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The Collected Sayings of OZKT29BIn which various claims and assertions are collated for further review. Here is an introductory comment which will lead us into what follows. This was addressed to guessedworker:
Being practical folk ourselves we are anxious to give OZK a proper opportunity to defend his positions at said levels.
Taking this as our point of departure we can enumerate OZK’s stated positions as follows. All citations use his own words, with minimal extraneous commentary, except where deemed strictly necessary. Many if not all of the following claims and assertions have been addressed by various commentators, in whole or in part. The reason they appear here again is because OZK has not acknowledged that the responses provided by MR contributors have answered his concerns, so we may consider them to be unresolved and open questions. It would seem to be incumbent upon OZK to advise which of the following (if any) he is no longer prepared to stand behind in the light of what he has heard here, and which he would still wish to pursue. I have numbered them for convenience, so it should be simple for OZK to indicate which he wishes to concede or let lie and which he wishes to continue to defend. In the absence of a particular response we may assume that the answer is ‘let it stand’, in which case let the games commence!
Posted by Dan Dare on Sunday, February 14, 2010 at 03:38 AM in Comments:2
Posted by Bill on February 14, 2010, 05:27 AM | # 1. On existential threats. I would like some clarification here please. I personally use, English/British (purely as a local emphasis) but in a wider context as a catch all euphemism for Euro heterosexual white male. IOW’s Euro white civilisation. What does Ozy mean when he talking about the English? Just English or whites in a wider context? On a general note, I find it intriguing to be privy to the liberal mindset, and appreciate the spirit in which he (I’m assuming again) is entering the fray. However, I cannot help but notice Ozy is very choosy about the questions he answers. I appreciate of course he is hopelessly outnumbered here (unless there is a battery of fellow CIF’ers posting under his moniker and on his behalf - only joshing) and must be hard pressed to keep up with the comments. The whole of the (now new communist universal liberal World view) has been thrust down our throat through subterfuge, stealth, coercion, mega legislation, bullying, vilifying, mass immigration, denial of freedom of speech, assault on civil liberties, corrupt political system, totalitarian police state, to name but a few. No mention of any this though. One can only assume he sees nothing to bother his conscience or mindset. 3
Posted by Grimoire on February 14, 2010, 07:33 AM | # 1. On existential threats: 1.1 OZK first point is a logical fallacy - he thoughtfully presents our argument and then informs us we have two simplistic images for choices of the future. The first choice OZK makes for us, we might agree upon. The second, remove the simplistic and the Islamic and we can then talk rationally. 1.2 This is ridiculous. Nothing concerning transportation technology justifies mass immigration. Lets apply this to your families home or your apartment. Lets apply this to all your possessions. Your receding control over your own environment should not be construed as a threat. As your neighborhoods turn into violent ghettos and your children into hostile criminal strangers take comfort in the transnational and obscure inevitability of it all. This is the logical outcome of improved communications and technology. We are say it is not, nor should it be. Something is illogical about these logical outcomes. And we know what it is, It is obvious, not obscure. So obvious that I am, as Dan Dare would say, spittle flecked. 1.3 You say we conflate tolerance with denial of preservation of Europeans.
2.1 (I cannot take this person seriously anymore) ‘we are more likely to be flooded as a result of climate change than we are at risk of reaching the carrying capacity.’ 3. On genetic distance and racial classification 3.1 No one cares if it satisfies your genetic criteria. The science of genetics is in it’s infancy and the historic nations of the world are not mice to experiment on. This holly go lightly approach suggests you are not capable of examining your own questions without the frame of references provided by your masters - like 1.1
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Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 07:33 AM | # Bill, on existential threat - I am saying that the indigenous White British do not face an existential threat. Culturally, my contention is that British culture has largely come to be defined by its ability to absorb outside influence. Therefore, if you work on a definition of British culture as exclusively white and local (which won’t have existed in practice since before the windrush) then an argument can be made that this is under threat; however, I’m inclined to see this less as a threat than a natural progression in response to a shrinking world. I would also stand by my earlier assertion that this course has been chosen by a majority rather than imposed top-down by liberals. Dan, I’ll still stand by any of the above. OZK 5
Posted by Guessedworker on February 14, 2010, 07:43 AM | # Culture as the singular definition of a people is for the hebreic birds, Ozy. It denies the genetic existence of said people because it refuses to distinguish them. It refuses to answer their will to live. It is dishonest. A people are a genetic grouping ... an extremely extended family. Is the genetic grouping known as the English, with its ageing profile and its below-replacement fertility, “under threat” in England from other populations with a youthful profile, an above-replacement fertility, and continual addition from without? 6
Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 08:04 AM | # GW, The English are not a genetic grouping, but rather a cultural construct. English genes are not substantially different to Scandinavian, French, German - therefore the correct formulation would be Northern European. And this only works if you accept the idea that race is a viable category when discussing gene transmission - as we have already gone over, the consensus around this idea has not been built as yet. The experts in the field congregate around the organism as the highest unit. Therefore it seems your interest in adopting the ‘ethny’ idea is primarily political and not scientific. To say that the English are a cultural construct, however, is not to deny that they can be considered an ethnic grouping. As such, you are correct is saying that the English are ageing and reproducing disproportionally to non-Europeans - as I previously said, it’s alarmist to see this as an existential threat. There’s more and more appetite for strong immigration caps on Non-EU migration, and I reckon we’ll see this fully in effect in the next 5/10 years - in the life-span of an ethnicity that’s 2 seconds. I know you completely disagree with all of the above - the challenge is to prove me wrong, not just re-iterate that you think I’m wrong. Also, since you are on the ‘pragmatic’ thread perhaps you could address my point about how you see your thoughts being applied in the real world? OZK 7
Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 08:18 AM | # Further to the above, it might help push things forward if you were to clarify how you came to see the English as a viable unit for gene transmission? If it is not a cultural construct, how to explain that there was no concept of ‘the English’ until 500AD? As you’ll know, the timescales involved when looking at genes are orders of magnitude greater, so the ‘English’ has existed as an idea, in genetic terms, for less than 5 minutes. NB: rhetoric or gut feelings are not satisfactory as an explanation. 8
Posted by Captainchaos on February 14, 2010, 08:24 AM | #
Look at the genetic clusters on this map and see if you don’t change your tune: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ro2ijOk8JWc/SLs7sALkwoI/AAAAAAAAATs/sa2Ig1gv31M/s1600-h/novembre.jpg
So you confess above your own inclination to assign legitimate group status to Northern Europeans, with certain provisos of course. It is a process of attrition, is it not?
You probably wouldn’t like the answer to that, but as Ozy is a big boy, I’m sure he realizes that the world does not revolve around him, and therefore his own personal opinion, or any non-native British opinion for that matter, is meaningless in saying what goes as to securing the genetic continuity of native Britons. The answer is non-native residence of the UK would be repatriated, every last one of them, and the mongrels that have sprung up as a result of this race-replacement genocide too. You beg the question, I answer it, and I don’t insult you by beating around the bush with airy esoterica. 9
Posted by Guessedworker on February 14, 2010, 08:43 AM | # CC, Dasein has already produced evidence for the European groupings here: http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/a_reply_to_ozy/P0/#c88559 Ozy is not operating in the realm of evidential proofs, but in that of neo-Marxist faith, all the while projecting his faith principle onto us. This is a necessary corollary to left-racism, in that it mimics left-racism’s buffering of itself against its own internal inconsistencies by projecting racism on to the great unwashed white outgroup ... on white skin ... thereby proving to itself, since it also has white skin, its moral and intellectual superiority. Ozy has to be made to understand that he did not author these faith postures or the behaviour of projection which maintains them. Now he has to be brought into conflict with himself (ie, the projection has to stop, and he has to confront his own unconciousness) before anything else can happen for him. 10
Posted by danielj on February 14, 2010, 08:51 AM | # The English are not a genetic grouping, but rather a cultural construct. So there is no such thing as genocide and the cultural devastation that occurs as a result of massive population transfer is rationalized away. What exactly did the Hutus and Tutsi do to each other? English genes are not substantially different to Scandinavian, French, German - therefore the correct formulation would be Northern European. That is just like, your opinion, man and ‘substantial’ is a very, very relative term. 11
Posted by danielj on February 14, 2010, 08:57 AM | # What exactly did the Hutus and Tutsi do to each other? Seriously? Was it just a culture war that spilled over into murder? Competing memetic abstractions? 12
Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 09:01 AM | # Captain, It’s long been clear that you are the 40 watt bulb in this room, so it’s no surprise that you’ll be the one to drop your guard and say what the practical application of the MR thinking would look like. You’ll note that more seasoned contributors like Dare and GW sensibly exercise caution on this. Ok, you say:
Tell me, captain, how does the UK make its living? We have no manufacturing and no export business to speak of, therefore our business is the knowledge economy and advisory services. This has become the case since the late 70’s, therefore well after the first major waves of immigration. The outcome is that the immigrants and their descendants have been fully integrated, and become integral, in our economy. What do you think will happen when you forcibly remove 20% of the population? Presumably you would need to fill all those empty jobs with indigenous British - what’s the chances that you’ll have the best person for each job? Obviously international trade links will be disproportionally hit, and foreign corporations (and the tax revenue they bring) will need to entirely withdraw. As we have already established that professional services are our bread and butter, this will literally be an unprecedented catastrophe for Britain. As we sell our services in a fiercely competitive international market, this won’t be a stumbling block while the indigenous are trained up - it’ll be a death blow, as others will quickly fill the gap. The standard of living for the British left behind will dramatically drop, and their ability to wield any power on the world stage (essential when we consider the scramble for natural resources, against such dinosaurs as Russia, China and the US) will become practically non-existent. This, Captain, is why Griffin will never the drawn on the mechanics of implementing his proposals. It’s also, I suspect, why GW wisely stays on the safety of the metaphysical plain. OZK 13
Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 09:12 AM | # danielj, What do you think the Hutus and Tutsis were doing? Obeying deep genetic imperatives? There’s actually no genetic difference between them, so their collective lunacy was entirely memetic, yes.
