Jack Donovan: ‘manly’ suicidal faggot to the right

Posted by Alex Zeka on Sunday, 18 July 2010 16:34.

Do you know who Jack Donovan is?

He is a frequent contributor at “Alternative Right”, a sort of mainstream radical right site. He is also according to his on-site bio:

a poor, blue-collar man made out of muscle and blood who moonlights as an advocate for the resurgence of patriarchal, paleo-masculine values among the Men of the West. He is a contributor to The Spearhead, as well as the author of Androphilia and co-author of Blood Brotherhood and Other Rites of Male Alliance. Mr. Donovan lives and works in Portland, Oregon.

What’s this book “Androphilia”? I am not sure how to put this politely so I won’t bother to, it is a tome which suggests that masculine men should embrace homosexuality. Not that this snazzly named Androphilia is precisely the same thing of course. Here’s how a highly sympathetic interviewer characterized it:

Across the desk is a man of mien. Could be an executive, a cop, a sergeant, a professor, a tradesman, or a union boss. But let’s suppose he is a lawyer. This man is not your father. You profess to hate this man, this boss, this authority. Perhaps just as you hate your father, for the usual specific reasons. But there is work to be done, and you are confronted, or seduced, by his command presence. A spell. The man looks you in the eye, outlines the task at hand, and your role. And it is understood, somehow, even as you are bewildered by your deference. You will rise to this occasion . . .  because.

Huge difference there - gays are of course all pederasts, and Jack Donovan apparently likes mature men. ‘Cos he’s manly, you know. And butch. And…stuff like that.

When this fails, and he can’t convince masculine un-pc men to turn gay, he has another suggestion for them: suicide.

 

This extraordinary article includes the following even more extraordinary quote:

But it truly is a grave error to discourage stoicism in men, simply because it forces some of them to shut down and eventually kill themselves. The alternative—a nation of weepy, hyper-sensitive, impotent men who share far too much—has much graver consequences.

Here, he is contrasting sharing your feelings with committing suicide, to the advantage of suicide. Gods, if you really can’t go on living without abasing yourself in public, please abase yourself. The most honourable man in the world is of no use to anyone dead. Anyway, this choice is inane, as JD himself very well knows. As he himself writes, honourable suicide is for the most masculine, and public weepiness is for the least. If the masculine men to whom JD is addressing this bizarre death appeal take it seriously, then all that will happen is that they will commit suicide, and the hordes of Oprah-wannabes will continue to share their feelings.

You do get the sense that JD’s main aim is to find ways for masculine, un-pc men to remove themselves from the gene-pool. Or else to make them hate women and to remove themselves to what he calls ‘homosocial’ environments. (That’s different from homosexual and different from androphile by the way. Yay, yet another way to not spread white genes). Not the most worthy goal in the world to my mind, but then I’m not an androphile so I’m probably missing something.

I don’t think there’s a better way to sum JD up than this quote from the suicide thread:

, for one, support the fine faggotry on display by hyper creepy freaks like Donavan.

Why should all of the freaks here be standard issue black and jew haters with nary a nocel thought in their heads? No, no, we need a VARIETY of freaks. A vibrant diversity of freaks, if you will.

Hear hear then. Three cheers for “manly” suicidal faggots. Thank you Alternative Right for offering us this, er, alternative.

JD is likely to turn people away from the radical right. Even if he doesn’t, his main interests are mature men, homosocial environments, and ‘honorable’ suicide. Can anyone explain to me why Alternative Right is promoting this ‘manly’ collection of homosexual and suicidal neuroses?

 



Comments:


1

Posted by Evan on Sun, 18 Jul 2010 17:28 | #

Richard Spencer had a relationship with JD in the past.  That’s really the only reason.  Spencer and the other editors aren’t very impressed by JD’s writing.


2

Posted by notuswind on Sun, 18 Jul 2010 18:08 | #

According to Wikipedia, Jack Donovan was an ordained priest of the Church of Satan as recently as 2009.  One wonders what to make of such things.


3

Posted by notuswind on Sun, 18 Jul 2010 18:34 | #

To followup on my previous comment.

Perhaps JD was just crudely expressing what JB told Sunic in his VoR interview - that the right-wing of our society contains within it the [Satanic] dark side of European civilization, which most ordinary people fear.


4

Posted by uh on Sun, 18 Jul 2010 20:30 | #

Can anyone explain to me why Alternative Right is promoting this ‘manly’ collection of homosexual and suicidal neuroses?

Probably on the unarticulated and mistaken assumption that if an activist for the right has some quality of value to the left, it will serve as a gateway to introduction of right ideas to the left, or “shield” the right from some criticism (“Look—we like the gays too!”). Which is why Troy Southgate, for example, thinks he’s clever for calling his little idea-club National Anarchism. This also explains the entire “no gauche ni droit” meme. It’s also just novel, and the name of it is alternative right.


5

Posted by Lurker on Sun, 18 Jul 2010 22:49 | #

When this fails, and he can’t convince masculine un-pc men to turn gay

I thought that was a common gay fantasy, that either real men are gay but supressing it - or else they can be ‘turned’.

gays are of course all pederasts

Not convinced thats true, especially not if so many of them are hoping for a firefighter or cowboy to come and sweep them off their feet.


6

Posted by Captainchaos on Sun, 18 Jul 2010 22:49 | #

Uh sums up nicely what are my thoughts as well. 

Also, tellingly, Richard Hoste, alleged libertarian, has lately flirted with Islam as potentially the lesser of all evils consistent with White racial survival - a religion which demands a way of life not very in keeping with libertarian principles.  What gives Mr. Hoste, fascism doesn’t accord with libertarianism either, and would have the virtue of delivering to us control of our racial destiny once again, so why not embrace that?  You know you want to - let moralistic hand-wringing on the part of the English be no obstacle.


7

Posted by Captainchaos on Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:07 | #

Also fascism holds out the promise of Final Victory over our eternal enemies, the Jews.  Something that cannot exactly be said of libertarianism, and “ontological nationalism.”


8

Posted by notuswind on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 00:03 | #

Probably on the unarticulated and mistaken assumption that if an activist for the right has some quality of value to the left, it will serve as a gateway to introduction of right ideas to the left

It all makes sense now.  Donovan’s queerness, and blue collar musculature, will attract the Left to the virtues of the anti-egalitarian right like moths to the flame.

or “shield” the right from some criticism (“Look—we like the gays too!”)

Or rather, Donovan’s queerness will serve as an ideological shield from the Left calling us racist.  Brilliant!


9

Posted by anonymous on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 01:00 | #

Also, tellingly, Richard Hoste, alleged libertarian, has lately flirted with Islam as potentially the lesser of all evils consistent with White racial survival - a religion which demands a way of life not very in keeping with libertarian principles.

That Richard Hoste is of Arab descent might explain his flirtation with Islam.


10

Posted by Alex Zeka on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 02:38 | #

Richard Spencer had a relationship with JD in the past.

Wtf? Is every writer on AR gay? Well, that answers my question anyway. But the comments threads on JD’s posts are by and large positive. Is Spencer posting all the comments with various sock puppets to keep his ex-lover’s self-esteem up?


11

Posted by Alex Zeka on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 03:12 | #

JD is meant as a shield against accusations of sexism? Given that he’s written some of the most uncomplimentary things about women, I find that dubious. The blue collar associations make more sense, but then why not just get a straight blue collar writer, maybe even one that actually has something in common with the average blue collar worker?

Seriously, does anyone think that a freakshow like JD makes the right look more respectable? Even if you accept the need for gay and other minority members, surely JD is about as bad as you can find.

(Also, does that mean that affirmative action now exists on the far right? That’s funny beyond words).


12

Posted by Alex Zeka on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 03:15 | #

One last thing. Can anyone remember who came up with the dictum that: “any organisation that is not explicitly right-wing will become left-wing” (quoting from memory)? I think it was an American neocon but I can’t remember who. This might be a good example of it.


13

Posted by Lurker on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 05:33 | #

Alex - I thought it was Robert Conquest, looked it up…


Conquests’s Three Laws of Politics:

1. Everyone is conservative about what he knows best.

2. Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left wing.

3. The simplest way to explain the behavior of any bureaucratic organization is to assume that it is controlled by a cabal of its enemies


14

Posted by jeff on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 06:53 | #

Matt Parrott thinks Silver is a concern troll.


15

Posted by marlowe on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:21 | #

That quotation is from John O’Sullivan, once the editor of National Reveiw.  It’s “O’Sullivan’s Law”.


16

Posted by Gorboduc on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:22 | #

No wonder I feel like Cassandra here!

Some time ago I expressed wonderment at the Gay macho cult-wear for the barricades advertised by one Kai Murros actually here, right here, on this very site! And I was staggered at the encouragement he seemed to be receiving . . .

Once or twice I’ve made noises about “Aryanism” and its close relative Satanism.

Call to the Old Gods in the woods and the demons will come in disguise…

A partial answer to Alex’s last question is brilliantly supplied by Robert Conquest’s three laws - thanks, Lurker.

Culturally, the New Right is far to the old Old Old Left. You’ve only got to look at Bowden’s absurd and ugly paintings and videos to realise that.

I suppose that sort of thing is only to be expected from people who’ve made a radical and public rejection of Christianity, and have thus opened themselves to all sorts of malign influences: in the words misattributed to Chesterton, “Those that desert Christianity don’t just believe in nothing, they’ll believe in anything”.

Freud was right about ONE thing, that homosexualism is a death cult. A few years ago the Guardian did an article (I’ll try and trace it) on homosexual contact magazines in which men with HIV offered to infect others so they could die the “love-death” (shades of Wagner!) and those desirous to die sought infection.


17

Posted by Alex Zeka on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:05 | #

Re: Kai Murros. He’s the National Bolshevik, along with his equally puffed up friend von Hoff. They’re main interests are military uniforms and rehabilitating Communism, plus some weird stuff about German anti-Nazi youth movements. It all sounds quite homoerotic when you you read it, but that is partly because von Hoff sounds overwrought no matter what he’s writing about.

I understand that there are some rumors that von Hoff is gay. There was also a gay WN who made a huge deal out of space exploration. Seems most of the heroic-style WNs are gay, which (and the fact that other WNs work with them) suggests that nothing is immune to minority outreach. I wouldn’t be surprised if the WNs who want us to breed elves are gay too.

Re: the threee laws. I’ve googled, and it is Conquest’s laws, altho’ O’Sullivan was who I first read it from. This is a good example of the second law, altho’ I’d've thought that a race realist site like AR would be explicitly right-wing. I don’t really know much about the people behind it - was there a conscious plan to reach out to the left?


18

Posted by Dasein on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:47 | #

“any organisation that is not explicitly right-wing will become left-wing”

Is there not also a dictum (from Linder?) along the lines:  “any organisation that does not exclude jews will end up being run by them”.

Also, does that mean that affirmative action now exists on the far right?

Their editorial board has 2 jews, 1 likely Arab, and at least 1 faggot.  I think we’ve got a case for disparate impact.


19

Posted by notuswind on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:03 | #

Their editorial board has 2 jews, 1 likely Arab, and at least 1 faggot.  I think we’ve got a case for disparate impact.

[roars laughing]

You owe me a new keyboard for that one Dasein.


20

Posted by Gorboduc on Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:08 | #

I like the bit about Donovan being made of muscle and blood.

What, no bones, flesh, brains? Hmm.

The Kai/Constantine double act or love duet was playing live to an audience here at 24 September 2009.

I felt it was pretty cheesy then, and said so.

I was surprised at the amount of support the Murros gay-revolutionary-chic programme received.

It still is pretty cheesy.

Certainly true that some gays like dressing up in German officers’s hats.

Alex: you talk (06.05 pm) of the “heroic”. I suppose the trouble is that they’ve defined themselves as heroes: that they see themselves as appropriately-clad comic-book fantasy figures: that their totally inadequate notion of the heroic doesn’t include the chivalrous.

Extend the three-rules bit about bureaucratic organisations being probably controlled by THEIR enemies to include a bit about self-proclaimed ELITES of the “RIGHT” being constituted by OUR enemies.


21

Posted by cladrastis on Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:19 | #

Androphilia, A Manifesto is a polemic directed at the gay community and contemporary gay culture. In Androphilia, Donovan employs the word androphilia to distinguish his own experience of homosexual desire, which he defines as a “Mars/Mars” attraction between two men, from the label “gay” which, Donovan claims, is inseparable from connotations of effeminacy and “a whole cultural and a political movement that promotes anti-male feminism, victim mentality, and leftist politics.” Donovan uses the term androphilia to emphasize masculinity in both the object and the subject of male homosexual desire, and rejects the gender nonconformity that he sees in gay identity. Donovan advocates withdrawal from the gay community and mainstream gay culture, the rejection of the label “gay,” for those men who feel limited by it, and advises those men to concentrate on developing friendships with heterosexual men and to explore traditional male gender roles.

In an essay separate from the manifesto itself, entitled “Agreements Between Men,” Donovan makes an aesthetic argument against same-sex marriage, opting for more private arrangements and expressions of bonds, inspired by male friendships instead of heterosexual romance. When asked about legal bans on same-sex marriage, Donovan clarified that he was “sympathetic to some sort of legal arrangement” but “against same-sex marriage, using the word marriage,” on the grounds that marriage is a cultural institution with, “too much historical baggage.”[2]

Some critics have argued that Donovan tends to make too many “harsh, negative generalizations” about the gay community and have described his delivery in Androphilia as “alienating.”[3] Others have implied that Donovan wants to push gay men back into “the closet.”[4] One reviewer, writing for Canadian gay newspaper Xtra, compared Donovan to a character in a John Rechy novel, who “puts a kitten in a brown paper bag and drowns it in his bathtub” in an effort to “validate his masculinity.”[5]

Mark Thompson, gay author and former senior editor of The Advocate (1975–1994), agreed with some of Donovan’s critiques of the gay community “in principle,” writing that, “Our popular gay male culture is inundated with countless examples of gay men living shallow, addicted lives – one of many among a tribe of lost ‘boys’ who live only for their own burnished image until it all becomes too late.” Thompson also acknowledged that he would “be among the first to clock the egregious ways of what [he has] long called ‘Gay Inc.’ and its nasty habits of siphoning hard-won dollars into self-perpetuating bureaucracies.” However, Thompson called for unity and found Donovan’s statement that the victimization and oppression of homosexual males was for the most part “an illusion” promoted by gay activists to raise money to be “disingenuous,” citing various examples of what Thompson believed to be serious challenges faced by a wide range of GLBT people. According to Thompson, Androphilia’s message was really only relevant for a “relatively narrow swath of white, middle-class gays.”[6]

Queer literature reviewer Richard LaBonte advised readers against writing off Androphilia completely, stating that the book was “a heartfelt argument that ‘the gay identity’ is too sissy, too socialist, and way too libertine for this man-loving man.” LaBonte compared Donovan to Andrew Sullivan, Bruce Bawer, and Daniel Harris and identified Androphilia’s message as “an extreme manifestation of their kind of stereo-phobia.” [7]

Other writers have applauded Androphilia or embraced the label of “androphile” wholeheartedly. Nick Pell, who interviewed Donovan for Portland, Oregon’s Just Out, wrote that Androphilia was “relevant and timely” and would soon be “required reading for young homosexual men looking for an alternative to disco balls, rainbow flags and celebrity gossip.”[8] Matt Moody wrote in his review for the San Diego–based Gay and Lesbian Times that “finally, finally, another gay man is advocating what I’ve believed for years: the belief that men who admire or love men should be more responsible, not give into the effeminate gay cultural fad, avoid the personal, career, and social pitfalls common to those who live in a completely emasculated world, and build stronger ties with heterosexual men who share common interests.”[9] Homoerotic fetish artist Drubskin described Androphilia as a “liberating read,” and wrote approvingly of Donovan’s challenges to “old thinking,” “victim mentality” and “the prejudices and castrating influences of Feminism and The Gay Movement.”[10]

And the literati at MR suggest….?


22

Posted by Alex Zeka on Tue, 20 Jul 2010 03:00 | #

I suppose the trouble is that they’ve defined themselves as heroes: that they see themselves as appropriately-clad comic-book fantasy figures: that their totally inadequate notion of the heroic doesn’t include the chivalrous.

Yeh, when I said heroic I meant in terms of how they see themselves, not how I see them. I think its certainly true that WN is a sort of costume drama for a lot of them, somewhat akin to fantasy role-playing, with which it even shares some imagery. I’m not sure what you mean by ‘chivalrous’ - I think the von Hoff tendency would take that and turn it into another costume drama (cavalry charges at gov’t buildings, perhaps? Hey, if Don Quixote could do it). The main problem with them is that they seem to prize appearances above reality, and seem to think that as long as Whites are being assertive, etc it doesn’t matter if we’re being replaced, etc.

Their editorial board has 2 jews, 1 likely Arab, and at least 1 faggot.

One faggot? One faggot’s not much fun. Two faggots, JD and Spencer, is a lot more like it.


23

Posted by mcbain on Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:05 | #

The only blue collar on Jack Donovan is his bruised sphincter.


24

Posted by Nat on Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:15 | #

Actually Donovan is an articulate commentator.

“JD is likely to turn people away from the radical right.”

Well if that’s the case then the radical right are a bunch of reactionary intellectual weaklings.


25

Posted by Fade's latest meltdown on Wed, 21 Jul 2010 04:41 | #

Hunter Wallace/FadeTheButcher/Prozium/Scimitar/Daedalus/Klaas Ebbe/Feyd Harkonnen/Njection is thumping his chest and morphing into a mixture of Jim Giles, Alex Linder, and Harold Covington.  He is cursing intellectuals and calling for a hardcore nucleus with “physical prowess” and “actual balls” to take action. 

“Wallace” has figured out the problem: white nationalists are a bunch of middle class pussies with no “character”.  If you don’t go scream at Jeffrey Imm in a public park, you’re pathetic and have no “character”.


26

Posted by Rollory on Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:31 | #

Donovan has written some things that are true and accurate.  However on general principles it is unwise for anyone traditionally-minded to take advice from a homosexual; regardless of what his intentions are, or what he thinks they are, he can’t help but drift off course - that’s the homosexual nature at work.  The men’s right’s movement in general (which is in other ways strongly oriented against liberalism) seems to have quite a few pro-homosexual advocates laced through it, unfortunately.

As for Prozium, I stopped taking him seriously when he had his Tetragrammaton meltdown a couple years back.  Anybody who goes so completely nuts once, will do so again, probably at the worst possible moment.  It doesn’t help that he doesn’t seem to be able to think critically about (for example) Kunstler’s various doom predictions, and _why_ they might or might not be accurate, instead of simply judging them at face value.

Regarding character, activism at this stage doesn’t matter.  There needs to be a critical mass of the general white population that is receptive to a potentially revolutionary message before anything of the sort will make any headway.  That requires much greater social problems and disruption than are yet present: ordinary people need to be feeling it regularly at the dinner table, and more immediate concerns than American Idol or X’s Got Talent.  The iron is not yet hot, striking it now won’t accomplish anything.


27

Posted by Lurker on Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:56 | #

There needs to be a critical mass of the general white population that is receptive to a potentially revolutionary message before anything of the sort will make any headway.

The more people who are switched on the better, whatever form activism takes.

It would be great if site like MR could link to other like minded sites and synergy might arise, especially a site like antiwhitemedia.blogspot.com which might, in its own small way wake a few people up, if it had more content and more visitors. If only hyperlinking had been invented!


28

Posted by Gorboduc on Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:37 | #

Amazing, the number of footwear and handbag ads that have appeared on MR very recently - about 20 since I last looked in about 10 hrs ago.

Are they trying to catch Donovan and Murros fans?


29

Posted by Dasein on Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:25 | #

notuswind,

Maybe you can take that up with Fred.  He still owes me one for this comment. smile


30

Posted by Gudmund on Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:33 | #

He is cursing intellectuals and calling for a hardcore nucleus with “physical prowess” and “actual balls” to take action.
>Fade’s latest meltdown

Yes, his anti-intellectual turn of late is tiresome.  For example, see his tirades on Spengler.  I can tell from what he wrote that he didn’t bother to read Spengler, or if he did he failed to understand it.  Frankly I’d challenge his misconceptions but his moderators are known for deleting comments they don’t like so I won’t bother.  In any case, the site showed promise last year but has seriously gone downhill.


31

Posted by Lurker on Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:26 | #

Ah, I see MR now links to antiwhitemedia. Yay!


32

Posted by John Walters on Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:56 | #

I wouldn’t be surprised if the WNs who want us to breed elves are gay too.

Ahem.

Women like elves.

http://uncontroversial.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/oorp-the-drama-begins/

http://uncontroversial.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/oorp-2-the-drama-continues/

http://uncontroversial.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/womenlovedressingupaselves/


Women like vampires.

http://uncontroversial.wordpress.com/2010/07/22/elusive-wapiti-talks-women/

If playing to the elf and vampire fashions gets more women interested in whiteness, then the elf-lovers and the vampire-fangirls will outbreed the other whites.


33

Posted by Alex Zeka on Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:33 | #

I don’t know if the poster above is being ironic. If not - do women like men who like elves/vampires?

“Hello, I am a grown man whose main interest is breeding elves. Wouldn’t it be cool to breed elves? Well, we can’t do that, but breeding white people is the next best thing, and we all know how to do that, if ya know what I mean.” Please, please, if you’re being serious, approach a woman with your elf-breeding schtick and video the results. Then I can post it just to make it even more clear that breeding elves is not a good way to sell white survival.


34

Posted by The decline of Occidental Dissent on Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:17 | #

“It’s time to kick the intellectuals in the balls”


35

Posted by John on Fri, 23 Jul 2010 20:12 | #

Andrew Yeoman wrote that. I haven’t liked him or trusted his judgment him since he posted the following petulant response to Hunter’s post where he called someone gloating about the “decline of the wasp” a kike. But I wonder about Hunter for not telling him to go write somewhere else instead of editing the offending post and effusively and publicly apologising. Sure seemed strange to me.

Hunter,

As I’m sure you know I’m an advocate of not using language like that in my day to day or political discourse and I am very disappointed in the language you use to describe people with a religion or opinion different from your own. I’m concerned that the language you choose reflects badly on my contributions to OD and the racial separatist movement on the whole. This is nothing personal but I think that others will assume I sympathize with this attitude if I continue to contribute to this blog. So with that in mind I request that comment and similar sentiments not be allowed in the future or I will cease my contribution to OD.


36

Posted by The decline of Occidental Dissent on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 03:42 | #

“Hunter Wallace”: “Should intellectuals be kicked in the balls? Probably.”

“Wallace”: “Reading this effete horse shit makes me want buy a six pack, get in the nearest Ford F150, and go ride dirt roads.”


37

Posted by The decline of Occidental Dissent on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 08:04 | #

Trainspotter nails it: “This website, which had so much promise at one point, is fast becoming an embarrassment. It’s worse than publishing childish drivel, though that would be bad enough. It is counseling that which has provably, demonstrably led to our defeat and dispossession. If this is a passing frustration, that’s one thing. I hope that to be the case, but frankly, I’m not all that confident. Increasingly, it seems more concerned with cannibalizing the white nationalist movement, not promoting it.”

Trainspotter also suggests, “There’s something else going on here, but I’ll leave further speculation aside.”

I suspect what is going on here is related to the turmoil at TOQ earlier this year.

Significant animosity has developed between Greg Johnson and Hunter Wallace, as evidenced by their spats on recent threads at OD.

Guessedworker has commented on the “Regnery circus” a couple of times.  It appears last year there was a secret conference in Atlanta, with a secrecy agreement, attended by figures associated with The Occidental Quarterly, The Occidental Observer, and Occidental Dissent.  The TOQ/TOO/OD crowd has not divulged any information about this conference.

In mid-April this year, TOQ Online stopped being updated.  On May 6, Trainspotter asked “Hunter Wallace” what was going on with TOQ and said transparency was vital to the movement.  “Wallace” declined to comment, but said there was a “larger shit storm within the movement” related to the TOQ Online situation.  “Wallace” said he would be flying to Austin, TX the next day for a meeting to discuss the future of TOQ.  “Wallace” said a statement on the matter would probably be released within a few days.  By May 13, no information or statement had been released, and Will Williams noted, “Transparent, this crowd is not. Truth means little to them, whoever they are. Being ‘positive’ is what really counts.”

On May 21, a statement by “Wallace” was posted on TOQ Online.  It stated that Kevin MacDonald had been appointed the new editor of TOQ and that “Wallace” had been appointed as the caretaker of TOQ Online.  The statement does not provide any explanation for the shakeup and turmoil at TOQ or the reason for Greg Johnson’s ouster.  Based on a post at VNN Forum, the statement by “Wallace” originally contained the statement, “I won’t comment on the causes of this soap opera. I’m exhausted with it. The important thing to do now is move forward and build upon all we have created.”  Apparently this was removed later.  No information about the “shit storm within the movement” and Texas meeting has been divulged by the TOQ/TOO/OD crowd.


38

Posted by The decline of Occidental Dissent on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 08:30 | #

Recent comments by Occidental Dissent administrator “H. Rock White” support the suspicion that the recent turn of events at OD relates to the TOQ turmoil.

Note that the Occidental Quarterly Article she is talking about is from a year ago, and since then the old management has been removed (they now run the ‘counter currents’ site). The Occidental Quarterly is now under the management of Kevin MacDonald, so we can expect a drastic increase in the quality of the articles there.

The pseudo-intellectual psychobabble of the counter-productive.com crowd doesn’t make a whole lot of sense or even have much of a point, and mainly consists of people trying to impress eachother by dredging up assorted quotes from obscure philosophers which are entirely irrelevant to today’s situation, much the same way that music scenesters try to outdo eachother by finding the most obscure bands and songs to proclaim that they listen to. Really, in some cases, it’s just idiots babbling nonsense to eachother and dressing it up in big words.


39

Posted by The decline of Occidental Dissent on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 08:33 | #

What is the reason for the secrecy of the TOQ/TOO/OD crowd?  Why do they refuse to provide any information or explanations about the shakeups and “shit storm within the movement”?  They most definitely want your money, but transparent they are not.


40

Posted by Gudmund on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 15:03 | #

Trainspotter also suggests, “There’s something else going on here, but I’ll leave further speculation aside.”
>the decline of OD

Fade’s associates at the Phora were those who knew him best.  And what did they say?  No good can come of associating with him, another meltdown is just around the corner, etc.  Well, they were right, weren’t they?  He changes his ideology every couple of weeks or so.  Now he’s Jim Giles, Junior.  It’s a shame that so many people of quality invested time and effort in commenting on the site when its main writer is a mentally unstable nutcase.  I had a sinking feeling earlier this year that th site was going to jump the shark, right around the time NN stopped commenting there was when I first felt it, and now I see that I was right.  From now on I’m going to avoid that site like the plague.  Enough is enough.  We’ve relied on people like this for too long, I’m absolutely jaded with the “movement” now.  GT is right when he says any future change will come from outside it.

At least we can be thankful that GW and the rest of the MR set are as sane and steady as most other racialist groups are whacky.  This is the one site I can think of that hasn’t suffered serial meltdowns.  Which is why I come back here, along with the fact that the commentariat here is eclectic and intelligent for the most part.


41

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 16:19 | #

Gudmund, you’re welcome.

My commentary is not welcome, apparently, at OD.  Following the heads-up from the gentleman above I typed a comment this morning GMT - like twelve hours ago - for the Intellectshuals thread, explaining why ideas are important and why the present analysers (but not producers) of ideas are failing the movement.

It was a perfectly acceptable comment, probably a little more demanding than most on the thread, but probably also possessed of a little more content.  It has not appeared.

Now, meltdown moments aside, there is nothing that HW could say which would cause me to keep him off the threads at MR.  He has a right to be heard, even if he is hawking unhinged drivel about kicking people in the vitals, or whatever.  Such vapidity can be easily disposed of.  But to censor lawful commentary for reasons, presumably, of convenience is to join with the enemies of the freedom we laud and seek to preserve, which freedom comes out of our very being.  It is literally essential to us Europeans.

OD, therefore, ceases to be a serious nationalist medium by my estimation.  It joins with Amren and OO in choosing what thinking people may speak, and therefore what we may read and ponder.  I shall not bother again with it.


42

Posted by Gussie Fink-Nottle on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 16:50 | #

Guessedworker, my understanding is that it’s a quirk of the site’s software that sometimes causes comments by first-time or irregular commenters will be held up for moderation.  I’d wager that your comment will appear soon, as it soon as it comes to someone’s attention in the moderation queue. 

If anything, Occidental Dissent’s problem is too little moderation and too much free speech.


43

Posted by Gussie Fink-Nottle on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 16:57 | #

If anything, Occidental Dissent’s problem is too little moderation and too much free speech.

Bloggers like H. Rock White don’t help the cause, either.


44

Posted by Gussie Fink-Nottle on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 17:12 | #

Guessedworker, I take back my comment from 8:50 PM.  I skimmed over the part where you said it was 12 hours ago that you posted.  Also, a highly critical comment from Greg Johnson has been deleted from that thread. 

Apparently OD’s MO is to give trolls and retards free reign while not allowing critical comments by intelligent commenters. 

Adios, Occidental Dissent, esta muerto.


45

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:09 | #

GFN,

After the Odessa debacle a number of us hoped HW would think better of putting himself through the ringer in public again.  He is a talented writer.  He could have served his people in that capacity with distinction, and caused harm to no one if and when the cycle of destructiveness returned.  He seems, though, to have a compulsion to push himself to the fore, guaranteeing that when the accident waiting to happen happens, it is as big and messy as possible.

Btw, so glad you resisted the temptation, should there have been any in some passing moment of weakness, to style yourself after the Sidcup bounder, black footer bags ‘n all.


46

Posted by Greg Johnson on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 07:52 | #

This is the post that got me banned from OD:

Here we go again.

Hunter, I am not your problem. If your organizing and activist efforts are fizzling, perhaps the fault does not lie in the diverting reading material I provide, or in the bad character of the average WN, but in the fact that people sense that something is wrong with you.

You coddle defectives and are coddled by them because you too are defective. Did you or did you not write about a psychotic episode on Majority Rights back in January?

Trainspotter is right: People of good character, people who have something to lose (the kind of people we need in the movement), are hesitant to get involved with people who show bad judgment and bad taste, to say nothing of writing about their mental illnesses online.

I can’t fault you for your enthusiasm. You wrote a lot of good material, once upon a time. Then you started trying out other things, and that was great too.

Unfortunately, though, you were not getting the kind of constructive criticism you need–or it was not getting through–and instead of improving your efforts or abandoning things you were not good at, you persisted.

The main problem is that you started putting considerations of quantity over quality. OD started being clogged with extremely poor and embarrassing material. The consistently good material from Hood and Parrot and others gets lost here, and it loses its effectiveness because of being juxtaposed with crap.

Your unprofessional, rambling podcasts are an embarrassment, and they have not gotten any better, in spite of practice, which means that you are not getting any critical feedback or are just ignoring it.

But the worst possible thing is your appearance in your big yeller T-shirt on Jeffrey Imm’s site, grinning, shaking hands with the enemy, and generally radiating an impression of weakness, recklessness, and poor judgment.

Did it not occur to you that they might get you on film? Did you give no thought to the impression you might make?

Only on the assumption that quantity is more important than quality can you justify a lot of your material on here.

It is all well and good to get lots of hits, but when a new person comes to this site and samples the heapin’ helpin’s of cornpone and crap on display here, well, you are doing the enemy’s work.

When they skim the discussion threads, they get a whiff of sewer and toll, and they are out of here. It is not as bad as VNN (yet), but it is enough to turn people off. You are cementing the negative impressions of WN fostered by our enemies.

What have you done lately to combat the enemy propaganda that portrays us as stupid, unsavory, and unhinged?

I have my limits. I know them too. So I stick to doing what I am good at. You need to learn the same lesson.


47

Posted by Leon Haller on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 09:02 | #

I really have no idea what everyone’s ‘on’ about here, and care less. I do note that most WN’s are not good writers, are worse thinkers, and are generally not worth considering. People should stick with those who are real scholars (Salter, MacDonald, Sunic, O’Meara, Rushton, Ellis, Devlin, etc), or at least formally educated, and erudite, writers, like Jared Taylor. Generally, the more elite the writer’s credentials, the better he is. Who is this Hunter Wallace? What is his academic or professional background? What books has he published?

I can tell you for certain Richard Spencer is a nobody: cognitively mediocre, and not learned.

Some at MR do seem intellectually serious (GW, Dasein, Grimoire, maybe others I forget). But there is too little intellectual discipline exhibited in most comments, as well as lack of theoretical seriousness.

The kinds of exchanges seen recently on the subject of nationalist ontology, though spectacularly wrongheaded in my opinion, at least are engaged in a worthy task. Nationalist ideology is not remotely as intellectually developed as it could be, and needs to be. Intra-movement gossip does not further this objective, and should be eschewed.


48

Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 12:06 | #

Thank you for the clarification, Greg.  Criticism and praise, if offered in good faith, are the same, and should be received accordingly.  It’s not much of a test, really, for someone who fancies himself among the leaders of the movement in America.


49

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:54 | #

GW,

FYI: Your comment was stuck in the Akismet filter. I was on the road in South Carolina yesterday (attending the regional CofCC meeting in Greenville). I’m not on the internet 24/7 and can’t check the filter every other hour. The comment was approved along with several others when I found out about it.

Greg,

Your comments were deleted per your own instructions to Robert Campbell.


