Category: Far Right
Despite The Guilt Trips of World War II (discussed below on the anniversary of Dresden)
Here is an interview request that I sent to Dr. Christian Lindtner on February 12th
Dear Dr. Lindtner,
As producer for Majorityrights.com, I am writing you to inquire as to the possibility of arranging for an interview.
Majority Rights takes a position (secular) regarding Christianity which very much respects your scholarly critique.
Nevertheless, while I am writing you at this email address, my inquiry actually has more to do with a hope to discuss appropriate response to the fall-out of World War II, facts and mythos.
Your videos discussing holocaust revisionism are the most credible on the topic that I have seen. I do not see it as necessary to go-over that same ground in exhaustive detail. My position is that subsequent generations of Germans and others are innocent and ought not have to continue to pay, irrespective of the facts of Nazi Germany.
I am not anti-German and I am assuming that neither are you, anti-German.
My question is, how do we assert our innocence, along with that of present day Germans, to warrant implementing our defense of our nations as the preserves of our native nationals? - particularly in light of, and despite, the holocaust?
I believe that despite the holocaust that Germany and Europe does not owe the world, Jews, or anybody, its destruction through immigration and assimilation.
This is different from what holocaust deniers, even revisionists, are saying. Committed revisionists and deniers seem to believe everything, all of our defensive warrant, hinges upon debunking the holocaust. It is perhaps easier for me to see that as not necessarily the case as my ancestors even, had even less in the way of historical responsibility. Nevertheless, revisionists seem to have an overwhelming desire to unburden us of guilt trips* for these events, for which no guilt ought to be assigned them - and as a result, it seems to me that they are making the cause for European national sovereignty more resisted and less trustworthy when, in fact, it is a fully legitimate cause and ought to be seen that way irrespective of the holocaust.
What I seek from you in an interview is to help build this case to establish the warrant of European nations to preserve their nations for their native kinds despite The World Wars, whatever the facts.
Please say that you will grant us the interview Dr. Lindtner. It can be very important to inter-European peace and survival.
For those of you who take exception to my deferential use of the word “holocaust”, understand that by it I mean a name given to mass deaths of Jews in the world war, however they came about, irrespective of any obnoxious elevation of importance of Jewish deaths over European deaths - which Dr. Lindtner recognizes in his characterizing it, holocaustianity, as a religion.
At the Yalta conference, just days before the Dresden firebombing..
And this comment on the article..
From a particularist/nationalist perspective it’s best to write it off as a painful learning experience and get on with nationalism 2.0.”
I keep hearing these retarded arguments that the Nazis shouldn’t have invaded Russia and that Britain should’ve let Nazi Germany do as it liked with Poland. If 20/20 hindsight is exercised, then it should be said that Hitler shouldn’t have invaded Poland.
The next argument, also retardedly Buchananesque, is that Poland was betrayed to the umpteenth degree anyway and therefore Germany invading was of no matter.
But even under Soviet control, Poland retained a semblance of national boundaries, more importantly from its point of view, its language and more importantly still, its native genetic homogeneity. Horrible as Soviet control was, neither Poland’s boundaries, language nor genetics were in Hitler’s plans.
The holocaust of the peoples of Dresden is horrible. It is an unspeakable loss of European genetic treasure. As were all the European deaths of World War II - a war unnecessarily fought as a 1) conventional military war and unnecessarily 2) inter-European as it largely was, pitting R1b against R1a - both frames, conventional militarism and anti-Polinism/anti-Slav, were Hitler’s/Friedrich The Great’s.
If you want to use 20/20 hindsight to re-frame World War II and what should not have been done, take it to herr E1B1B1 Hitler.
Don’t kid yourself.
Look at how sick and enraged that Europeans were of ANOTHER World War, which Hitler and his worldview had some small part in initiating, a worldview that had the thin pretense of warrant to take lands and displace peoples up to the Urals on the basis of three and a half small cites being given to Poland by Versailles, a world view that had the design of removing your nation newly established after a bitter ordeal and fight of 123 years, and the realization of his plans of smashing it, taking it away again, killing your father, wife, your daughter, your brother, and you too, charged with an imperson- al mission of bombing a precious German city, might just allow yourself to do that.
