot out one showing it to be a disaster and neither of us would necessarily be liars.

What puzzles me is that you say that you find some cultures repugnant but would accept people fleeing from those cultures into your own country.  How do you propose that we make certain of their motivations?  How do you propose that we weed out those who would foster those cultural attitudes in our countries? 

In regards to the Ottoman Empire… what happened to those Greek Christians, eh?  For that matter, what happened to the Ottoman Empire itself, or the Armenians much later?  What is happening now in Iraq?  I won’t deny that multiethnic, multicultural societies can thrive when there is prosperity, but the pattern really does seem to be that they thrive ONLY when there is prosperity. 

I hope to God you are not really pursuing a career in the biological sciences, because your statement that genes do NOT turn human against human is ludicrous.  Every effort we make to compete for mates against other humans is driven by an urge to spread our genes.  Every bar fight and act of simple jealousy is a result of our genes.  Every tribe ever formed at the expense of another tribe did so because of their genes.  Hell, even chimpanzees wage war on each other, rape the females in other tribes and kill the men and babies so the women will bear THEIR young (i.e. spread their own genes) sooner.

And if we are going to discuss race mixing, yes, there is something called “hybrid vigor” which may improve the health of offspring for one generation.  However, there is a much, much better documented result of mixed-race couplings, at least in regards to blacks and whites or blacks and Asians, and that is depressed IQs among the children relative to the non-black parent.  It is a simple fact that the average IQ of blacks is 85, whereas whites have an average IQ of 100 and Asians are at around 105.  (If you find yourself dismissing that fact out of hand because it is “racist” or “not nice” I would suggest you abandon your dreams of becoming a scientist).  It is also a simple fact that black-white biracial children have average IQs between the white and black means.  These IQ gaps show up across all socioeconomic levels and even in cases of transracial adoption, meaning, I’m sorry, but it ain’t nurture or environment. 

Now, I ask you, do you really think that a society full of people with an IQ of around 92 would produce the same culture and art as a society full of people with an IQ of 100 or 105?  Of course not.  Such a seemingly small shift would have drastic effects on the tail ends of the bell curve.  Now why should we, as white people, welcome the importation of millions of low IQ minorities into our country when they are only going to serve to drive down the aggregate IQ and will impede further cultural and scientific achievements?  Hmmm...?

Posted by Desmond jones on December 13, 2005, 02:14 AM | #

Of the 170,000 plus Ukrainians in Canada pre-WWI, 80,000 were designated enemy aliens. 90,000 plus were not so designated however, and were free to serve. Only 2% of that number chose to serve. It’s shameful considering the death of 60,000 overwhelming Anglo Canucks who served, for what they believed, rightly or wrongly, was to secure their nations traditions. Anglos were rightfully resentful of ethnics upon there return. There was no equivalence of sacrifice, it was only ‘we bleed while they breed’.

As Granatstein suggests, all the ethnics pumped up their numbers. So the question is, where did your Grandfather serve, in Canada? Yuzyk also served in the RAF but did not go overseas. He was conscripted, and with the exception of 2500 Zombies, who served in NW Europe with the First Cdn Army, late in the war (most of whom were Anglos) conscripts did not see action in Europe.

Ukrainians in Canada, in the thirties, escaped the horrors of the Holodomor, because of Canadian benevolence, yet you continue to spue vile unmitigated hatred toward the founding Anglo-Celtic people. It’s shameful.

Posted by Lurker on December 13, 2005, 02:50 AM | #

Cassie/Claire

You celebrate diversity in Canada. You support immigration.

You have stated these positions.

Lets say Canada was 10% black, 10% chinese, 10% arab and 70% white. Im just making those figures up as an example. That would be a form of diversity.

If, through immigration, those figures changed to 20, 20, 20 & 40 would that represent more or less diversity?

What would happen if more chinese than anyone else arrived and we end up 5, 80, 5 & 10. Would that represent more or less diversity?

If we reach 5, 80, 5 & 10 and that is the optimal level of diversity, how do you propse to maintain that?

Ive simplified of course, does diversity in fact mean scouring the globe to find small groups to come in, rather than augmenting a few large ones?

Are you beginning to see the problem here?

Do you propose a diversity authority to distribute immigrants around?

“Hello Manitoba here, we need a dozen Indians, an Irish guy and three Greeks otherwise our DQ (Diversity Quotient) will drop into the red zone!”

“Hello Alberta here, its an emergency! A chinese woman has just had triplets, if you cant get us a Hmong and a Basque by tonight we are in big trouble!”

Obviously thats silly but as you seem to think the main benefit to us (the host population) is the diversity we enjoy as a result it would worth nailing down the details.

How will you maintain diversity without immigration control? The ethnic mix will keep changing or one group could get bigger than all the others - without control.

What that leads to is what you really mean by diversity? I suspect you unconsciously take it to mean fewer white people. Or maybe you dont, I would love to know.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 13, 2005, 03:18 AM | #

That was a first-rate post, Lurker!  Very well-done!  Excellent points!  (And hilarious, too!) Thank you for that! 

(Lurker’s shaping up to be one of the most skillful and entertaining commenters here—which is saying a lot, given the quality one encounters among this site’s commentariat!)

Good job!
______
Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!

Posted by Lurker on December 13, 2005, 03:34 AM | #

Thanks Fred!

Posted by ben tillman on December 13, 2005, 04:13 AM | #

Let’s look at what Cassie Claire has to say:

Do you have any background in genetic studies?

No, but the relevant principles are general principles of evolutionary biology.

Are you certain you understand the principles of evolution?

Absolutely.

Evolution does not turn human against human.

Are you proposing that humans exist in universal harmony with one another?  Or are you suggesting that human conflict is the result of supernatural intervention?  Those are the only alternatives to the proposition you reject.

I am doing a degree in genetics and I assure you there is no racist gene.

Good for you; you have stated a fact.  But you have tackled a straw man.  It is genetic difference that creates an evolutionary conflict of interest.

If anything, studies have shown that opposites really do attract. This is an adaptation of humans to PROMOTE MIXING withing populations to enhance variation. If you were familiar with genetics then you would know that the most fundamental truth in evolutionary ecology is variation promotes survival.

As an aspiring geneticist, have you studied any biology? 

Do you know what an organism is? 

How do the cells in your body manage to cooperate so well in keeping Cassie Claire alive? 

Does it have anything to do with the fact that each somatic cell shares its genes with all other somatic cells? 

Why are the germ cells segregated so early in the body’s development? 

Do you understand the purpose of meiosis, and do you realize that genes sometimes subvert that purpose through meiotic drive? 

Why does a human body often reject a transplanted organ? 

Do you understand that the function of the immune system is to distinguish self from non-self? 

Are AIDS patients healthier than humans with robust immune systems?

Is it good for your body to allow the indiscriminate immigration of bacteria, viruses, protozoa, worms, etc.?

Again, do you know what an organism is?

Do you understand the advantages that an organism of lower-level units has over disorganized lower-level units? 

Do you understand the difficulties in integrating lower-level units to constitute an organism?

Do you understand that human communities can in fact constitute organisms, and that, ceteris paribus, human communities will outcompete human individuals?

And that human communities, to survive, require a functioning immune system just as a human body does?

Offspring of mixed ethnicity are healthier and more resistant to genetic disorders and disease.

No one is “resistant” to genetic disease.  What you mean is that they are less likely to be homozygous with a recessive allele that is not present in equal proportions in all populations.  That can indeed produce vigor in this sense in comparison with other individual humans.  But we are at a disadvantage if we are mere individuals in competition with organized communities.

So do NOT bring genetics into this because social darwinism is not only the strictest form of racism but also a theory which has been disproved by geneticists in recent history.

Social Darwinism is not really the term you are looking for.

Posted by ben tillman on December 13, 2005, 04:26 AM | #

Yes, Lurker, that was well done.  As you can see, I also believe it profitable to encourage our interlocutor to think for herself.  She will not accept us as authorities, so why tell her what to think?

Posted by Lurker on December 13, 2005, 04:32 AM | #

Thanks Ben. Im sure Cassie is a good person and really means well, wants the best for everyone, but Im sure she hasnt thought much about any of this stuff before.

Posted by JB on December 13, 2005, 06:33 AM | #

thanks Lurker. I’d put the above comment in the Comments Hall of Fame if there was one

“Hello this is Yukon. We need lots of non-whites, millions of them. We’re dying of homogeneositosis. ”

Posted by JB on December 13, 2005, 06:48 AM | #

Kubilai:

It is clear that Cassie is from Canada and goes to the University of Toronto.

all universities are probably the same. Not only in Canada but in the US as well

Posted by JB on December 13, 2005, 07:08 AM | #

Cassie:

It is curious that in a country that has one of the most highly educated populations on the planet, there would be so many liberals?

that’s funny because I often read or hear that nazism rose in one of the most educated and cultured nation in Europe. This is the example often used to show that bad ideas can settle in the intelligent and educated minds

Cassie:

Why are Canadians so left-wing? Why do we invite people from other cultures to come, take jobs that would otherwise go to caucasians, access our social safety net and free healthcare and become citizens? Because we all are immigrants ourselves.

Canadians don’t invite other immigrants because they don’t decide anything when it comes to immigration (and pretty much everything else too for that matter). I don’t recall voting to allow BC to become a chinese colony and Toronto to be turned into a dangerous multiracial mess.

Did you vote for that ?

Ottawa Putting [920] Millions Into Ontario Immigration

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/11/ottawa_putting_millions_into_o.php

or this ?

Ottawa has a $2 billion plan “to cut waiting lists and dramatically boost immigration”

http://hogtownfront.blogspot.com/2005/11/ottawa-has-2-billion-plan-to-cut.html

Cassie:

I have an entire generation of centre and left-minded people surrounding me. We are all in agreement: multi-culturalism is necessary and important for the creation of our nation.

And you all came to that conclusion by examining the big picture and making rational inferences ?

Cassie:

It is not only economically profitable but socially viable, and it will continue to be so for years to come.

how do you know that ? what are your predictions based on ?

Cassie:

The people who dispute this are at the centre of racial tension and are therefore causing the problems they so eagerly condemn.

name me one, or even 1/2 of one, politician or well-known public figure in Canada that is

A)disputing that multiculturalism is a good thing

and

B)causing racial tension because of it

even Stephen Harper courts sikhs and non-white groups

http://www.vdare.com/misc/grace_canada.htm

Cassie:

In my opinion many of you are terrified of change.

afraid of change that is bad for us. who wouldn’t ?

