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Oddo’s Bodkin: Or, not to mince words.A strange wind is blowing from Norway….New York City Councilman James Oddo will have none of it. Posted by Søren Renner on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 at 10:40 AM in Humour Comments:2
Posted by vanspeyk on October 10, 2007, 02:01 PM | # He acted incredibly rude. If he suspected that it was a non-serious interview he could´ve just ended it without resulting to swearing and threats. There is a difference between ´not taking any shit´ and acting like a complete asshole like this guy did. The woman was very attractive, though. 4
Posted by Guessedworker on October 10, 2007, 07:04 PM | # Her name is Pia Haraldsen. Soren is available for an interview and, fortunately, doesn’t know any words of less than twenty-five letters. 5
Posted by John on October 10, 2007, 07:27 PM | # He took his coat off and threatened her as if she were a man! I think maybe he takes politics to serious? Hun er ganske pen. Er hun en venn til deg? 6
Posted by danielj on October 10, 2007, 08:54 PM | # What the fuck? Slandering Italians is acceptable here GW? 7
Posted by ben tillman on October 10, 2007, 11:25 PM | # Hun er ganske pen. Er hun en venn til deg? I got the rest, but what does “pen” mean? 8
Posted by Like the ADL for Italians on October 10, 2007, 11:26 PM | # I second danielj. What the fuck? GW? Calling guidos guidos is slandering Italians. You need to delete that fucking comment right the fuck now and ban the motherfucker thats saying guido. I’m connected and shit. Capishe [sic]? 9
Posted by JYC on October 10, 2007, 11:34 PM | # He took his coat off and threatened her as if she were a man! Oddo seems to direct the profanities at the off-camera accomplice (probably the guy taping the episode). You can tell cuz he’s speaking in another direction, and the girl just stares up bemused, not at all fearful. 10
Posted by silver on October 11, 2007, 12:35 AM | # danielj, you don’t get it, do you? You’re not one of them! You may think you are, you may desperately want to be, but ultimately it’s not you who will decide. Come on, you’ve been told point-blank to your face that the presence of your ilk—the “guidos”—in the US has been a “net negative”. Just accept it. You think those nordics who become racially conscious and begin to “live white” would consider this James Oddo guy as one of their own? Not a chance. Nordics who avoid negroes like the plague, and even admit to themselves they do, of course find you infinitely more acceptable, but when the penny really drops, and they realize who they are and what is going on, you’re out. The Jared Taylors only make a pretence of inclusiveness towards Italians and Jews for tactical purposes; it’s so they can say they’re not just old-style North American racists making the same old case anew (a distasteful one, for which many nordics brings up memories/images of police-dogs snarling at freedom marchers), this is a position they’ve supposedly only reluctantly backed into, given the obvious failures of fourty, fifty years race-relations efforts (had those efforts succeeded, they’d have people believe, they wouldn’t now be complaining). Pure eyewash, of course. If you think there’s any place for you in the hoped for “white homeland”, more the fool you are. This is their fight, at least lets be clear on that. It doesn’t matter that all these long years you thought you were one of them. It doesn’t matter that your predecessors may have been in the US for a hundred years. Race is race and nordic is nordic, and when nordics become conscious, it’s their nordishness they become conscious of. Look, your kinfolk—your real kinfolk, other Sicilians, and then Italians—here in Australia, and in Canado, too, understand the stakes. Yes, Australia and Canada would have been far more pleasant countries without the hoardes of Muslims, negroes and asians now entering, but Australia and Canada would have also been far more pleasant countries without hoardes of Italians or Greeks (or Serbs, like me), too. The fact is the nordics who you think welcome you with open arms are the very same ones saying all the nice things about negroes and mestizos. You, they actually can embrace; the negro is still something they can only talk about embracing, and hope to embrace, but “something” holds them back from really being able to it (in any significant way). The nordics who never even pretended to like negroes are the ones who, deep down, don’t think much of you, either; you’re not one of them, you’re simply more acceptable, and since they have bigger fish to fry with the negro, they leave you alone (for now), or just string you along. If you were in Cronulla in December 2005 you’d know which side you are really on. You, I bet, would love to think you’d have been there alongside the aussie patriots hurling invective at the Lebanese. And yes, some of the aussies protesting the Lebanese on cultural grounds would have accepted you, and the ones protesting on racial grounds might not have attacked you (depending on how Mediterrean you look), but I can guarantee you the Lebanese would have left you completely alone in the reprisal attacks; even if you’re not visibly identifiable as Sicilian at all, two words, “I’m Italian”, and they’d have left you right alone (or, if you looked like a young tough yourself, invited you to “let’s get ‘em” with them). In this view, Italians, Greeks, “Balkaners” are just “less effective Jews”. The key is to keep Italy, Greece etc free of negroes and muslims while at the same time promoting our own presence in nordic lands as a positive for the nords. Jews are obviously the past masters at such chicanery, but the “white ethnics” in Australia and Canada don’t do too bad a job of imitating them. In fact, as it pertains to our presence in nordic lands, we don’t even need to imitate them; Jews do the job for us. Where we fail is in protecting our ancestral homelands: Italy and Greece are quickly filling up, and, I fear, Serbia, as the economy strengthens, will only follow suit. Everyone plays this game, not just the “white ethnics”—look at Mexico. It’s just that with the white ethnics it is easier to con the nordics that your presence is beneficial to them. Mexicans can only pass themselves off as beneficial by claiming to do the dirty work whites won’t do. (Though, when it comes to “cleansing” neighborhoods of negroes, there’s much truth to this.) Obviously “something” needs to be done to arrest the civilizational decline, but I would be extremely leery of upfront racialism if I were you (at least with members outside your own (or related) ethny). 11
Posted by ben tillman on October 11, 2007, 12:59 AM | # danielj, you don’t get it, do you? You’re not one of them! Silver, you’re an idiot. We don’t get to decide who is one of us. Our enemies have decided that for us. Of course, that doesn’t mean that Italians can’t have territory free of Englishmen or vice versa. But we have to cooperate. 12
Posted by silver on October 11, 2007, 01:47 AM | # Tillman, I can accept that you have enemies in common, foremost among them the negro. But at least you could be frank and let the Italian know that it’s only a temporary alliance—“cooperation”—you seek, not that you for one minute consider him one of your own. Since this “cooperation”, if it’s to mean much in the long run, will require some sort of separation or segregation, the Italian needs to know where he stands. 13
Posted by desmond jones on October 11, 2007, 02:45 AM | # It’s amusing to see the constant cracks in the alleged solidarity of amorphous “white” America. OBL and his henchmen alledely fly a big ol’ jet plane into the Twin Towers and an American fireman tells OBL to kiss his Royal “Irish” ass. And then daniel whose people dwelled in the US for a century, cries foul, in defence of his Italianess, when the term guido (which is entirely an American construct that describes the mannerisms and fashion sense of a particular male, could be of Irish, Russian or Italian descent, resident predominantly in New Jersey not Staten Island and has nothing to do with continental Italians)is used. If you call someone a cracker, do the Scots/Irish in NI get pissed? Does Johnny Canuck really care if the term limey is used as a slight against his English cousin? Does the term damn Skippy offend a US Anglo? Silveric needs to drop the other shoe. When his Serb brethren migrate to OZ and free ride off the founding Anglo ethny they should say upfront that look guys, we hate you Skippy bastards, we’re only here to advance our own ethnic interests and we will quite happily ally with Jews, Negros, Muslims, Chinese or men from Mars if it serves our ends. Now let us into your country you racist, exclusionist Anglo bastards! 14
Posted by John on October 11, 2007, 05:18 AM | # Pen means pretty (more or less). There’s about five words with different shade of meaning: (skjønn, vakker, nydlig, fager (congnate with english “fair”)). Vakker is the most extreme. I guess Norway has so many vakre jenter that they have finer distinctions. 15
Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 11, 2007, 07:50 AM | # Desmond is basically right, give or take a few things I’d quibble with. The excrement Silver is wrong from A to Z as always. I put Silver in the same “to be ignored” category as Slavyanski only worse. Both are trash but Slavy at least doesn’t consciously play devious identity games. Slavy is a fool and a moron and a damned pest but you don’t get the feeling he’s something unclean the way you do with Silver, as if you need to wash your hands after typing a reply to him, the way you do with Silver. 16
Posted by Rusty on October 11, 2007, 08:45 AM | # I don’t understand. Who was that girl and was she serious? Why was that government servant so incredibly rude? That was a pretty good question about Obama, though! I’m so used to non-Americans claiming to be Americans that I hardly notice it anymore. 17
Posted by Lurker on October 11, 2007, 09:06 AM | # I wonder if we should adopt the homosexual strategy they embraced the word queer. So yes we are crackers, anglos, gringos, skippys etc 18
Posted by silver on October 11, 2007, 10:32 AM | # Desmond, I think I’ve already stated for the record that had I held the reins of power I wouldn’t have done it, I wouldn’t have let anyone in. I would have said then as you gripe now, that whatever the supposed “benefits” of such immigration, they would clearly be outweighed by the risks. But your government did choose to let my kind in. And it wasn’t any sort of indiscriminate, willy-nilly, let-the-world-in policy they settled on (not in the 50s). My kind were supposedly “targeted” as the type—“white” (enough) and Christian—who could be molded into satisfactory Australians. And to that end I gave all I could. Apart from a genuine love of your people, I have a greater appreciation for Australiana than, I daresay, the great majority of Anglos. But there’s one thing I could never give and that thing is nordic features. And that’s why I stayed in touch with my roots (Serbian language and history) because I always knew the anglo could, and probably would, turn his back on me and disregard all that I’d ever done to meet his demands. “When his Serb brethren migrate to OZ and free ride off the founding Anglo ethny they should say upfront that look guys, we hate you Skippy bastards, we’re only here to advance our own ethnic interests and we will quite happily ally with Jews, Negros, Muslims, Chinese or men from Mars if it serves our ends” That’s a funny way to put it. You really think *I* started the hatred, back in kindergarten or primary school? I, the only non-anglo there? Really? Or perhaps, just perhaps, I was the subject of such hatred? Ever think of that? And you know what? I was always prepared to forgive it. It was never anything really serious, anyway. Many others weren’t able to turn the other cheek, and so yes, there was some squabbling. Nothing like Cronulla, of course (not for the most part, but there was an infamous attack on Italian miners back in the 20s that rates a mention). Southern euros were willing to take the mickey out of themselves, too. There was a popular sitcom in the 80s, “Acropolis Now!”, in which Greeks poked some lighthearted fun at immigrant mannerisms . And the same crew then launched various stage productions based on similar themes, like “Wogs Out Of Work” and “Wog-a-rama”. The general feeling is that these shows went a long way towards disarming what was considered stiff anglo resistance to fully integrating southern euros into society. I think at that point there was a real chance of long-term success. Unfortunately, what happened was immigration from the rest of the world was massively increased. So, just as Anglo-Australia had come to accept the souther euros as equals or near-equals, the massive increase in Asians kept immigration in the spotlight. Even though anglo resistance was targeted towards the Asians, the southern euros’ immigrant experiences were still fresh in their minds, and they were suspicious of anglo motives, so they allied themselves with the Asians (and anyone else) as measure of self-defense (certainly not for any love of Cambodians or Egyptians). The Desmond Jones’s don’t make it any easier for a southern euro to care about anglo egi (in whatever terms its broached or couched). It would be one thing if you were on here “reaching out” with even a perfunctory attempt to include us (on “racial compatability” and cultural grounds), a la Jared Taylor. But you don’t even do that. So I don’t see how you can have much cause for complaint. Of course, I wouldn’t trust you no matter what you said. I’ve read too much of nordicist racialism to fall for any false promises you might make. I don’t know why Scrooby gets his panties in a bunch when I state these things openly. At least the more suspicious among you, like you Desmond, get confirmation that it’ll have to be the anglos/nords on their own in this. 19
Posted by Kurt9 on October 11, 2007, 12:35 PM | # Vanspeyk, James Oddo is not being exceptionally rude. He’s just being a typical Noo-Yawker. The bemused look on Pia’s face during his rant and rave was priceless. 20
Posted by Proofreader on October 11, 2007, 12:48 PM | # Silver: I can see clearly through you divisive strategy. You´re probably a government (Far Right Web Watch or some similar pathetic outfit) troll/observer or a NGO anti-racist outright troll. 21
Posted by Anon on October 11, 2007, 12:53 PM | # Regarding the “conflict” between various white ethnic groups: As someone has previously mentioned, racial enemies of whites (whether these whites are Anglo, Italic, Slavic, Celtic, etc…is immaterial) do make make such subtle distinctions. I cannot think of any white ethnic group here in the US that has been free of these assaults by our enemies (She’s Czech, don’t rape her! Only those guido bitches!). Whatever problems white people have with each other pale in comparison to what we as a race are up against. When we hopefully have a society where I can work out problems(waht problems?) with other European ethnics without any other races to attack us, well, then those are problems I want. As for the Anglo/Nords “on their own,” nothing could be further from the truth as many ethnic whites, like the Irish, Italians, Slavs, etc… have had nothing but unpleasant experiences with people of color and might be first in line if that day comes. Bensonhurst comes to mind. 22
Posted by Guido the Killer Pimp on October 11, 2007, 01:07 PM | # Unfortunately Silver is not wrong in this instance, which is surprising considering he is wrong in 99.9% of his views. He is not divisive. Desmond along with some other less vocal Anglo chest thumpers are. Desmond had a role in pushing away JW Holliday, which still is a tragic event to this blog. I find it hilarious to read Desmond railing against those dirty WOPs yet is eerily quiet when it comes to the Paki and Chinaman that has infested his country and his city, specifically. Fuggedabout the Negro in Hogtown who was the cause of the worst gun deaths last year in recent recorded history. With that said, I still will side with the likes of the Desmonds of the world in order to help fend off the third world migration wave. One threat at a time is the motto. Hopefully, when that is accomplished and if Desmond is still interested in purifying his white bread, meat pie city, then he can come a calling. His itch will be scratched one way or another. I’m not Italian, though I liked the moniker. I am one of Desmond’s curs. 23
Posted by silver on October 11, 2007, 01:23 PM | # I think Britons are overwhelmingly nordic, and Aussie patriots would be more than willing to make an exception for those who are not. (I can think of an atlanto-med that I work with; there’s no question he’d be “in”, on Aussie terms.) Serbs would stand out in a crowd of English every bit as much as Portuguese, if not more so. But there you go, you make my argument for me: differences between “whites” are significant and a point of contention and non-nordic, especially, need to be aware of them. So replace “Serb” or “Italian” in my above posts with “Portuguese” and it’s clear that a Portuguese would, at a minimum, need to be weary of what he’s getting mixed up in.