A habit, custom, and world view following the line of Friedrich the Great, based on inter-European militarism and a friend enemy distinction of Germanics/Slavs is what should be rejected with 20/20 hindsight - not that Roosevelt and Churchill shouldn’t have gotten into the war, but that Hitler shouldn’t have ordered it in that way.
And don’t kid yourself either - if you know that a European nation like his has plans to take your nation and eliminate you (that was basically known) and some Jew points a gun at that European guy looking to kill you, what are you going to say? No, Mr. Jew, don’t shoot at this guy looking to kill me?
If you want to exercise 20/20 hindsight, for all the European deaths, where it should not have started, the epistemological blunder was with herr E1B1B1 Hitler’s world view and actions thereupon. And if you want to keep Europeans hating and fighting each other, just keep promoting the “innocence” of his worldview and the “supreme and singular guilt” of the Allied leaders.
Posted by DanielS on Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 12:38 AM in Anti-racism and white genocide, Far Right, History, Marxism & Culture War, National Socialism, Revisionism, That Question Again, White Nationalism
War is a harvest for the chosen – i.e., not you, or anyone else halfway normal.
Making official what has been de facto for months, Ukrainian President Poroshenko has announced suspension of public services and funds to people of the Eastern Provinces.
Kiev stopped funding for pensions, educational and medical facilities in eastern Ukraine.
The war has also destroyed infrastructure and homes, leaving many desperate for shelter. With the winter coming on, this is a death sentence to many. Those in jeopardy are afraid to speak-out, terrorized with the threat of death or imprisonment. In the meantime, there is a shocking uncaring among the populace of the unaffected areas. From Poroshenko on down, the attitude is one that this is the choice of the peoples in the Eastern provinces and they are getting what they deserve.
In fact, Poroshenko may well be building a case against himself, a portfolio replete with a litany of war crimes. The people of Ukraine, consuming the “Western” propaganda fed them, have all too often become as callous as the YKW who abide of common folk blamed and killed for crimes of The Soviet era and more accurately, for internecine animus stirred-up by Israel’s proxies.
It would perhaps not be so surprising for youth to succumb to crass material appeals of the West, nor for that matter, for the callous uncaring of those “Jew-wise” National-Socialists Banderas to be animated by ultra nationalism as a result of Western bribes, propaganda and instigation to war, but even older folks have turned their backs on people they could be looking in the mirror at – turned their backs, ensconced in the expert propaganda, psychological conditioning and bribes from the YKW and their bottomless funds.
Yes, so cynical and ruthless they are in their aims that they would even use “Nazis” to fuel war and fund their harvest. Note who Victoria Nuland met with and promoted in her nation building efforts. These “Nazis” of course, report right back, hands out for another bribe to join The EU. A lot of good that is for European nationalists, yes?
While the people of the East, enculturated to not trust the West (with good reason) resist Westernization, they are caught in a no man’s land. They are not in Russia and not under its jurisdiction. Putin’s Russia, having a commitment to being a “non-racist” proposition nation is not perfectly innocent of course, from a WN standpoint, but quite reasonably does not want Nato and The EU (or literal Nazis) at its border any more than The US would want Soviet missiles in Cuba or Red Army troops in Mexico.
Putin has been harangued for not helping these people who have been cut-off from the Ukrainian state. However, it is not a part of Russia, it is a part of Ukraine, and Russian lorries carrying food and aid are not always being allowed to get through to the people in need. Where are Victoria Nuland’s 5 billion going?
Fuck the EU indeed.
Posted by DanielS on Monday, November 24, 2014 at 09:06 AM in European Nationalism, European Union, Far Right, Global Elitism, Globalisation, Jewish Diaspora, Journalism, Military Matters, White Genocide: Europe
Black Lies in White Nationalism: Hitler didn’t instigate war, modestly sought appropriated territory
Black Lies are being circulated in White Nationalism -
“He only modestly sought territory ‘wrongly’ appropriated”
Those claims are demonstrably false from the beginning of Mein Kampf:
“People of the same blood should be in the same Reich. The German people will have no right to engage in a colonial policy until they shall have brought all their children together in one state. When the territory of the Reich embraces all the Germans and finds itself unable to assure them a livelihood, only then can the moral right arise from the need of the people to acquire foreign territory. The plow is then the sword and the tears of war shall produce the daily bread for the generations to come.”
