More praise for Razib Khan of Gene Expression blog (GNXP)

Razib Khan is the designer and chief administrator of Gene Expression blog (gnxp.com).  Lately, he has been advertising his availability for web development using PHP (hypertext pre-processor language) and writing well-informed and well-reasoned pieces on genetics or public policy.  Anyone thinking of hiring Razib to do such work had better read this entry first.

Here is a screen capture of Razib soliciting writing work (Jan 9, 2006):

image

Razib has not added a comma between knowledgeable and well-reasoned.  Besides, well-informed is preferable to knowledgeable here.  Also, it is unnecessary for him to add “print” to print opinion since it is obvious that he is soliciting writing work.  Razib talks about “two previous examples,” but his prior writings can only have been written previously, i.e., previous is unnecessary here.  Razib forgot to add “in” in “more interested book reviews,” and talks about “long-form pieces,” a strange phrase for lengthy essays.  Now, how would someone with reasonable language proficiency write what Razib has written about?

Here is how:

Need well-informed, well-reasoned arguments concerning genetics or public policy?

I am your man!

Two examples of my publications, both somewhat anecdotal, follow. I’m currently more interested in book reviews, op-eds and lengthy essays.

The statement above says what Razib is trying to express in a much better manner and using 6 fewer words.  The screen capture above is a succinct sample of several common themes in Razib’s writings: verbosity, poor grammar and poor editing.  This is not all though.  His writings are also replete with misspellings; unnecessary use of complex words, undoubtedly to make himself appear to be well-informed; and obfuscations and incoherence, which reflect his poor understanding of the underlying matters that he is addressing.

It could be pointed out that although Razib’s writing skills are not up to par, he possesses good knowledge of genetics.  However, Razib’s knowledge of genetics is good only when compared to the average American, which is far from a complement.  Geneticists would find many of Razib’s writings on genetics curious. 

Sometime in 2005, Razib and Jason Malloy were interviewed on evolution and genetics by Infidelguy and the radio transcript is available to registered users.

Razib has an effeminate voice, just as I had suspected, but this is hardly relevant here.  What was interesting is that Razib mentioned that there were around 45,000 genes in humans, which is a way-outdated estimate, and the present estimate, which predates Razib’s appearance on Infidelguy’s show by about two years, is 20-25 thousand genes.

In an entry titled “Beyond the Punnett Square, part n,” Razib wrote:

The only moral is one should go beyond the Punnett Square abstraction where phenotypes have simple (monogenic) causes.

Ignoramus Razib did not realize that a Punnett Square illustration of the 6-loci example that he uses, though complex, would show exactly what he described in his article.  There are many other equivalent examples reflecting his ignorance.

In an entry titled “8th grade math for the rest of us,” Razib wrote:

Godless & I never have gotten around to a “GNXP FAQ.” The reasons are rooted in human psychology, this weblog is a hobby, a pastime, and writing an FAQ requires forethought and effort we simply never felt we could spare!

This statement is nonsense.  Razib is a prolific writer, and he writes so much that one can be fairly confident that he does not have a real job.  The reason Razib and Godless have never gotten around to writing a FAQ is because writing a decent FAQ for GNXP content would require a summarizing ability that is beyond the intelligence of these individuals.  It can be clearly seen that Razib is much weaker when it comes to summarizing journal papers than more-easy-to-read books, which shows his inadequate understanding of genetics.

It would be foolish to rely on Razib for an opinion on social policy recommendations that follow from the emerging understanding of genetics, not only for the aforementioned reasons, but also because Razib could not even bring himself to admit that whites have [genetically] higher intelligence than blacks [and also Bangladeshis like himself] on the Infidelguy’s show. 

Although Razib is not up to par when it comes to writing or knowledge of genetics, he is perhaps a decent web designer.  I don’t know how well he programs in PHP, but there is a clue as to how elegant a programmer he is: his website.  His website uses XHTML, simple javascript and feeds from blogger, all being much simpler to handle than PHP.  An examination of XHTML well-formedness of gnxp.com on Jan 9, 2006 revealed 519 errors!  Talk about piss-poor coding!   

image

None of the admins at majorityrights.com work in the field of computer software, yet XHTML validation errors at MR are at most only a handful.  For example, check the number of XHTML errors in the page that you see before you right now.

The site layout and all side bar content at MR is valid XHTML (would validate as XHML 1.0 strict and XHTML 1.1); the sources of error are poor coding by the commentators and some bloggers.  On the other hand, the piss-poor coding example at gnxp.com that I have mentioned above excludes the comments section.  It is inevitable that the commentators will occasionally poorly code XHTML, but the bloggers can surely be made to learn proper coding, and I will get around to educating MR bloggers eventually.

Apart from piss-poor coding, Razib’s site layout is poorly optimized for search engine friendliness; see a sample source code of GNXP taken on Jan 9, 2006.  Instead of calling CSS and javascript from outside the template, he has them inside the template and even though he has a simple two column layout, he uses a table to structure the main content instead of divs.  Additionally, the links to the comments sections (by Haloscan) disappear in several browsers if javascript is disabled; it is sometimes necessary to disable javascript for security reasons.  Some great design!

I don’t think that I need to say much more about how well Razib writes and how suitable he is for writing on genetics and social policy or web designing.  His shallowness shows in his redirecting HTTP referrers from MR to a filthy porn site showing mentally ill white women having sex with Negroes; he can’t win a debate with us and this is the best he can do.     
   
Anyway, I request readers to post a link to this entry at their websites and various blogs and forums, in a manner similar to the following:

Cool information on Razib Khan of GNXP; Gene Expression blog.

This way, this entry will earn a high Google rank for searches on Razib.

Posted by J Richards on Monday, January 9, 2006 at 09:18 PM in Blogs & BloggingJournalismOh Tempora, Oh Mores
Comments (136) | Tell a friend

Comments:

1

Posted by Svigor on January 09, 2006, 10:11 PM | #

Ouch.

Let me know if I’m guilty of the poor formatting or coding you referred to.

2

Posted by sfjf on January 09, 2006, 10:15 PM | #

Almost all of Razib’s old posts have comma-splices. He uses them less frequently now, but still often.

3

Posted by dg on January 09, 2006, 10:24 PM | #

“I want to note something, Schonborn uses Will Provine as an case of someone who connects evolution to atheism.”—Razib, 01/06/06

“That is why I shrugged off the declaration by a GNXP reader that they could point to many instances of an ideological bias by those who claim that evolutionary theory invalidates theism, the absolute number is far less relevant than the proportion, and I am skeptical that most people who study and examine evolutionary theory in a scientific context really have a deep interest in the intersection between their science and philosophical or socio-ethical concerns.”—Razib, 01/06/06

4

Posted by Dwraj on January 09, 2006, 11:14 PM | #

Sometime in 2005, Razib and Jason Malloy were interviewed on evolution and genetics by Infidelguy and the radio transcript is available to registered users.

You mean: Sometime in 2005, Razib and Jason Malloy were interviewed on evolution and genetics by Infidelguy, and the radio transcript is available to registered users.

5

Posted by Svigor on January 09, 2006, 11:33 PM | #

Well, if you want to nitpick he misspelled compliment too (I’m sure there’s a more accurate word than “misspelled” here); then again he isn’t hawking his writing on the ‘Net, now is he?

Razib’s command of written English is piss-poor (or at least his standards are), and digging up the errors of others won’t change that.

6

Posted by Al Ross on January 10, 2006, 01:46 AM | #

Razib Khan is, by the low average IQ standards of the Indian sub-continent in general and the even lower standards of its Muslim population in particular, curiously impressive. He is, however, merely a simulator of Western knowledge and culture and one might be forgiven for viewing his valiant efforts in the same light as the English wit Dr Johnson viewed the offerings of women preachers - “Sir,a woman preaching is like a dog walking on his hind legs. It is not done well, but you are surprised to find it done at all”.

7

Posted by Tournament of Champions on January 10, 2006, 02:40 AM | #

He should do himself and readers a favor by book-reviewing Strunk & White.

“Omit needless words. Vigorous writing is concise.”

8

Posted by Voice on January 10, 2006, 10:25 AM | #

Isn’t quite odd that paleos over at American Conservative hire a “person of Color” to write an article for them in the hope that they too can seduce the left and the neocons that they are respectable conservatives. wink

Message to paleocons and all other conservatives trying to be respectable:  The neocons, leftists and all political ethnic groups have issued the war call and in the end their will be no white culture, people or culture that will be allowed to stand after the war is won.

This is war you idiots.

9

Posted by Johannes Climacus on January 10, 2006, 01:30 PM | #

What is not war? Even discourse is only the continuation of war by other means. Thank you, Alexandr Dugin, for quoting Heraclitus and teaching me.

War is the “universal parent, that green night/ Teaching a fusky alphabet.”

Two independent clauses can be separated by a full stop, a semicolon, or a comma followed by a coordinating conjunction.

10

Posted by Calvin on January 10, 2006, 06:03 PM | #

My God! I’m too ashamed to continue posting.

11

Posted by Johannes Climacus on January 10, 2006, 06:45 PM | #

Calvin, if you are responding to my post, what triggered your shame? Which paragraph? The Heraclitus, the Wallace Stevens or the grammar? Consider that your “shame” is a rebuke to me; should not we instead encourage each other, in light of what is to come? Please, I beg you, be reconciled, and more, be glad that we are on the same side.

12

Posted by Calvin on January 10, 2006, 07:15 PM | #

Johannes, rest easy friend, I only meant that your post is a troubling reminder of my own grammatical shortcomings. I am very glad that we are on the same side.

13

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 10, 2006, 07:54 PM | #

Heraclitus

by William Johnson Cory

They told me, Heraclitus, they told me you were dead,
They brought me bitter news to hear and bitter tears to shed.
I wept as I remembered how often you and I
Had tired the sun with talking and sent him down the sky.

And now that thou art lying, my dear old Carian guest,
A handful of grey ashes, long, long ago at rest,
Still are thy pleasant voices, thy nightingales, awake;
For Death, he taketh all away, but them he cannot take.

14

Posted by Seb on January 10, 2006, 09:10 PM | #

Ok, I admit I haven’t been following this particular interforum quarrel very closely

I’m surprised by the racor that seems to exist here

Even if you disagree on longterm aims, GNXP and MR both want to curb immigration into Western countries - surely that’s something that ought to be encouraged?

15

Posted by Svyatoslav Igorevich on January 10, 2006, 10:29 PM | #

That’s not enough Seb.  Razib & co. want “cognitive elitism” to inform immigration policy.  That’s race-replacement.

16

Posted by J Richards on January 11, 2006, 12:15 AM | #

Dwraj,

Sorry about the comma and the incorrect spelling of compliment; these problems could have been avoided by carefully rereading what I had written instead of a simple spelling check and glossing over the contents prior to publishing it.  However, I have never claimed to be a decent writer, unlike Razib.  The last time I learned grammar was in high school.  Besides, if I were writing something to solicit writing work, I would edit it much more carefully than my normal level of editing prior to posting at MR.

Svigor,

I will e-mail a note about correct XHTML formatting to all MR bloggers.

Seb,

You will want to read this comment to understand what prompted me to come up with this entry.  My purpose is partly to embarrass Razib and partly to help reduce the multi-billion-dollar annual loss due to improper software coding.  People should think twice before hiring piss-poor coders like Razib to do software work.

Somethings over at gnxp.com are good reads and we appreciate them.  This is why I have no wish to delete links to gnxp at MR; all I have done is to redirect these links through an intermediate page to strip MR HTTP referrers or else MR readers who click on the gnxp links at MR would typically be routed to a filthy porn page, thanks to Razib.

17

Posted by Guessedworker on January 11, 2006, 03:59 AM | #

Seb,

GNXP is a worthwhile resource and there is much of interest to be found there and much with which we can agree.  The conflict between it and us stems solely from the aggression with which Razib and, particularly, godless, pursue their own EGI.  That pursuit includes the usual denial that white Americans also have an EGI and an equal human right to pursue it.  If they would give ground on that, and not be so opportunistic in jumping on the anti-WN bandwagon when it suits them, we could view them very much more favourably.

My own fall-out with godless was over the fact that, in Europe at least, there will come a point when the natives have had it with being dragooned into minority status.  I made the point in various ways in reply, basically, to the assumption that European peoples everywhere are finished and our ineluctable fate is to be marginalised by brown and yellow peoples, cognitively advantaged or otherwise.  At GNXP resistance turns out to be verboten, which is sad.

When I announced that I was quitting the GNXP threads godless’ final twist of the knife was to instruct me not to link to them in future.

In the interim we have had some intellectual contests with them on Salterism which I do believe we won, and that hasn’t accomodated us to them, either.

I think most MRers rather admire Razib in some ways and, like you, would much prefer that our two blogs adopt a more live-and-let-live attitude.  That, however, is up to Razib, not us.

18

Posted by jonjayray on January 11, 2006, 07:22 AM | #

I deplore this attack on Razib—particularly from someone who does not know the difference between “complement” and “compliment”

If you took note of your Christian culture you would be forgiving, not attacking. 

You cannot expect Razib to think much of people who regard him as a member of an inferior race.  I DON’T regard Indians as inferior and Razib and I have always had a perfectly amicable corerespondence.

No doubt Razib has been less than Christian in some of his responses but given his Muslim background that is perhaps understandable.

People here have no such excuse

I think GNXP does an excellent job of communicating the importance of genetics and wish it all success.

19

Posted by Guessedworker on January 11, 2006, 08:44 AM | #

John, the aggression is Razib’s, not ours.  JR’s action is defensive and appropriate.  And as far as I am aware nobody has claimed that Razib belongs to an inferior race, but a different one with its own distinct interests which we recognise - a recognition we would like to see reciprocated.  In what way do you find this offensive?

20

Posted by Kubilai on January 11, 2006, 09:30 AM | #

John, JR simply smote the heathen which is most certainly allowed in the Bible. 

Don’t tell me you do not know what the Bible says, do you John? 

Also, how Christian is if of you when you say things like “you find blacks deplorable and lowly”?  I paraphrase, yet that is quite close to some of things you’ve written.

