The health consequences of race mixing

The health consequences of race mixing among living organisms could be neutral, beneficial or harmful.  This issue has been difficult to address in humans, but data from random, population-based studies have started coming in, and here we consider the first such dataset.

The data in question come from J. Richard Udry’s National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which sampled a random, nationally representative school-based sample of U.S. adolescents in grades 7 through 12, during 1994-1995. [1]

Paper-based questionnaires were completed by 83,135 adolescents; a random sub-sample of these individuals plus some individuals in the school roster that had not completed the paper-based questionnaire, totaling 18,924 adolescents, were interviewed at home.  The data are reported for the home-interviewed sample. 

Racial classifications are based on self-report; the participants were allowed to pick multiple racial categories to describe themselves.  Table 1 shows participant characteristics.  The participants were asked if they were Hispanic/Latino, but this was not considered to be a racial category.  86% of those who only chose “other” race also described themselves as Hispanic, and 46% of those who described themselves as Hispanic only chose “other” race.  72% of those identifying as American Indian also picked another racial category, usually white. 

The racial composition of the respondents in the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health conducted by J. Richard Udry.

The data are presented in terms of odds ratios and statistical significance, both of which are briefly explained in the next paragraph, which knowledgeable individuals can skip.

The odds ratio (OR) is the number of times something is more prevalent in one group compared to another.  Thus, OR = 2.0 means a two-fold greater prevalence, OR = 1.3 means a 1.3-fold greater prevalence, OR = 1.0 means no difference, OR = 0.5 means half as prevalent, and so on.  A statistically significant difference is a difference that most likely represents a genuine difference between the groups compared rather than a difference due to chance factors alone.  If the probability that the difference obtained is due to chance is less than 5%, then the difference is typically considered statistically significant, which is denoted as p < 0.05; similarly, if the probability that the difference obtained is due to chance is less than 1%, then this is designated as p < 0.01. All statistically significant differences in Tables 2-4 (p < 0.05) are marked by an asterisk. On the other hand, due to inadequate sample size, genuine differences may not reach statistical significance in a study, although trends toward differences may be clear.

Table 2 shows that mixed-race individuals had an across-the-board higher incidence of health and behavior problems; the specific health problems addressed were assessed in terms of whether they occurred frequently or every day of the previous month.

Health and behavior comparisons between mixed-race individuals and single-race individuals in the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health conducted by J. Richard Udry.

Given the overall picture in Table 2, sample size limitations, and the fact that the sample is random and representative, all values in Table 2 that are clearly greater than 1.00 but not statistically significant can be considered as genuinely reflecting increased likelihood of health/behavior problems among mixed-race adolescents, and this also applies to Table 3. 

Now, it may be that adverse outcomes vary by race combinations.  To examine this issue, Table 3 compares various mixed-race combos with their single-race counterparts on health/behavior issues.  The general pattern seen in Table 2 is also seen in Table 3, i.e., irrespective of which races are combined, there is an overall increase in health/behavior problems among mixed-race adolescents. 

Health and behavior comparisons between specific mixed-race combos and their single-race counterparts in the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health conducted by J. Richard Udry.

Let us address one confound in interpreting the data in Tables 2 and 3.  It is commonly observed that a disproportionate number of white women who end up with black men are obese.  Obese women tend to have elevated testosterone levels. [2, 3]  Some portion of testosterone is converted to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which amplifies the effect of testosterone at certain targets. [4]  DHT is also one of the culprits in the genesis of acne. [5]  Therefore, a higher incidence of, say, acne in black/white-mixed offspring with a white mother could simply reflect inheritance of the genetics of elevated androgens from the obese white mother rather than an effect of race mixing. 

The point above needs to be considered in a more general scenario.  When the races occupying the same geographic region differ in status, as in present-day Western societies, members of the high-status race who marry those of a lower-status race tend to have low status within their group.  There are, of course, many examples to the contrary: Carmen Electra (mostly white) with Dennis Rodman (black), Heidi Klum (white) with Seal (black), and David Bowie (white) with Iman (Somali), among others.  However, the aforementioned trend is clear, which raises the possibility that the negative correlates of race mixing are largely related to the unhealthiness of one or both parents rather than the deleterious effects of race mixing.  This potential confound can be addressed by statistically controlling for demographic variables. 

The authors controlled for age, sex, verbal IQ, grade point average, family structure (living with one or both parents), and family education; education can act as a proxy for socioeconomic status, and given an inverse relation between socioeconomic status and obesity in white women, [6] education can also act as a proxy for obesity in the white mothers of the mixed-race adolescents.  Controlling for all these factors left the general picture seen in Tables 2 and 3 unchanged; some statistically significant odds ratios lost statistical significance, but the ones greater than 1.00 can still be considered significant for the reasons addressed above, and there were very few instances of greater-than-1.00 odds ratios diminishing to less than 1.00.  Therefore, one can conclude that the negative health/behavior consequences of race mixing are related to race mixing per se rather than the variables controlled for. 
 
The authors mention that the most common explanation of their find, which has also been reported by others using non-random samples, is that stress associated with identity conflict or struggle with identity formation is the culprit, but they also note that there is no proof in this regard. [1]  Indeed, it is difficult to believe that struggle with identity formation is responsible for an across-the-board increase in health/behavior problems in mixed-race adolescents.  How does struggle with identity formation lead to a higher incidence of skin problems?   

An across-the-board increase in health problems should be evaluated in light of the basic architecture of physiological control, wherein the brain and the autonomic nervous system (ANS) are especially relevant.  As is seen in the figure below, the ANS is involved in the autonomic (involuntary; automatic) regulation of organs, and its abnormalities could easily be behind Udry’s data.

The innervations of the Autonomic Nervous System.

ANS abnormalities are implicated in behavior problems such as excessive aggression, [7-11] atopy (a group of diseases such as asthma, skin problems such as eczema and psoriasis, allergies, runny nose, sinusitis, migraine), [12-16] headaches, [17-22] and a variety of health problems (see any textbook of medical physiology). Further, damaging some portions of the brain in rats increases the likelihood of cocaine or stimulant dependence, [23, 24] and something similar undoubtedly applies to humans, too.  Besides, a number of brain abnormalities are common to both depression and drug dependence, [25] and substance use is more prevalent among mentally ill individuals. [26]

Therefore, to the extent that race mixing may increase the likelihood of non-optimal genetic correlation structures, it may be expected to adversely affect organism-level physiological control, which may very well account for Udry’s data. 

Alternatively, since part of the ANS deals with stressors, chronic social stressors could themselves cause a number of health problems.  In this regard, the data in Tables 2 and 3 do not vary as a function of whether the adolescent is living with one or two parents or as a function of family education, which can act as a proxy for socioeconomic status.  Being teased/ostracized for being mixed race also requires consideration, but it cannot be argued that during the time period of the childhood years of the Americans examined, a substantial number of the mixed-race children would have experienced ostracism/discrimination due to being mixed race, especially since a number of them would have grown up in large metropolitan areas, which are known to be more diverse and tolerant.  Moreover, the general preference in the African-American community is to prefer African-Americans with lighter skin, [27, 28] and lighter-skinned African-Americans also tend to have higher IQs than their darker counterparts (Table 4, [29]), which should reduce academic stress.  In other words, black/white-mixed individuals, who would typically be assigned and raised as African-Americans, are not necessarily really worse off compared to their darker counterparts with respect to being ostracized/marginalized.  Additionally, given white preference for Caucasian features and to the extent that Asian-Americans are envious of some of the facial features of whites, Asian/white-mixed individuals are less apt to be teased for their facial features than the less mixed Asians-Americans.  And once again, there is no proof that struggle with identity formation explains Udry’s data.  Also, the typical mixed-race adolescent with a white parent should have no doubts as to whether he is white; he wouldn’t look anything like a white person.  Further, the data in Tables 2 and 3 do not vary as a function of age, which is relevant because the mixed-race individuals should have resolved their racial identity by their late teens. 

On the other hand, there exist several examples in the animal literature where matings between more genetically distant individuals within the same species/different races result in offspring that are less healthy than the parents, on average, [30-37]  and this cannot be blamed upon struggle with identity formation.  There also exist examples of hybrid vigor, but nothing remotely close to hybrid vigor is seen in Udry’s data. 

Consider also the fact that the genetic correlation structures manifesting as different races are so distinct that when a computer was asked to classify DNA data (326 microsatellite markers) from 3,636 individuals self-identifying as either white, East Asian, African-American, or Hispanic, into clusters, without being told which DNA sample came from which racial group, the computer clustered the DNA data into 4 groups, classifying all but 5 individuals into the correct self-identified racial group. [38]

Therefore, a parsimonious explanation of the across-the-board negative health correlates of race mixing in Udry’s data is that race mixing involving notably different races such as human races, by increasing the likelihood of non-optimal genetic correlation structures, increases the likelihood of deleterious effects. 

Udry’s data are compatible with the likelihood of race mixing improving one or more parental traits in some mixed-race offspring, who may be better off than both parents on multiple counts, provided that a greater number of mixed-race offspring are overall worse off than both parents.  The former possibility is surely not implausible given that the tremendous racial and species diversity out there implies that nature does not rule out equally-well functioning/better functioning novel genetic correlation structures, which could be brought about by race mixing, though the chances of improvement would typically be slim if more distant races are involved.

Further, those identifying as mixed-race in this study would generally have greater genetic admixture than those identifying as single-race.  It is seen in Table 2 that those identifying as mixed race have worse health than even populations known to be highly admixed (American black, Native American, Hispanic).  This could be accounted for if one assumes that first-generation hybrids who have the worst health/behavior problems would disproportionately not be very successful in reproducing, i.e., the healthier mixed offspring could, within a few generations, set up a mixed-race population that is healthier, on average, compared to the first-generation hybrids, but for this mixed-race population to approach or exceed the overall health of the original single-race populations, it would take many generations of [naturally] weeding out the unhealthy and settling toward a novel population-typical genetic correlation structure that corresponds to good health (more on this and on hybrid vigor in a subsequent post). 