Posted by DanielS on Saturday, October 11, 2014 at 08:45 PM in Ethnicity and Ethnic Genetic Interests, European Nationalism, Far Right, History, National Socialism, Popular Culture, The American right, Thread Wars, White Nationalism
Germans in Slavic Lands, Poles and Other Eastern Europeans in Western Europe
When grappling with the extent and length of entanglement of Jewish interests in European affairs, perhaps one can come to appreciate GW’s fastidious concern to separate what is authentic native/nationalist European - and what is not - through his ontology project.
Posted by DanielS on Wednesday, September 24, 2014 at 04:01 AM in Activism, British Politics, European Union, Far Right, History, Immigration, Immigration and Politics, National Socialism, White Nationalism
The nobly inclined, missteps, the ill-advised and the misnamed.
MR’s commentariat survey European/White Nationalist exponents.
It’d “be good (to have) a post critiquing far right nationalist movements and leaders:”
“or any other high profile organisations or individuals you can think of.”
I would be quick to add William Pierce among others.
Rather than relying on extant articles surveying these peoples and platforms, we may look at these matters afresh with the interest of MR commentariat.
Taking as a point of departure the terminology that JamesUK’s adopted upon broaching the topic, what jumped-out as salient and perhaps in need of re-naming or re-framing was The Order designated as “Right-Wing Extremist.”
...“right wing extremists like The Order”
There are also parallels with “The Sons of The Revolution” who fought for independence from Britain; we might go on to discuss them among other guerrilla campaigns which fought for independence. That is, naturally, revolution and the taking or re-taking of a nation can entail “extreme” activities according to the status-quo and powers that be.
But to begin discussion, a comparison of Bob Mathews and Józef Piłsudski is relevant to normalization as the parallels are clear, yet Piłsudski is not stigmatized, he is widely accepted a nationalist hero.
Posted by DanielS on Wednesday, September 10, 2014 at 11:24 AM in Activism, Anti-racism and white genocide, Awakenings, European Nationalism, Far Right, Law & Order, Liberalism & the Left, Marxism & Culture War, U.S. Politics, White Nationalism
- By William Hanna
“Attorney of the damned”, author of “Defensive Racism” dies imprisoned by ZOG
“Get the story out folks” - Stan Hess
From: Cyndi Steele, Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 8:35 PM
“The past 4 years Ed and my family have been living in a nightmare. Today, my greatest fear has come to life or maybe I should say death. Please read the message below that is being posted on the Free Edgar Steele website and sent to all of his supporters as I type this. It is with great heartbreak and devastation that I send you this news.”
Posted by DanielS on Thursday, September 4, 2014 at 11:25 PM in Activism, Anti-racism and white genocide, Demographics, Far Right, Global Elitism, Law, Law & Order, Libertarianism, Marxism & Culture War, Obituaries, Race realism, The American right, U.S. Politics, White Communities & Micro-Economies, White Nationalism
Our football coaches were not Marxists imposing integration with blacks.
Perhaps because I was never immersed in Marxist/Leftist literature, but rather was repulsed by radicals, their advocacy of non-Whites in particular, repulsed enough to be averse to embracing even their better critiques, I never saw “equality” as an issue one way or another.
But even though it may have had something to do with not circulating among Marxists or immersing in their literature, I never really heard many “leftists” or anybody, for that matter, talking about wanting “equality.”
It has been rightists who have been overusing opposition of this term, adopting this paradigm and its blueprint for disaster - setting matters into false comparison and necessary conflict/dominance-subordination, whereas our concern for separatism is to be negotiated* in qualitative terms of differences that make a difference (qualitative non-sameness, paradigmatic incommensurability as opposed to inequality).
*“Negotiation” more in the sense of ‘negotiating an obstacle’ than in trying to reason with people, though we will do that too where our interests are yet to be violated.
Coming back to “the point of the day”, objectivism and its most pointed corollary of turning issues into quantitative comparisons - equality/inequality - is what our football coaches were going by - not cultural Marxism - when they considered it unthinkable that blacks should be kept off the football team and eventually, that the cheerleaders should not cheer them on…and couple with them:
Interracial marriage proposal flaunted at 2012 Super Bowl half-time
Runaway objectivism, its “rational” blindness flouting “equality,” is a load of race mixing poison that our right wing brings to the equation. This part of the blame derives of our ranks, not from Jews.