50

Posted by Gudmund on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:23 | #

Leon Haller,

I really have no idea what everyone’s ‘on’ about here, and care less. I do note that most WN’s are not good writers, are worse thinkers, and are generally not worth considering. People should stick with those who are real scholars (Salter, MacDonald, Sunic, O’Meara, Rushton, Ellis, Devlin, etc), or at least formally educated, and erudite, writers, like Jared Taylor.  Generally, the more elite the writer’s credentials, the better he is. Who is this Hunter Wallace? What is his academic or professional background? What books has he published?

Hunter Wallace runs the site “Occidental Dissent” which was, until recently, a good site for the discussion of WN, primarily concerned with the situation of America.  He has a long history of writing in our circles and I understand he is a college-graduate.  He is capable of quality work as anyone here can attest.  But he is also hampered with a record of bizarre and erratic behavior which has turned out to be a large negative in the long run.

I can tell you for certain Richard Spencer is a nobody: cognitively mediocre, and not learned.

You were at Takimag in the old days, yes?  I can easily see where you are coming from with this statement as many of us here remember what a sewer it became in the later days.

Some at MR do seem intellectually serious (GW, Dasein, Grimoire, maybe others I forget). But there is too little intellectual discipline exhibited in most comments, as well as lack of theoretical seriousness.

It comes and it goes.  MR seems to have waves of activity and waves of dormancy.  We also have Captainchaos, Al Ross, Fred Scrooby, PF, Desmond Jones and even at times the elusive NeoNietzsche.  I also happen to like and respect Uh, he also has a long history of writing on racialist sites and he provides a useful contrarian voice.  Not a lightweight crowd overall.  At its best MR’s discussion matches the quality of any other outfit.

The kinds of exchanges seen recently on the subject of nationalist ontology, though spectacularly wrongheaded in my opinion, at least are engaged in a worthy task. Nationalist ideology is not remotely as intellectually developed as it could be, and needs to be.

Fair enough, I’m really more of a “teleological idealist” myself so you’re kind of preaching to the choir here.  GW and I (and others) have gone around about this in the past.  Nevertheless, MR is a good place to develop this sophistication you desire, even if it is only a place to practice rhetoric and hone ideas.  This is because there is no censorship, a generally civil tone, and all ideas, regardless of the stance of the admins vis-a-vis those ideas, will be taken on their own merits.

Intra-movement gossip does not further this objective, and should be eschewed.

The discussion of Occidental Dissent is important so that now and future racialists are not misled as to who they are dealing with where Hunter Wallace is concerned.  It’s better that people know the gruesome details.  As I said, many people invested a lot of time and effort in that site and are angry at how it has turned out.


51

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:56 | #

Greg Johnson, may we know why you were replaced at The Occidental Quarterly Online and who, exactly, made the decision?

I thought your work there was outstanding.


52

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:08 | #

Gudmund seems to be offended by suggestion that posting anonymous comments on obscure blogs isn’t sufficient to create a White ethnostate in North America.


53

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:09 | #

I’ll just add that I am a fan of Hunter Wallace’s site, OccidentalDissent.com , and of Hunter Wallace himself and have long been.  The site now is different from pervious incarnations, of course, in that there are all these good new writers contributing.  Matt Parrott is always very good (he and I clashed early on over something when tempers flared a little but that’s water under the bridge).  Many others over there are consistently quite good as well.  As for their different styles, differences of emphasis, in a few cases different politics, probable differences of general “erudition,” etc., I for one don’t dwell on any of that:  everyone who speaks up against government-enforced race-replacement is my cup of tea.  If he speaks very well, as they all do over there, that’s icing on the cake.


54

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:10 | #

previous


55

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:14 | #

While I’m dishing out praise I’ll throw in that Greg Johnson’s other site, here, http://www.counter-currents.com/ , is first rate and I’m glad I discovered it.


56

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:36 | #

Having returned from South Carolina, I don’t see the “meltdown” anywhere. Everyone is talking about the Jim Webb article now.


57

Posted by Greg Johnson on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:07 | #

HW writes:

Greg,

Your comments were deleted per your own instructions to Robert Campbell.

That is a lie.

HW is having another mental meltdown.


58

Posted by Greg Johnson on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:36 | #

Fred, thanks for your kind words.

I really can’t speak about the TOQ situation for the time being. There are good people involved in all this, and they could be damaged.


59

Posted by Greg Johnson on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:37 | #

HW:

Please pass on to Robert Campbell that he is hereby instructed to restore my comment and commenting privileges at OD.


60

Posted by member of the audience on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:39 | #

Tsk, Tsk…......... it’s apparent too many ‘white nationalists’ are an ungrateful bunch who constantly engage in pettiness and niggling. So much so they give the impression they’d probably crucify their messiah if he appeared on the scene.


61

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:28 | #

Greg Johnson himself told Robert Campbell to delete his posts because “he was tempted to post” and “didn’t want to fight anymore” and “wanted to focus on Counter Currents.” This was in the aftermath of the Spenglerian Decadence thread.

So now he comes over here whining and making a scene ... because we followed his own instructions! It is just another example of typical duplicitous Greg Johnson behavior.


62

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:48 | #

Re: Intellectuals

My own experience keeps challenging the exaggerated importance of intellectuals. Since February, I have been to a dozen or two real world events in this area, Tea Party and White Nationalist.

I’ve been to South Carolina twice. I was there last night. In both cases, the people I saw there were ordinary Americans. I would be shocked if they had read Kai Murros, Alain de Benoist, Martin Heidegger, etc.

There seems to be a negative correlation between reading lots of philosophy and acting in the real world. The people who are most likely to show up at events don’t read philosophers. The people who enjoy reading lots of philosophy prefer to stay at home, read their books, and talk about White Nationalism on the internet.

Why is that? I don’t know. .

It challenges the notion though that appealing to the mind is sufficient to produce real world action.


63

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:53 | #

Greg,

When Andrew Yeoman was beaten in the streets of San Francisco by anti-fa, it looks to me like you had a physical meltdown. Where were you when that happened?


64

Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:21 | #

Hunter:

There seems to be a negative correlation between reading lots of philosophy and acting in the real world. The people who are most likely to show up at events don’t read philosophers. The people who enjoy reading lots of philosophy prefer to stay at home, read their books, and talk about White Nationalism on the internet.

Why is that? I don’t know.

Better find out, then, ‘cos the other side has got it all worked out:

The super-national sovereignty of an Intellectual Elite and World Bankers is surely preferable to the national ...


65

Posted by Greg Johnson on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:22 | #

Troubled soul Hunter Wallace writes:

“Greg Johnson himself told Robert Campbell to delete his posts because “he was tempted to post” and “didn’t want to fight anymore” and “wanted to focus on Counter Currents.” This was in the aftermath of the Spenglerian Decadence thread.

So now he comes over here whining and making a scene ... because we followed his own instructions! It is just another example of typical duplicitous Greg Johnson behavior.”

This is a lie, but an instructive lie, since it illustrates one of the central processes of mental illness, namely, projection.

Rob Campbell and I were discussing HW’s latest mental meltdown, and Rob mentioned that HW had suggested that maybe it would be best to shut down the discussion thread on his attempt to reply to my piece on Spengler and racial purism: “Is Racial Purism Decadent?” that Kevin MacDonald, an intellectual giant, saw fit to publish on TOO.

http://www.counter-currents.com/2010/07/is-racial-purism-decadent/

Since at the time, I had the last post on the thread, I urged Rob to do so, and to post that “At Hunter’s request, discussion on this thread has been stopped.” We had a good laugh and went on to another topic.

Pass that fact through the fun-house mirrors of a crazy man’s brain, and out comes the inversion posted above.

Over the past few months, I have learned a valuable lesson about dealing with crazy people: You can’t. You can’t be their friend. You can’t manage them, manipulate them, or get mileage out of them.

But even worse: Once you have formed a relationship with a crazy person, it is impossible to distance yourself from him in a quiet and graceful way.

I tried to put a good deal of distance between myself and a crazy person back in January. Then, in recent months I decided to distance myself from other crazy people, Hunter included.

But I discovered a frightening truth: Just because you are not thinking about a crazy person, that does not mean that his is not thinking about you. You may have suspended your relationship with him, but he cannot and will not do the same. Instead, his crazy brain begins projecting things to fill up the void you have left in his life. He begins to imagine arguments with you, conspiracies you are plotting against him, and the like. And if there is any way that the kook can still affect your life, he will, and generally the outcome will be worse than if you had maintained contact with him.

The movement is full of crazy people, and they cannot be purged, because like the Jews with their nuclear arsenal, they would rather blow up their world than not be in it.

Tell me, people: How we can win if this is our predicament?


66

Posted by Greg Johnson on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:32 | #

A new theme is sounded in Hunter’s latest psychotic fugue.

What is a “physical meltdown” Hunter?

On May first, I was several thousand miles from San Francisco watching the Metropolitan Opera’s production of ARMIDA.


67

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:21 | #

Greg,

When it comes to acting in the real world, it is clear you have other priorities. Instead of standing by your comrades when they go out to face danger, you would rather read a book, watch an opera, or walk that dog of yours.

Then you come on the internet, wave your limp wrist around, and denounce racial preservation as “degenerate” because White Nationalists are “conservative,” not “progressive,” and don’t read enough of your effeminate little translated essays.

You of all people calling the conservatives cowards? Let me try to keep a straight face.

That’s so god damn funny I don’t know where to start. Look at this way: the girl who accompanied Yeoman to the amnesty rally was beaten, received a concussion, and went to the hospital.

What’s a physical meltdown? It is another way of saying you are a physical coward. I’m saying there isn’t an essay or book in the world that could persuade you to leave your comfort zone.

When that video of you at the Francis Parker Yockey Memorial was posted on Occidental Dissent, you literally shit a brick at the thought that someone might see you.

You come on this website and criticize my radio show? What happened to the Counter Currents radio show on Voice of Reason?

Oh wait, that’s right. That project was abandoned before the first episode because you were afraid of having “too high a profile.” Someone might hear the lisp in your voice.

Say what you want about the conservatives, but even they are not so gutless that they cower in fear at the thought of just being seen on Vimeo or YouTube. Even they get out in the real world and translate their ideas into action.

Why doesn’t the White Nationalist movement go anywhere?

Elementary, Dear Watson!

It is because physical cowards like yourself don’t have the courage and integrity to stand by their words. Just as Joe Six Pack watches television or sports to pass the time and entertain himself, which he considers fun, you pass the time with mental masturbation by reading Hitler, eating at German restaurants, reading French philosophers, and going to operas with that boyfriend of yours.

Re: Robert Campbell

His exact words were that you wanted us to delete your posts because you were “tempted to respond” and “didn’t want to fight anymore” and “wanted to focus on Counter Currents.” So I took at you at your word.

You are a liar. You say one thing to one person, something else to another. Case in point, those rumors you spread around about me in May which you denied at the time but later admitted to, after lying to everyone about your innocence.

Oh, last but not least:

The only person who had anything resembling a “mental meltdown” this year was yourself. It ranks up there with the most epic meltdowns in the history of the White Nationalist movement. That crap went on for months. You tried to drag everyone you knew into the middle of that shit storm.

Do I need to remind you that you were the one who burned your bridges? Do I need to remind you that you are the “former editor of The Occidental Quarterly”?

Why is that?

Answer: Greg Johnson’s meltdown.


68

Posted by Greg Johnson on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:48 | #

Again: you can’t be friends or colleagues or comrades with crazy people.

But the real horror begins when you try to distance yourself from them.

If you ever come into contact with a crazy, back slowly out of the room and hope that you do not become stuck in one of their delusional patterns, or your absence will make you even more vulnerable than your presence.

It looks like I am going to be stalked for the rest of my life by this psychopath.

Is it any wonder that people of good character don’t want to get anywhere near this movement?


69

Posted by Captainchaos on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:25 | #

Wallace, if Johnson is as you claim, naught but a limp-wristed, lisping effeminate, then what possible use could he have been in coming to Andrew Yeoman’s defense at the May Day rally?

Johnson, if Wallace is as you claim, naught but a feckless psychotic, then just what is it you saw in him that merited your collaboration with him in the first place?  And if Wallace is as you say he is, doesn’t the fact that MacDonald saw fit to vest stewardship of TOQ Online in Wallace cast doubt in your mind as to the quality of MacDonald’s judgement; do you question Kevin MacDonald’s judgement?

And just for fun:

Wallace, do you support the sterilization of homosexuals?

Johnson, do you support the sterilization of the mentally ill?


70

Posted by Desmond Jones on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:26 | #

Greg Johnson:

First, although intellectual debate is definitely part of White Nationalism (perhaps too large a part), we must never lose sight of the fact that White Nationalism is a political movement, not an intellectual one. Intellectual movements require agreement on first principles as well as ultimate goals. Political movements require agreement only on practical goals.

Our goal is a White homeland in North America. This political goal is, as a matter of fact, shared by Christians and non-Christians alike. To achieve a White homeland, we have to work with our allies, not against them. We might wish that they agree with us on other matters besides the goal of a White homeland. But this is not necessary, and emphasizing differences of opinion is not productive. When one is on the barricades, one does not turn to one’s comrades and start finding fault.

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/authors/Johnson-Christianity.html


71

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:00 | #

Captainchaos,

Granted, Johnson would have been useless in the physical altercation. I would also rather have the girl (or the dog) on my side. If he had shown up with the dog, he might have been of some use.

As for homosexuals, I don’t support their sterilization. I’m not convinced it is genetic. Johnson can deny being a homosexual on the technicality that he has slept with a woman or two.

This whole sordid episode, sad as it is to say, was caused by the gay thing: the utter inability to let things go and move on, the obsessive hatred of others, the inability to tolerate the mildest criticism, coming back again and again to shit stir, all the attacks on “conservatives” and “Christianity,” all this artsy, effete intellectual masturbation, the total dismissal of acting in the real world to change our situation, the persecution complex, his choice of residence, etc.

Ever since this row began, I’ve said a thousand times in private that it is gay and that he should drop it and move on, but he became more militant about it. He was given half a dozen opportunities to leave the matter alone. He was warned privately that if he kept up this shit that I would eventually lose my patience with his attacks.

He wants to come on OD and say that Alex Linder was right about me? Well, maybe Alex Linder had a point or two about Greg Johnson.

If he had said that Johnson was a 7/10 on the gay scale, not a 10/10, I would have granted his point.

Note: I could have said this at any time of my choosing to harm Greg Johnson. He forced me to respond by attacking me half a dozen times, refusing to let the matter go, and taking the issue to another website.

I defended this son of a bitch back in December at a cost of making unnecessary enemies. This is how he repays me?


72

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:02 | #

Scrooby,

Repost the comment with the correct name.


73

Posted by H Rock White on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:10 | #

Ummm…why would you have to sterilize homosexuals?  Kinda like shackling a paraplegic


74

Posted by Greg Johnson on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:28 | #

I have one question for Hunter Wallace:

Did it ever occur to you that the people you are spinning into this fascinating tale might not vouch for you?

But of course. You are crazy. The things you say are not statements of fact. They are symptoms.


75

Posted by Captainchaos on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:42 | #

Ummm…why would you have to sterilize homosexuals?  Kinda like shackling a paraplegic

I’d be shocked if indeed there wasn’t a genetic predisposition to homosexuality.  By the by, AIDS did in some fashion manage to migrate out of the gay community to heterosexuals in a fashion that may be slightly germane to procreation, did it not?  But I don’t myself support their sterilization, although instituting a strict regime of eugenics including the sterilization of homosexuals may be unavoidable for those who wish to usher in a race of god-men.


76

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:47 | #

Fred Scrooby,

Johnson has had a dozen chances to drop the matter. The only reason we are having this discussion is because he came over here to start this shit up again. It all stems from his own “meltdown” back in April and May which we are not allowed to talk about.

If he would leave it alone, that would be the end of it. Of course he is unable to do that for an obvious reason: like a woman, a fag can’t let things go and move on, and dwells on his butthurtness forever.


77

Posted by Greg Johnson on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:56 | #

Captainchaos writes:

“Johnson, if Wallace is as you claim, naught but a feckless psychotic, then just what is it you saw in him that merited your collaboration with him in the first place?  And if Wallace is as you say he is, doesn’t the fact that MacDonald saw fit to vest stewardship of TOQ Online in Wallace cast doubt in your mind as to the quality of MacDonald’s judgement; do you question Kevin MacDonald’s judgement?”

Fair enough:

(1) Not all crazy people seem crazy at first glance. I liked Prozium’s writings, so I reposted the best of it at TOQ Online (errr . . . Hunter, that was part of my job). I talked to him on the phone, and he seemed intelligent and likable enough. When I lured him into the real world for some events in Atlanta, I thought he comported himself well.

I had done some background checking of his online career, but it was such a welter of questionable stuff on all sides that I decided I would just trust my own judgment.

Thus I was genuinely surprised when he wrote about his (last) psychotic episode on this website.

(Mentioning his own damning words is twisted into “spreading rumors.” He apparently does not understand that when he pleads not guilty by reason of insanity, that gives people the unsettling impression that he is . . . insane.)

At that point, I decided that the best thing to do was praise him for his transparency . . . and be watchful. When I started seeing signs of erratic behavior and bad judgment, I stepped back. But, as I said, once you fall into a crazy person’s delusional patterns, they won’t let you get away unscathed.

(2) Kevin MacDonald did not appoint Hunter Wallace custodian of TOQ Online. And yes, I most certainly do question the judgment of those who did so without checking into his past.

Perhaps people more knowledgeable than me can fill us all in on what happens to people’s private information when Big Yella turns vindictive?


78

Posted by WTF on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:02 | #

VNN Forum has trenchant commentary on the current commotion, as does Stumble Inn.


79

Posted by Dan Dare on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:19 | #

Aren’t there any number of other venues at which these handbag events could be staged? Why do we have to suffer them at MR?

GW?


80

Posted by WTF on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:35 | #

Hunter Wallace aka Brad Griffin aka Fade The Butcher aka Prozium aka Scimitar aka Daedalus aka Klaas Ebbe aka Feyd Harkonnen aka NjEcTiOn collaborated with Jews and antis to hack a WN forum and steal passwords.

The Prozium.aka.Feyd_degeneracy_archive at The Phora contains evidence of his nefarious activities.

Fade’s associates at the Phora knew him best.  What did they say?  It is foolish to associate with him.  Another meltdown is right around the corner.  He changes his ideological stance every few months.

Alex Linder has warned people involved with Fade.

No, that will be the psychotropic medication gulper Brad Griffin, aka ‘Prozium’ / ‘Hunter Wallace’ and a hundred other bogus monikers, since he was and may well still be involved with Dees’s family. I’ll repeat my warning: the day will come when he will flip his politics yet again. A little bit of pressure will come down, and he will flee back to leftism, and denounce his WN history and fans, and pass on whatever he knows to Dees and his other pals.


81

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:52 | #

Here’s another story:

In May 2009, I started to post again on Occidental Dissent, and in August 2009, I started to notice that my work was being published on TOQ Online. I didn’t mind this at all. I thought it was a good idea that my writing was being exposed to a wider audience.

Eventually, Greg Johnson sent me an email, and I spoke with him on the phone. He put me in contact with two other people in my area.

Of these two people who knew Greg Johnson, one considered him a good friend, whereas the other warned me about him. I was told to watch out and stay clear of him.

I took the warning under advisement, but after meeting Greg Johnson in Atlanta, I started counting him as a friend. I eventually went back to Atlanta where I met a number of other people.

From August 2009 until April 2010, I considered Greg Johnson a good friend. I talked with him all the time. He posted a ton of material from OD on TOQ Online.

In December, Greg Johnson had a falling out with Alex Linder and Jim Giles. I went to VNN Forum and on Radio Free Mississippi to defend Greg Johnson.

The charge was that he was a homosexual.

I knew immediately after speaking with Johnson for the first time on the telephone that he wasn’t a heterosexual. This didn’t bother me. I didn’t think his private life was any business of mine.

When Linder attacked Johnson as a homosexual, I said that he wasn’t one, and got embroiled in that fiasco on Johnson’s account. I denied the charge because technically he isn’t one: he is just one of those people who swing both ways, more to the gay side than the straight side.

Fastforward to April 2010.

This is around the time I went to the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot in April.

I find out that Johnson is having a falling out with his employers. This had been going on since October and could have exploded at any moment. For six months, I didn’t have a clue that any of this was going on. I had nothing to do with the matter.

It gradually became apparent that Johnson’s tenure as Editor of TOQ was precarious. There was acrimony going on between the two sides. I was told the shit was going to hit the fan at any moment.

Again, I had absolutely nothing to do with this, and didn’t know about it until the end.

The fact is, Johnson wasn’t doing his job: he promised to catch up the journal, but failed to do so; the financial records he kept were in utter shambles; he wrote for his own website less than 15 times whereas he posted over 50 blog entries from me alone; people would order subscriptions, but wouldn’t get the journal; he was pushing the envelope and putting ever more extreme material in the journal.

When I found out that Johnson was about to lose his job, I myself offered to do the back issues of the journal; do his job for him, if that is what it took to make the matter go away, free of charge.

Johnson would have none of this. He told me these worthless conservatives would have to live with his decision, eat crow, cut the checks, and that he would persuade them of his superior reasoning.

I knew at that point the situation was hopeless. There was nothing we could to do save Greg Johnson from himself. All we could to is sit on the sidelines.

Johnson became more extreme. He had a “meltdown” in which he started to make extreme statements. He threatened to destroy his various enemies and the organization itself, ruin their careers, ruin their reputations. He told his own boss that he should have the power to fire him!

All this culminated in an aborted attempt by Johnson to overthrow TOQ and recreate it in his own image. He tried to force his friends to choose sides and break with TOQ because he was too lazy to do his own fucking job.

Around this time, we were offered the TOQ job, and turned it down because we explained that we couldn’t betray a friend. We told Greg Johnson how dire the situation was and literally begged him to save his job.

Out of pride, he refused to compromise. Then one day he called us to announce he was the “former editor of The Occidental Quarterly.” Who could have ever predicted that?

Guess what Greg Johnson did then?

He locked the TOQ Online website, changed all the passwords and contact information, and refused to hand over the keys until he was paid for the job he was too lazy to do. He kept the entire inventory of books, his laptop, and all his issues of TOQ he did as editor to himself.

Imagine you worked at Wal-Mart. You don’t do your job. You try to overthrow the Walton family. Then you physically take over the store, force every other employee to choose sides, and refuse to depart the premises until you paid off.

In a nutshell, that is why Greg Johnson is “former editor of The Occidental Quarterly.”

As Johnson became more extreme, I became disillusioned with him. For the previous year, all he spoke about was wanting to build up TOQ. Then suddenly, Johnson turned on a dime and wanted to tear everything down, and demanded that everyone else join him.

In May, it was decided that Kevin MacDonald would be the new TOQ editor, and would be charged with cleaning up Johnson’s mess. The website was turned into an archive of the journal. We agreed to post articles from back issues of the journal to keep the thing alive. We’ve also been trying to make some sense of the chaos of the financial records that Johnson left behind.

For a month, TOQ Online was dead as a doornail, as Johnson squatted on the keys demanding to be paid off. Finally, the website was seized from his control, and restored to its owners.

At that point, Johnson decided “Hunter Wallace is the enemy.”

At that point, Johnson started to spread around Alex Linder’s smear that I work for the SPLC and that I am a crazy psycho, not because he believes any of this (if that was the case, why did he talk to me every other day for almost a year), but solely because I refused to follow him like Thelma and Louise off the cliff into insanity.

He’s extremely bitter about this. Hence, his constant petulant attacks that I am a psycho or whatever; things he wouldn’t be saying today if he had only done his own job.

Whose account sounds more plausible?

Does my account explain Johnson’s sudden volte-face, or did he suddenly realize I was “crazy” and “obsessed” with him in May?


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Posted by Greg Johnson on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:04 | #

Wow, Brad. Keep going. Let it all out.

Show us how loyal you are, how professional you are, how discreet you are, how you can be trusted with confidences.

Keep showing people who are in the know how your mind works: the lies, the half-truths, the projections, the vindictive rampages.

The people who presently associate with you must be asking themselves: “Am I next?” “What will happen when he turns on me?” “What does he know that could be damaging?” (It doesn’t matter folks. He will just make up stuff.) “Will he destroy my business?” “Will he destroy my marriage?” “Will he destroy my career?” “Will he destroy my political aspirations?” “Can I afford to be associated with this kook?”

Have another donut, Brad. Then let it all out.


83

Posted by n/a on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:07 | #

“It joins with Amren and OO in choosing what thinking people may speak, and therefore what we may read and ponder.”

This coming from the owner of a website with an admin who deletes comments for insisting whitey landed on the moon.

“He is a talented writer.  He could have served his people in that capacity [. . .]  He seems, though, to have a compulsion to push himself to the fore”

So your problem with HW comes down to the fact that you think he should have written for MR instead of building a more successful website. Just like your problem with the “Regnery circus” started when they didn’t give your friend an award and didn’t include you in their discussions. The cattiness does not become you, GW. Alex Linder and Greg Johnson are equally bitchy and self-interested, but for someone with as elevated a view of himself as you, the attitude is particularly out of place.


84

Posted by n/a on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:11 | #

Gudmund

“It’s a shame that so many people of quality invested time and effort in commenting on the site”

What have you “lost”? What return did you expect to get by commenting on his website, and how is it now diminished in any way?


85

Posted by Lurker on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:26 | #

Hunter Wallace aka Brad Griffin aka Fade The Butcher aka Prozium aka Scimitar aka Daedalus aka Klaas Ebbe aka Feyd Harkonnen aka NjEcTiOn collaborated with Jews and antis to hack a WN forum and steal passwords.

Is all this stuff true then?

Doesnt look good does it. What to believe eh?


86

Posted by Metal Gear on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:31 | #

Don’t give Fade credit for hacking the phora.

I take credit for it and I’m proud of bitch-slapping that degenerate sewer of shit.

I would do the same thing in the same circumstances.


87

Posted by Lurker on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:38 | #

Never mind handbagging, meltdowns and all that.

The killer is the story on hacking/password/theft/false flagging mentioned in that link.

Options:

a) Someone has gone to a lot of trouble faking all those pages to smear HW.

b) The alias used, Feyd Harkonnen, is not actually HW.

c) The alias used, Feyd Harkonnen, is HW but the context and who & whats being discussed is being misrepresented to smear HW.

d) The story is, essentially, true as presented. Oh dear me.

e) Other possibilities?


88

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:39 | #

Many of the people who still talk to Greg Johnson do so only because they are are afraid he will attempt to cause them harm if he gets on their bad side. When the phone rings, their anxiety rises.

If I was malicious, I would have shared the truth about Greg Johnson long ago. This guy viciously attacked me almost a dozen times before I started responding.

Undoubtedly, Greg Johnson will now start to cry about how awful I am for “attacking him,” conveniently omitting that he himself came here and started every bit of this, after he was prevailed upon privately through third parties to drop the matter. He’s one of those people who can dish it out, but can’t take it.

If the moderators want to send this discussion to the memory hole, feel free to do so. I am only here because I refuse to stand idly by while Greg Johnson uses other websites to spread his lies.


89

Posted by Metal Gear on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:43 | #

The other possibility is that the ring leaders in terms of actually breaking into the phora were me, Daniels Shays and Berianidze (he pretended to be loyal so he could be a mod).  Hunter Wallace is not the man to blame for the hack against the phroa.


90

Posted by Lurker on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:44 | #

Metal Gear

I dont know about the phora but if the general tone there was anything like MR it doesnt sound like it would be hotbed of neo-liberalism, globalism and unrestricted laissez-faire capitalism (taking my cue from your front page there). In fact quite the opposite. If you had any interest in attacking those ills there must be thousands of websites higher up the target list.


91

Posted by Lurker on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:57 | #

The other possibility is that the ring leaders in terms of actually breaking into the phora were me, Daniels Shays and Berianidze (he pretended to be loyal so he could be a mod).  Hunter Wallace is not the man to blame for the hack against the phroa.

And cue the insanity…

Maybe thats true or maybe you are covering for him or maybe you are just stirring.


92

Posted by Captainchaos on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:58 | #

The cattiness does not become you, GW. Alex Linder and Greg Johnson are equally bitchy and self-interested, but for someone with as elevated a view of himself as you, the attitude is particularly out of place.

Come now, n/a, a committed Anglophile such as yourself must know that the English have traditionally waited for their competitors to set one upon the other and then form an alliance with what looks to be the winning side - all the while coating their ruthlessness in velvety pretensions of moral superiority.  A strategy which has worked wonderfully for them - except for when they picked the wrong side in WWII and got their pockets picked by the Amerikwans - and seems to be now working again.

Btw, aren’t you just pissed at GW because of his failure to make sufficiently impassioned professions of his commitment to Nordicism?

If the moderators want to send this discussion to the memory hole,

That won’t happen, see above.


93

Posted by Lurker on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:04 | #

If the moderators want to send this discussion to the memory hole

That won’t happen, see above.

Capn’ - I dont feel the problem is just a spat, that can be smoothed out, overcome and yes even shoved down the old memory hole maybe. Its that whole hacking story, thats the kryptonite. If that cant be explained interpersonal bitching and unhappy relations are secondary, we can get over them, in fact they come across as a diversionary tactic.


94

Posted by Dan Dare on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:10 | #

Cap’n, the English have no dog in this particular hunt. It is a purely domestic affair, a mere bagatelle, as meaningful as a sudden squabble at a pre-pubescent slumber party about some already half-forgotten slight.

How our enemies must be chortling at the prospect of grown men busying themselves with such fishwifery.


95

Posted by Greg Johnson on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:14 | #

Big Yella wants it zapped because he is afraid that he has gone too far, said too much, and that there will be negative consequences for him not too far down the road. But that won’t work, because anything in cyberspace can be copied.

Don’t worry, HW, all you have to do to restore the confidence of your friends and associates is plead insanity again.

“What happened in my case was harmless, I said a few silly things on the internet, was taken to the hospital, took some pills, sat in my bedroom for a few months laughing hysterically, and that was the end of the matter. That was over two years ago.”—HW

Yes, that will do the trick.


96

Posted by WTF on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:14 | #

Why does Fade want this discussion flushed down the memory hole?


97

Posted by Lurker on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:14 | #

How our enemies must be chortling at the prospect of grown men busying themselves with such fishwifery.

DD, its not the fishwifery that bothers me, we can get past that, its the hacking story. Am I not picking up on something here?


98

Posted by WTF on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:19 | #

Lurker, the correct answer is

d) The story is, essentially, true as presented. Oh dear me.


99

Posted by Metal Gear on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:23 | #

You must understand that the phora is a con artist forum which lures naive people into it, under the pretense that it is giving them free speech.  It then gathers personal information details on these people and outs them to the world.  In my case I was about to graduate from college into a rough economy when it happened.  It got to the point where their libel was the number one result for a google search on my real name.

That is why I hacked the phora.

What fade did was secondary.  He was by no means the ring leader.  He may not have stopped me, but he didn’t start me.  Nor could he have stopped me because Daniel Shays owned the forum and the other forums involved were puppet forums started by me and someone else who turned traitor.

I will lose everything - my credibility, my reputation if I have one, my friends, to defend my decision to hack the phora.


100

Posted by Lurker on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:27 | #

So WTF says guilty, MG says not exactly. Any further bids?


101

Posted by Luker on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:31 | #

I meant to use my earlier list.

WTF says d)

MG says c) though what I read doesnt look quite as innocent as c)


102

Posted by Captainchaos on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:36 | #

Dare, GW’s concern for the state of American racialism is ultimately vested in his understanding that if America goes under Western Europe will be forced to form an alliance with Russia; an alliance that won’t come cheap and that he wishes to avoid.  He would much prefer America, with its predominantly Northwestern European blood, as culturally an extended phenotype of England, to the Russians calling the tune for Europe.  You know how the Russians do things, “gangsterism,” and all that.


103

Posted by Metal Gear on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:53 | #

Knowing what I just told you about the phora, who cares if Fade hypothetically hacked it?  From an ethical perspective, who can be more deserving?  What they did to me was not their sole reason for their being scum.

But the scenario was not that Fade said “Kane, go hack the phora.”  And kane said : “yes fade.  I’ll involve myself at your services.”  This needs to be cleared up.  The scenario was really that I started the ball rolling
he’s not guilty of premeditating a hack and carrying out the plan.  He’s guilty by association but…I mean knowing what I told you, him being against the phora shouldn’t be a problem.  C’mon now, would you not want revenge on people who tried (many times) to cause you real life harm over internet posts?  Why should the liberties of such people be protected?


104

Posted by Lurker on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 02:25 | #

It depends who was being undermined at the the phora, people who were genuinely posting there, or the people up to no good at the admin level.

MG, I like your chessboard metaphor btw. We probably disagree on exactly who those amoral elites are, but with on on the general thrust of the fake left/right split.


105

Posted by Lurker on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 02:28 | #

Spam posts spreading across MR like a disease right now! The bastards are everywhere. I assume all this garbage gets swept away at some point.

Does this happen at this time every day? Im not normally around at this sort of time.


106

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:04 | #

I will not delete this exchange, notwithstanding the grievance-nursers it has pulled in.  It is not our business to pretty-up the face of WN.  If it isn’t pretty enough that is only because the natural part of our people’s interests have been neatly excised from public discourse and from the political domain, and confined to the margins where marginal personalities abound.  Our politics should be the underlying norm or, perhaps, the framework, the meta-politics, for all the politics of European peoples.  The inversion is complete.  But it will never be corrected unless we face up to our own reality as well as all the other realities of the times which we are only too happy to expose.