Cassie:

However I have deep sympathy for people who fail to find hapiness in life.

do you have sympathy for this girl ? can you guess why she didn’t find happiness much less elementary safety in that school ?

http://hogtownfront.blogspot.com/2005/11/16-black-students-charged-after-white.html

Cassie:

Evolution does not turn human against human. I am doing a degree in genetics and I assure you there is no racist gene.

you mean a gene for racism. Genes don’t have opinions so they can’t be racists. Since we don’t know yet exactly what all our genes do it’s rather presomptious of you to declare that there is no genetic basis for say ethnocentrism :

(MacDonald)In this regard, it is interesting that developmental psychologists have found unusually intense fear reactions among Israeli infants in response to strangers, while the opposite pattern is found for infants from North Germany.

There’s no Universal Individual VS Universal Individual, there are groups who compete against other groups. That’s what evolution and history has been to date so everyone should prefer caution and reality to your Can’t-we-just-get-along-I-mean-we’re-all-the-same-under-the-skin brand of sentimental naiveté

Cassie:

If anything, studies have shown that opposites really do attract. This is an adaptation of humans to PROMOTE MIXING withing populations to enhance variation. If you were familiar with genetics then you would know that the most fundamental truth in evolutionary ecology is variation promotes survival.

this real or fictional attraction for those who have a different immune system is or would be a good thing within the same ethnic/racial group but if you have say africans and whites in the same place and that after decades of anti-white propaganda white people started breeding with africans there would be a degradation in the quality of humans in at least the intelligence department. Lowering the children’s intelligence towards the african mean would harm them more than any possible immunity to some diseases. (and are we talking about diseases that wouldn’t exist in Canada if it weren’t for the presence of immigrants from Africa and Asia ?)

and what about multiculturalism/multiracialism/multisomethingism in the animal world ? Surely it must exist in nature if it’s as positively adaptative as you claim.

Cassie:

Offspring of mixed ethnicity are healthier and more resistant to genetic disorders and disease.

you better come up with some references for that assertion.

Eugenics within the same racial group would lead to healthier and more resistant to disorders and diseases if the selections and actions are done correctly. The ashkenazi jews have almost eradicated one of their traditional genetic diseases by genetic tests and abortions :

Tay-Sachs Said To Be Nearly Eradicated Among Ashkenazim

http://jewishweek.org/news/newscontent.php3?artid=10405&print=yes

Cassie:

So do NOT bring genetics into this because[non sequitur] social darwinism is not only the strictest form of racism but also a theory which has been disproved by geneticists in recent history. Our genes want us to live mulitculturally. Deal with it.

race-mixing isn’t multiculturalism it’s miscegenation. If we all mix together and all behave in the same manner it will result in uniculturalism not multiculturalism. Cassie do you realize that you don’t know the meaning of the words that you use ? Something is wrong here

Posted by Simon on December 13, 2005, 07:37 AM | #

If Islam takes over the west, it will by through the choice of the people...nothing else.... If Islam folds in the middle east and asia it will again be through the choice of the people.
Religion is a choice.... you can change your religion every few minutes if you want to… many do.
Lets get back to Cronulla.... this is a youth based issue, not a religious or racial one.... nothing else.

Posted by aussie scum on December 13, 2005, 09:11 AM | #

fuck your kangooros you drunken gang of pricks, you are living at the very end of the world, I spit on your nation fuck you motherfuckers, sons of irish scum

Posted by stocazzo di nico!!! on December 13, 2005, 09:24 AM | #

senti coglione di nico,

allora vattene affanculo a sidney e non cagarmi il cazzo

io sto a roma, se vuoi ci incontriamo che te lo spacco bene bene il tuo culo, coglione che non sei altro. e sapessi quanto ho girato, per dirti che gli anglosassoni sono una massa di teste di cazzo , e tu sei il primo coglione frustrato a cui l’italia non ha dato un cazzo, ma vattene a fare in culo in australia che di gente inutile come te non ne abbiamo bisgono. sicuramente sarai un terrone del cazzo, siciliano o peggio ancora calabrese, che avrai fatto le tue valigie di cartone piene di soppressata e che non scopa da quando aveva i brufoli in faccia. ma vaffanculo terrone sugaminchia pugliese del cazzo

Posted by Mark Richardson on December 13, 2005, 09:28 AM | #

Lurker, great post, but not too far from reality. At one school I worked at the principal decided that the children were deprived because there were too few Chinese at the school. So he sent the assistant principal to China to get some. True story.

Posted by corrado on December 13, 2005, 10:48 AM | #

we are going to see more of this in the future

there is an obvious stumbling block to theintegration of a community that does not want to integrate.

let us not confuse the liberal society with a society that excuse any sort of behaviour.

who does not accept the principle of freedom should be banned whether it is a person or A WHOLE COMMUNITY

Posted by Svigor on December 13, 2005, 07:27 PM | #

I find myself wondering why this issue has generated more posts, and more liberal interest, than anything ever posted at MR to date.

I see two possible contributing factors, aside from random chance, and both boil down to the same thing: lots of liberal bloggers linked to the story, and/or the political violence is coming from white people.

The riots in France, despite their much greater scale, didn’t generate this kind of interest.

The riots in New Orleans, despite their much greater publicity, didn’t generate this kind of interest.

The riots in Cronulla, despite their much smaller scale and publicity, have liberals all tied up in knots.

It seems to me that what really has all these leftists in a tizzy is that the political violence is coming from white people for a change.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 13, 2005, 10:30 PM | #

“It seems to me that what really has all these leftists in a tizzy is that the political violence is coming from white people for a change.” (—Svigor)

Excellent point.  If white people ever start to wake up you’re going to see a lot of people on the left crapping in their pants from sheer fright.

Posted by Guessedworker on December 13, 2005, 11:13 PM | #

Svi,

Liberals have always assumed the elasticity of white tolerance to be limitless.  The appearance of a limit shakes their faith to its roots.  What is advanced liberalism worth, then, if there are limits which they did not foresee and cannot control and, what’s more, are imposed upon it from the one quarter they always discounted?

This is not the worst time to be alive.

Posted by Kieran on December 13, 2005, 11:35 PM | #

Do you know what makes me upset about the Cronulla riots? An drunken, angry mob attacked police, paramedics (I think that is just as bad as beating up lifesavers) and ordinary people of Middle Eastern appearance who came to enjoy the beach.

Now, I am pissed off at what the Lebanese gangs are doing in Sydney as ‘payback’.

Why can’t both sides grow some balls and have a ‘Gangs of New York’ style fight instead of targeting innocent bystanders.

Posted by Svigor on December 13, 2005, 11:55 PM | #

This is not the worst time to be alive.

No it’s not, is it?

It’s been a particularly engaging six months or so.

:D

Posted by Svigor on December 14, 2005, 12:02 AM | #

Do you know what makes me upset about the Cronulla riots? An drunken, angry mob attacked police, paramedics (I think that is just as bad as beating up lifesavers) and ordinary people of Middle Eastern appearance who came to enjoy the beach.

Now, I am pissed off at what the Lebanese gangs are doing in Sydney as ‘payback’.

Why can’t both sides grow some balls and have a ‘Gangs of New York’ style fight instead of targeting innocent bystanders.

What you’re pissed about is multiculturalism.  The reality of human interaction is group conflict.  Reduce the group cleavages in a country, reduce the conflict; increase the group cleavages in a country, increase the conflict.

Multiculturalism and multiracialism are recipes for conflict.

You’re pissed at what you claim to admire.

Posted by Kieran on December 14, 2005, 12:26 AM | #

I’m not pissed off at multiculturalism. I see the Lebanese gangs as a bunch of youths (15-25) who happen to be Lebanese. I know that these individuals do not represent the Lebanese community.

Just like I believe the ‘Cronulla Cowards’ (as the Bra Boys have labelled them), do not represent the white Australian community.

I see both sides as a bunch of criminals.

Apparently, thi is not the first time there have been violence regarding the beach. In the 60s, there used to by conflicts between surfies and rockers. This was before multiculturalism.

Posted by Svigor on December 14, 2005, 02:00 AM | #

I’m not pissed off at multiculturalism.

Yes, you are, you’re just not recognizing that what you’re pissed at is part and parcel of, inseparable from, and an inevitable consequence of MCism.

I should take a step back and acknowledge that MCism is a fuzzy word and means different things to different people in different contexts.  I’m using it as a metaphor for multiracialism anti-majoritarian warfare, but strictly speaking that’s not what MCism is.  MCism is ostensibly just a way of dealing with multiracialism and “diversity,” and is actually better than assimilationist panmixia IMO.  Then again it carries the seeds of its own destruction as it tacitly invites whites to behave just as other more collectivist groups do, which spells KABOOM.

I see the Lebanese gangs as a bunch of youths (15-25) who happen to be Lebanese. I know that these individuals do not represent the Lebanese community.

That’s just absurd.  First of all, if the Lebanese don’t represent the Lebanese, then who the !$#% does?  Second, as I’ve stated before, you’re practically never going to see grandmas or soccer moms or joe six packs rioting, because that’s just not who riots.  Young males are the violent arm of every ethny.

Just like I believe the ‘Cronulla Cowards’ (as the Bra Boys have labelled them), do not represent the white Australian community.

Who does then?

I see both sides as a bunch of criminals.

I’m sure someone better-educated than me can dredge up a great quote about how war makes criminals of us all.  Oh well.

Apparently, thi is not the first time there have been violence regarding the beach. In the 60s, there used to by conflicts between surfies and rockers. This was before multiculturalism.

There’s logic for you.  So, since every neighborhood has lawbreakers, we should all make an effort to import as many lawbreakers as possible?

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 14, 2005, 02:22 AM | #

“you’re practically never going to see grandmas or soccer moms or joe six packs rioting, because that’s just not who riots.  Young males are the violent arm of every ethny.” (—Svigor, just above)

That’s another excellent point.
______
Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!

Posted by Lurker on December 14, 2005, 03:07 AM | #

Simon - I presume you regard it as a coincidence that the battle lines in Sydney have been drawn along ethnic lines. It just happened that this week the white blokes decided to be on one side and the lebanese on another. Next week they might mix it up and have blokes with even numbered car number plates vs odd numbers. Why not?

Posted by Kieran on December 14, 2005, 04:32 AM | #

First of all, if the Lebanese don’t represent the Lebanese, then who the !$#% does?

They represent themselves. Did you think they organise themselves with the community leaders and the general Lebanese community to discuss ‘who shall we beat up”?

They are just a bunch of selfish hooligans with no respect for no one (including their own community).

Did the Aboriginal youth rioting in Redfern represent us? No.
Did the Anglo youth rioting in Macquarie Fields represent us? No.
Did David Hicks fighting in Afghanistan represent us? No.

You cannot sample a minority to generalise the majority.