Posted by DanielS on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 at 11:54 PM in Activism, Anti-racism and white genocide, Crusade against Discrimination in Britain, Far Right, Race realism, Sport, White Nationalism
While we are (in 299 words) addressing David Duke and his single greatest cause issue - Jewish power and influence - with his admonition against their strategy of divide-and-conquer, we should ask..
Is it not possible that our traitorous White plutocrats would be happy to have us fight a war against that which is also their greatest enemy - Jewish power and biocultural patterns - and use us as cannon fodder?
What, after all, have they done for us?
What have they done to merit our loyalty?
What have they done to fight Jewish power and influence? mass non-White immigration into European peoples’ habitats? the destruction of European cultures and people?
Posted by DanielS on Friday, August 15, 2014 at 06:04 AM in Activism, Anti-racism and white genocide, Awakenings, Business & Industry, Crusade against Discrimination in Britain, Ethnicity and Ethnic Genetic Interests, European Nationalism, European Union, Far Right, Genetics & Human Bio-Diversity, Global Elitism, Globalisation, Immigration, Immigration and Politics, New Right, No particular place to go, Political Philosophy, The American right, U.S. Politics, White Genocide: Europe, White Nationalism, World Affairs
The Pejorative Side of Modernity or Civilization, Competing Theories or Allied? Part 2
Posted by DanielS on Sunday, July 6, 2014 at 03:17 PM in Activism, Anthropology, Awakenings, Ethnicity and Ethnic Genetic Interests, Eugenics, Far Right, Genetics & Human Bio-Diversity, Globalisation, Marxism & Culture War, The American right, The Proposition Nation, White Nationalism
Is liberalism in my European head?
...or in interaction with social influences such as media?
Posted by Guessedworker on May 05, 2014, 12:18 PM | #
“There is no psychological immune deficiency. MacDonald made a mistake. He is a psychologist, not a philosopher. He looked in the structure of the mind for what exists in its thought. Those who have internalised it and speak from it are not to blame for their suggestibility. But nothing useful can come of a mistaken beginning.”
Posted by Guessedworker on May 06, 2014, 02:27 AM | #
“Incidentally, how does this crazed universalism of the European Mind square with the evidence for implicit racism?”
Posted by DanielS on Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 03:37 AM in Activism, Anthropology, Anti-racism and white genocide, British Politics, Conservatism, European culture, Far Right, Feminism, Political analysis, Political Philosophy, Popular Culture, Psychology, Social Conservatism, Social liberalism, Social Sciences
That Hitler and the Nazis were not White/European nationalists, nor can they represent the interests of White/European peoples.
I would like to clear the way further for Majority Rights as a place of sanity for White interests.
Indeed, if a former head of state where I am from had the attitude toward Germans and Germany that Hitler had, for example, toward Slavs and Eastern Europe, frankly, I would not boast of this man, but would be eager to leave him in the past as an embarrassing expression of overcompensation. I am frankly surprised that this is not the default position of every self-identifying White nationalist.
Hitler’s was a position which could only have led to inter-European fighting and diversion from our proper organization.
On the other hand, the Germans I meet in my travels, by sharp contrast, are very fine people; I am eager to help them, as I might, to ensure the flourishing of their particular native European form and ways; as well as to unburden them of undue guilt and foreign impositions. This generation had nothing to do with World War II, for better or worse. I am sure that there are sufficient many of them who see fit to participate in our mutual and discreet survivals as European nations and peoples.
I was ready to dive right-in with this frame of mind years, in fact decades, ago. One of the crucial issues obstructing this has been, and is, the absurd position of some self-proclaimed White Nationalists that we somehow need Hitler or to redeem Hitler. We need nothing of the kind. We need Europeans deeper and wiser. Let there be no mistake, those who insist upon Hitler and Nazism are Not White Nationalists.
Posted by DanielS on Sunday, April 20, 2014 at 01:37 AM in Activism, Anti-racism and white genocide, European Nationalism, Far Right, Liberalism & the Left, Marxism & Culture War, National Socialism
Along with White Leftism, The White Class and other useful theoretical tools that Jews abuse and obfuscate as they direct White identity into the foibles of the Right.