Hell, that last point is the most important. It’s entirely useless for a white ethnic here to claim racial solidarity with an anglo aussie because that is definitely not how aussie racialists see themselves. How about this, I won’t tell you how things work in America, and you back off telling me how they work here, eh? Fair? 25
Posted by Anon on October 11, 2007, 02:05 PM | # Settle down silver. Please let me know where I mentioned Australia in my comment at 4:53 so I do not cause any hurt, insult, anger, offense, etc…in the future. God forbid I ever tell anyone “how things work.” 26
Posted by Fr. John on October 11, 2007, 02:11 PM | # No one has yet clarified if this was a “truly real’ interview, or not. Nevertheless, this crass and vulgar man’s potty mouth is reminiscent of the worst excesses of WOP ethnic stereotyping: from Vinnie on ‘Welcome Back, Kotter’ to the Don Corleones of ‘Godfather’. (Let’s not even talk about the “Sopranos”!!!) I lived and taught in Syracuse, NY for two years. I affectionately called the place “Guidoville;” precisely because, (after living in Rochester, NY, which felt OVERWHELMINGLY ANGLO) ‘Sara-kews’ (as the natives say it!) was so wopp-y, and had such a predominance of dark, dusky, hairy lipped (and those were the women!) “Guidos,” I vowed I’d NEVER want to live there- why, it was hard to pick out the Ashkenazim, from the almost-christian RC’s!!! Not like in California or the Midwest, you betcha! IF this pathetic excuse for a man acts in this fashion, when his gonads are in a vise, then all the stereotypes of south Italians are NOT ‘just’ stereotypes, but factual behavioral patterns that occur on a regular basis. When visiting Naples, it’s ‘kitschy’ and ‘quaint’. But to engage in ‘Cavalleria Rusticana’ in American politics, (a decidedly Anglo-Sxon enterpriese) is merely to be vulgar beyond belief.. frankly, no apology of calling a wop a wop is needed. IT would be merely self-affirming a tautology. Whoo- it reeks of garlic in here… 27
Posted by silver on October 11, 2007, 02:22 PM | # “I lived and taught in Syracuse” Not composition, I hope! 28
Posted by May Canady on October 11, 2007, 07:10 PM | # “I don’t understand. Who was that girl and was she serious?” Her website is piaharaldsen.no she is a Norwegian comedian. The interview was done for a Norwegian TV show called Rikets Røst, which is a satire, much like Jon Stewart’s The Daily Show. 29
Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 11, 2007, 07:37 PM | # I just browsed May Canady’s blog, linked at her signature. This is an unusual woman. 30
Posted by danielj on October 11, 2007, 09:43 PM | # I am not even sure how to address all of the issues but here goes: 1)I’m not entirely Sicilian. In fact, I’m a fraction less then one half. 2)If you have a problem with the language one uses leaving an utterly childish comment including the offending language is - sad to say - predictable for the MR of late whilst being simultaneously nauseating. 3)I don’t want to be “Anglo” and don’t feel like I’m being excluded from some club by not being considered such. 4)I do not think it is okay to slander Italians unless you live in Italy and find them to be unbearable first hand. (Or wherever else they congregate in America and round the globe) Additionally, name calling makes us look very petty.
5)If any of you try to claim that you have never had a rough day and “lost it” you are lying to us and yourselves. People occasionally lose control. The flaring up of faux chivalry incited by the man in the video is very bad acting. (Go stop a white woman from being raped if you care about “your” women so much) 6)Is MR a site for the discussion of Anglo-nationalism? (If so, I see no need for my participation) I don’t understand how one feels an affinity for “Anglos” anyway. It is a god-damned abstraction. Your immediate family and immediate community should indeed be ethnically/genetically homogeneous and one should naturally recoil at it’s weakening or dissolution. But, the idea that there is some sort of ‘love’ or ‘kinship’ between GW and James Bowery is quite strange. How similar does a person have to be to one before they enter into the EGI equation? At what point of Anglo-Americans diverged far enough from their brothers in England to warrant their own EGI equation, or are they forever doomed to lil’ brother status in the New World? Silver, you make some extremely well thought out points. In particular:
Perhaps, Europeans as a whole are too weak to stave off civilizational decline… 31
Posted by Guido the Killer Pimp on October 11, 2007, 10:11 PM | # “How similar does a person have to be to one before they enter into the EGI equation?” Ask Desmond as he has the numbers at his fingertips. Something to the tune of 1 Italian in England displaces 4 Quadrillion Anglos. On the other hand, 1 Negro only displaces 1.5 Anglos. What say ye, Desmond? 32
Posted by Hypersensitive Guido on October 11, 2007, 10:17 PM | # danielj, Explain exactly how the post or the comments preceding your initial comment constitute slander of Italians. 33
Posted by danielj on October 11, 2007, 10:35 PM | # ...Staten Island may be full of guidos, but they don’t take shit. How else could I take that? It doesn’t matter what Euro was being slandered. Take your pick. I have no stake - no “EGI” in the matter. I don’t give one whit about my Italian-ness. I just think Euros shoud have a united front, and I believed that was the purpose of MR. Perhaps I’m wrong and I can accept that. I’m not hypersensitive. I just used the f-bomb inappropriately and made it seem that way. 34
Posted by 1/2danielj & 1/2 guido on October 11, 2007, 10:38 PM | # 1 Negro only displaces 1.5 Anglos. What say ye, Desmond? 1 extremely well-mannered, accented negro? Or 1 Nigerian? 35
Posted by Further Explication on October 11, 2007, 11:02 PM | # Your reaction says more about you than about anyone else who posts at this site. Out of the six comments prior to yours (inclusive of Soren’s original post), one uses the word “guido”. None of the other posts directly or indirectly reference Oddo’s ethnicity. Three of the comments are neutral on Oddo’s behavior, two against (neither of which, again, mentions his ethnic background), and one apparently in favor (the “guido” comment). Northern Europeans do value self-control and civility more highly than some other groups. Read Cuddihy. But the focus of the thread was elsewhere until you rushed in demanding sensitivity toward Italians. I have no stake - no ?EGI? in the matter. I don?t give one whit about my Italian-ness. Forgive me if I don’t take you at your word on this. I’ve seen much harsher language directed toward other national/ethnic groups at MR and I’ve never seen you plead to GW for relief on their behalf. 36
Posted by silver on October 11, 2007, 11:11 PM | # “6)Is MR a site for the discussion of Anglo-nationalism? (If so, I see no need for my participation)” Supposedly the site is intended to discuss the “preservation of Western culture” and European egi. Since the site is in English, of course, the majority here will be from the “anglosphere” (US, Can, Aus, NZ). The majority populations in those countries are “anglos”, or in the case of the US nordics (or “nordish”, to use Richard McCulloch’s term, which makes room for the greater Germanic family). Now, if you are one of them, or if you can pass yourself off as one, you’re on the same page. If not, yes, you are wasting your time.
“Anglo” is shorthand term, not much used in the US, for someone of “Anglo-Celtic” stock; it refers to race. The “abstraction” you may have in mind refers to language/culture.
If that’s the case, then right there you have just admitted that from a nordic perspective, southern and eastern euro immigration to the US was a massive mistake—just as the anti-immigration movement argued at the time. Now, sure, if you’re Italian, it’s far more pleasant to live in an Italian community and have other Italians as neighbors, but how on earth is that of any benefit to the founding nordic stock? “But, the idea that there is some sort of ‘love’ or ‘kinship’ between GW and James Bowery is quite strange. How similar does a person have to be to one before they enter into the EGI equation?” How can that be “strange”? They are the same race; they are nordic; they are of similar enough stock that phenotypic differences cannot be readily detected, which is how race is recognized, which is what race, when you get down to it, is. Why do you think the Brit racialists are up in arms over Polish immigration? It’s not just because Poles lower wages and don’t speak proper English, or because of (legitimate) fears they won’t culturally assimilate (they won’t when they’re not forced to, that’s for sure), it’s because they are phenotypically different. Race is such a salient factor in American life it is constantly discussed to an extent that would amaze an Australian (it amazed me when I lived there; I was very much of the ‘just get over it’ mindset back then). And since in racial discourse southern euros have been “white” in the US for so long, I can understand how you have come to identify with whiteness so completely. Yet Americans at the turn of the century certainly were well aware of the differences, and, as I said, it was the fact of these differences that provided the impetus for the 1924 moratorium. It may be that “culture” can “blind” a person to certain phenotypic differences (but not all differences) but since those differences are biological an “awakened” person can once again come to see them clearly. I imagine someone like this site’s J Richards would have no trouble whatsoever differentiating between southern and northern europeans. As I said, it’s my view that not much is spoken of these differences here (or elsewhere) because it’s considered a tactical blunder; better to have southern euros (and Jews) working for you until your aims are achieved, then you can deal with them separately later. Really, I’m not at all surprised at Jewish rejection of racialist overtures. When racialists reject jews as “semites”, they are rejecting them on the basis of phenotype; absolutely no different to when racialists reject southern or eastern europeans. To me, this is all so obvious that I’m surprised it ever needed to be spelt out. Onto where you might stand in all this. Daniel, if you consider “The key is to keep Italy, Greece etc free of negroes and muslims while at the same time promoting our own presence in nordic lands as a positive for the nords” to be a “well thought out point”, which I take to mean “that sounds like good advice”, then you really do have no business here (as I don’t, either). This is the standard Jewish strategy and it’s precisely what the Kevin McDonalds rail against. I think racially aware southern euros (and Jews) are caught between a rock and a hard place. The west is on the path of steep decline. That’s obvious to all of us. But to attempt to arrest this decline on racialist grounds is very dangerous for them (us, me), because it requires racially awakening nords. But if a nord racially awakens, what is to stop him from getting rid of the southern euro (and the Jew, especially the Jew) in the same fell swoop with which he rids himself of the negro and the rest? You can try to confound him by “limiting” the extent of his awareness, which is basically what Larry Auster is attempting, but I have my doubts about the efficacy of this approach. Then again, Auster has had some success with it. I’ve read some posts on his site that say things like “... and save our homeland for Britons and Jews”, or “...and save our homeland for Britons, and Jews”, which to tends to read like “...and save our homeland for Britons….oh, umm, and Jews”, the “and Jews” being like a guilty afterthought. Of course, Auster doesn’t argue that Jews and Britons are racially indistinguishable (that would never work); he makes a “civilizational” case, in which he argues Jews are a crucial, indispensable part of Western Civilization. This could work, but in that case Russians, Ukrainians etc are out, definitely out. Works out perfectly, doesn’t it? I mean, since eastern euros are some of the most unrepentant antisemites, even when they’re not racially aware. It’s a clever ploy, I’ll grant him that. Unfortunately, I have no such tricks up my sleave. All I can really do is wait it out. I’ve saved up a decent stash of capital, and am working hard to save up even more, so that if or, rather, when the proverbial hits the fan here, I’ll be able to hightail it back to Serbia and have enough to live decently on while fighting the good fight there. Then again, there’s the possibility that things may never hit the fan, and rabble-rousing racialists will be successfully ignored and bottled up or disposed of, with the government finally taking employing some eugenic or anti-dysgenic measures to salvage something of civilization—all this banks on nordic “compassion” overriding any overt racial interests. Whatever happens, I can’t see how things won’t heat up in coming years and decades. I really don’t wanna be around when they do. Reality sucks. Badly. 37
Posted by danielj on October 11, 2007, 11:15 PM | # Saying Staten Island is full of guidos like it is a negative is demeaning. I don’t like the way people talk about Serbs here sometimes either. Forgive me if I don’t take you at your word on this. I’ve seen much harsher language directed toward other national/ethnic groups at MR and I’ve never seen you plead to GW for relief on their behalf. Don’t take my word on it. I really don’t care. I don’t spend my life in front of the computer screen and don’t care. Dig up the records, I don’t care. My point is that if any Europeans are beneath the people here then perhaps the picture in the top left corner of the page should be different. If Italians aren’t wanted, well, then I don’t belong here either since I am 1/2 Italian. What is so hard to understand about that? I already admitted my language was improper. If you want me to say I over reacted I will. I over reacted. Have I let other language pass by that I have read? Sure. I can’t always comment. Sometimes I don’t out of paralyzing fear of being shot down without concern, others out of sheer exhaustion from work and other times because I just don’t. I value self-control more than anything next to my God and wife and fancy myself a novice Stoic. As far as what European group values self-control most, and what European group practices self-control most… Well, I don’t care about that either. Should we as Europeans hold up moderation, self-control and restraint as ideals to be achieved? Certainly. Did the man in the movie practice self-control? Of course he did not in that situation. 38
Posted by silver on October 11, 2007, 11:20 PM | # When I say “Reality sucks, badly” I’m not just being cute. I’m completely and utterly distraught at what I’ve learned about human reality in the past few years. It’s grave, it’s very, very grave. So grave, that I can’t think of anything but safeguarding my own skin. That simply has to be my overriding concern. Daniel, you and others can make what you will of my posts. I think it behooves any non-nord living in nordic lands to give careful consideration of what I say. It’s one thing to get a kick out railing against negroes because it turned out there was a biological basis for doing so all along; it’s another thing indeed to consider the implications of where such loose talk can lead. 39
Posted by danielj on October 11, 2007, 11:20 PM | # I realize now that I am posting without thinking enough again Silver. I will correct some of my thoughts and address your last post before the end of the weekend. Time for bed. 40
Posted by silver on October 11, 2007, 11:22 PM | # Dammit, I meant “get a kick out of railing against negroes”—ie, to do it for fun, for its shock value. 41
Posted by danielj on October 11, 2007, 11:25 PM | # I’m completely and utterly distraught at what I’ve learned about human reality in the past few years. It’s grave, it’s very, very grave. So grave, that I can’t think of anything but safeguarding my own skin. That simply has to be my overriding concern. It’s one thing to get a kick out railing against negroes because it turned out there was a biological basis for doing so all along; it’s another thing indeed to consider the implications of where such loose talk can lead. I don’t care about blacks. Avoiding them entirely (in my life and the life of my mind) is my concern. Getting off on their bad behavior doesn’t factor into my day. Saving up for a plot of land in a remote part of New Hampshire and preparing for the Hell on the way is my primary concern. As you say, saving my own skin has taken preeminence over everything else and has reinvigorated the routine. Nothing like looming political/economic disaster to focus the mind. You may be right about this though. Perhaps I will second on the chopping block after the Negro has his comeuppance. 42
Posted by 2R on October 11, 2007, 11:55 PM | # OK, I’m going to clear up all this Guido business. As a resident of upstate NY, I can confidently bring forth expertise when it comes to these matters. I also attended high school during the peak of the “Guido” period, and know all there is when it comes to this subject. First off all, a “Guido” does not necessary imply Italian, Greek, or other Mediterranean’s. Its simply another sub/popular-cultural identity that was prominent in the early 90’s. The common characteristics was hair gel, gold jewelry, and gaudi clothing. There were many Guido’s who were not Italian and many Italians who were not Guido’s. Guido’s seemed drawn to popular music that usually fell in the “Club” or “Techno” category. With that said, its important to look out for people who wish to separate Euro’s. These types of tactics will increase as the power structure feels our power growing. Like I’ve already pointed out, if a group of people had a website with the purpose of arguing that the moon was made of cheese, I would never visit it to tell them otherwise. No matter how much I knew they were wrong, I would never waste my time. When people come here to tell us that we’re “fighting a loosing battle” you can bet that they fear our rising. I’m of a German/Latvian heritage and consider Italians, French, Portuguese, Serbs, or any other Southern Euro’s to be my brothers and sisters the same as any other Europeans. The fact is danielj IS ONE OF US. The European is a diverse phenotype that is more than just a number within some genetic distance clustering. Its the common history, culture, faith, experience, and most importantly, common challenge of facing extermination that unites us. 43
Posted by silver on October 12, 2007, 12:32 AM | # “I’m of a German/Latvian heritage and consider Italians, French, Portuguese, Serbs, or any other Southern Euro’s to be my brothers and sisters the same as any other Europeans. The fact is danielj IS ONE OF US. The European is a diverse phenotype that is more than just a number within some genetic distance clustering. Its the common history, culture, faith, experience, and most importantly, common challenge of facing extermination that unites us.”