No, that’s not my opinion. The English and the other Germanic North European people are exactly the same people, genetically speaking - that’s why nobody was English until after 500 AD. That ‘English’ is a cultural construct isn’t up for debate. The way I’m reading GW and Dasein is that the cultural construct now manifests itself as a genetic imperative, and I have yet to be sold on that, even. OZK 14
Posted by danielj on February 14, 2010, 09:17 AM | # The English and the other Germanic North European people are exactly the same people, genetically speaking - that’s why nobody was English until after 500 AD. There were no “humans” until a certain time period either. Would you extend your critique to the entire human race? Are they an abstraction too? What do you think the Hutus and Tutsis were doing? Obeying deep genetic imperatives? There’s actually no genetic difference between them, so their collective lunacy was entirely memetic, yes. I take a more nuanced view of the subject. I’m not a physicalist or genetic determinist like you and GW. So, when you went to see Don Cheadle play the good guy in Hotel Rwanda did you shake you head and think to yourself how stupid those collectively insane niggers were for engaging in their fratricidal conflict? Did you patiently explain to your liberal friends that Hutu and Tutsi are just abstractions? That no genocide occurred? 15
Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 09:48 AM | # GW, RE: Dasein’s graphs - why can those trends not be read as manifestations of deeply ingrained cultural attitudes, rather than as evidence for a truth at the gene level? I would say that they also chime with logistical realities, insofar as immigration is a relatively recent phenomenon, so it follows that Northern Europeans have only recently had the chance to procreate with non-Europeans. Dasein’s graphs show a state of affairs, but how that came to be is still open to interpretation. I would contend that your interpretation is politically motivated, and as always couched in rhetoric, like this:
I thought the purpose of having two threads was that one could be kept in the pragmatic sphere? OZK 16
Posted by 0 on February 14, 2010, 10:05 AM | #
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL 17
Posted by Guessedworker on February 14, 2010, 10:32 AM | # Oz, why can those trends not be read as manifestations of deeply ingrained cultural attitudes, rather than as evidence for a truth at the gene level? They are the results of studies using multi-array DNA analysis, which has a current resolution down to the level where the cantons of Switzerland, for example, are distinguishable. They demonstrate that genetic clustering - the sharing of distinctive genes - is a function of geography. They don’t demonstrate that culture arises as a function of geography. Culture arises as a function of ethny. It is not too strong to say that the dominant - massively dominant - belief system in our age, in which you are fully absorbed, constitutes a struggle against the struggle for life for the European. This is, therefore, first a philosophical problem, then a political problem, then a racial problem. We begin with the acquisition of a critique of the dominant system ... we separate ourselves from it ... we labour to acquire a philosophy of more fundamental things than individualism and universalism ... we seek political expression ... and power ... we seek to enact our core life-values and re-found the polity and, through that, our people’s security and continuity. This is called “racism” by the forces that oppose that security and continuity. They are not forces of our people in any way. They are narrow and self-interested, and they dare not speak their name, instead clothing themselves and their genocidalism in high-sounding moralisms. You have bought into those moralisms. We are offering you the opportunity to break free - that’s all this conversation is about. We have, all of us, had it many times before. Northern Europeans have only recently had the chance to procreate with non-Europeans. It is in the nature of the Negroid to fuck excessively by Caucasoid and Mongoloid standards. Do you not even know that the evolutionary strategy of a human population confronting the intractable dual threats of drought and disease is to reproduce? Probably not. Well, this “high-r” strategy explains the African intelligence as well as its sexualisation. Numbers win in Africa. Fucking wins, not problem solving. But when Homo sapiens came to the cold-climate regions where there is little food for 8 months in the year, the high-r strategy did not help. More mouths to feed were not the solution to passing on one’s genes. The solution required intelligence and a high investment in the care of smaller numbers of children - “high-K”. Natural selection did the rest, and that is why the Han average IQ 105, exhibit a lower sexualisation and higher “K” than Africans, and why Europeans average 100 IQ and have a sexualisation somewhere between the two. And that’s also why Africa is what it is and why human progress has been maximised in the northern hemisphere. I thought the purpose of having two threads was that one could be kept in the pragmatic sphere? Only trying to help (you). 18
Posted by Down at Neathergate Drive. on February 14, 2010, 10:38 AM | # On the political front, to claim that the British people ‘overwhelmingly voted Labour in 2005’ is erroneous. 19
Posted by Down at Neathergate Drive. on February 14, 2010, 10:41 AM | # Furthermore, Ian Jack (by far my favourite newspaper columnist), had an excellent assesment of ‘Neathergate’ in Saturday’s (13th) Guardian. 20
Posted by Guessedworker on February 14, 2010, 10:55 AM | # Thanks, here’s the article by Ian Jack, which I had not come across previously (no comment thread, I see): http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2010/feb/13/ian-jack-immigration-general-election
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Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 01:06 PM | # GW On the question of IQ and race: Firstly the correlation between IQ and ‘intelligence’, as applicable to everyday cognisance, has been brought into question; in essence it could well be that an IQ test only determines the subject’s aptitude at taking tests, rather than accurately indicating their intelligence. If seen in this context, the IQ gap between races could be down to socio-economic factors, nutrition, birth weight, and any number of non-genetic factors. That said, the debate seems to be ongoing as to whether the gap can be explained genetically or environmentally. A tentative consensus seems to be building around the notion that it may be some combination of the two. Some have theorised that IQ levels in races are not static (the Flynn Effect), and that there’s a distinct possibility the IQ gap between races could eventually converge. Jared Diamond (in Guns, Germs and Steel) already put forward the theory that sub-Saharan societies developed slower than European ones because of the logistical barrier in getting the fertile crescent ‘crop package’ over the Sahara, thus slowing their transition to farming from hunting/gathering; and this, taken in conjunction with the fact that it remains undecided what external influences act on IQ, could mean that the gap is transitory and subject to change over time. This last theory is given credence by the fact that IQ levels are lowest among those who were the last to leave the hunting/gathering life (due to geography), such as the Aboriginals. There’s nothing concrete as yet to indicate that the IQ gap is a permanent feature. As an aside, in your understanding of the IQ gap, would Europeans be considered ‘inferior’ to East Asians? On the question of birth-rate and race: It’s totally nonsensical to suggest that non-Whites are genetically predisposed to reproduce at a higher rate. The overall consensus on this is that cultural factors play a much more fundamental role - Europeans have higher education standards and lower levels of religious beliefs, both of which are directly related to the prevalence of birth control in Europe when contrasted to, say, sub-Saharan Africa. As I said before, transcontinental migration is relatively a very recent phenomenon, and there’s no reason to think that descendants of the current non-European migrants won’t start reproducing at the European level as each generation gets more assimilated, and therefore better educated and more secular. On the question of genetic clustering: You say:
That’s a classic circular argument. If genetic clustering is a function of geography, then where does the ethny come into it? There’s no need for it in the explanation, in your own terms. Genetic clustering is entirely down to geography, and culture is a direct product of that. It’s a hallmark of a flawed idea when it needs to be shoehorned into existing, self-contained arguments. Geographically, in the evolutionary 24 hour cycle, Europeans encountered non-Europeans at 11.53pm. Occam’s razor suggests that there is absolutely no need for any further examination of the causes of genetic clustering - no need, that is, unless your objective is to graft existing science to a political objective. OZK 22
Posted by Bill on February 14, 2010, 01:26 PM | # According to the conspiracy wing nuts, which to a degree includes me I suppose, a consensus exists to the effect that a coup by the world’s elite is about to take place, or to be more precise, a coup a has been underway since 9/11. Hence this conversation. I am of course refferring to the New World Order. (NWO) Incidentally, I note with interest your views on the carrying capacity of these Isles. A central tenet of the NWO is the goal of reducing the world’s population to half a billion people. (by 2050) In view of your carrying capacity comments, how do you reconcile these two competing aims? Or if you prefer, what is your take on the NWO conspiracy theory? Just curious. 23
Posted by 0 on February 14, 2010, 01:36 PM | #
As Desmond said, we are dealing with an evolutionary illiterate. It is pointless to discuss evolution and genetics with someone who thinks graphs of genetic clustering based on DNA sequence data are “manifestations of deeply ingrained cultural attitudes.” 24
Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 01:45 PM | # Bill,
I think it’s paranoid nonsense, since you ask. 25
Posted by Bill on February 14, 2010, 02:01 PM | # February 14, 2010, 05:45 PM
That was squick - thanks. 26
Posted by Dasein on February 14, 2010, 03:48 PM | # Dan, perhaps you could add a section ‘On language’ and include the following:
He said he would discuss terminology, and what is wrong with using Negro, but I don’t see that he ever did. 27
Posted by Dan Dare on February 14, 2010, 03:56 PM | # OK Dasein. Added as 7.1. Not that the numbers are needed since OZK is standing firm on everyone so far. 28
Posted by Dan Dare on February 14, 2010, 04:01 PM | #
Commendably brief, thank you. Now, I’d like to take up again the theme of carrying capacity, and will pose the same question as in the other thread but which seems to have gone unanswered:
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Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 04:13 PM | # Dasein, Re: terminology - I read that magic words entry but didn’t see much thought behind it. You have words to ‘establish genetic distance’ - it begs the question as to why you need to do that in conversation, let alone why you would need to do it in such a hurry that you need only one word for it. The reason I would not use the magic words myself is because they have acquired negative connotations through usage in a derogatory context. Most of what I have read on MR has been about genetic difference, immigration etc. but not much of it seems to advocate actual antagonism towards other races. That’s why I drew the parallel between the terminology and race-hate - because that’s the clear connotation that these terms have acquired in their history. Of course you already know that. Calling a black man a negro does more than establish genetic distance (which could be achieved by saying ‘there is some genetic distance between your race and mine’ - it would only take an additional 3 seconds or so to say, rather than ‘negro!’), it actively serves to antagonise the other person. Where’ the benefit? Do you actually use the magic words in real world situations? Do you call black people ‘negroes’ to their face? OZK 30
Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 04:45 PM | # Dan, On carrying capacity: My original statement was that the UK is not in any sense close to the upper limit of is carrying capacity, whatever that upper limit might be (I’m not sure what it is). I arrived at that conclusion using a method that has been recommended numerous times here on MR - by taking what I see around me into consideration. No place in the UK is as dangerously overcrowded as the slums of Mumbai, for example, and you don’t generally get people living 10 to a room. The roads are navigable, and our infrastructure is not under any serious strain. We do have a large elderly population, but as the baby boomers gradually depart for the next life there should in theory be a decrease in those numbers. The birth rate is roughly at replacement level, and we have yet to get numbers on how many migrants left the country following the GBP nosedive since 2008. Nobody starves to death, catches dysentery, or any of the other hallmarks of 3rd world overpopulation. We have much more vacant properties than homeless people, so that’s an issue more of asset allocation than overpopulation. Add to that my opinion that we will get the Australian style immigration caps in the next 5/10 years, I see no reason to be unduly alarmed that we are about to hit the upper limit of the UK carrying capacity, on present trends. Also, we have already established that I am inclined to trust expert consensus in whatever field I am not an expert in. If this was a real danger, I suspect the leftist conspiracy would struggle to keep those experts out of the news (especially given the demands of the 24 hour news cycle, and their taste for the most sensational claims) - and yet they are nowhere to be seen. Since you are looking to foreground the issue, perhaps you could elaborate on why you do think that this is something to be alarmed about? OZK 31
Posted by Bill on February 14, 2010, 05:02 PM | # February 14, 2010, 11:33 AM
You have had a busy day today - pity, you have not had time to peruse this. Especially the comments section. Immigration: a plan to alter the nation’s soul Telegraph 15.02.2010 32
Posted by Dasein on February 14, 2010, 05:03 PM | #
This is too dumb for words. 33
Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 05:12 PM | # Dasein, Re: the magic words, again. When I posted that comment about race-hate, there was a general feel of feathers being ruffled on the thread. However race-hate is the clear and unambiguous message attached to the words - surely we can agree on that? Note I am not saying that the words intrinsically carry that meaning, only that they have acquired it through being used in such a context. In your view, what’s the benefit of the magic words? OZK 34
Posted by Guessedworker on February 14, 2010, 05:13 PM | # Ozy, Years ago I used to be quite hot on the IQ debate, read the papers, kept abreast of Jewish feints, flamed the environmentalists on threads all over the place. It was easy. They are wrong. If they were right and all humans have the same potential, evolution must stop at the neck and Marx must take over ... except for the annoying fact that the negro brain, which is on average small and light, would have to produce more processing power per cubic centremetre to be “equal” to, say, the large, heavy Ashkenazic brain. And how would it do that? I’ve seen Howard Gardner’s efforts to spread the load beyond “g”, intelligence-wise. We have at least one take-down on that in our archive (by Matt Nuenke, I think). I’ve read about Diamond’s stratagem. He’s a Jew, and I’m Jew-aware. I know Jews ethnocenticise first, second and third, then address us as if they had never even seen a Jewish ethnic interest in all their lives, and what I think of as Jewish ethnic interests in diaspore are just the best p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e thing for my health and welfare. Well, no. I would never, ever take what a Jew - a political Jew - tells me in matters of my people’s safety and security at face value. I’m just not that naive. Remember that list of Jewish-authored political “gifts”. Do you really think that we Europeans would have come up with all that anti-European hogwash by ourselves? there’s a distinct possibility the IQ gap between races could eventually converge. No there isn’t. Negro brains are, on average, small and light. The best average you can get out of them with a hundred years of Western education, Western liberal guilt, Western taxes, Western diet - which is the main factor - and some European genes, is around the 85 to 88 level. Africa weighs in around 68, however. The requirement for entry among negroes to Wittwatersstrand University, the premier seat of learning on the African continent, is 85. The gap is not closing. When I was involved in this debate I used to quote from a study reported by the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which is a perfectly scholarly and respected African-American publication. They follow the IQ question very closely, as you can imagine. They have - or had - the courage to face facts, and the fact was that the gap was intractable in the extreme. Among intelligent and informed men, pretty much only Jews and liberal whites shill for equality in defiance of the facts. It has been going on for years. Franz Boas’s seminal 1910 study of the plasticity of negro skulls received unquestioning support until it emerged in 2002 that he had simply made up the results, even inventing 4000 skull measurements that he never took. Did the aforementioned Jews and liberal whites take a step back, and contemplate their position? Not for one minute. Up pops Diamond with the next stratagem, and here you are referencing it! You do not need to sully your thoughts with such deceptions. It’s OK to start reviewing the faith you hold. It is false. 36
Posted by Dan Dare on February 14, 2010, 05:36 PM | # I’ll return to the baseline rationale for concern about carrying capacity (sustainable population level) in a while, but I note that you have not responded to my question about future vision. Whether or not you accept that the UK will ever reach its ultimate carrying capacity - a characteristic which you are unable to articulate - would you be concerned at the prospect of large areas of Britain coming to resemble Singapore or Hong Kong (in the best case) or, more likely, Mumbai, Lagos or Dhaka (in the worst). I am making an assumption that you have actually visited any of these places or at least have an inkling of what they are actually like. 37
Posted by Guessedworker on February 14, 2010, 05:52 PM | # Ozy, As an aside, in your understanding of the IQ gap, would Europeans be considered ‘inferior’ to East Asians? No ... http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/sft.htm It’s totally nonsensical to suggest that non-Whites are genetically predisposed to reproduce at a higher rate. I said “Sub-Saharan Africans”, not “non-whites”. You really have a lot to learn, Ozy. It isn’t surprising. The Jewish biologists who organised the Sociobiology Study Group to kill off the implications of evolutionary theory for Marxist egalitarianism, in effect, deprived you of a proper understanding of the world. Your adherence to racial equality above the neck and in every other way is a direct result of that, since sociobiology was forced underground, only to emerge a few years later sanitised and made safe for egalitarians by John Tooby, who is Jewish by the way. When people are asked to name an evolutionary psychologist now they invariably come up with Stephen Pinker first. Stephen is ... Jewish. A kind of Anthony Daniels of the evopsyche world. The overall consensus on this is that cultural factors play a much more fundamental role - Europeans have higher education standards and lower levels of religious beliefs, both of which are directly related to the prevalence of birth control in Europe when contrasted to, say, sub-Saharan Africa. The overall concensus is a production. Why do Sub-Saharan African men and women have, on average, larger genitals than Han Chinese? Why do SSA’s begin sexual activity, on average, four to five years earlier than Han Chinese. Why does it take a village to raise a child in tribal Africa, Ozy, and two married Han parents in China? Do you understand that the world is not actually represented by the model you have of it, and the reason for that is that the model is a lie? As I said before, transcontinental migration is relatively a very recent phenomenon, and there’s no reason to think that descendants of the current non-European migrants won’t start reproducing at the European level as each generation gets more assimilated, and therefore better educated and more secular. If we don’t expel them, they will marginalise us and we shall lose ourselves entirely. We do not have the luxury of endless “tolerance” towards our replacers. You said earlier that I wisely stick to metaphysics. But that’ not true, though you could not know: http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/to_do_what_we_must_to_remain_who_we_are/ We must live, and live sovereign and free in our own lands, and in solitude. That is the bottom line for any politics of Life, and any cost in achieving that is bearable - even challenging economics! Life trumps everything. That’s a classic circular argument. Ozy, you do realise that a mouth-swab does not reveal cultural affinity, don’t you? Of course you do. So perhaps you can apply yourself constructively to what we say about populations and ethnicity, rather than wriggle away trying to convince yourself - and only yourself - that you have dealt with the argument. Genetic variation in human populations occurs for two reasons: 1. Local selection of adaptive traits. 2. Constraints on gene flow caused by major geographic features. Geography turns out to be important:- http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1000500 Keep at it, Ozy. We won’t lose patience, and you are doing fine. 38
Posted by Dasein on February 14, 2010, 06:22 PM | # I think one of the strongest pieces of evidence for Rushton’s theory is the racial difference in dizygotic twin birth rates between Negroids, Whites, and East Asians (16+, 8, and <4 per thousand, respectively- Bulmer, 1970). I don’t find his data on testosterone convincing, nor the difference in Negro/White genital size (n/a has discussed these topics on his blog). 39
Posted by Guessedworker on February 14, 2010, 06:29 PM | # Dasein, n/a is a committed Nordicist, and in the Nordic air there seem to be strange echoes of Josef Goebbels telling the world, after Max Schmelling’s first fight against Joe Louis, ““Schmeling’s victory was not only sport. It was a question of prestige for our race.” 40
Posted by D Allen on February 14, 2010, 06:33 PM | #
No surprise. His primary motive for seeking to preserve native European majorities in the West is that he thinks his life will be better if he is amongst people who are genetically disposed to be moral, intelligent and future-oriented, and he thinks that Europeans fulfil these criteria better than the immigrant populations. He may also have some regard for European culture, but he has gone out of his way to show us that he is completely disinterested in preserving the European genotype, and according to him “The bottom line is that it is certainly never rational to make unreciprocated sacrifices for one’s ethny on the grounds of ethnic kinship and probably never rational to act according to ethnic interests at all. Rather, the rational course is for the individual to maximize his own fitness without regard for the well-being of his ethnicity.” So he is not really pro-European, just a realistic individualist (which is better than being a Marxist, but is it really necessary for him to spend his time snidely criticising legitimate pro-European thought?) His article isn’t worth arguing with; I don’t think it’s going to upset anyone who might be persuaded by the EGI concept. The GNXP criticism is much more effective. Heck, I don’t even disagree with most of what he wrote; but it’s all about whether ethnic altriusm could have evolved and this is basically tangential and almost irrelevant to the EGI argument as far as I’m concerned. 41
Posted by Dasein on February 14, 2010, 06:34 PM | #
That is not how they acquired this meaning. The meaning was given to them for a reason. See if you can figure it out.