21

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 11, 2006, 10:35 AM | #

“And as far as I am aware nobody has claimed that Razib belongs to an inferior race,”  (—GW)

I couldn’t believe my eyes on reading the part of John’s comment that elicited that from GW.  I’d have thought that by now he understood.  But no, GW had to explain things to him in that reply.  Amazing.  In his mind the only thing, the single solitary thing, motivating whites to question their own forced race-replacement by their own governments is white supremacism.  If he thinks that at this late date—if he’s still stuck in that filthy left-wing/Marxist/Wall-Street/Tranzi-Capitalist lie after all that’s been posted at MR.com for more than a year, I don’t think there’s any hope of getting him to see truth on the issue.  John is blessed with a great intellect and crystal-clear sight but where this particular issue is concerned he’s blind as a bat and, I’m afraid, will simply have to be ignored in future, as the likes of Sam, Simon, and June Gordon are properly simply ignored, when he spouts know-nothing nonsense such as he spouted in that last comment.  It’s unfortunate.  But it’s gone beyond the point where there’s yet more to be gained by replying to him if only for the benefit of the readers—they’ve already seen this stuff a million times.  He’s the only one who still doesn’t get it.  So, spout away on white supremacism all you want, John—I for one won’t waste my breath replying to you any more, on that topic.  On that, you’re blind, blind as a bat, and not really any better than Mark Steyn who is pathetic and contemptible.

As for Razib, as I’ve always said in the past here, he and Jason Molloy never behaved toward me as other than complete gentlemen.  The same cannot be said of GC who in banning me the second time acted like some sort of sick psychotic pig.  I haven’t set foot in that pig sty in three years so I don’t know what the situation there is currently—but when I used to go there, GC very definitely maintained it as a site where it was always open season on whites and woe betide any white who dared defend white existence against arrogant, white-hating yellows who called for their overthrow and slow genocide.  For those whites who don’t wish to have blatant brown and yellow anti-whitism dished up continually with no defense of whites permitted, simply read Science and Nature—and you’ll be a lot better informed, to boot.

22

Posted by Steve Edwards on January 11, 2006, 11:46 AM | #

Perhaps somebody can show me the line, chapter and book in the Bible where it says “Thine Race Shalt Be Race Replaced”. Can’t say I’ve seen it myself, but I’m sure John’s theological expertise will tease out the offending verse.

23

Posted by Svigor on January 11, 2006, 03:29 PM | #

Surely that wasn’t JJR, but rather an imposter, or if not perhaps he was having a bit of fun?

24

Posted by Svigor on January 11, 2006, 03:34 PM | #

Also, it’s possible that much of the bad blood between the two groups is traceable directly to GC; he often appears rational, but then when pushed past his “ignore the merits of the racial nationalism issue at all cost” position he turns into a stark raving loon.

I’m not exaggerating; I had a short email exchange with him where he acted like a real psycho and dredged up every loony strawman in the book.

25

Posted by Matra on January 11, 2006, 04:21 PM | #

If you took note of your Christian culture you would be forgiving, not attacking. 

No doubt Razib has been less than Christian in some of his responses but given his Muslim background that is perhaps understandable.

In other words (white) Christians should be doormats but everyone else should get a pass.

26

Posted by Matra on January 11, 2006, 04:49 PM | #

Slightly OT

A bestselling Indian book about call centre workers in India who have to deal with Americans contains the following:

Meanwhile, an instructor preparing trainees for the job scribbles a golden rule on the blackboard for handling difficult customers: 10=35.

“Remember, a thirty-five-year-old American’s brain and IQ is the same as a 10-year-old Indian’s brain ... Americans are dumb, just accept it. I don’t want anyone losing their cool during the calls…” the instructor tells a class.

Link

VDare has also had interesting articles about Asian arrogance towards whites.

27

Posted by Svigor on January 11, 2006, 05:45 PM | #

In other words (white) Christians should be doormats but everyone else should get a pass.

I think JJR was having a bit of fun (if it really was JJR); if not he seriously needs to take his meds.

28

Posted by Svigor on January 11, 2006, 06:18 PM | #

I deplore this attack on Razib—particularly from someone who does not know the difference between “complement” and “compliment”

This is an obvious ad hominem argument.

If you took note of your Christian culture you would be forgiving, not attacking.

This is an irrelevant argument (I’m sure there’s a precise term but it’s not worth looking up its taxonomy).

You cannot expect Razib to think much of people who regard him as a member of an inferior race.

This is a strawman argument.

I DON’T regard Indians as inferior and Razib and I have always had a perfectly amicable corerespondence.

This too is irrelevant (or perhaps not, since we know race-replacement, the main source of contention between MRniks and GNXPers, is no rub between JJR and Razib).

No doubt Razib has been less than Christian in some of his responses but given his Muslim background that is perhaps understandable.

This is both bizarre and irrelevant.

People here have no such excuse

This is both bizarre and irrelevant.

I think GNXP does an excellent job of communicating the importance of genetics and wish it all success.

This may or may not be true (I tend to agree), but it too is irrelevant; GNXP can be a useful site on HBD-realism and be run by someone allergic to concision and of low character.

I can only conclude that the person who posted under JJR’s name isn’t JJR, or that if it was JJR, he wasn’t in his right mind when he posted it.

29

Posted by Phil on January 11, 2006, 06:29 PM | #

Svigor,

That is a brutal dissection. I can’t believe an intelligent man like JJR would post rubbish like that.

My own suggestion, for what its worth, is as follows:

We shouldn’t link to GNXP. If we share a mutual dislike for each other, I think it is fair that we do not link to their site.

Having said that, it is a bizarre step for the supposed advocates of “open source” to take. There is no dearth of argument at GNXP about the uselessness of copyright. If that is the case, it certainly shows their pettiness and their hypocrisy to put in place porn re-directs for MR links in order to discourage us from linking. 

So obviously, as with liberals, those high minded boys engage in a lot of moral posturing which is rarely followed up with actions that are consistent with such posturing (or in this case in complete opposition to it). In this case posturing about “open source” running in complete opposition to their real actions.

As I have said in the past, it pays to think of where interests lie. It often explains the world better than fancy abstract theories.

30

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 11, 2006, 07:05 PM | #

“This is an irrelevant argument (I’m sure there’s a precise term but it’s not worth looking up its taxonomy).  (—Svigor, 10:18 PM)

The precise term is ignoratio elenchi.

31

Posted by John J Ray on January 11, 2006, 07:23 PM | #

LOL:

I expected some flak from my comment and I thank those who replied for their civility. 

But if this does not portray Razib as a member of an inferior race what does?

“Razib could not even bring himself to admit that whites have [genetically] higher intelligence than blacks [and also Bangladeshis like himself] on the Infidelguy’s show”

32

Posted by Guessedworker on January 11, 2006, 08:32 PM | #

But here the truth is not racist.  Our acknowledgement of the fact of still higher East Asian and Ashkenazic mean intelligence does not make us Chinese or Ashkenazic supremacists.  You know that.

Sorry, John, but you are allowing your personal sympathies for Razib and all those polite South Asian tenants to interfere with your judgement.

33

Posted by Svigor on January 11, 2006, 08:43 PM | #

But if this does not portray Razib as a member of an inferior race what does?

LOL.  You just won’t pay attention, will you?  Unqualified assertions of superiority or inferiority do not follow from assessments of different group IQ means.

I don’t think jewry is superior to European Christendom, just because it has a substantially higher group IQ mean.

FFS!  Why is it only people I’m arguing with bring up the supremacy/superiority argument?

34

Posted by Svigor on January 11, 2006, 09:11 PM | #

Thanks Scroob.

Here’s a useful one:
http://www.adamsmith.org/logicalfallacies/000601.php

35

Posted by J Richards on January 11, 2006, 09:18 PM | #

John,

I am well aware of the difference between complement and compliment, but since complement is a valid word, the spell check that I did prior to posting did not catch the error.  You yourself have incorrectly spelled correspondence.  You and I don’t seem to edit our pieces extra carefully prior to posting, but we still write better than Razib and do not display his arrogance. 

Speaking of Christian culture, the peaceful and forgiving nature of it today has not always been the case.  Christianity began as a pacifist religion but soon acquired a sordid history of persecuting pagan European populations and forcing them to convert upon pain of death.  Anyway, there is no need to bring Christianity into the picture here.

I am surprised that you have not deplored Razib’s behavior.  The redirect problem has apparently existed for quite a while.  Guessedworker told me yesterday that about 6 weeks ago, someone complained about GNXP links being directed to a porn site, but since Guessedworker uses an ISP that strips HTTP referrers, he was able to reach GNXP pages from MR and ignored the complaint.  The problem may have existed for much longer and there is no telling how many MR readers were directed to the filthy porn site.  I hope that you understand the reason for my anger.

Speaking of the notion of “racial inferiority,” it is surprising that in spite of your hatred of leftists, you have posted leftist nonsense.  I have no doubt that if whites and Bangladeshis were forced to live near naked in the tropics, the Bangladeshis would be much better off with respect to being sunburned.  Does this make the Bangladeshis a superior race?  It certainly does with respect to the specific scenario considered.  Similarly, the higher intellect of whites compared to Bangladeshis—which you have not been able to argue against in a previous debate we had—makes whites superior to Bangladeshis with respect to thriving in modern civilization.  Depending on the scenario considered, one race can be better off or worse of than another race, and this should not be construed in terms of overall superiority/inferiority.

36

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 11, 2006, 10:38 PM | #

Svigor, thanks for calling attention to that logical fallacy, “blinding with science.”  I hadn’t heard of that one before.  Knowing about it ought to be extremely useful.

37

Posted by friedrich braun on January 12, 2006, 01:49 AM | #

I’m surprised that the brownster Razib Khan (btw, I don’t have any qualms in plainly stating that I view East Indians and other sub-continentals as clearly inferior to White Europeans and their descendants) has time to seek work online. I thought that he spent most days and nights masturbating to interracial porn and fantasizing about miscegenating with blond women…blond women being his creepy obsession. Incidentally, I’ve seen pics of the perverted, sex-obsessed, and chronic masturbator in question online and his skin is darker than that of the typical American Negro. His facial feature are also Negroid or simian.

Finally, I brought this matter (the link to a hardcore interracial site by Razib Khan) to the attention of GW about 6 six weeks ago and not much was done about it then.

Why in the world MR would want to continue to link to gene expression after all that has transpired is beyond me.

38

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 12, 2006, 02:33 AM | #

“Finally, I brought this matter [...] to the attention of GW about 6 six weeks ago”  (—Friedrich Braun)

For the record, I also saw it six weeks ago—someone here, I forget who, posted a link in his comment to a GnXp article and the link led to a porn page.  I assumed at the time that it had gotten fixed. 

I just have to say that whoever over there did it is beyond pathetic.  (If it was Razib, that would surprise the hell out of me.)  I also am puzzled at John Ray’s seeming to gloss over the whole thing.  Is anyone here sabotaging their web-site?  No.  Then where the hell do they come off sabotaging ours in that way?  What happened—our traffic numbers have been creeping up and they got jealous?

39

Posted by Kubilai on January 12, 2006, 07:25 AM | #

I also am puzzled at John Ray’s seeming to gloss over the whole thing.

It is not puzzling to me, Fred.  John does a tremendous job throwing out unsubstantiated rubbish which are only his opinions and then never addresses the mountainous refutation of it that comes pouring in.  Unless we’re honoured with a one-liner similar to the one above.

John has a personality similar to several people I know, though will no longer associate with.  They are people who know the truth about a given subject, yet due to personal selfish conflict, will not admit the truth and try to argue AGAINST the truth.  If people cannot give me the most basic of civil discourse, that being honesty, then I have no use for such people.  John fits into that category with his Houdini-esqe contortions to make his sub-cons the best thing since sliced bread.

40

Posted by Fred Scrooby on January 12, 2006, 08:27 AM | #

I agree with you, Kub.  John seems somewhere along the line to have gotten badly burned by white yobs—maybe was bullied by them as a child growing up; maybe some drug-taking, pierced, green-and-purple-haired white yobs left one of his rental properties in a shambles or something (remember how he once described how he “threw a white tenant through a closed door” in one of his apartments).

41

Posted by Steve Edwards on January 12, 2006, 09:37 AM | #

But it’s not just sub-continentals. John is obsessed with Hispanics, even in the face of all the evidence as to their disastrous impact on the US, and even if it means having to completely contradict his stated position on illegal immigration for countries other than the US (such as Australia). I don’t think it’s a personal interest, unlike his “polite Indians who pay their rent on time” fetish. This is ideological, perhaps even a religious devotion. I’d say John literally pulls out his prayer mat five times a day, faces towards Mexico City (or perhaps it’s Rio de Janeiro), and worships Hispanics. I’ve no idea why he performs this ritual - we’ll have to leave this up to a committee of informed anthropologists and psychologists to analyse - because this is simply way beyond my own field of study. I’m sure they’ll have some idea, but there is no conceivable explanation within my academic competence.

42

Posted by Amalek on January 12, 2006, 09:11 PM | #

We certainly mustn’t use the language of inferiority and superiority a propos Razib’s kinsmen. We might merely confine ourselves to noting that a handful of Englishmen once journeyed several thousand miles to an outlandish country, and adapted to its sunlight and other unfamiliar conditions with such panache that they ruled it for quite a long time, inducing the indigenes to believe—wrongly, as events have shown—that the English way of doing things could and should be emulated by themselves.

The destination in question was once part of the Raj, was later known as East Pakistan, and is now called Bangladesh. It is one of the most poor and miserable nations on Earth, often appealing to the charitableness of its former masters. But at least they don’t have the white man’s problems with sunburn!

43

Posted by Ashram on January 14, 2006, 02:38 AM | #

You will want to read this comment to understand what prompted me to come up with this entry.  My purpose is partly to embarrass Razib and partly to help reduce the multi-billion-dollar annual loss due to improper software coding.  People should think twice before hiring piss-poor coders like Razib to do software work.

When I clicked the link JR provided, I noticed that the entry which linked to to the offending GNXP webpage was created by John Jay Ray. Apparently, Mr. Ray has quite the mischievous sense of humor, so are you sure GNXP linked to the porn sites rather than him? Since he apparently likes riling people up, posting porn links would be a good way to do it.