To conclude, it is irresponsible for any scientific organization to pretend that race mixing has no adverse health effects and it is obviously inappropriate to portray race mixing as desirable or virtuous.

Extra stuff (for those interested in additional details):

Table 4 compares mixed-race adolescents with their single-race counterparts on several measures.  The GPA (grade point average) and the PVT (picture vocabulary test) categories feature the percentage of individuals in the 75th percentile of the entire sample. 

GPA, IQ, and some demographic comparisons between mixed-race and single-race individuals in the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health conducted by J. Richard Udry.

Some of the responses to self-identified race differed between the school-based and home-based assessments (16% of entire sample).  Over 90% of the respondents self-identifying as white only, black only, or Asian only at school, self-identified as the same race at home; the changes involved adding/substituting “other” race.  Somewhat less than half the respondents picking multiple races at school picked the same categories at the home interview, and to the extent that those identifying as multiracial in school identified as single race at home, given the picture in Table 2, these individuals are likely making the single-race individuals look worse.  34% of those identifying as American Indian only at school identified as white only at home, and 77% of those identifying as white/American Indian at school identified as white only at home, but American Indians were a miniscule percentage of the study sample.  The inconsistent responses among the mixed-race adolescents may have resulted from context (school vs. home), assessment technique (paper-based vs. interview), ambiguity of question asking about race, or lack of a fully developed racial concept at the time of the assessment. [1]   

Literature cited:

1. Udry JR, Li RM, Hendrickson-Smith J: Health and behavior risks of adolescents with mixed-race identity. Am J Public Health 2003, 93:1865-1870.
2. Garaulet M, Perex-Llamas F, Fuente T, Zamora S, Tebar FJ: Anthropometric, computed tomography and fat cell data in an obese population: relationship with insulin, leptin, tumor necrosis factor-alpha, sex hormone-binding globulin and sex hormones. Eur J Endocrinol 2000, 143:657-666.
3. Sowers M, Beebe J, McConnell D, Randolph J, Jannausch M: Testosterone concentrations in women aged 25-50 years: associations with lifestyle, body composition, and ovarian status. Am J Epidemiol 2001, 153:256-264.
4. Dadras SS, Cai X, Abasolo I, Wang Z: Inhibition of 5alpha-reductase in rat prostate reveals differential regulation of androgen-response gene expression by testosterone and dihydrotestosterone. Gene Expr 2001, 9:183-194.
5. Thiboutot D: Acne: hormonal concepts and therapy. Clin Dermatol 2004, 22:419-428.
6. Stunkard AJ: Socioeconomic status and obesity. Ciba Found Symp 1996, 201:174-182; discussion 182-177, 188-193.
7. McBurnett K, Lahey BB, Rathouz PJ, Loeber R: Low salivary cortisol and persistent aggression in boys referred for disruptive behavior. Arch Gen Psychiatry 2000, 57:38-43.
8. van Goozen SH, Matthys W, Cohen-Kettenis PT, Thijssen JH, van Engeland H: Adrenal androgens and aggression in conduct disorder prepubertal boys and normal controls. Biol Psychiatry 1998, 43:156-158.
9. van Goozen SH, Matthys W, Cohen-Kettenis PT, Buitelaar JK, van Engeland H: Hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis and autonomic nervous system activity in disruptive children and matched controls. J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry 2000, 39:1438-1445.
10. van Goozen SH, van den Ban E, Matthys W, Cohen-Kettenis PT, Thijssen JH, van Engeland H: Increased adrenal androgen functioning in children with oppositional defiant disorder: a comparison with psychiatric and normal controls. J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry 2000, 39:1446-1451.
11. van Goozen SH, Matthys W, Cohen-Kettenis PT, Gispen-de Wied C, Wiegant VM, van Engeland H: Salivary cortisol and cardiovascular activity during stress in oppositional-defiant disorder boys and normal controls. Biol Psychiatry 1998, 43:531-539.
12. Darsow U, Ring J: Neuroimmune interactions in the skin. Curr Opin Allergy Clin Immunol 2001, 1:435-439.
13. Harrison LC, Callaghan J, Venter JC, Fraser CM, Kaliner ML: Atopy, autonomic function and beta-adrenergic receptor autoantibodies. Ciba Found Symp 1982:248-262.
14. Moretti M, Varga G: [Psychosomatic dermatologic symptoms]. Orv Hetil 2000, 141:169-172.
15. Nabarro G, van Sandwijk FJ, van Vloten WA: [Constitutional eczema in the light of the biopsychosocial illness model]. Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd 1994, 138:231-234.
16. Nelson HS: What is atopy? Sidestepping semantics. Postgrad Med 1984, 76:118-120, 123-119.
17. Edvinsson L: Aspects on the pathophysiology of migraine and cluster headache. Pharmacol Toxicol 2001, 89:65-73.
18. Harle DE, Evans BJ: The optometric correlates of migraine. Ophthalmic Physiol Opt 2004, 24:369-383.
19. May A: [Headache attacks with ipsilateral autonomic symptoms]. Schmerz 2004, 18:370-377.
20. Ostertag D, Strittmatter M, Schimrigk K: [Autonomic dysfunction in migraine und tension-type headache—pilot study]. Schmerz 1998, 12:25-29.
21. Sanchez del Rio M, Reuter U: Pathophysiology of headache. Curr Neurol Neurosci Rep 2003, 3:109-114.
22. Shechter A, Stewart WF, Silberstein SD, Lipton RB: Migraine and autonomic nervous system function: a population-based, case-control study. Neurology 2002, 58:422-427.
23. Deminiere JM, Piazza PV, Le Moal M, Simon H: Experimental approach to individual vulnerability to psychostimulant addiction. Neurosci Biobehav Rev 1989, 13:141-147.
24. Schenk S, Horger BA, Peltier R, Shelton K: Supersensitivity to the reinforcing effects of cocaine following 6-hydroxydopamine lesions to the medial prefrontal cortex in rats. Brain Res 1991, 543:227-235.
25. Markou A, Kosten TR, Koob GF: Neurobiological similarities in depression and drug dependence: a self-medication hypothesis. Neuropsychopharmacology 1998, 18:135-174.
26. Regier DA, Farmer ME, Rae DS, Locke BZ, Keith SJ, Judd LL, Goodwin FK: Comorbidity of mental disorders with alcohol and other drug abuse. Results from the Epidemiologic Catchment Area (ECA) Study. Jama 1990, 264:2511-2518.
27. Bond S, Cash TF: Black beauty: Skin color and body images among African-American college women. J Appl Soc Psychol 1992, 22:874-888.
28. Hall RE: Bias among African-Americans regarding skin color: implications for social work practice. Res Soc Work Practice 1992, 2:479-486.
29. Rushton JP, Jensen AR: Thirty years of research on race differences in cognitive ability. Psychol Public Policy Law 2005, 11:235-294.
30. Aspi J: Inbreeding and outbreeding depression in male courtship song characters in Drosophila montana. Heredity 2000, 84 (Pt 3):273-282.
31. Edmands S, Feaman HV, Harrison JS, Timmerman CC: Genetic consequences of many generations of hybridization between divergent copepod populations. J Hered 2005, 96:114-123.
32. Garnier-Gere PH, Naciri-Graven Y, Bougrier S, Magoulas A, Heral M, Kotoulas G, Hawkins A, Gerard A: Influences of triploidy, parentage and genetic diversity on growth of the Pacific oyster Crassostrea gigas reared in contrasting natural environments. Mol Ecol 2002, 11:1499-1514.
33. Miller LM, Close T, Kapuscinski AR: Lower fitness of hatchery and hybrid rainbow trout compared to naturalized populations in Lake Superior tributaries. Mol Ecol 2004, 13:3379-3388.
34. Neff BD: Stabilizing selection on genomic divergence in a wild fish population. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2004, 101:2381-2385.
35. Peer K, Taborsky M: Outbreeding depression, but no inbreeding depression in haplodiploid Ambrosia beetles with regular sibling mating. Evolution Int J Org Evolution 2005, 59:317-323.
36. Thornhill R, Moller AP: Developmental stability, disease and medicine. Biol Rev Camb Philos Soc 1997, 72:497-548.
37. Livshits G, Kobyliansky E: Lerner’s concept of developmental homeostasis and the problem of heterozygosity level in natural populations. Heredity 1985, 55 (Pt 3):341-353.
38. Tang H, Quertermous T, Rodriguez B, Kardia SLR, Zhu X, Brown A, Pankow JS, Province MA, Hunt SC, Boerwinkle E, et al: Genetic structure, self-identified race/ethnicity, and confounding in case-control association studies. Am J Hum Genet 2005, 76:268-275.