44
Posted by 2R on October 12, 2007, 01:22 AM | # “That’s all very nice 2R. I wonder why southern whites never thought of any of that when they tossed Sicilian school kids in with the negroes?” Whatever has happened to Italians or Irish or Pole’s when they came to America really has no relationship with the present. Sicilians are looked at the same way as the Whitest Icelander by the race-replacers. Mestizo’s and Negro’s have had, and do have, plenty of issues among themselves in America. What they ALWAYS come together on is their hatred for the White race. Mestizo’s are literally ethnically cleansing Negro’s from their communities in California and while this happens, the black elite still votes in favor of illegal immigration and pretty much always sides against White interests. I think you’re from Australia so I can excuse your ignorance of the situation in America but this is how it is here. Our enemies have defined us, and unfortunately for YOU, you’re one of US. Your fear of Nordics “coming after you last” has no base in reality. I don’t care for Nazi’s but if there’s one thing we can learn from them is that no part of the European world can defeat our enemies alone. It has to be together. Had the Nazi’s treated the Eastern Europeans with some respect in 1941, our current enemies would be drinking Manishevitz in Madagascar right now. For some reason you’re under the impression that when things turn bad in the future your “Southern Europeaness” is going to save you or your love-ones from the Orc hordes. Your wrong, this is ney-dobro. Whether you like it or not, we’re in this together, drug. 45
Posted by desmond jones on October 12, 2007, 02:27 AM | # What say ye, Desmond? You’d better hurry up with that Guido, ‘cause your Italian cousins are being pushed out of their neighbourhood. Not that it will ever stop them voting for the “Immigrant Party”.
The thing is, why doesn’t Silveric leave those damn evil Aussies behind now and return to his beloved Serbia. Surely the standard of living is just as high in Serbia, no?And what’s money really when he’s helping to salvage the well-being of his own people? How ‘bout Silvy old boy? Make a break for it now and leave Skippy and his Roos to their misbegotten means. 46
Posted by 2R on October 12, 2007, 02:39 AM | # “Silver: I can see clearly through you divisive strategy. You´re probably a government (Far Right Web Watch or some similar pathetic outfit) troll/observer or a NGO anti-racist outright troll. “
The power structure is having a harder time making White Racialists out to be buck-tooth-trailer-trash-naziswhowanttokillsixmillionjews. Because of this, they have to be a little more creative with their tactics. So hence, we have “silver.” Who probably picked his “Serbian” identity because White Nationalism has traditionally been sympathetic to the Serbian cause. So, silverwitz, whatever you are, its not going to work. In fact, I’ll admit that my sister is married to a Southern European (Romanian), and I have no problem calling him family. Or my 2 nephews. So, how about you, along with your troll buddy Slavyanskowitz go away. High O’ Silverwitz….Go Away!!!!!!!! 47
Posted by Matra on October 12, 2007, 02:47 AM | # A question to those who say “our enemies define us”: What about Jews? For all the hostility Jews have displayed towards whites it’s still pretty clear that non-whites lump Jews into the white category. Israel is called a colonialist apartheid state by the Third World. The Iranian president is cheered by non-white students at Columbia despite (because?) of his views on Israel and the holocaust. Last year when a Jewish college student was murdered by blacks in Queens, New York, the last words he heard from his killers were “get the white boy.” Jews are included as white when statistics are gathered on diversity and when blacks bitch about a vanilla ruling class they rarely distinguish between the Cohens and the Joneses. 48
Posted by danielj on October 12, 2007, 03:55 AM | # Not to mention, our enemies the jews, lump us all into one category… 49
Posted by Proofreader on October 12, 2007, 06:04 AM | # Silver: I assume they also make exceptions for any European who´s not too exotic in Australian terms. The British phenotypic range is quite wide.
Why? Because of theirgreater height? LOL! I meant to say the following: place an average Serb in a crowd of Aussies. He would pass unnoticed, no question about it. But there you go, you make my argument for me: differences between “whites” are significant and a point of contention and non-nordic, especially, need to be aware of them. So replace “Serb” or “Italian” in my above posts with “Portuguese” and it’s clear that a Portuguese would, at a minimum, need to be weary of what he’s getting mixed up in. Of course, differences between Whites are significant, because Europe is a varied place. Europeans are well aware of those differences. The point is, those differences are clinal: there´s nowhere in Europe where you can cross a national border or a natural boundary such as a river or a mountain, and suddenly find yourself facing a totally alien people. The sharpest differences you would find are religious or linguistic, but the core European ethnicity is indeed real, rooted in history, genes and culture. Now, in Australia or the USA, all those gradual and subtle features that differ between Euros seem starker because what you find are Euros from totally different parts of Europe. You lose the fine distinctions and the transitional populations. To a Frenchman or a Central European (who can be said to occupy central positions) Southern and Northern Euros are equally exotic. Nothing of what you said precludes European solidarity and cooperation. There do seem to be issues in European colonial outposts such as Canada, USA and Australia, which can be easily explained as I pointed out and hopefully resolved. For instance, when the USA turn less than 50% White in 10 years (mark my words), do you think German Americans are going to eye suspiciously their 1/4 Italian neighbour? Or Irish Americans their fellow Serbian Americans? No, they´ll start to fear the non-European hordes that are thronging their once great country. Europeans are both diverse and at the same time form a single ethnic group, for all practical purposes. 50
Posted by Matra on October 12, 2007, 02:20 PM | # Slandering Italians is acceptable here GW? Where are Italians being slandered? Was a post removed? 51
Posted by danielj on October 12, 2007, 03:57 PM | # No. I over reacted and misunderstood apparently. Although, after that initial mistake of mine, there does some to be some disparging of Southern/Eastern Euros going on but not in a horribly crude or invalid manner. 52
Posted by platinum on October 12, 2007, 06:58 PM | # “I wonder why southern whites never thought of any of that when they tossed Sicilian school kids in with the negroes? “ Interesting that an Australian Serb is aware of isolated incidents that took place in the American South at the beginning of the last century. Or did you read that in American Renaissance? You do seem familiar with Jared Taylor. “This is the standard Jewish strategy and it’s precisely what the Kevin McDonalds rail against. “ And familiar with Kevin MacDonald also, we see. “and the Jew, especially the Jew” I was not aware that Serbs were so concerned with the well being of Jews. Am I correct that you initially stated that you were of South Asian ancestry, and later changed your story to being Serbian? Any explanation for that? 53
Posted by silver on October 13, 2007, 02:02 AM | # “For some reason you’re under the impression that when things turn bad in the future your “Southern Europeaness” is going to save you or your love-ones from the Orc hordes. Your wrong, this is ney-dobro. Whether you like it or not, we’re in this together, drug.” I’m under no such impression, which is why I’m no supporter of mass (indeed, of any) immigration. I just don’t protest it on openly racial grounds, and am opposed to racializing society in general. This is a viable strategy for Australia. The US may have sunk a bit too far, mainly because of the negroes that were always there, to prevent such racialization. Nevertheless, did I live in the US I would still oppose it. Also, to be perfectly frank about it, I do believe souther euros do have less to fear from hispanics—indeed, I’d even say they have nothing to fear. Google up these names of “prominent” southern european Australians and judge for yourself: George Kapiniaris, Nick Giannopoulos, John Mangos, Alex Dimitriades, Anthony Callea, Mark Philippoussis, Andrew Orsatti, Vince Sorrenti.
“In fact, I’ll admit that my sister is married to a Southern European (Romanian), and I have no problem calling him family. Or my 2 nephews. “ And there you have it.
It’s really not all that beloved at all. But it is somewhere I could take refuge. The truth is I prefer the company of the anglos you, for some reason believe I despise, many times over that of a Serb, especially a Serb back in the Old Country. But if your folks decide to hate me no matter what I do, well, I’ll have to save my skin one way or another.
What do you mean a “crowd of aussies”? A crowd of all european descended Australians, or only Anglo-Saxon or “anglo-celtic” aussies? The former would be true but pointless; the latter could not be more wrong. Are you an aussie? If not, I think I’ll trust my own lying eyes and personal experiences, if you don’t mind.
If you take into account all the factors that make for a “single ethnic group”, I think you’d have to include Armenians and Georgians, too (as well as other Caucasian Christians). The unwillingness to do so—or shall we pretend otherwise—would seem to give lie to your case. “Interesting that an Australian Serb is aware of isolated incidents that took place in the American South at the beginning of the last century. Or did you read that in American Renaissance? You do seem familiar with Jared Taylor.” It’s called being “widely read”. Now that you mention him, Taylor’s an interesting case, and one worth discussing briefly. The extraordinary pains he goes to present himself as the epitome of the “honorable White Man” really only make his mendacity all the more conspicuous—once you know what to look for. As I said about him, he tried what he probably thought was his best to establish an European-American-wide front. The effort has failed, or is failing, and it’s because his heart was never really in it. For example, at the dog and pony show that was the inaugural “American Renaissance Conference” he trotted out a lineup which included a Father Ronald Tacelli and a Rabbi Mayer Schiller. Tacelli quickly realized what was up and in a later Amren article denounced racialism, and Schiller hasn’t been heard from for years. Larry Auster, too, concluded that Taylor was never really interested in his ilk. Taylor’s a nordicist to the bone and if he really is as honorable as loves to make out he is, he should come forward and admit it.
Probably, they are not. I don’t claim to speak for all Serbs. I like to think I’m realistic about them, and being realistic hardly means what the typical MR-ite thinks it does. “Am I correct that you initially stated that you were of South Asian ancestry, and later changed your story to being Serbian? Any explanation for that?” Yes, I was kidding around. This site is revolting in so many ways. I was interested in seeing what sort of reception a Subcon might receive, whether he’d be personally addressed in the sort of tones in which he is discussed. I’ve since come to accept that certain points can only be made in strong language, which makes the revulsion I feel reading some of the only slightly easier to bear. If you’re looking to “expose” me as something or other, you’re wasting your time.