The winners of the thread, btw, are Fred for his good intent and CC for his mischief (but not only that - he’s also pretty sharp).


107

Posted by Observer on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:23 | #

“I’m sitting here eating donuts with three other White Nationalists right now.”

From the looks of that picture of you over at Imm’s site, you’ve been eating donuts forever.


108

Posted by Armor on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:57 | #

That kind of thread should be deleted without any second thought. It’s not only that feelings get hurt, it’s also a matter of public relations. We have the right objective, which is the survival of white people, we have the arguments and the truth on our side, but we also need to pay some attention to the packaging. Public quarrels are funny to watch, but they are bad for public relations!


109

Posted by Dan Dare on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:47 | #

Dare, GW’s concern for the state of American racialism is ultimately vested in his understanding that if America goes under Western Europe will be forced to form an alliance with Russia; an alliance that won’t come cheap and that he wishes to avoid.  He would much prefer America, with its predominantly Northwestern European blood, as culturally an extended phenotype of England, to the Russians calling the tune for Europe.  You know how the Russians do things, “gangsterism,” and all that.

Thank you so much for taking the trouble in amplifying GW’s worldview for us Cap’n, he’s such a shy and retiring sort that we never know for sure what he’s really thinking, so thanks again for that.

It’s also reassuring to learn about the ‘predominantly Northwestern European blood’, which must mean that the the Census Bureau’s apocalyptic projections about demographic replacement can be safely ignored as well. As for gangsterism, I can see how being in thrall to the Federal Reserve and Wall Street with their temple merchants of ‘predominantly Northwestern European blood’ would be infinitely more preferable than being under the thumb of Gazprom or Yukoil.

You see these things with such clarity Cap’n, it’s no wonder GW thinks you’re pretty sharp.


110

Posted by Leon Haller on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:55 | #

I agree with ARMOR above.

GUDMUND: thank you for your considered reply. BTW, I believe you were one of the good guys in our common task of injecting race-realism into takimag, which that coward Spencer kept deleting. I would love to debate Spencer publicly, on any subject. I would wipe the floor with him. Any project with him involved (and he’s queer, too?!) cannot betaken seriously.

I admire and am grateful for GW’s commitment to free speech, which does not mean that unintellectual verbal blasts need be kept posted. But it is not my place to comment on editorial policy. I just am myself a dedicated and practical man, and can’t stand “politics”. We have a world to win.


111

Posted by Leon Haller on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:22 | #

It’s also reassuring to learn about the ‘predominantly Northwestern European blood’, which must mean that the the Census Bureau’s apocalyptic projections about demographic replacement can be safely ignored as well. As for gangsterism, I can see how being in thrall to the Federal Reserve and Wall Street with their temple merchants of ‘predominantly Northwestern European blood’ would be infinitely more preferable than being under the thumb of Gazprom or Yukoil.
- Dan Dare

While this retort to CapnC makes some fair points, and while I myself have been declaiming for 25 years against the reality behind these demographic projections, it is also the case that the US has one of the largest concentrations (indeed, if not the largest) of Nordic genes to be found in any major geopolitical area.

The US has about 200 million whites, and 110 million non-whites. While it is unfortunately true that many of those “whites” are either not white at all (they include some Hispanics and Arabs, not to mention Jews), or are not racially pure (though in that I must include two of my cousins, both blondes and fair and very, very white, except that, through their “Jamestown” mother, unrelated to me, they have “Native American” blood in them, as do many super-Old-Stock Americans), it remains the case that there are quite likely over 100 million whites who are not only pure Europoids, but even who are of the Nordic or Alpinic racial types, the rest being Slavs or Mediterraneans (though many Slavic Americans of my acquaintance, especially the Poles, look very “Aryan”, and several of my Italo-American friends are white supremacists). 

Given that the majority of American whites are of English, Scotch-Irish or German ethnic heritage, it is possible that there are over 100 million Aryans here. Is there any larger concentration of Aryans within another sovereign nation?

CapnChaos does have a point.


112

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:14 | #

But, Dan, you are not being fair.  CC thinks the same as me, I think, which is that if white America survives independent and free, there will be no hostility emanating from it and targeted at the motherlands.  The Fed and Wall Street and the banking dynasties that own it will have lost.  This has to be preferred to a Eurasian supremacy.  Unless, of course, white America fails, in which case and notwithstanding her own demographic problems Mother Russia matters a whole lot more.

Armor,

If I was worried about public relations I’d be running a site like Amren.  Here we try, at least, to speak the whole truth and nothing but.


113

Posted by The decline of Occidental Dissent on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:26 | #

I suspect what is going on here is related to the turmoil at TOQ earlier this year.

Looks like I was right on the money.


114

Posted by Captainchaos on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 23:59 | #

It’s also reassuring to learn about the ‘predominantly Northwestern European blood’, which must mean that the the Census Bureau’s apocalyptic projections about demographic replacement can be safely ignored as well.

Alright, Dare, I guess you got me.  I was under the impression that this was where one comments on a blog on the Internet and not where one pens one’s PhD thesis to be submitted for Professor Dare’s approval which can only be gained if the language therein is totally exhaustive and perfectly precise vis-a-vis said’s subject matter.  My…bad.

What I meant was of America’s White population it can be said that it currently and for the foreseeable future will be of “predominantly Northwestern European blood”.  Do you care to dispute that?  And, moreover, I do not consider “America,” at least as I would care to think of it, as including the motley collection of muds which presently reside in our living space.  Do you consider your muds to be part of “England”?

As for gangsterism, I can see how being in thrall to the Federal Reserve and Wall Street with their temple merchants of ‘predominantly Northwestern European blood’ would be infinitely more preferable than being under the thumb of Gazprom or Yukoil.

The powers that be in Russia (effectively Putin, Putin runs shit there and has final say) exercise a level of authoritarian control not found in America.  Now, in the instance that America becomes so demographically degraded beyond any last hope of Whites reclaiming even a part of it, and its overwhelming non-White, Jew-manipulated population predictably turns its hostile gaze on a newly nationalist Europe, you will be forced into the arms of Russia.  And, if Russia predictably demands as a minimum for the price of its protection of you control of Slavic Eastern Europe, and quite possibly profound say in the internal matters of Western Europe’s governments under the pretext of “collective defense”, wouldn’t that just ruin your week?  In the hypothetical scenario under consideration, I consider it self-evident that Russia would seek to increase its level of authoritarian control, both internally and externally, not decrease it.

Every freedom loving Englishman should attempt a small experiment: He should look himself in the mirror and say with all sincerity “England is Russia’s bitch.”  After so doing, if he manages to hold onto his breakfast, then I guess no big deal.


115

Posted by England Is Russia's Bitch on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:25 | #

Let’s look into the crystal ball.  At some time in the not so distant future a cascade of revolutionary nationalism grips the nations of Western Europe.  It has been declared that all non-Whites and mongrels will be repatriated out of Western Europe.  Non-White America, dancing on the strings that the Jews pull, perceive this as an existential threat to not only themselves but their co-ethnics everywhere.  After all, they’ll be facing “Nazis” bent on global domination and the total extermination of all non-Whites on a global scale.  The “Nazis,” as before, must be stopped, and at all costs.  America, with enough White soldiers still extant to effect this, will intervene militarily.  But at the last moment, the revolutionary nationalist governments of Europe call on the Russians to move their troops into Western Europe to forestall the impending American military action.  The Jews, not falling for their own propaganda, and valuing their lives, demure in the use of nuclear weapons and call off their troops.  Europe is saved; England is saved.  But at what price?  Once the Russians come in they ain’t leavin’.  Cuz what leader of a powerful nation who styles himself an authoritarian would turn down an empire if it fell into his lap?

England is Russia’s bitch.  Fait accompli.


116

Posted by Whose Bitch Will England Be? on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:00 | #

An alternate scenario: American WN metastasizes to palingenetic proportions and becomes intent on exporting its fascistic domestic dominance in a fit of global revolution to all White countries.  Western Europe, with the collaboration of native fascists, is brought into the sphere of the White Empire.  England is then America’s bitch, not that it isn’t now, but it will be more so, only in a different way.  But look on the bright side, in either scenario, the existence of the English will be secured.  However, I don’t suspect this would be to either you or GW’s liking.  Otherwise, what did all those Krauts allegedly burn for? 

Therein lies the import of the direction American WN takes as concerns the English.


117

Posted by WTF on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:09 | #

Why don’t you explain the comment deletion policy over at OD, “Wallace”?  Are there any standards, or do you and “H. Rock” just delete whatever you feel like deleting?


118

Posted by WTF on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:11 | #

Why don’t you also explain why you posted a comment under the name “Greg Johnson”, Fade?


119

Posted by J. M. on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:21 | #

The TOQ/Greg Johnson affair I can not speak of.  I do know about Hunter Wallace’s shenanigans; he is by no means an unknown quantity.

In the past, “Hunter” used “Fade the Butcher”, “Feyd Harkonnen” and many, many other monikers. “Hunter” is well known for his compulsive lying (his false claim to be George Wallace’s grandson being one example; his false claim to have a wife and kid in the oven is another—the running joking now being that “Hunter Jr.” has had the longest gestation in human history).  He’s also well known for dramatically proclaiming a new political orientation every few months, and for acting out spectacular mental meltdowns on the Internet. But, worst of all—and this is where we must draw the line—Hunter Wallace is known to have participated in an operation to phish passwords from innocent people, in order to pursue one of his many Internet feuds.

Basically the story in a nutshell is this:  “Hunter”, the butt-hurt mamzer “MetalGear” a.k.a “Kane”, and a couple other people, mostly Communist riff-raff (apparently “Hunter” wasn’t feeling particularly WN at the time), set up a forum called the Lyceum, which was specifically created and modified to capture and record the passwords of all those who signed in.  They would then use the stolen passwords in an attempt to break into their victims’ email accounts (which often worked when people either used the same password for everything, or absentmindedly typed the password of another account).  They read people’s private email, often uncovering personal information, and they used the email accounts to recover other passwords.  They broke into their accounts at the Phora (the forum motivating all the hate).  After all of this, sometimes the Lyceum crew would change the passwords and perpetrate other mischief, much to the grief of the victims.  “Hunter” did not do the technical finagling to record the passwords—that was “MetalGear”—but “Hunter” did help plan the whole scheme, and he deliberately used all his connections and resources to lure people to his password-phishing forum, malice aforethought.

In the process, several people who made the mistake of trusting “Hunter” had their personal identities, including employment information, compromised.  “Hunter” has not only failed to apologize for his reprehensible actions, but he has steadfastly lied about it shamelessly.

In short, “Hunter” has proven himself to be vindictive, volatile, and immoral. He deserves no position of trust in any project whatsoever.  Frankly, whoever promoted him to the TOQ position has not done due diligence.

Don’t take my word for it. Do the research; ask around (thephora.net). The threads of the inner circle plotting their moves were duly recorded by one conspirator who later decided to spill the beans.  You ignore this warning at your own peril.  “Hunter” is not a trustworthy person and your association with him is likely to bring you to grief.


120

Posted by Metal Gear on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 06:41 | #

“Hunter Wallace is known to have participated in an operation to phish passwords from innocent people”
They weren’t innocent.  Every person who was majorly compromised deserved it.  Starr deserved it.  Just as a few examples, Flak deserved it.  Il Ragno deserved it.  Azimuth/Prak Stal deserved it.  To name a few.

HAIL THE LYCUEM!

The only person who was somewhat compromised and didn’t deserve it was a poster named leopoldbloom, but the person who was responsible was later kicked out of the project and I’ve apologized to her.


121

Posted by Bill on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 08:09 | #

I’m posting this comment here for no other reason than this thread is attracting a lot of traffic.

I’m going through a rare moment of optimism at the moment but don’t really know why.  Perhaps subliminally it is for the very reason this thread is attracting a surge in traffic resulting in many monikers I’m not familiar with, it’s refreshing to read so many newcomers.

Anyway, this thread surge has a distinct state-side bias to it and I think it is this that is responsible for for my unusual bout of optimism.  Trouble is I still don’t know why.

Ever since I became aware, it has been my fervent wish to see the day when Cultural Marxism, (NWO, Globalism, Third Way, Communitarianism, Progressive Transnationalism, what is euphemistacally called here - race replacement,) is exposed in the media in all its glaring nakedness.

In the beginning I naively thought it would be the British National Party who would be the instrument of revelation, four years on however, though much progress has been made we are still a long, long way from exposing the true state of affairs to the mainstream.  Our recent election results tell us this is so.

The baton of stewardship of race replacement has been seamlessly handed from the Red team to the Blue team without err a tremor, David Cameron has revealed his Big Society plan to the world, I call it Communitarianism but almost no-one has a clue what that means.

And so the beat goes on.

Something is stirring big time across the pond, Obama is tanking, something called the tea-partiers is making growling noises, household names like (Pat Buchanan) are articulating white America and are bringing whiteness into the mainstream.  This is great news for me, America has surpassed England and is leaping ahead in the revelation stakes, something must be upsetting our branch and public face of the NWO (BBC) as we hear nothing of what’s going on over there.

Yes, on the whole things are looking up, but not for us I’m afraid, with the the BNP currently imploding we are regressing.  Still, it feels good to be optimistic occasionally.


122

Posted by Kevin Riley O'Keeffe on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:40 | #

Several times, when the subject of the many & sundry expulsions of the Jews from the various Kingdoms of Europe has come under discussion, an analogy has been drawn between them, and the proverbial drunk who gets thrown out of every bar in town.  The obvious implication is that if you get kicked out of one bar, then your claim that the owners of that bar are just a bunch of assholes (or that Edward the Longshanks was an irrational anti-Semite), may have some credibility.  But if you get kicked out of every bar in town, then the problem is almost certainly you.  This is what the seemingly perpetual drama associated with Hunter Wallace/Bradley Dean Griffin/Fade the Butcher/Prozium/whatever-he’s-calling-himself-this-week reminds me of.  Whenever this fellow is involved in any endeavor, huge episodes of enormously counter-productive internet drama, back-biting, in-fighting, betrayals, intrigue, etc., are never, ever very far off.  Such seem to be the innate fruits of having dealings with this person.  As Greg Johnson has so correctly pointed out, one’s relationship to this person is dictated solely by whether he likes you personally.

With that said, while I can’t honestly claim to like the fellow, I hope he eventually manages to get his head on straight, and to behave like an honorable man, and to basically cease all his tiresome bullshit in which he apparently specializes.  Most people haven’t known him as long as I have (since 2003), and they are thus perhaps more apt to give him yet another in a seemingly endless series of “second” chances.  I don’t think that’s a wise policy.  I think if he can demonstrate that he can behave himself for a period of, say, 3-4 years, then it would be reasonable to conclude he has matured, or improved his mental health, or done whatever it is he needs to do, but until such time as that has occurred, I would counsel that no one allow their affairs to be co-mingled with his.


123

Posted by J. M. on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:41 | #

“Metal Gear” wrote:

“Hunter Wallace is known to have participated in an operation to phish passwords from innocent people”

They weren’t innocent.

And you are?  Let’s bring this back into perspective:  You & “Hunter” phished passwords indiscriminately from people whom “Hunter” had known for years, whom he had no active quarrel with, and whom he (not you; no one was ever interested in your ghost town forums) had cordially invited to join his new forum, feigning to be moving on from the old quarrels.  These people had no reason to expect that anyone would stoop as low as you & “Hunter” had stooped.

Your actions & his were basically the equivalent of inviting over someone for a friendly dinner, and then rifling through his jacket and stealing his wallet when he wasn’t looking.  Real classy.

Of course, none of this would be worth mentioning if it involved only a socially handicapped, butt-hurt piece of mamzer garbage like yourself.  The incident is noteworthy because it sheds light on “Hunter Wallace”, the mental meltdown patient & ideological shape-shifter who presently styles himself some sort of WN superstar.  It’s time for people to learn about this history before “Hunter” can ensconce himself even more in a position where he can do real damage.  So, thanks for helping at least to confirm that it happened.


124

Posted by notuswind on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:58 | #

Bill,

Something is stirring big time across the pond, Obama is tanking, something called the tea-partiers is making growling noises, household names like (Pat Buchanan) are articulating white America and are bringing whiteness into the mainstream.

It’s hard to describe what’s happening over here right now, it feels like a great psychic compulsion has swept over the nation’s heart.  Even the conservatives in my family are now talking about the need for revolution.

Leon,

Who is the doughy retard in the prole costume, and why have these pictures been inflicted upon MR readers? I hope this isn’t supposed to be a typical WN??!! I myself most certainly neither look nor dress like that!!

Yeah, it looks like HW needs to take better care of himself, but that applies to a majority of our people these days (especially in the South).

Personally, I’ve been able to maintain a lean and muscular look without too much effort, but I am convinced that I’ve had a great deal of help from my genetics in this regard.


125

Posted by Bill on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:36 | #

notuswind on July 27, 2010, 03:58 PM | #

Bill,

Something is stirring big time across the pond, Obama is tanking, something called the tea-partiers is making growling noises, household names like (Pat Buchanan) are articulating white America and are bringing whiteness into the mainstream.

notuswind

It’s hard to describe what’s happening over here right now, it feels like a great psychic compulsion has swept over the nation’s heart.  Even the conservatives in my family are now talking about the need for revolution.

Thanks for that notuswind, this is what I’m picking up on my radar, faint as yet but gathering momentum.

I wish more of you chaps would give us here some feedback (occasionally) as the BBC (MSM) are telling us nothing, and if the BBC are telling then it’s not happening - it doesn’t exist.


126

Posted by Dan Dare on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:48 | #

The Cap’n cautions us that should the putative new White America not come to pass,  Europe will be forced by ZOG into the arms of Russia. One is entitled to ask: what for?

Economic protection? Well, hardly. The EU has the world’s largest GDP which is around seven times that of Russia. It’s rather like saying that a bellicose Europe would have the effect of forcing a renascent Euro-America into the arms of Canada.

Militarily? Don’t think that would really be the case either. Russian military capability is severely degraded since the end of the Cold War and is now scarcely able to defend itself.

Financial? Having thrown off the yoke of Wall St and the Fed, the Euros are hardly likely to be running to Narodny for succour. Besides which, seven of the world’s ten biggest banks are already European.

So no, it isn’t immediately apparent what Europe would be forced into the arms of Russia for. The two most immediate advantages for Europeans in a close alliance with Russia would be access to material resources, including energy in the short- to medium-term, the potential for agricultural production and, something that will strike a chord with yourself Cap’n, Lebensraum.

The reality is that in a national Europe that stretched from Lisbon to Vladivostok, Russia would not be capable of acting out the role of bitch-momma that you claim; it would merely be one of the larger players in an enlarged EU, along with Germany, France and the UK.

A far more likely scenario than the one you sketch is, I’d suggest, that a balkanised and internally fractious US will become itself the Imperial granary and woodstore for the new Chinese Empire.


127

Posted by notuswind on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:53 | #

Bill,

I wish more of you chaps would give us here some feedback (occasionally) as the BBC (MSM) are telling us nothing, and if the BBC are telling then it’s not happening - it doesn’t exist.

I know what you mean, it’s the same damn thing with our legacy media here as well.  Thankfully we do have an alternative network of conservative media that will report things that the mainstream media will not, but like all conservatives they have blind spots of their own.

Also, the vastness of the United States complicates matters as well.  I can only speak for a certain segment of the country in the South, Midwest, and Mountain West.  What is going on in the hearts of [White] Americans in either the Northeast or West coast is somewhat of a mystery to me.


128

Posted by notuswind on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:06 | #

Dan,

Economic protection? Well, hardly. The EU has the world’s largest GDP which is around seven times that of Russia. It’s rather like saying that a bellicose Europe would have the effect of forcing a renascent Euro-America into the arms of Canada.

I agree.  If Europe was capable of coming together in the form of a semi-united Confederacy it could easily conduct its own affairs with relative impunity.

A far more likely scenario than the one you sketch is, I’d suggest, that a balkanised and internally fractious US will become itself the Imperial granary and woodstore for the new Chinese Empire.

The very idea of a Chinese empire is an oxymoron.

Still the question of where China is going to get its food, water, and industrial raw materials is a serious matter.  China cannot meet her own demand internally as its communist government as fouled the Chinese nest to such a degree that is unimaginable for Westerners.  At the moment she is trying to get these things from Indonesia, Africa, and Latin America but I suspect that the latter two will prove problematic in the long-term.

I also suspect that the current Chinese government will fall within the next few decades; its trajectory is no less disastrous than that of the United States but for different reasons.


129

Posted by Metal Gear on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:46 | #

And you are?  Let’s bring this back into perspective:  You & “Hunter” phished passwords indiscriminately from people whom “Hunter” had known for years, whom he had no active quarrel with, and whom he (not you; no one was ever interested in your ghost town forums) had cordially invited to join his new forum, feigning to be moving on from the old quarrels.  These people had no reason to expect that anyone would stoop as low as you & “Hunter” had stooped.

Well he accused the phora of promoting child pornography by use of the pm system!  moving on?  Well that’s an interesting definition of moving on.  The phora used to be called the lyceum, and he joined in as the final recruit (yes I was there before he was) in a project that was designed to steal traffic away from the phora.

Daniel Shays (the real owner of the forum, despite the fact that you try to show this as some wn infight) made an offer to mod every poster who gets banned on the phora.  Moving on?  Don’t think so.

We never pretended to let the past go.

You speak of activity on forums, but activity from who?  Backwoods rednecks who say “white pride world wide” 50 posts a day from their trailers while promoting national socialism and not knowing what it is.  I think I’d pass on that.  If I played the part of a retarded white nationalist talking about “the jewz r underneith myk bedshee4tz” I would easily get a bunch of worthless stormfront and vnn posters to post.  But I would accomplish nothing.


130

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:57 | #

Dan,

The discussion viz-a-vis Russia refers to a nationalist movement of old Europe in advanced conflict with a coming majority population of 70 to 90 IQ North Africans, Asians and SSA’s, large numbers of them Moslems, and seeking a powerful ally to tip the balance.  It isn’t about the proto-superpower Europe of today.


131

Posted by Captainchaos on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:38 | #

Russia is presently in decline, but Putin is taking active steps to stem this; and at a certain point, Russia will be ascendant.  Whereas Europe, unless changes that are no less than revolutionary are taken, will continue to decline.  In future Russia will be able to dictate the terms on which it will come to Europe’s aid, if at all.


132

Posted by Jack Donovan on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:45 | #

I’m going to go ahead and clear up some things about my work, which can be verified by anyone who actually bothers to read the material in question.

1. First of all, my first book, Androphilia was not:

a tome which suggests that masculine men should embrace homosexuality

It was exactly the opposite. It was a criticism of the gay left and its celebration of effeminacy. It was aimed at homosexual men, not straight men, and the point was for homosexual men should—homosexuality aside—still try to hold themselves to the same standards of masculinity as straight men do.

You can disagree with this or say that it is impossible for a homosexual man to be masculine in any way—which would be an opinion—but I invite any reader of this thread to actually read the reviews (real reviews, not just Amazon reviews) of the book. The gay community hated the book, and they were supposed to, because it was written to expose their echo chambers, lies, motives and disinformation.

Basically, Androphilia was an attempt to give a voice to homosexual men who are disgusted by gay pride parades and the compulsory left wing perspectives that characterize the gay community.

The book does not sell homosexuality to a straight audience in any way. Further, I wrote an essay years ago condemning homosexual men who hit on, take advantage of, or try to “convert” straight men.

“Why I treat straight men like married women.”
http://www.jack-donovan.com/androphilia/essays/why-i-treat-straight-men-like-married-women/

Most of my friends are straight guys, and the last thing I want for them is for them to “turn” homosexual.

2. I am probably one of the very few homosexual men who actually understands the population/demographics problem white people are facing as a result of feminism, the degradation of marriage and reproductive expectations and the elevation of sexual hedonism. I’m 35, I grew up in liberal America, and I didn’t figure this stuff out until a few years ago. As I see it, I’m probably not going to have kids at this point, but I can write about the importance of that and get people who will never look at “beyond pale” sites like this to start recognizing the problem and re-thinking the way they look at these issues. My position is not that homosexuality is great and everyone should try it, but that it is a consistent feature of human populations and demonizing a recurring 2-5% of the male population is wasteful. They shouldn’t be getting married, but they should be working for society instead of against it. They should be supporting reproductive families. Heterosexual sex is better for a society than homosexual sex, but homosexual sex happens and homosexual orientation is fairly intractable by a certain age, so make those guys part of the solution instead of what they are now—part of the problem.

I made this case at length, here, as I argued against same-sex marriage (as I did in Androphilia in 2007):


“The Homosexual Question -
Why Same-Sex Marriage Is Still Wrong, But Repealing DADT Is Right”

http://www.alternativeright.com/main/blogs/left-right/the-homosexual-question/


3. Some folks have suggested that my support for repealing DADT is some sort of lurid macho porno fantasy thing, but actually from a rational perspective I think military service should be compulsory in any sane society. No man should have authority in a country whose borders he isn’t willing to help defend. This would solve the problem we have with a growing number of poorly socialized, adolescent, effeminate males who believe the noble savage John Lennon fantasies about peace and love the leftist media sells them.

4. About the suicide essay - again, my actual view is mischaracterized. The ideal of honorable suicide exists in many of the more militant western cultures, where fear of death is stigmatized as cowardice. The Christian (meaning, of Jewish origin) view is that one must always stick it out to the end because it is some way God’s plan. I of course never advised the the most honorable men to kill themselves, but rather said that in some cases it may be the best option and most honorable option. Christians believe that it is never honorable because redemption is always possible. Sometimes, it really isn’t. Say you accidentally burnt down an orphanage and wanted to atone for it.  Other times, the only thing you have to look forward to is becoming a burden to others. An old man with terminal cancer would be a good example. Or, say you committed a crime and have been sentenced to life in prison. If you were actually sorry, it would make sense to off yourself.

I am not suicidal myself, nor do I advocate men running around killing themselves because it is always the most honorable thing to do. Usually it isn’t. Sometimes, it is. The Christian view has nothing to do with honor and everything to do with obedience to God. Honor is more nuanced.

5.

You do get the sense that JD’s main aim is to find ways for masculine, un-pc men to remove themselves from the gene-pool. Or else to make them hate women and to remove themselves to what he calls ‘homosocial’ environments.

Modern women (my sisters as rare exceptions, one is a housewife and both are happily married with children) are not Traditional women. They want to act like men with none of the consequences, and still expect the fathers of their children to foot the bill no matter what they do or how many other men they have sex with. Modern women think “Sex in the City” is great. I applaud women who are not like that, but most have absorbed at least some of it.

I’m not saying that men shouldn’t have children, but they don’t have the same rules in their favor that they used to. If they can find a woman who would make a decent mother—they should definitely have at it. However, modern women rule our society and stay in power (and are statistically more likely to advance leftist causes) because they have managed to pull men out of homosocial (I didn’t make that word up, and it doesn’t mean anything sexual—look it up) environments (men have usually spent most of their time in civilized countries working outside the home with other men) and keep them from forming healthy male hierarchies.

6. Richard Spencer is not, to my knowledge, a homosexual. I’ve talked to him on the phone four times in my life. Smart guy. But not a homo as far as I know.

7. Finally, you can imagine I am whoever you want me to be and you will (I started my writing career by pissing off bitchy, gossipy queens, so this post is actually pretty light ad hominem...) but my interest in promoting masculinity is not really to bolster my own ego (I’m pretty average as men go) or construct some repressed Freudian sexual fantasy world (I’m a reasonably good looking guy and can get laid whenever I want to).

Actually, it is because when I started researching and writing about men and masculinity (and eventually, the plight of the West) I realized how important these things are. I understood things I didn’t understand as a younger man. I started to realize what a positive force ideals of honor and manhood can be for men, and how men of the West are floundering now in part because those ideas have been de-emphasized in Western culture. If you read my work thoroughly instead of projecting your own meaning onto a quick skim, you can see that intent. And I’m one of the few people who are even bothering with this topic. (I’d be happy to see more straight guys start writing about manhood and honor all the time. I’d love to see more straight guys do it better.)

This is probably why thinking men on the right occasionally give me a soapbox. If that gets your panties in a bunch, well, that’s OK.


133

Posted by J. M. on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:50 | #

“Metal gear”, I am not here to refute your rationalizations, distortions, and lies. 

I am here to answer Lurker’s question truthfully:  Yes, “Hunter Wallace” is known to have betrayed the trust of many, breaking into their email accounts and causing their identities to become known, in pursuance of a feud with a few, over what amounts to nothing.  He has lied about it ever since.  Let the crowd cozying up to “Hunter” be warned about what sort of person they are getting involved with.


134

Posted by Aryan Overlord on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:55 | #

All of this bickering here reminds me of petty womanly gossip, or backbiting Negroes, scummy Asiatics, treacherous Arabs, lying Jews.

Start acting like honorable White men and stop airing dirty laundry in public - it makes you all look like a ravenous pack of fools and buffoons.

I am reminded of a notable quote:

The—- is only united when a common danger forces him to be or a common booty entices him; if these two grounds are lacking, the qualities of the crassest egoism come into their own, and in the twinkling of an eye the united people turns into a horde of rats, fighting bloodily among themselves. If the——were alone in this world, they would stifle in filth and offal; they would try to get ahead of one another in hate-filled struggle and exterminate one another.


135

Posted by 2012 Worldshift on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:03 | #

I wonder if Hunter Wallace has made any more road trips to visit Morris Dees and his daughter down there in Alabamy during his latest episode?


136

Posted by Lurker on Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:49 | #

Thanks J.M.

There two things going on here; the petty womanly gossip and the hacking/password issue.

The petty womanly gossip, forget it, bygones, I’ve barely bothered to read the comments relating to that.

The hacking/password issue otoh is a major one, that has to be addressed. You can’t have that sort of thing going on, its a no-no.


137

Posted by Metal Gear on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:00 | #

I’ll agree with you on this much.  To the extent Hunter was involved (he wasn’t the main man), it’s disappointing that he responds by deflecting it.

He should take a more principled attitude that the phora had it coming, and it doesn’t matter what people think.  If he loses a poster, then fuck that poster.


138

Posted by Lurker on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:32 | #

I want to think HW is in the clear, he only has to explain.

I suppose I wont be getting any more comments posted at OD now.

Note to all:

Occidentaldissent no longer links to Majorityrights. Don’t know when that change was effected, I only just looked. Yay for synergy there!


139

Posted by Lurker on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:39 | #

Those pics of HW, pictures without context dont tell us anything.

That incident, the context, is covered somewhere on OD so I dont think their appearance here tells anything.


140

Posted by WTF on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:34 | #

Who is the doughy retard in the prole costume

That is “Hunter Wallace”


141

Posted by WTF on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:36 | #

Occidentaldissent no longer links to Majorityrights. Don’t know when that change was effected, I only just looked. Yay for synergy there!

OD deleted the link to Majority Rights within the last day.


142

Posted by Hunter Wallace's victim on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:20 | #

I was a member of Hunter Wallace’s ‘Lyceum’ forum, and Hunter Wallace hacked into my email account, got my credit card number, and paypal account password, got my resume that was an attachment in the email account that he hacked, and changed the password on me so that I couldn’t access my account.

He got someone named kane123123, who now calls himself Metal Gear, to modify the script of the Lyceum forum so that everyone’s account passwords were delivered to him. It was a phishing website set up for the sole purpose of hacking into people’s email accounts.

Please don’t associate with this guy. He’s no good. He can’t be trusted.

Hundreds of people know about his hacking activities. It’s well documented.

Stay away from this guy.


143

Posted by J. M. on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:30 | #

@Lurker - Well if you want additional context, there are old threads at Stumble Inn (a neutral forum) where the whole episode was discussed in detail contemporaneously, including proof of the client-side password encryption being disabled (sorry I don’t have the links immediately handy, perhaps I will organize this info a little better).  In addition, floating around is the saved html of the full archives of the Lyceum admin forum and “Metal Gear”‘s old forum where Hunter and company’s various infantile/perfidious/scumbag intrigues were plotted.  There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that “Hunter” was fully involved in this incident.

Don’t listen to “Metal Gear” about who’s to blame.  Like an emotionally troubled junior high school student, he thinks the whole thing is “cool”, and he wants full “credit”.  The fact is though that while “Metal Gear” was the flunky who mucked with the code, “Hunter Wallace” was the ringleader in organizing and persuading people who trusted him to join his rigged forum.  Metal Gear by himself would not have stolen many passwords simply because most people tend to avoid his presence, not seek it.


@“Metal Gear” a.k.a. “Kane123123” - Thank you for bragging about your involvement, and for advising “Hunter” to stop deflecting the truth of his.  The fact that you and “Hunter” are such chums speaks volumes in itself.  You two deserve each other’s friendship.


144

Posted by Metal Gear on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:41 | #

Should we not forget, that we broke into starr’s account using http://www.racerealism.com and a,t that point hunter wallace had ZERO involvement.

At that point it was ONLY me and Ixabert.  But Ixabert isn’t writing about that in his little “account of the events you are reading.”

So you’re wrong.

Hunter Wallace played a smaller role in this than anyone except maybe mazdak and b-pep.

The most guilty is me, the next most guilty is ixabert (he also hacked innocent people), followed by Daniel Shays, followed by berianidze, perhaps finally followed by hunter wallace.  Unlike Ixabert, I made sure I only harmed people who were somehow deeply involved with enabling the actions which caused my grievances, and it was ixabert, not me or fade, who changed people’s passwords.