It should be obvious from my earlier post to which you referred. 42
Posted by D Allen on February 14, 2010, 07:04 PM | #
OZKT29B, the practical function of communication isn’t always to engage in rational, thoughtful discourse with equal power. Negro is a useful word (as I understand the idea of magic words) because it is casual enough to use in ordinary text or conversation, but also has a strong taxonomic connotation. When this word is used, it influences the other person by subconsciously establishing and/or reinforcing a sense that the subject, person(s) of sub-Saharan descent, is genetically distant from ourselves. Liberals discourage the use of this word for that reason; they prefer us to use ‘black’, because this is un-taxonomic and it reinforces their ‘race = skin colour’ meme. On the other hand the phrase ‘there is a lot of genetic distance between his race and ours’ does not achieve this subconscious influence, because it is too verbose - it’s talking to the conscious mind, which is not what buzz words are for. A bit like using “We are capable of implementing our plans” rather than “Yes we can”. ‘Nigger’ on the other hand is less taxonomic and a more hateful word, which is why we prefer ‘negro’. 43
Posted by Thunder on February 14, 2010, 07:07 PM | # Reading OZKT29B’s comment on IQ and race at 05:06, I have to ask myself why bother. Once again prove the sky is blue. Has he read anything by Jensen, Rushton, Gottfredson or even the concensus of the APA? Quoting the contrived work of Diamond is a give away. What ever happened to Occam’s Razor? These are the same old lines repeated over and over. A mountain of evidence is never enough. Debating this kind of ideology that is impervious to even common sense and practical observation is a waste of cyber ink. Look at Vanhanen and Lyn isn’t the corellation between GNP and IQ results spookily universal. Just look at the world for crying out loud. Black area = underdeveloped regardless of the start, location, history. You are wasting your time guys OZKT29B is ideologically immune to any evidence. 44
Posted by Revolution Harry on February 14, 2010, 07:27 PM | # “I think it’s paranoid nonsense, since you ask.” Sadly it isn’t Oz. The New World Order is a euphemism favoured by the elites for their agenda to create a World Government. Such disparate characters as Gordon Brown, George Bush, Mikhail Gorbachev, Henry Kissinger, the Pope, Nikolas Sarkozy and Barack Obama have all called for a NWO. What do you think they mean when they do this? “The synthesis sought by the Establishment is called the New World Order. Without controlled conflict this New World Order will not come about. ... And this is being done with the calculated, managed, use of conflict. ... This explains why the International bankers backed the Nazis, the Soviet Union, [and] North Korea ... against the United States. The ‘conflict’ ... [builds] profits while pushing the world ever closer to One World Government. The process continues today.” Professor Anthony Sutton, The Hidden Evil. The Hegelian synthesis being sought is between the Internationalist/Communist/Socialist/Marist/Left (thesis) and the Globalist/Super Capitalist/Free Trade/Right (anti-thesis). A thinly veiled totalitarian dictatorship run by and for the blood-line elite families that control all resources (including human) and who, through the fractional reserve, central banking system can create money from thin air and charge a commission (interest) on every currency unit created. For an example of our future think China with a false democracy. This last element of the control system we live under (and which is being expanded) is perhaps the most important. It’s what gives them their power and immense wealth and enables them to own and control all corporations (including the media) and to manipulate governments to their advantage. In 1881, during his first year in office, American President James Garfield released a statement containing the following paragraph: “Whosoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce… And when you realise that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate.” He was assassinated shortly after. Such, it appears, is the fate of any American president who goes against the interests of the international banking cartels. Former Chancellor of Exchequer, Reginald McKenna also hinted at the power of the bankers when he said: ” I am afraid the ordinary citizen will not like to be told that the banks can and do create money. And they who create and issue money and credit, direct the policies of government and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people.” The words of economist William Lyon Mackenzie King, who later went on to become Canada’s longest serving Prime Minister, are also quite pertinent. He said: “Once a nation parts with the control of its currency and credit, it matters not who makes the nations laws. Usury, once in control, will wreck any nation. Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognised as its most sacred responsibility, all talk of the sovereignty of parliament and of democracy is idle and futile.” For clear evidence of the World Government (NWO) agenda you need look no further than either the Fabian Socialists or the Cecil Rhodes Round Table network off-shoots such as the Royal Institute of International Affairs in Britain and the Council on Foreign relations and the Trilateral Commission in America. Here are a few quotes from prominent Fabians: “Gradually, by selective breeding, the congenital differences between rulers and ruled will increase until they become almost different species. A revolt of the plebs would become as unthinkable as an organized insurrection of sheep against the practice of eating mutton.” Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society. “Science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated” in other-words the public will not be allowed to know how it’s beliefs and opinions were scientifically manipulated by the government to think a certain way. “Ordinary men and women will be expected to be docile, industrious, punctual, thoughtless, and contented. Of these qualities probably contentment will be considered the most important. In order to produce it, all the researches of psycho-analysis, behaviourism, and biochemistry will be brought into play.” Bertrand Russell, The Scientific Manipulation of Our Reality. Oz, we’ve all been and continue to be brainwashed and had our ‘beliefs and opinions .. scientifically manipulated by the government’. That said, it doesn’t work on everyone which is why anyone espousing views of a ‘nationalistic’ type have to be vilified and ostracised. “I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is mass psychology….Various results will soon be arrived at: that the influence of home is obstructive….although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for a generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen .... Educational propaganda, with government help, could achieve this result in a generation. There are, however, two powerful forces opposed to such a policy: one is religion; the other is nationalism….A scientific world society cannot be stable unless there is a world government.” Bertrand Russell: “The Impact of Science on Society”, 1953. As you can see ‘Nationalism’ is one of the ‘forces’ they are trying to destroy. Mass immigration is just one of their weapons in this battle. Diversity is the age old elite tactic of ‘divide and rule’. Ethnic minorities are being cynically used to destroy national identity in order to smooth the path to World Government. We are both pawns and victims in this game. Although it may appear that what is being done is to the advantage of ethnic minorities it is not. It is merely a temporary stage in the process that will see all suffer in the NWO to come. “… when the struggle seems to be drifting definitely towards a world social democracy, there may still be very great delays and disappointments before it becomes an efficient and beneficent world system. Countless people … will hate the new world order … and will die protesting against it. When we attempt to evaluate its promise, we have to bear in mind the distress of a generation or so of malcontents, many of them quite gallant and graceful-looking people.” H. G. Wells: “The New World Order”, 1940. “Behind the division of humanity stand those Enlightened Ones whose right and privilege it is to watch over human evolution and to guide the destinies of men… This they do through the implanting of ideas in the minds of the world thinkers, so that these ideas in due time receive recognition and eventually become controlling factors in human life. They train the members of the New Group of World Servers in the task of changing these ideas into ideals. These in turn become the desired objectives of the thinkers and are then taught to the powerful middle class and worked up into world forms of governments or religion, thus forming the basis of the New World Order.” Alice Bailey, Occultist, Fabian and Head of the Lucis (formerly Lucifer) Trust. The Lucis (formerly Luciferian - please note this is VERY important) Trust still operates as the printer and disseminator of UN material. “To play those millions of minds, to watch them slowly respond to an unseen stimulus, to guide their aspirations without their knowledge – all this whether in high capacities or in humble, is a big and endless game of chess, of ever extraordinary excitement.” Sidney Webb, founder of the Fabian Society. They’re playing you Oz. “We are at present working discreetly with all our might to wrest this mysterious force called sovereignty out of the clutches of the local nation states of the world. All the time we are denying with our lips what we are doing with our hands, because to impugn the sovereignty of the local nation states of the world is still a heresy for which a statesman or publicist can perhaps not quite be burned at the stake but certainly be ostracized or discredited.” Arnold Toynbee - International Affairs (journal of the Royal Institute of International Affairs, i.e. the British version of the Council on Foreign Relations) Nov 1931, “The Trend of International Affairs Wince the War” Here are a few other quotes: “We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries.” David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address to a meeting of The Trilateral Commission, in June, 1991. “In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasnt such a great idea after all.” Strobe Talbot, President Clintons Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992 “The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control…. Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent.” Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets. “There is no proletarian, not even a Communist movement, that has not operated in the interests of money, and for the time being permitted by money - and that without the idealists among its leaders having the slightest suspicion of the fact.” Oswald Spengler. In the interests of money Oz, that’s what it’s about and always has been. “The powers of financial capitalism had another far reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements, arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the worlds central banks which were themselves private corporations. The growth of financial capitalism made possible a centralization of world economic control and use of this power for the direct benefit of financiers and the indirect injury of all other economic groups.” Professor Carroll Quigley of Georgetown University (highly esteemed by his former student, William Jefferson Blythe Clinton), Tragedy and Hope: A History of The World in Our Time (Macmillan Company, 1966). “Communitarians (Tony Blair’s Third Way) want to create a post-modern, post-democratic feudal society run by a small number of rich and powerful people with everyone else working as peasants. In order to achieve their objectives they must destroy the middle class and the nation state. Can anyone deny that their goals are firmly on course.” Phillip Jones, The Nexus of Evil. Oz, it’s my suggestion that you are helping to bring this about with your enthusiasm for mass immigration. A concept created by the Frankfurt School as one part of the Cultural Marxist assault on the ‘West’ in order to subvert and destroy it. I’m sure you think you are working for the benefit of ethnic minorities in some way when in fact you are assisting the agenda that will destroy us all. Please visit for my site for various other articles on thus subject. You asked about solutions well it’s my firm opinion that if we all focussed on reforming the banking and finance system in place we could do irreparable damage to the NWO agenda. The centre of so much evil in this world is in that square mile of the City of London. There’s no reason why sovereign peoples can’t create their own currency, free of interest and debt, for their benefit. That includes us here in Britain. Third World debt could be eliminated and their economies free to develop, free from the control of the elites that suppress them. In those circumstances I suspect many ethnic minorities, made aware of the NWO agenda, would be only too happy to return to their (warmer) country of origin. I differ from some of those here at Majority Rights in the sense that although I would like to see the end of mass immigration and a reduction in the number of ethnic minorities here in Britain I do not foresee a time when this country will be 100% ethnically British again (though I hope to peacefully get as close to that as possible). The globalism we have at the moment is a thoroughly engineered affair but that doesn’t mean that a degree of global movement wouldn’t have taken place anyway. In those circumstances I can’t deny you the right to live in a community dominated by ethnic minorities (the future you will bestow on future generations). There’s nothing morally superior about this. The elites behind the NWO are the descendants of those behind the slave trade and Empire. The mass of British people have nothing to feel guilty about in this regard. Indeed they were little more than slaves themselves. It will be your free choice as will be those of us who wish to live in British (English, Scots etc) communities and continue our centuries old way of life, culture and yes, DNA. 45