Why was the topic ever posted in the first place? What was the point of it? 54
Posted by 2R on October 13, 2007, 02:53 AM | # “And there you have it.” What is this supposed to mean? If you’re concerned with my use of the word “admit” then let me clarify. I don’t usually talk about my personal life on the Internet. I don’t mind talking about personal experiences, but I don’t like talking about family, or my appearance, or where I live. So if that’s what your talking about, I’ll re-state the statement now. My sister is married to a Southern European and I have two nephews who they created. I don’t even think twice about their ethnicity. However, if either of my sisters married or even dated a non-white, there’s a good chance my seat would be empty at Christmas dinner. Thankfully this would never happen, although we were never raised as racialists, we did have a lot of exposure to the “old country” which can make a lot of difference in the perceptions of ones ethnicity. “In the inaugural issue of The Occidental Quarterly….............” Again, I find it very unlikely that someone who is not a racialist would even know of the Occidental Quarterly. This is, unless they are paid to read such things? If you want to believe that we’re going to “get you last” then go ahead. Its too bad you think this but it seems we can’t change your mind. So since we can’t change your mind, then how about you stop posting here? I haven’t been around the WN movement for long but I can tell you I’ve never seen really any anti-Southern attitudes. Just like Slavyanskowitz, I’m going to have to ignore you because I truly believe you have bad intentions for being here. If you oppose us so much, I can’t figure out why you come here so much? My best guess is that you intend on splitting Southern Euro’s away from their brothers and sisters to the North. Like I said earlier, I don’t know the situation in Australia but in America a White person is a White person. We all have our backs against the wall here. So since I feel you have bad intentions, I can no longer waste time with someone who I feel is a trouble maker. All I ask is that you tell us why you come here when you don’t support what we’re trying to achieve? After you explain this, please, just go away. 55
Posted by Steve Edwards on October 13, 2007, 03:01 AM | # “What do you mean a “crowd of aussies”? A crowd of all european descended Australians, or only Anglo-Saxon or “anglo-celtic” aussies? The former would be true but pointless; the latter could not be more wrong. Are you an aussie? If not, I think I’ll trust my own lying eyes and personal experiences, if you don’t mind.” This is true to the last word. An Anglo-Saxon or Celtic Australian (i.e. the original “Australians”) would never “not notice” a Serbian in their crowd. There are so many differences in phenotype, it’s impossible to know where to start. Silver - do continue posting here. I think you have had some very important things to say. And it’s a shame that unnecessary hostility has poisoned the proceedings. 56
Posted by Desmond Jones on October 13, 2007, 03:07 AM | # “The truth is I prefer the company of the anglos…” You sanctimonious mendacious bastard. This whole thread has been about you dripping venom on every Nordicist’s desire to preserve their own people. You’ve couched every effort in that vein as hateful, simply because it excludes you. Of course it’s not about hate, it’s about survival of traits that have taken thousands of years to develop. However, you, like so many of your “ilk” can’t recognise that because you could care less about anybody but yourself. You don’t even care about your own people. Serbia’s only a place of refuge if your maudlin “poor me” sentimentalities are ineffective. God help those Aussie Anglos that hang with you. You’re nothing but an emotional Vampire sucking out their life force, their natural desire to survive as a unique entity. 57
Posted by platinum on October 13, 2007, 05:00 AM | # “Again, I find it very unlikely that someone who is not a racialist would even know of the Occidental Quarterly. This is, unless they are paid to read such things?” Exactly, that’s the key point. The more “silver” writes, the more suspicious one gets. This is not being “widely read”, my friend. Believe me, there are plenty of people in America and Australia who are very “widely read” and who have never heard of the inter-ethnic esoterica of the early 20th century American South, nor are aware of the debates that have taken place at “The Occidental Quarterly.” There are, I can assure you, only two classes of people aware of, and interested in, TOQ: (1) racialists/nationalists, and (2) the SPLC/GNXP grouping of white haters. You would like us to believe that “widely read” Australian Serbs - who agonize “Hamlet fashion” over their non-nordic features and their unrequited love for anglos - “just happen to be” well versed in their intricacies of political philosophies of TOQ and the details of Jared Taylor’s belief systems. We do not need to “expose” you, you are doing quite a good job of that yourself. Of course, “silver” does bring up some valid issues of that there is no doubt. The problem is how he uses these issues to promote a particular agenda, and the motivation for doing so. It is somewhat difficult to believe it is because he is “fearful of human nature”, etc. “You don’t even care about your own people. Serbia’s only a place of refuge if your maudlin “poor me” sentimentalities are ineffective. God help those Aussie Anglos that hang with you. You’re nothing but an emotional Vampire sucking out their life force, their natural desire to survive as a unique entity. “ Why Desmond Jones takes at face value every comment that any person leaves on these threads is a mystery. “Silver - do continue posting here.” Once he is honest and upfront about what he is all really about. If Steve Edwards really takes at face value that an Australian Serb has intricate knowledge of the American racial scene just by being “widely read”, the Steve is disappointedly naive. Let us assume for a moment that “silver” is exactly who and what he claims (that is the Serb claim, not the earlier “joke” of being South Asian). The major lesson learned from this is that any enemy of racial preservation, any person hostile to this blog, can come on board as a commentator, and, with several carefully crafted commentaries, stir up enormous dissension, ill will, and flame wars. Credit to “silver” for recognizing that this blog is the perfect place to do so. And that’s not his fault, is it? 58
Posted by platinum on October 13, 2007, 05:47 AM | # “and one worth discussing briefly” And he then proceeds to write an entire paragraph oozing with hostility toward Taylor and Taylor’s “mendacity.” Interesting. It’s entirely possible (who knows?) that “silver” is correct about Taylor. That’s not the point though. Taylor has, as far as I know, never wrote, said, or implied any hostility toward Serbs whatsoever, and the degree to which “silver” can barely hide his extreme animus toward Taylor is thought-provoking. I can in fact think of one online commentator who has in fact previously revealed a deep personal bitterness toward Jared Taylor for racial reasons (and no, it had nothing to do with Serbs) and who, interestingly enough, constantly had an agenda which overlaps with that of “silver” remarkably. These coincidences do not of course “prove” anything one way or another. They do however: (1) raise the point as to why MR’s regular commentators are so quick to take at face value every comment left here, without at least wondering if things are not as they seem, and (2) even if things are “as they seem”, it points out that individuals hostile to what this blog ostensibly represents (and are in fact “revolted” by it) share certain diagnostic characteristics. The sharper minded among the commentariat here should be able to discern what these fears and obsessions have as their implications for racialism. By the way, with respect to previous threads about Canada and white ethnics: it is surprising that the only difference anyone can think of between the USA and Canada is the greater historical presence of blacks in the former. Both nations had roughly similar founding stocks. But the USA defined itself by revolution against Great Britain and created an independent identity separated from the mother country. The history of Canada has been quite different in these respects, no? Who is, by the way, the formal head of state of Canada? From my understanding it is the “queen of Canada”, who “just happens to be” the same woman who is the Queen in the UK. The point is, assimilation to the USA required assimilation to the USA, while assimilation to Canada - and here I talk of the old, historical Canada - also required some degree of assimilation to Great Britain as well. Given that the French population there was unable to make that adjustment and never assimilated (unlike the French population taken on after the LA purchase in the USA), it was always highly unlikely that other European ethnics were ever going to do so. Ethnically, both the USA and Canada started out as, roughly, equally British, but they quicky diverged politically and historically. I believe that one fundamental difference between the USA and Canada/Australia is the degree to which the latter are identified as being, essentially, British colonies historically, while the USA was always thought of as quite different. 59
Posted by platinum on October 13, 2007, 06:04 AM | # “with the government finally taking employing some eugenic or anti-dysgenic measures to salvage something of civilization” Interested in euegnics also, I see. I am thinking that perhaps Taylor is not the only one who needs to drop the “medacity” and act “honorable.” 60
Posted by platinum on October 13, 2007, 06:13 AM | # “I can think of an atlanto-med that I work with…” And also familair with terms from traditional physical anthropology which, today, are unknown to the “widely read” population but which are known to both racialists and racially aware anti-racialists alike. Here’s an experiment for the MR commentariat. Go find some “widely read”, well educated and knowledgeable people you know. Friends, family, coworkers, students, teachers, etc. Not the “common man”, but the most intelligent and “widely read” people you know. Aim for the top. Then inquire if they have ever heard of “The Occidental Quarterly” and past debates therein, ever heard of Jared Taylor, know what the term “atlanto-mediterranean” means, are aware of Sicilian schoolchildren being place in black schools in the south 100 years ago, etc. I am confident that the most “widely read” and highly educated people you know - assuming that they are not themselves racialists - won’t have the slightest idea what you are talking about. For this is specialized knowledge, highly specialized - not something someone gets from being “widely read”, but instead, from a narrow and sharp focus on racialist, particularly American racialist, thought. 61
Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 13, 2007, 06:25 AM | # Desmond’s words are far, far too kind. This character is a genuinely bad actor, a really sicko twisted piece of excrement. Everyone can’t see that??? This guy is a devious slimy dishonest piece of bona fide filth. This specimen actually makes an intellectual lowlife and moral leper like GC look like a gentleman in comparison. He’s something on the level of that venom-spitting psycho, Robert Lindsay, only more viscous, more unclean. For the first time ever, I believe, I have a significant disagreement with Steve Edwards. Everything about this guy is what you step in by accident in the street after someone walking his dog has passed by. People here want to bandy words with that??? Can’t be done. All you can do is scrape it off the bottom of your shoe and be on your way. You think you’re going to get somewhere? You’re going to get more of this viper’s hissing, more of this dog mess’s stink. 62
Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 13, 2007, 06:32 AM | # “Platinum” lives up to his name: his posts are pure platinum. 63
Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 13, 2007, 07:03 AM | # I posted my last comment without yet having read any of Platinum’s last few posts. I only read them after. Compared to Platinum’s fine dissections my post was clumsy and crude like a bludgeon. I apologize. I wouldn’t have written it that way had I seen the higher tone set by Platinum. I wouldn’t have posted anything, since I’m averse to touching excrement in great detail. That Platinum did what he did is to be admired and respected the way we admire and respect those medical personnel who carefully go through a patient’s feces looking for clues, in order to make a medical diagnosis. 64
Posted by platinum on October 13, 2007, 11:03 AM | # “This specimen actually makes an intellectual lowlife and moral leper like GC look like a gentleman in comparison.” An interesting comment, in more ways than one. 65
Posted by silver on October 13, 2007, 11:05 AM | # 2R, by “there you have it” I meant that it’s precisely because you have a Romanian in the family that you look kindly on Romanians and other southern Europeans. The term I used in a previous thread was “inured”. Would you at least grant that hadn’t you had Romanians in the family you might take a less charitable view of them? “If you oppose us so much, I can’t figure out why you come here so much? My best guess is that you intend on splitting Southern Euro’s away from their brothers and sisters to the North. “
“Silver - do continue posting here. I think you have had some very important things to say. And it’s a shame that unnecessary hostility has poisoned the proceedings.” I’m certainly partly to blame for some of the hostility I’ve engendered, with some of the unbecoming remarks I made when I first posted on this site. (For which Scrooby has never forgiven me.) Cooler heads than Scrooby’s should understand that those remarks resulted from the fear any sane man would feel upon realising his very existence could be considered forfeit. “This is true to the last word. An Anglo-Saxon or Celtic Australian (i.e. the original “Australians”) would never “not notice” a Serbian in their crowd. There are so many differences in phenotype, it’s impossible to know where to start.”
Whatever “hatred” you have inferred can have been no more than the hatred an innocent victim might feel for his executioner; though I charge that you have misread me and the venom exists only in your mind. “However, you, like so many of your “ilk” can’t recognise that “ I can recognise it. What you need to understand is that your approach to it is unnatural, is unprecedented. If I am “sucking out [the] life force” of Anglo Aussies simply by existing in the same territorial jurisdiction, we’re all in uncharted territory here. A reasonable man might take that into account. I like to believe that I’ve done right by Anglo Australians in every way that a man can, short of giving them the rope to with which to hang me (which, apparently, is required of me). Edwards, you are on record here as saying that you could support a foreign element up to perhaps some 5% of the population. Have you ever given thought to what might qualify one for membership in that 5%? Or can you give an example of an alien that today qualifies? Please name some names. “You don’t even care about your own people. Serbia’s only a place of refuge if your maudlin “poor me” sentimentalities are ineffective.” Of course I care about them: “Serbia” wouldn’t be much of a refuge without Serbs. As for my “maudlin sentimentalities”, you might forgive a person being effusive in pleading with the executioner that he’s got the wrong man. 66
Posted by ben tillman on October 13, 2007, 11:05 AM | # That’s all very nice 2R. I wonder why southern whites never thought of any of that when they tossed Sicilian school kids in with the negroes? When and where did that happen? It sounds like a fabrication. When forced to choose between black & white, the Texas government categorized Mexican mestozos as white. 67
Posted by silver on October 13, 2007, 11:07 AM | # Platinum, don’t run away, I’ll deal with your points in just a moment. 68
Posted by platinum on October 13, 2007, 11:26 AM | # “When and where did that happen? It sounds like a fabrication. “ That was in a relatively recent issue of American Renaissance; a book review by Taylor. Whatever stories “silver” invents, he most likely read it there. “Platinum, don’t run away, I’ll deal with your points in just a moment. “ I’m not “running away.” I do wonder why you need a “moment” to “deal” with the “points”; need to get the story straight? 69
Posted by silver on October 13, 2007, 11:32 AM | # “Exactly, that’s the key point. The more “silver” writes, the more suspicious one gets. This is not being “widely read”, my friend. Believe me, there are plenty of people in America and Australia who are very “widely read” and who have never heard of the inter-ethnic esoterica of the early 20th century American South, nor are aware of the debates that have taken place at “The Occidental Quarterly.”” Okay, perhaps “widely read” wasn’t the right way to put it. I’ve simply read a great deal on race. For example, I’ve read every issue of Amren and TOQ—most of them on multiple occasions. It’s the kind of thing you do when you believe ideas are fomenting that would place your life in peril.