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Posted by lmfaoooooo on January 14, 2006, 03:04 AM | #

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?url=www.gnxp.com/

Traffic Rank for gnxp.com:  142,177

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?url=www.majorityrights.com/

Traffic Rank for majorityrights.com:  559,256

lower numbers are better, yahoo.com is #1

wow, a difference of 417, 079 in the rankings. you guys are getting owned D:

45

Posted by J Richards on January 14, 2006, 03:39 AM | #

Ashram,

John Ray has a strange sense of humor, but not a sick sense of humor.  I am not stupid enough to make a big hue and cry without thoroughly looking into the matter.  Right after I got the porn site, I checked the link through other browsers to rule out my first browser being hijacked by malware.  Then I copied and pasted the link that John had posted and tried to see if it is a valid address, and it was a valid gnxp url.  Then I checked some other gnxp links, including those that John could not possibly have edited, and got the porn site every time.  Finally, I pasted a gnxp link, routing it through an intermediate page, thereby stripping the MR HTTP referrer, and I was able to get the gnxp page, which confirmed the involvement of Razib.  Strictly speaking, someone other than Razib, such as Godless Capitalist, could have set up the porn redirect, but this person would have done it with the approval of Razib.  Therefore, Razib is rightly blamed for this filthy act.

lmfaoooooo,

Gnxp has been around a lot longer; our traffic keeps creeping up.  Besides, you cannot assume that a similar proportion of readers of GNXP and readers of MR use the Alexa toolbar.

46

Posted by tahir on February 01, 2006, 10:16 PM | #

“No doubt Razib has been less than Christian in some of his responses but given his Muslim background that is perhaps understandable.”

lame.

47

Posted by Jason on December 21, 2006, 06:34 PM | #

This post made me want to vomit.

48

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 21, 2006, 07:19 PM | #

Completely apart from the subject of this post, Jason, has anything GC’s done made you want to vomit?  What about GC’s rigging links from here to go to a porn page?  (Or is that just too cool in your eyes?)

49

Posted by Guessedworker on December 21, 2006, 07:30 PM | #

Don’t be ridiculous, Jason.  If you are of European lineage like us you are a pathetic excuse of a man.  Raise your eyes and look about you.  What do you see?  The wonderfulness of race-blind diversity?  The liberal miracle of self-authored individualism? 

Whatever you think it is, you are wrong.  You are actually looking at the slow race-replacement of your own people in their homeland.  You are looking at the demonisation of their natural ethnic interests - making them uniquely in this world a people who must celebrate and do all they can to advance the ethnic interests of their replacers.

Don’t be sick.  Even at that.  Be a man.  Do something with your life that is useful to your people.  It is up to you.  Don’t leave it to others.  It is already very late.

50

Posted by AntonEgoFan on February 16, 2008, 01:28 AM | #

The “about page” for this site makes two claims:

(1) “We welcome opposing viewpoints, but in order to have a scholarly discussion, we request commentators to avoid the use of profanity and ad hominem attacks.”

This post is an ad hominem.  Its goal is to discourage others from hiring a person because it disagrees with the views he expresses.

Its also the antithesis of promoting a scholarly discussion.  How willing do you expect people to share contrasting opinions if the cost is a campaign for them to lose their job.

(2) “the site admins respect freedom of speech”

Perhaps we have a different view of what it means to respect free speech.  Maybe to you attacking someones employment opportunities as a result of their speech is OK; perhaps, free speech is respected so long as someones speech doesn’t lead to arrested/punished.  IMO, this doesn’t understand why western socities value free speech.

I found this post quite a long time after it was made.  I’d expect the page to have an “UPDATE: Apology,” since the posting is inconsistent with the claims the site makes of itself.  Consider posting an appology

51

Posted by Guessedworker on February 16, 2008, 08:44 AM | #

Razib is a Desi-racialist who, because Desi-racialism is welcomed among the G&G, passes criticism.  But let us be clear.  His presence in America, and that of his “cognitive eltist” co-racialists, slashes the wages and seriously curtails the opportunities available for decent and talented European guys in the tech sector.

Razib is not decent - he instituted a link from this blog and from Amren to an interracial porn site instead of to GNXP.  He is not especially talented, as JR makes clear in this post.  But Razib and his kind have destroyed thousands upon thousands of good careers, and all you can do is claim that one article exposing the guy’s shoddy capabilities should have us grovelling to him with apologies.

Well, I’m sorry that you understand so little of life and the rights of our people.  We built the technology industries and the damned countries that Razib & Co are free-riding in.  We are their victims, and the victims of the modern age.  Immigrants like Razib are the aggressors, encouraged by anti-white political, cultural and corporate interests.

So who, really, should apologise?  Go figure.

52

Posted by Takahata Joe on June 07, 2008, 12:21 PM | #

I suppose these comments would prove the relatively low intelligence of people who browse this website.  I’ve seen comments like “he’s actually good for a person from a low IQ place”.

Apparently these people haven’t taken a look at the census and found that Indian Americans have the highest education and highest income out of all ethnic groups in America, alongside the Jews.  Apparently they haven’t taken a look at U.K. test results, where immigration is more relaxed than the U.K., yet still showing that Indians GSCE scores surpass whites and are second only to the Chinese.

Of course, there are a few reasons for this.  The less intelligent probably cannot tell people of similar skin color apart, thus they think that the Chinese, who show high socioeconomic success abroad, are the same as the Vietnamese, who show low socioeconomic success abroad.  Similarly, they would look at the darker Indians and say “Hey, they’re dark, they must be like black people” despite the fact that Indians in the U.S. and U.K. are among the most successful brackets.  And also despite the fact that while Africa has remained stagnant, India is growing rather well.  Naturally, to those of lesser intelligence, the dark computer programmer in Silicon Valley does not seem different from the dark farmer boy in Africa or Australia.

There’s obviously the final reason, which is that whites in America may be willing to admit their inferiority in that country to the model minority - light skinned Asians like myself, but they have been nurtured on skin-colored based racism that they are unwilling to accept that the darker Indian immigrants in that country are so far ahead of them.  Heck, a lot of them are also still hesitant to acknowledge the superior success of Jewish immigrants.  Refusal to accept facts is a sign of lower intelligence.

-Takahata Joe

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 07, 2008, 12:47 PM | #

Whatever their intelligence, Joe, they don’t want to be race-replaced and have a right not to be and to protest at having it rammed down their throats.

54

Posted by Guessedworker on June 07, 2008, 01:14 PM | #

Joe,

India is not a high IQ nation.  But it has a billion people - that means a (light-skinned) smart fraction that is not very special in gaussian terms but, since this is principally the sector from which emigration flows, is easily substantial enough to tip the scales IQ-wise in receiver nations.

Pakistani emigrants are probably more typical of Sub-Continental IQ.  But even here the usual migration filter will apply.

There was a study some years ago which claimed that the most intelligent ethnic population on the face of the earth was Rhodesia’s white farmers, coming in at a full SD above the Ashkenazic mean.  No, I haven’t got the link to it.

55

Posted by Takahata Joe on June 07, 2008, 01:39 PM | #

your comment on “light-skinned” immigrants shows the common unintelligent person’s knowledge of India.  The dark southern Indians are actually the ones who are driving the technology boom and have produced most of India’s notable academics (Chandrasekhar, Ramanujan).  This comment simply harks back to my earlier comment regarding the brainwashing of unintelligent Americans about skin color.

Thank god there are those of us who are bred outside of this viewpoint and can view the world and its people objectively.  Not to say that it is only us, as one American, Steve Sailer, who is also a “white nationalist” and discusses IQ and genetics, but he is *smart and intelligent* and more objective.  He also notices the trend.

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2002/03/why-are-south-indians-so-smart.html

In other words, you have proven that you know very little about the topic you are discussing.

Of course India is not a high IQ, plagued with demographic strife, overpopulation, colonization and poverty.  However, I see no surprise in an Indian showing high intelligence as implied by commenters, because all Indian Americans show high intelligence, and most UK Indians, where migration filters don’t apply (resulting in low Pakistani scores), still come out at top.

As I said before, in the United Kingdom, there are less migration filters therefore Pakistanis do very poorly in socioeconomic terms, yet Indians still do very well, second to Chinese.  This implies that there is a racial difference between Pakistanis and Indians, specifically the more southern variety, with Pakistanis being closer to Middle Eastern people (Afghanistan) while Indians are a unique entity in terms of intelligence.  This is blindly obvious yet they are still categorized as “South Asian” ethnic group.  Lynn conducted a study in the UK and found Indians higher in intelligence and Pakistani lower, with both of them adding to an average of 95. 

-Takahata Joe

56

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 07, 2008, 02:39 PM | #

Joe:

1) Neither your comment nor the Steve Sailer log entry you linked shows the implication of GW’s comment, namely that light-skinned Indians tend on average to be smarter than dark-skinned ones, was wrong.  I’d say it’s right though I haven’t got proof at hand.

2)

“one American, Steve Sailer, who is also a ‘white nationalist’ and discusses IQ and genetics, but he is *smart and intelligent* and more objective.”

And he’s also no “white nationalist.”  On the contrary, he’s actually known for explicitly rejecting “white nationalism” in favor of something he calls “citizenism,” very different.

3)

This implies that there is a racial difference between Pakistanis and Indians [...].  This is blindly obvious yet they are still categorized as “South Asian” ethnic group.

The terms “Asian,” “East Asian,” and “South Asian” were coined in the eighties I believe (or not much earlier than then) by race-deniers in U.S. government agencies and academia.  I for one never use them for that reason, but stick to the older and perfectly polite terms such as Oriental, Mongoloid, and Indian Subcontinental (Subcon for short), specifying further distinctions as necessary by simply stating them.  I strictly avoid all bureaucratic and academic language intended expressly to serve to advancing the race-replacement of European peoples.

57

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 07, 2008, 02:45 PM | #

The terms “Asian,” “East Asian,” and “South Asian” were coined in the eighties I believe

I refer there to their use as designators of race.  In that respect they are recently-adopted race-denial terms and intended so to be.  I no more use them than I use “racist,” “feminist, “Patriarchy,” or the rest of the enemy’s linguistic weapons.  As a Canadian, do you like hockey?  Well, I’m not in the pratice of scoring “own-goals.”  If I were I’d be sure to use all those terms.

58

Posted by Darren on June 07, 2008, 03:25 PM | #

Apparently these people haven’t taken a look at the census and found that Indian Americans have the highest education and highest income out of all ethnic groups in America, alongside the Jews.

Did it ever occur to you that the Indians who come to America represent the cream of the crop?

What if I took the top 5% of whites (in IQ) and compared them to the whole of Jews and declared them better, as you do? Would that be fair?

This comment simply harks back to my earlier comment regarding the brainwashing of unintelligent Americans about skin color.

Joe, I don’t think anyone here preaches about racial superiority based on one’s skin color. I do not even preach it at all; I merely preach about racial differences and how ethnic pluralism is detrimental to white societies.

If you’re going to debate us, you’re going to have to try *alot* harder than this.

59

Posted by Guessedworker on June 07, 2008, 03:31 PM | #

Joe,

I’ve been called many things, but unintelligent is a new one.  Arrogance is a common weakness among Indians, so I excuse you.  According to Razib Khan, at the Indian population level (ie, outliers notwithstanding) light skin tone corrolates with intelligence.  He isn’t saying that light skin tone = intelligence.

No go away and argue with him, and adjust your behaviour before you return here.

60

Posted by Takahata Joe on June 07, 2008, 03:35 PM | #

I’d say it’s right though I haven’t got proof at hand.

Exactly - you have neither any evidence nor any true understanding of the topic, but your “gut” tells you it’s right because you have been taught and influenced into believing things a certain way.  You are like the opposite of race-deniers.  They want to believe that everyone who looks different is equal, while you want to believe that everyone who looks more like you is better than those who look less like you.  In the absence of any evidence or knowledge on the topic, you are predisposed to believe the answer which correlated with the bias that has been fed to you regarding races and appearance.

This is the problem with North American researchers on genetics.  There is simply too much history and baggage regarding race, skin color, and immigration for most of their views on genetics to be valuable.  This is why I far prefer the writings of people like Cavalli-Sforza.

The golden rule of genetics is that things can’t always be what you *want* them to be, regardless of whether you are a race-denier or a white supremacist.  As for proof, there is always evidence if you care to look for it.  Steve Sailer has managed quite well to notice the trends between the darker South and the light-skinned North.  An obvious indicator is the greater rate of development in the South.  South Indians from Tamil Nadu, 6% of India’s population, constitute nearly 26% of professors at the IITs (the highest university in India).  The region is more literate and less poverty-stricken, and also the center of the technology boom.  Even more obvious are the trends from outside India - namely that south Indian-heavy Singapore has far better performing Indians than north-heavy Fiji Indians (both immigrated as laborers).

Intelligent folks like Steve Sailer can spot the trend - as you can tell, I admire Mr. Sailer for being one of the few bloggers on IQ and genetics *without* a predetermined bias.  He simply “tells them as he sees them”, regardless of whether they satisfy whatever unintelligent nutjobs that he unfortunately has to share his immigration reform bunker with.

As for naming designations, I am uninterested in politics or the clouding of facts by people with some childish ulterior motive.  My goal is to discuss race and genetics honestly.  You can group all Mongloids or south Asians together.  Of course, Chinese and Vietnamese have notable differences, as do Pakistanis and Indians, but hey, that’s science.

-Takahata Joe

61

Posted by Takahata Joe on June 07, 2008, 03:41 PM | #

Did it ever occur to you that the Indians who come to America represent the cream of the crop?

As a matter of fact it did, and I have already explained this.  The point of bringing up America was the irony of assuming Razib Kahn is unintelligent, even though he is a immigrant Indian, who belongs to one of highest educated groups.

That wasn’t related to intelligence of Indians overall.  For that, I have different factors.  Because in America, due to selective immigration, even Pakistanis have astounding education rates.  Instead we look at the United Kingdom, where more “average” south Asians immigrate due to relaxed immigration.  Therefore, Pakistanis do much worse in U.K., but Indians still do well, second only to Chinese.  Then, we can look at Singapore, where the Indians came as laborers.  Yet, according to socioeconomic factors, and in comparison with the measure IQ of Malays and Chinese, they would have a high IQ average.  This matches Lynn’s estimates of Indians in the United Kingdom.

62

Posted by Darren on June 07, 2008, 03:47 PM | #

As a matter of fact it did, and I have already explained this

Then stop making false comparisons between the whole averages of populations and the elite averages of others as a way of justifying anti-racism.

63

Posted by Takahata Joe on June 07, 2008, 03:54 PM | #

I suppose you have trouble reading entire posts.  Regardless, regarding the earlier comparison, it’s actually it’s a very simple concept, that you may be able to grasp: *Indian Americans* = intelligent.  Razib = Indian American.  Therefore, it is likely that Razib Kahn = educated.