145

Posted by Metal Gear on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:48 | #

Keep trying little man.  Keep trying to show that I “worked for fade.”  Keep trying little man.


146

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:13 | #

Iceman, WTF, and the others who’ve been keeping this issue alive in this thread, I dare say everyone’s now fully informed about what happened and we can finally direct our attention to other matters, no?


147

Posted by Greg Johnson on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:04 | #

Determining Brad Griffin’s precise degree of involvement in hacking The Phora is academic, since even on Metal Gear’s account, he is vicious and not to be trusted. 

This has been a horrible experience. There is no joy in this cause.

The odd thing is that I believe that the root of this whole outburst is Brad’s guilty conscience. Yes, he has one. He feels bad about his role in wronging me and another completely innocent party, who was driven to the edge of homelessness when his stipend was diverted to Brad as a bribe for his betrayal. Having taken the 30 pieces of silver, Brad began to endure the torments of his conscience.

The craziness is manifested in in how he dealt with his guilt. Classic projection. He set about convincing himself that I am an evil and unworthy person. Hence the farrago of lies and poppycock he has posted here. He set about convincing himself that intellectuals are the problem, and his identity and convictions began to mutate into the faux populist/redneck that has been on display at OD since late June, when http://www.counter-currents.com/ went online.

Maybe I could have headed it off just by calling him and saying: “Brad, if it helps, I forgive you for your initial betrayal. I know you are weak and gullible and were being manipulated.” As for all the crap since then: forgiving that is quite another matter. At this point, I think he needs psychiatric care more than forgiveness anyway.

Folks, I feel sorry for the guy. He is obviously a troubled soul. I have to keep reminding myself of just how vicious he is, and how every act of pity to him is an act of cruelty against the innocent people he has damaged and will no doubt continue to damage.

I want to thank the people here who have provided me with documentation of Brad’s past misbehavior. Reading the threads on hacking The Phora was pretty chilling.


148

Posted by Englander on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:43 | #

Kane/Metal Gear, you’re really lowering the tone with your presence. Please bugger off. You’ll still be blathering on about hacking the phora when you’re 50.


149

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:14 | #

Lurker: Occidentaldissent no longer links to Majorityrights.

Itself not a sign of stable character.

Incidentally, you, Lurker, are more into linking policy than anyone I’ve ever known.  Who else would ever notice the OD thing but you?  Maybe you should take over JR’s old role here.


150

Posted by notuswind on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:11 | #

The big question for me is whether HW had anything to do with Greg’s falling out with the people behind TOQ, because if not then HW only comes into the picture because he inherited Greg’s role and the money that came with it.  Unless HW somehow undermined Greg’s position at TOQ with lies and innuendo then this is all just a matter of money poisoning their relationship.

The stuff about some forum being hacked several years ago is hardly interesting to anyone other than the people who were involved.

The only thing I learned from those pictures is that HW isn’t very photogenic, but I am sure that there are plenty of other people around here who could say the same.


151

Posted by WTF on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:39 | #

The stuff about some forum being hacked several years ago is hardly interesting to anyone other than the people who were involved.

You think phishing passwords, hacking accounts, wreaking havoc in people’s lives, and compromising their identities doesn’t matter?


152

Posted by J. M. on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:53 | #

“Metal Gear”,

The most guilty is me, the next most guilty is ixabert (he also hacked innocent people), followed by Daniel Shays, followed by berianidze, perhaps finally followed by hunter wallace.

I suspect that no one is interested in this level of detail, but what I said earlier stands.  Neither you nor Ix (nor the marginal players Shays & Beriandze) had the charisma to pull off the Lyceum scam.  Hunter Wallace, and only Hunter Wallace (at the time) had the sort of residual popularity needed to draw people into the trap.  He was the criminal mastermind, or should I say the punk ringleader.  You were, and still are, just a punk.  This is an important distinction that you should bear in mind.


153

Posted by notuswind on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:06 | #

You think phishing passwords, hacking accounts, wreaking havoc in people’s lives, and compromising their identities doesn’t matter?

It matters but it’s in the past.

I fail to see its relevance to the current discussion unless you could show how HW pulled off a similar stunt against Greg Johnson or TOQ and thus establish a pattern of behavior.


154

Posted by Troll Detector on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:33 | #

I wonder if Hunter Wallace has made any more road trips to visit Morris Dees and his daughter down there in Alabamy during his latest episode? “2012 Worldshift”

Seriously, just because you keep repeating a lie over and over again is not going to make it true.

This is a very Jewey, Bolshevik and ZioNazi tactic—something almost right out of the ‘Hasbara Playbook’.


155

Posted by Obsidian on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:39 | #

If all that has been discussed here is true regarding Hunter Wallace, Metal Gear (kane123123), Daniel Shays, etc. phishing, hacking and blocking access to email accounts, stealing credit card numbers and resume information, then why has there been no mention so far in this extensive thread of any of the victims notifying the police/FBI?  If this shit is true, then there had to have been several laws broken in this scam operation.  Did Starr, Il Ragno, Flak, or others contact the “authorities” over the matter?


156

Posted by Hunter Wallace's victim on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:29 | #

I can’t speak for the others, but I didn’t notify the police because Hunter Wallace soon gave me my passwords and accounts back after I threatened him with the police. I forgive him for what he has done, but I don’t want to see the same thing happen to other people. That’s why I’m warning you guys to stay away from him.

Metal Gear is a personal friend of Hunter Wallace, talks to him regularly on AIM, so I wouldn’t believe anything he says. Metal Gear is trying to defend his friend Hunter Wallace, although even what he has let slip out still implicates Wallace in this entire affair. However, Wallace’s involvement was much deeper than Metal Gear is suggesting. Contrary to Metal Gear’s lies, Wallace owned the forum licence, he owned the web address, he was the chief administrator, he used his influence to invite dozens of people to the forum whom he then password phished, and he told Kane and others to modify the script so that people’s passwords would be delivered to him. All of this was revealed when the administrator forums of the Lyceum were released to the public where Hunter Wallace/Feyd discusses his plans against the Phora. Plus Hunter Wallace grudgingly admitted to the whole thing to me personally after he gave me my passwords back via a PM.

Stay away from this psycho.


157

Posted by Metal Gear on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:09 | #

You’re completely lying.

There was no authoritarian structure in which I “reported to” “my boss” Hunter Wallace.  Get your head out of the sand.

Once he figured out that I was succeeding, then he supported me, but he did not organize or have much to do with anything.


158

Posted by Obsidian on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:20 | #

I can’t speak for the others, but I didn’t notify the police because Hunter Wallace soon gave me my passwords and accounts back after I threatened him with the police. I forgive him for what he has done, but I don’t want to see the same thing happen to other people. That’s why I’m warning you guys to stay away from him.

Amazing!  You forgive him because he gave your info back to you?  What he did was unforgivable in my book, and you should have gotten the police involved after you got your info back. 

Look, this guy and his friends are extremely malicious, and in this instance, they broke the fucking law, even if one of them gave back the info they stole.  Given that they have no regrets (one going so far as to brag about it), one can easily see that they are people who haven’t the slightest compunction to hurt others and have little to no capacity for mercy.  Therefore, if they’ve gone after you, you should show no mercy toward them! 

Every person they scammed in their phishing/identity theft/blackmail operation should have contacted the other victims to get law enforcement involved as soon as possible.  If this wasn’t done (I still don’t know what the others did), then these guys have just learned that they can get away with this!  So now they are more likely to just do it again.  It isn’t sufficient to say, “These guys are really bad, they’ve gone after me, so please stay away from them.”  People that nasty must be struck back fast and HARD, otherwise they will revel in victory and will be further emboldened to go after others.

I’m guessing that HW, MG, Daniel Shays, et al were banking on the fear their victims have of their real identities being exposed and linked to their online activities at forums where they express racist and anti-Semitic opinions, which could affect their lives if those messages were to be conveyed to employers, friends, and such.  That could certainly be a scary thing, which is one reason why people use pseudonyms at online discussion forums and comments threads.  But when the aggressors go so far as to break the law (likely multiple laws in this case) and steal your financial, professional, personal, and other information with the intent of hurting you any way they can, then you must draw the line and go after them with criminal and civil prosecution.


159

Posted by J. M. on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:48 | #

Hunter Wallace’s victim:

Metal Gear is trying to defend his friend Hunter Wallace, although even what he has let slip out still implicates Wallace in this entire affair. However, Wallace’s involvement was much deeper than Metal Gear is suggesting. Contrary to Metal Gear’s lies, Wallace owned the forum licence, he owned the web address, he was the chief administrator, he used his influence to invite dozens of people to the forum whom he then password phished, and he told Kane and others to modify the script so that people’s passwords would be delivered to him. All of this was revealed when the administrator forums of the Lyceum were released to the public where Hunter Wallace/Feyd discusses his plans against the Phora.

This is true.  Thanks for reminding us.  “Hunter Wallace” owned the forum, and “Metal Gear” would not have had access to editing the PHP code in the first place unless “Hunter” had granted that to him.  “Metal Gear” apparently did figure out how to disable the encryption and record the passwords, but the plan could not have gone forward without “Hunter’s” express approval and proactive granting of the needed editing privileges.  Ultimately, yes, “Hunter” was the boss to whom “Metal Gear” reported.

The whole operation was planned in detail.  The opening of the the “Lyceum” (appropriately pronounced LIE-cee-um) password-phishing forum was vigorously marketed by “Hunter” for a certain amount of time, and then opened as a private forum, inducing people to join in order to obtain their “surprise” (yes, they marketed some sort of “surprise”;  this is how cocky the Lyceum scum were).  I could go on, but to the point:  “Hunter” was the both the chief administrator and the primary con-man marketing this scam, not “Metal Gear” or the other punks.

Incidentally, after the shenanigans were exposed, the Lyceum was promptly shut down, and remained closed for a year or so.  The database was then turned over to “Metal Gear” who reopened it under the new name, the “Firezone” ghost-town forum.  Note that “Hunter” retains an administrative presence at the place to this day (Warning: I recommend that you have Firefox with NoScript installed, before visiting this link, just in case!):

http://www.freemediaproductions.info/Firezone/member.php?u=627 

Take a screen shot before it disappears!


160

Posted by Metal Gear on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:58 | #

lies lies lies

Daniel Shays gave me access to the code and owned the hosting.

Fade merely redirected his url so that the forum would have a legit vbulletin liscense.


161

Posted by J. M. on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:34 | #

Obsidian:

I’m guessing that HW, MG, Daniel Shays, et al were banking on the fear their victims have of their real identities being exposed and linked to their online activities at forums where they express racist and anti-Semitic opinions, which could affect their lives if those messages were to be conveyed to employers, friends, and such.  That could certainly be a scary thing, which is one reason why people use pseudonyms at online discussion forums and comments threads.

This is precisely what makes “Hunter Wallace’s” perfidy so egregious, and why he must be exposed and denounced for what he did.  One would reasonably assume that only a degenerate or an anti-White agent would violate the anonymity of people who are expressing dissident opinions on un-PC Internet venues.  We want people to join us;  the last thing we want to do is frighten them!  We want people to feel safe and secure so they will participate and communicate and learn.  Apparently, “Hunter” is not motivated by these considerations.  He seems to be ruled by his emotions.  He has a history of mental meltdowns, destroying his projects and (as of the Lyceum incident) tossing innocents under the bus over what amounts to nothing.  He touts himself as some sort of rising WN star, but judging from precedent, he is more like a ticking time bomb. 

Be wary.


162

Posted by Lurker on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:20 | #

Much as it pains me to face this, the fact that HW delinked OD from MR is telling. If this was just a fishwives squabble surely he would be big enough, looking at the wider picture, to overlook it.

Fact is plenty of people visit both sites, dropping that link hardly changes anything for those people, it just looks, at best petty. At worst, an admission of some kind. Sorry HW, wish it wasnt true but there it is.


163

Posted by Mike on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:29 | #

Greg, you seem butt-hurt that your ‘stipend’ was lost, and blame Hunter for it.

How much was this ‘stipend’ and other money you got for running the TOQ?

Who is this ‘third party’ who also ‘almost became homeless’ when you got fired, what is his relationship to you, and why was he also financially dependent on this ‘stipend’?

Was TOQ a full time job for you?  If so, why was it always late, the site rarely updated (and even more rarely with original content)

Why is the TOQ and other sites full of complaints about people paying for the TOQ print edition and never getting it?

If you (and this ‘third party’) were living off this TOQ donation and subscription money, why live in San Francisco-one of the most expensive cities in the world?

Was there any reason other than Hunter why you got fired?

The books you are now selling on Counter-currents, where did you get those?  You didn’t steal those from your old employer, did you?


164

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:00 | #

Lurker,

I always have my reasons.

1.) Majority Rights was delinked because GuessedWorker has decided to neglect his website and allow anonymous drive-by trolls and shit stirrers to disseminate libel and poison the productive discussions here with off-topic rumors about friendly sites. If memory serves, this is the same policy which drove off several of his best contributors a few years ago.

2.) Majority Rights was delinked because GuessedWorker said above that OD wasn’t a “serious nationalist medium.” He never retracted that statement after I pointed out to him that his comment was merely stuck in the spam filter.

3.) Majority Rights was delinked because of its lack of reciprocity. When anonymous trolls and shit stirrers have come on our website to trash Majority Rights, I have personally deleted their comments before they made it through the filter. Granted, I haven’t zapped every one of them (we get hundreds of comments), but I do zap them when I come across them.


165

Posted by n/a on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:11 | #

“Much as it pains me to face this, the fact that HW delinked OD from MR is telling. If this was just a fishwives squabble surely he would be big enough, looking at the wider picture, to overlook it.”

Chain of events leading up to this as I remember it:

(1)  HW politely criticizes retarded Michael O’Meara article from Greg Johnson’s site.

(2) O’Meara sputters that HW’s recitation of historical fact proves his ignorance—without producing any coherent counterargument. Johnson and O’Meara are very disappointed that HW fails to uncritically accept their ideas.

(3) HW politely criticizes retarded Johnson article.

(4) Johnson is even more butthurt.

(5) HW and Andrew Yeoman criticize “intellectuals”.

(6) Johnson insists (out of nowhere) HW is having a “meltdown”.

(7) GW piles on and plays along with the idea that HW is having a “meltdown” on no evidence whatsoever (aside from the fact that his comment got caught in a spam filter and he couldn’t be bothered to email someone at OD to check on the matter privately).

(8) OD delinks MR, and GW insists this proves HW is “unstable”.

HW has been by far the least petty out of the three.


166

Posted by Lurker on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:22 | #

I have no view on this “meltdown” stuff, people have bad days. As I said before, its the password hacking story that worries me.


167

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:28 | #

Mike,

You’re correct.

Greg Johnson didn’t have a problem with me until around April or May. From August 2009 until May 2010, I spoke to Johnson all the time. In fact, he would call every other day or every few days. We were always in correspondence throughout this period. I have eye witnesses.

Johnson knew about the so-called “psychotic episode” for almost a year. It was brought up last fall before the meeting in October. We knew about my problems with The Phora. He knew I wasn’t some kind of SPLC spy even though he recently started disseminating that libel around.

If I was a “SPLC spy,” why did Greg Johnson correspond with me almost every other day for almost a year? Why did he introduce me to his former associates?

He knows very well it was bullshit.

Why did Greg Johnson suddenly change his tune? We both know the reason. It was because of his own psychotic breakdown that happened back in April and May.

The facts you have stated are true. Greg Johnson is merely a financially motivated rent seeker who is mad that he was fired for not doing his job.

In April and May, Greg Johnson must have called me three dozen times (and everyone else we know) to bitch and moan about money. His severance package. His back pay. His unemployment. His compensation. That’s all he wanted to talk about at the time.

He finally got his money after making various threats.

That was the fundamental reason I became disillusioned with him. For a year, all Greg Johnson wanted to talk about was how great TOQ was and how everyone should build up their websites, but then he spun around on a dime, went on a rampage of financially motivated destruction.

It wasn’t until April that we saw the real Greg Johnson: the one who cared and talked about nothing but money, the one who threatened to destroy Sam’s life and career over money, the one who threatened (and tried) to destroy his former organization over money, the one who harasses me to this day over money.

Greg Johnson wrote for TOQ Online less than 20 times. While he was TOQ Editor, he posted over 55 blog entries from me alone on TOQ Online. Did I ever complain about my lack of compensation? When I wrote 660 blog entries for OD about White Nationalism did I ever complain about money?

We both know where Greg Johnson got all those books he is selling from, where he got that laptop from, what happened to all the TOQs under his editorship that no one can order anymore, why people would pay for subscriptions and never get their copy of the journal, why the journal was never caught up while he was in charge.


168

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:36 | #

Do I sound like I am having a meltdown?

Furious, yes. Psychotic, no.


169

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:58 | #

Greg,

I’m not suffering from any “guilty conscience.”

1.) When Alex Linder and Jim Giles attacked you in December, I leapt to your defense, and made a whole slew of enemies as a consequence.

2.) From August 2009 until April 2010, I allowed you to post over six dozen blog entries from my website, without murmuring a word of protest, or even entertaining the idea of “financial compensation.” Unlike you, I wrote to advance the cause, not because I expected to get paid to do so.

3.) When I found out you were losing your job, something you know wasn’t remotely my fault, as I didn’t even know about your problems until April, I went so far as to tell your boss that I would do your job for you (i.e., the TOQ back issues), if that would suffice to make the matter go away.

Remember that conversation?

4.) When I learned how dire your situation was, I not only told you about it, but pleaded with you to save your job.

Remember that conversation? Remember when everyone else told you the same thing?

5.) When I was offered the TOQ job, I flatly turned it down, and the reason I gave was that I wouldn’t betray a friend.

Obviously, I changed my mind about you.

That’s because you changed. You started talking about nothing but money. You started talking about how much you wanted to destroy others. You demanded that everyone else take sides - make your enemies, their enemies - in a dispute that didn’t involve anyone but yourself. You told your boss that you should have the power to fire him.

When you were finally fired, you literally went crazy, and refused to turn over property that didn’t belong to you. As far as I was concerned, that was the nail in the coffin of whatever case you had.

I did everything within my power to save your job, but then you made everyone who had tried look like a fool with your subsequent actions.

Everything I said above about you is true. You know it too.

Oh, BTW: as per your false charge about “bribes” and “thirty pieces of silver” and “stipends,” I don’t even work for TOQ anymore.

I don’t care about you or your fucking money which you care so much about. I don’t want a cent of it.


170

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:20 | #

J.M.,

Time to deal with your bullshit trolling.

1.) I never hacked the password of anyone.

2.) I never “data mined” anyone.

3.) I never hacked that stupid worthless website, ThePhora.net; although I entertained the thought of doing so, years ago, nothing more.

4.) The only reason Daniel Shays and kane123123 wanted passwords was to spy on that stupid invisible forum of theirs.

5.) The guy who really did hack The Phora, who really did “data mine” information, who really did harass people in real life, who really did bust into emails ... is actually a Phora member in good standing:

http://www.thephora.net/forum/member.php?u=5113

He has 884 posts on The Phora right now.

6.) When we found out this “Apollonian” was acting without authorization, we banned him from The Lyceum to rid ourselves of a troublemaker, and the he hacked our forum as well. In contrast, The Phora has restored his posting privileges.

7.) I was never the owner of The Lyceum domain, hosting account, or the vBulletin software. Daniel Shays already had that vBulletin up and running (i.e., Shadow Phora) before he renamed it The Lyceum.

8.) If “The Phora” were to disappear tomorrow, it wouldn’t be a loss to the White race. That’s like saying Something Awful or 4chan is of vital importance to the White Nationalist movement. How dare you violate the anonymity of 4chan dissidents!

Fucking please. “The Phora” isn’t a pro-White website. It is a website for time wasters, rejects, retards, and race-mixers.

Just go over there and ask ... what do you stand for? Their response: nothing at all, save the freedom to waste time and jerk off on the internet. Unlike OD, that website doesn’t have anything to do with the White Nationalist movement. It has spawned imitators like “Beer Barrel” and “Stumble Inn” which are similarly about nothing at all.

9.) Why was The Lyceum created in the first place? Because Phora administrators were outing the real life information of their members on websites like VNN including telephone numbers, real names, photos, addresses, in addition to making harassing phone calls and taking their nonsense off the internet into real life.


171

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:31 | #

Obsidian,

1.) Daniel Shays was owner of The Lyceum. He owned the domain, the hosting account, the vBulletin software, and the database. I was never the owner of that website.

2.) However, I was the owner of The Phora. I was the founder and owner of that website for close to five years ... until the current Phora administrators STOLE that website in 2005, not merely hacked it, but STOLE it.

3.) The shit about credit card information, paypal information, email addresses and so forth are all lies. I never cracked into anyone’s email account. The only person who had any desire to do so, Apollonian, is a Phora member right now.


“Hunter Wallace’s Victim,”

I’m also the Queen of England and writing to you from Mars.


172

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:49 | #

J.M.,

Please continue.

If you care so much about phishing, hacking into emails, harassing others in real life, hacking forums, data mining personal information, can you please explain why the guy who did all of the above - who was banned from The Lyceum for that specific reason - is an active member of The Phora at this very moment?


173

Posted by Greg Johnson on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:05 | #

Hunter,

You always protest too much. Yes, you and your sockpuppets (Mike and n/a) sound like you are having a meltdown.

When do you plan to seek psychiatric care?


174

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:30 | #

Greg,

I’ve known Jews who cared less about money than you do.


175

Posted by Greg Johnson on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:35 | #

Hunter, would those be the Jews who helped you with your phishing and hacking operations?


176

Posted by Greg Johnson on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:36 | #

That was cruel and unseemly. I am sorry for baiting you Brad. This will be my last post on this topic.


177

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 03:25 | #

Greg,

If dealing with people like you has taught me anything, it is that we should not automatically assume that someone who calls himself a “White Nationalist” is necessarily a better person than someone who is not. In fact, some of the meanest, most vicious people I have ever known describe themselves as such.

Just look at yourself: you are motivated by greed, hatred, jealousy, envy, revenge, and pettiness. You are a dishonest person. You suffer from physical and moral cowardice. You stole the property of others. You used people to promote yourself and cynically took advantage of their idealism.

Ask yourself the following questions:

1.) Did I lose my job because of Hunter Wallace? Answer: No.

2.) If I hadn’t lost my job, would I be saying any of this today? Answer: No.

3.) Am I better person - a more decent, moral person - than the black guy in the photograph above? Answer: No.

I’ve spent a lot of time lately pondering a troubling thought: Jeffrey Imm has caused me fewer problems than people like you, Alex Linder, and these idiots from The Phora.

Why is that?

The blacks have an idiom that aptly describes our predicament: crabs in a bucket.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

Crab mentality, sometimes referred to as crabs in the bucket, describes a way of thinking best described by the phrase “if I can’t have it, neither should you.” The metaphor refers to a pot of crabs. Singly, the crabs could easily escape from the pot, but instead, they grab at each other in a useless “king of the hill” competition which prevents any from escaping and ensures their collective demise. The analogy in human behavior is that of a group that will attempt to “pull down” (negate or diminish the importance of) any member who achieves success beyond the others, out of jealousy or competitive feelings.

This term is broadly associated with short-sighted, non-constructive thinking rather than a unified, long-term, constructive mentality. It is also often used colloquially in reference to individuals or communities attempting to “escape” a so-called “underprivileged life”, but kept from doing so by others attempting to ride upon their coat-tails or those who simply resent their success.

I have never seen a better, more apt description of the White Nationalist movement.

The harder you work, the more you sacrifice, the more you step up to the plate, the more you push yourself, the more you try to get things done ... the more you are attacked.

In this past year, I have written 600+ blog entries promoting White Nationalism. I have driven across the entire South. I have attended rallies. I have confronted the enemy in the streets. I have spent countless hours trying to wake up people to their racial demise ... and I am attacked more frequently than ever before, not by our avowed enemies, but by people who are ostensibly on our side.

In contrast, a race traitor like James Webb or a libertarian like Ron Paul, neither of whom can be remotely considered White Nationalists, will get praised by White Nationalists for saying one or two things they like.

A friend of mine recently pointed this out: White Nationalists see what they want to see in non-White Nationalists, but will always look for the faults in their own.

The White Nationalist movement is a bucket of crabs. The minute anyone tries to do something positive; people like you, Jim Giles, and Alex Linder will tear them down. That’s one of the major reasons the movement never goes anywhere.

The only way to escape a “crab bucket” is to do it alone.


178

Posted by J. M. on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 03:58 | #

“Hunter Wallace” the password phisher wrote:

J.M.,

Time to deal with your bullshit trolling.

Telling the truth about your history of instability, lies, and perfidy =/= “trolling”.  No one owes you anything, “Hunter”, least of all the complicity of silence.  It’s about time people learned what sort of person you are.

1.) I never hacked the password of anyone.

2.) I never “data mined” anyone.

You specifically deny hacking and data mining.  But, you cannot deny that you were the most prominent person drumming up traffic into the Lyceum, knowing full well that the forum had been modified to phish passwords.  You cannot deny that you were an active conspirator of the password phishing, which directly resulted in the hacking and data-mining.  You cannot deny that you betrayed numerous people who had no beef with you, deliberately, with malice aforethought.  You cannot deny your blame for what happened.

3.) I never hacked that stupid worthless website, ThePhora.net; although I entertained the thought of doing so, years ago, nothing more.

4.) The only reason Daniel Shays and kane123123 wanted passwords was to spy on that stupid invisible forum of theirs.

“Only reason”? Are you suggesting that the password phishing was justifiable or responsible?  You deny personally logging into the Phora using stolen passwords;  it’s undeniable that you knew about the password phishing in the first place.  That’s quite enough to nail your sorry ass to the wall in the courtroom of public opinion, I’m afraid.

5.) The guy who really did hack The Phora, who really did “data mine” information, who really did harass people in real life, who really did bust into emails ... is actually a Phora member in good standing:

http://www.thephora.net/forum/member.php?u=5113

He has 884 posts on The Phora right now.

6.) When we found out this “Apollonian” was acting without authorization, we banned him from The Lyceum to rid ourselves of a troublemaker, and the he hacked our forum as well. In contrast, The Phora has restored his posting privileges.

More weaseling.  You speak as if I defend or excuse Apollonian in the slightest.  I don’t, though I have to admit that his release of the private Lyceum scumbag logs was certainly helpful.

Nevertheless, you make an bizarre point.  Do you seriously pretend to be better than “Apollonian” because you were planning to use stolen passwords in some putative “authorized” manner?  Who or what, in your feverish fantasy, “authorized” you and your fellow punks to steal passwords in the first place?

You are so full of yourself, and your rationalizations are so twisted, that it’s really hard to find the words to describe your mentality.  You have the gall to suggest your “authorization” to use stolen passwords.  Please, GMAFB. 

7.) I was never the owner of The Lyceum domain, hosting account, or the vBulletin software. Daniel Shays already had that vBulletin up and running (i.e., Shadow Phora) before he renamed it The Lyceum.

It was essentially marketed as your project.  You willingly placed your reputation and organizational efforts behind it, knowing that the goal was to phish passwords.  Sorry, but that stink doesn’t wash off that easily.  Sucks to be you.

Again, try to keep your eye on the ball, weaselly one:  Passwords were phished under your watch and with your express approval.  At the very least, you knew what was happening.  If you did not approve, all you had to do was disavow the project and warn others before they became victims.

But you did not do that, did you.  You thought that you and your merry band of punks could get away with your sordid little plan, didn’t you.  Too bad; you gambled with your reputation and you lost, big time.  You are never, ever going to live any of this down.  You are a known piece of garbage, and you have no business pretending to be a WN leader of any sort.  And people are definitely going to learn the truth about you. 

8.) If “The Phora” were to disappear tomorrow, it wouldn’t be a loss to the White race. That’s like saying Something Awful or 4chan is of vital importance to the White Nationalist movement. How dare you violate the anonymity of 4chan dissidents!

Fucking please. “The Phora” isn’t a pro-White website. It is a website for time wasters, rejects, retards, and race-mixers.

Just go over there and ask ... what do you stand for? Their response: nothing at all, save the freedom to waste time and jerk off on the internet. Unlike OD, that website doesn’t have anything to do with the White Nationalist movement. It has spawned imitators like “Beer Barrel” and “Stumble Inn” which are similarly about nothing at all.

If you were to disappear tomorrow, it wouldn’t be a loss to the White race either, but that doesn’t justify me stealing your wallet does it? 

Wound up with your petty little feelings, you’re missing the bigger picture.  Protecting Internet anonymity serves WN more than violating it (which is a purely practical consideration, aside from any ethical consideration—ethics is clearly not your strong point though, is it).  People have to start talking freely somewhere.  There are good people at the Phora, and it serves its niche in the larger scheme of things. 

Ultimately, nothing in your line of reasoning here justifies your perfidy.  You are neither logical nor particularly intelligent. 

9.) Why was The Lyceum created in the first place? Because Phora administrators were outing the real life information of their members on websites like VNN including telephone numbers, real names, photos, addresses, in addition to making harassing phone calls and taking their nonsense off the internet into real life.

No, one person from that forum drew attention to information that was already easily found on the Internet.  That’s not “outing”.  As far as the phone calls and some of the other OTT stuff, I don’t defend or excuse that, but that does not justify your behavior, either.

In short, no rationalization of yours can remove the black mark from your reputation.  Perhaps for an expression of sincere contrition for your wrongs, and some passing of time, will help.  I’ll leave that for you to mull.  To think that you are going to live this down by denying your complicity and become some big WN leader is pretty damned nuts.  So nuts that perhaps you should check into having your medication adjusted. Again.


179

Posted by Greg Johnson's Sock Puppet on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 06:11 | #

HW, the crabs dragging you down are your own sordid past, your own vicious character, and your own mental illness, which is what leads you to project your own faults on others.

Keep it up. People are feeling sorry for you, because you have so thoroughly discredited yourself, and because you have taken such a beating. So you need to come back from time to time to remind them of what you are.


180

Posted by Metal Gear on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 06:59 | #

You also allow people to sign up on other websites, impersonate the identities of other members, and come back and brag about it in your petty shoutbox.  “ha ha ha.  I posted this using the kane123123 handle and now he’ll get banned from this blog.”

And false accusations of plagiarism.

You got what you deserved.

I used to be agnostic towards white nationalism and supportive of race realism.  Now when someone calls themselves a white nationalist, I look at them with extreme suspicion.


181

Posted by Leon Haller on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:33 | #

OK, just one thing I do not understand.

From the pictures of one “Hunter Wallace” posted above, this guy looks like he’s about 18 - a young looking 18. WHY is such a youth being given ANY credence in WN circles? Why was he granted ANY involvement with TOQ - which I have hitherto assumed was a serious academic journal of the racialist right?


182

Posted by Magi on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:39 | #

@Kane “I used to be agnostic towards white nationalism and supportive of race realism.  Now when someone calls themselves a white nationalist, I look at them with extreme suspicion. “

Who cares what you think jew?

Why is HW friends with kane anyway? Why do they always have each others backs? Why does HW have such a close bond with a jew ?


183

Posted by asdf on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:01 | #

I will not delete this exchange, notwithstanding the grievance-nursers it has pulled in.  It is not our business to pretty-up the face of WN.  If it isn’t pretty enough that is only because the natural part of our people’s interests have been neatly excised from public discourse and from the political domain, and confined to the margins where marginal personalities abound.  Our politics should be the underlying norm or, perhaps, the framework, the meta-politics, for all the politics of European peoples.  The inversion is complete.  But it will never be corrected unless we face up to our own reality as well as all the other realities of the times which we are only too happy to expose. — GW

Guessedworker,

I don’t have any particular love for Hunter’s apparent belief in sufficient WN intellectual thought, but allowing this sort of rubbish on the website will put newcomers off, especially those of the English persuasion who currently worship appearances and value preening and prancing in public. Why deliberately sabotage the political communicability, as well as decrease readiness for linkage to the slumbering of the entries here by tolerating the unnecessary dramatic garnish? Why force a catch-22? The enemies never do that.


184

Posted by Greg Johnson's Sock Puppet on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:15 | #

HW is about 30.

Yes, it boggles the mind that he was given any responsibility, including access to websites, financial records, subscription records, donor records, etc.

Somebody just got giddy and threw all precautions and vetting aside.


185

Posted by Captain Ron on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:12 | #

I think it’s a tremendous and interesting political situation.


186

Posted by Notus Wind on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:58 | #

A lot of drama in this thread.

I don’t mean to brag but it looks I called it when I speculated that it was a matter of money that poisoned the relationship between Greg and Hunter.  Greg didn’t perform his job well enough to the satisfaction of the people behind TOQ and that led to Hunter inheriting his revenue stream.  This fact alone is sufficient to explain everything that has transpired since Greg’s departure from TOQ, all the rest is just mudslinging.


187

Posted by Tony Tough Tits on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:27 | #

Hutner wallace said Jews are white but g reg johnson is a whitenationalist and says jews aren’t white so he’s part of the problem with h is ideologies


188

Posted by Notus Wind on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:37 | #

Hutner wallace said Jews are white but g reg johnson is a whitenationalist and says jews aren’t white so he’s part of the problem with h is ideologies

Retrospectively, I think that the political differences that have taken place between Hunter and Greg over the past few months shouldn’t be taken at face value and should be interpreted as an alternative channel for voicing their real complaints.


189

Posted by PF on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:15 | #

Leave all this up! Leave it up, every sordid quip of this nonsense!

This is a monument and memorial to what befell this particular group of WN bloggers.
It is a cautionary tale about whom not to trust.