Now you’re just blabbering. Firstly, I’ve never sniffed about any “unrequited love”; it’s obviously because I do feel I share mutual affection with Anglos that I’m concerned about forces that would imperil it. Secondly, why couldn’t an Australian Serb [Why not “Serbian-Australian”? Tellingly phrased, perhaps] belong to either [1] or [2]? Why the mystery? The rest of your “dissection” basically insinuates that I should come clean and “admit” I am Jew, right? Well, I can’t do that because I’m not! I don’t think I owe you much in the way of explanations (think of what a similar “dissection’ of your own postings would reveal), but I’ll try to establish both my Serbian and Australian credentials. A few posts ago 2R addressed me as “drug”, which means comrade or friend. In addressing me, he should have used the vocative form, which is “druze” (pronounced “druzhe”). It’s a term of address not so much used since the fall of communism. “The point is, assimilation to the USA required assimilation to the USA, while assimilation to Canada - and here I talk of the old, historical Canada - also required some degree of assimilation to Great Britain as well. “ This is true of Australia, too. I recall being made to sing “God Save the Queen” In addition to Advance Australia Fair) at school assemblies into the 80s (the practise was since dropped). 70
Posted by silver on October 13, 2007, 11:35 AM | # “I’m not “running away.” I do wonder why you need a “moment” to “deal” with the “points”; need to get the story straight?” I said that for your convenience. Presumably you’d be interesed in what I had to say in response to your comments, and since I’d already posted once without addressing you I thought, on seeing that you’d also recently posted, I’d inform you that another post was forthcoming. 71
Posted by platinum on October 13, 2007, 12:25 PM | # “For example, I’ve read every issue of Amren and TOQ—most of them on multiple occasions. It’s the kind of thing you do when you believe ideas are fomenting that would place your life in peril.” You see, now, this is why I think you are full of it. You, on the one hand, constantly harp on this “threat to your existence” and that “your life is in peril”, suggesting that a mob of anglo-australian racists are about to lynch you any moment. Then, on the other hand, you write things especially crafted to infuriate the likes of Desmond Jones, suggesting ways to manipulate nordics to your advantage. No, my “druze”, if you are so well versed on racialism, and if you are so familiar with Desmond’s and Matra’s “take” on these issues, you must know in advance that what you write is going to provoke the very same “anti-Serbism, anti-southism” that you claim you are in such mortal terror from. I do believe you are afraid of something, but not what you claim. “Now you’re just blabbering. Firstly, I’ve never sniffed about any “unrequited love”; it’s obviously because I do feel I share mutual affection with Anglos that I’m concerned about forces that would imperil it.” No, you are just suffering from a lack of reading comprehension. You have complained that: a) you are fond of anglo-aussies, and b) you have tried to fit into their culture, but c) because of your “non-nordic features” you are unable to fit in and now the anglos are going to turn on you in a racialist rage, putting “your life in peril.” Sounds like unrequited love to me. “The rest of your “dissection” basically insinuates that I should come clean and “admit” I am Jew, right? Well, I can’t do that because I’m not! “ No, I had something else in mind; do not assume anything. It just did sound funny that here we have someone who is very familiar with amren and TOQ and MacDonald, has a personal animus with Taylor, doesn’t like blacks, supports eugenics, tries to divide Europeans esp. along the north/south axis, and talks about phenotypes with respect to this. It all sounds vaguely familiar to the “old hands” here, that’s all. I thought maybe your original self-description was closer to the truth, but more important is your apparent insincerity. “...but I’ll try to establish both my Serbian and Australian credentials. A few posts ago 2R addressed me as “drug”, which means comrade or friend. In addressing me, he should have used the vocative form, which is “druze” (pronounced “druzhe”). It’s a term of address not so much used since the fall of communism. “ Right. Which proves nothing other than you have a passing knowledge of how to pronounce “friend” in Serbian. But it really doesn’t matter in the end, it is your sincerity, not your ancestry, that is the major issue. Actually, you are probably doing a public service here, and I am wasting my time defending the indefensible. “I haven’t seen much of “rnl” lately; could this explain why?” He probably realized that this blog is part of the problem, not part of the solution. That being so, I second Steve Edwards and encourage an even greater participation by our “druze” “silver”, regardless of his actual ethnic background. 72
Posted by silver on October 13, 2007, 01:15 PM | # “You, on the one hand, constantly harp on this “threat to your existence” and that “your life is in peril”, suggesting that a mob of anglo-australian racists are about to lynch you any moment.” If that’s what you’ve understood then perhaps your own comprehension is lacking. I’ve never claimed that my life is right now, at this moment, as we speak, in peril, that I live in fear for it. I’m obviously referring to a future scenario.
I haven’t said that at all. I haven’t complained of not being able to fit in. (Surely there must have been cases where my race was an issue, even without anglo in question being an MR reader, but isolated incidents do not overturn the general circumstances.) I have said that in atmosphere of naked nordicism, I would risk losing the anglo friends I have, that I would risk having them turn on me, and even did they not, my life under such conditions would be severly compromised, likely threatened . None of these are groundless fears.
That’s because I consider the great majority of nordic racialists to have *already decided* on nordicism. What the hell is left for me to “discuss” with them? The method of my execution? I’m certainly not about to plead with them to accept me; either a racially aware nord does or he doesn’t. From everything I have read of them, it is clear that they do not. Then to hell with them. It’s incredible that you miss this. In fact, for the precise reason that you do “miss” it, it is *I* who should be accusing *you* of dissimulation—come on, out with it, what ought I, or any southern euro, to do? My purpose here is twofold. Firstly, it’s to *warn* non-nords of what they are getting into. If they are aware of the risks but choose to be “useful idiots”, anyway, that’s up to them. Secondly, it’s to suggest alternate means of securing “majority rights”. True, I never quite get around to the second point, and that’s because I’m typically cut off at the pass by…people like yourself, and virtually every other commenter on this thread. So, if you like, yes, I am providing a “public service” here; I help “both” parties to better understand each other. (And anyway, isn’t keeping your enemies “closer” considered sage advice?) 73
Posted by platinum on October 13, 2007, 01:46 PM | # “Firstly, it’s to *warn* non-nords of what they are getting into. If they are aware of the risks but choose to be “useful idiots”, anyway, that’s up to them.” Of course, there is no third alternative…. “silver” and “majority rights” - made for each other. A turd in a sewer. 74
Posted by Tommy G on October 13, 2007, 03:11 PM | # LMAO!!! I love it! We definitely could use more James Oddos and less Trent Lotts in our government. 75
Posted by Lurker on October 13, 2007, 03:14 PM | # Plantinum - could we have some outline of the 3rd way then. 76
Posted by Scimitar on October 13, 2007, 07:48 PM | # platinum, Check this out. http://blog.occidentaldissent.com/2007/10/13/discourse-poisoning-a-case-study/ 77
Posted by Scimitar on October 13, 2007, 08:24 PM | #
‘silver’ should be excluded for being 1.) a disruptor, 2.) a shit stirrer, 3.) a polarizer, 4.) a time-waster, 5.) a diverter, and 6.) a hostile. http://forum.occidentaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=2150
I haven’t defined the ‘polarizer’ yet. I will get to work on that one. 78
Posted by Scimitar on October 13, 2007, 08:27 PM | # He’s also a ‘tribalist’.
79
Posted by Al Ross on October 13, 2007, 09:36 PM | # Thank you, Scimitar. I also believe that ‘silver’ is of no value as a commentator. 80
Posted by silver on October 13, 2007, 10:36 PM | # For all that, ‘Scimitar’, pertinent questions remain. Now, you’ve told me where you stand: you don’t consider Serbs white “at all”. At all. That’s quite final and uncompromising, and more than that, it’s extremely important information for at least a Serb to be aware of. If he isn’t, he is effectively a sucker participating in his own demise. The destruction of one’s livelihood may be a trivial matter to you and the Sroobies, but that’s because you all you do with your lives is talk shop at every waking hour not spent earning a living. For everyone else, it strikes them as more than just a minor inconvenience. Could you at least tell me whether there’s anything to parley, or is my life as good as a negro’s? No more than a few words beyond ‘yes’ or ‘no’ is necessary. 81
Posted by Desmond Jones on October 13, 2007, 10:55 PM | # Then to hell with them. Finally the truth. Thank you. 82
Posted by Tommy G on October 13, 2007, 11:12 PM | # Silver, nobody here has proof you are white (I strongly suspect you’re a mulatto)...but rest assured, whether you like it or not, you need to accept the fact that Serbians are white. No further discussion on the issue is needed. 83
Posted by silver on October 13, 2007, 11:17 PM | # “13.) The Zealot - The zealot has a bee in his bonnet about something. He’s stirring up a tempest about something on your blog or messageboard. The zealot is like a thunderstorm, disturbing the atmosphere, inciting you to react to him. Sometimes you take the bait and respond to him, which annoys people, wastes your time, fatigues you. The zealot is not necessarily a shit stirrer, as he can be an established member of the community, but he is a potential shit stirrer or hostile. It’s a good idea to exclude zealots you don’t know and purge the ones you do.”
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Posted by Scimitar on October 13, 2007, 11:22 PM | #
That’s because they don’t consider themselves to be ‘white’. It’s not a part of their sense of collective identity. I’m objectively not an Orthodox Christian. I don’t speak their language either. That’s not a part of my culture. It doesn’t imply that I am hostile like you are, silver. The only reason you are here is to shit stir, disrupt threads, and waste our time with your stupid little crusade. I’m not going to even bother to read through your comments above, as a mere glance over them was enough for me to discern your agenda. IMO you should be sent back to the peanut gallery. If you want to learn something, you can always browse.
I’m not interested in destroying your livelihood. You’re wailing like a Jew here - imagining various paranoid conspiracies against you.
See above. 85
Posted by silver on October 13, 2007, 11:27 PM | # “Silver, nobody here has proof you are white (I strongly suspect you’re a mulatto)...but rest assured, whether you like it or not, you need to accept the fact that Serbians are white. No further discussion on the issue is needed.” It’s not so much a question of whether Serbs are “white” or not, rather how that whiteness is considered. Scimitar—Scimitar, leading ideologue—has already stated, point blank, that he doesn’t consider Serbs white “at all”. How in God’s name am I supposed to gloss over that? Desmond Jones likewise has my kind “out”. Is there something I should know about him? Is he considered to be on similar standing as Scimitar or is he an oddity that I can afford to ignore? These are pertinent questions. There’s no way around that. Refusal to answer is evidence of dissimulation. It doesn’t matter that you, Tommy, suspect me being a mulatto. Just imagine you were speaking with someone of whom you had clear proof was a Serb and he was putting these same questions to you. 86
Posted by silver on October 13, 2007, 11:47 PM | # “That’s because they don’t consider themselves to be ‘white’. It’s not a part of their sense of collective identity. I’m objectively not an Orthodox Christian. I don’t speak their language either. That’s not a part of my culture. “
“It doesn’t imply that I am hostile like you are, silver. The only reason you are here is to shit stir, disrupt threads, and waste our time with your stupid little crusade. I’m not going to even bother to read through your comments above, as a mere glance over them was enough for me to discern your agenda.” I think I’ve raised some important issues, Scimitar. How about this once you put aside your feelings about my alleged agenda and read carefully what I’ve said in this thread and respond to it. I can’t see you building much of a movement if you insist on evading and obfuscating every time delicate questions arise. “I’m not interested in destroying your livelihood. You’re wailing like a Jew here - imagining various paranoid conspiracies against you.” I can’t see how you could effect your policy proposals without destroying it (I mean, if I am to be excluded). I didn’t say your direct interest was in doing so. 87
Posted by Desmond Jones on October 13, 2007, 11:57 PM | #
Thank you. Does that require a response?
This writer’s position was main stream in the 1930s. However, today, it must be considered an oddity. A response, does that mean the healing process has begun? 88
Posted by silver on October 14, 2007, 12:39 AM | # “Thank you. Does that require a response?” Ah, it’s always nice to be vindicated. Anyone else want to chime in? 89
Posted by Desmond Jones on October 14, 2007, 01:08 AM | # “Ah, it’s always nice to be vindicated. Anyone else want to chime in?” If you’re going to employ rhetorical methodology, you should at least do it properly. A presenter in a meeting is faced with some one in the audience who shouts, “Your full of shit!” Your response is, “Do you wish to expand on that?” It’s an attempt to engage the “non-responder”. Then you go for the “What does everyone else think?” Simple yet elegant! 90
Posted by Scimitar on October 14, 2007, 01:09 AM | #
They’re not excluded a priori. I didn’t say you should be excluded because you are a Serb. Your objective here seems to be to divert threads and stir up ethnic animosity. That’s why you should be excluded.
No. That has nothing to do with the matter. I have Serb members on my own website. A good friend of mine is a Croat.
I have read enough from you to discern that your only purpose here is to disrupt threads by pushing the tribal button. For the record, you are not alone in this regard.
I’m talking about reducing you to a guest on a blog, silver. The reason for that is because you are whining like a Jew about Nordics here, trying to polarize the discussion, trying to stir up an ethnic pissing contest that aggravates people, which diverts productive conversations, and wastes time. Can’t you think of something better to do? Apparently not. Instead, you cry into your beer and ethnic groups you dislike. It’s pathetic. That’s why you should be terminated, got it? 91
Posted by Matra on October 14, 2007, 01:28 AM | # silver, If you are a Serb then I consider you to be white. I also consider you to be a potential ally in the defence of Western Christian civilisation against our coloured non-Christian enemies. When Yugoslavia broke up in 1991 I was initially pro-Croatian because I thought they were anti-communists. It was only after leftist MP Sheila Copps spoke to Croatian activists in the city of Hamilton and my Muslim co-workers endorsed the Croatian side that I had second thoughts. I then noticed that Croats only used anti-communism when it suited them but always put their own ethnic interests above all else. After spending time in my native Northern Ireland I changed sides and, like virtually all Ulster Protestants, concluded that the Serbs were the ‘goodies’. I later lived in the mostly Slavic High Park area of Toronto and became very pro-Slav until I noticed that there was no reciprocity from Slavs towards us Anglo-Saxons. Yes, they appreciated our anti-communism, but they continued to put their love of multiculturalism (ie. anti-Anglo-Saxonism) above everything else. I was given a schooling in ethnic relations: All ethnic groups put their own short term ethnic - not racial - interests above ideology and everything else. Robert Reis thinks that Canadians who oppose multiculturalism are guilty of anti-Slav prejudice. Unfortunately many a Slav in Canada thinks the same way. Serbs are not as bad as the other Slavic groups. I suspect that has something to do with the fact that many Serbs live in small towns (ie. more likely to integrate into the Anglo-Saxon Canadian mainstream) and the anti-Serb propaganda from the left wing mass media. Nevertheless all non-Anglo-Saxons in North America have learned to play the race/discrimination card. silver, if you genuinely fear an anti-white world (a big IF) then I’d like to see you contribute more to this website. I’d certainly prefer your insights to those of JW Holliday/platinum/ or whatever he calls himself this week. At least you are honest enough to post under the same name each time you come here. But you really need to cut the victimology crap. Most whites who are interested in our survival don’t consider Serbs or other Slavs to be enemies of the white race. This is not a Nordicist website. But it is in the English language, which means that an Anglo-Saxon view is likely to dominate. As a resident of Australia you must have noticed that Anglo-Saxons are not bigoted towards other whites. We accept non-Anglo-Saxons more than other whites accept us. Do you really think your Anglo neighbours could ever be convinced to lynch you? So why not help your fellow Europeans, a minority in the world as a whole, in our struggle to survive in the 21st century, instead of creating division? 92
Posted by Desmond Jones on October 14, 2007, 02:42 AM | # Matra, Division is natural. It’s a fundamental principle of evolution. Look what’s its taught you. “All ethnic groups put their own short term ethnic - not racial - interests above ideology and everything else.” The problem with Anglo-Canucks is that they still buy into this integrationist/assimilationist crap. Silveric’s message of hate is good because it can only serve to harden the Anglo preservation position. Mutliculturalism is effective because it allows balkanization and thus a means of preservation. It works for the Slav’s, the Italians, the French, the Jamaicans, Muslims etc. It’s highly unlikely you will see any mass tranferance of any population. With the exception of Quebec, who have preserved an ethnically defined territory, the best option is community based. Embrace the Peace Village concept in Vaughan. Encourage homogeneous communities. Encourage people to marry and associate with their own people. Encourage faith-based funding and destroy the public education system. Anything to segregate the population. 93
Posted by silver on October 14, 2007, 02:52 AM | # Matra, I appreciate your taking the time to reply at length. I’ll first address Scimitar, by way of which my responses to some of the points you raise might better understood. “I’m talking about reducing you to a guest on a blog, silver. The reason for that is because you are whining like a Jew about Nordics here, trying to polarize the discussion, trying to stir up an ethnic pissing contest that aggravates people, which diverts productive conversations, and wastes time. “
I’m not concerned about being excluded from this blog (or yours, or any other). When I bring up “destroying my livelihood”, I mean that in a possible future where nordicism/racialism dominates public discourse (the way liberalism does today) and a resolution is reached to separate races (or, more extremely, exterminate some or all others), and I’m included in those on whom separation is to be enforced, my livelihood at that point can for all intents and purposes be considered destroyed. Just because such possibilty only lies in some distant future doesn’t lessen the concern I feel. Why should it? Obviously the choices I make about how I live today will be influenced by my thoughts about what the future holds for me.