-Takahata Joe

64

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 07, 2008, 04:03 PM | #

“you want to believe that everyone who looks more like you is better than those who look less like you.”

 

We want to stop getting race-replaced by other races, which wouldn’t be happening but for our governments shoving it down our throats.  (That won’t last.)

“Exactly - you have neither any evidence nor any true understanding of the topic, but your ‘gut’ tells you it’s right because you have been taught and influenced into believing things a certain way. [...]  In the absence of any evidence or knowledge on the topic, you are predisposed to believe the answer which correlated with the bias that has been fed to you regarding races and appearance.”

Have you evidence that lighter-skinned Subcons don’t on average possess greater intelligence than darker-skinned?

“This is the problem with North American researchers on genetics.  There is simply too much history and baggage regarding race, skin color, and immigration for most of their views on genetics to be valuable.”

You’re talking about Risch?  Hawks?  You can’t mean the academic race deniers since you claim to acknowledge race.  Who in the world are you talking about? 

“South Indians from Tamil Nadu, 6% of India’s population, constitute nearly 26% of professors at the IITs (the highest university in India).”

India is known for being burdened with a huge affirmative-action government bureaucracy.

“The golden rule of genetics is that things can’t always be what you *want* them to be, regardless of whether you are a race-denier or a white supremacist.  As for proof, there is always evidence if you care to look for it.  Steve Sailer has managed quite well to notice the trends between the darker South and the light-skinned North.  An obvious indicator is the greater rate of development in the South.  South Indians from Tamil Nadu, 6% of India’s population, constitute nearly 26% of professors at the IITs (the highest university in India).  The region is more literate and less poverty-stricken, and also the center of the technology boom.  Even more obvious are the trends from outside India - namely that south Indian-heavy Singapore has far better performing Indians than north-heavy Fiji Indians (both immigrated as laborers).  Intelligent folks like Steve Sailer can spot the trend [...]”

I searched in that passage for your hard evidence that lighter-skinned Indians aren’t smarter on average than darker-skinned (yes, searched even right down to “Steve Sailer spotting the trend”) — can you point it out to me?  I’m sure it’s in there.  I must’ve missed it.

“You can group all Mongloids or south Asians together.”

 

I don’t group them together.  When called for I distinguish them by race, avoiding “Asian” as a racial designation, which is no less a term of race-denial than “Hemispheran” would be — or “Earthling,” for that matter, which is probably going to be the government bureaucrats’ next “improvement” in the terminology:  “Earthling” and “Jews” will one day the only two groups permitted under the U.S. governmental and academic PC régime (Jews and goys, in other words — how convenient!), “terminology violators” to receive draconian punishment for “hate speech” transgressions.

65

Posted by Darren on June 07, 2008, 04:04 PM | #

I suppose you have trouble reading entire posts

No trouble at all.

You are trying to make the claim that we are all a bunch of low-IQ racists who considers racial superiority based on skin tone and then try to support your anti-racist rhetoric by showing examples of high IQ non-whites, especially those who compose an elite from an entire population.

I am not fooled.

(Moderators, can you delete this duplicate post that I put in the wrong story? Thanks. http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/iq_matters/#c58852 )

66

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 07, 2008, 04:07 PM | #

“even though he is a immigrant Indian”

Bangladeshi.  It’s his blog’s co-founder who’s Indian.

67

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 07, 2008, 04:11 PM | #

The co-founder was actually born here, so is an American by birth, of Indian Hindu family background.  Razib’s Moslem family immigrated here from Bangladesh when he was a child.

68

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 07, 2008, 04:21 PM | #

It turns out Joe is someone of no interest whatsoever.  He’s a zero.  He’s not bright enough or honest enough.  All replying to him should be done strictly on a “have-lots-of-time-to-waste” basis.

69

Posted by Guessedworker on June 07, 2008, 05:08 PM | #

OK, Darren.  Done that.

70

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 07, 2008, 05:11 PM | #

I just wandered over to JWH’s, and .... 

... well, there’s good news and there’s bad news.

The good news:  his take on our Japanese-Canadian visitor, Joe.

The bad news:  his take on me.

I rate a passing mention in an entry inaugurating a new semi-regular feature to be added over there called Doom Watch:

New “watch”

In addition to “NEC Watch” — which casts an eye on the doings of our good friends, the Non-European Caucasians — and “Imbecile Watch” — which takes a look at stupidity, hypocrisy, and mendacity — we now welcome to this blog “Doom Watch,” which shall chronicle the (essentially) inevitable decline and destruction of the European-derived peoples and of Western civilization.  This shall not only look at those actively destroying these entities, as well as the apathy of the masses, but also study the ineptness, freakishness, insanity, and “worse than uselessness” of the so-called “opposition” — the “racialists” and “nationalists” allegedly “fighting the tide.”

Unlike some — for example, commentator Fred Scrooby at “Majority Rights” [Emphasis added .... hey let me bask in the spotlight a little .....] with his “we’re going to win this thing, comrades!” rants — [“rants”???  Hey I took time to compose those!  I read ‘em all over at least twice before pushing the “send” button!  “Rants”???  No way!!]  I believe that reality is more in tune with Spengler’s “optimism is cowardice.”

This does not mean I advocate surrender.  The analogy I’ll use is winning the lottery.  The chances of any one person winning a major lottery price is very small — in some cases, ten million to one against, or even worse.  But, some people do win, and you “have to be in it to win it.”

Let’s say that the chances of white and Western survival is ten million to one, but that the “one” exists only if there is some sort of activism in its favor.  Let’s continue doing what we can, but at least let us be realistic.

Hey I once called him a grouch, he’s getting me back, what can I say?  Yikes!  I just thought of something — with my bloodlines I should be thankful he didn’t put me in NEC Watch .... or Imbecile Watch either ( ... but for how long am I safe, I wonder? ...... I better shut up and stop giving him ideas .......)  (OK everybody just forget you saw this comment .... now let’s hope he doesn’t notice it ....... )

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Posted by ^123 on June 08, 2008, 05:01 AM | #

This discussion has turned outright laughable. I have been a few times in Tamil Nadu. These people (Tamils) are supposed to be more intelligent than whites??? Hahahahah.

That must be the joke of the millenium. Let’ rather discuss something more worthwhile, say about the martians settling earth.

72

Posted by 123 on June 08, 2008, 06:04 AM | #

“say about the martians settling earth.”

Sorry, I meant “invading earth”.

73

Posted by Takahata Joe on June 09, 2008, 04:44 AM | #

You are trying to make the claim that we are all a bunch of low-IQ racists who considers racial superiority based on skin tone and then try to support your anti-racist rhetoric by showing examples of high IQ non-whites, especially those who compose an elite from an entire population.

What I believe is that many Americans, and especially those on this site, have grown up in an environment which has given them a deeply rooted bias based on skin color.  This is why we are accepted more in this country than other groups who have equal or greater success than we do.  Notable the Jews, because of a long history of hatred, and the Indians, because of their skin color.  This is why the astrophysicist and Nobel-prize winner, a Tamil named Chandrasekhar, was discriminated as a “colored” along with blacks when he first visited America - because Americans can not see any distinction when it comes to skin color.  If your light, your light, if you’re dark, you’re dark and therefore an uneducated and crime-loving black man.

As I already said, I agree that America is not a good place to study this because of selective immigration.  In the United States, even Pakistanis do better than east Asians, which is clearly nonsense.  Instead, I will look at the United Kingdom, which has looser immigration, resulting in more average immigrants.  This is why Pakistanis do so poorly in the U.K., but Indians still do well, second to Chinese.  Then, we go to Singapore.  An Indian populated descended from regular laborers brought over by the British, not selective, yet with all indicators pointing to an IQ between Chinese and Malays, which would be around 100.  Lynn’s estimate of South Asians in the developed environment was 95, with Indians higher and Pakistanis lower, which echoes my own estimate.  Oh, and unlike what one of your readers seems to believe, I do not believe that Indians have *higher* IQ than Europeans as East Asians do.

The blogger who singled out my comment on his blog post shows his ignorance when he thinks its odd for me to separate Indians from Pakistanis.  There is no south Asian ethnic group just as there is no European ethnic group.  There are Slavic people, Nordic people, Mediterranean people, and etc.  Even east Asians seem to diverge, with the Chinese appearing to have slightly higher IQ than Koreans and Japanese like myself.

Oh, and good luck to end the “massive conspiracy by the Jewish people”, Fred.

-Takahata Joe

74

Posted by Takahata Joe on June 09, 2008, 05:24 AM | #

Oh, and Fred here perfectly embodies what I stated earlier - in the absence of any knowledge of the topic, his “gut” tells him that light-skinned northerners must be, on average, of higher IQ, despite the fact that all development trends in India point to the opposite, and wants someone to *disprove* it to him.  In other words, his predetermined assumption must be disproven, rather than a proposed theory being proven. 

Of course, though I mentioned the difference between the darker south and lighter north, in reality the gap itself would probably be rather small, sort of like the gap within east Asian populations.  The greater difference exists between Indians compared with Punjabis, Pahstuns and other Pakistani populations who seem to be more related to Middle-easterners than to Indians.

75

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 09, 2008, 08:58 AM | #

“Oh, and Fred here perfectly embodies what I stated earlier - in the absence of any knowledge of the topic, his “gut” tells him that light-skinned northerners must be, on average, of higher IQ, despite the fact that all development trends in India point to the opposite, and wants someone to *disprove* it to him.  In other words, his predetermined assumption must be disproven, rather than a proposed theory being proven.  Of course, though I mentioned the difference between the darker south and lighter north, in reality the gap itself would probably be rather small, sort of like the gap within east Asian populations.  The greater difference exists between Indians compared with Punjabis, Pahstuns and other Pakistani populations who seem to be more related to Middle-easterners than to Indians.”  (—Joe)

I just read that statement carefully, Joe, and still haven’t found the hard evidence that light-skinned Indians are not more intelligent on average than dark-skinned ones.  I’m certain it’s me, because I know you put it in there; I just can’t find it.  Could I trouble you to point it out for me?

About your concerns expressed in your other post, the one just before, in regard to being discriminated against because of your yellow skin color, or darker skin color, or whatever it was, there may be grounds for that concern, but that’s not something most at this blog have uppermost among their priorities.  Most here would like, first and foremost, government-enforced race-replacement of white people ended and the demographic changes already imposed reversed.  Oh, and we’d like changes put in place making it that Ashkenazi Jews will never again be able to do this to us — never again try to genocide us in this way (of course they’ll think up some other way but we’ll just have to deal with that when the time comes).

76

Posted by Takahata Joe on June 10, 2008, 04:46 PM | #

Fred, I think you’ve made it quite clear that you’re not the sharpest tool in the shed.  I mean, I was willing to excuse your delusions about the massive Jewish conspiracy, but when you cite affirmative action in India (meant to increase student enrollment of lower castes in higher education from its initial state of…...non-existent) to explain 500% overrepresentation of a certain darker regional group among professors, you made it quite clear you know very little about this topic.  Perhaps you should make your way back to the other thread and continue screaming about the Zionist conspiracy to take over the world.

And in case you have trouble reading, here’s my earlier response:

Oh, and Fred here perfectly embodies what I stated earlier - in the absence of any knowledge of the topic, his “gut” tells him that light-skinned northerners must be, on average, of higher IQ, despite the fact that all development trends in India point to the opposite, and wants someone to *disprove* it to him.  In other words, his predetermined assumption must be disproven, rather than a proposed theory being proven.

In the meantime, I will remain amused by the predictable nature of this bias which has been so deeply infused into the American mind.

77

Posted by Takahata Joe on June 10, 2008, 04:48 PM | #

making it that Ashkenazi Jews will never again be able to do this to us

Yes, it would be awful if the Ashkenazis could once again disproportionately contribute to American science, culture and productivity.  Just awful.

78

Posted by Captainchaos on June 10, 2008, 06:52 PM | #

Hey Joe, want to find out how the jews opened up the borders of America to non-whites?

Read this:

http://www.kevinmacdonald.net/CofCchap7+Red.pdf

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Posted by Captainchaos on June 10, 2008, 07:01 PM | #

Ooops, the link didn’t work.

Try this:  http://www.kevinmacdonald.net  —> Essays on Jews and other Diaspora Peoples—> scroll down to “Culture of Critique” under Books and click on on of the squares to the right of “Chapter 7: Jewish Involvment in Shaping US Immigration Policy”

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Posted by Darren on June 10, 2008, 10:47 PM | #

This is why the astrophysicist and Nobel-prize winner, a Tamil named Chandrasekhar, was discriminated as a “colored” along with blacks when he first visited America - because Americans can not see any distinction when it comes to skin color.  If your light, your light, if you’re dark, you’re dark and therefore an uneducated and crime-loving black man.

I think that, at this point, the claims about “dark colored Indian” IQ needs to be put to rest. This isn’t a particularly critical issue to me (nor should it be to any ethnonationalist), but we seem to be getting hung up on it in place of discussing meaningfully important issues.

Rather than discussing and debating the merits of the claim about IQ, we simply need to stick to the argument any ethnically alien people should not immigrate to traditionally European nations, regardless of IQ. This is where I am going to stake my ideological claim right now.

Oh, and good luck to end the “massive conspiracy by the Jewish people”, Fred.

Can you debate the claims here point by point, rather than making a rather immature and emotive generaliztion of our claims?

As the poster above me has pointed out, Jews have indeed been involved in the shaping of American life. Kevin MacDonald’s “Culture of Critique” provides a very honest, well-researched, and through account of this without having to delve into the crude anti-Semitism that you seem to want to paint us with.

I will let you go and consider Dr. MacDonald’s work for a while and wait for you to come back to us.

I would just leave you with a thought: if we agree on the idea that Jews are a historically persecuted and disliked people, why would it be wrong to suggest that Jews may, for their own self-perceived benefit, group together to try to shape the direction of society to make things better for themselves? You would just prefer to make it seem as if that Jews are just some bright group of people (indeed they are) who are otherwise ineffectual at shaping policy or cultural norms, especially when it comes to their own self-interests. This is absurd.

Yes, it would be awful if the Ashkenazis could once again disproportionately contribute to American science, culture and productivity.  Just awful.

