Debunking a racialist myth about the genetic variation between dog breeds

Posted by seawolf on July 28, 2010, 10:58 PM | #

It’s gene expression!  Look for the epigenetic factors between races.

The human genome has not even been sequenced, with many stretches still unread.  And then there is the epigenetic factors which control when, how much, and the quality of the expression.  We haven’t even scratched the surface of genetics, so in the meantime, I’ll use my visual and empirical experiences to judge racial differences.

Do you still stand by your prior post (Venter) in which you mention a 98.4% relatedness between randomly chosen humans considering SNPS, indels, and CNV (i.e., on par with 98.5%  chimp/human differences) ?

Posted by Dasein on July 29, 2010, 05:17 AM | #

Yes, of course I stand by that post.  That is the best current estimate we have.  Do you know of another?

The last I heard, the estimate of chimp/human similiarity was ~96%, and this will certainly go down again when chimp and human genomes sequenced at the level of detail in that Pang paper are compared.  And if and when sequencing technology permits the complete sequencing of those regions that are currently problematic, this will go down even further.

Posted by asdf on July 29, 2010, 08:53 AM | #

Dasein,

You appear to be fixated on Lewontin’s fallacy, and unable to move on. Otherwise I cannot explain your reducing everything to it.

Posted by Dasein on July 29, 2010, 09:27 AM | #

No, I’m debunking a myth prevalent in racialist circles.

Posted by asdf on July 29, 2010, 10:26 AM | #

Dog breeds are not by any means “much more genetically diverse than human races,” and that does not follow from within≬apportionment of variance or such meaningless statistical drivel.

Posted by Dasein on July 29, 2010, 01:29 PM | #

Is your objection to the use of “much,” or Fst and AMOVA?  Do you think those measures are completely meaningless?  Let’s see the papers showing human races have more genetic variation than dog breeds.

Posted by FB on July 29, 2010, 09:07 PM | #

Is Dasein channelling Tim Wise? Now that he has debunked that racist myth, it’s important for him not to rest on his laurels! What a nut.

Posted by seawolf on July 29, 2010, 11:46 PM | #

Dasein,

Thanks for your posts.  We learn a lot from them.

FB,

Lighten up!

Posted by Dasein on July 30, 2010, 12:19 AM | #

Thank you, Seawolf.

Posted by asdf on July 30, 2010, 06:03 PM | #

Is there any way to PM here, or for GW to give you my mail addy?

Posted by Guessedworker on July 30, 2010, 06:36 PM | #

Send your mail for my attention through the contact button and I will pass it on.

Posted by alex zeka on July 30, 2010, 07:00 PM | #

So, in dogs the variation is 35% (31.1+3.8) and in humans its just under half that (15%=10%+5%). Whilst this is of course crude and some gene variations matter more than others, etc. but that does mean that the difference between a white and a black is just under half that between a bulldog and a chihuahua. Which basically in layman’s speak is fuckin’ huge.

Thanks to Dasein for pointing out the error, especially as the revised version is still a powerful race realist argument.

Posted by Dasein on August 10, 2010, 08:38 AM | #

asdf,

You’re right- I’ve conflated genetic variance and genetic diversity.  There seems to be confusion in the literature on this as well.  For example, Holsinger and Weir, in a recent NRG review stated that:

For example, recent analyses based on more than 370 short tandem repeat loci1 (microsatellites) and 600,000 SNPs2 suggest that only 5–10% of human genetic diversity is accounted for by genetic differences among populations from major geographical regions. These results indicate that there are far more similarities among geographically distinct human populations than differences. But what does it mean to say that 5–10% of diversity is accounted for by differences among populations, and how is this figure derived? The short answer is that the estimate of FST among human populations sampled from these regions is 0.05 for the microsatellite data and 0.10 for the SNP data.

The Wikipedia entry for human genetic variation also conflates the terms:

Human genetic variation is the genetic diversity of humans and represents the total amount of genetic characteristics observed within the human species.

I’m not sure exactly how AMOVA is calculated, but for Fst it seems genetic variability might be a more appropriate term for what it’s measuring.  Or genetic differentiation, which is another thing Holsinger and Weir say it measures.  I know Jost has been critical of Fst, saying that it is not a true measure of genetic differentiation.  Whether it’s the best measure or not is perhaps not so important for the point I’m trying to make here, though, which is that, by published accounts, dog breeds are more differentiated than are human races.  And, according to commonly-used measures in population genetics, there is more genetic variation between dog breeds than between human races.  I think those are fair statements, even if there’s some debate as to whether Fst and AMOVA are appropriate measures of these things.

Posted by gagoonies on October 12, 2010, 03:53 PM | #

I understand & agree with what you are attempting to communicate.

Race is real. It is a biological extension of family, those expressing traits.

Some are so lowly & enslaved by the dogmatic lies of their sickly churches. That they feel the need to lie. They feel the need to deny all truths which do not agree with their views. In order to make themselves feel good about their ugly behavior they deny the plain to see existence of race. These creatures are waging open genocide daily against whites.

Destabilizing the nations we build. They seek to destroy the biodiversity of man. That we all might be as ugly as they. Their twisted biased minds cry that race does not exist because their desires demand it. Their desires are based on selfish greed & wishful thinking.

The reason they behave in such terrible ways. Is because they know ultimately they are defeated. They sense how alien we are to them.

It has nothing to do with governments. It has everything to do with the individual walking through the street. That is where the untelevised revolution takes place daily. Will you upon being confronted by a foe fall away in fear of your attacker or will you stand your ground to fight for what is yours.

The negro should be expelled from all our territories. It is selfish of our generations not to do the work that must be done to preserve our legacy. Our apathy is destroying our world. We must act to defend ourselves. Our governments obviously no longer have our populations best interests in heart. They give away what countless lives such as ours were sacrificed ritually for. They give away our futures.

All you must do is live life to its fullest to defeat them. The muggles want you to cower in fear of them. They dont want you shopping in the stores, walking down the streets, and playing in the parks they use. They want you away from them. They want control.  Wrestle it from them. Compete with them.

Get right up in their ugly faces & explain away all the lies which support their existence. To humor their propaganda is to stab oneself in the heart to cease its beating. May your heart beat vibrantly. Should you find yourself grabbed by these beasts, then turn & grab them back. Go bump in night. Let them know they don’t call the shots, compete with them. That these traits of race might continue to exist in the future.

When you fight them. Do so to kill. Their acts of defiance should never be tolerated.