190

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:23 | #

J.M.,

I’m assuming you came here from the trash pile that is “The Phora.” In ten years, “The Phora” (a website for worthless time wasters and navel gazers), which I quit reading years ago, hasn’t done a single positive thing to advance White Nationalism in North America.

But anyway, let’s continue this discussion over this obscure, irrelevant garbage vBulletin forum, as it seems to be of such importance to you.

1.) I didn’t “hack” or “data mine” anyone. On the contrary, I banned the guy who was doing that without our permission; the one you have embraced on your forum, who posts there to this day.

2.) Kane and Daniel Shays didn’t create The Lyceum to “phish” passwords from anyone. They modified the forum for they could get the password of a Phora administrator - to spy on that stupid, invisible forum of theirs, and for no other reason.

3.) The guy who “hacked” and “data mined” The Phora posts there today. Thus, I don’t see what you are complaining about. If you had a problem with any of these things, “Apollonian” would be a Phora member today.

4.) Absolutely.

You forgot to include the essential context: Phora administrators were outing the real life identity of kane123123. You had posted his name, telephone number, photograph, and address on your website. You were harassing him at home, make prank calls to his parents, deliberately posting trollish information in order to hurt his changes of getting a job.

It was your stupid, immature 4chan-like behavior that caused kane (with good reason) to strive to keep tabs on you. You people started every bit of that shit with him. Then you whine when he strikes back. Just as you are whining here today about something you don’t even care about.

I would be absolutely justified in “hacking” The Phora if I wanted to do so. It’s not like you people STOLE THE ENTIRE WEBSITE from me.

5.) Everyone please note - the guy who hacked The Phora, who data mined people, who busted into emails, who phished passwords, who did all the awful things these people complain about, who is the real security risk - was banned by The Lyceum, but was accepted back at The Phora where he is a member in good standing today.

Nothing “J.M.” here says can be taken seriously. I didn’t hack any website, crack any password, steal anyones credit card email, harass anyone in real life ... the only person who did any that is one of their own members, who I banned for doing just that.

6.) That’s a lie.

From the beginning to end, The Lyceum was Daniel Shays website. He was always acknowledged as the owner and chief administrator. Daniel Shays and kane123123 still have that forum up today. It’s called Firezone now.

7.) The Lyceum was created because The Phora had degenerated into a bad joke. Five years ago, it was one of the most popular pro-White discussion forums on the net. It has since degenerated into an unreadable trash pile. OD has been around a year and already gets 5 to 6 times as much traffic as The Phora.

As for the “password” thing, that was an afterthought. The only reason kane123123 hacked anyones password was to spy on that stupid, invisible forum at The Phora because Phora administrators were literally harassing him in real life, even to the point of contacting his employer and parents.

All kane123123 did was phish a stupid password in retaliation. You tried to cause him financial harm in the real world because you considered it “fun” to troll people.

8.) Oh, you care about “internet anonymity” now. If that is the case, please explain why you started the whole episode with kane123123 by violating his internet anonymity, by trying to out him and relentlessly harassing him in real life.

Then you can explain why the guy who hacked The Phora, who phished passwords, who harassed people in real life, who broke into emails, who actually tried to steal credit card information ... is now one of your own members.

You are grandstanding here. If you seriously cared about “internet anonymity,” you never would have harassed others in the first place, nor would you have accepted back the guy who is a proven security risk.

9.) I never hacked any website, phished any password, crack any email, or harass anyone in real life. Yet you people harass me around the net whereas you accepted “Apollonian” back at The Phora.

Now why is that? It is because I built a new website that is superior in every way to your own.

10.) kane’s actions were completely justified.

You people started the idea of trashing, harassing, and trolling people for fun. You started the ball rolling of violating internet anonymity. Did anyone force you to follow a banned member all around the internet harassing him on other sites? Did anyone force you to call his parents or to try to injure his chances of getting a job.

That’s the smallest violin in the world playing for you.

You come here and whine about my non-existent hack on your website, but ignore the fact that you literally STOLE it in the first place, lock, stock, and barrel.


191

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:28 | #

Leon Haller,

If I recall correctly, years ago on Takimag you were trying to come up with “the philosophy” that would save the White race. Seeing as how we now have a mulatto president, I take it you failed in this grand task of yours.


192

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:44 | #

1.) Money does explain Greg Johnson’s behavior. Everyone who followed that fiasco at the time knows this. Greg Johnson must have made a hundred phone calls to people whining and complaining about money.

I was told, specifically by his associates, that I was going to be put on the “enemy list” for doing nothing more than posting articles from back issues of the journal on the TOQ website.

Ultimately, I decided that the ridiculous small amount of money that came with that job, which Greg Johnson is so obsessed with, wasn’t worth the trouble it had brought me.

I don’t work for TOQ anymore.

Greg’s behavior left a sour taste in my mouth and taught me an important lesson about White Nationalists.

2.) As for these Phorons, they are motivated entirely by jealously. I left their website and created a superior one. So they harass me around the internet to this day.

If they really cared about hacking, phishing passwords, internet anonymity, cracking emails, harassing others, they never would have accepted “Apollonian” as a member, who (unlike myself) was the one who did all of these things, nor would they have started the whole episode by harassing and outing people in real life for fun.

I don’t care at all about their stupid website. I don’t even read it anymore. The people who post there can rot in stupidity and collective retardation for all I care.


193

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:10 | #

GuessedWorker has allowed his blog to be hijacked by trolls. I’m out of here.


194

Posted by MR Resident Mollusc Army - Minoan Ghost Regiment on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:30 | #

Apropos of nothing, I’m going to start a running series of jokes about crazy WNs.

What did the crazy white nationalist say to the white nationalist who accused him of being crazy?

“You fucking mendacious nest of vipers, everything you’ve said about me was a lie!”


How many crazy white nationalists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

One white nationalist with six personalities inside him.


Three crazy white nationalists walk into a bar. The bartender says “What’re yall havin?”

“A pint of Guiness.”
“A pint of Boddingtons.”
“I dont care what you give me, I am about to rat out these friends of mine, and thats all that matters.”


A crazy white nationalist goes to the winter olympics. “What events are you competing in?” someone asks him.

“The 400-meter Giving Up My Friends-athon, the Winning Undeserved Trust Throws, and the 5 km-Run Away From All the People I Have Ever Betrayed.”


Feel free to join in.


195

Posted by Guessedworker on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:51 | #

Englander (to Metal Gear): You’ll still be blathering on about hacking the phora when you’re 50.

Not here, though.  I think we have had enough now.  If anyone is considering continuing the discussion, please refrain.

Hunter: GuessedWorker has allowed his blog to be hijacked by trolls.

Not really.  They are biased witnesses, that’s all.  In the end, it is better to be in a position to weigh their evidence than not, because ...

PF: This is a monument and memorial to what befell this particular group of WN bloggers.
It is a cautionary tale about whom not to trust.


196

Posted by Hunter Wallace on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:06 | #

1.) I didn’t hack a single password. Kane can confirm this.

2.) I didn’t crack into the email accounts of anyone. Kane can confirm this too.

3.) I didn’t contact the employer of anyone. Kane and Daniel Shays can confirm this as well.

I was an administrator on The Lyceum and nothing more.

Now, the person who really did crack passwords of email accounts, who really did harass people in real life, who really did try to stalk people, who really did “hack” The Phora - without our authorization, as the records show - was banned from The Lyceum for doing so.

You can find him posting on The Phora today as “Apollonian” where he has been welcomed back and embraced as a valuable poster.

http://www.thephora.net/forum/member.php?u=5113

Who are you people to talk about anonymity? Your website - VNN Forum - has tried to out my real identity and personal information. You have a thread dedicated to doing just that. Your website has been used to out the real world identities of any number of White Nationalists you dislike.

Your great leader Alex Linder also cooperated with the police in the Bill White trial. You handed over IP address information to the government itself. And let’s not forget the fact that you people coddle Traitor Glenn Miller who testified against Louis Beam and The Order at the Fort Smith Trial.

VNN Forum is the SPLC’s favorite White Nationalist website. Just ask Mark Potok.


197

Posted by Varg on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:30 | #

Apparently my comment was deleted (Even though I dont see how violated any rules, I just showed how HW puts jew kane123123 above other WNs). Oh well I posted the comment on VNN where anyone can read it, it only shows how HW puts a jew above other whites. You can read his posts on here and see that.

@ HW

1) No. I never have. Apparently we have different views on what a White Nationalist is. Someone who puts the privacy of a jew (kane) above other white peoples (thephora members who’s password you helped hack with kane) is not a WN to me. You justify hacking & outing other whites if they publish the information of a jew, even now. That is a fact. You are under the thumb of a jew, you are not a WN. I feel zero sympathy for you, jew appeaser.

So basically I ‘outed’ someone who is not a WN (you) and I posted that Greg Johnson (The name he publicly posts as) is homosexual, which you now agree with and finally admit you were lying about denying.

2) re: Bill White. You are obviously ignorant on the story (which I had nothing to do with). Try reading Bill Whites response to what happened instead for the real story, where he says Alex didn’t do anything wrong. You know for a fact if the govt came knocking on your door demanding for an IP of a poster you’d have little you could do (considering they could just go straight to the colocated server and forcefully take it). There are dozens of other ways they could have retrieved his IP, IE: they could have just gone straight to his ISP or our ISP.

3) re: Glenn Miller. I don’t coddle anyone. You think because I support current pro-white activism he has done means I support everything he’s done in his past?


198

Posted by Dan Dare on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:51 | #

Apparently my comment was deleted…


<h2>If anyone is considering continuing the discussion, please refrain.</h2>


199

Posted by Captain Ron on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:52 | #

Apollonian is a brilliant writer who is admired by many inside the movement.


200

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:35 | #

I heartily second Dan Dare.  And I ask permission of GW to go back and delete all irrelevant commentary from this thread:  GW, you’ve stated you don’t want to delete it, but delegating the task to me wouldn’t be “you deleting it,” would it.  How about it?  Everyone has had his fun, the party’s over, now I can go back and clean the thread right up.


201

Posted by Metal Gear on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:11 | #

I can sympathize with those who want an end to this discussion, because it’s really none of the business of majority rights.  I don’t understand or care to understand the fight between Greg Johnson and Hunter Wallace, and I’m sure neutral parties don’t care about the fight between the lyceum and the phora.  The ref is blowing the whistle and I suppose he’s right that it’s time to end this round before the audience revolts.  I really don’t blame those who are annoyed by fights to which they are neutral.  I think if I was neutral, I’d be annoyed too.


202

Posted by Guessedworker on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:22 | #

Fred,

I’m not sure what it is you feel you need to clean up.  There’s nothing very much to worry about here.  Yes, the thread was hijacked.  But it did not degenerate into a flame-war.  To quote Gudmund, it concerned some “gruesome details” which are much better out in the open, with both sides having the opportunity to correct the other, and with the uncommitted much better informed than they were.

If you really feel you must moderate, please use the lightest of touches.  I don’t think anyone would object to a bit of housekeeping around the edges, just to clean up the stuff one might, on reflection, not want to leave on the thread.  But I, for one, don’t want to wake up tomorrow morning to find great tracts of comment missing.


203

Posted by Armor on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:34 | #

If I ever have a public/personal quarrel recorded on some internet website, I hope the website owner won’t decide to keep it on the web as a souvenir, out of respect for The Truth !


204

Posted by J. M. on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:34 | #

Fred, I understand your position; GuessedWorker, I appreciate your patience.  I did opt to answer an off-topic question on your Web site that was guaranteed to shift the “Hunter Wallace” damage control machine into high gear.  I could say more, but I’ve already made the main points so I’ll save the rest for another time and place.

I do hope a few people did learn a little truth.

Best Regards,
- J. M.


205

Posted by Greg Johnson on Thu, 29 Jul 2010 23:19 | #

Fred,

I would appreciate it if you did not delete anything on this thread related to Hunter Wallace and me. (I have made PDF snapshots of the whole trainwreck anyway.)

Yes, “Hunter” says many things about me that are damaging. Just because they are false, that does not make them less damaging. But deleting them would not undo the damage anyway.

Fortunately, the people whose opinions really matter to me—my friends—know the truth.

Beyond that, I knew what I was getting into when I started writing under my own name. This is just part of the bargain, and I do not regret my decision.

Finally, I think it is better for the movement as a whole to keep this out here as a warning, so that Hunter Wallace is shunned, blacklisted, and never has a chance to harm another innocent person.

There are good people in this cause with far more to lose than me. If they are spared HW’s betrayal and unhinged wrath, then this will have been worth it to me.

The drumstick graphic was priceless. I think I will use it as an avatar.


206

Posted by Leon Haller on Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:51 | #

Posted by Hunter Wallace on July 29, 2010, 04:28 PM | #

Leon Haller,

If I recall correctly, years ago on Takimag you were trying to come up with “the philosophy” that would save the White race. Seeing as how we now have a mulatto president, I take it you failed in this grand task of yours.

Mr. Wallace,

I have no skin in this game. I do not know you, do not remember you from takimag, and know nothing of the goings on mentioned above, beyond what I’ve skimmed here. I am impressed that you remember my contributions to the taki-rag comments section, however, as the scumbag who was then the editor repeatedly (and, I continue to think, rather unfairly, if you’ll excuse the petulance) deleted my posts almost as soon as I put them up, though some of them did have value to those willing to learn, and not merely regurgitate their own sophistries.

The philosophy I am developing is not something that is produced either on demand, or overnight, especially by someone who does not have the leisure equivalent to a full-time academic, or paid activist. My views are welcomed here, for which I am grateful, but little appreciated, as I continue to argue more as a racial conservative, albeit a rare real one, than nationalist. The “philosophy” you allude to above indeed is/will be (it’s an ongoing project) a serious attempt to integrate racial preservationism with traditionalist (Christian metaphysical) conservatism. With not the slightest disrespect intended towards this site’s editor, who, along with several of his astute colleagues, is trying to work out his own racialist ontology, seemingly grafting a Heideggerian metaphysic onto a foundation of hard scientific materialism, I do believe my work will eventually prove more fruitful, philosophically, but also, and more importantly, pragmatically.

Doing serious reading in Christian theology, as well as mastering both the conservative and nationalist traditions of thought, involves a lot of slow reading (made slower by note-taking). My primary intellectual interests heretofore (post-college) have been in political, social, and especially cultural history (European, American, and Twentieth Century World); general intellectual history; anti-communism; libertarianism; free market economics and finance; popular science (and history and philosophy of science, with emphasis on the life sciences); and literature, especially classic novels of the nineteenth and early to mid twentieth centuries. Probably the bulk of my reading, however, has been in very generalist learned periodicals, mainly the TLS, the New York Review of Books, and The New Republic (all lefty, but good), but many others, too (most recently, Standpoint). (I’ve probably wasted a lot of time on the latter category, time that could have been put to more intellectually productive use, I admit, but the learned essay is my favorite diversion, and addictive.)

In the specific fields of Christian, conservative, and nationalist thought, I have only read, combined, about 130 volumes. Additionally, I’ve read many dozens of issues of the conservative quarterly Modern Age, every article written for more than two decades in the paleoconservative magazine Chronicles, every article ever written in American Renaissance, and the first few years’ worth of TOQ (I’ve fallen quite behind, but I intend to catch up).

Thus, though I’ve read a great deal worth reading in my life, I’ve only begun concentrating over the past few years on the task you have implicitly mocked above. As any serious scholar would attest, I obviously have a great deal more research to do. But I am slowly doing it, and its eventual product will be an aid to our people’s survival, have no doubt. 

One last point: Obama’s election is obviously irrelevant to my task, though I should point out that many of my taki-rag comments were written during or after the presidential campaign.

Yours still writing and fighting for the West,

Leon Haller


207

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:32 | #

Leon,

I do believe my work will eventually prove more fruitful, philosophically, but also, and more importantly, pragmatically.

Speaking for myself, I am not really interested today in the utilitarian argument.  I am not even interested, fundamentally, in the next step back from that, which is the pure activity of building ideas.  I am interested in carrying what is real to consciousness (in the particular sense I mean that) into the world of ordinary waking consciousness and daily life, which plainly includes the political.  Obviously the journey requires changes of form, Tam Lin like, as one goes.  But the ontological quality would be preserved while it remained true.

As I never got the opportunity to explain to Grimoire on the Ferguson thread, this is a process capable of communicating itself without reliance upon logic.  Therefore, it might be possible - if by no means straightforward - for one such communication to be by faith.  The trouble is, faith does not discriminate for the ontological in its perceived theological landscape (like the logician’s similar failure in his ontical landscape).  Faith is attachment, and it lacks qualitative discrimination.  People attach themselves to the ridiculous with the same vigour and tenacity they attach themselves to the sublime.

My views are welcomed here, for which I am grateful, but little appreciated, as I continue to argue more as a racial conservative, albeit a rare real one, than nationalist.

There is only what is true and what is false, and the former is always welcomed.

Incidentally, wouldn’t an ontological conservatism be a tight little feedback loop?  Where is the sweep of history and the dynamic of change?  Where is the traction?  If one was thinking from the utilitarian perspective, that is.


208

Posted by Leon Haller on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:59 | #

Fred,

Our thoughts on this are in sync. I only note that while Christianity certainly does not mandate race-replacement, the tough issues pertain to 1b). Christianity does not mandate open borders, either, but proving that requires a lot of knowledge and work, given at least the Catholic Church’s historic, if philosophically non-imperative, bias towards ‘welcoming the stranger’. The Church in its limited immigration theology always focuses on the immigrant (ludicrously seen as this lone, wandering soul, never the hordes we’re actually getting), rather than the immigrant’s effect on the settled community he’s entering.

The really tough stuff, which I am trying to work out, pertains to the use of force (state power) to maintain race preservation. For example, is it morally allowable for a Christian father to forbid a child from marrying another Christian, if he or she is outside his race? What about the State’s passing anti-miscegenation laws? Coercive expatriation laws - especially for those non-whites legitimately born on white soil? Trust me: these issues are not remotely ‘cut and dry’, and it’s a long theological path getting there, at least through Catholic thickets. Few churchmen at this time would agree with us (even though we are right).


209

Posted by Leon Haller on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:09 | #

GW, I would like to respond to your comment, but I have two problems. First, I want to read that article you posted on “traction” (along with some comments). I don’t have time this morning (CA/PST).

But second, and more ominously, I actually don’t understand what you’re saying. We use many of the same words, but differently.

I am interested in carrying what is real to consciousness (in the particular sense I mean that) into the world of ordinary waking consciousness and daily life

this is a process capable of communicating itself without reliance upon logic

I don’t understand what you’re talking about. Perhaps you could “dumb-down” your language a bit, and restate your thoughts for my benefit…

wouldn’t an ontological conservatism be a tight little feedback loop?

Similarly, I’m not sure what you’re asking here (though I only started to skim the “traction” post, so perhaps after reading it I’ll have a clearer idea).

My points above are fairly straightforward in conception, even if I can’t yet prove them, or buttress them with all the requisite academic citations. In very brief (as I’ve stated these matters before elsewhere at MR, and wouldn’t mind restating and reformulating them again, but in greater detail, for a newer thread):

1. Man is by nature religious. If he does not adhere to the old faith, he’ll transfer those religious impulses to more questionable projects, usually of secular utopianism (eg, yesterday Marxism, today multiculturalism), or else engage in inappropriate sacralizations (eg, much of modern ecologism).

2. Christianity at least coincided with Western expansion and dynamism. Correlation does not equal causation, but in big historical analyses correlation does carry some independent weight.

3. Christianity gives meaning to life. Atheism, I and legions of others would argue, does not.

4. A sense of life’s meaningfulness stimulates biological reproduction. Many Christian conservatives have wondered if it’s merely a coincidence that Europe’s birthrates have collapsed in tandem with its de-Christianization. Yes, feminism and the Pill have played big roles, as has the postwar welfare state explosion. But Christianity promotes marriage and family - and given feminism, contraception, and welfare, if we are going to boost Western fertility, it is only going to happen either via favorable pro-fertility tax incentives (which is having some positive effect in Russia, but I don’t see such legislation getting enacted in Western Europe or North America, except backhandedly through negative childcare tax credits, which really aren’t enough to stimulate artificial increases in fecundity; people in America have children or not regardless of tax credits, which can be helpful, but not dispositive), or because something psychological is compelling it. Religion is such a powerful shaping force.

5. The great clash of civilizations, especially on your side of the pond, is with Islam. All the vigor is with Islam. You don’t defeat that kind of moronic certainty with either rarefied, often self-referential, philosophy (really, ‘philosophical navel-gazing’) or hedonism. There needs to be some ideological/emotional counterweight. Ironically, for blacks, that actually could be race loyalty. Blacks are just the most racist, race-obsessed, people you’ll ever meet. Unfortunately, whites are differently ‘wired’, neurologically. (We aren’t, but many or most of our fellow whites are.) Christendom successfully beat off the Muslims in the past, and it can do so again, provided it can become again a fighting faith. For the Church of England the very idea must seem ludicrous, but not here in the US. I thought the Iraq war was a huge Jewish/neocon distraction, but there are lots of admittedly not too bright evangelicals who saw it in Good/Evil terms. We need to cultivate that kind of friend/enemy distinction and identification.

I’d like to write more, but I must stop now for personal reasons.

I understand your basic position, I think: the past cannot be resuscitated. You are trying to develop some type of racially positive philosophical meaningfulness in light of the twin acids of scientific materialism, and postmodernist scepticism. I don’t think materialism and scepticism are quite as well founded or lethal to tradition as you might, but that is a really big discussion. I do know that if we are going to save the West, we must save the white race, and if we are to do that, we need to figure out the most practical methods to persuade people to support immigration cessation, policies tending to increase fertility, as well as renewed racial and cultural pride, and concomitant rejection of multiculturalism and the cultural products of non-whites. Christianity at present is yet another barrier to what we want, but it could be an ally once again, if properly reconstructed.


210

Posted by Anti-papist on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:15 | #

The popish religion is no friend of Euroman.


211

Posted by Rollory on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:25 | #

Well this thread went off to some pretty strange places.

Mr. Donovan’s sole post might be the only one actually worth reading.


212

Posted by Captainchaos on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:33 | #

Mr. Donovan’s sole post might be the only one actually worth reading.

Donovan did everything to disabuse his critics of the notion that he is a breezy and narcissistic faggot whose mental pursuits are not in fact tirelessly focused on a cult of “masculine,” queer narcissism, but on the existential threat now confronting the White race.  Yuh sure.


213

Posted by Obsidian on Tue, 03 Aug 2010 21:25 | #

A bit late, but…  I recently found this post at the Phora regarding Hunter Wallace’s involvement in the hacking/phishing scam.  That post contains screen shots of Mr. Wallace using the name “Feyd Harkonnen” (referred to several times earlier in this thread) as he explicitly plots with his co-conspirators.  This is very damning stuff, as it shows clearly that he was not only aware of what was going on, but he really was directing it.  I only posted this because of its pertinence regarding Wallace’s dishonesty in this thread.


214

Posted by Trainspotter on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 06:58 | #

I can’t be certain, but apparently I’ve been banned from Occidental Dissent (immediately after Hunter claimed that the thought of banning me hadn’t crossed his mind).  Either that, or it is mighty coincidental that my response to Hunter Wallace has not appeared.  Normally, my posts appear immediately. 

Given that my response addresses several lies and misrepresentations Hunter has made about my position, I would like it to be seen.  Otherwise I wouldn’t bother. 

It’s longish even by my standards, but here it is, as written:

Silver: Personally, I don’t like trainspotter very much at all; I think he’s a royal prick (which is no biggie, since I think that of 95% of you).

Geez man, that hurts. LOL! I’m a little surprised by the rudeness, but then again, you are a New Yorker, right?  In any event, the rest of your post is pretty much spot on.

Hunter: I’m just wondering what is stopping you from creating this “revolutionary vision” seeing as how you are its biggest advocate. Nothing that I can tell.

I’ve already given an honest and straightforward answer to this.  Was my answer all that difficult to understand? 

Hunter: To answer your question directly, I didn’t create this website to articulate any “new vision” of the White Nationalist future. I took for granted that a consensus had developed around the ideal of a White ethnostate in North America.

Disingenuous dodge.  You were not always an advocate of the white ethnostate.  What made you change?  Was it white nationalist elves, or white nationalist ideas and arguments? 

Hunter: The thrust of my work here has been to translate that ideal into reality: through creating a White Nationalist media outlet, knitting together a White Nationalist blogosphere, creating state-based networks that could grow into grassroots political organizations.

Um…much of this involves the spreading of ideas.  Yet you ridicule…the spreading of ideas.  Makes perfect sense.

Hunter: I never said a “Jew-free, White ethnostate” was my idea.

???? Is anyone saying that you originated the idea?  What are you talking about? If you are going to make straw men, try coming up with something that makes a little sense. 

Hunter: What “childish, disingenuous nonsense” are you referring to? Isn’t that just another way of saying you are angry because I pointed out the obvious?

Your entire manner of arguing is disingenuous.  You distort and misrepresent.  For example, you continue to claim that my position is that if people read philosophy books, they will suddenly be inspired to hit the streets.  Absolutely ridiculous.  What I am actually talking about is quite simple: white nationalist ideas have to spread in order for the white ethnostate to come about.  As long as we are viewed as Martians, people aren’t going to support us.  Talk about stating the “obvious,” I don’t see how things can be more obvious than that. 

But apparently, according to you, people are going to support the white ethnostate, even though they’ve never heard of it, don’t understand it, and believe that you are a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.  That’s laughably, obviously nuts. 

The guy who posts here that is most involved in street activism, Yeoman, regularly spreads defeatism.  He believes that we will lose.  I’m not terribly surprised by this.  Our street activists will continue to get nowhere until our ideas have been successfully spread further into the culture.  This should be obvious, but you continue to take issue with it.  The proof is in the pudding, Hunter.  Why should people rally to something that they’ve never heard of, much less been persuaded of?  Why should they rally to something that nobody they respect has ever heard of? 

Hunter: You want a “revolutionary vision” to inspire the masses, you want action in the real world, you want a White ethnostate, you want to expel the Jews … but you are content to let someone else do all the heavy lifting and make all the sacrifices.

What sacrifices are you talking about?  You use a pen name, I use a pen name.  You keep claiming that I expect you to make sacrifices, and I’m tired of this false claim.  It is a lie.  I’ve been polite about this, but since you continue to press the lie, I’ll address it.  You aren’t a leader.  You don’t look like a leader, you don’t talk like a leader.  Those two things MIGHT be corrected, but you have other issues that prevent you from being a leader.  This is o.k., by definition the vast majority of people aren’t cut out for leadership.  You aren’t an exception to the general rule.  So I don’t know where you get the impression that I expect you to get out and man the barricades.  I most certainly don’t.  Your talent is in writing, or at least was until you started arguing like a Lefty.  You write under a pen name, like most people here.  Nobody is advocating that you take any risk beyond that.  So cut the crap about a “rotten deal.” Yet another example of your disingenuous misrepresentation of my position. 

The truth of the matter is simple: until our ideas spread further into the culture, our street activists are going to have a tough time.  Perhaps a very charismatic, highly capable guy might beat the odds, but the general rule will hold.  That’s the reality of the situation.  I’ve been a street activist before, as a libertarian, and I know what I’m talking about.  I’ve personally seen how ideas spread, and I’ve also studied historical movements.  The patterns are obvious, and it is mighty curious why you continue to deny the obvious, especially when you’ve said as much before. 

Using the internet, white nationalists have the opportunity to make our ideas appealing and attractive, and spread them far enough that our street activists will have something to work with.  Until that time, don’t be surprised when the guys who take it to the streets keep saying, “We will lose.”  Most people don’t rally around Martians. 

But here’s the thing, we’re going to win.  The ideas are spreading, and there is really nothing that anti-intellectual clowns can do to stop it.  They may be able to slow it down a bit with their lies and obfuscations, but not stop it.  Sorry, too late.


215

Posted by Rollory on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 08:50 | #

Oddly enough, I seem to be banned too.

Apparently people who say that opposition to Obamacare is Jewish manipulation, and should be defeated, and Obamacare preserved, are the sorts of commenters they approve of.  Such a useful and productive line of thought.

I’ve seen several people comment that Prozium seems to be indulging the most hard-line Jew-haters as a way of getting a foot in the door with the established hard right.  I really don’t see the point of this.  The truth is what it is.  It will come out, and white nations will re-establish themselves, likely when events conspire to bring about a proper crucible, without the need for indulging people who have drifted ever farther afield from the key bits of reality they do grasp.


216

Posted by Rollory on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 08:56 | #

“Donovan did everything to disabuse his critics of the notion ... whose mental pursuits are not in fact ... but on the existential threat now confronting the White race”

Donovan has never claimed to be a WN.  What he did do in that post is answer some of the specific charges in the OP with some specific details.  That it has little to do directly with white societies doesn’t take away from that.


217

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 09:24 | #

Rollory and Trainspotter, maybe it’s just individual comments that rubbed somebody the wrong way and got zapped, not that you’ve been banned.  As far as I know I’m not banned over there but Kievsky once deleted a few comments of mine in a row (together with a few of Tanstaafl’s as I recall) and ordered me never again to post comments in his threads.  I’ve posted comments since (I’m just careful not to post in his threads).

They’re freer with zapping over there now than any of Hunter Wallace’s previous sites were, but it may not mean you’ve been “banned.”

On the other hand, if they are in fact banning such able commenters as you two, they’re making a big mistake.


218

Posted by Trainspotter on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:32 | #

Fred, thanks. 

Rollory, it is possible that you have not been banned.  I myself was just able to post a test comment, though my response to Hunter’s misrepresentations has not appeared.  I don’t really care one way or the other whether I continue to have posting privileges there -  if I do I do, if I don’t I don’t.  But I would like my response posted.


219

Posted by Trainspotter on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 14:44 | #

To his credit, Hunter has now posted my response, though it was very critical of him.  I don’t particularly buy the explanation, but there it is. 

As for me, I’ll continue the debate on that thread as I deem appropriate, unless of course I am banned.  I think the subject is important enough to merit some time.  That may be a non-issue, as the thread could well have already run its course. Otherwise, I will be taking a vacation, perhaps permanent and perhaps not, from posting there.  At this point I can’t take the place seriously, though for now it does retain some quality posters/commenters.  I’m inclined to believe that it has jumped the shark, but we’ll see. 

To guessedworker, my apologies for using this thread to handle an OD matter.  I felt justified in doing so for several reasons: how Hunter is behaving is germane to this thread; this thread is dead enough that only people interested in the subject are likely to see it - it shouldn’t clutter up things for people who aren’t interested; the fact that I could post it here makes petty tyranny and misrepresentations a little less effective, which I consider a good thing. 

While I can’t be at all certain, I have a sneaking suspicion that the only reason my response was posted there was that it could be posted here.  In any event, those are my reasons, but I assure you that I will not make a habit of it.


220

Posted by Sam Davidson on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:41 | #

Trainspotter,

Brad Griffin aka “Hunter Wallace” is mentally ill. The man suffers from a mild form of autism, perhaps Aspergers Symdrome. It’s the reason why he spends weeks obsessing over unimportant figures like Jeffrey Imm and Guy White. He also fails to distinguish between friend and foe and to understand social norms. (I.e. he allowed obvious trolls like Yosemite, Friedrich Braun, and Veni Vidi Vixi to comment on his site, as well as allowing individuals to contribute rambling and offensive posts, ex. Mike Capatano)

Just leave the guy alone and move on. Public drama isn’t necessary.


221

Posted by Matt Parrott on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:06 | #

I agree with Sam that public drama isn’t necessary and that we should try to pick up the pieces and move on. However, I feel that I owe the community an apology for playing a peripheral role in persuading people to donate money to him. The puzzle pieces were all there, and multiple people attempted to reach me. I didn’t do the due diligence that I should have and I am sorry for enabling this destructive and humiliating fiasco.


222

Posted by Notus Wind on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:14 | #

Matt Parrott,

The puzzle pieces were all there, and multiple people attempted to reach me. I didn’t do the due diligence that I should have and I am sorry for enabling this destructive and humiliating fiasco.

The only thing that I was able to gather from this thread is that HW and Greg had a falling out that started with the changeover of TOQ.  But is there more to the story than that?

In the most dispassionate way possible, can you tell us anything about the order of events as you experienced them.


223

Posted by Matt Parrott on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:39 | #

Notus Wind,

His history of compromising personal information is available for you to review and arrive at your own conclusion.

His history of mercurial emotionally-charged political reversals is readily demonstrable. In fact, you can go to Occidental Dissent right now, the home of “unfashionable observations”, where Hunter Wallace is now investing his time and energy in trashing the White Nationalist movement in favor of mainstream Tea Party conservatism and “implicit Whiteness”. Several people, including myself, invested untold hours in that project, only to now have some of our best work hosted on an anti-WN website!

He’s typing anti-WN screeds on his anti-WN website, on a tropical island vacation, buying mixed drinks from scantily-clad Black girls, WITH MOVEMENT MONEY and your PayPal donations. Right now.

As Sam suggests, there’s no reason to engage him or even get angry. He’s mentally ill. He can’t help it.

I’ve made a complete ass of myself, and I apologize both to the several people who warned me and to the several people who I encouraged to get caught up in this circus.


224

Posted by Armor on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 21:39 | #

“HW is now investing his time and energy in trashing the White Nationalist movement in favor of mainstream Tea Party conservatism and “implicit Whiteness””

He has always used that method: he likes to defend a somewhat over-the-top point of view and let other people try to prove that he is wrong.