What exactly is “culture” to you, Joe? I raised this issue with you in the “IQ Matters” thread but you failed to respond to it. What makes an Ashkenazi Jew’s contribution more meaningful than say a Negro’s or those of regular ol’ Whites? Is culture merely a product of IQ? Is it something that can be measured on a quantitative scale? This seems to be the direction you are heading towards and I think it needs to be discussed because I strongly disagree with that POV.

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Posted by rec1man on July 02, 2008, 07:51 AM | #

swaminomics.org

—-

So, a better title for the study might have been “Private Schools Shining and Government Schools Drowning”.

Das and Zajonc use a new methodology to compare maths tests across countries. They compare maths test results of Grade 9 students in 2003 in two states, Orissa and Rajasthan, with students in 49 countries. These two states perform worse than 43 of these countries. Few readers will be surprised.

But while most students in Orissa and Rajasthan fare poorly, the upper crust fares very well. The top 5% of children scored 577 in Orissa and 544 in Rajasthan, well above the US average of 504. Assuming that these two states are representative of all India — an underestimate, surely — then for every 10 top performers in the US, India has 4. However, for every 10 low performers in the US, India has 200.

The top performance in 2003 came from Singapore (605 marks), with Korea second at 589 marks. The US ranked only 18th (504 marks). The performance of middle-income countries — including oil-rich ones — was surprisingly bad. Indeed, Orissa (404) and Rajasthan (382) fared quite well compared with much richer places like Egypt (406), Bahrain (401), Chile (387), Morocco (387), and the Philippines (378). Far below came Saudi Arabia (332) and South Africa (264), both of which have substantial per capita incomes.

India is the second poorest country on the list, and Orissa and Rajasthan are among the poorer Indian states

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Posted by Mythbuster on July 02, 2008, 11:23 AM | #

Takahata Joe is the person here who knows what he is talking about, all the so called higher iq WNs have proved themselves to be morons by their posts.

Some retard mentioned “light skin gaussian” bla bla bla, i got news for you buddy, but light skinned Northern states barring Punjab are the worst off economically while South is the most developed part of India.

Let us put your “gaussian” bs to the test by taking a look at some of Indian or Indian origin famous Mathematicians and Scientists in the last century:

1) Srinivasa Ramanujan (One of the best mathematicians of 20th century and all time) - Tamil
2) Subramanya Chandrasekhar (Nobel for Physics) - Tamil
3) Hargobind Khorana (Nobel in Biology) - Punjabi
4) CV Raman (Nobel for Physics) - Tamil
5) Srinivasa Varadhan (Abel Prize winner in 2007) - Tamil
6) Calyampudi Rao (National Medal of Science winner in US) - Telugu
7) Vilayanur Ramachandran (one of the leading Neuroscience researchers right now) - Tamil

So there you have it, one Northener (Punjabi) against all the so called dark skinned Southerners.

I got more news for u ignorant hicks, you know those call centre jobs being outsourced that piss u off, well they mainly go to Southern India not ur fabled fair skinned North.

Next someone mentioned reservations as being the reason for South Indian overrepresenation in IT, please if u r going to shoot ur mouth off then make sure u know what u r talking about, reservations are not given based on ur skin color or where u r from, every state including Northern ones have them to help the backward sections WITHIN that state, so Southern ones have reservations to help Southern backward sections. This has nothing to do with IT at all as these morons claim, ITs r private institutions and were developed in the South by the dark South Indians. To put simply you DO NOT get reservations because u r a south indian u moron, u get it if u r one of the backward castes and that applies equally well to North Indians or South Indians.

Fred still can’t deal with the fact that descendants of dark Tamil labourers in Singapore consitently outscore Malays and tend toward the Chinese in performance, they alsso outscore Chinese in Singapore by a slight margin in Singapore, how do u explain that Fred?

Or how about the fact that Indians in UK where immigration was much less selective still outscore white kids in GCSE’s second only to the Chinese, I thought u guys were the master race?

You WN morons r no better than the nation of islam, full of crackpot bs like claiming that Europeans have a higher IQ than Ashkenazi Jews or trying to steal credit for Jewish achievements which are mind boggling to say the least given their % of world population, all this to boost ur own fragile egos because u can’t match Jewish success, so u make up crackpot bs like saying that Einstein stole his theory of realtivity from his non Jewish wife and other laughable assertions.

And Takahata Joe I just want to deal with a point u brought up about Pakistans (Punjabis and Pashtuns mainly) having lower IQ, this is true but ur reasons r mistaken at least for Punjabis, most of them are descendants from converted Hindus and are not foreign (only the very elite of Pakistan are of persian and other foreign descents), the Indian side of the Punjab is one of most prosperous states mainly due to the Green Revolution and Indian Punjabis perform quite well in UK. The reason for Pakistani underperformance in UK is mainly Islam and the resulting fanaticism, there is also a high % of cousin marriages among them, i am not sure if that affects IQ. Coming to Pashtuns they are of foreign descent mainly who moved into Afghanistan and NWFP in the wake of Muslim conquest from Iran I think, their language is not derived from Sanskrit like other Indian languages. In contrast Punjabi is predominantly derived from Sanskrit with some borrowals from Persian/Arabic/Turkish due to Muslim rule and now English. Hope that puts the lower performance of Pakistanis in perspective.

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Posted by Mythbuster on July 02, 2008, 11:29 AM | #

“they alsso outscore Chinese in Singapore by a slight margin in Singapore, how do u explain that Fred?”

I meant that they outscore Chinese in Singapore in the subject of English, here are the stats from the gov’t of Singapore for the 3 main ethnic groups:

http://www.getforme.com/previous2007/141207_educationperformancebyethnicgroup1007-2006_more.htm

Chew on that u ignorant hicks.

Singapore Indians are 58% Tamil, these are mainly labourers plus some merchants descendants, the other 42% also come from other Southern states like Kerala and AP, so about 80-90% of Singapore Indians are dark South Indians.

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Posted by Darren on July 02, 2008, 12:18 PM | #

Mythbuster:

First, let me say while that the stuff being posted about Indian ethnic groups is definitely intriguing to me, I’m not sure why some people here are overly concerned about the distribution of IQ in other countries. It is really a pointless exercise regardless of who comes out on top.

I am an ethnonationalist, that is, I am interested in white self-government and the advancement of our culture as it derives from our unique traits as Europeans. I do not deny that non-Euros, including Indians and Jews, have contributed to the advancement of knowledge. I only argue that ethnic pluralism is bad for us and that arguments about IQ superiority cannot be used as justification for immigration into our lands.

We are not all, collectively, making the claims that you attribute to us. I think Einstein was a legitimate scientist and that there are many very intelligent Jews contributing to the body of knowledge. That doesn’t mean I want to be subject to the political and cultural interests of Jews, though, because its very destructive to our own interests.

Takhata Joe did not reply to my previous post in this discussion about ethnonationalism and Jewish ethnic group interests. How do you weigh in on this issue? It seems that some people here, on both sides, are hung up on figuring out where ethnic groups fit in on the map of cognitive abilities but are missing the bigger picture: different ethnic groups produce different results. We want our own culture and nation, regardless of how wonderful other groups may be at doing various things. What say you?

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Posted by Mythbuster on July 02, 2008, 03:02 PM | #

Darren its very simple really, WNs like u live in a fantasy land, u say u want ur own countries, seems reasonable except for the fact that millions of non whites are already in Europe, US etc and many of them are legal citizens and who made that happen, YOUR OWN governments.

No one asked u guys to import slaves from Africa, if u had the foresight then to do ur own fukin work including picking cotton u wouldn’t be in the trouble u r now would u?

You constantly preach democracy and other crap to the 3rd world but besides non whites voluntarily leaving u cannot have a democratic solution of deporting legalized citizens.

If these r ur best guys that r posting here, i don’t have much hope for ur movement cuz they really sound like some trailer park trash going by their lack of knowledge.

Till colonialism Europe was no superpower, it was in the last 200 years that ur countries developed, before that China and India had the lions share of world GDP, so u expanded and wiped out native indians etc, now of course the trend is reversing with China rising once again, even the mighty Roman empire fell and thats whats gonna happen soon with Europe too, get used to it because history has shown that no power will last forever.

You say you don’t care what the cognitive capacities of other ethnic groups are but thats not what the majority of ur fellow WNs say, they claim that Europeans or people of European descent are the superior race, maybe true since nothing is absolutely impossible but then u go check out these morons and realize that their facts r as good as those put out by the flat earth society.

I will give one example of this, i have seen numerous WNs claim that whatever awards and prizes black americans won were in stuff like literature which don’t matter much, lets assume they are right, then u go in and see what they have to say about Jews who r way out of proportion in maths and science achievements, suddenly ur WN community shifts the goal posts, now they start claiming that its no sign of intelligence and that real intelligence can be measured by lack of any Jewish authors on par with Dante, Shakespeare etc. This is what convinced me that its a totally nutty movement lead by a bunch of uneducated buffoons who can’t seem to makeup their minds.

Just look at all the comical posts right here that correlate skin color with intelligence when there is no evidence for it, just think about it when the so called nordic master race were a bunch of barbarians the darker Southern Europeans like the Italians built the mighty Roman Empire (unless u r one of those nordicist crackpots claiming that Nordics came and did that in Italy).

And one last point, please make up ur mind on whats white or not, till the other day Italians were dirty “wops” in the US and the Irish were the “niggers” of Europe according to the WASPS, now suddenly they are “white”. This is what i mean by constant shifting of goal posts that makes ur movement to be a bunch of buffoons.

As for me, well I do hope the Chinese and Indians etc swamp ur countries and take ur jobs too, like I said no one was the sole power for eternity in human history and it will be no different this time around.

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Posted by Darren on July 02, 2008, 04:11 PM | #

Darren its very simple really, WNs like u live in a fantasy land, u say u want ur own countries, seems reasonable except for the fact that millions of non whites are already in Europe, US etc and many of them are legal citizens and who made that happen, YOUR OWN governments

This is true, but this does not mean that 1) we have to accept more immigrants and 2) something shouldn’t be done to preserve the interests of the remaining Europeans that dwell there

No one asked u guys to import slaves from Africa, if u had the foresight then to do ur own fukin work including picking cotton u wouldn’t be in the trouble u r now would u?

I did not personally import any slaves, neither did any of my ancestors (from what I can tell). This claim is pretty much bogus for continental Europeans, as well.

Regardless, I think slavery was a terrible decision, not on moral grounds, but on the grounds that it was shortsighted and foolish, in light of what has happened as a result.

You constantly preach democracy and other crap to the 3rd world but besides non whites voluntarily leaving u cannot have a democratic solution of deporting legalized citizens.

I do not, personally. As far as I know, colonialism isn’t part of the platform of any mainstream WN. The vast majority of us oppose our adventures in the middle east, for example.

If these r ur best guys that r posting here, i don’t have much hope for ur movement cuz they really sound like some trailer park trash going by their lack of knowledge.

I’m posting from my double-wide. Just paid ‘er off! yee haw!

Till colonialism Europe was no superpower, it was in the last 200 years that ur countries developed, before that China and India had the lions share of world GDP, so u expanded and wiped out native indians etc, now of course the trend is reversing with China rising once again, even the mighty Roman empire fell and thats whats gonna happen soon with Europe too, get used to it because history has shown that no power will last forever.

I am not interested in superpower status. What I am interested in is self-sufficent nations that exist solely for the interests of its people and culture, not for the accumulation of wealth.

You say you don’t care what the cognitive capacities of other ethnic groups are but thats not what the majority of ur fellow WNs say, they claim that Europeans or people of European descent are the superior race, maybe true since nothing is absolutely impossible but then u go check out these morons and realize that their facts r as good as those put out by the flat earth society.

Any WN who preaches racial supremacy, regardless of the factual basis of their arguments, is fighting the wrong fight. There are, of course, legitimate reasons to oppose the immigration of specific groups, such as their propensity to commit crimes or low IQ, but even if they are well-behaved and intelligent, that is still no excuse to justify immigration.

I will give one example of this, i have seen numerous WNs claim that whatever awards and prizes black americans won were in stuff like literature which don’t matter much, lets assume they are right, then u go in and see what they have to say about Jews who r way out of proportion in maths and science achievements, suddenly ur WN community shifts the goal posts, now they start claiming that its no sign of intelligence and that real intelligence can be measured by lack of any Jewish authors on par with Dante, Shakespeare etc. This is what convinced me that its a totally nutty movement lead by a bunch of uneducated buffoons who can’t seem to makeup their minds.

This is a legitimate gripe, but not all of us are this silly in our reasoning. You are right - we have a lot of foolish and ignorant people in the “movement”. However, many of us do not share in their foolishness or lack of knowledge.

There is an intellectual and factual basis for white nationalism. Some of us get it and some do not. As for those in the opposition, such as yourself, there is definitely a wide gap in understanding and intelligence as well, so I would recommend that you get off your high horse.

Just look at all the comical posts right here that correlate skin color with intelligence when there is no evidence for it, just think about it when the so called nordic master race were a bunch of barbarians the darker Southern Europeans like the Italians built the mighty Roman Empire (unless u r one of those nordicist crackpots claiming that Nordics came and did that in Italy).

Without getting into an overly extended discussion of nordicism (and I’m not overly nordic looking myself - brown hair and eyes), the basis for saying that nordics founded and ruled over many of the great civilizations does have a bit of truth to it. You might want to do some research.

And one last point, please make up ur mind on whats white or not, till the other day Italians were dirty “wops” in the US and the Irish were the “niggers” of Europe according to the WASPS, now suddenly they are “white”. This is what i mean by constant shifting of goal posts that makes ur movement to be a bunch of buffoons.

Italians are white, as far as I am concerned. The reason why there was resentment towards the immigration of Southern Europeans in earlier America was simply the fact that America was a largely Northwestern European nation at the time with their own ethnocultural background and traditions. However, Italians are more assimilable and share more cultural heritage than any non-Europeans do, so on that basis, I consider them part of the family. The issue today isn’t of Europeans but of non-Europeans.

As for me, well I do hope the Chinese and Indians etc swamp ur countries and take ur jobs too, like I said no one was the sole power for eternity in human history and it will be no different this time around.

I wish you bad fortune too!

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Posted by danielj on July 02, 2008, 07:03 PM | #

There is no Jewish conspiracy and no credible ethnonationalist (white nationalist, wn, etc.) asserts that. There is an expression of ethnic solidarity that results in a massive “meeting of the minds” (you know, like the one the Germans had) where a race is able to perceive what particular courses of action are healthy and beneficial for themselves and act accordingly.