Posted by J Richards on Monday, June 6, 2005 at 05:38 PM in AnthropologyEthnicity and Ethnic Genetic InterestsHealthRace realism
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Comments:

1

Posted by J Richards on June 06, 2005, 06:05 PM | #

Charles Darwin on race mixing; more here (don’t take this very seriously):

These latter facts remind us of the statements, so frequently made by travellers in all parts of the world, on the degraded state and savage disposition of crossed races of man. That many excellent and kind-hearted mulattos have existed no one will dispute; and a more mild and gentle set of men could hardly be found than the inhabitants of the island of Chilce, who consist of Indians commingled with Spaniards in various proportions. On the other hand, many years ago, long before I had thought of the present subject, I was struck with the fact that, in South America, men of complicated descent between Negroes, Indians, and Spaniards, seldom had, whatever the cause might be, a good expression.(1) Livingstone,- and a more unimpeachable authority cannot be quoted,- after speaking of a half-caste man on the Zambesi, described by the Portuguese as a rare monster of inhumanity, remarks, “It is unaccountable why half-castes, such as he, are so much more cruel than the Portuguese, but such is undoubtedly the case.” An inhabitant remarked to Livingstone, “God made white men, and God made black men, but the Devil made half-castes.”(2) When two races, both low in the scale, are crossed the progeny seems to be eminently bad. Thus the noble-hearted Humboldt, who felt no prejudice against the inferior races, speaks in strong terms of the bad and savage disposition of Zambos, or half-castes between Indians and Negroes; and this conclusion has been arrived at by various observers.(3) From these facts we may perhaps infer that the degraded state of so many half-castes is in part due to reversion to a primitive and savage condition, induced by the act of crossing, even if mainly due to the unfavourable moral conditions under which they are generally reared.

[1] Journal of Researches, 1845, p. 71.
[2] Expedition to the Zambesi, 1865, pp. 25, 150.
[3] Dr. P. Broca, on ‘Hybridity in the Genus Homo,’ Eng. translat., 1864, p. 39.

2

Posted by Garabant on June 06, 2005, 06:30 PM | #

The authors controlled for age, sex, verbal IQ, grade point average, family structure (living with one or both parents), and family education; education can act as a proxy for socioeconomic status, and given an inverse relation between socioeconomic status and obesity in white women, [6] education can also act as a proxy for obesity in the white mothers of the mixed-race adolescents.  Controlling for all these factors left the general picture seen in Tables 2 and 3 unchanged; some statistically significant odds ratios lost statistical significance, but the ones greater than 1.00 can still be considered significant for the reasons addressed above, and there were very few instances of greater-than-1.00 odds ratios diminishing to less than 1.00.

I’m not a statistician, so I’m just curious, but how did the authors of Table 1 and 2 “control” for these cofounding variables? Is there some specific methodology they followed or anything?


As is seen in the figure below, the ANS is involved in the autonomic (involuntary; automatic) regulation of organs, and its abnormalities could easily be behind Udry’s data.

This seems like a plausible explanation, but are you sure it’s the correct one? Are there any studies which concentrate on ANS abnormalities in mixed-race adolescents?

3

Posted by Garabant on June 06, 2005, 06:32 PM | #

Oh, one more thing…

It is commonly observed that a disproportionate number of white women who end up with black men are obese.

Is this personal observation or are you quoting a study? You didn’t footnote it, or maybe I missed it…

4

Posted by Kubilai on June 06, 2005, 06:55 PM | #

It is commonly observed that a disproportionate number of white women who end up with black men are obese.

Is this personal observation or are you quoting a study? You didn’t footnote it, or maybe I missed it… - Garabant

If there is a study about this, I would love to see it.  More than likely, it is anecdotal evidence that is amassed from a lifetime of observation.  However, I do not want to put words in JR’s mouth so this is MY personal observations and speculation about the statement.  Now with that said, I am finding more than the occasional attractive White female in the company of a Black.  What are the potential reasons for this “sudden change” in women’s attitude?  Well, for one, the miscegenation promoting indoctrination has accelerated over the last decade or so.  It has become the “in thing” for White girls and women to date outside their race and when nearly every single commercial has a Black “intellect” in the company of Whites to signify the normality of such a situation, this nefarious programming has begun to creep into the minds of the fairer sex.  Same for men, though not to the same degree, again from observation.  I’d like to add that I am seeing more commercials with a Black and White that are a couple in a home environment which is the next obvious step.  Soon we will not see any uni-race couples on TV, only mixed-race, happy, “well adjusted” pictures of what the future SHOULD be.

5

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 06, 2005, 07:03 PM | #

“Oh, one more thing… It is commonly observed that a disproportionate number of white women who end up with black men are obese. Is this personal observation or are you quoting a study? You didn’t footnote it, or maybe I missed it…  (—Garabant)

Things like “the sky is blue,” “two plus two equals four,” and “the sun will rise tomorrow” don’t have to be footnoted or confirmed by “a study,” Garabant.  Only things that are potentially in doubt do.  If someone says, “The sun will rise tomorrow,” the typical leftist will say, “Have you any studies on that?  I haven’t seen any data on that.  Do you have data on that?”  Same exact thing if someone says, “Two plus two equals four,” or “The sky is blue”:  the leftist says, “Where’s your data on that?  I don’t recall seeing studies on that.  Can you cite studies on that?”  Don’t need ‘em.  Some things are universally recognized to be obvious (to all but your average leftist, that is).

6

Posted by Garabant on June 06, 2005, 07:06 PM | #

No, Fred, it’s really not self-evident. Around my neighborhood, the mixed-race couples I see consist of skinny white girls with brawny black guys. That’s why I’m asking JR if he’s citing any studies, since I’m curious as to whether my community is the statistical norm or an outlier.

7

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 06, 2005, 07:13 PM | #

Well, every other person in the world, in every other place on the planet but your neighborhood, Garaband, has noticed the exact opposite and considers it obvious and universally known.  Have you and data to back up your claim that in your neighborhood it’s the opposite?  The onus of proof is on you in this matter, Garaband.  Where’s your data proving the contrary of that universal observation?  Have you any studies on that?  Where are your studies on that?  How come you didn’t footnote that with a reference in your comment?  Everyone is waiting for data, Garaband.

8

Posted by Garabant on June 06, 2005, 07:19 PM | #

Have you and data to back up your claim that in your neighborhood it’s the opposite?

No, which is why…

I’m asking JR if he’s citing any studies, since I’m curious as to whether my community is the statistical norm or an outlier.

It’d be interesting to see hard numbers and proportions for this kind of thing. It’s not something the MSM covers a lot.

9

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 06, 2005, 07:38 PM | #

Outlier.

10

Posted by John S Bolton on June 06, 2005, 08:29 PM | #

Another potentially disastrous effect is that uncommon recessive alleles of disease resistance will tend to not appear in homozygous form, and thus never be identified, as we move towards greater genetic distance between parents. To say this is good is a species of nihilism; destroying what could be great value and even necessary for the survival of the species,

11

Posted by J Richards on June 06, 2005, 10:49 PM | #

Garabant,

Statistical control is simply a way of seeing whether the outcomes vary as a function of the variable controlled for.  Thus, if the outcomes in Tables 2 and 3 are found to not vary as a function of age, then one can argue that the results are not a function of the age of the participant.

I am not aware of any study that has specifically examined the ANS in mixed-race adolescents, and this would not be feasible anyway in a large-scale study such as the one that I have addressed, but abnormal ANS functioning would be a prime candidate for explaining Udry’s data given that the ANS plays a central role in whole-organism-level physiological control.  To make a better case for ANS involvement, it would be worthwhile to repeat this study with a much larger sample size and specifically focus on atopy (a group of diseases such as asthma, skin problems such as eczema and psoriasis, allergies, runny nose, sinusitis, migraine); atopy is related to prenatal developmental disturbances, and a higher prevalence of atopy in mixed-race individuals would associate race mixing with increased likelihood of prenatal developmental disturbances.  Nevertheless, Udry’s study has reported a higher incidence of skin problems, headaches, and aches and pains among mixed-race adolescents. 

Speaking of white women involved with black men being disproportionately obese compared to the white norm, this is something that is apparently a common observation.  Of course, white women involved with black men come from the entire spectrum of physique types—and I have mentioned Heidi Klum, who is a slim and attractive international supermodel—but the obese element appears to be disproportionately overrepresented.  I do not know of any systematic studies in this regard, but this notion is considered a really offensive stereotype in sociological circles, i.e., one would get oneself in a lot of trouble by trying to study something like this.  Anyway, I am curious what neighborhood you reside in.  The skinny white women that I have seen with black men have tended toward above-average physical masculinization; have you observed something similar?

12

Posted by J Richards on June 06, 2005, 10:51 PM | #

John S. Bolton,

You have mentioned a good point.  I have an upcoming post that addresses hybrid vigor in more detail, and I will be addressing some interesting genetics such as an allele that makes one immune to infection by the most common form of HIV if one has two copies of it, and this allele has the highest prevalence in Northern Europe and is virtually absent among blacks and other non-white races.

13

Posted by Garabant on June 06, 2005, 11:13 PM | #

I live in a rathor isolated suburb in N.Y, so I’ve hardly seen a representative sample of black-white couples—that’s why I was hoping you had on hand some studies done on whether women in black-white couples tended to be obese. Thanks anyways, though.

One more thing I thought I’d point out before moseying on, however, is that looking at the tables you give us, mixed-race children don’t seem to be *universally* worse-off. The children of blacks and American Indians, for instance, smoke, drink, and get drunk at ratios of about .31, .68, and .57 compared to their Indian parents respectively, which seems to be an improvement. Also, none of these ratios are extraordinarily high—the largest I’ve seen are 4.08 and 4.25 for drinking problems in black-Asian pairings, and a ratio of 4.64 for headaches in Asians compared to mixed-race Asian-Native American children. Those seem to be outliers; from what I can see, there are a few values below 1 (like the Indian-Black drinking example I pointed out) and most of the others aren’t much higher than 1 or 2 at the most. I’ll agree that the effects of miscegenation are, on average, mildly deleterious, and that the public should be made aware of this, but I don’t believe these effects are grave enough to merit the return of anti-miscegenation laws, for instance. Inter-racial couplings seem to be somewhat detrimental to society as a whole, but as far as I can tell from the data, there are far worse behaviors people could be engaging in besides miscegenation.

14

Posted by J Richards on June 06, 2005, 11:45 PM | #

Garabant,
I am not in favor of anti-miscegenation laws.  Besides, the Native American group is problematic, as I have noted in the post, for the following reasons:

72% of those identifying as American Indian also picked another racial category, usually white.