“Several people, including myself, invested untold hours in that project, only to now have some of our best work hosted on an anti-WN website!”

I’m glad it isn’t lost for me: I’ve been taking lots of notes, as many other readers. I think the contributors at OD have been doing excellent work, and it isn’t lost. If there is disagreement among some of you, and you start writing on separate websites, in smaller teams, it isn’t necessarily a bad thing. You can still check what each other is doing, both on the internet and in “real” life. The loss in momentum will only be temporary.


225

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 21:53 | #

“I think the contributors at OD have been doing excellent work,”  (—Armor)

I enthusiastically second that.


226

Posted by Wanderer on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 22:06 | #

I question whether the person(s) signing as “Matt Parrot” and “Sam Davidson” above are ‘real’. (The same ones who have written so eloquently on Occidental-Dissent.) Is there any way to know for sure whether it is “really them”?

No one abandons and stabs-in-the-back longtime allies so readily. I believe these to be imposters.


227

Posted by Jimmy Marr on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 22:17 | #

Matt Parrott,

You haven’t made an ass of yourself at OD. If Hunter’s train of thought was unstable, the locomotion of his insanity was not spotted by many of us until recently. And despite his instability, there may still be salvage value there. The problem, as I see it, is that it has become impossible to link from there to here.


228

Posted by Notus Wind on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 22:23 | #

Matt Parrott,

The way I see it this thread is about airing out the truth.  I asked the question that I asked because I am truly baffled by what has transpired over the past few weeks at OD.

Here is the order of events that I have in my mind right now:

(1) HW’s old forum was hacked many years ago and some people are still upset about it.

[fast forward almost a decade]

(2) The people behind TOQ are unhappy with Greg Johnson and fire him.

(3) HW inherits Greg’s job at TOQ.

(4) There are unresolved issues over money between Greg and TOQ.

(5) There is a falling out between HW and Greg.

(6) OD publishes some dubious material about “kicking intellectshuals in the balls”.  In retrospect, this probably has more to do with the state of HW and Greg’s relationship than anything else.

(7) The falling out between HW and Greg goes public.

[and now for something that the preceding events don’t explain]

(8) OD’s theme changes and it becomes an anti-WN website.

(9) Matt Parrott leaves OD.

(10) Fade to black with HW sipping tropical drinks while enjoying a vacation in the Bahamas on money that was donated to OD at Matt’s behest.

Is this correct?  Can you at least see my confusion about how events (1)-(7) seem almost completely unrelated to (8)-(10)?


229

Posted by Millirone on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 22:43 | #

“I think the contributors at OD have been doing excellent work,” (—Armor)

Same here. Matt, I hope you continue with what you were doing.

I also want to say thank you to MR for leaving this thread up. I was wondering WTH was going on over at OD lately, the place had taken a major turn for the worse….now I know.


230

Posted by Matt Parrott on Thu, 05 Aug 2010 23:47 | #

Wanderer,
You can confirm my identity by contacting me through the contact form at my site. I believe I stabbed him in the front, after quite a bit of anguish, research, and attempting to sort things out on the down low. Had it not been for his persistent refusal to disavow phishing in principle and his abuse of funds, I would have tried to either ride it out or quietly move on. It’s not honorable to keep silent when innocent third parties are at risk of both identity theft and theft theft.

Notus Wind,
Most of the Johnson v. Wallace Affair is indeed drama that doesn’t concern me. What did concern me was Hunter’s willingness to compromise the information of innocent third parties (a recurring theme) to win his pissing match. I also had an opportunity to learn more about the phishing episode, which I had only been vaguely aware of and had dismissed as troll vs. troll forum antics. Not only was the behavior far more egregious than I had presumed, it was behavior that he refuses to renounce to this day.

I had actually resolved to quietly leave several weeks ago for different reasons, but I was persuaded to hang in there and be a team player by a third party I respect.

Hopefully that helps put things in perspective.

Others,
I appreciate all the kind remarks.


231

Posted by Gussie Fink-Nottle on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 00:03 | #

Is this correct?  Can you at least see my confusion about how events (1)-(7) seem almost completely unrelated to (8)-(10)?

(6) seems to me to be the direct antecedent to (8).  HW’s disillusionment with WN intellectuals is a reflection of his disillusionment with WN, or led to that disillusionment.

The rest of this thread was just people with axes to grind taking advantage of someone questioning the direction of Occidental Dissent to air some unrelated or only tangentially related issues with Wallace.


232

Posted by Trainspotter on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 00:53 | #

Matt, you haven’t made an ass out of yourself.  You’ve done excellent work, and you have every reason to be proud of it.  You were one of the main draws at OD. 

Nothing that has happened negates any of that, it’s mostly just School of Hard Knocks type stuff.  We live and learn. 

You are right that it would be immoral to withhold relevant information at this point in the game.  I appreciate your honesty, and it helps bring closure to an unpleasant episode.  The important thing is that the setback in momentum be temporary.  We’re all a bit exhausted and disgusted right now, but that will pass.


233

Posted by Greg Johnson on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 06:44 | #

Notus Wind, you ask what the connection is between the events at TOQ and Hunter’s ideological change of direction. I answered that above, and others who have observed HW’s progressive mental collapse over the last few months have confirmed my hypothesis. HW felt guilty because he betrayed me and also because, as a bribe for his betrayal, he took a stipend away from a highly productive WN scholar who was living on the brink of poverty and who was being partly supported by TOQ so his voice would not be silenced by grinding economic necessity. That individual was tossed in the gutter without so much as a word of explanation or apology by the people with whom Hunter chose to ally himself.

But his conscience got the better of him. The way he dealt with the guilt, however, is frankly crazy. (Trust me, people, autism is the least of his problems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder) In order to lessen the cognitive dissonance, he simply changed his whole intellectual outlook so that people who wish to work on the intellectual side of white nationalism are now the problem—not the Jews, not the non-Whites, not the traitorous white elites—but people like me and Michael O’Meara and Francis Parker Yockey. Meanwhile, in Hunter’s increasingly grandiose mania, his road trips, blathering podcasts, and pathetic performance with Jeffrey Imm have been magnified into an exemplary career of “real world” activism.

As far as I know, the reason that the best people at OD are leaving is twofold. First, they were intellectually opposed to Hunter’s anti-intellectual turn, which they saw as disingenuous and destructive to the cause. Second, they became alarmed at increasingly apparent signs that Hunter is mentally ill and that he can go on vindictive ramages when crossed or cornered—rampages in which he tosses aside all considerations of reason and ethics. His whole past history of this came back to haunt him.

What happened between me and HW is not the primary reason that OD is falling apart. But I think that those who know some of the facts about the TOQ situation and thus had a basis to judge the claims Hunter made on here were taken aback not only with his viciousness, but also his dishonesty. What was especially chilling to me were not the big lies that were obviously constructed to defame me and exculpate Hunter. Those I could understand. What really scares me are the little lies that serve no discernible purpose, and the lies he told about other people with no thought as to whether they would vouch for him. That provided a window into sheer madness.

As more people jump ship at OD, HW’s ideology will continue to mutate because they are now bad guys, whom Hunter must reject so he always stays on the side of the angels. The direction is already clear: true White Nationalists are rejecting Hunter, so he is rejecting White Nationalism for “unfashionable” observations” that amount to a rejection of WN for Tea Party populism and implicit whiteness. I am sure he will be a Jew-lover before the month is out, and by the end of the year, he will be sharing his files with the ADL and the SPLC.


234

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 07:46 | #

“true White Nationalists”

Interesting term.

Can anyone of the critics here provide a concrete definition of what a “true White Nationalist” actually is?

What criteria is used to determine who qualifies to be or not to be judged worthy of the title: “true White Nationalist”?

Last but not least, can you provide a few names of those who YOU believe to be a “true White Nationalists”? It would be preferable if YOUR examples are people who currently post comments at OD, or MR.

Anyone?


235

Posted by Sam Davidson on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:08 | #

No one abandons and stabs-in-the-back longtime allies so readily. I believe these to be imposters.

1) I’m not stabbing anyone in the back. “Hunter Wallace” has done good work. He’s simply not capable of holding it together in the long run. That said, I wish him the best of luck.

2) The MajorityRights admins can compare IPs to determine whether or not I’m an imposter.

Can anyone of the critics here provide a concrete definition of what a “true White Nationalist” actually is?

A White Nationalist is one who upholds the 14 Words:
“We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children.”


236

Posted by PF on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:46 | #

Can anyone of the critics here provide a concrete definition of what a “true White Nationalist” actually is?

What criteria is used to determine who qualifies to be or not to be judged worthy of the title: “true White Nationalist”?

True white nationalists uphold the 14 words.

Also, the motivation behind their thinking is to pave the way for a white ethnostate.

It appears less WN because people avoid preaching to the choir and only voice a critique of multiculturalism when its a new idea. its rare to have new ideas about this though.


237

Posted by Armor on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 12:22 | #

Carry on, everyone. (—Fred Scrooby)

That would be too easy. You have written what you have written. We cannot let it go, as if it had never happened.

all I am is a <font color=“maroon”>N</font>ormal <font color=“maroon”>P</font>erfectly <font color=“maroon”>O</font>rdinary <font color=“maroon”>A</font>political <font color=“maroon”>W</font>hite <font color=“maroon”>P</font>erson, so why can’t I just go on calling myself that, no special name?

If no one chooses a name, political action becomes more difficult. Instead of inviting people to a WN political meeting, would you invite them to a <font color=“maroon”>NPOAWP</font> meeting?

Maybe you could call yourself a dissident or a resister? It means that the problem doesn’t come from you: something external is making you resist and behave strangely. It suggests that, if you were brought to a desert island, far away from the external problem, you might revert back to being a normal person.


238

Posted by Wanderer on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 14:00 | #

Hunter’s ideological change of direction

A (pigskin) football-coach has done running plays up the middle (dives) all game long. Then, all of a sudden, he starts calling nothing but sweeps and off-tackle runs. His coaching-staff sees this troubling ‘change of direction’ and is simply outraged! “Coach has abandoned our game-plan! The other team has great DEs and Linebackers! They will clobber us on the outside run!” Several assistant-coaches resign on the spot. They stream up into the bleachers, shouting to the spectators that the coach is “mentally unstable” and “not capable of holding it together”!

(This parable does not mean to say that HW is a leader [coach], which he is not, really. It refers to his “Change”—he apparently has the same goals as ever but a different approach; different “tactics”. It is a process every single one of us goes through over time. Accusing him of being anti-white-racialist is laughable. Part of his apparent “change”, as Notus Wind points out, is clearly a reaction to silly personal disputes, which is sad all the way around. And as much as I like HW, it does reflect badly on him as well.)


239

Posted by Matt Parrott on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 14:22 | #

Wanderer,

Where narcissism, immaturity, and irresponsibility end and mental illness begins is a subjective determination. The assertion of mental instability is founded on far more than this single episdoe. It’s all out in the open for you to draw your own conclusions.

He built up a coalition of dozens of collaborators around a specific mission (hence, mission statement), and then changed that mission unilaterally and without warning. To reference your analogy, this would be more like the coach saying “Screw football, we’re playing badminton, now!”

But as I said, egregious disrespect for others’ private information and abuse of donations are sufficient to make a determination on the advisability of associating with him in any meaningful way.


240

Posted by Wanderer on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 14:22 | #

Matt Parrot:
[HW’s] persistent refusal to disavow phishing in principle and his abuse of funds

A handful of noisy-malcontents with long, bitter-personal-vendettas with HW are the ones raising the “phishing” issue. It is not relevant in any way.

Show us where HW has been in any way involved-in “phishing” as a general thing to do, not in relation to some silly irrelevant personal-vendettas from 5, 10 years ago (the exact details of which are hardly cut-and-dry “HW is a villain”, but are apparently too convoluted for us to understand, not to mention boring). Do these things affect what he has done in the past few years? No. So who cares?

Secondly, show us how HW has been abusing funds. (BTW, I have not followed Occidental-Dissent terribly closely, and so I’m not clear why donations were ever even solicited for a website at all…?)

If you really are severing your relationship with O.D., all parties are the less for it, I think. Your posts were among the best.


241

Posted by Notus Wind on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 15:51 | #

The whole story is finally coming into focus for me.

Sam Davidson: 1) I’m not stabbing anyone in the back. “Hunter Wallace” has done good work. He’s simply not capable of holding it together in the long run. That said, I wish him the best of luck.

Thank you Sam, I am beginning to realize that this is really what the whole story is about.

In his more lucid moments HW can be a very talented writer and thinker but he does have a delicate mental psyche and isn’t capable of shouldering the level of responsibility that he was heaping on himself by radically expanding OD and taking on TOQ.  The rough and tumble of human relations that was sure to follow was just too much; some personality types can lead and bring order out of the messy chaos of human squabbling but not him.  For goodness sake, the man had a mental breakdown just from watching the news that accompanied the recent financial crash, Scrooby and I shared the bizarre experience of watching a talented mind slowly become incomprehensible.

Here’s a lesson that I think we can all takeaway from this: In order to maximize our effectiveness in the outside world we must first know ourselves, not just our talents but also our limits.


242

Posted by Lena on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 16:19 | #

Matt Parrott on his own is far more interesting and vibrant.  He won me over a while ago at OD where he really came into his voice. He is a really good writer and he seems to have a sincere character.  And Greg Johnson’s collaborative effort works because he has a solid world view that his authors share.  I am totally impressed with these new blogs whatever it took to get there.  Matt Parrott really shined at OD, found his voice and really developed as a writer and the proof is his new blog which is absolutely beautiful.  Greg Johnson is much, much better on his own, collaborating with others in his own solid vision.  As Matt got better and better, “Hunter Wallace” I noticed, began to whither.  It was time to break no matter what.  There is a difference between serious and not so serious White advocates here, of professionalism and a total lack of it, of those that know the truth, and those that don‘t care.  But even that is okay if it expands the depth, clarity and vision of those capable of sharing one.  And we can see those who are capable of sharing a personal vision, a world view and the truth about the world and who are not.


243

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 16:47 | #

Can anyone of the critics here provide a concrete definition of what a “true White Nationalist” actually is?

A White Nationalist is one who upholds the 14 Words:
“We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children.”

Thanks for that definition, Sam. That about sums it up.

By using that definition there is little doubt Hunter Wallace is a “true White Nationalist”, no? I really don’t want to jump into the middle of this ‘disagreement’ but I must say: the Stalinista and Leftniki type tactics of accusing someone as being mentally ill doesn’t do “true White Nationalism” any good at all, IMO.

Even if HW runs off the rails from time to time, so what? Hey, nobody’s perfect! I’ve read some of his writings and he comes across as very cogent. As long as he keeps pumping out quality work, we should focus in on that, not amplify his foibles all out of proportion. As long as he’s a proponent of white preservation and an opponent race-replacement I consider him an ally.

BTW, with regard to the term “White Nationalist”, I agree with Fred Scrooby. I prefer to use the terms: white-preservationist and race-realist.

Cheers


244

Posted by Greg Johnson on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 19:28 | #

Thorn, a “true White Nationalist” is a person who is sincere about his beliefs. His beliefs are grounded in reality and in a stable character that is concerned about the truth. Hunter Wallace is a kook whose beliefs are pinned to his unstable emotions, and who will do ideological 180s based on purely subjective and personal likes and dislikes.


245

Posted by Søren Renner on Fri, 06 Aug 2010 19:52 | #

And as much as I like HW, it does reflect badly on him as well.

If you like HW, that fact reflects badly on you, as Matt Parrott has (to his great credit) finally realized.


246

Posted by Captainchaos on Sat, 07 Aug 2010 05:02 | #

GW,

Why don’t you invite Parrot to come blog at MR.  If you were not willing to consolidate your gains out of your competition’s losses then you wouldn’t be English; and you are English, aren’t you?


247

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 07 Aug 2010 06:51 | #

CC,

We are an open house, and we are intellectually eclectic.  Everyone who visits us should be aware of that.  Any of the more thoughtful OD writers (and commenters) who desire a platform and who do not wish to run the risk of obscurity by starting their own site are welcome to get in touch.  Sam Davidson might like to think about that, for example.  But I wouldn’t want to do too much to profit from OD’s difficulties - some discontented soul on this thread has already alluded to my supposed rapacity in this respect.

As for Hunter himself, well yes, after Odessa I offered to publish his further output here.  At the time, wise heads who understood him better than I did cautioned me against any involvement with him at all.  But, having made the offer, I would have been bound to go through with it, of course.  Then OD was resuscitated as a group blog and really took off.  Whatever happens now to Hunter - and it ought to (but won’t) be retirement into pure writing - he has succeeded in creating something that, for a time, illuminated the skies.  That is more than most of us have achieved in this life.


248

Posted by Trainspotter on Sat, 07 Aug 2010 08:09 | #

“Whatever happens now to Hunter - and it ought to (but won’t) be retirement into pure writing - he has succeeded in creating something that, for a time, illuminated the skies.  That is more than most of us have achieved in this life.”

Well said.


249

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Sat, 07 Aug 2010 13:05 | #

With his “unfashionable observations”, “Wallace” is now attracting top quality commentators like “Discard”, who wants to enslave every white person who supports affirmative action and kill 100 million whites by putting them into “tree chippers”.  “Discard” would “give up sex for life” to work as a maintenance man at a concentration camp torturing and electrocuting millions of whites.  “Discard” has previously said he wants 16-year-old white girls to be raped.


250

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 07 Aug 2010 14:49 | #

I tried just now to post something over at AlternativeRight.com but couldn’t (the comment I was “replying to” may have gotten zapped while I was typing out my reply, making my reply technically “unpostable” for their software when I hit the “post” button) so I’ll add it to the mix here since it’s relevant to my exchange with Armor above, regarding what name our side should have:
_________________________
  .

“I will not let the far-right be hijacked

I’ll just throw in that what most commenters here at AltRight.com refer to as “the far right” is the politico-cultural center, the middle of the road, in fact slightly to the left of center.  I for one am an ordinary apolitical middle-of-the-road guy, slightly left of center.  As such, I oppose government-enforced race-replacement of white people, a middle-of-the-road position and essentially the only reason I’m here.  My stand in this regard is not “far right,” not “far” anything; it’s centrist and apolitical.  When someone is genociding your race you don’t have to be political to oppose it.  When the Armenians were being genocided by the Turks in 1915, did only “far right” Armenians oppose it?  When the North American Red Man was being genocided by the whites, was it only the Red Indians who were on the “far right” who opposed it?  No, all ordinary, apolitical Armenians and all ordinary, apolitical North American Red Men opposed it.  It’s normal to oppose that, abnormal not to.  We’re centrists and slightly left-of-centrists.  The other side has labeled us “the far right” because they’re so far gone in blind, deaf, dumb degenerateness that it’s barely believable anyone could be that far gone.  There is no reason whatever for us to adopt their as-seen-from-the-depths-of-the-sewer terminology.

We’re centrists.  Not far-right.  Not far-anything.  Middle-of-the-road.  They, the other side, are far God-only-knows-what.  I am a centrist.  Always was, am now, always will be as long as I live.  Why?  Because I’m normal and ordinary, and normal, ordinary people are centrists, nothing special, no special name.  Centrists.


251

Posted by Obsidian on Sat, 07 Aug 2010 20:26 | #

Wanderer:
Show us where HW has been in any way involved-in “phishing” as a general thing to do, not in relation to some silly irrelevant personal-vendettas from 5, 10 years ago (the exact details of which are hardly cut-and-dry “HW is a villain”, but are apparently too convoluted for us to understand, not to mention boring). Do these things affect what he has done in the past few years? No. So who cares?

The point isn’t to show that Hunter Wallace is engaged in phishing and hacking as “a general thing to do,” ya blockhead!  The fact that he was engaged in it at all should alert anyone that he’s a monumentally untrustworthy, fucked-up individual.  It is the earliest manifestation of Hunter Wallace’s deluded and treacherous behavior.  It is salient to understand the mentality of this person that apparently a few people still put some faith in. 

“5, 10 years ago”?  Yeah, it shows just how long the timeline is for this behavior!  People need to be able to connect the dots from that early event to the most recent events between Wallace and Johnson to see just what a nutcase the guy is.

Again, a screenshot showing Hunter Wallace balls-deep in the hacking and scamming of people at the Phora is right here.  Read it.  That’s all the information you need to demonstrate the treacherous low to which this guy will stoop, and do so very, very consciously!  If you want to see plenty more such screenshots with TONS more damning evidence against him, then look here.  Man, if you don’t get it after that, you don’t WANT to get it!


252

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 07 Aug 2010 21:15 | #

The fact that he was engaged in it at all should alert anyone that he’s a monumentally untrustworthy, fucked-up individual.

Tsk Tsk….............. this Hunter Wallace must be a baaaaaaaaaad character! That said, who here is totally trustworthy? Even “monumentally” so? grin


253

Posted by Obsidian on Sat, 07 Aug 2010 22:03 | #

I’m not using Hunter Wallace’s disgusting treachery to insinuate that the rest of the world (or simply everyone else posting in this comment thread) is populated by perfect angels, you dumbass.  I’m pointing out the level to which that maniac has gone to sow discord.  That’s what separates him from the rest of the pack, and anyone with any sense (meaning you have none) who is aware of his behavior should treat him accordingly.

Yes, his “baaaaaaaaad character” tarnishes whatever he says about others.  Character is veryimportant when evaluating the worthiness of someone like Hunter Wallace who is a public commentator on social and political issues.


254

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 07 Aug 2010 22:41 | #

Hey Obsidian, if you don’t like HW, why don’t you just steer clear of his website?

Only a “dumb ass” would obsess on someone he wrongly thinks is his enemy.

By your own words you indict yourself as an obsessive nutcase.


255

Posted by Obsidian on Sat, 07 Aug 2010 23:50 | #

Hey Thorn, I do not read OD.  I’ve seen it a few times in the past & even agreed with Wallace on many things, but yeah, I steer clear of it now that I know what kind of person he is.  So given that I share many of the same opinions as he does and that I was not among the people at the Phora who were targeted in his insidious campain of petty revenge (I joined phora after all that stuff went down) shows that I don’t think of him as my personal enemy, as you state.

I’ve only made 5 posts in this thread up to this point, which is far fewer than many others in this thread on either side of the HW issue, and it’s more than I’ve ever even thought to say about the man up to now.  So only a complete dumbass would consider my rather limited commentary a form of obsession.  My stance regerding HW has nothing to do with his beliefs, whatever they are this week or next, but with his long-standing pattern of getting into shitfights with colleages, engaging in skullduggery in retaliation, then lying about it to gain sympathy from fucktards like you. 

After having heard about his bullshit in the past and overlooking it, I’ve finally gone so far as to look into the matter to see if he really has done what he’s accused of and found that indeed he has.  So I’m just here to point out that those who have been his detractors in the past have a damn good point about his record of behavior, not to simply trash someone who I believe is an “enemy” of mine as you seem to believe.  There are many other intelligent nationalist writers out there who have not engaged in all that garbage (made public for good reason) and are more deserving of people’s attention.


256

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 08 Aug 2010 09:59 | #

“There are many other intelligent nationalist writers out there who have not engaged in all that garbage (made public for good reason) and are more deserving of people’s attention.”

Exactly. That’s why it’s so idiotic of you to keep bringing up what HW has done in the past. A more mature person (which you are not) would not pile on someone who has done him no direct harm. On the other hand, those of whom HW HAS done harm to is another story. They have a legitimate grievance. They have a right to publicly criticize him. But for someone like you to come out from left-field and sucker punch him showcases YOUR deeply flawed character. You see, in YOUR case, it isn’t really about what HW did or didn’t do, it’s about how you felt compelled to run up and kick a man when others—rightfully or wrongfully—had him down on the ground.


257

Posted by Obsidian on Sun, 08 Aug 2010 10:58 | #

Thorn,

Your stupid fucking logic dictates that the only legitimate voice in a situation in which someone or many people were injured comes directly from those injured parties, and anyone who wasn’t a first-hand combatant just needs to shut the fuck up.  Sorry pal, but that isn’t how the world works - never has, never will.

I am someone, among many others, who has not been personally injured by Fade’s ill-conceived, destructive antics, but I am pointing out that those who have been in direct conflict with him and who have informed others about it are not just making a bunch of shit up just to hurt his feelings, as he and his buds claim.  Are all the claims against him totally accurate?  Probably not, given that there’s so much stuff that he’s done that there’s bound to be some false (or at least not-quite-right) info.  Whatever the case, I’ve now seen that the screenshots prove that he was as involved in the Phora hacking/phishing debacle as his accusers, and there’s enough there to make me sick to my stomach.  No one is holding Wallace down.  The only thing that is really holding him down is the evidence against him and his inability to admit to his guilt (in full).  My speaking up about it is not an act of kicking a guy while he’s down, because he’s been fighting and lying about this shit for years, and nothing’s stopped him in the slightest. 

Look, the guy has a blog, has been the owner of at least one rather large discussion forum, he has a podcast radio show, he worked on TOQ with Kevin MacDonald, and his commentary was published there many times.  So if he’s going to put himself in the spotlight like that as a social/political commentator (which involves the criticism of individuals and groups for the things that they do, as a matter of course), then he’s going to inevitably face harsh consequences for having behaved as he has for so long.  If he doesn’t want the criticism or cannot take it, then he should not behave in the manner that he has.  The best thing for him to have done would be to simply fully own up instead of making a ton of excuses and trying to deflect and lie his way out. Actions have consequences, and I face them for any nasty things do, just as you do, he does, and everyone else.  If this were a strictly private affair, then you’d have a point.  But it’s been way public for a long time, and all his antics inevitably become public because he’s something of a public figure.

I really don’t hate the guy, and I have seen that he has intelligent things to say about some matters.  Rather he is someone that I have no respect for now that I’ve seen the evidence against him after he’s lied about it time and again.  I see the pattern in the behavior, and my chiming in and saying, “OK, now that I’ve see the evidence, and here’s a good bit of it, people should definitely consider this guy’s character when evaluating whether he’s worthy of your consideration when he’s using his bullhorn to call others to account.”

So your accusing me of bad character simply because I chimed in on a discussion thread and said, essentially, “Hey, they’re right, this guy really has done a lot of stupid and nasty shit that people ought to take note of before lending him any credibility as a social commentator, and here’s the evidence,” is just total bullshit on your part.


258

Posted by Obsidian on Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:02 | #

*4th sentence, 2nd paragraph “... as his accusers say, ...”


259

Posted by Obsidian on Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:14 | #

I’m still trippin’ on this nozzle saying I have “deeply flawed character” because I’m chiming in on a goddamn discussion thread about something that I wasn’t directly involved in.  I mean, what a crock of shit.  That’s what a comment section is all about!  Voicing your opinion, even if you weren’t personally injured by the party(ies) under discussion.


260

Posted by Sam Davidson on Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:20 | #

Obsidian,

As “Hunter Wallace” already stated, he was the previous owner of The Phora. He created it. It started as a free-speech forum back in ‘01 or ‘02, but by 2006 others took ownership and started banning longtime members, including him. The phishing/hacking stuff was a response to that. It’s all about context.


261

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:21 | #

Obsidian,

I think we can both agree that GW has it just about right when he summed it up this way:

“Whatever happens now to Hunter - and it ought to (but won’t) be retirement into pure writing - he has succeeded in creating something that, for a time, illuminated the skies.  That is more than most of us have achieved in this life.”

Case closed.


262

Posted by Obsidian on Sun, 08 Aug 2010 15:41 | #

Thorn,

I can agree that Wallace has done some good stuff which has been undermined by his own roguery.  What HW has done is involve himself in one shitstorm after another with his tendency to break out into fights with contemporaries, his unpredictable behavior and often contradictory views, and engage in treachery, then he lies through his teeth (which has been proven with screenshots) to gain sympathy.  This latest episode with Greg Johnson demonstrates that there’s inevitably a ruckus when he hangs out for a while, and he has and continues to cloudy the skies and stink up the environment with the incessant dodging and lying.

Case closed.


263

Posted by Notus Wind on Sun, 08 Aug 2010 15:59 | #

Obsidian,

I am sorry but aren’t you Black?  What is your angle in all this?


264

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 08 Aug 2010 17:27 | #

If Obsidian is black, as his handle suggests, then his purpose is to use every opportunity he can to drive wedges within the “WN” movement. This is typical of nigger behavior.  They repeatedly demonstrate they aren’t incapable of building institutions. On the other hand, they consistently prove themselves to be experts at destroying them.


265

Posted by Trainspotter on Sun, 08 Aug 2010 17:55 | #

There is an Obsidian that has posted a lot over at Roissy.  Black guy, pretty smart, has a fairly good grasp of the situation. But ultimately…he’s black, and that certainly influences his approach and agenda.  Not overtly hostile to white nationalism, but not necessarily a friend either.  Whether this is the same guy, I have no idea.


266

Posted by Greg Johnson on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 00:01 | #

Former White Nationalist Hunter Wallace explains what led to his (latest) ideological shift:

Here are the real questions:

1.) Will these people betray you over a small amount of money? Yes.

2.) Will they stab you in the back when they see an opportunity to advance themselves? Yes.

3.) Will these people use you and take advantage of your idealism to promote themselves? Yes.

4.) Will these people forget everything you have done for them? Yes.

5.) Do these people appreciate all the hard work and enormous sacrifices you have made to advance their beliefs? No.

6.) Can such people stare down the federal government and win a concession as big as an ethnostate? No.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2010/08/09/review-the-next-american-civil-war/#comment-72683

This, of course, is more projection, because the questions and the answers apply perfectly to HW himself.

1.) Will Hunter Wallace betray you over a small amount of money? He certainly betrayed me and somebody who was far more valuable to the cause than either of us, somebody who was far more vulnerable financially. Hunter gladly took this man’s stipend as a bribe to stab me in the back.

2.) Will HW stab you in the back to advance himself? Yes, see above.

3.) I assume that #3 is just HW’s twisted version of the fact that I promoted his work to a much wider audience through TOQ Online (this is now “plagiarism” and dereliction of duty).

4.) Will HW forget everything you have done for him? Yes, he certainly did so in my case. I promoted his work, lured him out of his mother’s basement into the real world, introduced him to some of the leading people in the movement—and he forgets all that and stabs me in the back for a stipend of $1000/month to do something he had been doing for free, at the cost of condemning one of our best voices to silence and poverty.

5.) The real question here is: Why won’t my hard work and “enormous sacrifices” [I guess this refers to wetting himself on the Jim Giles show, taking road trips, and snapping pictures with a camera phone] induce people to look beyond my mental illness, immaturity, vindictiveness, and pathological dishonesty? The answer: Because some of us, at least, are not crazy.

6.) Can HW stare down the Feds and win a concession as big as an ethnostate? No. He couldn’t even stare down Jeffrey Imm.


267

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 00:17 | #

He’s typing anti-WN screeds on his anti-WN website, on a tropical island vacation, buying mixed drinks from scantily-clad Black girls, WITH MOVEMENT MONEY and your PayPal donations. Right now.

To quote the inimitable Al Ross: “It’s always a pleasure to vacation in a country run by Niggers.”


268

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 00:21 | #

“Hunter Wallace” revealed one of the reasons for his volte-face: Jeffrey Imm was nice to him and a couple of white nationalists said some mean things about him.

“Wallace” is also friends with the antis at Lady Liberty’s Lamp, a site affiliated with the odious One People’s Project.

As of late, “Hunter” has been praising the “courage” of Jeffrey Imm, illegal alien protesters, the NAACP, and movement conservatives, and he constantly denigrates white nationalists as worthless, pathetic scum.


269

Posted by Greg Johnson on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 00:25 | #

Former White Nationalist Hunter Wallace alludes to what caused him to mutate into a faux-redneck/populist:

Apparently, Trainspotter is unfamiliar with the sequence of events that transpired offline which led to the “senseless, self-indulgent attack” … for example, the libel that was spread around that I work for the SPLC.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2010/08/03/revolt-of-the-country-class-part-2-herding-the-cats/comment-page-1/#comment-71980

Just for the record, I was responsible for spreading that “libel.” What did I do, exactly? Why, I sent around some links to The Odessa Syndicate where Bradley Dean Griffin (now known as Hunter Wallace) talked about working with Morris Dees. He also talks about his insanity

http://web.archive.org/web/20080604125434/blog.odessa-syndicate.com/

Here are a few choice quotes, but you really should read the whole thing.

Diagnosis: Schizophrenia
Jun 3rd, 2008 by Bradley Dean Griffin

I’m nutz. Oh well, I would rather be crazy/intelligent/educated than stupid! Really, I need to get out more. I’ve been too busy working on my own mind.

Note: I notice that John F. Nash won the Nobel Prize in Economics.”


——————-


The eight post down on that archive page is one example of what I’m talking about with regard to the Dees bribe:


University of Maryland
Jun 2nd, 2008 by Bradley Dean Griffin

I’m going to the University of Maryland next year to get my master’s degree in political science. A dream come true! Thanks, Morris.

Note: I already have several theses to write.


—————————————————


Here are some other highlights I noticed upon a cursory glance:


Confession

Jun 1st, 2008 by Bradley Dean Griffin

At the Behavioral Medical Center, I indicated my willingness to join the Lutheran Church, but my fiancée is a Southern Baptist - what to do? If energy is life, we can have a united Protestant Church, a united Christianity, can’t we?

Note: I’m watching Luther the movie again.


—————————————


Struggling for My Mind
Jun 1st, 2008 by Bradley Dean Griffin

The one possession I have. Taken away. I can reason slowly. This diagnosis of Prozium impairs my motor skills.