In the case of White, Christian, Europeans in the homeland and the transcontinental Diaspora, exclusionary immigration policy and repatriation by any means necessary (through attrition, or less passive means) should be the particular forum our conspiracy takes.

Skin color as an abstraction is something for which I have no loyalty.

Whiteness is beautiful only in the aggregate.

The soul of my people is immeasurable, unquantifiable and unable to be parsed.

Takahata Joe, and his ally Mythbuster (and some of our allies unfortunately) are incapable of understanding the essence of an individual in relation to his class. Lightness of skin is part of what makes a White man a White man, but it can not make an individual outside of this class a White man and it is not the only delimiting characteristic. That is to say, lightness of skin in certain Indian populations does not excite my affection or produce in me some affinity associated with kinship. Darkness of skin does not preclude high IQ and I would like our interlopers to produce evidence that respectable personages of MR believe it to be a fact that it does. My worldview can absorb the fact that Indian Niggers are smarter than light skinned Indians without any amount of cognitive dissonance. I will sleep just fine whatever the fact of the matter is and this I suspect is the real problem for these dogs, our complete and utter indifference to their people.

Till colonialism Europe was no superpower, it was in the last 200 years that ur countries developed, before that China and India had the lions share of world GDP, so u expanded and wiped out native indians etc, now of course the trend is reversing with China rising once again, even the mighty Roman empire fell and thats whats gonna happen soon with Europe too, get used to it because history has shown that no power will last forever.

Share of global GDP is not an indicator of a nation’s apprehension of beauty or truth, just an indicator of an economy arranged to maximize fiscal or material prosperity. Our superiority is based on our own criteria and I will move, alter or change the goal posts as I see fit. Additionally, this is just a bunk statement since it takes an organized and impressive show of force to dictate to entire countries and continents outside of one’s immediate geographic reach their economic policy and arrange said policies to maximize benefit for one’s self. Well, it takes that or an inferior population.

Carroll Quigley’s (liberal) Tragedy and Hope should illuminate your cloudy thinking about the Indian colony and colonization in general.

I will give one example of this, i have seen numerous WNs claim that whatever awards and prizes black americans won were in stuff like literature which don’t matter much, lets assume they are right, then u go in and see what they have to say about Jews who r way out of proportion in maths and science achievements, suddenly ur WN community shifts the goal posts, now they start claiming that its no sign of intelligence and that real intelligence can be measured by lack of any Jewish authors on par with Dante, Shakespeare etc. This is what convinced me that its a totally nutty movement lead by a bunch of uneducated buffoons who can’t seem to makeup their minds.

Literature matters. It is an expression of the inward part, the essence of a people in written forum. The Odyssey to Metamorphoses to Canterbury Tales to Hamlet to mother f*ckin’ Mark Twain. Black people write literature for Black people and are therefore excluded from recognition in the Western Canon no matter how many awards brain dead and deracinated White folk bestow upon their nappy heads.

Again, this dichotomy you think you have hit on is easily resolved. Jews might be good at some science but they are incapable of being and understanding Homer whilst Blacks are incapable of anything except shuck and jive and some forums of poetry. Neither group is White and as great as Whites because they are incapable of being both Newton and Milton. Yeah dig? Synergy is what makes us genius. Connecting different fields that have nothing to do with each other! (That and table manners, chivalry and monogamy.)

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Posted by danielj on July 02, 2008, 07:09 PM | #

should be the particular forum our conspiracy takes.

form

Skin color as an abstraction is something for which I have no loyalty.

to which I have no loyalty.

Sorry about the

tags. I guess it is (blockquote) ???

and some forums of poetry.

forms of

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Posted by Mythbuster on July 02, 2008, 07:54 PM | #

“There is no Jewish conspiracy and no credible ethnonationalist (white nationalist, wn, etc.) asserts that.”

Once again the dumb hick shines through, you obviously havent been reading ur retarded buddies at Stormfront whose only answer to problems is to blame it on the Jews, what a stunning display of this alleged superior “white” intelligence.

“In the case of White, Christian, Europeans in the homeland and the transcontinental Diaspora, exclusionary immigration policy and repatriation by any means necessary (through attrition, or less passive means) should be the particular forum our conspiracy takes.”

Ya dream on trailer park trash, while u and ur cyberwanker buddies keep dreaming Europe will be Eurabia and i u live long enough u will be the first to have ur dick clipped and bend over for namaz most probably.

“Share of global GDP is not an indicator of a nation’s apprehension of beauty or truth, just an indicator of an economy arranged to maximize fiscal or material prosperity. Our superiority is based on our own criteria and I will move, alter or change the goal posts as I see fit. Additionally, this is just a bunk statement since it takes an organized and impressive show of force to dictate to entire countries and continents outside of one’s immediate geographic reach their economic policy and arrange said policies to maximize benefit for one’s self. Well, it takes that or an inferior population.”

Oh right but it indicates superiority when “whites” are involved.

No wonder with ur shifting goal posts no one takes u buffoons seriously.

Milton, Shakespeare bla bla bla, I don’t give a shit because u clowns can never match Ashkenazis in either Science or Maths which u r always trumpeting as ur property.

Sorry but invoking Newton didn’t prove anything, did ur retarded mind not comprehend what I said, in PRPORTION to world population Ashkenazis by far exceed any contributions from Europeans or anyone else.

And Darren u r the only one that seem to have any brains among ur fellow WNs here, rest like Fred and danielj seem like Bubba who just got finished screwing their cousins and got on their PC in their trailer park.

So I am gonna address a couple of ur points.

“There is an intellectual and factual basis for white nationalism. Some of us get it and some do not. As for those in the opposition, such as yourself, there is definitely a wide gap in understanding and intelligence as well, so I would recommend that you get off your high horse.”

First off unlike many WN clowns I don’t really classify myself into pro or opposite camps and indulge in groupthink so what some clowns said doesn’t matter to me, to me danielj is as much of a crackpot as Gould or Lewontin are, one lives in a delusion filled world of fantasies and shifting goal posts while the other two live in a world of all human groups having equal intellectual abilities.

“Without getting into an overly extended discussion of nordicism (and I’m not overly nordic looking myself - brown hair and eyes), the basis for saying that nordics founded and ruled over many of the great civilizations does have a bit of truth to it. You might want to do some research.”

I did, read Arthur Kemps nonsense (on par with Afrocentrist crap) and Dieneke’s response, so far I have to hand it to Dienekes.

And even if this bs is true, then that raises why these superior nordic morons couldn’t build up a civilization comparable to Rome in their lands and why they were savages when the comparatively dark skinned Persians had a highly developed civilization and empire by then.

Oh and I mentioned importing slaves because I assumed u lived in US.

As for danielj, good luck cyber wanker fulfilling ur nutty fantasies, we will see how ur plans go within our lifetimes assuming u r not some senile oldie ready to croak because France maybe the first country to have a Muslim majority by the end of this century and I hope it does become one just to teach u WN retards a lesson. Your slutty granddaughter may come home one day to tell ur senile self that she got knocked up by some Berber who did the “wham bham thank u maam” on her, at least I hope so.

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Posted by danielj on July 02, 2008, 08:26 PM | #

“There is no Jewish conspiracy and no credible ethnonationalist (white nationalist, wn, etc.) asserts that.”

Once again the dumb hick shines through, you obviously havent been reading ur retarded buddies at Stormfront whose only answer to problems is to blame it on the Jews, what a stunning display of this alleged superior “white” intelligence.

Your vulgarity laced points, and disparging of me, indict only you on charges of stupidity. Hick you are not since they have manners. You also didn’t read my post very thoroughly and are having trouble grasping my meaning.

I don’t frequent Stormfront and therefore have no buddies over there. Still, I think you might be simplifying the reality of the situation. They can’t all be that stupid - like charges repel after all.

Ya dream on trailer park trash, while u and ur cyberwanker buddies keep dreaming Europe will be Eurabia and i u live long enough u will be the first to have ur dick clipped and bend over for namaz most probably.

Hope is by nature an expensive commodity, and those who are risking their all on one cast find out what it means only when they are already ruined; it never fails them in the period when such a knowledge would enable them to take precautions. Do not let this happen to you, you who are weak and depend on a single movement of the scale. And do not be like those people who, as so commonly happens, miss the chance of saving themselves in a human and practical way, and, when every clear and distinct hope has left them in their adversity, turn to what is blind and vague, to prophecies and oracles and such things which by encouraging hope lead men to ruin.

I harbor no delusions but nevertheless I push on.

Oh right but it indicates superiority when “whites” are involved.

I didn’t say that. I pointed out how wrong you were about colonialism and in doing so offered two possible ways of interpreting the actual facts.

Milton, Shakespeare bla bla bla, I don’t give a shit because u clowns can never match Ashkenazis in either Science or Maths which u r always trumpeting as ur property.

I didn’t trumpet it and you must mean that we will never trump the per capita achievements of Ashkenazis which fact elicits and big *sigh* and peaceful sleep sans cognitive dissonance.  I do trumpet Europe, America and Australia as our property and think it would be just swell if we could keep it.

No wonder with ur shifting goal posts no one takes u buffoons seriously.

Sauce for the goose…

Sorry but invoking Newton didn’t prove anything, did ur retarded mind not comprehend what I said, in PRPORTION to world population Ashkenazis by far exceed any contributions from Europeans or anyone else.

I invoked Newton in combination with Milton and was not attempting to address your obsession with the per capita achievements of Jews.

danielj seem like Bubba who just got finished screwing their cousins and got on their PC in their trailer park.

Third cousin smile

As for danielj, good luck cyber wanker fulfilling ur nutty fantasies, we will see how ur plans go within our lifetimes assuming u r not some senile oldie ready to croak because France maybe the first country to have a Muslim majority by the end of this century and I hope it does become one just to teach u WN retards a lesson. Your slutty granddaughter may come home one day to tell ur senile self that she got knocked up by some Berber who did the “wham bham thank u maam” on her, at least I hope so.

About your “hope,” see above Thucydides quote.

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Posted by Captainchaos on July 02, 2008, 08:59 PM | #

Mythbuster, you revel in what you perceive to be the inevitability of White demographic dispossession.  Do you honestly believe that is in the best interests of Whites? 

I do not expect an answer, my question is rhetorical, the dispossession of our traditional nations is self-evidently not in our interests.

Your gleeful, glib, callous taunts regarding the destruction of everything that makes life worth living in this world for our people tells us all we need to know about the character of our racial enemies and should provide ample motivation to resist them with fanatical resolve.

You are counting on our continued weakness, I sternly urge you to reconsider.

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Posted by .357 on July 02, 2008, 09:11 PM | #

Experience tells us: it’s really a waste of time and energy debating our opposition. Especially obnoxious creeps like “Mythbuster.”

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Posted by Mythbuster on July 02, 2008, 10:16 PM | #

“Mythbuster, you revel in what you perceive to be the inevitability of White demographic dispossession.  Do you honestly believe that is in the best interests of Whites?”

Did I even say I was “white” or I give a shit about “whites”, my viewpoint is simple u mind ur goddamn business (as in the so called “white” community) and follow those virtues of democracy that ur govt’s r always preaching to the rest of the world even if that means ur group becomes a minority because thats what “democracy” means, it does not change as per the whims and fancies of “whites”.

In case of unprovoked attacks by other countries u have right to defend themselves but any attempt to use undemocratic means to force non whites to assimilate or kick them out or exterminate them (u guys should know since u have been pretty good at it) should be retaliated with a bunch of nukes straight into Europe by the non white countries.

But knowing u morons u just can’t keep ur alleged virtues to urself and get into misadventures such as Iraq and that will be ur undoing in the end.

As for the loser .357, touched a nerve did I, guess what truth hurts and the truth is u r fucked through ur own actions, i think most WNs thick as they are realize that too but choose to live in a fantasy world of recreating some pure white utopia that never existed or blaming the Jews for ur own incompetence.

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Posted by Lurker on July 02, 2008, 10:22 PM | #

Mythbuster - either there is some common agreed morality between nations ie our nations are allowed to survive intact as are yours, no double standard which undermines most of your points or its a free for all. In which case your arguments against us dont mean a thing, we are free to do whatever we like. So which is it?

Its funny you equate WN with white supremacy, its notable that many other ethnic groups are happy to be more than partisan and get no flak for it. Yet whites have got a lot to be partisan about. Why its almost as if non-whites and their white enablers know how bad things would look for them if we started totting up points in a competition. Science, art literature etc.

You mention slavery, well plenty of people down the ages have had slavery, the unique thing about whites is they decided to end it as well as developing the technology and industry that made slavery worthless. And remind me, how is the caste system these days - been abolished has it? No, dont tell me, all those untouchables are really happy knowing their place.

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 02, 2008, 10:31 PM | #

“Just look at all the comical posts right here that correlate skin color with intelligence when there is no evidence for it”  (—Mythbuster)

Joe and Mythbuster got it into their heads that someone here thinks Tamils must be stupid because they’re dark.  They got that into their heads because they’re stupid. 

For the record, I’ve read this site several times every day since it opened in October, 2004, and I’ve never seen any blogger or regular commenter say that.  I’ve also never seen anyone here say the equivalent thereof, such as, for example, that Negroes are stupid because they’re dark or Euros are smart because they’re fair.

Specifically, GW, in the comment of his which this pair of assholes are misinterpreting, did not say fair Indians were smart because they were fair or dark ones dumb because they were dark.  He alluded to northern ones being smarter than southern ones, if memory serves.  At this, the astonishingly impertinent, astonishingly low-IQ Nip, Joe, took umbrage but was misinterpreting what had been said, due to his ultra-low IQ, and now the cognitive basket-case Desi, Mythbuster, does likewise (and strangely hasn’t yet managed to bust a single myth despite a torrent of feebleminded logorrhea that makes the bimbos on “The View” look like high-IQ autistics).

Now, Mythbuster, in all your verbiage did you cite hard evidence that Northern Indians are not more intelligent on average than southern?  (That was the issue.)  I read all your crap and didn’t see any, just like in Joe’s crap.  So you expelled all your hot air for naught. 