34% of those identifying as American Indian only at school identified as white only at home, and 77% of those identifying as white/American Indian at school identified as white only at home.

Anyway, race mixing could be beneficial in some special cases, as I have alluded to, but it appears to be detrimental to health, on average.  Given the resilience characteristic of physiological control, the genetic consequences are likely worse than the phenotypic (structural/functional) consequences, and the negative genetic consequences of race mixing would be clearer when developing fetuses, on average, have to deal with more stressors, which could be the case if our future descendents do not have an advanced civilization to live in.

15

Posted by John S Bolton on June 08, 2005, 07:08 PM | #

Sometimes we are told to expect a hybrid vigor effect which would extend even to mental vigor, from interbreeding across racial genetic distances. Terman’s kids, by Shurkin, mentions that there were 7 mixed race children found out of ~1400 top one percent IQ children recruited for the Terman study. This is ~1/2 of 1%; but the mestizo plus mulatto percentage in the recruitment area of CA cities (SF, LA and EBay) would presumably have been at least 5% in 1922, which is a tenfold underrepresentation. These children only had to score in the top 1% or so on several IQ tests at age eleven or thereabouts. Also the great races can not be spoken of as suffering from inbreeding depression; the populations are millions of times larger than the groups of 200 or smaller, which could be said to have inbreeding depression from small size.

16

Posted by J Richards on June 09, 2005, 09:53 AM | #

John S. Bolton,

You are the man!  Not only is there no reason to believe that white IQ, especially the tail end of the bell curve responsible for the development/enhancement of civilization, could be improved via the absorption of non-whites, there is the evidence that you mention negating an alleged hybrid-vigor effect on IQ.  Reminds me to come up with a post specifically focusing on the IQ of non-whites such as Northeastern Asians, whose absorption among whites, some may argue, could possibly lead to a higher-IQ white/Asian hybrid population.

17

Posted by Amman on June 09, 2005, 02:16 PM | #

I’m actually rather suspicious of this—from what I understand, the Asian advantage in visio-spatial IQ is somewhat mitigated by their lower verbal IQs. On the other hand, is there any evidence that White-Asian hybrids have lower IQs than either of their two parent races?

Another thing I’m curious about is the presence of hybrids on other measures of social dysfunction. The charts you provide concentrate on physical and mental maladies (drinking, skin problems, etc.) but might you have any data pertaining to the crime rates of mixed-race people in comparison to non-hybridized people?

18

Posted by JW Holliday on June 09, 2005, 03:02 PM | #

Check out this MR post from 29th March

At the bottom I discuss Eurasian mixing and IQ.  The European-Asian difference in mean IQ is a fraction of a SD - so the idea of raising European with Asians is absurd – a complete panmixia is needed to make a difference of a couple of points.  Any eugenics-led idea of “using” only “high-IQ” Asians for this project can lead to the question: why not just promote high-IQ European mating?

19

Posted by Amman on June 09, 2005, 03:50 PM | #

Thanks, JW. My question though, was whether the IQ of hybrid white-asian people was *lower* as a result of “hybridization depression.” In fact, that’s another thing I’m wondering about—what are the IQs of mixed-race people compared to their parent’s races? John S. makes a point that they’re unlikely to be as intelligent as whites, but I’m curious, are mullatos and other hybrids more intelligent than the average unmixed black or Native American?

20

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 09, 2005, 08:56 PM | #

“Thanks, JW. My question though, was whether the IQ of hybrid white-asian people was *lower* as a result of ‘hybridization depression.’ In fact, that’s another thing I’m wondering about—what are the IQs of mixed-race people compared to their parent’s races? John S. makes a point that they’re unlikely to be as intelligent as whites, but I’m curious, are mullatos and other hybrids more intelligent than the average unmixed black or Native American?”  (—Amman)

Amman whites don’t want to be racially experimented on and don’t want their communities or nations racially experimented on.  Why not shift the venue for all these racial experiments from white countries to non-white ones?  There are plenty of whites who’d want to travel from here to yellow, brown, and black countries in order to take part in replacing those races over there with white people by intermarrying with them on their home territories, not on ours, thank you.  So, can we move the whole undertaking to the Indian Subcontinent, China, Mexico, or Black Africa and leave whites alone in their own communities and nation-states?  I keep getting the feeling if we fail to come up with some cogent-enough argument why we shouldn’t be race-replaced in our own countries we’ll have lost our right to protest against our own replacement, and will be obliged to submit as to something inevitable.  It’s not inevitable, nor is our right not to have to undergo it dependent on our being able to supply some “proof” or other to the effect we should be excused from having it inflicted on us.  We don’t want it.  Do you hear that?  Here, Amman, come closer and cup your hand behind your ear: 

WE!  DON’T!  WANT!  IT! 

Did you hear it that time? 

Your thought experiments on the outcomes of race-replacement schemes inflicted on white nations and communities begin to bore me.  Go do thought experiments on replacing your own race, please (which you’ve never wanted to divulge, by the way).  Take a taste of your own medicine for once and see how you like it.  Put that in your endless “hybridization of whites with non-whites thought experiments” pipe and smoke it, Amman.

21

Posted by Amman on June 09, 2005, 09:05 PM | #

I keep getting the feeling if we fail to come up with some cogent-enough argument why we shouldn’t be race-replaced in our own countries we’ll have lost our right to protest against our own replacement, and will be obliged to submit as to something inevitable.  It’s not inevitable, nor is our right not to have to undergo it dependent on our being able to supply some “proof” or other to the effect we should be excused from having it inflicted on us.

Where did I ever say I supported race replacement? I merely wish to learn more about the effects of racial hybridization, good and bad. You’re attacking an argument I never made, nor presumed to make.

22

Posted by John S Bolton on June 09, 2005, 09:05 PM | #

The usual finding is that mixed race are in the halfway position relative to their source populations. We’ve been told to expect ‘hybrid vigor’, though, and there is no indication of this on the large scale. Regarding overall health conditions; how is it that the coloureds of SA have not taken over in Southern Africa? If something like heterosis were operating, the mixed population should be capable of combining the malaria resistance of blacks with the TB resistance of whites, but not one individual has been found who possesses that combination in noticeable degree. In theory, it is not expected that even one such individual would be found; and this devastates the racialized hybrid vigor hypothesis.

23

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 09, 2005, 09:09 PM | #

Does everyone want to know why we can be sure white Euros must be viewed the world over by all other peoples, nations, and races as the most desirable humans, the most beautiful humans, the best humans, and the smartest humans in the world?  We can be sure that’s how they view us because they all want to come here and mix with us.  If they viewed us otherwise they wouldn’t all be so desperate to come here and try to find some way to mix their genes with ours.  We only want to be left alone racially, but they won’t hear of it—we’ve apparently got what they want for their own kids, grandkids, and further progeny:  whiteness, white-raceness, white genes.  We’ve got what they want, all right.  No one need ask whom non-whites view as the best race in the world to be.  Clearly, it’s whites.

24

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 09, 2005, 09:17 PM | #

“I merely wish to learn more about the effects of racial hybridization,”

Who in the goddamn hell cares, Amman, if we whites don’t want to be hybridized?  Go hybridize yourselves for a change, and leave our race alone for once, if you please.  There’s always this endless discussion of potential ways in which white-nonwhite hybridization might be advangageous for whites.  Well, it’s not.  It’s only disadvantageous for whites if whites don’t want to be hybridized.  There, you have your answer, so go peddle your genes elsewhere, Amman.  Whites seem to be perpetually defending themselves in arguments against nonwhites who want to hybridize them. GO JUMP IN A LAKE, NON-WHITES!  GO HYBRIDIZE YOURSELVES, IN ANY WAY YOU LIKE, AND LEARN TO LEAVE OTHERS ALONE!

25

Posted by Amman on June 09, 2005, 09:17 PM | #

The usual finding is that mixed race are in the halfway position relative to their source populations.

That’s what I always thought, really. Although J.Richards points out a possible “hybrid depression” effect, I had always hypothesized the mulattoes, mixed-race Indians, etc. were below whites in terms of intelligence, law-abidingness, etc. but above their colored brethren.

That said, while genetc resistances to diseases are certainly important, I’m not really sure their preservation is such a terrible blow against the concept of miscegenation. Human ingenuity can easily surpass nature’s gifts. For instance, Whites have little resistance to malaria, but the invention of quinine (and the creation of more effective vaccines) soon overcame that drawback—indeed, allowed them to conquer Africa.

26

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 09, 2005, 09:19 PM | #

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…................

27

Posted by Amman on June 09, 2005, 09:21 PM | #

GO HYBRIDIZE YOURSELVES, IN ANY WAY YOU LIKE, AND LEARN TO LEAVE OTHERS ALONE!

As I told you above, I do not advocate racial hybridization. I simply wish to learn more about the subject from a scientific standpoint. I can’t see what’s so difficult to understand about this. Simple curiosity is not indicative of a race-replacer.

28

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 09, 2005, 09:29 PM | #

What’s your race/sub-race, Amman?  Will you say it, finally?  You’ve been refusing to, ever since posting here as “Herodotus” some months back.

29

Posted by Amman on June 09, 2005, 09:36 PM | #

What’s your race/sub-race, Amman?  Will you say it, finally?  You’ve been refusing to, ever since posting here as “Herodotus” some months back.

Who? “Amman” is the only name I’ve posted on this particular blog. I posted once on Thrasymachus’ blog as “Gamman,” but that was a typo.

As for my race, I see no harm in divulging it. I’m Bengali. Incidentally, that’s what brought me commenting to this blog, since I saw some discussion pertaining to the Aryans as well as the early civilizations of Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa, which I happened to be learning about at the time.