1.) Abilify. I’m not “bipolar.” I just love to write. I’m happy that people care and listen.

2.) Invega. I’m not a “schizo.” Everyone is a bad ass on the internet.

3.) Desyrel. I’m not in the least suicidal.

4.) Lorazapen. I’m not going to panic, although I am anxious to find out what is going on.

Fido, the movie about the consumer zombie!

Of course, I did not believe that he was working with the SPLC. I accepted his alibi, namely, that he was having a pyschotic episode, and I also forwarded a link to the Marjority Rights thread where he talks about his psychotic episode:

http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/its_politics_and_its_kmd/

I don’t think that anyone believes that HW has gone to the SPLC (yet). I think that we all accept that he was crazy when he wrote that.

The reason I thought people should know is that HW had been given access to personal information about TOQ supporters and subscribers, the very sort of information he has abused in the past.


270

Posted by Wanderer on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:15 | #

Obsidian:
Hunter Wallace ... scamming of people at the Phora

Who cares? Is this the best the Wallace-haters can do? A silly internecine feud from years ago (See here) that is obviously not relevant to anything going on today?

Where has HW actively worked against or to subvert racialism in the USA? Where he has “phished” information from racialists and passed it on to the SPLC? No, the only thing you have is some stupid squabble over some website from years and years ago, and lots and lots of slander and largely-baseless character-assassination. Put up or shut up.


271

Posted by Wanderer on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:20 | #

Matt Parrot:
To reference your analogy, this would be more like the coach saying “Screw football, we’re playing badminton, now!”

It seems to me that H.W. is still pursuing the same goal, just with slightly different tactics. We all shift a little bit over time like this. Maybe he does it more (actually drop that ‘maybe’). But I think it’s not as extreme as you have insinuated.

I mean, if Occidental-Dissent had morphed into a movie-review website that gave terrible reviews to all movies Greg Johnson has stated he enjoys, then maybe the analogy would be suited to a football-coach ordering his team to play badminton in the second-half. The coach still does want to win at football, he’s just taking a different approach to get there. That’s my take on it, anyway.

Thorn:
As long as he keeps pumping out quality work, we should focus in on that, not amplify his foibles all out of proportion.

Finally a voice of sanity.

Why do I get the feeling that a lot of the people in this thread would rather engage in the silliest forms of bickering and in dramatics like mud-slinging, than advance racialist politics? To the extent that HW was engaged in such too, shame on him. But I think he’s gotten an undeserved bad rap.

Badmouthing HW has become a “meme” here, thanks to the incessant, unrestrained verbal-diarrhea from a handful of malcontents. Which is a shame.


272

Posted by Wanderer on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:23 | #

Greg Johnson:
[H.W.] will do ideological 180s based on purely subjective and personal likes and dislikes.

Just as there are many paths to God, there are many paths to “white-racialist revival” (or whatever one wants to call it). He has tried various paths towards the same goal, maybe moreso than the rest of us. But I don’t think he has ever strayed from racialism as the animating spirit of his outlook, whatever window-dressing there may be. Matt Parrot wrote that O.D. was now “Anti-WN”, which if one interprets to mean “anti-white” is laughable.

HW has been playing-up what Sam Francis called the ‘Middle-American Radicals’ lately. Do you also reckon Dr.Francis to have been “anti-white”?


273

Posted by Wanderer on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:26 | #

Soren Renner:
If you like HW, that fact reflects badly on you

Anyone who writes with Hunter Wallace’s incisiveness and clarity-of-thought, and anyone with his dedication, deserves respect and admiration on some level, despite any minor personal flaws.

For the same reason I admire Matt Parrot and for that matter also you Renner (your quirky intellect is usually above me but I still appreciate it). I admire Dr. Greg Johnson, as he has penned some excellent articles that I have read, from which I have learned and for which I appreciate his efforts. I just wish everyone could get along. To paraphrase a black crack-addict ca. 1992.


274

Posted by Kevin Riley O'Keeffe on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:44 | #

I’ve made a complete ass of myself, and I apologize both to the several people who warned me and to the several people who I encouraged to get caught up in this circus.

In my experience, all who allow their affairs to become entwined with the person who calls himself “Hunter Wallace,” eventually get burned.  His many, many mercurial ideological changes, his reading of Private Messages at The Phora when he was chief Admin there (via a hack he installed to v-Bulletin), and his password phishing site which he disguised as a genuine v-Bulletin discussion board (“The Lyceum”), were not commonly known to the broader WNist and ideologically related online community (they were acts of perfidy which were primarily known to old Phora hands, such as yours truly).  Hence you did not make an ass out of yourself, as you did not have adequate warning.  The only asses will be those who now have adequate warning, yet refrain from disentangling themselves from the corrupt festival of back-stabbing and arbitrarily massive & frequent ideological shifts that are the sum total of the online activity of “Hunter Wallace.”

I try to be a good Christian and rise above personal hatred (despite the many, many horrible lies “Hunter Wallace” has spread about not just myself, but also my wife, with whom he had no acquaintance what-so-ever, other than having viewed her MySpace page), so I like to think I am not simply wishing him ill fortune when I say that it is my fervent hope that common sense will soon come to reign over at the Occidental Quarterly, and thus they will cease having any formal connection what-so-ever with that person (who is almost certainly suffering from a mental illness).


275

Posted by Jimmy Marr on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 20:15 | #

I’m not too keen on Hunter Wallace’s behavior, but without his help, and that of Greg Johnson, I never would have realized the extent to which I am associating with people online who may be afraid of having their identities revealed to organizations like the SPLC. This is like a joke to me. I just assumed that all of us knew we were on file there, and at the ADL.

I’ve become so accustomed to being spied on by these and other agencies that I actually feel slighted when they don’t film my public appearances.

It’s good for me to understand that not everyone online is open about these matters. In some ways, it makes it easier for me to understand Mr. Wallace’s complaints about high-minded WNs, who don’t walk their talk.

I realize that it takes all kinds of people to make the movement work, and I’m not trying to shame anyone. I just didn’t know there was as much behind-the-scenes participation, as I’m now beginning to suspect.


276

Posted by Trainspotter on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 21:29 | #

“It’s good for me to understand that not everyone online is open about these matters. In some ways, it makes it easier for me to understand Mr. Wallace’s complaints about high-minded WNs, who don’t walk their talk.”

Keep in mind that “Hunter Wallace” is itself a pen name. 

As to the issue of “walk their talk,” I’m not aware of anyone encouraging others to go public while not doing so himself - with one exception.  Hunter is the one using a pen name, while denigrating those who don’t go public.  He is the only person I can recall ever having done that.  I’ll give him a bit of a pass because he has been involved enough for his real identity to become somewhat known, and he should get credit for this.  Still, he’s hardly public in the conventional sense.  In my opinion, he should keep it that way. 

Most WN are not going public until there is a real payoff in doing so.  Unless someone is actually benefiting white nationalism in the process, it makes no sense to provide dandy targets for the System.  Just my opinion, but yes, it is a strongly held opinion.  I’m tired of seeing people left twisting in the wind, while accomplishing absolutely nothing for the cause. I’ve seen, up close and personal, this happen to somebody.  It ain’t a pretty sight Unless the person in question is quite talented and able to draw meaningful support from the white nationalist community, nothing good is going to come of it.  Then again, nothing bad may come of it either, but it becomes a pointless risk.  Not to mention the fact that there are many white nationalists for whom it is not merely a risk - they WILL lose their jobs if they go public.  Not maybe - will.  If there was a real payoff for the cause, losing one’s career might be worth it.  But if not, it’s just pure lunacy.

I hope MORE white nationalists stay well under the radar, gaining government or corporate positions, becoming experienced lawyers, slipping into media positions or academia, becoming Navy Seals and military officers.  History moves on, and the day may come when we need those skills.  But, at this particular point in time, if those people were to go public, white nationalism would have precious few people above the level of ditch digger.  Bottom line is that, for now, we are a de facto underground movement, and we had better learn to operate that way.  You go public if and only if it will benefit the cause.  There is plenty one can do for white nationalism without going public.  Do those things instead.     

In any event, no matter where one comes down on this particular question, it was not necessary to institute a circular firing squad in order to resolve it.  A website that was going swimmingly just a few weeks ago has now become a mere shell of its former self.  It’s descent has been remarkable.

The acrimony and bad blood that has been created were completely unnecessary.  I’d say that sort of behavior is far more harmful to white nationalism than the reasonable refusal of people to make themselves dandy targets with no payoff whatsoever for the cause.


277

Posted by Søren Renner on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 21:47 | #

Hence you did not make an ass out of yourself, as you did not have adequate warning.

No. He was warned about Hunter. I warned him.


278

Posted by Notus Wind on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 22:10 | #

Trainspotter,

The debate that you’ve been having with HW is one of the more surreal things that I’ve read in quite some time.  He kept saying something to the effect that “nationalists don’t act because they lack character” and when you rightly pressed him on the kind of political action that he had in mind he just kept repeating himself as if he was reciting a medieval incantation.

Hunter is the one using a pen name, while denigrating those who don’t go public.  He is the only person I can recall ever having done that.

Talk about otherworldly.

What heightens the bizarreness of it all is that he’s still doing some good work over at OD.  I’ll probably continue to visit his website just to see what he’s writing about.  The man continues to ooze talent even as he straddles the fence between the real world and his own.


279

Posted by Jimmy Marr on Mon, 09 Aug 2010 23:35 | #

Trainspotter,

I appreciate your response. I’m not advocating for anyone to go public unless it suits his needs. It so happened that I took a public stance on the Jewish question before I even knew about the online WN community. That was just my personal circumstance. It started with Israel, which brought the automatic accusations of anti-Semitism, and before I knew it I was being accused of everything under the sun, (i.e. swastika), so I just decided to give the Devil his due. Fortunately, I was 50 years old by then, and more or less financially secure. My kids were grown and had established themselves other states.

I’m totally happy to have such a great source of material online. I couldn’t do my job without it. Every week I’m expected to go public with some politically incorrect perspective. It was easy at first, because it seemed like I was on the verge of being banned from the university campus where I speak, but as time passes, the administration seems to be waiting for me to exhaust my repertoire.

Meanwhile, thanks for all the good, new ideas I’m exposed to here, I can continue. I don’t really care if others here are hitting the pavement, or not. I think it makes good sense to stay in reserve.

I do, however, remember being inspired to go public by Soren’s Discourse is Warspeech at European New Right. But that’s not for everybody.

As far as whether, or not, making a public nuisance of myself provides any benefit to the movement: I can’t tell. I often have very serious doubts. But, in my case, I doubt that shutting up will do any better.


280

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:25 | #

“Hunter Wallace” says he has “never seen a bigger slap across the face of White America” than the Ground Zero mosque. Really?! The mosque is the most outrageous thing “Hunter” has ever seen?!


281

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:38 | #

ATBOTL is trying to pound sense through “Hunter”‘s skull.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2010/08/05/missouri-the-nullification-crisis-of-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-71728

ATBOTL says:
August 5, 2010 at 4:32 am

What kind of “revolution” is this? All this sort of crap has happened in America many times since the 60?s and it never lead to anything good for whites. Are you seriously trying to suggest that MO rejecting Obamacare is some kind of momentous event in the formation of a Jew-free white ethno-state?

If your logic is correct and people objecting to overreaching by the federal government and liberal social engineering schemes were the first step on the road to racial awareness, we should be living in an Aryan paradise by now.

Please do some research on American politics from 1964 to 2000. It’s more directly relevant to what is happening now than what happened in the 1830?s. These occasional right-wing populist tantrums are easily out maneuvered by the establishment.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2010/08/09/review-the-next-american-civil-war/comment-page-1/#comment-72775

ATBOTL says:
August 9, 2010 at 7:33 am

My view is that any kind of populist backlash against the elites that is not explicitly racialist will be co-opted by the Rush Limbaugh/Newt Gingrich types and will end with someone like Bush in charge.

I base this belief on the fact that that is what has happened in the recent past every time populist anger builds. It happened in the late 60?s/early 70?s with the “white backlash,” which elected Richard Nixon, who instituted affirmative action. It happened with the “Reagan Revolution” that resulted in amnesty for illegal aliens, Martin Luther King Day as a federal holiday and the neocon’s take over of the conservative movement. Then we had the “Republican Revolution” of 1994, which swept the GOP to power in Congress where they spent the next 12 years ignoring rapidly increasing rates of legal and illegal immigration, affirmative action and outsourcing.

The same types of people who are behind the Tea Party then elected Bush twice. Bush, if you don’t remember, played up a folksy, populist, “red state,” image, complete with fake Southern accent and brush clearin’ down on the ranch while pushing hard for another amnesty for illegal aliens, creating a massive new prescription drug entitlement and a massive new federal education bureaucracy devoted largely to racially equalizing student achievement, running up record budget deficits and starting a disastrous war in Iraq at the behest of the neocons. I’m not about to put my faith in the people who voted for that just 6 years ago.

What I think is likely to happen is that this cycle — conservative populist white backlash followed by co-option, sell out and liberal resurgence — will repeat for the foreseeable future. The cycle will be broken when conservative whites are no longer enough of the voting public to elect a president and Congress they find acceptable, even during good years. By this time, you’re likely to see the GOP far to the left of what it is now. Most of the Baby Boomers will be dead at this point and the Gen Xers will be starting to die out too, so there won’t be any Tea Party to speak of. Hopefully at this point, the remaining whites will become more open to some form of white nationalism on a large scale.

The alternate scenario that I think is somewhat plausible is that as these conservative populist movements come and go, they become more explicitly racial. At some point they would have to move beyond racially coded rhetoric and start advocating actual pro-white policies, like restricting legal non-white immigration and addressing Jewish influence. This could lead to a mass white nationalist movement by a gradual shift from current colorblind conservatism. I don’t think we are moving that direction now although I understand why some think we are. A racially charged political atmosphere similar to what we have today has existed at various times over the last 50 years, and it always fizzled out while the overall state of America continued to get worse.


282

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:42 | #

Nobody except “Hunter” has posted on OD in the last week.  Did “Hunter” decide to kick everyone else out?


283

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 03:42 | #

“There is an Obsidian that has posted a lot over at Roissy.  Black guy, pretty smart, has a fairly good grasp of the situation. But ultimately…he’s black, and that certainly influences his approach and agenda.”

HAH! If true, I surmise the foul-mouthed articulate nigger that calls itself Obsidian is probably in the employment of the government or some other anti-white organization such as the SPLC.


284

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 09:00 | #

Those are quite good analyses by ATBOTL posted above by “Unfashionable Observations.”  ATBOTL’s a smart guy who’s got his head screwed on frontwards.

Thorn, bear in mind the possibility that “Obsidian” may be “black” the way “Freya” who comments over at AltRight is “female.”


285

Posted by Trainspotter on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 09:06 | #

Notus Wind, you’re absolutely right.  It certainly has been otherworldly.  Still, it’s a worthwhile issue, and in my opinion worth some time.  I don’t expect to convince Hunter, but you never know who might be reading. 

Jimmy Marr, I think that’s great.  It may well be that you are getting a payoff commensurate with potential penalties.  You’re a smart guy, so I’m sure that the commentary that you offer is good stuff. 

Being financially secure is a huge plus, as it gives a level of freedom that most people don’t have.  For example, if I were more financially secure, I’d love to do a radio show.  I might be able to get away with doing it anonymously - provided it remained obscure and didn’t build much of an audience.  But then, what would be the point?  Plenty of that sort available already.  In order to really build a show up and reach a substantial audience, I would have to go public, which is something that I can’t do right now. And I’d have to solicit funds, which is something I also don’t want to do (unless I was growing the movement and therefore growing the pie, not just competing for scarce WN dollars in a zero sum game).  My responsibilties are what they are, and they aren’t going to magically disappear.  The funds to meet them have to come from somewhere. I’m more comfortable with them coming from my own work. 

A WN I know would make a fanstastic co-host, and has indicated interest in doing such a show, but would be even more insane to go public right now.  It would be extremely, extremely foolish - and ultimately unsustainable.  I don’t see how someone remains a good activist without being able to meet their personal responsibilities.  That’s just the reality of white nationalism circa 2010.  I wish that weren’t the case, but it is.

Again, as you suggest, it all comes down to personal circumstances.  Some people are more vulnerable, some are less.  I just say weigh the issue carefully, as we don’t need more burnouts left twisting in the wind.  It ain’t right, and just as importantly, it ain’t effective.  I’d far rather have a “keyboard commando” who spreads our ideas online and occasionally kicks in a contribution to a worthy cause, than a guy who gets burned, hung out to dry, and disillusioned.  Putting people into unsustainable situations is a terrible idea, and terrible for the movement. 

Unfashionable Observations: “ATBOTL is trying to pound sense through “Hunter“‘s skull.”

Good luck to him.  I’ve been hammering away on very similar themes for weeks now, to no avail.  Then again, I’m not really trying convince Hunter.  One never knows who is reading.


286

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 09:46 | #

“I’d love to do a radio show.  I might be able to get away with doing it anonymously”  (—Trainspotter)

Perfect.  Contact Soren about doing one for MajorityRights Radio. You always do good work in comments threads no matter where you post.  I’ve no doubt you’d be as good a radio host.


287

Posted by Sam Davidson on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:54 | #

I’d far rather have a “keyboard commando” who spreads our ideas online and occasionally kicks in a contribution to a worthy cause, than a guy who gets burned, hung out to dry, and disillusioned.

You’re right.

The best way to avoid burn-out is to not be everyone’s hero. The masses don’t worship heroes until they’re already a part of the establishment. About 90% of any population will be absolute followers. The only thing they understand is power. They respect it. The only morality they have is herd-morality. If you try to play ‘Che Guevara’ they’ll ignore you. The establishment will call you a crazy loner and the masses will repeat it. The masses will only switch sides when you ride into town on a tank while the previous El Presidente is fleeing the country.

Many activists in the far-left have the mistaken idea that their job is to lead the way and magically all these lemmings will rally to their cause. When it doesn’t happen they become disillusioned. I’ve seen it. The smart ones are building selective organizations dedicated to gathering the useful 10% who think independently. They’re building up a core, a nucleus, for a future mass movement. I know this because I’ve bothered to attend public meetings with Marxists.

The National Alliance was working towards this exact same goal before it imploded. If the rest of us were smart we’d continue this goal and keep spreading the word and gathering the faithful. If we could get 10% of Whites on our side, in any country, we’d have a solid base from which to act. Right now it makes no sense to have 5-man rallies or idiotic confrontations with people like Jeffrey Imm. Intelligent people don’t like making fools of themselves in public.

That said, when we can successfully put several thousand people into the streets I won’t put up with any excuses from keyboard commandos who refuse to show up.


288

Posted by PF on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:40 | #

Trainspotter,

Over the past three weeks I’ve watched you author - in the form of scattered comments here and on OccidentalDissent - some of the most brilliant comments on memetic dispersion/evolution and our overall strategy, that I’ve ever had the pleasure to read.

It would be useful for us to have these in one place. Could I ask you to consider putting your thoughts into a piece and sending it to GW? Or else, can I collect up these comments and publish them as a blog entry on MR?


289

Posted by Trainspotter on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:19 | #

Sam, I agree.  There is preparatory work to be done, but yes, there will come a time to move on to the next stage.  I don’t think that time is all that far off, and I suspect that most of us reading this will be around for the next stage. 

Fred, thanks for the compliment, but don’t forget the sentences that followed.  To take a radio program where it needs to go, I’d need to be public, and that’s just not viable for now.  To create another obscure, anonymous show is probably not worth it.  We already have quite a bit of that now. 

My goal in the short term is to develop the whole vision thing as best I can.  To be honest, I had hoped to have something put together by this summer, but that hasn’t happened.  It’s a lot to wrap one’s mind around and, as they say, time flies.  I’m amazed that so much of 2010 is already gone.  January seems like just last week. 

I’m beginning to think that the best approach might be in the form of baby steps, and treat it as a collaborative effort. By approaching it in serial form, it might become more digestible.

In other words, let’s consciously say “We’re creating our vision.  Whatever we come up with, we’re going to run with it.  Here is the first post in a dedicated, specific series of weekly posts.  Each post will ask a question or put forth a proposition.  Let the carnivores have at it, but we resolve it one way or another.  Then we move on to the next question or proposition, starting with the most basic and building out from there.”

In the broad scheme of it all, these sorts of things shouldn’t be rushed.  But…we’re going to have to rush it.  We’re running out of time.  I say, to be entirely arbitrary about it, let’s give it a year from the first post in the series.  One post a week, for 50 weeks.  I could be persuaded to double that time, and move it to 100 posts over two years.  But let’s assume 50 for now. 

The real challenge will be to ask the right 50 questions, or put forth the right 50 propositions - each one building on the last.  The goal is to flesh out our vision, a winning vision, which today remains inchoate. 

I realize that this sounds somewhat like a color by numbers scheme, but we’ve got to impose some sort of a time limit on ourselves, as well as a structure.  The structure is one post a week for fifty weeks, which thereby gives us the time limit.  What we come up with is what we come up with, and we proceed as such.  I told guessedworker some time ago that I intended to publish whatever I came up with here on majorityrights.  This is the perfect place to do it. 

We say we’re about idea creation.  Well, let’s actually do it.

So, I would ask anybody interested to start working on the “list” of either 50 questions or propositions. If there is support for this approach, there should be a thread dedicated to the “50.”  I will work on synthesizing them, though of course anybody else can as well.  Point is, we create the rough outline of what we are going to cover. 

We certainly should be able to accomplish the initial task within a few months, at which point the countdown begins.  Then we spend a year doing just that.  Then we do whatever we can to spread this vision, far and wide, and take it from there.

I’ll also say, by way of explanation, that I don’t think one can come up with a vision by committee.  That’s not what I’m talking about.  Whoever actually hosts the series, whether it is me or someone else, will need to stick to his guns. In a sense, what results will be “his” vision, though in a broader sense it will be “ours” as well.  In fact, several people may want to do this, each with his own “50.” A little competition wouldn’t hurt.   

If there is any interest in this particular approach, feedback would be appreciated.  The sooner we get started, the better.  On the other hand, if there is no interest, it’d be nice to know that too.  I’ll do it alone, when push comes to shove, but I think that a collaborative effort could work better.  For the most part, we don’t have the smoke filled coffee shops and salons of old, with revolution in the air and ideas hotly contested.  For most of us, we do it here or not at all. I say let’s do it.


290

Posted by PF on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:34 | #

Trainspotter wrote:

In the broad scheme of it all, these sorts of things shouldn’t be rushed.  But…we’re going to have to rush it.  We’re running out of time.  I say, to be entirely arbitrary about it, let’s give it a year from the first post in the series.  One post a week, for 50 weeks.  I could be persuaded to double that time, and move it to 100 posts over two years.  But let’s assume 50 for now.

This is an awesome idea!

So, I would ask anybody interested to start working on the “list” of either 50 questions or propositions. If there is support for this approach, there should be a thread dedicated to the “50.” I will work on synthesizing them, though of course anybody else can as well.  Point is, we create the rough outline of what we are going to cover.

I will start on my 50 tonight.

Are these 50 theses meant to encompass everything - strategy, historical interpretation, hard science, ontology?

I fucking love this idea.


291

Posted by Matt Parrott on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:51 | #

Trainspotter,

I’m skeptical about the utility of arriving at a roadmap through distilling the movement’s groupthink. There’s something critically wrong with the groupthink or it wouldn’t be a stuckment to begin with. We at Hoosier Nation have a growing collection of dedicated activists doing both anonymous and public advocacy work. We host monthly meetings with dozens of supporters (and a 50/50 gender ratio!), regularly stage protest events that pull in dozens of supporters and attract non-humiliating mainstream media coverage. Our message remains true to the core principles while being relatively palatable to apolitical and working class folks.

We aren’t another cargo cult with a PO Box. We keep our overhead as lean as possible. Our efforts integrate the latest constituent relationship management techniques and advocacy strategies plucked from throughout the political spectrum. We attend town hall meetings, maintaining productive dialogues with local politicians and community leaders. We pass out petitions then hold the appropriate politicians accountable to them.

I would be interested in learning what your thoughts are on both our vision and our application. We’re always looking for volunteers and we’re always looking for better ideas.

Perhaps you would volunteer to host our radio show? smile


292

Posted by Trainspotter on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:52 | #

PF, I really appreciate that. 

You have my permission to use them as you see fit.  I’ve read your posts for quite some time, value them, and trust your judgment. My only restriction (and I know that you wouldn’t do this, but there are those that might), would be against someone taking them out of context in such a way that suggests advocacy of illegal activity, as opposed to the perfectly legal discussion of activities and hypotheticals.  Obviously, discussing revolution (peaceful or non) is a tricky subject, and sometimes the boundaries get a little blurred. I would want anyone to be careful with that, whether with my writing or their own.  What we write is pretty much etched out in digital land forever, freely accessible to those who mean us harm, and thus appropriate care should be taken.  Again, PF, I realize that this wouldn’t apply to you, just putting it out there as general policy.   

I’ve pretty much put myself on the hook here to produce something of value, so I may do a summary when the time is right. I definitely think it needs to be addressed as part of the “50” that I mentioned above.  We’re going to have to address strategy and tactics at some point. 

As for the comments themselves, unfortunately I didn’t edit most of them.  Just typing away and hitting send… therefore there are a lot of typos, and some embarrassing errors in sentence structure. Not to mention my habit of utilizing fragments (as in this post) and beginning many a sentence or even paragraph with “but” or “and.”  However, I don’t plan on altering that. Conjunctions fucking rock.

Also, there is an awful lot of repetition (yes, I am wont to hammer away at a point; I do this for a reason).  Maybe a “best of,” cleaned up, would have some value. 

Anyway, a summary will most likely appear here on majorityrights in due time, assuming that there is some interest in the project I mentioned above.


293

Posted by Trainspotter on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:54 | #

PF “Are these 50 theses meant to encompass everything - strategy, historical interpretation, hard science, ontology?”

You read my mind.  Yes, absolutely.


294

Posted by Trainspotter on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:55 | #

Matt Parrott: “I’m skeptical about the utility of arriving at a roadmap through distilling the movement’s groupthink.”

I hear you, and I don’t mean it that way.  Ultimately, at a certain level at least, it’s going to be one man’s vision, in that the one guy is going to have to stick to his guns.  I’m not talking about philosophy by committee. 

If someone is capable of doing this alone, then more power to him.  I’ll do it that way if I have to but, if possible, I’d like input.  For instance, PF indicates he’s going to come up with some questions/propositions.  I’m genuinely interested in what he is going to offer.  I think it highly likely that it will have some real value.  That’s all I’m saying. 

Maybe I’m wrong, maybe it won’t work.  But I think it could.  If nothing else, it would keep whoever ends up doing it on a time schedule. 

Matt Parrott: “We at Hoosier Nation have a growing collection of dedicated activists doing both anonymous and public advocacy work. We host monthly meetings with dozens of supporters (and a 50/50 gender ratio!), regularly stage protest events that pull in dozens of supporters and attract non-humiliating mainstream media coverage. Our message remains true to the core principles while being relatively palatable to apolitical and working class folks. We aren’t another cargo cult with a PO Box. We keep our overhead as lean as possible. Our efforts integrate the latest constituent relationship management techniques and advocacy strategies plucked from throughout the political spectrum. We attend town hall meetings, maintaining productive dialogues with local politicians and community leaders. We pass out petitions then hold the appropriate politicians accountable to them.”

I’ll tell you exactly what I think: that sounds awesome.  I’m not giving out idle flattery, either.  It’s apparent that you have real talent, not just as a writer, but as an organizer as well.

Of course, a lot of questions arise.  It seems that you have met people where they are, which is the first rule of organizing.  But the key is taking them where we need to go - our own nation.  The question, of course, is how to get from here to there?  What needs to be done to pave the way?

You are in a perfect position to give us feedback on where people are at, the problems they may have with us, and what psychological obstacles that we need to overcome.  I get this as much as I can from casual conversations with normal people, always trying to put my finger on the white pulse.  But, as an activist, you are in a much better position to give real feedback.  What works, what doesn’t?  You know as well as I do (as a former libertarian activist myself) that the proof is in the pudding.  In the street, it either works or it doesn’t.  Success is more obvious, and so is failure. 

We need to determine if it is possible to replicate your efforts elsewhere, or whether your success is due to your own unusual skills.  Skilled activists are hard to come by. 

In any event, it is apparent to me that the cultural ground has to be better prepared in order to get where we need to go, but I’d be very interested in what you are seeing on the ground, in the eyes of normal whites. 

Even if you don’t care to participate in the project per se, you could be of great value by keeping us informed as to where the white public is at, what it needs, what kind of approach you think would be successful with them.

Matt Parrott: “Perhaps you would volunteer to host our radio show?”

Dude, I’d love nothing more.  For now, I can’t.  I’m working hard to put myself in a position where I can.  I’ll also say that, right now my career corresponds with something that WN is likely to need more of, so trust me when I say that it’s best this way.  It’s not top secret stuff, but at the same time it would serve no useful purpose to go into it online.  If we ever talk in person, I’ll tell you what I’m thinking.  I chose this particular path despite a short term loss in income, precisely because it may be of use to the movement down the road.  In fact, I’m almost certain that it will be of use.  All perfectly legal and aboveboard, in case anyone is speculating, and it could be helpful for a future activist organization of the sort that we will need, but unfortunately aren’t ready for at present. 

The long and the short of it is that, for now, I’m muzzled.  Not forever.


295

Posted by Trainspotter on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 14:42 | #

Of course, if guessedworker doesn’t sign off on this, much of the conversation is moot.  Frankly, he might well be the best person to host the “50,” but I’ll do it if nobody wants the task. 

I’ll be offline for awhile, but I’ll check this thread either tonight or tomorrow.


296

Posted by Jimmy Marr on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:08 | #

Trainspotter,

I offer myself as your champion. Guessedworker must either support your proposal, or face me in single combat to the death.

If that doesn’t put the fear of G.O.D. into him, I don’t know what will.


297

Posted by Matt Parrott on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:12 | #

Trainspotter,

It’s a disciplined and methodical approach that will assuredly result in illuminating heretofore overlooked opportunities and stumbling blocks. I believe a lot of what we’re doing can be replicated and I look forward to assisting other advocates once our processes are tested, mature, formalized, and documented to that point. I’ll be sure to throw in my thoughts as the project goes along (as if I were capable of shutting myself up).


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Posted by PF on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:23 | #

Jimmy Marr wrote:

If that doesn’t put the fear of G.O.D. into him, I don’t know what will.

Jesus Christ, Jimmy, did you just make a ‘Bowerian’ theory joke?

precious.


299

Posted by Greg Johnson on Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:38 | #

Trainspotter,

I’d be happy to host the sort of series you describe at Counter-Currents. Ideally, I would like the question or topic to be posed in a well-formed short essay/blog post (200-400 words) or a longer opinion piece (800-1000) words. Then the commentariat can hammer away. I do review and edit all posts, so commentators will not have instant gratification. But I think what you are describing would contribute to our goal of creating an intellectual movement that lays the foundations for the emergence of a White ethnostate in North America.


300

Posted by Notus Wind on Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:02 | #

Trainspotter,

You might be interested to know that HW has returned to the real world with the following to say:

...
If 95% of Jews are on the Blue side and 75% of Whites are on the Red side, and the Reds are pushed to the breaking point and carry out their threat of a “Second American Revolution” against the Blues, what does it matter if the Jew goes unnamed, but finds himself financially ruined and thrown out of power?

If such a crisis ever did come, it would so destabilize the status quo that the taboos against White racial consciousness would be shaken to their foundations. It would create the historical opportunity the pro-White movement needs to break into the mainstream.

Of course such a scenario cannot be guaranteed. However, I would argue that it would be far more likely to happen in the aforesaid conditions and that we should use every ounce of our influence to bring those conditions about as they would work to our advantage.
...

If such a crisis were to occur then it might create conditions under which a pro-White movement could penetrate into the mainstream.  Implicit in all this is the admission that those conditions don’t exist right now and that the pro-White movement is not yet capable of breaking into the mainstream.  Which was one of your major points in your debate with him.


301

Posted by Captainchaos on Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:49 | #

If such a crisis were to occur then it might create conditions under which a pro-White movement could penetrate into the mainstream.

This goes to the first of the necessary conditions for White preservation which I laid out in the Barnes thread, coverage of White interest in the mainstream media which is not wholly hostile.

Implicit in all this is the admission that those conditions don’t exist right now and that the pro-White movement is not yet capable of breaking into the mainstream.

And implicit in that is the recognition that growing White hostility to the conditions which are deleterious to Whites, which cannot help but increasingly come into being by virtue of the inertia of multi-racialism, will serve as motivation by way of implied threat to the liberal establishment for the liberal media to grant less than totally hostile mainstream media coverage to White interest.  Something like “Give us a voice there will be blood.”

HW has returned to the real world

I’m not convinced he ever left it in the way that is implied.  He was, as is the wont of some, exploring another perspective, and was, I think, more guilty of offending against an unstated standard bourgeois niceness which must eschew crudity in the minds of his more eloquent critics.  I’m sure it was known by them from jump street that Wallace has been guilty of dithering in the past.  So why all the outrage now and not then?  See above.  It is this selfsame commitment to niceness which his critics unconsciously associate with their perceived superior status to the throngs of the unwashed.  The very same motivation which lends them to treat with Silver with what might be considered a cloying and forced respectfulness were preservation of the race the only motivation for them in play, given that Silver is in many respects fundamentally hostile to racial preservation, or at least Nordic preservation.  An act of proving their own status to themselves by trying to meet Silver’s call for a more genteel racism, though Silver has been guilty of rankest crudity himself in the past.