Posted by Revolution Harry on February 14, 2010, 08:39 PM | # Apologies for, slightly, distracting from the aim of the thread but I think it’s important that the likes of Oz realise that the NWO, World Government agenda is very real and that mass immigration and Cultural Marxist concepts such as political correctness, diversity and equality are all part of the subversion and destruction of the West. Oz may think he’s operating in his and others best interests but he isn’t. He operates to the benefit of a criminal (Satanic - but that’s another veil to be pierced) elite few. Nationalism is the only bulwark against the NWO and those behind it know this. A nation is its people which is why they are swamping us with wholly unnecessary immigration. Oz, if you want to know who the British are they are the ones who it’s legal to discriminate against in the job market and who are the only ones unable to collectively represent themselves in an ethnic specific organisation. Oz might not know who the British are but those behind the NWO certainly do. 46
Posted by Q on February 14, 2010, 09:00 PM | #
Bingo! Here is the best book EVER WRITTEN that outlines the NWO, i.e. global communist agenda ... and it was written in the 1950’s! http://www.amazon.com/Pawns-Game-William-Guy-Carr/dp/0911038299 47
Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 09:16 PM | # GW, Thank you for your replies. I will address the points one evening this week, but before I sign off I just wanted to query one idea which crops up in your latest comments, beginning with the below statement:
The notion that someone pursuing a particular Jewish agenda would choose to further it by organising a Sociobiology Study Group, by which they intend to disseminate ideas which look like Sociobiology, but are actually covert Jewish propaganda - that is beyond insane all by itself, but the true insanity comes next: the idea that the work of the Study Group would do the rounds in the peer review process, would be published and read by academics in the field and interested laymen -and not a single one of these readers would ever have any idea that what they are reading is actually a factually inaccurate document, designed expressly to further a covert Jewish agenda. It just so happens that you, GW, and a handful of other observers who coincidentally share an existing suspicion of Jews, can see through this attempt to pass Jewish propaganda off as Sociobiology papers? You dismiss the Jared Diamond theory on exactly the same grounds:
You have only read about it, but that’s OK because you are Jew-aware? It doesn’t matter that he won a Pulitzer, and some other prize from the Royal Society, because presumably they are either all Jews on the judging panels, or else they, like the thousands of idiots who bought and read the book, many of whom would have been non-Jewish experts in that field, were completely taken in by a sly piece of Jewish propaganda masquerading as an anthropology book? You ascribe truly supernatural powers of persuasion and cunning to ‘the Jews’ - your inability to see the ludicrous nature of what you are saying gives the thread a strange, hallucinatory quality. I truly is bordering on the dangerously delusional, GW. If your BNP activist supporter is still reading he’ll be wishing he could delete his name from the thread, as the BNP have been working overtime to run a mile from exactly this kind of suspicious, crazy thinking. We need to sift insanity from reality if we can continue this conversation, and I would think it would be useful to you to do so not just for your MR presence, but if you want any credibility for any other statement you make. OZK 48
Posted by OZKT29B on February 14, 2010, 09:50 PM | # D Allen, On terminology you say:
Well no, sometimes the function is to engage in irrational, mindless discourse, but to re-iterate my earlier question - where’s the benefit? What advantages would that have over rational and thoughtful discourse? But wait, you’re getting to that:
Again with the subconscious implanting of meanings - that’s maybe what would happen if it wasn’t for the fact (and it is a fact) that every English speaker, of any race, immediately equates the word ‘negro’ with race hate. If you doubt the truth of that, you can conduct a simple experiment - switch off the computer, go outside and call the first person of sub-Saharan descent you see a ‘negro’. See if the effect is that the sense of genetic distance is subconsciously established and/or reinforced in his mind, or if you have just branded yourself a race-hater, and made any further discourse, rational or otherwise, completely impossible. This is just a half-baked attempt at an intellectual justification for using excitingly risque words, no doubt only on the internet, or around like-minded friends. OZK 49
Posted by Captainchaos on February 14, 2010, 09:55 PM | # No, Ozy, we dismiss Diamond as a lying, hypocritical Jew on the grounds of his own words:
50
Posted by Dan Dare on February 14, 2010, 11:31 PM | # We shouldn’t forget what it was that launched Diamond on his quest in GG&S;. It was when his Papuan companion (one of the most intelligent persons Diamond had then yet met, apparently) asked why the white man had so much cargo and the black man had none that he determined to get to the root of how Europeans had come to rule the planet. The answer is they got lucky. Had Papua New Guinea not been in the tropics it is they would have composed piano concertos and flown to the moon, while we would still be wearing necklaces of shrunken Neanderthal heads and penis gourds. It’s scientific fact, innit. They don’t pass out Pulitzer prizes for any old rubbish you know. Well, not very often anyway. 51
Posted by Anon on February 15, 2010, 04:04 AM | # n/a has cited numerous scientific studies that show that black-white differences in testosterone and penis size are negligible. But you can dogmatically dismiss them out of hand if you like. 52
Posted by Anon on February 15, 2010, 04:17 AM | # By the way, Nordicism is a perfectly legitmate form of nationalism. In fact, it is much more legitimate than “white nationalism” because the populations of northwestern Europe are much more closely related to each other than the populations of Europe as a whole. Furthermore, Nordicism is the best form of nationalism for white Americans. This is because white Americans are mainly comprised of numerous northwestern European ethnic groups instead of just one like in the case of England. 53
Posted by Dasein on February 15, 2010, 04:54 AM | #
See, Ozy, you can use magic words too. Except you can expect praise for using them in public. Around here, though, they only expose you as a hypocritical dimwit. 54
Posted by Bill on February 15, 2010, 05:06 AM | # I have slight reservations about this being O/T but Ozy might just be interested. Are we beginning to see a sea change in the way the print media (at least) are handling the unprecedented scale of immigration during the tenure of Blair/Brown new Labour project? The recent Neather revelations claiming Labour’s hidden immigration agenda (LOL) has, it seems, released the Telegraph and the Mail from the vice-like grip of political correctness and now sniff licence to tell it a little bit more like it is. Over the weekend the Telegraph’s Janet Daly and the Mail’s Peter Hitchens both have hard hitting articles basically fleshing out Neather’s revelation that Labour’s programme of mass immigration is non other than a deliberate plot to destroy Britain (and by extension its people - Bill) by cultural revolution. The applause from the comment gallery was deafening. To someone like myself, (and MR) who has been saying the same thing for years, to actually read such sentiments in the tabloid press is really the height of hypocrisy, for these journalists to come out with this stuff under the guise of we’ve only just found out - is sickening. The dam is perceptably crazing, it’s going to be a long run up to the election. 55
Posted by Down at Neathergate Drive on February 15, 2010, 05:23 AM | # In fact by any valid ecological definition, England exceeded its ‘carrying capacity’ over 200 years ago. 56
Posted by Bill on February 15, 2010, 08:17 AM | # Carrying Capacity ++ This century is already in geopolitical turmoil due to dwindling energy supplies, our boys dying in the Middle East is testimony to this fact. Britain has long exceeded its carrying capacity, the only reason we can continue to exist is by the three thousand mile salad or is it the five thousand toast-rack from China these days. To fast track millions from the under developed world to Western style consumerism might work wonders for our economy only to swiftly consign us to oblivion. 57
Posted by Dasein on February 15, 2010, 08:24 AM | # Jared Diamond, Jewish Pulitzer Prize winner and scientific charlatan, on racial differences in intelligence:
58
Posted by Dasein on February 15, 2010, 08:33 AM | # That what Diamond writes is wrong has been known for a long time, long before he wrote his award-winning book (to be fair to him, there is much of value in the book, but his thesis is garbage). The Bell Curve was, in large part, a review of the existing literature of the subject. This is the best more recent review of which I’m aware: http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/psychology/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf 59
Posted by Guessedworker on February 15, 2010, 09:39 AM | # Anon, Do you really believe that large-scale, laboratory-controlled, peer-reviewed studies of comparisons in erect penis/vaginal size by race have been carried out, and that the evidence they provide is that everyone is equal! You would be better off consulting the views of the ladies who have a wide-ranging, practical experience of these matters. From what I can see, the half-decent research funded into androgen take-up by race has been medical, not anthropological. Very little seems to be clear about the process itself. The sociological evidence for African sexualisation, on the other hand, is solid. This is what I was talking about, within the contest of Rushton’s superb thesis. If n/a or other admirers of Nordic gods don’t like one element in that thesis, too bad. But don’t pretend that there is conclusive evidence to the contrary, when the study record is so thin. Please, please do not now respond with links to this or that receptor study. It will only prompt me to ask questions about participant selection and control procedures, and we really don’t want to go into all that here. 60
Posted by BGD on February 15, 2010, 09:42 AM | # So in the vein of CiF, Occidental Dissent etc are you just deciding to delete random comments you disagree with now? 61
Posted by Q on February 15, 2010, 10:30 AM | #
.