A couple of other things: 

1) in regard to priority in the discovery of the Theory of Relativity it is noted that the Special Theory of Relativity was worked out in all its details and published, including E=m(c squared) and every other detail, by Poincaré and Lorentz before Einstein published his 1905 paper, and therefore should be called “the Lorentz-Poincaré Special Theory of Relativity” or, at the very least, “the Lorentz-Poincaré-Einstein Special Theory of Relativity,” Einstein’s name coming last;

2) in regard to “some WNs viewing Euros as the master race,” those WNs are right to do so, I’ve come to realize:  Euros can properly be viewed as the master race.  There is such a thing as the master race, it turns out.  Euros are it.

Now, as Abraham Lincoln said, “You can bore some of the people all the time, and you can bore all of the people some of the time, but you can’t bore all the people all of the time,” so go away and stop boring all the people all the time, Mythbuster.

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Posted by Mythbuster on July 02, 2008, 10:42 PM | #

Sorry lurker i don’t know whose viewpoints u r responding to, I mentioned slavery as an example of ur own actions that r screwing u now, didn’t say anything about whether others had slavery or not.

The only blatant double standards here are displayed by ur govt’s and as for “nations” surviving intact, if u mean some mythical racial “purity” by that, ain’t happening because u allowed those Muslim immigrants in and many r now 2nd/3rd generation citizens in EU countries, ur only democratic means of making ur countries “pure” is by convincing them either by groveling before them or offering them money to leave, barring that if u resort to undemocratic means then u lose any right to ask for democratic treatment of white minorities in non white countries or aggression from non white nations such as Iran, China etc against EU nations.

And may I suggest that u get some DNA tests done before jumping on the racial “purity” bandwagon because who knows what kind of a “mongrel” u r.

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Posted by Vyaghrapada on July 02, 2008, 10:43 PM | #

“You are counting on our continued weakness, I sternly urge you to reconsider.”

Certainly, a group of people in such a pernicious situation as yours shouldn’t be issuing borderline threats. Instead, you should be worrying if your loose wife, sister, or even dear mother is bedding down with a Rastus or a Rakim or even a Boubacar Bazambumba as you are reading this. So far, not even one person has replied to Mythbuster regarding Indian castes, which goes to show the baneful ignorance of your people in such matters. Do not seek to unnecessarily involve yourself in issues that do not concern you. Your people’s time has come and slowly but surely going away. You should take care as to not upset emerging seats of supremacy. It is us who issue threats now. Take care. And hopefully, in as little as 10 years, I’ll post congratulatory messages here after your induction into the Ummah. I hope you’re mentally equipped to deal with the coming obligatory wearing of the burqa and 4AM call to prayer in your precious Europe.

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Posted by Mythbuster on July 02, 2008, 10:51 PM | #

“Now, Mythbuster, in all your verbiage did you cite hard evidence that Northern Indians are not more intelligent on average than southern?  (That was the issue.) I read all your crap and didn’t see any, just like in Joe’s crap.  So you expelled all your hot air for naught.”

You retarded scumbag, u seem to have the cognitive capacity of a cockroach going by ur inability to comprehend simple things.

First u claimed that the overrepresentation of south indians in IT was due to reservations, where is ur proof for that u dumb dung beetle?

If u want hard evidence why don’t u pick up a book by Richard Lynn moron and compare the diaspora in Fiji which is mainly North Indian whose IQ is lower compared to IQ of Indians in Singapore who are mainly South Indian.

sheesh and u guys r supposed to be what again, the “master race”, more like the master turd burglars.

And keep living in WN fantasies of whites coming up with the theory of relativity, u r in the good company of worthies such as Runoko Rashidi who thinks Blacks built the Greek civilization, i attach the same value to both fantasies.

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 02, 2008, 10:56 PM | #

“a group of people in such a precarious situation as yours shouldn’t be issuing borderline threats.”  (—Vyag)

That was a threat?  I saw only an assertion that we wouldn’t continue so weak, the implication being we would finally rally and undo our bad situation.  Was it wrong to say that?  As for being “threatening,” when a man gets rid of his fleas, ticks, and lice it’s threatening, yes, but only to the fleas, ticks, and lice, not to anyone else.

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 02, 2008, 10:59 PM | #

I’m not interested in the diaspora in Fiji, Mythbuster.  Answer my question.

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Posted by Mythbuster on July 02, 2008, 11:06 PM | #

Oh and since we r talking about renaming things based on who first came up with what.

If true u can rename theory or relativity but then u might want to do a little more searching to find out how many of ur so called “white” discoveries were discovered centuries before either in India or China independently and should also be renamed.

For a start u can begin by renaming the Fibonacci sequence as “Gopala-Hemachandra sequence”, follow that up with “Aryabhatas law of gravity” instead of Newtons law of gravity and “Pingala’s triangle” instead of Pascals triangle, when u achieve these 3 then we can think about renaming the theory of relativity.

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Posted by Lurker on July 02, 2008, 11:11 PM | #

Doesnt matter whether whites came up with the theory of relativity or not. The vast body of physics is work conducted by whites, a framework put in place that has allowed others to take part.


Isaac Newton - not Jewish, not Indian - did his work absent of almost any wider concept of science at all. When Einstein came along there was at least an existing body of theory he could work from.

The claims made for many non-white scientists remind me of Dr Evil talking about his father - “He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark.”

Comedy aside, taking this at face value, so what if he did invent the question mark? What about every other punctuation mark in the language, the rest of the language itself. As if somehow this one thing outranked and invalidated all the others.

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Posted by Mythbuster on July 02, 2008, 11:12 PM | #

Fred I will provide evidence as soon as ur retarded self can provide evidence for the claim that Southindian overrepresentation in IT is due to affirmative action as u claimed?

It shouldn’t be hard for ur high iq self to do so now would it unless u were lying.

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 02, 2008, 11:27 PM | #

“u can rename theory of relativity but then u might want to do a little more searching to find out how many of ur so called ‘white’ discoveries were discovered centuries before either in India or China independently and should also be renamed.  For a start u can begin by renaming the Fibonacci sequence as ‘Gopala-Hemachandra sequence,’ follow that up with ‘Aryabhatas law of gravity’ instead of Newtons law of gravity and ‘Pingala’s triangle’ instead of Pascals triangle”

 

The Eurosphere’s Jews will see to all that re-naming if their hegemony continues, making sure to stress plenty of “discoveries” made by “long-ignored-due-to-racism” Sub-Saharan “geniuses” along with the yellow and brown.

“when u achieve these 3 then we can think about renaming the theory of relativity.”

Only the Special Theory, not the General. 

“as soon as ur retarded self can provide evidence for the claim that South indian overrepresentation in IT is due to affirmative action as u claimed?”

I don’t have evidence.

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Posted by Vyaghrapada on July 02, 2008, 11:40 PM | #

“That was a threat? “

Appeared to be one to me, but it’s alright. I fully entrust my confidence in Time and its debilitating effects which will prove to be far more satisfactory to me than any post I make here. I should, however, point out that you don’t even seem to understand the basics of reservation which is entirely caste oriented and doesn’t have anything to do with states or regions. So why indulge yourself in matters you can’t even seem to understand? You should learn to exercise more caution, you will need it for the coming Islamic take-over.

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Posted by Mythbuster on July 02, 2008, 11:46 PM | #

Good so u don’t have any evidence, so better shut up on things u know nothing about.

Now here is something for u.

As u can see the study conducted in 1968 in AP gave an IQ of 82 and AP is a Southern state.

In the study on Delhi in 1992 the avg was 82, this was about 34 years after the AP IQ test.

So what Delhi a northern city had in 1992 AP already did in 1968, in this time Southern India was ahead of the North and if u know anything at all about IQ u would know about the Flynn effect and that in 1992 AP would have easily surpassed Delhi.

If you want further evidence get the book “Race Differences in Intelligence” by Richard Lynn who lists in detail the stats of the various IQ tests done in India and in which regions they were done.

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 03, 2008, 12:04 AM | #

Next time I have Lynn’s book in hand I’ll look for that info.

On Special Relativity, discussion of the claim of Poincaré‘s priority, both supporting and debunking it, is all over the internet, tons of it.  Just google Henri Poincaré, you’ll get right into it.  Browse articles here for example.  Here‘s a comment of mine from an older thread.  My view (which has nothing to do with race or ethnicity, but solely with priority) is it’s clear Poincaré had worked out the entire theory and published the whole thing piecemeal before Einstein’s paper and should get recognition ahead of Einstein.  (Einstein of course gets recognition for the General Theory.)

Incidentally, the anti-Euro attitudes expressed here by the browns Mythbuster and Vyag are what used to be the norm at GnXp.com when I got banned some years ago for replying in kind to a yellow who’d spouted some of it.  The unwritten but crystal-clear rule back then, set by Godless Capitalist, was vicious attacks on Euros by browns and yellows are fine, self-defense by Euros is forbidden.  I haven’t set foot in that sewer since.

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 03, 2008, 12:46 AM | #

The Russian paper (by physicist A.A. Logunov) which I linked in my comment in that older thread is no longer at that link.  It’s now here and here (PDF).  It’s a good paper but with lots of math in it.  On page 112 it shows Poincaré deriving E=m(c squared) (this was before Einstein’s paper).

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Posted by Lurker on July 03, 2008, 05:01 AM | #

Mythbuster - it appears we are supposed to laud the achievements of Indians, fine, but why does that invalidate WN? I dont see the connection. So I guess its a free for all, we can denigrate you as much as we like then.

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Posted by Captainchaos on July 03, 2008, 12:14 PM | #

Vyaghrapada: “You should learn to exercise more caution, you will need it for the coming Islamic take-over.”

No, YOU should learn to exercise more caution.  Any self-respecting White man would not allow a non-White to speak with such impertinence to his face.  As for “the coming Islamic take-over”, I say if you’ve got the stones for it go full steam ahead.  You’ll run up against a buzz saw.

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Posted by Englander on July 03, 2008, 02:32 PM | #

Mythbuster, you’d do well to drop the ‘ur’ and other abbreviations, they don’t help you any and are quite tiresome to read.

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Posted by Al Ross on July 03, 2008, 03:41 PM | #

Mythbuster should consider changing his name to myrhbeliever if he thinks South Indians are, on average an intelligent group. Unsurprisingly given their low average IQ,, Tamils are genetically related to Africans and Australoids, two of the lowest IQ groups extant, see http://www.unarvukal.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php?t3531.html.

The genius-level ‘Tamils’ cited by Mythbuster a few posts back were not, in fact, Dravidian Aborigines at all but Tamil-speaking Brahmins who fetched up in South India.

Professor Rushton explains Indian IQ here;
http://www.vdare.com/rushton/070926_indians.htm

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Posted by bbrrraap on July 03, 2008, 04:37 PM | #

Mythbuster is your stereotypical ignorant, pompous brown.  I’m sure people know of what I speak as there are about 1 billion of them around with this exact character flaw.

The problem with Mythbuster’s “logic” is that despite the accomplishments of a relative few browns over the years, their numbers pale in comparison to the contributions of whites proportionally speaking.  Many either already had a platform to work with or their discovery didn’t make it out of the dirty shit hole known as India.  Many also contributed after they came to the west and not from India.

Another problem with this logic is no one is denying any of these, albeit paltry, contributions.  Another problem is no one cares what they contribute.  No one wants them and their dirty, backward selves in the west.  Simple as that, really.

As to these grandiose ideations of world conquest, may I suggest to these supreme intellects of future world domination that they should learn to avoid shitting and bathing from the the same water source.  That would be a good start.  LOL

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Posted by silver on July 04, 2008, 04:09 AM | #

It’s always a bit of a shock to find out what people really think, isn’t it Mythbuster?  But think about it, man, you probably think the same thing about negroes, don’t you?  Why would you think whites wouldn’t think it about you?  Some folks in these circles, most notably the estimable Mr. Rienzi, have given me a hard time for my realistic appraisal of my own people and their general incompatibility with the ends of most who call themselves WNs, but one thing I can unreservedly praise them on is their eminently reasonable stance on the Indids who reside in their land:  Hardly a soul in Serbia would dream of considering an Indid his equal, and wisely tend to confine you to what amount to squalid ghettoes whose residents look like they just emerged from the Ganges (the squalidity being largely your own fault).  Come on man, when people look as different as you guys do, what the hell do you expect?  The fact that you tend to be quite dumb and superstitious simply adds injury to insult.  And in the case that you are as great and intelligent as you claim, why not simply stay in your own country, then, and make that place great?

As for Vyagraprada, lol, dream on dude (or get a life), you guys can’t even erect an Islamist order in your own countries and you’re going to do it in Europe?  Not even in the case that Europeans don’t wake up and take their countries back will that occur.  Love or hate the Turks, for instance, their army will send the towelies packing if they try that stunt. (As for me, I burn Korans for fun; in a fight for survival, I’ll carve up muslims real nice. smile )

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 04, 2008, 03:59 PM | #

There is a huge amount of discussion on the internet in regard to whether priority in discovering and publishing the Special Theory of Relativity properly goes to Einstein or Poincaré.  For me it’s clear it goes to the latter. 

Here are a few chosen almost at random (there must be many tens, maybe a hundred good ones out there): 

http://www-cosmosaf.iap.fr/Poincare.htm

http://www.everythingimportant.org/relativity/Poincare.pdf 

http://www.americanscientist.org/libraries/documents/200622102452_866.pdf

Look, the thing is this:  when people think “Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity” they think “Einstein’s discovery that length decreases in the direction of motion, mass increases with speed, time slows with speed, the speed of light is a fundamental constant independent of the speed of the emitting body, energy and mass are related by the famous formula E = m(c squared), and you can’t absolutely distinguish between standing still and moving straight with steady speed (there aren’t absolute spatial frames of reference).”  That’s the list of discoveries everybody thinks of when they hear “Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity,” but Einstein didn’t discover all the items on that list.  Today’s quiz:  which one didn’t he discover?

Answer:  all of them.

Einstein didn’t discover a single one of the things on that list.  Not one.  Every one of those was discovered and published before Einstein’s 1905 paper, most of them years before, a few of them a decade and more before.  All of them were well-known by the time Einstein came along.  They’d been worked out mainly by Lorentz and Poincaré.