There’s logic for you.  So, since every neighborhood has lawbreakers, we should all make an effort to import as many lawbreakers as possible?

Last time I checked, the Immigration Department were pretty strict with importing lawbreakers. They have pretty tough procedures hence the boat people. Of course you are too smart to stereotype all immigrants as lawbreakers.

Posted by Sam on December 14, 2005, 06:38 AM | #

Ok Svigor your going to have to help me with this one....

What war exactly is it that we are fighting???

Are you saying that these Lebanese represent the entirity of the Lebanese population in Australia???
Isn’t that like saying that Mason family represents the entirity of the American population???

This kind of logic strikes me as exceptionally flawed… As with all races and cultures the people within them are not one big homogeneous group… People are just people… with all their flaws and virtues....
To try and draw such tenuous distinctions is hardly helpful…

Yes some of these people rioting are muslim.... but their number is miniscule in comparison to the number of muslims in the immediate area (there for wouldnt the majority of lebanes/muslim peoples actions in response to this rioting be peaceful??? if this is true then how can this tiny minority of lebanese rioters be representative of the whole???)… there are plenty of great muslims/lebanes people in this country, just like there are plenty of fantastic Anglo/christian australians here…

You are deluding yourself if you think that this is the start of a major ethnic/race conflict in Australia… the majority want a peaceful co-existance… and we are not going to let a minority of cowardly morons (be they white/christians or lebanese/muslims) stuff it up for the rest of us…

Sam

Posted by Guessedworker on December 14, 2005, 08:50 AM | #

Sam,

This question of what the majority wants goes to the heart of the issue doesn’t it?  No liberal can speak of majority wishes, for advanced liberalism spits on the will of the majority.  Typical of liberals, you claim that because most people want a quiet life they are content with the elite’s racial politics.  I’ve heard the same thing from Ken Livingstone speaking of the London Multicult after 7/7 ("The city will survive.  It is the future of our world").  But the common desire for a quiet life is a thing apart.  The majority has never been permitted to express its will on racial politics.

Indeed, in most of the white world there are more and more laws hedging in white people on what they may think and say, and more and more efforts to condition them to the presence of unwanted aliens, to promote pan-mixia, to indoctrinate children educationally.  If people were content and naturally welcomed “diversity” none of this would have been done.

For the white majority to express itself freely now would, in my view, require a certain moratorium - at least a couple of years of neutral politics, media expression and educational input.  But, of course, liberalism won’t back off because:-

i. It is not a political conspiracy but, in the broadest sense, a blind dynamic in which people such as yourself are unthinkingly swept up.

ii. Its elite is driven by a deep disdain for the European peoples they govern.

On the question of representation ...

Of course, the Bra Boys and the young Lebs not representatives per se of their own racio-cultural groups.  They are what they are: expressions of racial conflict.  Their importance, and the reason we are debating them, is that they prick the bubble of liberal complacency.  The Bra Boys’ stand proves that there is life in the old European dog and liberals cannot defeat Nature, as much as they deny it every day that passes.

Your race-war thing, btw, was a strawman - not worthy of you.

Posted by Sam on December 14, 2005, 09:34 AM | #

Ok where to start…

1) i never claimed everyone wants a ‘quiet life’, i said “peaceful co-existance”...... please do not re-write my words in future to suit your argument…

2) who is the eliete and what are their racial politics??? from where i sit, ideology is dead my friend, governments dont give a toss what coulour you are or what language you speak, they care about how expensive you are to employ every hour and how productive you are… from what i see of the world, asians and south americans are winning in this race.. they work for next to nothing and make lots of stuff… must be some pretty good genetic stock round those parts hey???

3) these laws “hedging in white people on what they may think and say” what exactly would these laws be???  who passed them ? where were they passed?? in what country??? i mean i could very well say the sky is made of fairy floss, but i would need to support such an assertion… so untill you can back this up i would say your point is baseless..

4) this ‘blind dynamic’ you speak of is merely an assumption on your behalf, you have no evidence to back it up, merely conjecture.. what is it they say about assumptions? - that they are the mother of all f#@k ups…

5) on the point of representation..... the bra boys had nothing to do with the race riots… the Abberton brothers have been all over the press saying that it was a discraceful act and that the bra boys were not involved and would never become involved (check ninemsn news headlines), they held a news conference with the Comancheros bikie gang (whos membership is largly lebanese) calling for calm.. the bra boys are a localised group.. they have no political ideoligy or agenda.. they are just intrested in keeping tourists off their waves… i dont know where u get your facts but they apear mostly incorrect…

6) my question on race-war was in response to a comment by Svigor on multiculturisim = majority war fare… which he has still not answered........

Sam

Posted by Dan on December 14, 2005, 11:38 AM | #

FANCULO A TUTTI GLI AUTRALIANI RAZZISTI!!!
CHE SIA PROPRIO UNO DI QUELLI CHE AVETE BASTONATO A ROVINARVI LA VITA

Traducete questo

Posted by Din Don on December 14, 2005, 01:00 PM | #

Partecipa alla discussione Dan, se ci riesci, commentando i fatti e proponendo soluzioni.
E possibilmente in inglese, se sei capace.
Altrimenti vai a farti fottere da uno dei tuoi amici e non rompere i coglioni.

Posted by Guessedworker on December 14, 2005, 03:28 PM | #

Yep, a little English please ... I mean, we appreciated the joke first time around.  But this is getting too much.  At least take pity on our curiosity and introduce us to the high poetry of Italian political debate.  “Australian racists”, was that I read?

Posted by GreetingsFromItaly on December 14, 2005, 03:44 PM | #

What war exactly is it that we are fighting???

This is the 3rd World War, Sam.

In 1974, former Algerian President Houari Boumedienne said in a speech at the U.N.: “One day millions of men will leave the southern hemisphere to go to the northern hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

That’s just what’s happening, *now*, all over the world.

And that’s why all over the world there are so many “incidents” caused by muslims presence.
As soon as they are “enough” to do so, they start to create disorders and small fights.

In Nigeria fights between muslims and animists, in Sudan fights between muslims and catholics, in middle east fights between muslims and hebrew, in ex-URSS, in China, in France… in Australia… always fights with muslims and locals.

Did you ever asked yourself *why* this doesn’t happen with any other religion or ethnic group?

Are you sure that is the whole world that is going in the wrong direction?

I think that are just the muslims that aren’t compatible with the rest of the world.

Posted by Lisistrata on December 14, 2005, 04:14 PM | #

Ragazzi avete tutto il mio sostegno e quello dei miei amici, anche in Italia non ne possiamo più.
Io non sono giovanissima, ma ho lottato per la libertà e questi fanatici islamici ce la stanno togliendo ogni giorno un pezzo.

Avete fatto bene, ma non dovete farvi giustizia da soli, è pericoloso, unitevi e marciate, pretendete dalle autorità che facciano loro giustizia, voi correte troppi rischi.

Gli islamici non vengono condannati i nativi sì, questo accade anche in Italia.

Traslation:
Traduzione:
Boys you have all the my support and that one of my friends, also in Italy not of we can more. I am not young, but I have fought for the freedom and these fanatics us Muslims ce are removing it every day a piece. You have done good, but you do not have it makes justice alone you, it is dangerous, joined to you and marched, you expect from the authorities that they make justice, you you run too many risks. The Muslims do not come condemned the NATO yes, this happen to you also in Italy.

Posted by Guessedworker on December 14, 2005, 05:05 PM | #

Sam,

Thanks for your detailed reply.  I answer as follows, with apologies for the length.

1. What evidence do you have that a majority of people of European heritage want - WANT, Sam, as in “desire as a personal goal” - to peacefully co-exist with aliens.  Would that not militate against white flight from minority districts, which is clearly a physical fact?

It comes down to this: Liberals, in an act of shameful and criminal selfishness, have foisted racial equality on their own people.  The fact that ordinary white people have withstood the onslaught and for the most part suffered in silence DOES NOT IMPLY APPROVAL.  Indeed, they have very clearly never been asked for their approval precisely because the governing class know it would get a bloody nose.

2. “Ideology is dead” you say.  So the findings of psychology and genetics and the will of the people can guide government at last?  But wait, ideology is NOT dead.  On the contrary, it wafts such trifles as science and democracy away in the name of racial egalitarianism and low labour costs (political and economic ideology).  So, is that it for you?  The purpose of life?  Dispossession and deracination for Western Man on the one hand, and on the other economism as the only measure of Everyman’s worth?  Is that what liberalism comes down to in its old age?

3. I am going to ask you to book a public hall and advertise a forthcoming series of speeches you intend to give.  Hand tickets out in the local shopping centre, write to the media.  Then, on the chosen day, stand up before your audience and the press and explain the unity of the human race, the causes of minority disadvantage, the obligation on the rich to care for the poor etc.

The next day do the same explaining the nature of Islam, the mean IQ of Africans, the Jewish Question and the exaggerations of Holocaustism, and the case for a referendum on the repossession of our homelands.

Try this exercise in Canada, and when you get out of prison try Germany, Austria, Sweden, Britain ...

4. Of course, I understand that you have not come across the idea of “liberalism as a blind dynamic” before.  It happens to be my own miniscule contribution to political theory and most MR regulars are pretty familiar with it by now.

The really great philosophical ideologies, Sam, do not battle with each other in a Manichean sense throughout eternity.  Actually, they battle for only a limited period.  Then one emerges triumphant and society is increasingly ordered according to its dictat.  Over time, feeble-minded Man pursues the over-arching ideas of the ruling philosophy so unevenly that an imbalance enters into things and ugliness begins to erupt.

Now, in my England the ancient polity of tribal kingships of the post-Roman period gave way, post-Norman Conquest, to feudalism which in turn gave way, post-1485, to an emerging Conservatism which, post-1832, was itself overtaken by liberalism.  No practical trace of the forerunners survived the change.

This idea of philosophical conquest posits that in the West today, just as there is no feudalism, so there is no genuine Conservatism nor any practical possiility of it (you have to know what that is, of course, before you can appreciate what this statement means - and an excellent helpmeet is Martin Hutchinson’s book, Great Conservatives - click on his name in the sidebar for details).

So in our polity there are only the ideas of liberalism and, spectrum-wise, only right and left liberalism.  But liberalism is highly distinctive and unusual in that, unlike tribalism and feudalism and, also, Conservatism - which founds individual freedom on the engendering of stability - liberalism discards stability to pursue ever more and newer freedoms from ever more and newer repressions.  It is itself inherently unstable and factually IN MOTION.  That is the sense in which I call it a dynamic.  The reason that dynamic is blind is because the freedoms and repressions one must, must, must aspire to/escape from next are never known by ordinary people beforehand.  We Westerners, for example, never knew we were racist from birth until refugees from Germany told us so in the 1940’s!