30

Posted by J Richards on June 10, 2005, 11:24 PM | #

Fred Scrooby,

You need not have treated Amman harshly; he is simply interested in some of the consequences of race mixing and not advocating race mixing.  Besides, even if he were advocating race mixing, this is a free-speech blog, and he might as well.

31

Posted by J Richards on June 10, 2005, 11:27 PM | #

Amman,

Speaking of crime rates among mixed-race individuals, I do not know of any study that has addressed this issue.  However, I do vaguely recall hearing about elevated criminality among the coloreds in South Africa compared to blacks, although I have no idea how reliable this statement is.  I also vaguely recall a critique of J. P. Rushton’s racial ordering of crime proneness (black > white > Northeastern Asian) in terms of low levels of violent criminality among a number of black African groups, excluding the South Africans.  Therefore, there is a possibility that some of the criminality of African-Americans—excluding crimes related to poverty—could be assigned to the deleterious effects of race mixing (African-Americans have about 20% European genetic admixture).  Note that I have cited literature on an association between violent behavior and ANS abnormalities. 

Udry‘s data address some variables that can be taken as a weak proxy for delinquency: school suspensions, skipping school and illegal drug use (tends to correlate with various delinquent behaviors in the general adolescent population).  Based on these counts, it would appear that delinquency is somewhat increased among mixed-race adolescents.

32

Posted by J Richards on June 10, 2005, 11:35 PM | #

Amman,

Regarding your IQ question, my post addresses health, not IQ, but the IQ question can be considered, too.  You are right that the math and verbal abilities of Asians can be different, and among East Asians, they can differ by as much as one-half to a full standard deviation.  However, a number of studies—and chances are that none of these are based on representative samples of Asians—have revealed a few points average-IQ advantage for N.E. Asians compared to whites.

To address the question whether there is an IQ decrease due to race mixing, ideally one would mix races with the same cognitive abilities, but races differ in their cognitive abilities.  Since a substantial proportion of the variance in IQ is accounted for by additive genetics, when races of differing cognitive abilities are mixed, the mixed offspring tend to have intermediate scores on cognitive abilities.  Therefore, any possible deleterious effects of race mixing on IQ are masked by the additive effects of the genes.  Further, some of the genes behind IQ are non-additive, and the contributions of the non-additive genes also mask any possible deleterious effects of race mixing on IQ.  The question whether there is an IQ decrease due to race mixing compared to the IQ of the offspring of same-race individuals—when the parental disparity in cognitive abilities is controlled for—will likely be answered in the future when better data are available.

On the other hand, John S. Bolton specifically focuses on the right tail region of the bell curve, which is obviously especially relevant to the development/enhancement of civilization.  In this regard, compare the former Soviets to the Chinese.  Given the powerful militaristic ambitions of communist nations, you can expect these nations to heavily devote themselves to coming up with more advanced military technology.  The Soviets were the first people to send man to space and other than being the leaders in space technology for a while, they also had the best fighter jets for quite a while; it is another thing that following the collapse of communism, many of Russia’s top scientists left for other nations.  However, the Chinese, with a slightly higher average IQ and a much greater population size, were nowhere close to the Soviets in advanced technology.  To this day, China notably lags the West with respect to the most advanced forms of technology such as space tech and military tech, in spite of the Chinese numbering a lot more than whites.  Besides, a lot of Chinese cutting-edge technology is stolen from the West.  This and many other facts—that I will surely address in detail later—suggest that N.E. Asians simply do not come anywhere close to producing as many geniuses as whites do.  Therefore, I seriously doubt that white/Asian hybrids would be more likely than whites to occupy the far-right tail region of the bell curve. 

You mention:

That said, while genetc resistances to diseases are certainly important, I’m not really sure their preservation is such a terrible blow against the concept of miscegenation. Human ingenuity can easily surpass nature’s gifts. For instance, Whites have little resistance to malaria, but the invention of quinine (and the creation of more effective vaccines) soon overcame that drawback—indeed, allowed them to conquer Africa.

Speaking of the kind of human ingenuity you mention, this has typically been on the part of white males.  Besides, compare the white man’s anti-malarial protection (synthesized drug) with the black man’s protection against malaria: a defective allele that is responsible for producing sickle-shaped [and malfunctioning] red blood cells.  Two copies of the sickling allele are fatal without continual medical treatment that the black man never developed.  One copy only of the sickling allele corresponds to health problems but decreases the severity of malarial infection, thereby increasing the likelihood of surviving this infection.  Note that the sickling allele does not make one resistant to the disease; it just reduces the severity of the infection.

Now, I don’t know about you, but I prefer the white man’s ingenuity concerning the problem of parasites to the black man’s way of relying on luck (genetic mutations) and mass deaths (natural selection).  It is unlikely that the white man’s ingenuity, lying in the far-right tail region of the bell curve, could be preserved, let alone enhanced via the large-scale absorption of non-whites among whites.

33

Posted by Amman on June 10, 2005, 11:39 PM | #

J. Richards,

Thanks muchly for your response. I’ll do some digging to see if I can find anything about the critique of Rushton’s work you mentioned, along with elevated levels of criminality among South African coloreds.

It’s important to note, though, that in many scales, relatively admixed African-Americans would seem to surpass their “purer” African counterparts. For instance, the average IQ of Africans is quite low—somewhere around 70, I believe. The average IQ of African-Americans is about 85, which is quite an impressive difference! Of course, white admixture isn’t necessary to explain this gap—Steve Sailer has hypothesized that the harshness of life in Africa, such as the lack of availability of nutrious foods and such, may be artificially depressing IQ scores.

Anyways, thanks again for your time.

34

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 11, 2005, 08:47 AM | #

Amman, one of my intellectual passions has always been the topic of Bengali girls bearing mixed-race children with African-Negro fathers, Chinese and other yellow fathers, and Mexican peasant fathers.  You see, I’ve always had this intense interest in the possibilities of filling Bangladesh up with other races, ultimately displacing all the natives there, race-replacing them.  No, I’m not just saying that to get your goat as Birch is always trying to do when he’s around white people—I’m not:  I really mean that.  I’m being sincere.  You see, I’ve always gotten the greatest pleasure imagining a Bangladesh where all the Bengali women and men made babies with people of yellow, Mexican, and Negro races instead of with people of their own race, and filled up the country with those of mixed race.  Now, my question is, have you any data on that?  I very much want to endlessly discuss the topic of your women, Bengali women, mating with men of those other three races I mentioned—only non-Moslem men, by the way—I want the race-mixing to be really as complete as possible, so when I say they must bear children by African-Negro fathers I mean Christian or animist African Negroes, not Moslem ones, and ditto for Chinese dads:  all yellows who impregnate these Bengali women have to be non-Moslem.  I’d be extremely interested to learn about the statistical characteristics of these mixed-race children thus produced in abundance in regard to crime rates, IQs, disease resistance, and so on.  I hope you’ll be able to participate in this discussion with me, and I’ll be very much looking forward to seeing copious articles from the literature cited by you in your upcoming posts here.  The reason this topic interests me so much is, for one thing, I just have a pure scientific interest in it, and for another, I have a practical interest, in that I believe, as I said, that Bangladesh should be race-changed into a racially hybrid nation for its own good and the good of the world.  So I’m hoping you’ll be able to help me out on this.

35

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 11, 2005, 10:36 AM | #

If Jason Soon’s reading this, I’d like him to tell us all the same thing in regard to Chinese women—both in China and among the Overseas Chinese—bearing the babies only of African Negro men, Mexican peasant men, and Bengali men (positively no Chinese men).  I just find that topic sooooooo interesting, and have a tremendous desire to discuss it endlessly and in infinite detail—so, I hope Jason Soon will be able to contribute lots of articles from the literature on that, lots of studies and data, and so on.

36

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 11, 2005, 10:42 AM | #

Grown suddenly silent, Amman?

Jason? ...

Hello? ...

Anyone out there? ...

... Looks like no one’s around, all of a sudden.  Participants suddenly ... found something else they had to attend to? ...  But ... but ... but ... I thought the subject of race-mixing was so interesting to discuss, to discuss so endlessly too, and in such minute scientific detail, citing all the “studies,” all the “data” ...

Musta been mistaken, I guess ...

37

Posted by Amman on June 11, 2005, 02:23 PM | #

Actually, Fred, I’d be happy to discuss the subject with you…if I had any pertinent data on hand,  that is. I’m not a professional scientist like JR, so I have neither the access to nor the experience with scientific journals he does.

Based on the tables JR provided, however, I would guess that Bengali exogamy with Negros, Amerindians, and other races would have the same marginally negative effects on offspring that exogamy seems to have in general. I still do not believe these negative effects are widespread and grave enough to merit enactment of anti-miscegenation laws, as I said above, so if some Bengali person wished to breed with a Negro or Amerindian, that it his perogative and none of my business.

38

Posted by Sandra on June 11, 2005, 03:34 PM | #

You must all have IQs under 50…the human race is ONE RACE…we are form different ethnicities…if you were so superior you would know that

39

Posted by Sandra on June 11, 2005, 03:36 PM | #

in England it’s not the blacks the asians, the southern europeans or the jews who statistically do the worst in school…guess who it is!!! yes it’s the caucasions

40

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 11, 2005, 04:26 PM | #

“in England it’s not the blacks the asians, the southern europeans or the jews who statistically do the worst in school…guess who it is!!! yes it’s the caucasions”  (—Sandra)

Thanks for that info, Sandra.  But dumb though they be, the Caucasians still retain the right to say who’ll come flooding into their country in the form of wave after wave of immigrants and who won’t, and if they don’t want the people flooding in to be non-whites they’ve a right say so.