What’s really pathetic is this insistence that that is what I am doing. Where have I here once attempted to foment hatred against groups I dislike? Where have I even mentioned an ethnic group I dislike? Fearing nordicists is not quite the same as disliking them. Desmond Jones here gives me every reason to believe I’m not wanted and yet I am the one accused of disrupting proceedings. (And it’s not just Desmond Jones; sheesh, I have been around the block, Scimitar. I’m not just pulling this stuff from thin air.) Look, if it’s a non-aggression pact you seek, let’s hammer out the terms; I can hardly sign something invisible, after all. You needn’t provide a glib two-second answer to this; it isn’t a skeet shoot.
The reasons they do so are manifold, not least of which is that it is what modern society encourages (and not just explicitly). I would advise caution in inferring too much from this. “As a resident of Australia you must have noticed that Anglo-Saxons are not bigoted towards other whites.” I beg to differ! “We accept non-Anglo-Saxons more than other whites accept us.” Yes and no. You are a right in the sense of anglos accepting other ethnic groups more than other ethnic groups accept anlgos, but this is true only as it pertains to anglos and other ethnics as *ethnic groups*. With respect to racialism, I think the opposite is true. 94
Posted by silver on October 14, 2007, 03:00 AM | # “Silveric’s message of hate is good because it can only serve to harden the Anglo preservation position.” Message of hate? Incredible. According to you, my very presence in Australia is “sucking the lifeforce” out of Anglo-Saxons. In other words, I’m no better than a negro. That’s what this really means. And I assume it applies to Portuguese, Italians, to every non-anglo. Essentially, it’s a racial problem you have with me. However, when you’re pinned down on it, you resort to talking about ethnic—not racial—rivalries. Well that just won’t do, Jones. Come clean on what you mean. (Or get it sorted out in your own head before posting, if that’s where the problem lies.) 95
Posted by Steve Edwards on October 14, 2007, 03:10 AM | # Ok, Fred. Maybe your ‘dar picked up something mine didn’t. I really don’t get the intra-Euro rivalry - my ‘dar just isn’t tuned into that wavelength. So I probably missed a lot of that. I tend to focus on diverters who are anti-Euro as a whole, so intra-Euro conflict tends to go way over my head. 96
Posted by Desmond Jones on October 14, 2007, 03:49 AM | # “According to you, my very presence in Australia is “sucking the lifeforce” out of Anglo-Saxons. In other words, I’m no better than a negro. That’s what this really means. And I assume it applies to Portuguese, Italians, to every non-anglo.” Very good. You’re getting there. Think Darwin. “Essentially, it’s a racial problem you have with me.” Nope. “However, when you’re pinned down on it, you resort to talking about ethnic—not racial—rivalries.” I’ve never stopped talking about that. “Well that just won’t do, Jones. Come clean on what you mean.” There’s no difference. Think Darwin. Why do you have a problem with Anglo survival as a unique entity? I’ve no problem with Serb, Italian or whoever surviving as a unique entity, and they wouldn’t care if I did. Holliday:
97
Posted by 2R on October 14, 2007, 04:01 AM | # “According to you, my very presence in Australia is “sucking the lifeforce” out of Anglo-Saxons. In other words, I’m no better than a negro. That’s what this really means. And I assume it applies to Portuguese, Italians, to every non-anglo.”
So I will say it again. I’ve been around WN for about 2.5 years. I’ve seen all the websites and read a lot of the literature and in all that time, I’ve seen no anti-Southern attitudes that you’re “warning” Southern Euro’s about. The most stupid thing you say is that you’re trying to make Southern Euro’s “think twice about what their getting in to.” This type of theatrical statement sounds like something a bunch of people at your organization came up with during a brainstorming session. I know I’ve said this before, so I have to admit that you’ve been successful at keeping me concentrating on the time-wasting, genocide-causing, shit-stirring conversations that you bring here. But this time I mean it, I am no longer going to engage in the conversations with you. I just proved that there can be no question that our genocide is your goal. So knowing this, I can no longer waste my time with an obvious enemy. 98
Posted by JW Holliday on October 14, 2007, 04:57 AM | # “I’d certainly prefer your insights to those of JW Holliday/platinum/ or whatever he calls himself this week. At least you are honest enough to post under the same name each time you come here. “ Yeah, Matra, I really am not surprised that you prefer “silver.” Tell me this though: if my posts are so obiously identifiable by content and style - which GW had told me long ago - and which you, and others, can pick up so quickly, then how it is “dishonesty” to amuse myself by utilizing a pun on “silver” with"platinum”?” Whether it is “GNXP stinks” or “platinum” or “grunting brute”, you, and others, know who it is - real dishonesty, I take it. The only person getting confused here is Fred - but I did tell him that anything I may address to him I would let him know what’s what. By the way, I am amused that the “use a different name on a different thread” is an issue when I do so, but when others do so - and make no mistake they do - that is overlooked. Don’t tell me you are so discerning about my style, but oblovious to that of others? Or, is it ideological? Don’t worry too much though. After I’m satisfied that the David B thread is going nowhere, I’ll bow out, and leave you guys to debate the “serb” “silver”, you know, the guy who: a lot of “honesty” there. One wonders if “silvers” original ethnic self-identification was closer to the mark. By the way, Desmond Jones seems to have the habit of attributing quotes by Frank Salter to me. As much as I admire Salter’s work, I am “honest” enough not to take credit for Salter’s work. Desmond, please attribute Salter to Salter. 99
Posted by JW Holliday on October 14, 2007, 05:13 AM | # Scimitar, thank you for the link. You are right on the money. Of course, others here can’t get enough of the “serb” “silver”... “and I’m included in those on whom separation is to be enforced, my livelihood at that point can for all intents and purposes be considered destroyed.” Hmmm, are you talking about Australia here, or the USA? And do you really refer to serbs or some other group? I’m not talking about Jews, by the way. What is, by the way, your non-racialist alternative for western civilizational preservation: cognitive elitism? “Silveric’s message of hate is good because it can only serve to harden the Anglo preservation position.” Which is of course why he is posting here. And, why others want him to continue. “I’m not going to even bother to read through your comments above, as a mere glance over them was enough for me to discern your agenda.” Put together Scimitar’s immediate recognition of said agenda with Desmond Jones’ comment on the end result of “silver’s” posts. “Thank you, Scimitar. I also believe that ‘silver’ is of no value as a commentator.” But, Al, he does indeed have “value” if one values division. See also, 2R: “So there is NO QUESTION that you are only here to cause trouble between Southern and Northern Euro’s.” “So why not help your fellow Europeans, a minority in the world as a whole, in our struggle to survive in the 21st century, instead of creating division?” The pot calls the kettle black. 100
Posted by JW Holliday on October 14, 2007, 05:38 AM | # A general question to the readership: are the “insights” of silver considered to be of a higher quality to those from my contributions to this blog. I’m curious to get the opinion of more than one individual. Another question: since the “creative genuises” here are so well informed about the EGI concept (*) - which they use to explain everything from the price of milk to bad weather - how about, the next time David B or someone else attacks Salter’s work, we get the “insights” of the “geniuses” here to refute it? That’ll certainly save me time, and will certainly be entertaining. Although, I suspect, that Salter would probably be more dismayed by the “refutation”, than with David B’s original attack. Not to worry though, as we have been told here, it doesn’t matter if anyone really understands the concept at all, just that it has utility has a rhetorical device to promote preservation. Very good, but that, of course, leaves you open to attack by the likes of David B who, while he really doesn’t fully understand the concept himself, does have a better grasp of it (at least in a superficial sense) than most here. Thus, if you are going to use EGI as a “tool” and invoke EGI in every other sentence, then you had better be prepared to defend it from committed adversaries, like David B, who understand just enough to make objections that sound plausible to the average reader. The only way to defend the concept that you wish so fervently to use (and do) from such attacks, and to effectively demonstrate that the attacks are bogus, is to have a solid, real understanding of what EGI really is. Read Salter’s book and work through the arguments and premises. Consider the implications of EGI with respect to genetic structure. Actually THINK about it rather than considering it the equivalent of a racialist hammer to pick up every time you want to nail down a point. Feel free of course to completely ignore this advice. Better to listen to “silver” assert that - at some point in the future of course, not now - the anglos are going to be after him. Think of Donald Sutherland at the end of the remake of “the body snatchers”, an anglo-racialist pointing at “silver” with open mouth. A serb! A serb! Destroy! Destroy! (**) *Yes, indeed, EGI “doesn’t apply” to inter-ethnic relations because “we are all Europeans”, completely ignoring that “ethny” can describe any population subdivision, and that Salter explicitly gave a chart of intra-European child equivalents. **That’s not to say that “silver” hasn’t brought up some food for thought (pun intended). The major point is - and this is what Scimitar, etc. need to consider - there is a reason why “silver” has been so effective in planting his destructive seeds here. The ground has always been very fertile, which he himself suggests. 101
Posted by Scimitar on October 14, 2007, 05:50 AM | #
I have argued with Desmond Jones a million times now because he does the exact same thing you do. He obviously likes what you are doing here. He says so above. It advances his little fancy of turning every discussion into Anglo-Canadians vs. Americans vs. Slavs vs. French Canadians vs. Germans vs. Europe. It polarizes the comments, inflames the comments with ethnic animosity, drives off commentators like Rnl and wintermute, diverts the comments from the actual topic of the discussion. There have been several pissing contests of this sort in recent weeks. It’s clearly becoming a problem. I have been busy with other matters lately, so I haven’t been following what goes on here, but it seems much worse than it was a few weeks ago. Instead of arguing with you further, I am going to turn my attention to explicating the problem and fleshing out a solution to it once and for all, so I don’t have to waste my time with people like you any further. I’m up to about 65+ different types of disruptor and defective that I have encountered over the years. The mere act of browsing this discussion has allowed me to identify three more types which didn’t occur to me: the polarizer, the sock puppet, and the crypto-nonwhite. 102
Posted by JWH on October 14, 2007, 06:20 AM | # “...the crypto-nonwhite. “ Now, we are getting a bit closer to “honesty” here. 103
Posted by Scimitar on October 14, 2007, 06:25 AM | #
No, your contributions are more valuable than his. If I recall correctly, you were gone here by the time I showed up. Amongst other things, ‘silver’ is an obvious shit stirrer. I have seen people like ‘silver’ drive off lots of good people over the years, destroy entire messageboards, ruin all sorts of blogs. It has happened so many times now that I have started to theorize about it.