Advanced liberalism - the present and, I believe, final incarnation of the beast - has been Cultural Marxist since the early 1980’s, a fact never imagined during the classical Marxist period of the 1950’s and 60’s.  Consider, for example, the two main books of John Rawls, where the Great Society influence in the earlier morphs into a cultural model in the later.  You see the line of liberal development?

I am sorry to be so sketchy on this but I hope it helps to explain something of my view of liberalism and advanced liberalism.

5.  I am not an Australian, Sam.  I go on what the press reports say.  However, representation-wise I think that the appearance of these white lads in North Cronulla was an expression of simple racial conflict.  I think it is a mistake to try to extrapolate more than that from them.  They weren’t mandated by anyone.  They don’t claim to speak for anybody but themselves.  Their action was spontaneous, ie it had its cause in racial conflict.

At the very least, they are a sharp reminder to liberals who think ordinary people can turn their back on race and opt into some civic or constitutional identity that that idea is flat wrong.  Nature, which liberals have denied for a century, will always out in the end.  You may disagree fundamentally with the direction of, for example, my race-realist Conservative politics but you cannot win the argument.  You cannot relegate Nature in Man’s soul.

Posted by nico on December 14, 2005, 06:05 PM | #

minkia, ma siete coglioni é proprio vero che gli italiani sono la cacca del mondo, fate skifo a cani, non sapete ne scrivere ne parlare, per fortuna che, ripeto, gli australiani non vi capiscono!!!!!questa é l’unica cosa buona, minkioni tezte di cazzo!!!
scrivete in inglese non c’é bisogno di tradurre, perché tanto non ci sono altri italiani che partecipano in questo forum.
per quanto riguarda il piu coglione di tutti, uno di cui manko ricordo il nome, troppo ignorante, ti ripeto amico:
si vede che sei proprio frustrato, io non ho manko letto il tuo post, manko ti considero, sei un mongoloide, un rotto in culo, watch out mate im fukin ur mother right now sonofascru, stupido imbecille, sei un povero italiano di merda, ignorante, vivi con le pecore come tutti gli italiani, ripeto che l’italia e il paese piu arretrato del mondo insieme al sudan, con la gente piu stupida e ignorante, e fate proprio skifo, non capite ció ke si dice né sapete esprimervi.
a te ti compatisco perké sei un povero bambino minorato, ti spakkerei la faccia ma non andro a roma per questo né per scoparmi a tua madre, che sicuro mela scoperei,perché roma mi fa cagare, é una cittá di merda, con la gente piu ignorante del mondo, un buco di culo e i romani fanno veramente pena, ho avuto la sfortuna di passarci ma grazie a Dio non c ho mai vissuto.
non sapete parlare nessuna lingua al mondo, manko italiano, asini.
io non sono italiano, balordo, ma come vedi aprlo molto meglio di te.
ti posso parlare in dieci lingue, anlfabeta, ho girato tutto il mondo e tui solo la pancia di tua madre, entendés boludazo sos una nadería que camina, una rechazo asqueroso de algún albañal podrido, ni merecés que se te escupa en tu raca de mierda, hijo de turra, la atorranta que te parió, guacho puto, andate al agujero de donde saliste puto, fuck off and dont piss around again
quando gli islamici ti faranno saltare saro a ridere, ora ti lascio, divertiti.
gli australiani hanno le palle ke tu non hai, bacia il culo a tutti,bambino.
questo post e stato interessante, ma mi pare non ha piu nulla da dire.
c ya mates

Posted by nico_again on December 14, 2005, 07:07 PM | #

again a little post for italian mind-troubled ppl......
mi dimenticavo di dirti, bambino scemo, che oltre a non andare in una cittá di merda come roma nemmno per romperti le ossa (cosa ke mi piacerebbe), visto ke la cittá mi fa skifo, non ci andrei neppure perché l’italia é uno dei posti piú sudici e pericolosi della terra.....e se continuate cosí, fra poko lo sará ancora di piú....
tu non devi aver capito nulla di quello che é successo a sydney perché manko saprai leggere italiano, figurati inglese, ma ti spiego che semplicemente gli australiani sono scesi in piazza a cercare battaglia con chiunque avesse un aspetto “sospetto”, perché semplicemente super stufi di continue provocazioni da parte di gruppi di islamici soprattutto....
insomma, gli australiani generalmente sono le persone piu tranquille del mondo (mai avuto il minimo problema quando ho vissuto lí) ma se provocati....reagiscono, dimostrano ke hanno le palle.....
vai un po’a dire coglionate in australia, bambino, e vedi k fine farai....vai, se hai le palle.
invece, questo é quello ke non sanno fare gli italianetti...popolo inutile,anzi,nemmeno un popolo.....esiste forse un popolo italiano??? si odiano gli uni gli altri, fra nord e sud, est e ovest.....succede solo in italia....quelli del nord dicono ke il sud é una merda, ma il nord é peggio pure, jajaja..neppure si capiscono parlando tra loro....solo in italia.....si lamentano sempre,sanno solo andare in piazza con candele accese, piangono piangono e piangono, vengono nei siti australiani a dire porkerie in italiano ke gli australiani non capiranno mai.....jajajajajajajajjaja
l’emblema dell’inutilitá.
perché nessuno al mondo fa le figure di merda ke fanno gli italiani??? qualcuno se lo dovrebbe kiedere.
io vi rispondo in italiano (ke é la lingua piu inutile del mondo, manko in italia mi é servita), perche l’ho imparato visto ke ho vissuto seppur per poco grazie a Dio in italia, ma non aspettatevi ke altri vi capiscano e/o rispondano.
il mondo comunica in altre lingue, non in italiano.
comunque, se qualche mente kiusa non l’avesse capito, vi informo che é per pikkole provocazioni che gli aussies hanno reagito.,,,pikkole per modo di dire, ma non gravissime: aggressione a lifesavers sulla spiaggia, provocazioni da parte di islamici a ragazze aussies......hanno ritenuto opportuno far sentire la loro voce, e hanno fatto bene, sep`pure hanno esagerato un po’-
ma questo succede quando qualcuno non ne puó piú.
io non vivo in italia, ma leggo online i giornali, e so ke in italia succedono cose ben piu gravi: un mese fa piu o meno, quattro violenze carnali in 4 giorni,,,tutte da immigrati, agggressioni e violenze costanti, so da persone ke ci vivono ke in certi quartieri di milano (dove cé la moschea) si ha paura a passarci, furti nelle case con pestaggi e violenze, soprattutto nel nord est ma da poco anke a taormina, insomma........incredibile no???
io leggo, per questo so, pur senza esserci.
Queste cose non son successe in nessun paese europeo cosi tante, figuriamoci in australia....se fossero successe in australia, ci sarebbe stata la guerra ora!!!!!!!!!!!
RAGIONATE AMICI ITALIANI, GLI AUSSIES SCENDONO IN PIAZZA A FARSI SENTIRE PER UN AGGRESSIONE A DUE LIFESAVERS!!!! COSA SAREBBE UN AGGRESSIONE A DUE A DUE LIFESAVERS IN ITALIA????MANCO NEI GIORNALI FINIREBBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IN ITALIA VIOLENTANO LE RAGAZZE, QUELLE KE TROVANO, DAPPETUTTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LO DICONO I GORNALI, NON IO....
SE SUCCEDESSE IN AUSTRALIA O IN UN ALTRO PAESE, SAREBBE IL FINIMONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
capite o non capite ora???????????????
aprite gli okki prima ke sia troppo tardi.
so ke i giudici italiani liberano i potenziali terroristi.....
purtroppo solo una bomba ( ormai probabilissima) scuoterá a qualcuno.
detto questo, ringraziando Dio ke non tutti i popoli sono come gli italia-inetti, vedi aussies, e ke i lebs non fanno festa dapperutto come in italia ( ho letto un’articolo di un giornale della siria dove ridevano del fatto ke i potenziali terroristi fossero liberati in italia), infatti a sydney non hanno festeggiato tanto, saluto il forum perché ho visto l’orientamento, quacuno intelligent almeno cé,e non scriveró piu posts qui, meno ke mai in italiano.
a mai piu risentirci, take care of yorselves.
lets hope aussie ppl get their mind clear and achieve a bt of rest after these trobled days.
in quanto a te italianetto non sapro mai piu nulla di te e son contento. curati la testa, cresci, purtroppo non posso aprirti il cervello a calci e cambiartelo, se ti avessi davanti lo farei, ma sicuro laggiu nel tuo piccolo paese del cazzo qualcuno lo fara per me.
sei davvero un bambino deficiente, per quanto mi riguarda puoi andare al diavolo, imbecille.non meritavi nemmeno risposta, ma é giusto ke tu sappia ke hai vinto il premio di piú mongoloide del pianeta.
curati e a mai piu risentirci.
chau

Posted by Svigor on December 14, 2005, 08:51 PM | #

Ok Svigor your going to have to help me with this one....

What war exactly is it that we are fighting???

Far be it from me to tell you exactly which wars we’re fighting, but I can outline one of them for you: it’s a war being waged on the various peoples of the west by their own elites.  The elite class wants to dissolve anything that stands in the way of a single consumer mass, a single market, a single audience.  That’s why national borders, markets, languages, peoples, etc., must be eroded as far as possible.

Obviously anyone who would preserve his nation, people, culture, language, etc., stands athwart the road between these elites and their goals.

Note that I’m not anti-capitalist, but rather I believe capitalism should be harnessed for man’s benefit, not the other way around.

Are you saying that these Lebanese represent the entirity of the Lebanese population in Australia???

To an extent, yes I am.  Every ethny is responsible for its bad elements.  I like to quote John Hartung in these situations:

http://members.aol.com/toexist/Shiksa11.html

In-groups sandwich an outline for animosity, an organizing principle for prejudice, between layers of social support. Whether Christian or Muslim or Jewish, every extremist is supported by a small number of less extreme admirers and each of those supporters is buoyed, in turn, by a larger group of sympathizers. These connections are continuous right down to the bottom of the pyramid, where vaguely symapthetic in-group members are offended by the very extremists who would have no base, and no basis, without them.

It is that vague sympathy which needs to be examined.

Isn’t that like saying that Mason family represents the entirity of the American population???

Sure, but since we’re dealing with a sliding scale here, and the Manson family is an absurdly small sample size and America is a polyglot nation, I don’t see your point.  In other words, the Manson family says far less about the American population than these youths say about the “Australian” Lebanese population.