This guy, Diamond, is either an abstruse comedian, a liar, self-deluded, or a dumbass…..or any combination of the four….. possibly all. A simple test could prove or completely discredit Diamond’s “thesis.” Simply take a group of average white twelve year old boy scouts and see if they could master the skill sets—within a months, not years—that the average group of New Guinean adults posses. I’ve little doubt the twelve year old white boy scouts would easily learn the skill sets the “more intelligent” New Guinean adults have cumulatively acquired since childhood. Conversely, take a group of those “more intelligent” New Guinean newborns and immerse them in an average white middle-class educational system. Then at age twelve, compare the average white kids’ achievement level with the “more intelligent” New Guineans. Again, I have LITTLE doubt the “more intelligent “New Guineans” would sorely lag the achievement level of the whites. However, I have NO DOUBT that putzes like Diamond would wail and gnash their teeth; then commence to invent all kinds of convoluted explanations and excuses as to why the “more intelligent” New Guineans could’t perform equal to, or better than, the “less intelligent” white kids. That has always been the typical and predictable reaction of those who practice the religion of racial egalitarianism . 62
Posted by The Neathergate Inheritance. on February 15, 2010, 11:08 AM | # Papuans practised cannibalism right up to the early 1960s. 63
Posted by Guessedworker on February 15, 2010, 11:17 AM | # Perhaps Jared Diamond believes that eating humam brains increases the brain power of the anthrophage Or perhaps he is a barely disguised hater of Europeans. 64
Posted by D Allen on February 15, 2010, 11:45 AM | #
That’s the wrong question. As much as ideal communication at all times might be a nice thing, human nature is such that the use of buzz words and communicative manipulation in general is necessary if your ideas are to compete with the opposition. You’ve internalised liberalism, which is why you don’t notice that words like ‘racism’ and ‘race-hate’ are buzz words that are regularly used to express power and manipulate people when communicative rationality would dictate the use of more precise and/or value-neutral language. 65
Posted by D Allen on February 15, 2010, 11:48 AM | #
Take Richard Lewontin, a Marxist Jew. He published a paper in 1972 arguing that race is an invalid taxonomic construct since there is ‘more variation within populations than between them’. This was effectively refuted in 2003 by someone called Edwards, using simple logic that does not rely on any new science that emerged in this 30-year interval, and Lewontin’s idea has been made even more ridiculous by Henry Harpending in the appendix to this article http://www.mankindquarterly.org/samples/SalterMQXLVIII-3.pdf So we see that it is quite possible for ideologically-motivated mistruths and misleading half-truths to circulate as successful ‘science’ - in this case feeding a popular meme that has harmed native Europeans by damaging their sense of ethnic identity, and which continues to do so despite its having been put to rest scientifically several years ago.
The Jews are allowed to have an ethnostate, run anti-miscegenation squads, and persecute Palestinian civilians using high-tech weaponry funded by the US. Meanwhile, they spend their time lecturing all kinds of Europeans about the Holocaust (despite the fact that there is supposed to be no real connection between ethnic Germans and other Europeans, since race is a social construct) and telling us that we should wipe ourselves out and give up our ethnic states, to make way for a mixed humanity that is planned for only European-derived countries. Must they not have a lot of influence on our communication systems and power structures? 66
Posted by danielj on February 15, 2010, 01:55 PM | # Regarding communication: The purpose of communication is not always propositional and concerned with communicating “facts” or truth. Sometimes the purpose of communication is expressing imperatives, commands, displeasure, posing questions, etc. Some forms of communication fall outside the boundary of rationality or are supra-rational or intentionally irrational. Magic words are sometimes simply a form of rhetoric and sometimes they are parts of enthymemes. They are very useful in power struggles. 67
Posted by DRS on February 15, 2010, 02:15 PM | #
I would have thought a very important factor in assessing carrying capacity is a nations ability to feed it’s population, not just how many people you can crowd into slums. Here’s a quote from the UK economy section of the CIA World Fact Book:
So we have to import fourty percent of our food needs and we cannot fulfil our energy needs with our own resources? Sounds like we’ve outstripped carrying capacity to me. On a side note. Whats all this about the labour death tax? I though all these immigrants were going to pay for our pensions and boost the economy? 68
Posted by Dasein on February 15, 2010, 02:23 PM | # Lewontin’s measure (Gst) is basically the subtraction of within-group heterozygosity from total population heterozygosity. So long as within-group heterozygosity (variability) is relatively high, there is only relatively little additional variation that can come from including the total population. For example, if within-group heterozygosity (variability) is .85 (with 1 being maximum), there can only be 15% additional variability that comes from including all groups. By Lewontin’s logic, species is also an invalid taxonomic construct. Lewontin’s argument was accepted (and eventually popularized) without comprehension by social scientists whose political agenda it served. It should also be noted that the measure is based on a locus by locus comparison, and does not consider allelic correlation structure. It would be like taking the average quality difference between the individual components (e.g. pistons) of a Porsche and a Lada to measure the difference between the two. It’s only in higher order aggregation (e.g. motor) that the difference becomes more meaningful. These higher-order measures are still being worked on by population geneticists and there is no consensus like there is for using Gst and Fst (however misleading it may be to do so in some circumstances). 69
Posted by Dasein on February 15, 2010, 03:08 PM | #
E.O. Wilson on Jewish Marxist scientists Lewontin and Gould:
70
Posted by BGD on February 15, 2010, 03:30 PM | # I take it the discourtesy of a lack of an answer to why my non-contentious comment was deleted must mean that yes, the creeping petty mindedness experienced on some forums and comment sites has come to roost here. What starts out with a surrogate policy to delete high-level flaming and rudeness morphs into some whimsical finger hovering over the delete button. The vice of the impotent. C’est la vie. 71
Posted by Dan Dare on February 15, 2010, 03:47 PM | # I for one would be dismayed if what BGD is asserting has really happened. GW is renowned for having a light hand on the tiller, and I certainly did not delete anything. BGD is a sensible and valued commentator so I hope that whatever has happened was the result of a mistake or accident, or a misunderstanding. An explanation would certainly be in order. 72
Posted by Dan Dare on February 15, 2010, 04:22 PM | #
This is broadly correct, although the percentage varies widely by category. According to Defra statistics the UK is broadly self-sufficient in meat, dairy and cereals but imports over half of its vegetables and over 90% of its fruit. There is a considerable debate going on at the moment in agricultural and government circles about future UK food security which, for a country so heavily dependent upon imports, has to be considered in the global context. We saw what happened in 2008 when falling food stocks had a dramatic effect upon food commodity pricing, and we should expect further such disruptions in the future. In the meantime the FAO has announced that a 70% rise in global food production will be necessary to feed the growing population in the third world as well to meet the expectations of the population in ‘transition countries’ like China. This comes at a time when the so-called ‘Green Revolution’ is faltering and agricultural yields are not increasing as they in the 1960s through the 1980s. Modern agriculture is also highly energy-intensive not just because it is mechanised but because artificial fertilisers are produced from petrochemical feedstocks. Finally, unless we are prepared to sacrifice the rainforests, there is little potential to expand the stock of productive agricultural land, especially in areas close to where the increase in demand will take place. All of the foregoing points towards increasing demand for the available agricultural output, inevitably leading to price inflation and shortages. This would not seem to be a time to be overly sanguine about population levels in the UK, nor to dismiss concerns about its real carrying capacity. 73
Posted by Guessedworker on February 15, 2010, 04:45 PM | # BGD, I don’t know to what comment you are referring. There is no, repeat no, censorship at this blog ... always providing civility prevails. It is possible, however, that I or someone else deleted your comment while house-cleaning. Over the last few weeks we’ve been getting more and more visitations from spam robots, and it is house practise to clear this stuff out of the way so readers are not encumbered with it. It’s possible that the wrong box in the comment aggregator was ticked and your comment got blasted. In which event I offer my apologies. It is certainly not house policy to drive away regular readers - or anybody else, come to that. Robots, on the other hand ... 74
Posted by Al Ross on February 15, 2010, 05:44 PM | # Britain is in urgent need of a written Constitution. Fortunately, there is a template for us in the form of the Malaysian Constitution, a document authored at the time of Independence by the eminent Scottish judge, Lord Reid. In this sensible document the majority indigenous Malay race is guaranteed political control of the nation in perpetuity and any affirmative action must be in favour of the majority. I don’t suppose anyone knows why this ‘Ozy’ character wishes to import the Third World’s anthropoid detritus into UK to supplant our children and grandchildren. A Jew methinks. 75
Posted by Dasein on February 15, 2010, 06:10 PM | # The following led me to believe he’s Macedonian:
But Dan has referred to him as Croatian. AFAIK, he has not been more specific. He’s not much of a guest, in any case. 76
Posted by Al Ross on February 15, 2010, 06:49 PM | # Perhaps you are correct, Dasein. The ‘Ozy’ poster is perhaps a Macedonian gypsy (of which there are considerable numbers) and, doubtless, justly despises the British for being so stupid as to admit his family into their country. 77
Posted by PW on February 16, 2010, 02:14 AM | #
“UK population must fall to 30m, says Porritt” - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5950442.ece - “Muslim population [in the UK] ‘rising 10 times faster than rest of society’” - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5621482.ece 78
Posted by BGD on February 16, 2010, 05:09 AM | #
OK thanks for clarifying. I thought it odd that I had disappeared a couple of hours after posting and it not being a confrontational piece. Will rewrite / post. 79
Posted by BGD on February 16, 2010, 05:21 AM | # OZK a couple of clarifications if I may. Is immigration a concern for the British public? British Social Attitudes Information System (here) Section: ETHNIC ORIGIN, RACE RELATIONS AND IMMIGRATION / Views about immigrants / Controls on immigration / Whether should be increased or reduced (Years 1995, 2003) 2003 Results (FYI There is also the 2010 survey that goes into more detail on immigration and nationalism and was released in January. It is £ subscription only at present.) Reduced a little - 22.81% Total who want immigration decreased in 2003 survey: 71.4%. This is a reasonably steady measure - from what I understand - every time the question has been asked. So to suggest that immigration fails with the British public is the opposite of the truth. There are therefore other factors that govern why the public vote the way they do. As I suggested above these include: 1) The British system is a two horse race. 2) The two main parties have tried to shadow each other on immigration. i.e while Howard struck a tough pose and was criticised by Labour they had a history themselves of promoting tighter immigration close to election periods. 3) There are more paramount short term concerns of tax and spend, welfare state etc Has immigration been a factor in British general elections? I will leave you with the concluding comments from Powell and After: Immigration, Race and Voting in Britain 1970-1979, Robert Ford, Nuffield College, University of Oxford (2006) Download the Word Document here.
