Cat Officially Debagged

Posted by Desmond Jones on November 09, 2006, 06:31 PM | #

Evidence that Alon Ziv’s miscegenation propaganda is not so insane?

The whole introgression thing seems very interesting vis-a-vis the earlier Ziv discussion at MR. It appears the anthropology community has got their knickers in a not over potential evidence that may show interbreeding enhanced human fitness by enhancing human intelligence. However, the advantage only accrued one way with introgression resulting in the extinction of the poor old caveman, arguably at the hands of his human kissing cousins, or so says Bruce Lahn.

“Finding evidence of mixing is not all that surprising. But our study demonstrates the possibility that interbreeding contributed advantageous variants into the human gene pool that subsequently spread. This implies that the evolution of human biology has been affected by the contribution of advantageous genetic variants from archaic relatives that we have replaced or even killed off,” he said.

Posted by James Bowery on November 09, 2006, 07:26 PM | #

Yes Alon Ziv will crow mightily so as to drown out the more rational voices pointing to the fact that:

1) This may be the tip of the iceberg in terms of stuff we don’t know about the unique value of Europoids, and,

2) The race replacement deprived us of the Neanderthal has now deprived us of much valuable information about how we came to be who we are.

Both of these argue against hybrid supremacist justifications for race replacing Europoids.

Posted by Svyatoslav Igorevich on November 10, 2006, 12:30 AM | #

I don’t follow how this is an argument for miscegenation, any more than I subscribe to “miscegenation is miscegenation is miscegenation.”

Unless of course by miscegenation, Ziv actually meant miscegenation with cavemen, which case those Geico fellas should be expecting lots of calls soon.

Hell, I’m open to the idea of miscegenation, at least in principle, if the benefits to and from the proposed players are proven beyond a reasonable doubt, without pretending EGI doesn’t exist.  In a few centuries, after many generational studies, maybe the idea will make sense.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 10, 2006, 02:14 AM | #

The Negro-Euro interspecies miscegenation experiment has already taken place spontaneously on a large scale over long time periods in various places, failing to produce a result superior to Euros or even their equal.   

I don’t understand Desmond’s comment in which he talks about “potential evidence that may show interbreeding enhanced human fitness by enhancing human intelligence.”  “Interbreeding” wasn’t what enhanced human intelligence, otherwise interbreeding with a race of microcephalics would’ve enhanced it.  What enhanced it, so the claim goes, was acquistion of a gene the Neanderthals had that is known to somehow promote brain development.
What intelligence-enhancing gene do Negroes have that we lack, Desmond?  Quite the contrary, didn’t you see in the abstract where Negroes demonstrate a relative paucity of this allele?  How would Prof. Ziv’s prescription improve us when the ones he wants us to marry lack the beneficial trait?  More likely his prescription would harm us—those stupid enough to listen to it.

Posted by Caveman on November 10, 2006, 07:03 AM | #

I was expecting that an attempt would be made to credit Zivism after the Neanderthal news came out.  This fails on several levels:

1. Just because a past action took place, and may have been adaptive at that time, does not logically imply that a pseudo-analogous action in the present or future will also be adaptive.  Each case must be examined on its merits, and considerations of EGI are first and foremost among that which needs to be considered.

2. The comparison is not really analogous.  On the one hand, we have low level mating between archaic humans and modern humans, in which certain archaic alleles survived the intervening millennia, presumably because they provided adaptive value.  The impact on the overall modern genome was small.  Note that Salter’s work allows for – openly stated in his book – replacement of less adaptive alleles by more adaptive ones (whether by intermarriage, reproductive technologies, etc.) as long as the net effect is adaptive to the receiving group.  AND, as long as this does not result in the displacement of the group via large scale immigration and/or admixture.  We have already discussed on this site how there seems to be no current advantage to miscegenation and/or mass immigration that in any way compensates for the negative effects on parental kinship or EGI.