This kind of logic strikes me as exceptionally flawed… As with all races and cultures the people within them are not one big homogeneous group

This truth does not logically lead to this lie:

… People are just people…

Groups differ significantly in their mean (average) behavior.  They differ in mean ranges of behavior, the tail ends of their bell curves differ, etc.

Yes some of these people rioting are muslim.... but their number is miniscule in comparison to the number of muslims in the immediate area

The number of violent criminals in any population is usually (in the west at least) miniscule in comparison with the overall numbers.  That doesn’t mean that the differences between populations are insignificant.  Who here claims to know the tipping point, where a population goes from capable of maintaining a western-style civilization to incapable?  I suggest that tipping point will usually rest well inside your “miniscule” characterization in numerical terms, but I reject that characterization when it comes to social impact.

I guess La Griffe du Lion has come closest to answering that question, as far as I know, with his “smart fraction” theory.

(there for wouldnt the majority of lebanes/muslim peoples actions in response to this rioting be peaceful???

I don’t see sitting around and letting the violent arm of one’s ethny (young males) carry out violence against the majority group as “peaceful.” Using the Hartung quote above, I’d call that aggression instead.

In fact, I regard the simple presence of immigrant alien groups as an act of aggression.  Consider, is alien immigration, especially at anything more than an insignificant level, into a population with ambivalent feelings about alien immigration not an act of aggression?  Given the nature of man tending towards group identification and hostility to aliens, wouldn’t an immigrant who wished to avoid aggression go to great lengths to ensure that the host population had positive feelings toward alien immigration?  Granted, the western establishment present a false picture for would-be immigrant aliens, but at least in America and Europe the poll data is available and clear: there is significant native public animus against alien immigration.

if this is true then how can this tiny minority of lebanese rioters be representative of the whole???)… there are plenty of great muslims/lebanes people in this country, just like there are plenty of fantastic Anglo/christian australians here…

In what proportions do the great ones and the bad ones exist in each?  You seem to be tacitly asserting that they exist in identical proportions, but I don’t think you can support that assertion.  In the absence of evidence I say it’s safe (and wise) to assume they exist in different proportions as (gasp!) they are after all different groups.

Difference is the opposite of equality.

Posted by Svigor on December 14, 2005, 08:55 PM | #

Also, one can extrapolate (however crudely) the norms of the whole group from the behavior of the “bad ones.”

Does calling little girls in swim suits “tarts,” does gang rape against outgroups, characterize Australian youths the way it does Lebanese youths?  I think it’s safe to suggest that the relatively greater misogynistic tendencies (for example) among the Lebanese youth indicates a relatively greater tendency towards misogyny among “Australian” Lebanese in general.

Sure, this is falsifiable - let’s set about falsifying it, shall we?

Posted by Svigor on December 14, 2005, 08:59 PM | #

Me:

First of all, if the Lebanese don’t represent the Lebanese, then who the !$#% does?

Kieran:

They represent themselves.

You didn’t answer my question, you dodged it by answering a question no one asked.

You cannot sample a minority to generalise the majority.

You can most certainly sample a group and generalize its overall character.  Sure, there are caveats, but people do it all the time, and it has tremendous predictive power if done right (see political polls for details).

Posted by Svigor on December 14, 2005, 09:07 PM | #

1) i never claimed everyone wants a ‘quiet life’, i said “peaceful co-existance”...... please do not re-write my words in future to suit your argument…

Way to dodge GW’s devastating point.

2) who is the eliete and what are their racial politics??? from where i sit, ideology is dead my friend, governments dont give a toss what coulour you are or what language you speak, they care about how expensive you are to employ every hour and how productive you are… from what i see of the world, asians and south americans are winning in this race.. they work for next to nothing and make lots of stuff… must be some pretty good genetic stock round those parts hey???

Like most liberals, you’re starting to sound like what I call a “liberal white supremacist.” You seem to think that the groups behavior won’t change as their numbers increase.  It will.  Look at Arabs in Europe.  The first generation was humble and pliant; it knew its place.  The subsequent generations are emboldened by their numbers and native “tolerance,” increasingly aggressive and group-aware, and not interested in serving massa.

Posted by Sam on December 14, 2005, 11:55 PM | #

ok Guessedworker and Svigor, sorry for late reply, sleep and surfing was necessary....

what evidence do i have that people of european heritage desire to live peacefully with aliens....

umm well how about 300 years of colonial expansion.... european people have been exploring and setteling amongst aliens for centuries… if these aliens were so detestible why didnt they just exterminate them when they settled in these new colonial out posts???… if they are stil so undesirabel why dont the majority just exterminate them now??? i mean they are the majority right??? so why dont they just get rid of them???… because they dont want to.. the majority of european people welcome diversity within their culture.... u can claim all you want that people are blind/stupid/held down by the eliete rarara… but at the end of the day most people of european ancestry in the west live in democracies… if we WANTED that badly not to live with so called “aliens” then we wouldnt…

i should point out here that ‘if’ and its a big ‘IF’, european people do not want to live with so called aliens and this desire comes from some inbuilt genetic disposition then why did they go out and conqure most of the known world? have children with these host populations? and begin new lives in these countries turning their backs on europe??? hardly strikes me as the thing to do if you want to preserve your culture and way of life… hmmm???

Guessedworker… im stil waiting for the name of that legislation hemming in white people… the senario you describe applies equally to all people in the countries you mention… white/brown/yellow/purple polka dot.... where is the specific legislation you claimed existed hemming white people in...??? does it exist or are you just making stuff up to suit your political biases???

Svigor… you are saying that the lebanese youth rioting are indeed representative of their communities.... ok interesting point.... and that people of all cultures are responsibe for their bad elements??? ok then why are australian prisons occupied by 40% of inmates who claim to be cathlioc? 13% who claim to be protestant? and a masive number in at around 3.5% who claim to be muslim....???? (stats from the sydney morning herald)… where are the anglo/christian leaders taking responsibility for the MAJORITY of incarcerated prisoners who are of anglo/christian decent???
they are no where… so why should the greater lebanese community be held responsible for a minorities actions when the anglo/christian communities are not???

Guessedworker… my point about ideology being dead was in reference to the voting public… sure economic ideology exists within governments… but how many people out in the street could answer what kind of ideology they believed in?? i would say not many.... your right, people are consumed by capitalisim and material possession… its perhaps the new ideology.. infact i would go so far as to describe the sole remaining ideology amongst western voters as being ‘selfishness’… people dont want an ideal to believe in any more… they want shiny stuff, plasma screen TVs, new couches… rarara… personely like you, i think this is a cop out on humanity… but it seems to be what people desire

oh and Svigor i would point out that putting raw data onto a bell curve and drawing conclusions as to race related behaviour is a inherriantly flawed process… sure looked at in purely numerical values stats will pretty much tell you what ever you want them to… but looked at in context of cultural advantage/ disadvantage, socioeconomic dislocation, access to education/ health care its the surrounding context that gives those stats you speak of any kind of real vale.. unless you are somehow claiming that there are over riding universal truths when it comes to race related statics??? of which i would be very intrested to hear about…

im going to be so bold as to suggest that this conflict that you have tied up with race and religion has more to do with economic status than anything… maybe there is a race related element to it, and yes plenty of young muslim males seem to have chips on there shoulders.. however plenty of young males all over the world have chipps on their shoulders… especially those from poor-impoverised backgroungds....

Posted by Guessedworker on December 15, 2005, 12:40 AM | #

Sorry, Sam, I didn’t realise you needed the formal titles of the hate speech laws in place around the globe.  I am happy to throw a few at you if you doubt their existence.  But I know you don’t.  You are instead trying to disqualify them on the basis that they don’t say “Hate Speech Law for White People”.  That is such a disingenuous posture that I missed it first time round - guess it never occured to me that you would try such a sleight of hand.

Well, there is only one law that meets your specification, and that is the hate law in Sweden.  The legalistic view there is that non-whites are formally incapable of racism, since they are the disadvantaged group.  The law is legislated specifically, therefore, upon the Swedish population.

Elsewhere this assumption of brown-skinned moral perfection is not made in law.  But you already know, of course, that hate speech is not enacted so that aliens can be forced to speak kindly of their hosts.  It is part of the Cultural Marxist pathologisation of the normal defensive instincts of native European ethnies.

In the UK, for example, there has been one prosecution of a Muslim extremist cleric who repeatedly called for violent jihad in the most public and wreckless way.  After 9/11 he gave the Home Office no choice.  On the other hand, the Home Office is chancing its arm hugely to try to imprison Nick Griffin and another officer of the BNP on the weakest imaginable grounds: he warned his own membership in a private meeting of the violent potential of Islam a few months before 7/7.

Liberalism has become corrupted in its present phase.  It isn’t worthy of your loyalty, which should by rights go to your people (are you of European lineage?).

On the subject of corruption, I wholly agree with your assessment of consumerist, gew-gaw modernity.  But again, this is the consequence of a polity centred on the self.  I am not suggesting that some kind of grand Nietzschian glory is necessary in life.  But, clearly, there are other more important things than self.  They are just not attended to within a liberal polity - indeed man, woman and marriage, childhood innocence, loyalty to kin and country are actively trashed by marxian culture war.

Posted by sam on December 15, 2005, 07:00 AM | #

woah.. hang on a sec…
one moment you say that legeslation exists “hemmimg in white people on what they may think and say”.. i ask a perfectly reasonable question.. “whats the name of the legislation?” and suddenly this is sleight of hand???

No way champ.. its a reasonable question within the context of the discussion.. your political BIASES might make it seem like they are in fact directed at white people… but this does not make it so… you cannot claim one thing then cry foul when you dont back your unfounded statements up.
Btw do you know what year the sweedish legislation was passed? was it a federal law? i would like to read the legislation before commenting on it…

i would still like to know your thoughts on my first two paragraphs in my last post… i would be interested to see how you can rebutt the colonial expansion dynamic in relation to keeping cultures and gene pools isolated…

yes i am of european decent… however my people are Australians, they come from all over the world, you cannot pigeon hole them.. Australia is home to over 200 languages.... i have grown up in poor inner city areas and upper class affluent areas...with a mulitude of different religions and languages being present… some of my best friends are chinese, italian… lebanese.. kiwis.. russians.. poles… british… sri lanken.. you get the point

Did you grow up in such an enviroment GW?

i have also travelled and lived extensivly throughout SE Asia and found nothing but warmth and friendship from everyone i was lucky enough to meet… the world is what you make it GW, you probably dont believe me but there are some amazing people and places out there…

and if i could have your thoughts on those two previous paragraphs that would be great…

Sam

Posted by Kubilai on December 15, 2005, 07:29 AM | #

Sam, you’re being quite obtuse or disingenuous.  Go to http://www.amren.com and you will see on a daily basis inequality directed at whites.  That is IF you are so eager to understand and I do question that.