Firstly, coloured immigration, and the passionate opposition it aroused in large parts of the British public, was a significant factor in at least three of the four general elections held in the 1970s. The issue voting observed in the 1970 election by Butler and Stokes (1971) and Studlar (1977) continued throughout the decade. Immigration was an issue which aroused unusually strong and unanimous public opposition throughout this period, which made it a potent electoral resource for those politicians willing and able to exploit it. Second, the issue consistently favoured the Conservatives throughout the decade, as they were perceived by the majority of the public to be the party more likely to stop immigration. Third, this perception was less the product of actual party policy activity than perceptions largely crafted by political rhetoric. In 1970, it was Labour who had the stronger track record on immigration restriction, having passed highly controversial legislation on the subject two years previously. Nevertheless, it was Enoch Powell’s strident rhetoric which won over the public, and their mistaken perception that his views were representative of the Conservative party that won Heath and his colleagues their votes. Four years later, it was the Conservatives who could point to their governing record, having in 1971 passed legislation on immigration so restrictive it could in theory prevent all coloured immigration save for relatives of those migrants who had already arrived. Yet at this election, their chief asset on immigration had turned against them, and it was Powell’s strident attacks on their record that the public heard, not the record itself. The elections of 1974 were so close that if the party had managed to maintain its strong image on immigration it would have won another majority. This was clearly not lost on Margaret Thatcher, who pushed for further legislative reforms, but was also well aware of the power of words. It was here statements on World in Action that were noticed and remembered, not the statements in the Conservative manifesto. Evidence from the British Social Attitudes surveys suggests public opinion continued to be strongly opposed to further immigration, and while the Conservatives were able to achieve large reductions in coloured immigration these did not come close to the zero immigration rate desired by the majority of voters (1980s), let alone the mass repatriations preferred by 20% or more in the 1970s. The parties also remained strongly differentiated on this issue – Labour, which had won over most of the ethnic minority vote simply by not being the party of Powell, condemned the Conservatives’ immigration policy as racist and held high profile debates over ethnic minority representation. The Conservatives did little to highlight the issue, but then they didn’t need to – their track record, and Labour’s condemnations of it, spoke for itself. The possible continuing relationships between race, immigration and vote are one important area where further research is needed. At the time of writing (September 2006), immigration, in particular asylum seekers is once again near the top of the political agenda. Could it once again shift votes? The issue is again fulfilling most of the criteria necessary for issue voting. It is highly salient – 24% of voters in the 2005 British Electoral Study considered it the most important issue facing the nation. Views were once again skewed in a familiar direction – strong majorities of voters want immigration reduced and asylum reformed. It was once again an issue where the public perceived a strong differentiation between the parties, with the Conservatives viewed as the party to deliver reductions and restrictions. Nevertheless, there were important differences with the 1970s. Labour have been aware of their vulnerability on immigration, and have pursued a series of draconian reforms to the asylum system since 2001. The Labour government has missed no opportunity since to trumpet the reductions in asylum applications it claims its reforms have delivered. The Conservatives have also chosen not to pursue the immigration issue rhetorically as strongly as they did in the 1970s. In the 2005 campaign, Michael Howard gave no television interviews warning of bloody foaming rivers or swamped cultures. His critique of the government focused on anodyne facts and figures, while his credibility on asylum reform was also doubtless compromised by his own status as the son of Jewish refugees. Fearful of being portrayed as racist, Howard took pains to emphasise the virtues of ‘legitimate’ immigrants and of multicultural Britain. It is unlikely this message would resonate with the kind of voters most worried about immigration. Instead it was Blair who held the rhetorical upper hand, delivering a devastating critique of the Conservatives’ immigration proposals at Dover late in the election campaign. While this may have been enough to neutralize the issue in 2005, its salience has continued to rise since, with over 30% of the public naming it as the most important political problem in 2006 (MORI). Immigration is once again an issue with “high potential” (Butler and Stokes, 1971), and the evidence from the 1970s suggests it should be one British political scientists monitor closely. 80
Posted by John on February 16, 2010, 08:34 AM | # A good “protection spell” to cast when the magic word “negro” is countered by the magic phrase “race hate”: The US census has negro as one of its racial categories. The black’s only US scholarship organization (which would be “racist” if it were aimed at whites) also uses the word. 81
Posted by Armor on February 16, 2010, 09:36 AM | # @BGD: The problem is that both DD and GW have opened a thread about OZY to confuse you. 82
Posted by BGD on February 16, 2010, 10:37 AM | #
Ah. Oh dear I will have to prostrate myself in apology. That’s teach me to pay more attention rather than dipping in and out. Apologies. 83
Posted by Silver on February 16, 2010, 11:10 AM | #
Oh, well now, that explains it all. You can forget all about his supposed principled “liberalism” or “anti-racism” then. He lives in Britain but he’s not British; knows he’s not British; knows he doesn’t really belong in Britain; knows that the turd world tsunami is wrecking havoc in Britain; he knows all that, but he can’t allow himself to acknowledge any of it because that would be an impediment to his ongoing extraction of material benefits he enjoys from living around the British. Nothing the least bit surprising in any of this at all—rather, a sense of deja vu: Silver ‘07 all over again. Can’t blame him for the intransigence, though; the typical WN wanker is of no help at all when it comes to seeing the light, regardless of how sophisticated they think they sound. Take Al Ross for instance: why, one could fairly say the catholicity of his misanthropy almost forces admiration.
D Allen,
That’s interesting. I wonder why I haven’t heard more of this slam dunk comeback. Many other quality responses by you on this thread, Mr. Allen. Are we acquainted? Allen Akbar! 84
Posted by Dasein on February 16, 2010, 11:16 AM | # The German equivalent to Negro is Neger, whose use has likewise become taboo (at least among the younger generation). In 1994, Duden (a publisher of dictionaries, which for most of the 20th century was the official standard for German orthography) had the following definition for Neger (with my translation):
In 1999, the definition had become:
Notice that there is now no reference to race. As D Allen pointed out, the goal is to reinforce the ‘race = skin colour’ meme, which is why they would rather the word just disappear. As their next update on the word, in 2004, Duden recommended that it no longer be used. See how this works, Ozy? Just this year, a young German man was sentenced to 40 days in jail for calling a Cameroonian Negro ‘Neger’. Ozy, would you support jail sentences for the use of ‘Negro’? Like danielj said, language is very important in power struggles. The WN who best understands this, IMO, is Alex Linder. 85
Posted by danielj on February 16, 2010, 01:17 PM | # Like danielj said, language is very important in power struggles. The WN who best understands this, IMO, is Alex Linder. Indeed, post-Witt and post-Russell, many philosophers have turned to language as a metaphysical Philosopher’s Stone. Many are considering that within it is the the key that will open the lock and move forward the perennially unfruitful, 2,500 year old discussion we’ve been having here in the West. We all know instinctively that words are weapons and that we should arm ourselves accordingly. 86
Posted by Dan Dare on February 16, 2010, 02:09 PM | #
The reason for the second thread was not to confuse, but rather to separate discussion on what OZK called his “position both at the practical and fundamental level” from the discussion he has been pusuing primarily with GW about “ideas”. The latter seemed to revolve principally around the question as to whether or not an ethnocentric worldview can be based on any anything other than articles of faith, and so would seem to be of a more philosophical character than the more mundane matters listed in the first post here. 87
Posted by D Allen on February 16, 2010, 05:59 PM | # Silver, yes we are acquainted by way of discussing EGI and some other things on your accidental dissent (which I admire). You haven’t heard of that Harpending derivation before because until recently it cost about £20 to view the article, which is asking a bit much of those who are not critically interested in Frank Salter’s work. 88
Posted by Dasein on February 16, 2010, 06:14 PM | # From the abstract:
The money figure: [IMG]http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx249/Aletheia14/racebias.png[/IMG] Their conclusion:
It’s similar to the papers from Project Implicit that say they hope their work showing implicit racial bias will help in understanding the causes, in order to overcome the problems of ‘racism’. We’re in for some serious brainwashing if they want to make multiracialism work. 89
Posted by Dan Dare on February 16, 2010, 06:37 PM | # The way to escape from this perpetual cycle of insidious racism would seem to be compulsory contraception for all white females from the onset of puberty. Failing that, it will have to be hysterectomies all round. 90
Posted by Armor on February 16, 2010, 08:57 PM | # Conclusion of interesting paper: “the evolved psychological architecture underlying the persistent modern problem of race bias” It is interesting to speculate that maybe a hard-wired mechanism makes women unconsciously more wary of danger on days when rape is most likely to result in pregnancy. But I don’t understand how their study really suggests that preference for one’s own race is hard-wired. 91
Posted by More on Jobling on February 16, 2010, 11:09 PM | # Ian Jobling’s objection regarding ethnic genetic interests seems to come down to the issue of free riders. In the comments Jobling praises these comments as a slam-dunk refutation of Salterism and racialism:
Also in the comments Jobling says he thinks white nationalists are “insane” and “out of their minds,” while everyone else is “perfectly sane.” Quite strange coming from someone who ran a site called “The Inverted World.” Ian Jobling can scarcely be called a white racialist. He is pro-white not because he cares about the preservation of white people, but because of racial differences in intelligence and morality and because whites have a propensity toward liberal democratic values. He thinks Rawlsian liberalism is the philosophy we need. Jobling would have no objection, or at least it is difficult to see why he would object, to gnxp-style Asian supremacism. 92