I won’t speak for GW. I’m not sure why he keeps people like ‘silver’ around, but I will speak from my own experience. For many years, I was hung up on the notion of ‘free speech’, and I patronized all sorts of miscreants and allowed them to harangue friends of mine until they would quit my website in disgust. This infatuation with ‘free speech’ is not uncommon in racialist circles. As you probably know, Alex Linder has the same problem, and that has created what we can all see at VNN Forum. Back in 2000, Stormfront was one of the few pro-white sites on the internet. Lots of us back then bought into the ideal of ‘free speech’ because we found ourselves excluded from mainstream messageboards and blogs. A lack of ‘free speech’ is no longer the problem in 2007. Anyone can set up their own blog now and have all the ‘free speech’ they want. There has been a lag though on many pro-white websites in catching up with new technology and changing posting policies. Why has the ground always been so fertile? Because a ‘free speech’ blog or messageboard is like a human being without an immune system. Any number of viruses, bacteria, and parasites will infect the host (we have adopted the term ‘prions’ to describe them), attack the healthy elements, multiply until the point where they grow out of control, and discourse poison the blog/messageboard into the ground. The final stage is when the cancer starts to rapidly metastasize and the bad chases out the good. I suspect that it also has a lot to do with virtues being taken to excess. I used to like being fair, reasonable, courteous, even-handed. I was too polite for my own good and disliked having to impose myself and mediate an obvious problem. The only solution that I am aware of to this problem is 1.) a strong editorial stance + 2.) a eugenic posting policy. 104
Posted by JWH on October 14, 2007, 06:41 AM | # Excellent points by Scimitar. Is anyone paying attention? By the way, Matra, about the “different names on posts”, it was I who suggested to GW long ago that he install a password system for this blog, with every person being assigned their own password for their SINGLE chosen screen name, so that the comings and goings here could be controlled and identification problems would not occur. Persons abusing the policy by giving their passwords to other users would be permanently banned. He chose not to do so, and I observed others use different screen names for different threads. Since I no longer took the blog seriously at that point, why not use “grunting brute” and “festering pustule?” It seemed to fit in with the comic routines here, with the difference being the names were intentionally comical, while the posts and comments were definitely unintentionally so. ” Amongst other things, ‘silver’ is an obvious shit stirrer. I have seen people like ‘silver’ drive off lots of good people over the years, destroy entire messageboards, ruin all sorts of blogs.” Scimitar, among others, gets it. “The only solution that I am aware of to this problem is 1.) a strong editorial stance + 2.) a eugenic posting policy.” Indeed. As far as 1) goes, you can’t sit on two separate stools at the same time, without falling in between, and as for 2) yes, a blog likes this needs some sort of comments moderation. ‘Because a ‘free speech’ blog or messageboard is like a human being without an immune system. “ Yes. “This infatuation with ‘free speech’ is not uncommon in racialist circles.” Yes, a support for free speech does not conflate with an obligation to host everything on your own personal property. A person should have the perfect right, for example, to state racial slurs about negroes, but a negro should be under no obligation to have to host in his own home a person stating such slurs. 105
Posted by Guessedworker on October 14, 2007, 09:47 AM | # There is a corollary to free speech. It is pluralism. People are never of a single mind, and healthy, normal politics do not coalesce around a single interpretation of how to progress. They diverge. Divergency appears to be counter-productive, even destructive. But it is normal, and it is how bad ideas are winnowed away. What are we trying to do here? 1) We are trying to uncover and investigate the fundamental principles of European survival. 2) We are trying to extrapolate those principles, as we discover them, into public values, and thence forward into public policy. This is necessarily a dialectical process - not, thanks very much, a dictation process. Accordingly, there is dispute. There is heat. There is vanity and pride, fixed ideas, painful defeats and some victories. But out of it must come something true and useful, and acceptable to more of us because it has been seen to withstand the process. I will give you two personal examples of what I mean. Phil Peterson and I decided in the months before MR was launched in 2004 that we would treat the JQ with special caution ... not because we were Taylor-style Judeophiles, but because we considered it a practical way to comport ourselves before a non-WN readership. We were wrong. Wintermute and ben tillman proved the verity of their case in some fairly tough debate with me, and we changed the way we handle the JQ. I’m glad we did. JW arrived here having been rebuffed by the cognitive elitists at GNXP, and having just seen David B post a travesty of a response to OGI. I didn’t know anything of genetic interests, but had the greatest respect for JW and fully trusted that the battle he sought to fight was in all our interests. For me, the result was something of an epiphany, explaining the stubborn, bred-in-the-bone, indeed rather too inchoate instincts I had for conserving the life we hold, and moving them onto a platform with many new and interesting vistas. If I am grateful to Wintermute and ben for releasing me from policing the damned JQ 24/7, I am doubly grateful to JW for the service he has done me and, I hope, many, many others. Of course not every offering provided here is like those, and the door, in being open as it is, also admits harmful influences. I understand the frustration that these cause. But I hold to the belief that, at this still nascent stage in the work of constructing and communicating survivalist thought, it is better to be open, and to admit to oneself a crucial, humanising element of doubt. 106
Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 14, 2007, 10:30 AM | # Scimitar makes a point which GW’s comment doesn’t address: there’s a kind of poster whose involvement detracts from the process of honest dialogue. This poster doesn’t help build, he helps destroy. Silver is one such (and I’m sorry to see Matra, a comrade for whom I have the utmost respect, take Silver’s bait). I actually just typed out a long three-paragraph post telling what I thought of Silver (let’s just say it took the term ad hominem to heights — or lows — hitherto undreamt of and leave it at that, shall we?) but I erased it because looking at it after I was done, I realized I was only playing his game. Silver is easy to reply to, and that goes for every one of his points, but he’s not straightforward, and as Platinum said, for that reason does not deserve a reply. As for this north-south thing Silver is trying to introduce here: it means nothing. That’s all I’ll say about it. By ancestry I’m a mongrel whom Desmond would view as a wog. Does that bother me in the slightest or keep me in any way from opposing the forced race-replacement régime? No. I view Desmond as a comrade and I couldn’t care less how he views me: there’s work to be done. After we win this war I’ll be excluded from Desmond’s cocktail parties. Fine. But let’s get on with the job at hand and worry about that later. Daniel’s hypersensitivity to (his perceptions of) others’ attitudes toward Sicilian blood was uncalled for and he needs to eliminate that from himself, never again fall prey to it. It’s wrong and stupid. Only dumb Sicilians do it. 107
Posted by Tommy G on October 14, 2007, 03:20 PM | # “Amongst other things, ‘silver’ is an obvious shit stirrer. I have seen people like ‘silver’ drive off lots of good people over the years, destroy entire messageboards, ruin all sorts of blogs.” Yes, silver IS an obvious shit-stirrer—glaringly obvious. What is not so obvious is why supposedly intelligent people—time after time—fall into his trap? When silver first started posting at this sight, he advertised in neon signage what his intentions were/are. He wants to weaken the white-preservationist movement by creating derision between northern and southern European ethnic groups. The following ‘verbal gems’ are some of silver’s introductory remarks (they’re from the - Are Jews White, thread): 1)“Face it white boy, your end is nigh.” 2)“Should racialism ever threaten to become more widespread than the fringe movement it currently is—one beset with contradiction and internal bickering—there are a great many counter-arguments that could be employed against it (quite devastatingly, imo).” 3)“If I were to impregnate a white girl (which I will, be sure of it…more if I can, now that I have added incentive)” 4)“Yes, let’s cut to the chase here. I’m a Paki British citizen. Comments?” [no, wait!] 5)“Pardon the immodesty, but I’m a rather attractive male specimen, so the one I ultimately select will be a hot little number—the kind I’m sure will make WNs puke at seeing such a beauty with “that wog”.” ————————————————————————————- I could be wrong, but it’s been my opinion along that silver should have been taken with a grain of salt. Ignoring his obvious attempts to divide us into opposing factions is the best way of censoring people like him. IMHO, it’s really not the silvers’ of the world that destroy blogs, it’s the overreaction to him that causes harm. As long as he’s treated seriously, he’ll continue to obtain perverse enjoyment by way of engaging in his divisive game playing…. 108
Posted by JWH on October 14, 2007, 04:35 PM | # “But it is normal, and it is how bad ideas are winnowed away. “ With all due respect, GW, and I’m not trying to be combative here, but what often happens on “free speech” blogs is that those individuals with the most free time, or the most obnoxious behavior, or the most pig-headed stubborness - or a combination of all such traits - ends up dominating threads. So, it are not always the “bad ideas” that are “winnowed away”, because superimposed upon the “battle of ideas” is a battle of personalities; the vagaries of human nature. So, it may well be that it are the good ideas and the good people who are “winnowed away” by the process, leaving behind those commentators who have nothing better to do than destructively troll about. Actually, a moderated debate would be a better format for “winnowing” ideas rather than the “anything goes” flamewars that occur here, and elsehwere. Other than JJR (who was an example of a stubborn, pig-headed, exasperating troll - and as a blogger, no less), it would seem all the other people who quit the blog out of disgust, including bloggers like Geoff Beck and commentators like Rnl were a loss to the debating process. As Fred suggests there are differences between commentators. Let us look at the comments that Tommy G retrieved from the Jews/white thread. There “silver” was behaving quite different, an “in your face anti-racist”, with an original south asian pedigree. Later he transformed into a Serb who claims to support western civilization, but who is just afraid that the “nords are going to get him.” Comparing this quick transformation, and the transparent insincerity, coupled to how easily some of your commentators are getting riled up by “silveric’s” “hatred”, and viewning his comments as an indictment toward Serbs in Australia, one wonders. Has “silver” winnowed out “bad ideas” here, or is he helping to spread them? Getting back to the original point, how do you discern between the popularity of an idea among your readers and/or the amount of free time among your trolls vs. the actual merit of particular ideas? You cannot; your format is designed as to let human variables trump ideological competition. Because an idea “wins” at MR is in no way an indication of its merit. 109
Posted by Scimitar on October 14, 2007, 05:11 PM | #
That’s exactly right. I ran a ‘free speech’ messageboard over a period of four or five years and saw it happen a million times. Back in 2003, a destructive troll called ‘Raina’ showed up on my messageboard, along with numerous other Original Dissent refugees. This parasite (who we didn’t know was a crypto-pedophile at the time) singlehandedly destroyed that forum. wintermute showed up around this time and warned me about him. I wasn’t familar with Raina or its history and was living to give him a chance. At the time, I was still under the spell of ‘free speech’. A year later, ‘Raina’ was deluging my messageboard with interracial pornography, and would later cause all sorts of problems for me. ‘Raina’ managed to chase off one of the best racialist posters on the internet (AntiYuppie) by sending scatology emails to his professional email address. Even then I stuck to ‘free speech’ right down until January 2007. In hindsight, I now realize that this was a mistake, should have taken wintermute’s advice, and saved myself a lot of unnecessary headaches. All sorts of friends of mine and good people dropped out over the years because of destructive shit stirrers and parasites like this ‘Raina’ character. In the end, these were the people left standing. Moral of the story: if you don’t edit your membership, your membership will do the editing for you by dropping out, and you will be all the worse off for it in the end. I’m not even speaking of Majority Rights. I have several other websites in mind. It would be a shame to see that happen here. I’m not familar with the entire history of this blog, but from you are telling me, this process seems to be at work here as well. 110
Posted by JWH on October 14, 2007, 05:34 PM | # “1)“Face it white boy, your end is nigh.” Yes, sir, “silver” is really interested in staving off western “civilizational decline” and he does, by golly, have the most interesting “insights” and “contributions” to make to the “winnowing” of ideas. “2)“Should racialism ever threaten to become more widespread than the fringe movement it currently is—one beset with contradiction and internal bickering—there are a great many counter-arguments that could be employed against it (quite devastatingly, imo).” Case in point, “silver” stirring up intra-European division. I am guessing that’s the “devastating counter-argument.” Of course, the only reason it works is that there actually are racialists who encourage that division as well. “3)“If I were to impregnate a white girl (which I will, be sure of it…more if I can, now that I have added incentive)” Here “silver” is suggesting that he himself does not see himself as white - later he complains that nords don’t see Serbians as white. Which is it? “4)“Yes, let’s cut to the chase here. I’m a Paki British citizen. Comments?”” How about a south asian living in America as an alternate possibility? [no, wait!] Irrelevant, ultimately. Isn’t it clear from the very beginning that “silver” is hostile to racialism? “5)“Pardon the immodesty, but I’m a rather attractive male specimen, so the one I ultimately select will be a hot little number—the kind I’m sure will make WNs puke at seeing such a beauty with “that wog”.” This obsession with “getting the white girls” does sound a bit familiar…. 111
Posted by Al Ross on October 14, 2007, 05:45 PM | # Raina seems a well-chosen name for an anti-White wrecker, Scimitar. It is the name of a Hindu sub-caste. 112
Posted by Scimitar on October 14, 2007, 05:55 PM | #
GW, I’m not speaking here of people like wintermute, JW Holliday, Matra, Steve Edwards, ben tillman, etc. There’s clearly a diversity of views within that group. Steve is a libertarian. You’re a conservative. I’m a communitarian. I disagree with wintermute on all sorts of things. Let’s throw in Alex Linder for the sake of argument. That should make for plenty of interesting debates. We can all learn from each other. All of the above, ideological differences aside, share in common though a number of basic principles. There seems to be a minimum that we can all agree to. I know that all of the above are serious, thoughtful people who are on our side; within the Party, so to speak. There are various other individuals who operate in cyberspace (I have diagnosed them as the ‘disruptor’ and ‘defective’), who are not on our side (or add no value to it), but who are malicious and seek to destroy productive exchanges between pro-whites wherever they congregate. I’m not speaking here of Majority Rights, but several other websites where I have observed how this process works out over the years, and the final result of it all. They will take advantage of a laissez-faire posting policy to insert themselves into your circle. These people will work to shit stir, polarize, waste time, lower the tone, divert attention, and discourse poison your blog or forum in countless other ways. They will drive away your friends, people you need, and any number of bright aracials who interested in learning more about EGI and the existence of racial differences. Again, I am not referring to Majority Rights, as this is a common problem across the net that I have noticed. It’s exactly like suffering from an infection which can metastasize over the years into a fatal cancer. A few days ago, you correctly identified ‘_jimbo_’ as a disruptor of this type, and sent him on his way. JW, 2Rings, Fred and others are right that ‘silver’ here is another example. You can exclude the _jimbo_s and Rainas of the world and include the Rnls, JW Hollidays, wintermutes, Geoff Becks, or have it the other way around. I have seen it happen a million times now, as surely as night follows day. It’s the easiest decision you will ever have to make. I think everyone here would like to learn from each other. That’s difficult to accomplish so long as ‘silver’ and ‘_jimbo_’ are hanging out in the back of the classroom shooting spitballs, haranguing other ethnicities, and disrupting productive conversations. I’m not sure why JW left, but I would like to see him back here. Perhaps he can be persuaded to return under some conditions. Just give him a gun and leave him in the room with ‘silver’! I will stick around regardless as my tolerance level is much higher than some people. Hopefully, this shit stirrer has left an impression on people, so it will be easier to identify others of his type in the future. All the best, -S 113
Posted by Guessedworker on October 14, 2007, 07:22 PM | # You can add Slavyanski to the list of dearly departed, Scim. You shouldn’t run away with the idea that I don’t ban. JW is an empiricist and, politically, more practical and worldly, more activism-oriented than I. We see the world through different lenses, have different priorities, different areas of intolerance, and so forth. He has, perhaps, found his Truth, while I am still searching - and that is the core of the argument here. There is something prescriptive about going narrow, particularly since I personally do not possess the answers. Look, on Page 149 of On Genetic Interests Frank Salter writes:-
You see, none of us, not JW, not even Salter, can answer the north-south question. I don’t care who Silver is or isn’t. Perhaps I will ban him in a fit of autocratic despotism. It doesn’t matter because, actually, he doesn’t matter. Anyone who ascribes significance to him is a poor judge. What matters is that we have had to think:- All ethnic groups put their own short-term ethnic - not racial - interests above ideology and everything else. (Matra) Division is natural. It’s a fundamental principle of evolution. (Desmond Jones) These are truths which inconvenience those, like JW, interested in building a North American consensus for Euro-survivalism. If racial particularism is, in normal circumstances, trumped by ethnic particularism, are we looking at the extraordinary ... perhaps an Anglo secession or even a civil war ... as the only circumstance under which all Euro-Americans might unite for their own survival? If MR narrows to a private club, will the same inconveniences intrude upon us? While they do, I will not lightly change things here. 114
Posted by Reiv on October 14, 2007, 08:21 PM | # “These are truths which inconvenience those, like JW, interested in building a North American consensus for Euro-survivalism. If racial particularism is, in normal circumstances, trumped by ethnic particularism, are we looking at the extraordinary ... perhaps an Anglo secession or even a civil war ... as the only circumstance under which all Euro-Americans might unite for their own survival? If MR narrows to a private club, will the same inconveniences intrude upon us? While they do, I will not lightly change things here.