This discussion will have a fringe benefit of provoking and flushing-out those who are not truly concerned with our people.
This essay is to be something of a summing-up and clarification:
“You alone are uncontingent my friend. I would counsel epistemic humility”
Thus, in background to this essay:
Posted by DanielS on Thursday, February 6, 2014 at 07:42 PM in Activism, Anti-racism and white genocide, Awakenings, Ethnicity and Ethnic Genetic Interests, European culture, Far Right, Genetics & Human Bio-Diversity, Immigration and Politics, Journalism, Liberalism & the Left, Race realism, Social Sciences, The American right, The Proposition Nation
On 22 July, 2011, Israel commemorated the 65th anniversary of the King David Hotel’s bombing in Palestine, by exploding bombs in Oslo, killing 8, and shooting dead 69 on Utøya Island. Israelis picked Norway for the celebrations because she had increasingly become sympathetic toward Muslims and in favor of a Palestinian State. Professor Ola Tunander concurred that only a State-level entity equivalent has the capability of pulling off such an operation, and this wouldn’t be the Norwegian administration slaughtering relatives on Utøya Island. Tunander knows Israel did it, but to avoid the heat, hinted at it, saying that some have suggested it was Israel’s handiwork. Given Tunander’s academic credentials, the mainstream media decided to keep Tunander’s analysis and the Israeli condemnation of it out of the Anglosphere.
At first it wasn’t clear whether the mysterious individual blamed for the attacks, Anders Behring Breivik, was a scapegoat or patsy. But the cues were there though overlooked by many. One clue was Anders Breivik’s amazing beard, capable of changing within seconds.
Posted by R-news on Sunday, July 22, 2012 at 01:35 PM in European Nationalism, Far Right, Global Elitism, Liberalism & the Left, Marxism & Culture War, Media, New Right, Political analysis, Popular Culture, Psychology, Social liberalism, That Question Again, White Nationalism, World Affairs
Teasers aside, here’s my review of 2083: A European Declaration of Independence, and more. I’m not posting it below because I intend to revise it.
NO OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS, please, and stick to the facts and fact-based inference.
Posted by J Richards on Monday, September 5, 2011 at 08:18 PM in European Nationalism, Far Right, Islam & Islamification, Marxism & Culture War, Media, Political analysis, That Question Again, White Nationalism, World Affairs
It is four years ago today that I sat down to write a brief post under the heading Seven Seven, and followed it up a few days later with a longer account of my own tangential and highly tenuous contact with history.
A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since that day. If we are to believe our rulers, there have been scores and perhaps even hundreds of Islamic terrorist attacks that our (it is said) brave and professional security services have disrupted. Suspiciously few of these, however, have resulted in a prosecution.
In fact, suspicion seems to be the lasting product of 7/7. On the day that the memorial to that event was consecrated, more or less, the Daily Mail, having picked up yesterday’s snippet in the Guardian, was shouting from the rooftops that:
There is vanishingly little information given to back up the claim. A Hitler-idolising fruitcake named Martyn Gilleard, who was jailed last year, is the best they can come up with. Does that wash with the British public? Take a look at the recommendation figures on the comments to the Mail article.
For their part, Nationalists are deeply vexed. Nationalist bloggers have been quick to pour scorn on the story, and point out that it bears the imprint of the ubiquitous Gerry Gable of Searchlight, the Community Safety Trust, which is where the British Board of Deputies meets Mossad, and the Muslim Safety Forum, which is the interface for “British” Muslims with the police. But the worrying possibility exists that it signals the start of an aggressive police campaign against Nationalists. We shall see.
There is a moment, difficult to spot to be sure, when imperilment slips by some tenth or hundredth of a degree into something else ... something darker and doom-laden ... something from which escape is no longer possible. The elite effort if not to murder the children of Europe directly, then certainly to void the ties upon which their survival depends, has not yet reached that pivotal moment. Not in my opinion anyway. If it had, our little community would likely not be labouring over the creation of this rallying point. We would, I hope, have found other ways to fight, ways more fitting to the hour.
With this in mind - this consciousness of the special meaning of time - it is appropriate to remember that the fight has been fought at every stage. Liberalism, decadence, democracy, equality, capitalism, internationalism, Jewish self-advocacy in all its manifold guises ... these things have been critiqued by intellectuals throughout the 20th Century, and protested by activists since the flood began with the Windrush in June 1948.