Posted by Al Ross on February 17, 2010, 12:25 AM | # Silver, WN wankers indeed. Come, come, there’s a good Dago. 93
Posted by Dan Dare on February 17, 2010, 01:39 AM | # Dasein’s mention of the N-word brought the following short video to mind. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2103841859203199562# Schwarzfahrer has a double meaning - literally a black rider, but also fare dodger. It’s rare to come across such a short piece with so many messages packed in; even the unreliability of English motorcycles gets a mention! All hail Lucas, Prince of Darkness! 94
Posted by Dasein on February 19, 2010, 04:35 PM | # Dan, have you seen this film? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP9SLVz3ZEo It’s about a Cameroonian in Stuttgart who killed 2 police officers with a bayonet (yes, a bayonet) back in 1989. After getting into an argument with the conductor about his tram ticket, he head-butted him and fled the scene. A few hours later he was tracked down by police, to whom he refused to show his papers. There was a standoff, and he pulled a bayonet out of a Bild Zeitung he was holding and started attacking (one of them he stabbed in the heart). Here’s the most detailed description I could find of the attack (in German): http://www.ez-online.de/lokal/esslingen/esslingen/Artikel455028.cfm?service=rss Here are some reviews, quite sickening, of the film: http://www.albany.edu/writers-inst/webpages4/filmnotes/fnf03n7.html http://www.moonrisemovies.com/movie.asp?uid=912 http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9804EEDD1339F934A35752C1A9679C8B63 95
Posted by Dasein on April 19, 2010, 06:14 PM | # Ozy’s made it to the CiF big time: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/15/madedonia-being-macedonian
I’d like to think that last sentence is GW’s influence, but then he should have said ‘remain who they are’. Of course he wasn’t going to say ‘not be race-replaced’ 96
Posted by Dan Dare on April 19, 2010, 07:11 PM | # Well spotted Dasein, and kudos also for being the first to out him as a Macedonian. Reading the piece though does make one wish that there were some way to ensure that prospective migrants park their tribal animosities and their ancient grudges and grievances at the door on the way in. 98
Posted by Captainchaos on April 19, 2010, 09:56 PM | # Ozy, the guy who thinks DNA tests reflect “deeply ingrained cultural attitudes,” gets to write for the Guardian? No wonder they call it fish wrap. And in the end it turns out that Ozy’s hangup about race is the same as Silver’s (another “Balkanoid”), he isn’t Nordic so so one should get to be Nordic. No wonder the Aussies and the English detest “wogs.” 99
Posted by Wandrin on April 19, 2010, 11:35 PM | #
I can see their point of view - not feeling quite part of the club after the years of Turkish rule. Maybe one day they can be happily re-aryanized with genetics. 100
Posted by Dasein on April 20, 2010, 04:02 AM | # GW, I usually look over the Guardian site once per day, and occasionally I’ve taken a look to see what our old ‘friend’ is writing. This piece of his has been up over a month. Not sure if he’ll be writing more in the future; it looks like he got this one commissioned by contacting CiF via http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/series/you-tell-us Have. you ever tried recommending they publish something from you? They would need new hard drives to keep up with the comment deluge such would elicit. Doubt they’d do it, though. It would look especially bad if they started deleting comments from the author. That ‘you tell us’ thread would be a good place to call them out, though. Let them and their commentariat know they can’t handle the truth, see how they take it (at least until they delete your challenge). 101
Posted by Dasein on April 20, 2010, 04:05 AM | # Dan, thanks. When he said he was from a Balkan country that was riven by ethnic tension, but had escaped war, Macedonia seemed like the best fit. 102
Posted by Dasein on April 20, 2010, 04:11 AM | # Armor, in the paper the authors also mention that this may the byproduct of a form of behaviour that did not evolve because of racial interactions. I seem to remember MacDonald writing that he had a personal communication with Harpending saying that there could have been enough contact between races in our evolutionary past to result in evolved behavioural responses, but I don’t think this has much support yet in the scientific literature. 103
Posted by Dasein on April 20, 2010, 04:29 AM | # As regards Jobling’s criticism of Salter, from what I remember, it mostly boiled down to ethnic-based altruism not being evolutionarily stable. That is, unless those who were risking reproductive success (e.g. suicide bombers) were also passing on more of their genes, free-riders would outbreed them. It doesn’t impact Salter’s thesis, though. It is still in our genetic interest to prevent our dispossession, even if the behaviour that would prevent such dispossession is not evolved (at least for that purpose) and can’t be adaptive in terms of increasing the proportion of alleles that predispose one to such behaviour. And, to be honest, I would not want that. Part of the reason Whites create superior civilizations is that they are not hyper-ethnocentric and have a sense of fairness. I don’t want Whites to become more like Jews. It’s the job of the elites (moral, intellectual, political) to prevent that behaviour which is good in Whites from becoming maladaptive, like it is now. And as for whether or not ethnocentric behaviour can be adaptive, this would be a simple matter to implement by societal elites. Elites get to determine what behaviour is adaptive, which is why ours is currently an era of dysgenesis. 104
Posted by Lurker on April 20, 2010, 04:33 AM | # I dont know that the English & Aussies “detest” wogs, thats what Silver wants to promote. Isnt that wops anyway? As for Silver, we don’t what he is, he seems to be working through an alphabetical list of all ethnicities. 105
Posted by Dasein on April 20, 2010, 08:01 AM | #
I think immigrants who agitate against the ethnic interests of the native population (as Ozy does) should be threatened with deportation. 106
Posted by Dasein on April 20, 2010, 08:27 AM | # Interesting series of articles by Peter Frost: http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2010/04/population-replacement-in-algeria.html http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2010/03/walking-to-promised-land.html http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2010/03/china-and-interesting-times-part-iii.html http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2010/03/china-and-interesting-times-part-ii.html Instead of race-replacement he uses ‘population replacement.’ What he’s describing is basically another Out of (sub-Saharan) Africa migration wave. 107
Posted by Fred Scrooby on April 20, 2010, 09:48 AM | # That is indeed an extremely interesting series of log entries by Peter Frost which Dasein has linked above. For one thing (and please correct me) Frost is much more of an establishment type than any of us (no he’s not “an establishment type” but he is “much more of one” than any of us), yet here he is, here is this more establishment type of a guy, admitting that race-replacement of Euros is what’s going on, just casually coming out with this bombshell piece of news, though as Dasein points out he refuses to use the term race, so calls it population replacement. Which is odd because Frost is a smart biologist who knows perfectly there are races and knows which ones there are, so he’s being PC here. (The king of PC of course, among Frost-type or Dienekes-type bloggers, is John Hawkes — you’ll never see so much as an un-PC comma, semicolon, hyphen, or question mark in Hawkes’ stuff.) Others who do this include I believe FJ, possibly Paul Belien, possibly Takuan, possibly Snouck, that neocon-type crowd in other words. What distinguishes them from the Jews who run neocondom is they talk about it with at least mild alarm as replacement, while the Jews refer to it as enrichment and talk about it with immense satisfaction. (Of course they do: they’re getting rid of their ancient tribal enemy, namely us. Wake up please, Peter Frost, FJ, and all others still in a coma!) Frost takes the position that what’s happening is purely a Camp of the Saints scenario, occurring all by itself (in other words the Jews could have spared themselves the huge expenditure of time, energy, and money they poured into prying the borders open with the 1965 bill and standing guard ever since to keep anyone from closing them again — so you’re looking at one of the rarissimo instances where Jews needlessly waste huge amounts of their money, money they could have saved because the whole thing was going to happen anyway all by itself without the Jews’ or anyone else’s help — all according to Frost that is ..... But wait, if it’s happening to China Frost must be right and by implication the Jews are blameless for it over here — Uhhh no, wrong, but that’s an additional discussion I don’t have time for just at the moment, am rushing to get this typed then in the shower and out the door). Read the comments threads on these entries of Frost’s — they’re informative. Also, in them Frost somewhat expands and clarifies his positions on this phenomenon. And the readers’ comments are often interesting — for example one of them divulges that the Jews have wrung an extra $50 M out of DC (out of US taxpayer hides in other words) to go as additional aid to Egypt to police Israel’s border with Egypt and keep Negroes from Somalia from crossing into Israel, and, using this additional American money, the Egyptians have been shooting and killing the Somali Negroes who are headed for Israel — all of this for Israel, to help keep it Negro-free — paid for by U.S. taxpayers at the finaigling of the Jews, the same Jews who forbid those same U.S. taxpayers to keep the same sort of immigrants out of their own country, the U.S., that they don’t want going into Israel. Just prior to the first articles in his little series acknowledging race-replacement, the first being a pair on the process taking place in China, Frost had a little preliminary discussion of the fact that races do exist and the fact that Lewontin’s fallacy is indeed a fallacy. Everyone knows Jewontin Lewonitin has been debunked, so that itself was curious — why did Frost devote an entry or two to pointing that out at this late date? He apparently wanted to emphasize it in preparation for the discussion that was to follow. Frost seems to say the Camp of the Saints race-replacement “population-replacement” process is unstoppable BUT he also seems to be uneasy about it and looking for ways to thwart it. 108
Posted by Lurker on April 21, 2010, 05:03 AM | # Talking of Silver, he’s popped up at Steve Sailer’s. Current location: Australia. Current reported ethnicity: Unknown. Current reported nationality: Unknown. Next entry: Just a silly German ditty Previous entry: Heidegger and the Nazis, the concrete and the spirit |
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Existential IssuesWhite Genocide ProjectOf note
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In any case, his essay provides insight into why his thinking on race is so confused.
Posted by Heads up on the subject of EGI on February 14, 2010, 04:46 AM | #
Here is Ian Jobling’s latest article: The Irrelevance of Ethnic Genetic Interests
Jobling says Frank Salter is completely wrong and “ethnic genetic interests are irrelevant.”