41

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 11, 2005, 04:34 PM | #

“so if some Bengali person wished to breed with a Negro or Amerindian, that is his prerogative and none of my business.”  (—Amman)

“Some Bengali person”?  Who said anything about “some Bengali person”?  I’m talking about the whole Bengali nation doing it, Amman—the entire nation of Bangladesh.  Isn’t that what white nations are expected to do nowadays—disappear racially?  Surely we can’t be the only ones that’s expected of!

42

Posted by Amman on June 11, 2005, 04:56 PM | #

I’m talking about the whole Bengali nation doing it, Amman—the entire nation of Bangladesh.

None of my business—I don’t live in Bangladesh, so if that country wants to import millions of foreigners and dilute its “racial stock,” then its welcome to do so, although that’s not really advisable due to its population problems. I really don’t care about the welfare of the Bengali race—I’ve got enough trouble worrying about my own skin. Whatever happens in Bangladesh is of no concern to me.

There, does that answer your question?

43

Posted by J Richards on June 12, 2005, 06:08 PM | #

Sandra,

If you had bothered to read the post carefully before firing off your comment that humans are differentiated culturally but not racially, you would have come across the following:

Consider also the fact that the genetic correlation structures manifesting as different races are so distinct that when a computer was asked to classify DNA data (326 microsatellite markers) from 3,636 individuals self-identifying as either white, East Asian, African-American, or Hispanic, into clusters, without being told which DNA sample came from which racial group, the computer clustered the DNA data into 4 groups, classifying all but 5 individuals into the correct self-identified racial group. [38]

Look up reference # 38.  The 0.14% misclassification resulted from the use of highly admixed groups such as African-Americans and Latinos, and if the researchers had not limited themselves to the 326 satellite markers, they would have achieved 100% accuracy.  Besides, I would like you to refute the evidence here for racial differentiation among humans.

Regarding your comment about England, are you insane?  There is great variation in IQ within any group, and some blacks surely have higher IQs than a number of Asians, Southern Europeans, Jews and whites, but if you can cite evidence that blacks, on average, have higher IQs or perform better academically than the other groups mentioned, I’d be impressed.  Further, among Asians, the Pakistanis have been drawn from a lower class compared to the Indians and hence perform worse than Indians, but blacks in England are at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to academic performance; the Pakistanis are close to the blacks, but appear to be slightly better. 

——————————————————-

Fred Scrooby,

In case you did not know, a Bengali need not be a Bangladeshi; he could be from the Indian state of West Bengal, which is adjacent to Bangladesh, and could very well be a Hindoo; most people in West Bengal are Hindoos.

44

Posted by Amman on June 12, 2005, 06:21 PM | #

No, I’m a Bangladeshi, though I have relatives who live in West Bengal.

In any case, Fred’s comments have piqued my curiosity…Bengalis, “Hindoos,” and other people from India are often swept under the blanket term of “South Asian,” in my experience. In the tables you provide, do the “Asian” virgules encompass Hindus, Bengalis, and other natives of Asia as well, or was that referring solely to East Asian mongoloids?

45

Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 12, 2005, 10:43 PM | #

“Fred Scrooby, In case you did not know, a Bengali need not be a Bangladeshi; he could be from the Indian state of West Bengal, which is adjacent to Bangladesh, and could very well be a Hindoo; most people in West Bengal are Hindoos.”

J. Richards, thanks for that info.  I did know there was an Indian state where Bengalis lived, and vaguely pictured it as adjacent to Bangladesh, but didn’t know it was called West Bengal or that most people there were Hindus.  Its Hindu religion makes sense of course when you think of it, because otherwise there wouldn’t have been a dividing line drawn through the Bengali nation in 1947 with one part remaining in India (therefore presumably majority Hindu), the other breaking away with Pakistan (therefore majority Moslem) as the former East Pakistan, becoming Bangladesh after 1972(?) the civil war there.

46

Posted by J Richards on June 16, 2005, 06:33 AM | #

Amman,

Sorry for the delay in the response, but the Asian in Udry’s study refers to East Asian (Mongoloids).

47

Posted by Bishop on January 14, 2006, 08:18 PM | #

BWAHAHAHAHAH! This made me laugh!! How foolish…

48

Posted by ben tillman on January 15, 2006, 02:57 AM | #

No, Fred, it’s really not self-evident. Around my neighborhood, the mixed-race couples I see consist of skinny white girls with brawny black guys. That’s why I’m asking JR if he’s citing any studies, since I’m curious as to whether my community is the statistical norm or an outlier.

It hardly needs saying that what you see in your neighborhood is not representative of what generally holds true.  Unfortunately, there are indeed attractive white women who fall under the sway of black men, but any reality-based person can easily discern the phenomenon mentioned above.  Your relying on your observations in your neighborhood is like my relying on my observations in law school to conclude that the average African-American IQ is not 85.  It’s not a random sample!

49

Posted by ben tillman on January 15, 2006, 03:02 AM | #

And, good Lord, Garabant, wherever you are, and whatever the race, men tend not to take their unattractive women out in public.

50

Posted by ML on February 07, 2006, 10:32 AM | #

Brown people are so obtuse you just want to jump out the nearest window. “I don’t live in Bangladesh”—which means he lives somewhere civilized, probably the UK or some such. He says he wanted to read about Aryans “and” the Harappan culture—which means he believes brown people were “the REAL Aryans” and blah blah blah.

There’s no arguing this stuff with racial inferiors. They lie because they can’t resist it and have nothing real to recommend them. They will take any truth and twist it into the exact opposite to flatter themselves. These are the people with the upper-hand in our world: ugly brown things who ignore reality. ¡Brought to you by Hyman Whateverstein & Co., muchas gracias por su cooperacion!

51

Posted by User_1234 on October 17, 2006, 06:31 AM | #

Wow, This is exactly why I refuse to support any racial groups.  Not only have you left out key elements to the study but you’ve also changed the principle of what the study was about, “social, behavioral, and environmental factors this includes household issues, education levels, income.. so many other factors.

    Has UNC given you permission to use this data?
if anyone would like to see the real report please head over to http://www.cpc.unc.edu/bios/index.php?person=udry

    You people are sick, sick to the point where you lie and change data on “REAL” studies to support your twisted views on the world; If this were academia you would be ripped of every academic credential you have.

52

Posted by Guessedworker on October 17, 2006, 07:13 AM | #

JR expressly states that, “The data in question come from ...”  He is not saying that the report is restricted to that data alone.  So you are simply wrong - or duplicitous.

It is, of course, sick to pathologise the white European instinct for survival.  What is your reason for doing that?  A kindly interpretation, if you are of European lineage, would be that you personally are filled with the political toxin of left-liberalism and all that is “correct”, and cannot see straight.  If you are not of European lineage perhaps you would tell us your ethnicity so we can judge your motivation for ourselves.

53

Posted by J Richards on October 17, 2006, 06:55 PM | #

User_1234,

What key elements of the study have been left out?  All the tables from the paper have been presented. 

As already noted, the health effects remained mostly the same after controlling for age, sex, verbal IQ, grade point average, family structure (living with one or both parents) and family education.

No permission from UNC is required to address the study reported.  You accuse us of lying and changing data, but the tables have been presented as is.  If you had any valid criticism that the data are definitely not explicable in terms of biological effects of race mixing, you would have provided it, but all you do is accuse us of academic fraud.  You are the one who is sick and your views are twisted.

54

Posted by Nick Tamiroff on October 18, 2006, 03:37 AM | #

Damn Fred,you got another four-bagger on this one-I about pissed my pants! And just who the hell is this 1234? Definately not Mike Adams from Chapel Hill.He-He! By law,if a school is State or Federally funded-ALL RECORDS ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.Period,end of discourse,go away 1234- I love his hiding behind the “academia” ruse-seems to become a prevalent position for those who have problems supporting themselves,while esposing their vast wisdom and knowledge we great unwashed have yet to receive.Fuck him and the Sheep he rode in on.LOl and Semper Fi ! Nick T

55

Posted by Nick Tamiroff on October 18, 2006, 04:31 AM | #

Gw-You obviously have the patience of Job,the wisdom of Solomon,the strength of Samson,and the acquiesence of Mother Theresa. Either that,or you’re doing some heavy-duty drugs-AND I WANT SOME!!!!  Sorry-Just had to [he-he] bring up the possibility.LOL Cheers!

56

Posted by Nick Tamiroff on October 18, 2006, 05:21 AM | #

To what ever idiot posted it-the"skinney white girl’” was a crack whore-something that happens soon after hooking up with a Nigger-I see it every day here in Florida-a nice looking hooker turned into a hag in just months;then relying on an occasional blow-job,and the soup kitchens to survive-sad,but real.Between MTV,our schools,and liberal parenting,girls feel OBLIGATED to fuck Niggers-and the present day society applauds it.WTF? You adults,parents,teachers,video producers,et. al. are as much to blame as the predetory Nigger.He’s just going after easy pickings-and because of the drugs/money culture,willget right in your face ,and tell you"Ican take your bitch anytime I want"And being the typically white you will be intimidated and back off.Most white men in the US need to leave their balls at home with Mommy,and meet with their faggot Boy Scout leader. Bottom line-We have allowed our White women to blatently misceganate with Niggers,all the while singing Kombaya to some idiot WHITE educator who tells us the values of “diversity”.DOES ANYONE ELSE WANT TO PUKE??

57

Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 18, 2006, 12:39 PM | #

Nick’s absolutely right in the above comment:  “Between MTV, our schools, and liberal parenting” (as well as a few other sources of influence, such as Hollywood movies, the fashion world, and others) white girls feel obligated to make themselves freely available to Negroes for sex.  They’re applauded by our society when they do, since they’re “not being racist,” and they’re looked on with disapproval by society when they don’t, since then “they’re being racist.”  The girls feel themselves guided in these directions quite forcefully — let no one mistake this — and behave accordingly.  Excellent point, Nick.