You state:

i have grown up in poor inner city areas and upper class affluent areas...with a mulitude of different religions and languages being present… some of my best friends are chinese, italian… lebanese.. kiwis.. russians.. poles… british… sri lanken.. you get the point

No I do not get the point.  What exactly is your point?  I am very similar to you and either know or directly interact with many people of different backgrounds.  Your point is irrelevent because I still do not want my country or any other western nation to become overrun with genetically and culturally distant peoples.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 15, 2005, 07:47 AM | #

yes i am of european decent… however my people are Australians, they come from all over the world, you cannot pigeon hole them.. Australia is home to over 200 languages.... i have grown up in poor inner city areas and upper class affluent areas...with a mulitude of different religions and languages being present… some of my best friends are chinese, italian… lebanese.. kiwis.. russians.. poles… british… sri lanken.. you get the point (—Sam)

I don’t know about GW but I certainly get the point, Sam—you’re an ever-more-and-more-boring pro-multi-culti fanatic who’s been so brainwashed you’re beyond help at this stage.  I get the point perfectly, as a matter of fact—it’s plain as day from the totality of your comments and becoming clearer with each new one you post.  It’s now become crystal-clear.  You make a pretense of being neutral when in fact you’re as left-wing as Simon and as committed to the multiculti radical left-wing wacko religion.  What are you doing here?  You should check out Catallaxy, Jason Soon’s pro-race-replacement site—you’d feel a lot more at home there, with all the other eunuchoid know-nothings.  MR.com’s not for white male castrati or the cognitively destitute, sorry—men and women here actually have synapses, functioning gonads, normal circulating hormone levels, and a thing called red blood ... ever hear of it?  ( ... yeah, didn’t think so ... ).  When the world just the other week saw your side, the wacko radical left, open new legal proceedings against the Vlaams Belang because Filip Dewinter mentioned the word Islamophobia; when, as GW just reminded you, Nick Griffin goes on trial next month for the “crime” of failing to adquately genuflect when the word “Islam” left his lips last spring at a meeting; when David Blunkett threatened to arrest Jean-Marie Le Pen during his visit to England, for previous “hate-speech”—when this and a thousandfold more is part of a campaign to silence speaking out on excessive incompatible immigration and race-replacement, you’re going to have the nerve to ask for citations of the names of specific laws?  You are a radical left-winger who tries to hide the fact under a guise of open-mindedness and neutrality.  You’re extremely boring.

Posted by Sam on December 15, 2005, 08:08 AM | #

Hi Kabilai, im Sam .. Nice to meet you to…

The point was directed at GW, not at you, so of course you dont get it…

Yes of course white people get racialy abused… people from all walks of life get racially abused… so? racisim is found in most countries around the world… it is generally related to a FEAR of others.... this “othering” is a defence mechanism, people defend them selves when they feel threatened or endangered… again so? racisim is not exclusive to any one culture or group… what is your point? are you saying you are scared or affraid of others who you do not understand? or are you saying that whites are MORE racially villified than other races???.. if so please show me the evidence for your assertion

Perhaps we are diametricly opposed to what we see as a healthy society… personally i have no problem with other races and cultures mixing with whatever race or culture is about at the time… its been happening since man took his first step.. you know nomads, land bridges, migration due to famin, climate change… i hate to break it to you but we are all culturally and racial mixed to some degree SHOCK HORROR!!!! i know...(check out Geffory Blainys “A brief History of the world” hes a right wing historian as far as those things go and makes some excellent points with fantastic research backing it up).. you are a product of evolution and there is no way in hell that you can claim to be geneticly pure or culturally isolated… are all your clothes made in the country you live in? Have you ever eaten pepper? do you like stir fry? have you ever eaten a Kebab with extra hommus? (a personel favourite), can you trace your family tree back to Adam and Eve??? Culture is like smoke.. you cant help but breeth it in… so unless u live in a bubble.. which is unlikely tho not entirely implausable, then you are affected by different cultures every moment of your life…

So unless you can somehow demonstraight that you (yes you yourself) have some kind of unique human genome that is exclusive to you and your people then i am somewhat hesatant to believe that anything about you or your way of life is infact genetically or culturally different from anyone elses.... so unless you can provide some kind of evidence to this effect then it would seem that your cause is already lost…

If you have some thing to say on the first 2 paragraphs of my second last post i would be extremly interested to hear it.. the silence is somewhat deafening in response to the questions i posed…

Have a good day....

Sam

Posted by Sam on December 15, 2005, 08:19 AM | #

hahaha hey fred… man you sound cool....
where do you live?? do you live in Australia?? i would seriously like to meet you.... we can have a BBQ, drink beer, lie in the sun, check out girls in bikinis, watch world wrestling federatin and talk about building monster trucks.... sounds awesome..

Umm as far as i know yes everything functions.. i was asked to do some porn a while ago… but didnt want to embarrass the other guys…

No im not neutral.. never claimed to be.. yes i would lean left in my political persuasions.. but i am seriously interested in how and why you think the way you do.. i have an open mind on whatever anyone has to say… im not here trying to cause trouble.. just having a conversation or two.. but if im boring, why read my posts??? im not holding a gun to your head… Or do you somehow think you can have a real discussion when EVERYONE thinks the way you do??? sounds like excitement plus…

Have a good day fred.. email me if your ever in Oz and i’ll sort that BBQ out....

Sam

Posted by Guessedworker on December 15, 2005, 11:04 AM | #

Sam,

“i am seriously interested in how and why you think the way you do”

We do not belong to the sleeping hordes swept up by a liberalism that has been corrupted by German-Jewish philosophy.  Liberalism has become tyranny and we seek to be free of tyranny.

Posted by Sam on December 15, 2005, 11:17 AM | #

stil havent answered my questions GW..

do you make it a habbit to dodge questions when you cant come up with an answer, because the answer migh scare you???

how can you accuse simon of dodging questions then do it yourself..? your just another hypocrite obviously…

Colonial expansion… ???? im going to sleep now.. gives you 8 hours to come up with something profound… if your capable that is… you to fred… feel free to have a crack....

Posted by Guessedworker on December 15, 2005, 11:20 AM | #

Sam,

Elsewhere on the blog today Al Ross links to this article by Prof Frank Ellis of Leed University.  It begins:-

No successful society shows a spontaneous tendency towards multiculturalism or multiracialism. Successful and enduring societies show a high degree of homogeneity. Those who support multiculturalism either do not know this, or, what is more likely, realize that if they are to transform Western society into strictly regulated, racial-feminist bureaucracies they must first undermine these societies.

This transformation is as radical and revolutionary as the project to establish Communism in the Soviet Union was. Just as every aspect of life had to be brought under political control in order for the commissars to impose their vision of society, the multiculturalists hope to control and dominate every aspect of our lives.  Unlike the hard tyranny of the Soviets, theirs is a softer, gentler tyranny but one with which they hope to bind us as tightly as a prisoner in the gulag. Today’s “political correctness” is the direct descendant of Communist terror and brainwashing.

This is what your Left has become.  Why we “think the way we do” should be obvious enough.  The question is: why do you, as a person of European lineage, think as you do and thereby support this evil?

Posted by Sam on December 15, 2005, 11:45 AM | #

i guess im just a mean horrible person with no common decency… wow and i thought i was kinda ok…

i’d rather hear what you had to say on the questions i posed but regurgetated ramblings obviously are the order of the day....
its a shame you couldnt come up with at least some kind of creative propoganda.. but hey no ones perfect ... right??

Posted by Guessedworker on December 15, 2005, 11:49 AM | #

Sam,

Are you denying that Hate Speech law is part of the cultural offensive against our people?  Do you not know its provenance?  Apparently not.

On the issue of racial mixing, I am sad to see that you have no knowledge of genetic human bio-diversity and sociobiology.  Are you not following the progress of genetic science (there are many articles by JW Holliday in our archive)?  Do you not even know that African brains are, on average, small and light and productive of a low mean IQ ... that the skeletal structure of African women permits of narrow hips because those women are going to give birth to babies with small heads containing small brains ... that African production of testosterone among men and women is substantially higher than, respectively, among European men and women and higher still than among Mongoloids.

Judging the safety of abolishing the European homelands on the basis that genetically distant peoples are “nice” and “warm” in their own (homogenous) countries is simply childish and irresponsible.

Sam, the great difficulty we have debating people of your persuasion is in tying you down to adult thinking on the critical issues.  You all have a fatal capacity to float off on a scented highway of bien pensants.  You skip genetics and science.  You skip the profound finality of abolishing your own people.  What seems to matter to you is exercising your own personal sense of morality, as though universal truth lay there.

We have a word - “awakening” - and a phrase - “recovering liberal” - which at some time have applied to all of us on the race realist right.  At some point we have all woken up to the liberal suppositions and half-truths that we had previously, unthinkingly imbibed.  It can take as long as five years to wake up, once the process begins.  But nobody travels back into the vanity and ignorance of old.

I hope you have the potential for your own awakening.  It does not mean you have to hate anybody - that’s a crock employed by leftists to silence dissent.  It means you put away illusion and begin to acknowledge Great Nature in your heart and in your mind, that is all.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 15, 2005, 02:23 PM | #

I just logged on (a little later than I usually do in the AM) and am hurrying to get out the door to the office—haven’t time to post anything longer, but just want to note I’ve just had time to glance through Sam’s post of 8:08 and 8:19 and it couldn’t be more clear that the guy’s an exact Simon-Cassie-June Gordon-Robert Lindsay clone, an exact duplicate.  He says he’s open-minded but everyone can be sure he’s rigidly committed to race-replacement, as rigidly as Simon on his best day.  There is absolutely no point arguing with a brainwashed or hate-filled robot like this—you’ll only be taken round and round in the circles over and over again till you finally figure out the guy’s brain is completely closed off.  I wasted enough time with Simon the past couple or three days, I’m not about to start doing the same with this guy.  Bye, Sam—and, uh ... I think I’ll pass on that barbie invitation, but thanks very much—hey why don’t you round up Simon, Cassie/Claire, June Gordon, Robert Lindsay, Jason Soon, and some of the Catallaxy eunuchoid regulars?  I’m sure they’d love to come!  See ya!
______
Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!