Those who have fought before us were as strong in their persuasion as any Linderite, and no less pleased to shock. But such are the antecedents of our protest. There’s no point denying it.
Many of those brave, difficult people have paid a high price. Some have lost life itself, some their liberty, many their livelihoods. Some have lost their way or became disillusioned by the company they kept. Some have fought on faithfully, for, in truth, they can make no other accomodation with the world.
Today, on a thread at Laban’s ostensibly devoted to the trial of the man accused of the murder of Charlene Downes, one of these honourable men provided a potted history of his activism. I thought it was interesting and educational, so I am reproducing it here.
His thread-name is Veritas.
I think that this is a wonderful idea, and that the principle implicit in it should be extended further. Socialists should only teach the underclass, gay activists should only teach practising queens and black activists should only teach blacks. Multiculturalists should only teach genetically engineered race-less test-tube babies.
Molotov cocktails were thrown at the home of a Sudanese refugee widow and her seven children in Toowoomba early yesterday morning, heightening racial tensions in the city. Khamisa Abui and her children, aged 3 to 16, were sleeping at their rented house in Dalmeny St when they heard thumping on the front door. A neighbour across the road saw the flames just after midnight. “The flames were a metre high on the steps and the front porch and the door mat was alight at the front door,” he said.
The neighbour, who declined to be named, phoned the fire brigade and ran across the road and banged on the door to wake the family because he knew the children would be asleep. “I pulled the burning mat away from the door and looked for a hose but I couldn’t find one in the dark,” he said. “You could smell the petrol fumes, and there were soft drink bottles lying on the steps.”
Once roused, Mrs Abui brought water and the two put out the remains of the crude fire bombs before the fire brigade arrived. The neighbour said the arson attack on a family who had come from a war zone was malicious racism. “There were two adults and seven kids in there – it could have been a disaster,” he said. “Those people are coming from war-torn lands. I just put it down to a brain-dead hillbilly mentality.”
Speaking through an interpreter, Mrs Abui said she and her children had been frightened by the attack and she was mystified as to why her family had been targeted. “I have no enemies with white people. I have no idea why they don’t like us here. I came here because Australia is a safe place to be,” she said. Mrs Abui was widowed when her husband was killed in Sudan, and she fled with her children to Egypt where she applied to come to Australia.
They would have a message with much wider appeal if they left the Nazi crap out
Liddle is a pretty reasonable bloke a lot of the time. I think all the abuse is just a leadup to saying that the NF are right about the Muslims
John Tyndall, Britain’s most prominent neo-Nazi for the best part of 40 years, was found dead in his home last week. If it is true that every man’s death diminishes us, then it is perhaps also true this particular death diminishes us slightly less than most. Frankly, speaking for myself, I feel fairly undiminished by it.
I use the term “neo-Nazi” with scrupulous care, not as an inaccurate, blanket term of abuse. Tyndall, you see, had a great deal of time for Adolf Hitler and not much time at all for the Jews. He had pictures of Hitler on his walls at home, just as you and I might have pictures of Angelina Jolie.
The founder of the British National Party John Tyndall has been found dead at his home, aged 71. The controversial former leader of the right-wing BNP was described as an “excellent chap with an analytical mind” by party colleagues. Mr Tyndall, once chairman of the National Front and who was facing race hate charges, was discovered at his home in Hove, East Sussex, by his wife.
The post below is crossposted from Dissecting Leftism
I seem to be doomed to challenging conventional ideas about the nature of the political spectrum—most notably in that I often point out that Hitler was a Leftist. I also however, have done a thorough empirical examination (via survey research) of the libertarian idea that the political spectrum is two dimensional—and found that the evidence is against that as well. I now think I have a third rebellion to undertake. I think that the term “Far Right” is a misnomer altogether. The Far Right certainly does not describe Hitler and the Fascists but I don’t think it even describes accurately the present-day racist groups who tend to attract that label. I think that the people so called are only another flavour of the Far Left. The so-called Far Right may say that they are against “Jews” whereas the Far Left say they are against “Zionists” but both are talking about essentially the same people. And even the “Anti-Zionist” mask of the Left tends to slip rather readily to reveal the real Jew-hatred underneath.
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