58

Posted by J Richards on October 18, 2006, 08:52 PM | #

Nick Tamiroff,

Next time you comment on an academic article, please use language suitable for an academic discussion or people like “User_1234” will have reasons to label us sick people.

59

Posted by Kiyomi on April 01, 2007, 03:44 AM | #

ok, I haven’t done any in-depth scientific research on this subject, just posting here what I have observed as individual over the years, so it may be anectodal, but oh well.

My mother is Japanese and my dad was Jewish-American. I grew up here in So Cal, where we have a highly diverse population in terms of race, cultures, etc. As a result, I have known many types of people over the years, including many mixed Asians.

I have read various articles, including this one, about the genetic positives of mixed races. Ok, here is what I think.
I think that mixed persons (particularly in regards to the mixed Asians I have known) have been socially considered more “exotic” or beautiful from a physical viewpoint, and can be often complimented for it, especially here in California.  I don’t know if this has a direct bearing on “health” per se, but if being attractive can make you healthier, there could be a link, though I am not sure. I would think attractiveness makes one more able to attract persons with better genes to breed with, but that can be questionable.

Honestly, in terms of intelligence, I don’t think the mixed Asians are any more or less so than others, contrary to popular belief. I believe parental intelligence is more directly related to the child’s individual intellect, more than their racial make-up. How I came to see this is because though many of the mixed persons I know have adequately intelligent parents and are sufficiently intelligent themselves, there are also a number of these persons that are not very bright in any spectacular sense- perhaps even dull witted even. If anything, I have noticed that some of these mixed Asian people are less creative or intelligent than the average person on the street! Not to sound harsh, but I believe these rather uninspiring mixed race Asians are the products of Asian women (usually Asian women vs. Asian men) who married U.S service men who could be considered basic rural boys with little education, and who have dirty mouths, etc. Some of these men even had severe drinking/addiction problems, and were certainly not the “best and brightest” of their peers. So these men went overseas back in the day and brought back with them Asian brides, having mixed children. I think possibly some of these Asian women who happened to hook up with these males were also not very highly educated- only perhaps finishing junior high school back in thier own countries, so they were not exactly sophisticated college women themselves. I’m not saying they are “stupid” per se, but certainly not the most intellectual women on the block. So as a result of these pairings, I have seen mixed Asians who are not very bright, and may even have severe alcohol/drug problems. Many of them never stepped foot into a college, and don’t have highly paid professions either.

ok, so I know I have focused a bit on the part of the mixed Asian population who didn’t exactly get the best intellectual genes. But of course there are many, especially the newer couples where one parent is Asian and the other is not, where the opposite is true. I think the younger Asian women who marry outside of their race appear to be better educated, and tend to pick males who are also of equal intelligence as themselves. So the newest generations of mixed Asians may be brighter than those before them, possibly. Therefore, this probably somewhat reinforces the notion that intelligence may not be racial exactly, but more about the type of parents one has.

on looks, hmm… the Asian mixtures contain the uniqueness that “pure-breds” perhaps don’t have, thus exacerbating their attractiveness quotient- they probably appear more striking or “novel.” But of course beauty is not about race in any case, more about symmetry of face and body.

60

Posted by Dahlia on April 17, 2007, 10:51 AM | #

Hey Fred Scooby-Doo,
I’m a black Jamaican girl with an IQ of 120. I’ve been tested several times. Funny thing is I was only considered as being average in school. I tested my IQ in the UK and was surprised to find it’s above average. A lot of the data on here seems to largely exclude the effects of socialization and RASISM. Yes I said it. The white race considers itself superior and has savagely (with no wit or civility) forced this perception onto everyone in its path. Unfortunatly things like IQ, social status, levels of crime, and health are often made better in groups that have higher self and social esteem. If Asians or Blacks had the lack of respect shown by whites in history to COLONISE white coutries and ENSLAVE their people then whites may well have worse health and higher levels of crime and lower IQ’s due to poor socilization and ill afforded oppertunities to them as a group.

A lot of these issues cited are maladies of the social response human beings have to their physical and emation environment. The truth is - we are no better or worse than each other, just different. In this world competition between families and comunities and countries and races forces us to come up with misinforformed tests and studies to “”“Prove”“” than one is better, or smarter or faster or stronger than the other. I don’t for a second think that this was God’s intention or even evolutions intention. We are all created equal - we are all created different and a mixed race child is as equal and as different as the rest of us.
The prompt for these studies is really emmbeded in the fact that we can barely tolerate each other when anything seems out of place and if anyone dare put a foot wrong and decide to cross the boundries - well however that happens weather it’s pisses people off.
Mixed race people challenge the fact that we are solid in what we are. I am black and proud - I am white and proud - I am asian and proud. Hmmm - suppose I was all three and the whole of society could change depending on who my parents felt like having sex with. Now that’s just really scary isn’t it.

61

Posted by someone on October 17, 2007, 04:37 PM | #

bla bla bla indians bla bla bla whites

62

Posted by Lurker on October 17, 2007, 07:37 PM | #

Dahlia - “A lot of the data on here seems to largely exclude the effects of socialization and RASISM. Yes I said it.”

Yes you said it but you didnt spell it correctly. Normally I would regard that as a secondary issue but in the context of your 120 IQ I think it might be telling us something.

63

Posted by commenter on December 03, 2007, 09:16 AM | #

People like Nick Tamiroff should be sterilized.

64

Posted by Wilhelm Steffen on October 03, 2008, 12:09 PM | #

I am white, my wife is Japanese, we have two kids both studying for MA in math. Something that I would have never attempted. So much for anecdotal evidence…

As for the principle of purety vs race mixing, can someone guide me to how “pure” is defined here? Pure in regard to what? Unless you assume that races were *created* in a fixed form, isn´t any local population the result of long-term mixing? E.g., typical native Dutch look different from typical French, although both would be considered “white” here, wouldn´t they? Typical Japanese look different from typical Chinese (whites don´t see the difference, but the natives do), so at what point do you consider mixing so relevant that you would talk of hybrids?
And conversely, how many generations of mixing would it take before you regard it as a new race of its own?

(Incidentally, many Japanese consider themselves a unique race in their own right, unrelated to anything else on the planet. They are horrified at the idea of being lumped together with Chinese and Koreans. There is a whole sub-culture of literature in Japan about the subject, called nihonjin-ron.)

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 03, 2008, 03:03 PM | #

No one here talks about pure races, Wilhelm.  They don’t want existing Euro races replaced with something else. 

We don’t traffic in the notion of “racial purity.” 

“many Japanese consider themselves a unique race in their own right, unrelated to anything else on the planet. [...] There is a whole sub-culture of literature in Japan about the subject, called nihonjin-ron.”  (—Wilhelm Steffen)

That’s a sign of Japanese societal mental health.  Jews have the same thing — some years ago the Jews completely flipped, went berserk, when a scientific paper claimed they were genetically related to Palestinians.  They tried to punish the researchers, they forced the editors of the journal that published the article to recant and apologize, and they went around confiscating all extant copies of the offending issue of that journal from libraries, stores, etc., and destroyed them.

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 03, 2008, 06:50 PM | #

“That’s a sign of Japanese societal mental health.”  (—my comment)

—Meaning a sign of good mental health (in case anyone was interpreting it differently).

It’s sign of good mental health in the Jews also. 

What Euros display is a sign of bad mental health:  our ethnic rivals (the Jews) ally with certain backstabbing élites, clueless women voters, organized homosexuals, organized non-whites the Jews have already let in in excessive numbers, etc., to force down our throats the notion that the world would be so much better off with our race exterminated, and instead of rebelling we eagerly accept their recommendation, marching in lock-step in a joyous embrace of our own genocide.  That’s a sign of bad mental health.  A sign of good mental health would have been to have done as the Jews did when someone tried to say they were related to a race they consider sub-human:  go berserk.  Going berserk and rebelling would have shown we were still mentally intact.

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Posted by Fred Scrooby on October 03, 2008, 07:00 PM | #

Excuse me, “A sign of good mental health would have been to do as the Jews did” (not “to have done”)

68

Posted by Mixes r F'ing Hot on March 25, 2009, 01:22 PM | #

You people are pretty narrow-minded. Where do y’all live, Kentucky?

Mixes are f**king hot!!! Even George Clooney’s very gorgeous ex-girlfriend looks mixed.

69

Posted by Jo on March 21, 2010, 11:12 PM | #

Wow, I can’t believe you are actually trying to prove how “flawed” mixed races are. This is disgraceful. You and Hitler would have made great friends.

70

Posted by Squirrelly Girly on April 05, 2010, 01:15 PM | #

This is ‘study’ is the most ridiculous load of racist crap I’ve ever read.  People have been cross breeding for centuries.  Your obese white woman and black man stereo-type is laughable… there are plenty of big beautiful black women with black men.  The USA has a high obesity rate in general, we’re seeing more obese children (of all races), why didn’t you conclude that it’s a food related with high fat contents, corn syrups, preseratives, inactive lifestyles, etc… instead you blame it on a racial thing!  You are obviously trying to get people to buy into this racist crap with some flimsy ‘data’.

Gah… so disgusting!

71

Posted by The One, Who Knows on April 15, 2010, 11:24 AM | #

Mixed-race people are simply stronger, fitter, smarter and generally much better than monoracial people.  They live longer and have better health, It is scientifically proven. You just have to accept it and stop being envious.

One day there will be no races and therefore no fights. Mindset like yours won’t exist, because there won’t be any reasons to be a racist. We all hope this day will come very soon.

We all belong to a single race - THE HUMAN RACE! MIXED-RACE IS JUST BETTER, REMEMBER!