Posted by Kubilai on December 15, 2005, 02:39 PM | #

oh and Svigor i would point out that putting raw data onto a bell curve and drawing conclusions as to race related behaviour is a inherriantly flawed process… sure looked at in purely numerical values stats will pretty much tell you what ever you want them to… but looked at in context of cultural advantage/ disadvantage, socioeconomic dislocation, access to education/ health care its the surrounding context that gives those stats you speak of any kind of real vale.. unless you are somehow claiming that there are over riding universal truths when it comes to race related statics??? of which i would be very intrested to hear about…

im going to be so bold as to suggest that this conflict that you have tied up with race and religion has more to do with economic status than anything… maybe there is a race related element to it, and yes plenty of young muslim males seem to have chips on there shoulders.. however plenty of young males all over the world have chipps on their shoulders… especially those from poor-impoverised backgroungds....

Sam,

You are partially correct about the “fear” aspect to different races and people.  Yet it is more a self-preservatory, ingrained aspect in our genes from time immemorial.  Marxist drivel and liberal feelgoodisms aside, you cannot change that.  However, even that is not the point, because WE and I would suspect nearly all, would be against having their countries and continents overrun with genetically distant peoples and to have their race replaced (if put in those terms and not the lies of the left).  Despite your arguments of gustatory delights, which has been debunked, there is no need to fill place with others who ARE different.

As to your quote above, which I presume you want answered, I fail to understand what exactly you are trying to achieve with it.  Stats show group averages and in that context, they are quite powerful and reproducible.  We cannot ignore that despite them shedding light on many unpleasant aspects of “others”.  You are simply TRYING to soften the cold, hard reality of what the stats show with this… in context of cultural advantage/ disadvantage, socioeconomic dislocation, access to education/ health care its the surrounding context that gives those stats you speak of any kind of real vale, which may or may not be true.  Who cares?  We do not want race replacement, get it?

All young men have chips on their shoulders to a degree, so what?  All men are not created equal (actually no one is equal) and neither are their reactions and behaviour.  It has NOTHING to do with economics, absolutely nothing.  It has to do with genes and culture.

Posted by Guessedworker on December 15, 2005, 02:55 PM | #

Fred,

Sadly, I agree that these are creatures lost in the maze of liberalism.  Should we debate with them?  The point of no return for me is the appearance of self-hatred.  When I sense that my interlocutor feels negatively towards his own people because he or she can thereby refer the pain of his or her own self-hatred, that’s psychological morbidity.  The individual concerned simply has no prospect of behaving differently.  I give up the effort to persuade as a lost cause.

There is, however, non-morbid liberal persuasion, and even if we cannot persuade our immediate interlocutor to question his or her assumptions, nonetheless there are thousands of others who read our words.  Some of those words might go some small way to helping somebody piece things together and start the search after truth.

Otherwise why would we blog?

Posted by ben tillman on December 15, 2005, 08:21 PM | #

but at the end of the day most people of european ancestry in the west live in democracies…

No, Sam, we don’t.  Switzerland comes closest, and even it falls short.  I must ask, do you have any idea what a democracy is?  Hint:  It has NOTHING to do with voting.  And, by definition, it cannot exist other than in a mono-ethnic population.

Posted by ben tillman on December 15, 2005, 08:34 PM | #

Elsewhere this assumption of brown-skinned moral perfection is not made in law.

Well, I would argue that it exists in Canada as well.  Sections 318-320 of the criminal code deal with prohibitions of “hate speech” and genocide.  But the government of Canada itself pursues a policy of genocide of the white majority, which precludes any application of the anti-genocide law in defense of whites.

Posted by ben tillman on December 15, 2005, 08:48 PM | #

i would still like to know your thoughts on my first two paragraphs in my last post… i would be interested to see how you can rebutt the colonial expansion dynamic in relation to keeping cultures and gene pools isolated…

It’s hard to take such a question seriously. 

The desire to live apart from those different from oneself IS NOT THE ONLY DESIRE PEOPLE HAVE!  People have other desiderata, including a desire to acquire resources.  That is a desire that, for some, may appear to be better served by moving to foreign lands where such resources may be found.

As for gene pools, the desire isn’t keep “gene pools” isolated; it’s to keep ONE’S OWN gene pool isolated.

By the way, the extent to which the “colonial expansion dynamic” is due to Europeans (as opposed to the Jews living among them) is debatable.

Posted by ben tillman on December 15, 2005, 09:08 PM | #

As for gene pools, the desire isn’t keep “gene pools” isolated; it’s to keep ONE’S OWN gene pool isolated.

Actually, it’s not a matter of keeping one’s own gene pool isolated; it’s a matter of maintaining ownership of one’s own gene pool, so that one may change it if one wants, as one wants.

Posted by ben tillman on December 15, 2005, 09:24 PM | #

Perhaps we are diametricly opposed to what we see as a healthy society… personally i have no problem with other races and cultures mixing with whatever race or culture is about at the time…

Sam, I asked Cassie/Claire something along these lines. 

Do you apply the same principle to your body?  Do you support the free and indiscriminate mixture of genetically various bacteria, viruses, protozoa, worms, etc. with your genetically identical human cells?  If not, why not? 

The bacteria and other immigrants may well flourish in such a scenario, but the community—i.e., Sam—will perish.  It is precisely the same with a community of humans as it with a community of human cells.

Posted by Svigor on December 15, 2005, 09:28 PM | #

There is, however, non-morbid liberal persuasion, and even if we cannot persuade our immediate interlocutor to question his or her assumptions, nonetheless there are thousands of others who read our words.  Some of those words might go some small way to helping somebody piece things together and start the search after truth.

This is a critically important point.  For every poster, a blog or board has a great many lurkers.  Remember that these readers, and not your opponent, are who you’re persuading and you’ll be on a more even keel responding and you’ll have your rational motivation for doing so.

There’s roughly zero chance of persuading the Simons of the world, but many can be persuaded by seeing him take a thorough beating (rhetorically speaking of course).

Also keep in mind that ideas can be like mental time-bombs; they may take years to go off but when they do, they can quickly enact cognitive dissonance and ideological change.

Posted by ben tillman on December 15, 2005, 09:44 PM | #

Sam, what does an immune system do? 

It discriminates.

It discriminates between “self” and “non-self”. 

The government, through anti-discrimination regulations and enforcement, prohibits the community’s use of its immune system.  At the same time, the government continually injects “non-self” into the community.  The certain consequence of this program is the death of the community.

Genocide.

Posted by Sam on December 16, 2005, 05:57 AM | #

Afternoon all....

in reply, in no particular order..... if i miss any questions please point them out… i have no problem attempting to answer questions.. unlike like some....

Ben… bacteria… viruses are a fact of life.. infact without them you and everyone would be dead.... your immune system wouldnt cope if random bacteria did not enter it on a daily basis.. its that bacteria that helps you produce antibiodies that stop you dying..... bacteria makes you stronger not weaker..... yes i let random bacteria enter my body… buggers are so small i cant see them when they creep up on me… Can u see them.. is your eye sight that good??? Not to mention that you are ASSUMING that different people within societies somehow equal bacteria/ viruses...... such an assumpion is unfounded to say the least…

Yes i have problems with many aspects of modern day democracy… however democracies are not lame duck institutions… politicains will kiss there own arses if they think it will get them re-elected… if your viewpoint was the majority view point do you doubt for one moment that politicians would not bend over backward to accomodate your beliefs???? they would, in a heart beat.. i think your problem here is that your view point is not in the majority and that somehow everyone else is stupid…

oh and ben last time i read some history it was the rulling (white) classes of europe who pushed for colonial expansion.... your point about jewish involvement in this process is a red herring… so the question remains.. if the preservation of gene pools and the desire to “control” ones gene code is so important to white europeans.. why have millions upon millions of “white” people fled and inter related with races from all over the world....?

ben your point about communities immune system is poorly made… do you claim to speak for every man woman and child in your community??? YOUR immune system may well be self regulating however the thousand/s of people in your community do not belong to one organic organism.... there for no such community immune system can possibly exist.. no matter how much you may want it to…

GW.... yes i deny that hate laws are targeted at whites… where i come from the law applies to everyone… (yes yes we could debate endlessly the criminal justice system here.. yes i acknowledge that some out comes in law differ dramatically.. that does not mean that the intention or application of these hate speach laws are directed at whites.. it simply means that no system is perfect or even near perfect).... nothing you have provided as evidece supports your assertion…

On biology.... your claim that african brains are smaller and lighter on average than europeans may well be true… this is not only genetically related… in could be equally true that their diets and climate contribute to this senario… as for Mean IQ’s of afriacns being lower this is hardly suprising… in areas of war, lack of education, poor health care, poor diets it is hardly suprising to find such a result.. i would argue that you would find lower IQ’s in any area with these endemic problems.. be they white/ european.. asian… of african ... i would be interested to see how people of african decent in europe and america score on these tests.. do you know of any studies to this effect???

ps i would argue that Darwin in no way ment his theory of evolution to support “survival of the fittest”....
take this example.......
there is a sudden drop in mean temperatures across the globe.... a sudden ice age ensue..... who survives?????
FAT people thats who..  their fat cells protect them from this sudden climate shift.. now i would not describe these people as ‘fit’… they merely had a trait that protected them from this change....
would you claim that all these fat people are the prime example of the human race and therefor the an example of the fittest surviving???

Kubilai.... no you are wrong… context is everything when examing stastics… raw data is usless unless interpereted and analised…

Fred… i do not hate anyone.... believe what you think best…

Posted by Andrew on December 16, 2005, 06:30 AM | #

Simon, I do not know what barrow you are pushing, but Immigration previous to the last 30 odd years was based on European assimilation, yes name calling was on the front, but in Australia in general it is a term of endearment. We are now faced with the Criminal element of Existentialism and its worshipers, The Wet Left: and Cultural Marxism, PC-Or put in language, Antithesis psychopathic looters and Moochers. Socialism is a term to convey some psychotic amnesia of what it is to live and survive, this term is in fact a sophisticated attempt to rearrange the Human Psyche. BRAIN WASH. To Prepare you to loose everything you have is the way of the newly psyched armed Looters, just a newer way- instead of Armed Invasion and looting, Same thing just you let it happen and do not fight back. White fellow’s Fight back and we fight back hard; it is in our genes being Anglo’s. So if you think you are taking what is mine and what our ancestors left us, you best jump on a plain and move somewhere more fitting for your attitude.

Posted by ben tillman on December 16, 2005, 12:08 PM | #

ben your point about communities immune system is poorly made…

No, it is not.  You simply lack the capacity to follow arguments.

Posted by Sam on December 16, 2005, 12:19 PM | #

ben,
if that is true then tell me where i have gone wrong in my analysis… or can you only write one line objections when you can’t mount an effective argument?

Posted by GreetingsFromItaly on December 16, 2005, 12:28 PM | #

Sam,

i have no problem attempting to answer questions..