OK, so, what exactly did Einstein contribute to what was already known thanks to the giants Lorentz and Poincaré?  (these two together with some relatively minor players such as Larmor; Fitzgerald; Voigt I think his name was, a German; an Italian whose name I can’t recall off-hand, and a few others; all important contributors but compared to Lorentz and Poincaré relatively “minor”)

Answer:  nothing that merits taking credit away from Poincaré.  Nothing.  You’ll be reduced to grasping at abstruse philosophical minutiae from supporters of Einstein’s priority, such as that he assumed the invariance of the speed of light as a postulate instead of deducing it from Maxwell’s equations and the Lorentz Transformations, or that he went further than Poincaré did in disregarding/denying the existence of the ether (which he didn’t really do, by the way), and other insignificance or just plain error.  Google it yourself; take the time to read the literature, and you’ll be hard-pressed to come up with anything Einstein did in his 1905 paper that justifies crediting him rather than Poincaré for Special Relativity.

Who first worked out and published the full details of the Special Theory of Relativity?  Lorentz and Poincaré, mainly Poincaré.  Why has only Einstein gotten credit?  No one knows but presently there are a lot of people including a lot of physicists looking into the matter.  I predict Poincaré‘s name will start to be attached more and more to that theory — which is only right after all, he being the one who first came up with it in all its details.

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 04, 2008, 04:07 PM | #

(Again, I’m talking there about Special Relativity from 1905, not General Relativity from 1915.  No one disputes Einstein’s priority in the latter though the impressive mathematical non-Euclidean groundwork for General Relativity was carried out prior to 1915 by Minkowski, David Hilbert, and others, and Einstein got it from them and incorporated it into his theory.)

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 05, 2008, 09:36 AM | #

How come Einstein never got the Nobel Prize for the discovery of the Special Theory of Relativity?  (He got the Nobel Prize, but for another paper he wrote on a different topic.  No Prize was ever awarded for Special Relativity.) 

Answer:  because the Nobel Committee knew Poincaré had priority (but by the time they were ready to award the Prize for Relativity, Poincaré had already died [in 1912 at age 58, of cancer] so they couldn’t award it to him, and therefore they left that particular Nobel Prize, the one for Special Relativity, never awarded).

So if the Nobel Committee knew it how come everyone else in the world didn’t?  We aren’t sure but, as already pointed out, there’s lots of discussion of this on the internet and a series of explanations for the lapse has been proposed. 

To rectify matters I for one intend to start calling the Special Theory of Relativity “the Lorentz-Poincaré Special Theory of Relativity.”  (“The Lorentz-Poincaré-Einstein Special Theory of Relativity” is also acceptable, provided Einstein’s name is put last, after the two discoverers.)

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 05, 2008, 10:02 AM | #

As for ethnicity in this matter of priority:  it’s not an issue.  Einstein and the Prussian H. Minkowski were Jewish; the Frenchman Poincaré wasn’t; the others I don’t know and never looked up (I would have said Lorentz, considered the greatest physicist in the world during the last two decades of the 1800s, was not Jewish but I just saw a photo of him as a young man, in which he definitely looked what could be considered Jewish; in that photo he certainly didn’t look Dutch, which was his nationality) and the great Prussian mathematician David Hilbert I’m pretty sure wasn’t Jewish but I’ve never looked it up.

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 05, 2008, 11:30 AM | #

More discussion.  (This business about Einstein in 1905 “banishing the ether” more explicitly than Poincaré did is trivial in the context of the fundamental equations of Relativity as of 1905 and not even true.  In any case by the 1920s Einstein was bringing the ether back.  Physics still can’t get rid of it after a hundred and fifty years of trying — now they call it the Higgs Field instead of the ether.  They built the whole new accelerator in CERN to prove it exists.  The ether.  Prove it exists.  In 2008.  No, they’ve certainly not “banished the ether.”  Likely never will.  Don’t tell me it’s because Einstein was more explicit about “banishing the ether” in 1905 that he got priority for a complete set of equations Poincaré had worked out and published (published piecemeal, granted, but published) before him?  That’s crap.)

Yes there are almost always simultaneity and claims of priority.  Newton’s law that bodies in motion continue moving unless friction or something stops or deflects them he got from Galileo if memory serves, and of course Kepler’s laws of planetary motion were crucial to Newton’s elaboration of his laws of motion.  But in the Einstein-Poincaré case it really is too blatant:  Poincaré had fully elaborated Relativity before Einstein’s paper and Einstein’s 1905 paper added nothing that was significant in comparison with what had already been laid down by that point. 

None of this question of priority has aught whatsoever to do with Einstein’s being Jewish.

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 05, 2008, 04:58 PM | #

This will be my last comment on this, but I just want to cite the papers.

For those who read French:  Poincaré‘s 1905 papers:

http://www.soso.ch/wissen/hist/SRT/P-1905-1.pdf

http://www.soso.ch/wissen/hist/SRT/P-1905.pdf

The first was submitted in June and the second in July, the second being a more elaborate expostion of the ideas in the first.  The second, submitted for publication in July 1905, was accepted for publication in December of that year and published in January 1906.

Here’s Einstein’s 1905 paper (in English translation) submitted June 30 for publication:

http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf

The point is, completely apart from the respective dates of submission for publication, Einstein’s work in his paper is simply, in its entirety, a recapitulation (with slight re-working in spots) of a series of revolutionary concepts, formulations, and equations Poincaré had already fully worked out over several years (basing his work heavily on almost two decades of pioneering discoveries by Lorentz and a few others) and published, as well as discussed about at length by him in formal scientific meetings and conferences, not to mention letters to others.  Einstein’s paper added nothing of significance to relativity as it stood, already invented and established by Poincaré, at the moment his paper was published.  Prior to that paper of his Einstein had published nothing on relativity whereas Poincaré had, with Lorentz’s help, created the whole field of relativity with publications extending back several years giving the theory in all its details to which Einstein added nothing of significance.  So why did only Einstein get the credit?  Whatever the reason, it needs to be rectified at long last.

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Posted by Celtic Queen Looking For Her Maharaja on October 16, 2008, 04:27 AM | #

As a white American I am completely embarrassed by the immature, unintelligent responses of Scooby Doo Freddy Whatever his name is to our obviously better born and bred Japanese commenter, Takahata Joe, or whatever.  Through the entire discussion Joe has provided not only anecdotal evidence but links as well and the only thing Scooby Fred can come up with is something along these line;

Scooby Doo:  there are purple one eyed monsters on Mars
Gladys Night: do you have any evidence for that?
Scooby Doo:  do you have any evidence against it?

Freddy Doo, do you have any statistical evidence whatsoever to support your original claim that lighter skinned Indian fare better on IQ tests in India than dark skinned ones? 

I have been to India several times, as well as to several countries around the world and it’s people like you that get me stereotyped as the “stupid American”.  Please, if not for yourself then at least for the honor of your womenfolk like me - SHUT UP ALREADY!!!

Joe, you’ve conducted yourself with the calm dignity that is typical of people from the East, due to your ancient culture, heritage and strong family values.  Please forgive my uncultured brothers here who more than likely come from broken homes and are themselves divorced and depressed.  As you know, more than 50% of us white Americans are on drugs like Prozac or Xanax to help us deal with all our “issues”.  The world knows we got alot of them and that’s why smart Asians like you and Mythbuster have to come here and work and buy homes (as opposed to renting in trailer parks) to keep our economy from totally collapsing. 

Question;  I know some old white dudes travel to places like the Phillipines to find family oriented “submissive wives” because they feel white American women are drama queen feminists with too much baggage.  Do you guys know any professional Asian men who would be willing to marry a white American woman?  Middle aged, bitter, white American men with kids from previous wives who themselves come from “issue oriented” rather than “family oriented” intact families are the only options I see here and it’s about driving me to the point of a Zoloft prescription!

Please tell me that there’s a Vikas or Vikram out there for me!  Unlike most American women in their thirties, I am not divorced and don’t have kids or other baggage.  Family values are more important to me than mental masterbation on internet websites.

OK I’m going to check out http://www.shaadi.com right now.

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 16, 2008, 07:59 AM | #

You’re at the wrong site for finding a Desi husband, Celtic — try posting the thing you wrote above at GnXp.com or that Sepia Mutiny site.  Good luck, hun!  (With your personality, you’ll need it!)

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Posted by Celtic Queen H1B Visas Zindabad! on October 17, 2008, 02:51 PM | #

Thanks for the tip Scoobs.  I’ll check it out.  Obama, please keep those H1B visas pouring in!  Our country depends on a smarter gene pool!

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Posted by James Bowery on October 17, 2008, 07:34 PM | #

Rumor has it—not that I give it any credence at all—that Celtic Queen H1B Visas Zindabad! is actually John Miano in drag.  Miano isn’t that subversive or devious—but the “queen’s” propensity to bug-seek bare-back mounting by a lower caste Desi poser here, rather than over at gnxp, is a mystery.  Maybe it knows something about the reading habits of those guys that we don’t.

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Posted by Smelly Pumaraju on October 17, 2008, 08:48 PM | #

“...[Celtic Queen’s] propensity to bug-seek bare-back mounting by a lower caste Desi poser…”

Effortless P’OWNAGE.

How will you respond to the beatings administered above, and throughout this thread, O Ye Brown Turds of the Ganges?

LOL!

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Posted by Lurker on October 17, 2008, 09:37 PM | #

Our country depends on a smarter gene pool! - Celtic Queen H1B Visas Zindabad!

Then remove yourself from said gene pool, thats the quickest improvement I can think of.

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Posted by Celtic Chai on October 18, 2008, 01:12 AM | #

No idea what “bug seek bare back mounting” means.  Something to do with that movie?

Don’t get thee chaddis in a twist me brethen.  I’m open to me own kind as well.  As long as thee look like Jude Law and can compute like Visvanathan Subramaniyan, this lass will serve thee up some find tea now.

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Posted by James Bowery on October 18, 2008, 11:17 AM | #

No idea what “bug seek bare back mounting” means.

Oh, but it knows you… it knows you…

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 18, 2008, 01:02 PM | #

“Don’t get thee chaddis in a twist me brethen.”

The gals we get our nix in a twist over are the feminine kind, sugar, not the women’s libbers.  (I dare say Desi guys feel the same, so posting your little “SWF seeks Desi man for friendship, eventual matrimony” personal ad over at Sepia Mutiny may not exactly get you many replies without a major re-write, but listen, here’s a possible solution:  we’ve got an Asian-wannabe here named Birch Barlow who’s ... well, white, BUT ... wait a minute, BUT (before you storm off) he’s part-Asian ... Yes you heard that right, part Asian ... he never said whether the yellow or the desi kind, but you like both, right?  Well, he’s something like 20% Asian I think he said, so ... if your personal ad gets no takers over at Sepia you might consider giving Birch a tumble — he’s definitely looking, but if ...  if your bra cup-size is anything over A-minus I wouldn’t exactly advertize that fact in front of him ... at least not until you two get to know each other and he can appreciate you for your ... inner qualities, sweetheart (you do have some, right?) ...... GOOD LUCK!

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Posted by Celtic Cultural Genuis (Celt Gene) on October 18, 2008, 01:09 PM | #

Still waiting for Scoobs to give us the stats taken on the IQs of dark skinned desis versus light skinned desis.
Also, the stats on how many dark skinned desis benefit from what he calls “affirmative action” in India, which I assume means reservations for scheduled tribes and castes.  Any stats on how many of those are dark skinned?

The problem with assuming that India’s politics follow the same racial patterns as the USA’S is the fact that India is not comprised of white (euro descent) and black (afro descent) peoples.  This is the same mistake that african-centrist psuedo scientists make when trying to engage Indian people in the pro-dalit movement.  India’s politics are not about race or color but about caste.

Anyway, as he is not Indian and has never been to India then it’s OK that he wouldn’t know any of this, it’s not expected that he would.  But then he needs to be quiet on matters of which he knows nothing and not put forth an uninformed opinion that makes him look mentally challanged and chalks up another example of the “stupid American” to foreigners.  He probably doesn’t, but I travel alot, all around the world, and I don’t need that stereotype following me wherever I go.  Remember Scooby, the www is not called the WORLD wide web for nothin’.  We got smart people from all over the globe surfing it so rep your country well please!

131

Posted by Celtic Gene on October 18, 2008, 01:16 PM | #

“when trying to engage Indian people in the pro-dalit movement” should read, “when trying to engage people (especially African descent) in the pro-dalit movement”.

Birch Barlow?  I’m picky.  Does he have a pic posted anywhere?  And I don’t have an Asian fetish (like many middle aged to old American white guys), I will take culture over ethnic background anyday, but my observation is that Asians of any type tend to be much more cultured and mannered than white and black and latino Americans.  Though I’m open to meeting those also, provided they have culture and manners.

132

Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 18, 2008, 01:59 PM | #

“but my observation is that Asians of any type tend to be much more cultured and mannered than white and black and latino Americans.  Though I’m open to meeting those also, provided they have culture and manners.”

Look, what about Mike Tyson, hun?  I know, I know, I know, a high-pitched voice is a turn-off in a guy, I realize that ..... but he’s available and I heard he’s recently taken some charm-school classes.  Yeah, Miss Hotchkiss’s — word is he no longer date rapes the girl within the first five minutes of her entering the room, he gives her about fifteen minutes to “get ready” now.  Then there’s 50 Cent, André 3000, Sleepy Brown ... HEY what about Xzibit!!  He’s got a two-thousand-five-hundred-word vocabulary, sweetie!!  (Well, that’s “reading” vocabulary ... it’s only two-thousand “spoken” but this is no time to be difficult, Celtic ....)

133

Posted by Celt Cult Gene Express on October 18, 2008, 02:56 PM | #

I’ve heard of Mike Tyson but have no idea who the other folks you mentioned are.  And I guess you just proved my point with what you wrote….....

How many times have you been divorced Scoobs?  How many “relationships” have you run through?  I highly doubt you are a once married honest family man with good job.  If you were, you’d have no time to spend on this blog.

134

Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 18, 2008, 03:10 PM | #

It’s Melba who keeps me coming back.

135

Posted by Paleo Mike on March 20, 2009, 08:44 PM | #

This is priceless.  Razib Khan is a driveling fool.

http://www.vdare.com/rushton/070926_indians.htm

136

Posted by whistleblower on March 28, 2009, 11:05 AM | #

Posted by friedrich braun on January 12, 2006, 05:49 AM | #

(btw, I don’t have any qualms in plainly stating that I view East Indians and other sub-continentals as clearly inferior to White Europeans and their descendants)

btw I dont have any qualms in plainly stating that I view you as a JOKER either!

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