115
Posted by fkaa on October 14, 2007, 08:55 PM | # We don?t get to decide who is one of us. Our enemies have decided that for us. Am I the only one who finds this comment disturbing? I’ve seen this meme repeated often by WNs/racialists. But “let our enemies decide who is white” not only fails, in practical terms, to provide a meaningful and consistent group definition (the “enemy” is not monolithic; as others have pointed out, nonwhites often view jews as white; jews hate everyone; mestizos may view themselves as white; I’ve met Arabs who think of themselves as being just like Italians; East Asians typically don’t benefit from academic Affirmative Action; urban negroes and mestizos fight over territory; etc.), from a philosophical standpoint it gets things exactly backward. Whatever our enemies may do, each of us can (and, in today’s environment, should) define his own ingroup. Ceding that power to the enemy offers no benefit and makes no sense. If Mbuti Pygmies were on the enemy’s list along with Whitey (hell, maybe they are; I think the Bantu are eating them), would you then suggest we divert resources to saving the Mbuti and making extra certain we don’t type anything that might be perceived as offensive to the Mbuti? If you mean all Europeans face similar threats, okay (though even this point is debatable). That’s a description of reality, not a prescription for behavior. It’s still up to us to decide what sort of cooperation is mutually beneficial and whether or not that cooperation is possible. Ass-backward platitudes get us nowhere. 116
Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 14, 2007, 08:57 PM | # Silver’s eruption here was, by his second or third or fourth comment, so obviously in bad faith that he should have been ignored by everyone. If he had soberly put his questions or objections into three or four sentences (all the space it would’ve taken, in retrospect) he’d have gotten respectful replies. But that wasn’t his style, you see. He was going to drag us down into his slime-pit of deviousness, lying, and psychopathology. Once he’d shown what he was, no one should have paid him any attention. 117
Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 14, 2007, 09:37 PM | #
Is there a north-south question? I don’t see one. If there’s a north-south question there’s also an east-west question, a northeast-by-southwest question, a north-north-east-by-south-south-west question, a west-by-southwest by east-by-northeast question, and so on. There are all kinds of questions where the main aim is for each group to have an opportunity to invoke its right not to undergo race-replacement forced on it by government. What’s complicated? Yes there’s north-south but there’s everything else along with it. We don’t think government ought to be race-replacing us. We like the way we are and wish to stay that way. That’s the issue. If the Jews began pushing to get the Danes race-replaced by the Bavarians, that would be a north-south question too. And that should be stopped. Just as it should if the Jews began pushing to get the Bavarians race-replaced by the Czechs to their east, making it an east-west question. What it is is a race-replacement question, no matter along what directions of the compass. The Jews should no more push to get Sicilians replaced by Greeks (east-west) than they should push to get Greeks replaced by Albanians or Corsicans by Sardinians (north-south). All of it is wrong, along all directions of the compass. 118
Posted by fkaa on October 14, 2007, 10:44 PM | # He probably realized that this blog is part of the problem, not part of the solution. What is JW’s “solution”? A general question to the readership: are the ?insights? of silver considered to be of a higher quality to those from my contributions to this blog. No. I don’t always agree with you, and I could do without the whining, but you’ve obviously contributed more worthwhile content to MR than troll “silver”. Case in point, ?silver? stirring up intra-European division. I am guessing that?s the ?devastating counter-argument.? Of course, the only reason it works is that there actually are racialists who encourage that division as well. And? In an earlier comment, you mocked those who think EGI “doesn’t apply” within Europe. Are you saying you now agree with them? Pretending differences don’t exist doesn’t make them go away. 119
Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 14, 2007, 11:08 PM | # If there are intra-European divisions and EGI applies within Europe is there a problem? I fail to see how. Will a random Czech and a random Slovak become terribly offended if someone says the populations of the Czech Republic and Slovakia shouldn’t be forcibly exchanged with one another? I mean, what is the big deal with that, for crying out loud? My question is why do all these people go around saying population exchange and erasure of traditional populations has to be forced? What’s up with that? I know why Jews say it — they’re fighting a tribal war against Euros and want their extermination. But why do people like David B and Birch Barlow say it? How come they can’t leave traditional populations alone demographically? What’s with this demographic-engineering itch they have? 120
Posted by fkaa on October 14, 2007, 11:48 PM | # If there are intra-European divisions and EGI applies within Europe is there a problem? . . . I mean, what is the big deal with that, for crying out loud? It shouldn’t be a problem. It seems most of us can agree we don’t want Europe blended into a single massive, homogeneous state and, in theory at least, large-scale interbreeding between disparate European groups is undesirable. But some people think crossing an ocean changes things, and in North America we must pretend no intra-European differences exist. So, there’s tension between those like Desmond and Matra who notice intra-European ethnic conflict, and those like Rnl who believe mentioning such conflict is unnecessarily “divisive” (the cardinal sin in their view). My view: the issue will definitely not be solved by shouting down the “dividers”. Intra-European differences must be taken seriously. I see no reason disparate European types can’t work together where their interests coincide, but I think inter-ethnic cooperation needs a sturdier foundation than convincing majority whites in North America or Australia to pretend they have no interests separate from the minority whites amongst them. 121
Posted by Scimitar on October 15, 2007, 12:47 AM | #
I would make a distinction here. There are obvious disruptors and shit stirrers (i.e., ‘silver’) who reach for the tribal button and press it over and over again for no other reason that to polarize, inflame, and divert discussions. They operate by creating ethnic tension amongst people who would otherwise prefer to cooperate to achieve common goals. This ‘silver’ guy is probably not even a Serb.
That’s also my view. I don’t want to reshuffle Europe like a deck of cards. I don’t have any problem with, say, France preserving its racial and cultural heritage. That’s fine. There are also legitimate disputes between various European ethnic groups over all sorts of issues. I think it is possible to discuss these issues in a reasonable way without stirring up ethnic animosity - without every discussion becoming Yugoslavia. As you say, there are many issues where our interests coincide: the Jew problem, discourse poisoning in the mass media and academia, the hegemony of anti-racism, the degenerating effect of liberal capitalist democracy upon our culture and racial stock, the loss of our rights and liberties, race replacement via third world immigration (the cast of Gene Expression), etc. The shit stirring disruptor has a very good reason to exacerbate ethnic tension as his method of choice: look at what happened after the Second World War. 122
Posted by Guessedworker on October 15, 2007, 02:18 AM | # Fred asks: is there a north-south question? North-south is, of course, only a name for all stifling ethnic divisions between Europeans in North America, and applies to various of the European migrations - for example, Catholic Irishmen and Italians to America, and Irishmen and Ukrainians to Canada. The desire is, it would seem, to overturn the Anglo-hegemon - to have “fairness” for Ukrainians and to “cut the English down to size” for the Irish - and it overrides every other consideration for a substantial portion of them. Obviously, these Ukrainians and Irish could act more adaptively themselves, in the Salterian sense - the threat to them from their Third World “allies” is the same as it is to all whites, and will get them in the end. But they don’t. Salter uses the word “geography” to describe this situation, no doubt because he is thinking in continental European terms. We have used the phrase north-south here in the North American (and Australian) context. It is no more than tribal resource competition given a twist by the nostrums of class-warfare ... in truth, the discovery that access to the social and economic resources built by Anglos is structurally more difficult for members of the aforementioned ethnies than they think it should be. It’s impact on white racialism is profound and surely contributes in part to the fact that America is the only “European” homeland without a genuine and functioning nationalist party. 123
Posted by Guessedworker on October 15, 2007, 02:36 AM | # All Silver has brought in terms of “insights”, incidentally, is to model a division that exists in reality. I cannot understand why commenters take more from his efforts here than that. It is not necessary. For my part, I engaged with him when his South Asian-ness evaporated in case this event signaled a nascent understanding of the Great Question. When it became perfectly clear that this was not the case I ceased my responses to him. 124
Posted by JWH on October 15, 2007, 03:56 AM | # Hmmm…I do wonder where the outrage is now with people posting under different names on threads? 125
Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 15, 2007, 07:35 AM | #
fkaa, what name have you used here before, if any? 126
Posted by Matra on October 18, 2007, 03:31 AM | # OK, I’ve been gone a few days and I just skimmed through the entire thread. It is 3am but i think i can muster a very brief response. First of all I enjoy JW Holliday’s insights. Although I think it is obvious to most regular posters when he is using a different name - especially when he is deriding this site - there have been numerous occasions when others have not picked that up and have continued on. Perhaps I’m just a typical Anglo-Saxon Puritan because I find such habits dishonest and annoying. Maybe other European ethnic groups with foreign, uh, I mean, different values feel differently? I’m glad to see ‘JWH’ in posts above and hope he continues to post at this site or failing that starts up his own website. I admit to not having read some of silver’s posts but when he points out that the USA worldview, including that of WNists, is different from that of us pro-white whites who’ve never lived in the USA, he’s making an important point. I have no problem with that because I once believed that the WNist - that is, white multiculturalist - view would win out among whites but have been disappointed as often as a white American liberal wishing for black success. I think this question of intra-white competition (and even hatred) within states has to be dealt with. The great genetic distance between Italians and blacks/Asians, etc, hasn’t prevented the former from siding with the latter against the genetically closer Anglo-Saxons and French. If this were happening in an Italy with few Asians and blacks during a mass Anglo-Saxon invasion I would understand. But when they actively support policies that will result in the decline (elimination?) of their ethnic European hosts in Canada/Australia then where does that leave us? 127
Posted by JWH on October 18, 2007, 05:17 AM | # “Perhaps I’m just a typical Anglo-Saxon Puritan because I find such habits dishonest and annoying. Maybe other European ethnic groups with foreign, uh, I mean, different values feel differently?” Address my comment of Oct. 15th, 7:56 AM. Or is the “dishonesty” a problem only when performed by “other European ethnic groups with foreign, uh, I mean, different values?” Once again, do you really believe that I am the only regular commentator here who has switched thread names on this blog? Or, does my ideology mean that it is only a problem when I do it? I really have no interest in commenting here further but these highly selective attacks on my “honesty” need to be addressed. If you all are so concerned about these issues, adopt a password scheme for the blog. Or, at least, have the integrity to address concerns about these issues to every person who switches screen names, not just those you disagree with. By the way, speaking of “silver”, did GW ban him? I’m just wondering what happened after certain questions were asked of him and there has been no answer. Or should another color be substituted for “silver?” By the way, I have already attempted an explanation of the differences between the USA and Canada/Australia. That explanation of course does not justify destructive - actually, even self-destructive - activities by ethnics in the latter countries. It does suggest that, for example, in Canada, the French example was a clear indication that further diversifying the European mix was not going to work out well, and underscores the lack of insight of those who ignored their own nation’s history and thought otherwise. 128
Posted by Guessedworker on October 18, 2007, 05:30 AM | # Nope, didn’t ban him. In any case, it should be understood by all that banning is ineffective more often than not. Even Aussie Jimbo, with his lovingly crafted but not overly articulate Blog of Hate, can pop up whenever he pleases and offer a few disjointed thoughts. With the spread of IP number-generating software, banning is fast approaching the status of gesture politics. The real issue is not, then, whether one should attempt to exclude by that means but whether, as JW has suggested, the threads should be accessible by membership only. However, even this won’t stop the determined. It didn’t stop “Raina”, as Scim has explained. In the end one has to face-down or ignore destructiveness, and cleave to the principle that openness is worthy in its own right. And I do. 129
Posted by Guessedworker on October 18, 2007, 06:04 AM | # I agree, JW, that it is a bit unfair to castigate you for your morph-ology. “AA”/Northerner/fkaa etc, etc makes his points as he pleases, and few of us probably realise it is the same person - though in fairness Fred picked it this time. Thinking a bit more about this ethnic/racial dichotomy, the rule is: an hegemony of a single “other” always motivates minority opposition, irrespective of any issues arising from genetic distance if more than one minority is so motivated. Since this is happening in a liberal polity, the breaking of the majority’s hegemony is also the breaking of the European minorities’ ethnic solidarity. Third World minorities will survive the process in tact, standing as they do at a greater genetic distance and possessing a higher degree of ethnocentrism. For European minority members, though, the future is the same atomisation, dispossession and panmixia that the majority suffers now. The personal-political will be the only sphere of European existence - it is, of course, already. It’s a grim outlook, and I have to say that, in contemplating it here, we are substantially weakened by the loss of JW. 130
Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 18, 2007, 08:50 AM | #
You can almost see the same tendency in Dienekes Pontikos, so deep and intense is his resentment against more northerly Euros. His sense of warm satisfaction at every bit of evidence of race-replacement of northern Euros by non-whites, especially Negroes, is palpable. As for JW’s participation here: I second every voice that’s expressed appreciation and a wish for it to continue, notwithstanding that I’ve had my own clashes with him (some of them quite mild, such as during his criticisms of JJR, and some more heated, such as when I claimed certain populations of Sub-Saharans qualified as a distinct human species). His contributions here, both as blogger and commenter in the threads, have obviously been of decisive value for the blog and irreplaceable. JW: you are highly esteemed here. Do stay! Next entry: The Occidental Observer Previous entry: Black Volunteers for US Military Service Plummets |
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]with a large Catholic church at its centre, mimicking Peace Village. [...]
Posted by anothercommenter on October 10, 2007, 01:18 PM | #
Oddo is one of the few council members who votes the right way on immigration. He opposed a NYC Council resolution criticizing HR 4437 in 2005. He opposed another resolution which criticized the Real ID Act for preventing illegal aliens from getting driver’s licenses. He opposed a third resolution which urged passage of the Kennedy-McCain immigration bill. Staten Island may be full of guidos, but they don’t take shit.