72

Posted by Fred Scrooby on April 15, 2010, 02:04 PM | #

“there are many studies confirming the genetic distinctness of the different races”  (—my comment above)

I dislike citing “studies” for this purpose, as the division of humanity into distinct races was known, was obvious, and was absolutely incontrovertible a thousand, five thousand, ten thousand years before Aristotle but citing “studies” is the going thing now, so I go with the flow and do it.  In fact no one needs “studies” to affirm the existence of races.  If “studies” exist, they’re mere icing on the cake.  They’re not needed but OK, fine, if they are what impress the most, might as well cite them if they épatent les imbéciles.

73

Posted by Didi on April 16, 2010, 07:43 AM | #

I find this article on race mixing laughable, I believe its not one race that makes an individual smart but the motivation and faith within the individual smart. Over the generation different cultures starting from Africa (where the first humans came from) to Asia to Europe and America have influenced us and the world for what it is. The author of this article claims mixed kids especially those who have a white mother and a black father have skin problems such as acne and other stuff well I have fair skinned freckled friends who are more prone to acne, pimples, sunburn, skin cancer compared to darker shade skinned people. If Caucasians are perceived as the smarter, clean and pure race then why is it that every country they have colonised (especially the perpetrators under the English colonial rule) have brought in infectious diseases which has decimated the Native population? I admit every race and as human being as their faults too. if two parents that happen to be smart offcourse their offspring is more likely to be smart since they look up to their parents and become highly motivated by them especially the environment they come from. As for Natives Americans one has to look at their history, events and environment that has shaped them. I genuinely belief it is the circumstances, events and environment that highly influences an individual but it is up to us allow it occur and to choose our path. We as individuals have to be stronger and not allow things to bug us especially where out past is concerned we have learn from it and be stronger and at the end nothing will ever matter we have to believe in ourselves to reach our goals.

74

Posted by Didi on April 16, 2010, 08:06 AM | #

Sorry but I genuinly dont believe this survey as a matter of fact I have lost faith in todays surveys since they can be easily manipulated or dont hold genuine proof of what the question is referring too, you can go to the most crime invested location and the results will differ to that of a safe environmental friendly location. There was a survey taken I read how adultery and cheating is very common in New York does that make all people in New York area to be cheaters???? Because it has something to do with their genes too?? or is it an individuals influence or will to be cheaters?? Was this race mixing thing even scientifically proven??

“ANS abnormalities are implicated in behavior problems such as excessive aggression, [7-11] atopy (a group of diseases such as asthma, skin problems such as eczema and psoriasis, allergies, runny nose, sinusitis, migraine), [12-16] headaches, [17-22] and a variety of health problems (see any textbook of medical physiology). Further, damaging some portions of the brain in rats increases the likelihood of cocaine or stimulant dependence, [23, 24] and something similar undoubtedly applies to humans, too.  Besides, a number of brain abnormalities are common to both depression and drug dependence, [25] and substance use is more prevalent among mentally ill individuals. [26”

How is this related to race mixing??? it common logic if you have cocaine or crack obsessed parents it will affect the kid.

75

Posted by Didi on April 16, 2010, 08:17 AM | #

“Alternatively, since part of the ANS deals with stressors, chronic social stressors could themselves cause a number of health problems.  In this regard, the data in Tables 2 and 3 do not vary as a function of whether the adolescent is living with one or two parents or as a function of family education, which can act as a proxy for socioeconomic status.  Being teased/ostracized for being mixed race also requires consideration, but it cannot be argued that during the time period of the childhood years of the Americans examined, a substantial number of the mixed-race children would have experienced ostracism/discrimination due to being mixed race, especially since a number of them would have grown up in large metropolitan areas, which are known to be more diverse and tolerant.  Moreover, the general preference in the African-American community is to prefer African-Americans with lighter skin, [27, 28] and lighter-skinned African-Americans also tend to have higher IQs than their darker counterparts (Table 4, [29]), which should reduce academic stress.  In other words, black/white-mixed individuals, who would typically be assigned and raised as African-Americans, are not necessarily really worse off compared to their darker counterparts with respect to being ostracized/marginalized.  Additionally, given white preference for Caucasian features and to the extent that Asian-Americans are envious of some of the facial features of whites, Asian/white-mixed individuals are less apt to be teased for their facial features than the less mixed Asians-Americans.  And once again, there is no proof that struggle with identity formation explains Udry’s data.  Also, the typical mixed-race adolescent with a white parent should have no doubts as to whether he is white; he wouldn’t look anything like a white person.  Further, the data in Tables 2 and 3 do not vary as a function of age, which is relevant because the mixed-race individuals should have resolved their racial identity by their late teens.  “

I Find this one really laughbale smile especially the sheer stupidity of this so called “research” that has been placed here.  Especially the one that says kids born out of european and asian parents are less teased cause their caucasian features are more desired??? lmfao. If race mixing especially where the union between an african american and white female is detrimental to the child then how on earth did Obama made his way on becoming a president?? you know why?? cause he strived for what he believed in.

76

Posted by Lurker on April 16, 2010, 11:17 PM | #

Didi - I’m sure you mean well, but your comments are at the level one would expect if you had never really thought about the issues, or only discussed them in a Facebook style echo chamber.

77

Posted by Q on April 17, 2010, 04:47 PM | #

It is evident that when it comes to the nature vs nurture dichotomy, DiDi has been overly exposed to the nature branch.

78

Posted by Q on April 17, 2010, 04:53 PM | #

correction:

DiDi has been overly exposed to the NURTURE branch.

79

Posted by Slightly sarcastic on April 17, 2010, 07:19 PM | #

Didi is right.

Race, ethnicity, morality, family, gender, language and religion are all social constructs and must be abolished. This is inevitable if humanity wants to go on. Why people form families to raise children? Is this observed somewhere else in nature? Nowhere! Why many people are prejudiced against homosexuals? There are many examples of homosexual behaviour in animals! Why human language is so complex? This is not observed anyhere else in nature. Why people from different ethnicities fight each other? This is not observed anywhere else, except in some mammals, who group themselves in flocks and fight for territory and resources.

Dogs mix. Dogs are living organisms. Dogs do not show preference for their own breed. Humans are living organisms, so they should mix and not show preference for their race. Dogs bark. Humans should bark too.

(end of sarcasm)

I wanted to illustrate and ironize some common fallacies, which liberals/leftists/marxists use.

80

Posted by EA Steve on April 18, 2010, 01:56 AM | #

If race mixing especially where the union between an african american and white female is detrimental to the child then how on earth did Obama made his way on becoming a president?? you know why?? cause he strived for what he believed in.

This is not the site for fallacies, Didi!

Obama got to be president, thanks to affirmative action and the fawning media.

81

Posted by Slightly sarcastic on April 18, 2010, 07:15 AM | #

Fred Scrooby, I agree with most of your logic, however, I’ve always wondered why Jews seem to want to subvert the White race only? Is it because most Christians are White(and Jews hate Christians - I know this from personal Jewish friends)?

82

Posted by Guessedworker on April 18, 2010, 11:08 AM | #

Do you mean this column, Fred?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/18/opinion/18rich.html

Or maybe this one?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/opinion/28rich.html

83

Posted by Slightly sarcastic on April 20, 2010, 06:01 PM | #

Interestingly, I’ve noticed that the race-mixing oriented propaganda is directed much more at women, than at men. Is that probably because women tend to have less-prominent “feel of belonging” to a group?

Men are traditionally the leaders of the “tribe”(or any social group), they have stronger sense of belonging. Women don’t. Today’s society is much less patriarchal(again, thanks to the Jews - psychoanalysis, cultural anthropology, feminism - all Jews-dominated ideologies), so that may be a contributing factor?

84

Posted by Lurker on April 23, 2010, 06:50 AM | #

Interestingly, I’ve noticed that the race-mixing oriented propaganda is directed much more at women

Crudely speaking the women of a defeated tribe are taken by the men of the victorious tribe. I suspect thats hardwired into women to some extent, a survival strategy. You can switch that equation around as well. The tribe that lets its women outbreed is losing, the one that doesnt is winning.

Eg In the UK muslim men have children with/marry white women. Their genes are getting into our population. Muslim women hardly ever marry out or have children with men from outside Islam. Our genes are not getting into theirs. So each generation, white women raise some mixed kids, muslim women only raise unmixed muslim kids. Each generation our population is alittle more similar to theirs genetically. Rinse and repeat for a few generations….

85

Posted by EA Steve on April 24, 2010, 05:26 AM | #

Note:  the Negroes are not the victorious tribe.

I liked your comment, Fred Scrooby! The Negroes and Mestizoes did not earn our White women. Although many White women treat them as if they had militarily defeated us and are “more masculine,” the non-Black and non-Brown elites are the ones who distributed our women to them!

In a healthy environment without nasty elites, we Whites should reserve our women for ourselves! smile

86

Posted by EA Steve on April 24, 2010, 05:28 AM | #

I intended to use a smile. smile

87

Posted by Rachel F on August 12, 2010, 06:26 PM | #

This has to be the most ignorant study/research I’ve come across yet? What’s all the obsession with race mixing? Who are you studying? Where are you getting your cases from?

This is ridiculous!  Get over it, people of different colors fuck and spawn! LOL

88

Posted by Jen on August 12, 2010, 06:38 PM | #

Rachel F, when you choose a dog, do you pick out of a pure breed or a mongrel?

89

Posted by Osmond Perdue Portefore on September 01, 2010, 01:43 AM | #

In the beginning, there was but one race, and it originated in Africa.  Outwardly these first people did not look Black, White, Asian, etc., but rather a mixture of all.  The races were create via what was perceived as attractive traits within that original one race by different groups.  The groups stuck with these traits and suprise, the traits became more and more defined as generations past.  The groups became, what we call, races.

One can take a male and female rat, both white, and eventually, through breading, get a black rat, if that’s their aim, or visa versa.  True, it would take less time with a brown rat…either way.

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