On the other hand, Ziv promotes mass miscegenation, with no concern for parental kinship or EGI whatsoever, not to introgress specific alleles, but to produce a new race of thoroughly admixed hybrids that would replace the original native stocks.  How that is adaptive to the natives is not made clear.

3. Note that the outcome of archaic-modern mixing was that the modern newcomers became better adapted to the environment of the archaic natives, possibly assisting in the complete extinction of the natives.  This does not exactly advertise itself as an adaptive analogous strategy for white natives, so as to heighten the competitive value of the newcomer competition by giving them white genes.  Note that most of the African-American leadership – including some of the most anti-white types – have considerable white admixture and, hence, heightened intelligence.  Cui bono?  On the site “Bitter Asian Males”, one of this anti-white website’s bloggers is a half-white Eurasian mix.  Cui bono?

4. It is also possible that the moderns would have replaced the archaics eventually without the admixture, meaning that their EGI was decreased for nothing.  Either way, the process harmed either the archaics alone, or both the archaics and the moderns, depending on whether modern expansion was or was not dependent on the introgression.

5. As a final note to point 1, remember that past admixture does not in any way obviate the genetic interests of a current ‘admixed’ population.  Every population has interests in its own continuity, independent of how it came into existence.  All of the objections to Ziv’s ideas stand undiminished; it is up to him to explain how current and future inter-racial mixing more than compensates for the genocidal effects on genetic interests – as well as the devastating effects on kinship – ancient inter-species events are not relevant (apart from the fact that differences in archaic-modern admixture have created differences in the current races that make them even more unique than previously thought – and thus enhances the arguments AGAINST Ziv’s ideas).

Posted by Joker on November 10, 2006, 08:02 AM | #

“Lahn said it is not yet clear what advantage the D allele gives the human brain. ” Not yet clear? It gives Europeans greater intelligence, duh! Next time someone calls you a Neanderthal, take pride in it.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on November 10, 2006, 11:54 AM | #

Joker, they had to add that sentence in the article because right before it they said that Negroes don’t have the allele as much.  They couldn’t leave people thinking to themselves, “So that’s why Negroes are less intelligent!”  They had to immediately create a smoke screen for P.C.‘s sake.

A link to the article is here, on the right at the words “Full text (PDF).”  Prof. Hawks discusses the subject here.  Hawks is not always a good expositor—his prose, or his explanatory powers, or whatever it is, don’t produce clear explanations half the time.  It’s murky and you have to read lots of it five times to understand his points.  But if you have even slight knowledge of molecular biology and are willing to re-read it until you get it, you can understand his stuff perfectly.  Watch out:  his political correctness has a way of sneaking up on you in odd places.  But at least he makes the effort to discuss and teach, and for that he deserves credit.

Prof. Ziv’s stuff isn’t science as much as it is Jewish salivating over the prospect of helping to rid the world of an age-old and loathed ethno-racial rival (Euros) by encouraging its members to mate with Negroes.  Ziv’s “book” is politics, not science, and will influence only those among the Euro races whose eyes don’t line up with the holes in their faces (who can’t see, in other words).  (I put book in quotes because it’s a Jewish pro-genocide tract, not a book properly so-called.)

Posted by Desmond Jones on November 10, 2006, 02:23 PM | #

This does not exactly advertise itself as an adaptive analogous strategy for white natives, so as to heighten the competitive value of the newcomer competition by giving them white genes.

That was the point I was trying to make, obviously not very well.

Thank you Caveman for making that point clear.

Posted by Retew on November 13, 2006, 07:07 AM | #

I incline to the the view expressed by Stan Gooch, that the Neanderthals were not destroyed by the younger Cro-Magnon culture, but were incorporated into the culture through interbreeding.

Here’s an extract from one of his more recent books, “The Dream Culture of the Neanderthals;”

“A number of long standing beliefs and superstitions show how the ideas that dominated the lives of our ancestors still have a powerful influence on us today. The disturbing power attributed to the number thirteen, the positive influence of the number seven and the comfort offered by the admonition ‘knock on wood’ all betray the enduring presence of our most ancient ancestors: the Neanderthals.