Well, you missed to answer my very simple questions a couple of days ago.

Do you think you could find the time for answer them now?
Thanx

Posted by Guessedworker on December 16, 2005, 12:35 PM | #

Sam.

You have a lot of work to do to catch up on the IQ debate.  Environmentalism - the Blank Slate - is dead in the water among cognitive psychologists.  Only the most politically-aware keep the faith.  The position among the fair-minded is neither that IQ is 100% inherited nor 100% environmental.  The difference between mean racial IQ’s is maybe 80% inherited.

On cranial capacity size the left’s Blank Slate view, which is central to the equality agenda, was posited on Franz Boas’ 1910 study of 17,000 negro skulls in America.  He claimed 100% environmentalism on the basis that African populations acquired bigger skulls by moving to America!  Notwithstanding some doubts about the fact that measurements for only 13000 skulls were found in Boas’ evidence, his study remained pretty much holy writ until 2002. But then it was revisited by two American academics who found in it zero evidence for skull growth.  Boas made it all up to suit his anti-gentile agenda.

Generally, you seem to have much to learn.  Try to maintain an open mind and resist Pee-Cee.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 16, 2005, 02:16 PM | #

“White fellows fight back and we fight back hard; it is in our genes, being Anglos.” (—Andrew)

That’s precisely one of the reasons they’ve been targeted for elimination:  they resist totalitarianism, the iron boot-heel on their necks be it the Marxist variety, the Wall-Street variety, or—what we’ve faced since 1989—a combination of the two, in unholy alliance.  Andrew if I might I’d like to add that important statement to my signature slogans.  Let Anglos never forget the stuff they’re made of.  Let them never, ever, ever lie down and die before the oppressor, the killer, the bringer of genocide.  Their ancestors didn’t.  Who saw “The Lord of the Rings”?  We’ve always had the Grima Wormtongues with us—the Simons, the Sams.  We disregard these packets of poison completely as we get on with the work that lies ahead.  Margaret Thatcher when she was threatened by the Argentine jackboot didn’t bend, didn’t break, but knew what Englishmen had to do in that situation and got on with it.  So must we now. 
______

-- “All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.”—Enoch Powell
-- Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!
-- Balkanization is better than Brazilianization!
-- The 1965 Immigration-Holocaust Act:  the gift that keeps on giving!
-- What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the usual suspects!
-- “White fellows fight back and we fight back hard; it is in our genes, being Anglos.”—Andrew

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 16, 2005, 02:34 PM | #

Sam if you’re sincere, and not just a non-stop vomiter of his own self-hating rage all over others as Simon apparently is, check out this piece by Prof. Rushton which was published ten days ago at http://www.Vdare.com .  It’s a very important and handy brief “survey” article on where race-realism stands scientifically.  Most bloggers and regular reader-commenters at MR.com (not all, but most) incorporate the facts Rushton discusses into their thinking and comments about the immigration crisis, multiculturalism, diversity, affirmative action, nationhood, race, what I and some others call race-replacement, and so on.  If you have questions regarding what Prof. Rushton says in the article, questions, for example, in regard to how solidly the heritability of IQ has been demonstrated by twin studies and in other ways, you have only to click on the relevant links in the piece—ones to Prof. Arthur Jensen’s or Prof. Rushton’s prior articles, for example, or the one to the book, “The Bell Curve,” by Herrnstein & Murray—to see exactly what the evidence is.
______
-- “All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.”—Enoch Powell
-- Moratorium-plus-Repatriation!
-- Balkanization is better than Brazilianization!
-- The 1965 Immigration-Holocaust Act:  the gift that keeps on giving!
-- “White fellows fight back and we fight back hard; it is in our genes, being Anglos.”—Andrew
-- What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the usual suspects!

Posted by ben tillman on December 16, 2005, 05:10 PM | #

if that is true then tell me where i have gone wrong in my analysis…

Regarding the immune system:

The fact that there are bacteria that have a mutualistic relationship with humans is completely irrelevant to the issue of indiscriminate immigration.  You completely ignored the obvious fact that there all sorts of creatures that are harmful to humans.  They must be kept out.  Without a functioning immune system, a human will die.  Same goes for a community of humans.

Not to mention that you are ASSUMING that different people within societies somehow equal bacteria/ viruses...... such an assumpion is unfounded to say the least…

It’s a matter of straightforward logic that they equal bacteria/viruses in the sense that they are genetically different from the organism.  They are nonself.  Strangely, right after you praise bacteria as being so good for us, you imply that the comparison with bacteria implies something negative. 

politicains will kiss there own arses if they think it will get them re-elected…

That doesn’t really help if they’re out of touch with reality. 

if your viewpoint was the majority view point do you doubt for one moment that politicians would not bend over backward to accomodate your beliefs????

Our viewpoint is the viewpoint of the overwhelming majority.  Every poll ever taken in a majority-white country reflects majority opposition to the government’s policy of importing dissimilar immigrants.  In the US, the black population is even more hostile to it.  Obviously, politicians will not (or cannot) accommodate the popular will.

oh and ben last time i read some history it was the rulling (white) classes of europe who pushed for colonial expansion.... your point about jewish involvement in this process is a red herring…

It would be a red herring only if Jews were European.  They’re not.

so the question remains.. if the preservation of gene pools and the desire to “control” ones gene code is so important to white europeans.. why have millions upon millions of “white” people fled and inter related with races from all over the world....?

I already answered this question.  There is no inconsistency to be addressed.

ben your point about communities immune system is poorly made… do you claim to speak for every man woman and child in your community??? YOUR immune system may well be self regulating however the thousand/s of people in your community do not belong to one organic organism.... there for no such community immune system can possibly exist..

I do not have a community, so I cannot speak for any other member of “my community”.  Whites are prevented from constituting communities through nondiscrimination laws, forced integration, etc.  If I did have a community, its members would constitute an organism.  That’s what an organism is.  Read David Sloan Wilson’s work.

Posted by Svigor on December 16, 2005, 05:12 PM | #

Sam, I have to concur with GuessedWorker that you’ve basically put your foot in it.  You’re not dealing with the choir here.  Race-realists (regardless of their politics, which diverge widely) swim in the ocean, and environmental determinists (you) swim in a plastic kiddie pool.*

I mean nothing personal at all by that.  It doesn’t reflect poorly on you that you’ve been taken in by ED; what it lacks (totally) in credibility and rigor it makes up for in establishment power.

What you do now will reflect on your character.  I’m not referring to politics here, but to one’s recognition of factual reality (i.e., HBD-realism (Human Biodiversity)).

Are you going to react to the truth by slinking back into the swamp of lies you’ve been mired in, or are you going to put on your critical-thinking cap and start examining the evidence?

You’re what I was referring to when I was browbeating Simon.  You may have internalized someone else’s lies all your life, but you seem to have a fundamental core of fairness and open-mindedness that Simon does not.  My guess is he is a deliberate enemy of all European peoples (and that he himself is not European) but that you are not.

All I ask is what you should be asking for yourself: a critical examination on your part of all the available facts and arguments.  If, after doing so, your politics remain unchanged then at least they have done so in the light of the criticism that exists (in your case that’s going to be very, very difficult).

After all, shouldn’t you know what it is you’re opposing before opposing it?

*You’ll find that people here are willing to teach you to dog-paddle, maybe even the basic strokes, so you can keep your head above water, but the swimming is going to be up to you.  It takes a good while to assimilate enough data to have even a basic grasp on HBD.  It took me years of reading before I had that and a grasp on the basic political ramifications.

Posted by Hypocritical wogs on May 28, 2007, 02:00 AM | #

Lebanese Paradise and fiji indianz finest,

This is rudimentary stuff, but, as you both seem so “proud” to be members your respective ethnicities, do you not find it hypocritical to demonize Australians of Northern European extraction who are proud to be white? What makes you so special?

“caus is it a prob to be lebo? well i don’t think so caus i was proud punshin ur heads in at cronalla “ - Lebanese Paradise.

I see. Logically, as you had no qualms about assaulting and battering white Australians at Cronulla, it’s not a problem to be a lebo. “punshin” [sic] our heads in. My, my, you make a fine representative of your people - both your obvious intelligence and remarkably peaceful attitude towards natives of your host country - let’s have more just like you. As for your anguished cry of “racism”, you must either be quite stupid or have much difficulty sleeping at night. You claim this eternal victimhood card of racism (ie, what you call whites trying to defend themselves as a group), while in the same breath threatening more violence if we don’t acquiesce.

Listen to this: the issue of whether or not we (yes WE - white Australians, descendents and relations of the pioneers who invaded this country and made it suitable for European settlement) ever wanted the likes of you (yes you non-brits / non-northerners, basically those who, despite being 3rd generation or more in Australia still cannot shed the ethnic identity of their homelands), in OUR country has never been an issue for which we could vote for or against at a national election. We never got a chance to say who we wanted in this country.

And if you so called anti-racists are so confident, as you often seem, that multi-racialism for Australia is the future, then I’m sure you would have no objection to a national referendum on the issue, or something, ANYTHING, resembling a democratic decision. Then you’ll see what whites, who are still the vast majority in this country, really want in terms of immigration policy.

And this isn’t a question of superiority, so don’t even bother getting on your anti-neonazi-aryan supremicist Hitler bullshit high horse. Screaming “nazi racist” at the top of your lungs makes you no more moral than anyone else.

It’s a question of wanting to live with your own kind - that’s why you lebs have formed enclaves in South-West Sydney: you like living with other lebs. It makes sense. That’s why the Italians settled en masse in the inner west (much more peacefully than the Lebanese of course - could it be the similar backgrounds perhaps? Christian, European, hmmm), they wanted to be with other Italians.

And you know what, it goes further than that: do you know why, Lebanese Paradise, there have been no wild protests a la Cronulla against the rapidly growing population of Chinese and Koreans in North West Sydney? Because they don’t form gangs and go around gang-raping white girls, intimidating and harrassing strangers and beating up volunteer lifeguards at the beaches - lifeguards who have probably rescued you kooks from the ocean after swimming out of your depth to retrieve a badly kicked soccer ball (after having cordoned off half the beach for the game - threatening anyone who doesn’t comply with violence).

Lebanese frickin nightmare more like it. Get this: as much as you are told the contrary, you DON’T have just as much right to live in this country as white Australians. You AREN’T just as “Australian” as everyone else, and your comments above prove this. And I’m sorry our government got you, your family and my family into this mess because I know much of the decision to come here wasn’t yours, and the government policy to invite you to come here certainly wasn’t ours. Here’s hoping for peaceful repatriation - I’m sure given how maleable “nationality” is these days, you’ll have no trouble at all fitting in back in Lebanon.