The blending of the disparate influences of the lunar, matriarchal Neanderthals and the solar, patriarchal Cro-Magnons may explain the contradictory impulses and influences that have generated human conflict for millennia. In fact, the author suggests that the caste system in India may have been constructed to utilise the strengths of both lunar and solar cultures and to minimise the conflict between the two. There is evidence that direct descendents of the moon-worshipping, dream-cultivating Neanderthal race are still living in Central Asia today. While their physical descendants may be almost extinct, the influence of Neanderthal occult wisdom remains strong and can be found throughout history among witches, kabbalists, the Knights Templar, Rosicrucians and even in Christianity.”

Posted by Retew on November 13, 2006, 07:10 AM | #

More on Stan Gooch;

The following is an extract from an article by Stan Gooch that
was commissioned by Boris Johnson for The Spectator:

——————————————————————————
Very briefly here, my own proposals in respect of Neanderthal
life (based on a study of these matters over some forty years)
are that Neanderthal society was matriarchal and completely
promiscuous, led by women and driven by sex-exactly as is the
case with the recently discovered bonobos pygmy chimpanzees of
Africa. Life was communal (we can interject the word
‘commune-ism’ here).

Neanderthal evolved originally in bush or jungle conditions,
hence his shortness (classic Neanderthal males in particular
were a mere average 5’ 4’’ in height) and was also
near-sighted as appropriate to this environment. And
importantly, predominantly left-handed (for reasons too
complex to summarise here).

Cro-Magnon certainly evolved on the open plains, hence his
tallness. (Average height of Cro-Magnon males was originally
calculated to be 6’ ‘’-though the more accepted figure today
is 5’ 10’‘.) He developed pair-bonding and lived with one
partner for life, on a defined small piece of territory
adjacent with other similar pairs. (Thus the gibbon
communities of today are actually the perfect model for
suburbia.) He was appropriately long-sighted, and
right-handed.

The above statements are to an extent a matter for debate.
What follows is not-and is readily testable in respect of the
items listed. Some of these items have in fact already been
formally investigated and confirmed. My own research supports
the remainder. It is quite clear that the left wing and the
Labour Party represent our Neanderthal side, while the right
wing and the Conservative Party represent our Cro-Magnon
ancestry. And so if Labour MPs and members (I stress members)
of the Labour Party were compared with Conservative MPs and
members of the Conservative Party then the former would show:

A greater incidence of the big toe being shorter than the
second toe. (All Neanderthal fossil feet and fossil footprints
have the big toe shorter than the second toe. All Cro-Magnon
fossil feet and fossil footprints show the big toe longer than
the second toe.)

Greater incidence of the so-called simian line in the palm of
the hand. (The simian line is a single division across the
centre of the palm, which all apes have but most humans do
not. The norm for humans is two lines-the so-called head and
heart lines.)

A larger cerebellum. Greater incidence of the pyknic body
type and a lower incidence of the athletic body type. A
higher incidence of left-handedness. A lower incidence of
male pattern baldness. Greater incidence of prominent
eyebrows (including eyebrows which meet in the middle) and
brow ridges. A greater number of offspring (i.e. higher
fertility). Higher incidence of clinical neurosis and a
lower incidence of clinical psychosis. Higher incidence of
short-sightedness and a lower incidence of
long-sightedness. Better night vision. Greater
susceptibility to hypnosis. Greater proportion of sleeping
time spent in dreaming time. Higher incidence of
‘drop-out’ behaviours (sleeping rough, alcoholism,
unemployment, drug addiction, etc.). Shorter average
height. Lower average IQ.

These same differences would also be shown when members of
religious organisations were compared with members of
scientific institutions; when southern Europeans were compared
with northern Europeans; when eastern Europeans were compared
with western Europeans; when Welsh were compared with English;
when Northern Ireland Catholics were compared with Northern
Ireland Protestants; when members of the Untouchable caste
were compared with members of the Brahmin caste; when short
individuals were compared with tall individuals.

More here: http://www.aulis.com/twothirds2.htm