302

Posted by Notus Wind on Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:09 | #

CC,

This goes to the first of the necessary conditions for White preservation which I laid out in the Barnes thread, coverage of White interest in the mainstream media which is not wholly hostile.
...
And implicit in that is the recognition that growing White hostility to the conditions which are deleterious to Whites, which cannot help but increasingly come into being by virtue of the inertia of multi-racialism, will serve as motivation by way of implied threat to the liberal establishment for the liberal media to grant less than totally hostile mainstream media coverage to White interest.  Something like “Give us a voice there will be blood.”

Agreed.

I’m not convinced he ever left it in the way that is implied.

If you reread the debate between Trainspotter and HW over at OD I think you’ll see what I mean.


303

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Sat, 14 Aug 2010 00:58 | #

Unfashionable Observation: “Hunter” is rapidly moving away from racialism and toward Tea Party conservatism (e.g. Glenn Beck) and the “patriot movement” (e.g. Alex Jones).


304

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Sat, 14 Aug 2010 01:22 | #

Unfashionable Observation: Since he is now promoting Tea Party conservatism, downplaying race, and saying the real issue is “Reds” vs. “Blues”, “Hunter” ought to look into blogging for RedState.com


305

Posted by Lena on Sat, 14 Aug 2010 02:45 | #

This is what HW’s DUPES defend:

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/07/26/tea_party_caucus_members_endorse_israeli_attack_on_iran

The Tea Partiers unbounded and enthusiastic support for Israel is the purpose of the movement, But I guess we should just ignore this:

“Now that the congressional supporters of the Tea Party movement have formed their own caucus, their policy positions are becoming easier to track. Expanding their foray into foreign policy, 21 members of the new caucus have now come out explicitly endorsing Israel’s right to strike Iran’s nuclear program.”

All the while Gulf residents are choking on toxic fumes, thanks to the Federal Government and BP.  The Gulf Stream may be shut down!!!!!

YET-

“Almost two dozen Tea Party-affiliated lawmakers cosponsored a new resolution late last week that expresses their support for Israel “to use all means necessary to confront and eliminate nuclear threats posed by the Islamic Republic of Iran, including the use of military force.”

The lead sponsor of the resolution was Texas Republican Louie Gohmert, one of four congressmen to announce the formation of the 44-member Tea Party caucus at a press conference on July 21. The other three Tea Party Caucus leaders, Michele Bachmann, R-MN, Steve King, R-IA, and John Culberson, R-TX, are also sponsors of the resolution. In total, 21 Tea Party Caucus members have signed on, according to the latest list of caucus members put out by Bachmann’s office. “


The TP’s Resolution:


Expressing support for the State of Israel’s right to defend Israeli sovereignty,
to protect the lives and safety of the Israeli people, and to use all
means necessary to confront and eliminate nuclear threats posed by
the Islamic Republic of Iran, including the use of military force if
no other peaceful solution can be found within reasonable time to protect
against such an immediate and existential threat to the State of Israel.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
JULY 22, 2010
Mr. GOHMERT (for himself, Mr. AKIN, Mrs. BACHMANN, Mr. BARTLETT, Mr.
BISHOP of Utah, Mrs. BLACKBURN, Mr. BONNER, Mr. BROUN of Georgia,
Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. CAMPBELL, Mr. CHAFFETZ, Mr.
CONAWAY, Mr. CULBERSON, Ms. FALLIN, Mr. FLEMING, Mr. FRANKS of
Arizona, Mr. GINGREY of Georgia, Ms. GRANGER, Mr. GRIFFITH, Mr.
HENSARLING, Mr. HERGER, Mr. KING of Iowa, Mr. LAMBORN, Mr.
LATTA, Mr. LOBIONDO, Mrs. LUMMIS, Mr. MARCHANT, Mr.
NEUGEBAUER, Mr. PENCE, Mr. PITTS, Mr. POSEY, Mr. PRICE of Georgia,
Mr. OLSON, Mr. ROONEY, Mrs. SCHMIDT, Mr. SHADEGG, Mr. SMITH
of Texas, Mr. WESTMORELAND, Mr. ROSKAM, Mr. MCCOTTER, Mr.
BROWN of South Carolina, Mr. RYAN of Wisconsin, Mr. MCCLINTOCK,
Mr. JORDAN of Ohio, Mr. BARTON of Texas, Mr. KINGSTON, and Mr.
CARTER) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the
Committee on Foreign Affairs

RESOLUTION
Expressing support for the State of Israel’s right to defend
Israeli sovereignty, to protect the lives and safety of
the Israeli people, and to use all means necessary to
confront and eliminate nuclear threats posed by the Islamic
Republic of Iran, including the use of military…..

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_documents/100726_HRes1553.pdf


306

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Tue, 17 Aug 2010 03:32 | #

Hunter keeps beating down strawmen, offering up false dichotomies, and prattling on about “Reds” vs. “Blues”.


307

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Tue, 17 Aug 2010 03:43 | #

Unfashionable Observation: Hunter is presenting false dichotomies.  He wants you to believe the choice is between the Tea Party and the Nationalist Socialist Movement.  In Hunter’s mind, Sarah Palin and Hal Turner are the only options.


308

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:52 | #

Hunter and pals think the Tea Party represents a “sudden collapse of the old consensus”.  Are these people’s memories that short?  Don’t they remember the anti-Clinton movement and Republican Revolution of 1994?  The Tea Party is business as usual.

A few months ago, Hunter himself was making some of the strongest and most forceful criticisms of what he now supports!

This is what Hunter thought about conservatism and the Tea Party:

conservatism is for retards

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2010/01/28/more-conservatism/

No serious threat to the status quo will ever arise within the “synagogue of political correctness.” The gelded court conservatives who fret endlessly at the prospect of being expelled from the congregation are only fooling themselves that they can accomplish anything on the terms of the enemy. They are a controlled opposition. In participating in this anti-White system, they are giving it legitimacy and postponing the day when a serious revolutionary movement can rise to challenge the status quo.

In the short term, expect the Tea Partiers to do what they always do: in 2010, prostitute their votes to the system candidate with an (R) beside his name, undoubtedly at the urging of the loudmouths on conservative talk radio. Barring some major transformative event, this sort of kabuki theatre will go on until national conservative politics finally becomes untenable due to changing racial demographics.

I hope conservatism will continue its losing streak. I don’t want to see it win again.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2009/09/24/uppity-whites/

The conservatives had fifty years to reverse our racial degeneration. We have nothing to show for it. At this late date, I am convinced it is “White Nationalism or bust” for America’s White majority.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2009/10/24/is-it-time-to-dump-the-conservatives/

[Guy White] is a daily reminder of the patriotarded who stalk the pro-White blogosphere and their drool cup rightwing neoconservatism. To borrow a phrase from Tom Fleming, these poltroons must be prevented from infecting our discourse.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2009/07/27/gw/


309

Posted by Lena on Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:04 | #

Tea Party movement members went ballistic and had conniption fits when BP was ordered to put in escrow 20 million for disaster clean up and damages caused to the Gulf Coast eco-system and American people, But when Obama charges Americans a record 2.775 billion for “security” in Israel, Tea Partiers wink, nod and cheer.  Massive fish kills up and down the east coast, who cares!  It is indefensible.  The Tea Party movement has proved itself totally useless at exposing government /corporate lies that threaten the life and treasure of Americans -  and as they beat the drum hysterically for war with Iran, they apparently have learned nothing or forget the lessons of Iraq, which was a stealth transfer of wealth and a human catastrophe.  But a Mosque at ground zero should do the trick of whipping up support to murder more men, women and children who have done nothing to them.  If it was not so pathetic and horrible it would be funny.

And while Tea Party super star Rand Paul was criticizing Americans who would dare to criticize the BP,  jews were feeling good:

“This is manna from heaven for us,” said Ira Forman, CEO of the National Jewish Democratic Council. “And it’s not just in Kentucky. Like Sarah Palin, Rand Paul is going to be very good for Jewish Democrats.”
Read more: The Jewish Chronicle - Tea Party rise Rand Paul win has Republican Jews nervous

Meanwhile all the money in escrow that the Tea Partiers were so concerned about has been used to limit BP’s liability! 

As food prices are expected to sky rocket I am sure Tea Partiers will see to it that jews in Israel are fed before Americans, especially Americans in the South who the DUPES are content to let rot in a toxic dead zone.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/marketreport/7946789/Meat-prices-set-to-jump-after-wheat-crop-failures.html

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/archives/211383.asp


310

Posted by Lena on Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:08 | #

Yeah, a real “sudden collapse of the old consensus.”  LOL.


311

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:13 | #

Lena’s blog:

http://lenashive.wordpress.com/


312

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:11 | #

“Hunter” now believes white nationalism is “completely irrelevant”.  “Hunter” also praises conservatism for being “the only force holding back the fire”.  As long as it takes 50 years rather than 5 for our race to be destroyed, “Hunter” is satisfied!

A few months ago, “Hunter” said “conservatism is for retards” and “The conservatives had fifty years to reverse our racial degeneration. We have nothing to show for it. At this late date, I am convinced it is ‘White Nationalism or bust’ for America’s White majority.”


313

Posted by Gudmund on Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:27 | #

The Tea Party movement has proved itself totally useless at exposing government /corporate lies that threaten the life and treasure of Americans - and as they beat the drum hysterically for war with Iran, they apparently have learned nothing or forget the lessons of Iraq, which was a stealth transfer of wealth and a human catastrophe.
>Lena

... And people wonder why I have very little faith in “the common man” vis-a-vis our coming struggle for liberation.  The Tea Party is not a fringe movement, it is a reasonable cross section of White America.  When this is what you have to work with it is not very encouraging.  Most of these people cringe at the slightest accusation of racism, support 19th century notions of unlimited capitalism which are inimical to the Aryan soul, and practically worship the Jews.  One man of quality fanatically committed to the liberation and survival of our people is worth untold numbers of these peasants.


314

Posted by Wandrin on Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:39 | #

Ignoring all the drama i think Donovan’s stuff is good, especially for the younger men who didn’t grow up when there were sensible male role-models.

His piece on knighthood was a good example of a moral ideal. There’s a scene in that Crusades film where someone asks the hero “do you think simply calling a man a knight will make him fight better?” and the obvious answer (for some men) is yes it will.

The psychological power of abstract moral idealism. The sort of people jumping onto whalers from Greenpeace ships are exactly the same kind of people as those who were first up the ladder at Jerusalem or the most die-hard Hitler Youth. The mechanism is the same imo.


315

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:58 | #

Our Scene

“Hunter”: “We joke around about the Laptop Luftwaffe all the time around here. Their idea of resistance consists of bombarding the enemy with electrons in the anonymity of cyberspace.”

Unfashionable Observation

“Hunter”‘s idea of resistance is voting for Sarah Palin, screaming at Jeffery Imm in a public park, and going to a Tea Party rally.


316

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:16 | #

Why Conservatives Can’t Win

by Dr. William L. Pierce

Some of my best friends are conservatives. I sincerely like them and I admire them for their genuine virtues: for their sense of propriety and personal integrity in an age of corruption, for their independent spirit and their willingness to stand on their own feet in an increasingly paternalistic society.

Therefore, I hope my conservative friends will forgive me for what I am about to write.

A Tragic Choice

There is not the least doubt in my mind that if I were forced to cast my lot with either conservatism or with the left - old or new - I would choose conservatism.

But fortunately, none of us is faced with such a limited choice. It would surely be tragic if we were. It would be tragic in the great sense, in the Spenglerian sense. We would be making the choice of Spengler’s Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii - who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. We would be choosing what is right and honorable and in accord with the traditions of our race - and certain to fail.

For conservatives cannot possibly emerge victorious from the life-or-death struggle in which they are presently engaged. Although their opponents on the radical left may not attain their own goals - indeed, cannot attain them, because they are based on an erroneous conception of man and Nature - conservatives have proved themselves utterly incapable of preventing the destruction of their own world by those same radical leftists.

Revolutionary Advantage

Conservatives cannot win because the enemy to which they are opposed is a revolutionary enemy - an enemy with revolutionary goals and guided by a revolutionary way of life.

The advantage has always lain - and will always lie - on the side of the contender who is prepared to take the offensive, rather than maintaining a defensive position only. And the evolutionary natures of the conservative and the revolutionary determine that the one shall always play an essentially defensive role and the other an offensive role.

Besieged vs. Besieger

The offensive-defensive dichotomy does not apply absolutely to tactics, of course, but it does to strategy. The conservative may launch brief counterattacks - he may sally forth from his fortress to harry his revolutionary besieger - but in the long run he is always the besieged and the revolutionary the besieger.

The goal of the conservative is to protect what is, or, at the extreme, to restore what recently was. The goal of the revolutionary is to radically transform what is, or to do away with it altogether, so that it can be replaced by something entirely different.

Raceless Nirvana

Thus, the conservative talks of halting crime in the streets, of keeping down taxes, of fighting the spread of drugs and pornography, of keeping Big Government in check. And the leftist strives for a utopia in which there shall be no war, no “repression,” no “discrimination,” no “racism,” no bounds on the individual’s freedom of action - a raceless and effortless nirvana of “love” and “equality” and plenty.

Never-Never Land

The conservative’s goals may seem reasonable enough - and attainable. The leftist’s goals, on the other hand, lie in a never-never land far beyond the horizon of reality. And that is precisely what gives the advantage to the left. When the conservative makes some minor gain - getting a conservative into office - he is likely to act as if he had just won the whole war. He sees the achievement of his aims just around the corner, he lowers his guard, and he settles back to enjoy the fruits of his imagined victory. But the leftist is never satisfied, regardless of what concessions are made to his side, for his goals always remain as remote as before.

The conservative works in fits and spurts. He reacts with alarm to new depredations from the left, but is satisfied if he is able to fall back, regroup his wagons, and establish a new line of defense. The leftist keeps on pushing, probing, advancing, taking a step back now and then, but only to be able to take three steps forward later.

Defeat by Halves

If the leftist makes new demands - for example, for the forced racial integration of schools or housing - the conservative will oppose them with a plea to maintain “neighborhood” schools and “freedom of association.” When the smoke clears, the leftist will have won perhaps half what he demanded, and the conservative will have lost half what he tried to preserve.

But then the conservative will accept the new status quo, as if things had always been that way, and prepare to defend it against fresh attacks from the left with the same ineptitude he displayed in defending the old position.

Evil Ideology

This continually shifting position is almost as great a disadvantage to the conservative as is his chronic inability to grasp the initiative. The revolutionary left has an ideology, evil and unnatural though it may be, and from this ideology come the unity and the continuity of purpose which are indispensable prerequisites for victory.

What can conservatives, on the other hand, look to as a fighting credo, an immutable principle for which they are willing to sacrifice all? They have been retreating so rapidly for the last 50 years or so that they have completely lost sight of the earlier ground on which they stood. It has simply receded over the ideological horizon.

“Racists” Are Radicals

Consider race, for example. Over half a century ago men like Madison Grant and Lothrop Stoddard were spokesmen for the conservative position on race. They argued eloquently, albeit defensively, for the preservation of the West’s racial identity by maintaining strict barriers against miscegenation, adopting sound immigration controls, and applying eugenic standards to the problem of population quality. Today no “responsible” conservative would be caught with the books of either of these men in his living-room bookcase, for by present conservative standards they are both “racists” - hence, “radicals,” rather than safely respectable conservatives.

Free-Enterprise Pitfall

How about rescuing the free-enterprise system from the evil machinations of Big Government?

As a matter of fact, the free-enterprise system was still relatively intact during the period when alien forces subverted our governments and took over our countries, and it cannot be said that free enterprise slowed them down even one little bit. The people who gained control of our biggest newspapers and our motion-picture industry and our radio and TV networks did so with the aid of free enterprise, rather than in spite of it.

More than Economics

These comments should not be considered a condemnation of free-enterprise per se, nor a belittling of the importance of economic problems in general; more than one nation has gone to ruin through economic mismanagement. The point is that our problems today go far deeper than any governmental or economic reforms can hope to cure or even substantially ameliorate.

The youth of America are smart enough to recognize these things for themselves, and, consequently, are not to be blamed for having few tears to shed for the demise of either our institutions of government or laissez-faire capitalism.

The left can find plenty of misguided young fanatics willing to set themselves afire or blow up a police station in order to further the cause of “equality” or “peace” but the idea of young men and women assembling bombs in candle-lit cellars to put an end to the progressive income tax or social security deductions is simply ridiculous.

Until conservatives can offer something more inspiring, the youth will not rally to their standard.

Conservatism’s two principle failings, lack of a spirit of aggressive activism and lack of any clearly defined ideological basis, go hand in hand. The one cannot be had without the other.

Ultimate Goals

In the words of an outstanding anti-communist leader: “The lack of a great, creative idea always signifies a limitation of fighting ability. A firm conviction of the right to use each and any weapon is always bound up with a fanatical belief in the necessity of the victory of a revolutionary new order on this earth.”

“A movement which is not fighting for such ultimate goals and ideas will never seize upon the ultimate weapon” ... and, needless to say, will never emerge victorious from a struggle with an opponent who is so motivated.

Revolutionary vs. Revolutionary

Though conservatism cannot win against the left, a new revolutionary force, with the spiritual basis that conservatism lacks, and advancing with even more boldness and determination than the forces of the left, can win!

That new revolutionary force is being built now. Its ranks are being filled with disciplined, idealistic young men and women.

They have examined and found wanting both the drugs-and-sex libertinism of the left and the economic libertinism of the right.

A New Order

They are fighting for a new order, based not on the fads and whims of the moment, but on the fundamental values of race and personality - values which once led Western man to the mastery of the earth and which can yet regain that mastery for him and lead him on to the conquest of the universe.

They know that the time is long past when conservative rhetoric or conservative votes might have saved the day. They understand that the West’s salvation must now come from young men and women of revolutionary spirit and outlook who are through talking and instead are willing to do whatever is necessary to take back their nation.


317

Posted by Trainspotter on Wed, 18 Aug 2010 01:21 | #

Unfashionable Observations, thanks for posting the Pierce essay.  Spot on. 

Pierce addresses the fundamental point of contention between Hunter and myself.  Conservatives don’t win, not because they are dumb or unluckly, but because they CAN’T.  Just “getting active” for the sake of getting active accomplishes little or nothing, so long as one lacks an animating vision.  We’ve seen conservative backlashes time and time again.  Nothing enduring ever comes from them, and the anti-white tide sweeps on. 

The revolutionary ideology with the animating vision, on the other hand, at least has a chance.  It has the questing spirit, a sense of the eternal, always on the offense. 

My point is that it’s our job to create (as best we can) and spread that vision.  The only way that conservatives could possibly win is if we give them what they lack, the gift of an animating vision.  And, truth be told, I think they are in real danger of getting this at some point.  Certainly, revolutionary ideas are in the air in a way that they haven’t been in my lifetime.  I say, let’s help that along. 

Obviously, Hunter doesn’t see it that way.  Beyond that fundamental divide, and the side issue of anonymity, the debate largely involved rather silly straw men, not worth taking seriously (no matter how far our ideas spread, magically they will have no effect!). 

Then comes Pierce, like a breath of fresh air, and gets directly to the heart of the matter.  Damn he was good at what he did. 

Still, Hunter has talent even when he’s wrong, and on many things he’s not wrong.  Much of his writing is still on point, so we’ll see.  It is not yet certain that his error in one area will inevitably lead to error in all others, though it is certainly possible.  Let’s hope not.


318

Posted by Lena on Wed, 18 Aug 2010 02:29 | #

As OD attempts to be more moderate, more legitimate and to follow like lemmings the mainstream media, as HW continues to slander and mock White advocates for writing on the internet -  our last refuge of free speech and only alternative to jewish dominated press, as he continues everyday to profess undying support for the tea party movement that openly supports financing Zionism, and lubricating jews with billions and billions of dollars while whites live in poverty and homeless in Las Vegas sewers-  What William Hazlitt had to say about Robert Southey is quite apropos: 

“He wooed Liberty as a youthful lover, but it was perhaps more as a mistress than a bride; and he has since wedded with an elderly and not very reputable lady, called Legitimacy.”

Of coarse in HW’s case it would be,  “He wooed racialism as a not so youthful lover ...”


319

Posted by the colonel on Wed, 18 Aug 2010 07:12 | #

“Hunter“‘s idea of resistance is voting for Sarah Palin, screaming at Jeffery Imm in a public park, and going to a Tea Party rally.

And eating my home-style fried chicken!


320

Posted by LEW on Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:48 | #

And William Pierce despite his brilliance died having accomplished exactly nothing in the real world. So clearly his approach wasn’t effective either.


321

Posted by Trainspotter on Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:46 | #

“And William Pierce despite his brilliance died having accomplished exactly nothing in the real world. So clearly his approach wasn’t effective either.”

One might have said the same thing of Zionism circa 1920, or any number of other movements in the years before they achieved success.  Truth be told, we won’t definitively know the winning approach until we, well, win.  Until that time, the best that we can do is examine the historical record and the world around us, extracting and implementing the lessons that we can. 

The historical record of conservatism versus revolutionary, animating movements is pretty clear.  Conservatism always gives ground, always makes way.  Sometimes faster, sometimes slower, but the pattern is unmistakable.  The pattern is not an accident, but rather is in the nature of things. 

The fact that we have failed to master the development and propagation of an animating ideology is not proof of its failure, but rather of ours.  The approach has a very strong success rate, our failure to master the approach notwithstanding.  Others retreat to their cups, we retreat to our charts.  History shows that you do not win in such a manner.   

As to Pierce, his legacy lives on in the hearts and minds of those that he influenced, not to mention the “second generation” that in turn have been influenced by them, and so on.  Not a bad legacy, all in all, and as the final chapter of this saga has yet to be written, it may well turn out to have been a decisive influence.  We’ll just have to see.


322

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Thu, 19 Aug 2010 05:47 | #

ATBOTL keeps up his great comments at OD.  Hunter Wallace and H. Rock White remain clueless.

ATBOTL says:
August 19, 2010 at 7:42 am

“Scam or not, it seems to me they advance our objectives when they disseminate polarizing information to White people that otherwise would never see the light of day.”

Then why didn’t it lead to anything productive when it happened continuously for the last 50 years?

The best thing possible for whites in America would be for the GOP and Fox News to become ultra PC and explicitly anti-white. If that happened, we would see a big influx of the more radical conservative types into WN(big relative to the current number of WNs, but small compared to the total number of conservatives).

The same dynamic is visible in Europe, where the mainstream right is much further to the left than in America while the “far right” is much larger. We see that whenever the mainstream right in Europe starts using rhetoric like that used by conservative politicians in America — for example Sarkozy in France or Thatcher in the UK during the 1979 election — support for the “far right” drop dramatically. Support for the “far right in Europe is strong when the mainstream right doesn’t criticize leftist immigration and diversity policies, like in the today’s Netherlands and UK.

I’m still waiting for the Tea-drinkers to explain why this racially tinged right wing populist tantrum is different from all the other ones over the last 50 years.

It seems to me that Hunter and many of the commenters here don’t understand the concept of “false opposition.” You need to take white nationalism 101. The whole point of the concept is that the mainstream right stealing parts of our message without seriously advocating pro-white policies actually hurts us, even it seems temporarily like the wind is blowing in our direction. This is so basic.

This debate is SO reminiscent of the debate in WN in the early to mid 90?s about the “Republican Revolution,” militia movement, LA riots etc. It’s like it was copied from the alt.nationalism.white newsgroup. Many people thought during that period that America was moving inexorably towards race war and that the GOP was on the verge of becoming a pro-white party. Only a few “extremists” like the William Pierce said nothing good would come out of the ascendant conservative movement. As we all know, in the late 90?s, race and immigration dropped off the political radar, the GOP decided Hispanics were the future and the neocons purged the last remaining whites with any racial consciousness out of the conservative movement.

Expect something similar to happen if the GOP wins big the upcoming Congressional elections and wins back the presidency in 2012. All the Glen Beck types will stop complaining about things and spend all their energy defending the new GOP incumbents, no matter what they do. If there is a war with Iran, supporting that will become a new rallying point for Tea Party types, just like supporting the Iraq war was so wide spread among conservative white males in 2003-2006 that it could have counted as one of these “implicitly white” movements.


323

Posted by Kevin Riley O'Keeffe on Thu, 19 Aug 2010 07:52 | #

Hunter and pals think the Tea Party represents a “sudden collapse of the old consensus”.  Are these people’s memories that short?  Don’t they remember the anti-Clinton movement and Republican Revolution of 1994?  The Tea Party is business as usual.

Not sure about his “pals,” but Hunter is probably too young to appreciate the extent to which we’ve seen this show before.  While almost no one agrees with me (although I note so many of my detractors in this regard often share Hunter’s youthful demographic), I actually recall the anti-Clinton furor to be more intense than the “Tea Party” brouhaha of the present day.  Hunter is falling into the trap a lot of people on the far-right are falling into ie., believing that it particularly matters that Barack Obama is some sort of mulatto.  People oppose him because he’s the first unabashed Northern liberal since FDR, not because his dad was Kenyan.  There isn’t some vast White awakening that rejects Black rule (which really doesn’t exist in any meaningful sense), but rather a fairly ordinary partisan reaction to a left-of-center President.  Its all well and good to be pleased that a Republican House of Representatives (and possibly even Senate) will greatly reduce Obama’s ability to make mischief (and thus, ironically, it will probably aid greatly in his bid for re-election, just as it did for Clinton), but to imagine this is some sort of harbinger of revolution, well, that’s bordering on the preposterous.


324

Posted by Wandrin on Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:37 | #

Ditto Trainspotter. You can’t write off what Pierce accomplished until there’s no one left who’s influenced by his writings.


325

Posted by Sam Davidson on Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:24 | #

Pierce was repeating the same criticisms that Hitler made in Mein Kampf. It’s sad that people still put faith into the old bourgeois-conservative trap.

The conservatives don’t care about race - they care about property rights. A couple of White kids get raped and dismembered in Knoxville - who cares? The conservatives are too busy worrying about whether or not they’ll have to pay for state health-insurance. That’s why our main duty is to hammer away at the race issue. Again and again!


326

Posted by Kevin Riley O'Keeffe on Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:23 | #


327

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:36 | #

I agree that long comment by ATBOTL a few above (pasted by Unfashionable) is quite good.  ATBOTL generally does good work.


328

Posted by LEW on Thu, 19 Aug 2010 23:28 | #

“The fact that we have failed to master the development and propagation of an animating ideology is not proof of its failure, but rather of ours.  The approach has a very strong success rate, our failure to master the approach notwithstanding.”

Well, when a great mind like William Pierce fails to develop a viable method for propagating the ideology over the course of decades, it’s probably because the prevailing social and cultural conditions make the ideology impossible to propagate no matter who does the propagating, how often they do it, or how well they do it.

In this sense, Pierce’s revolutionary ideology is most definitely a failure because he came up with something has no chance of success given our historical context. Pierce’s approach will only work in times, places and situations where the culture and society are prepared to embrace a revolutionary politic, such as Germany in the 1920s. Hitler was able to achieve success with his revolutionary approach, at least for a time, because he benefited from a unique confluence of circumstances that will almost certainly never exist again anywhere in the world. I’m sure Pierce must have understood this issue, but if addressed it in his writings I haven’t seen it.

Anyway, until the US reaches its own equivalent of 1920s Germany, propagating a revolutionary ideology that will always fail to move people has little real value. In the meantime, it’s not clear to me exactly what the downside is to working with conservatives, not becoming one, but working with them until the culture is ready for a more hardcore message. If, for example, a White Advocate can work with local conservatives to make life uncomfortable for illegal immigrants while also nudging those conservatives toward explicit racialism, that seems to me to have a lot more value now than pushing revolution.


329

Posted by Wandrin on Fri, 20 Aug 2010 00:02 | #

The conservatives don’t care about race - they care about property rights.

Just as an aside, a good line to take with people like that is:

The [party of the “left”] want mass immigration as a way to import votes but to do that once they’re here they need to bribe them with welfare and government handouts. Guess who’s going to pay for it? It won’t be the rich who bribe the [party of the “right”] to support mass immigration for cheap labour. Those sort of people never pay tax. It’ll be the middle class who get bled dry to pay the welfare bribes.


330

Posted by The sudden collapse of Occidental Dissent on Sun, 22 Aug 2010 16:40 | #

Hunter has thrown in the towel.  He’s leaving Virginia and going back to Alabama.  A short time ago, Hunter boasted that he had established a “White Nationalist cell” in Virginia and was making enormous progress.  He was meeting all kinds of important people and was going to be starting a new cell in Northern Virginia and creating a new organization in Virginia later this year.

Then he had an argument with Greg Johnson and decided to give up, become a Tea Party conservative, and leave Virginia.

Look on the bright side, though.  He’ll only be 90 miles from the Southern Poverty Law Center.  A couple of years ago Morris Dees’s daughter was the apple of Fade’s eye.  Maybe he wants to pursue the lovely Heidi Beirich this time.


331

Posted by Wandrin on Sun, 22 Aug 2010 17:18 | #

Even if that was all true he briefly managed to create a platform that got a lot of good ideas out there and planted a few seeds.

So more pro than con imo.


332

Posted by Trainspotter on Sun, 22 Aug 2010 22:22 | #

Lew:“Well, when a great mind like William Pierce fails to develop a viable method for propagating the ideology over the course of decades, it’s probably because the prevailing social and cultural conditions make the ideology impossible to propagate no matter who does the propagating, how often they do it, or how well they do it.”

Pierce only had access to the internet for a relative handful of years.  In that time, he educated and informed many, many people.  His “spinoffs” are all over the place.  Probably most white nationalists have been influenced by him, including second generation types that don’t even know who he is.  He also built up a fairly significant organization, not to mention penning probably the best known book to come out of modern white nationalism. 

On the other hand, he had his limitations.  For example, he was not very charismatic. I found his radio voice gruff and somewhat offputting at times.  The Turner Diaries, while influential in its way, was hardly a magnum opus.  Perhaps most telling, his organization did not meaningfully survive his death (some would dispute that, but you know what I mean).  A “true” organization would have lived long and prospered, and that he failed to create.

Point is, he did what he did, he generally did it well (and at times superbly), but that’s as far as it goes.  The idea that this proves that the spread of intellectual ideas is somehow not viable is rather ludicrous (not sure that you’re going that far). It proves no such thing. 

Pierce made a major, and I do mean major, contribution to building the intellectual foundation of white nationalism.  That is work that absolutely must be done.  How can our vision ever spread, ever attain victory, if it is not even developed? Obviously, it can’t.  The fact that Pierce did not deliver us an ethnostate in his lifetime doesn’t change any of this.  It simply means that he wasn’t Superman, nothing more.

Lew:“In this sense, Pierce’s revolutionary ideology is most definitely a failure because he came up with something has no chance of success given our historical context.”

No, it doesn’t mean that at all.  Does the typical revolutionary idea win overnight?  Of course it doesn’t.  First, it has to be developed and spread.  Sometimes this can happen fairly quickly, but more often it takes a significant amount of time. What you are doing is akin to calling Karl Marx a failure, a man who died decades before the establishment of the first Marxist state.  His ideas would in many ways dominate the twentieth century, a century that he himself would never step foot in.  If that’s failure, then bring it on. 

There is a distinct process that a revolutionary movement must go through, and this process is readily discernible from the historical record.  I’m saying: let’s learn from that. 

Lew: “Anyway, until the US reaches its own equivalent of 1920s Germany, propagating a revolutionary ideology that will always fail to move people has little real value.”

Not only does it have value, it is essential.  We don’t know when the conditions will be *just right* for us.  We don’t control those things.  But if we aren’t ready when it happens, the historical moment may well pass us by.  The Leftists did a tremendous amount of groundwork prior their successes.  The intellectual foundation for their twentieth century victories was being actively built in the nineteenth, and they were ready when the time came.  Right now, even if circumstances were favorable, white nationalism isn’t close to being ready. It tries to put the cart before the horse.  It expects results when the groundwork hasn’t been done. 

Lew: “If, for example, a White Advocate can work with local conservatives to make life uncomfortable for illegal immigrants while also nudging those conservatives toward explicit racialism, that seems to me to have a lot more value now than pushing revolution.”

Fine, go for it.  But they are going to expect you to shut up and not discuss race.  If you do bring race into it, they may very well boot you out in order to prove how open minded and tolerant they are.  I don’t see any value in that.  None whatsoever.  Total waste of time.  Because we haven’t taken the time and effort to spread our ideas, there aren’t enough of us.  Therefore, the Hannity and Beck types aren’t interested in a coalition with us.  We are not numerous enough to help them, therefore we are radioactive.  Again, total waste of time.  The solution is obvious: spread our ideas until we have enough adherents that we can’t be ignored.  Right now, not only can we be ingnored, it pays to actively condemn us. You want to work these people?  I don’t. 

The truth, at this point in the game, is that if white nationalists blend into the woodwork, we’ll never be heard from again.  There currently aren’t enough of us to transform the existing institutions, even by stealth.  We need to concentrate on developing our own approach, making it as appealing and palatable as possible, and do our part to change the culture, not give into it.  This is not to say that nobody should ever work within a more mainstream group.  If someone is so positioned and so inclined, I say go for it.  But the bottom line is that we won’t have a prayer of getting much in terms of results until we have spread our message much further than is the case today.  On the other hand, as the ideas spread, you’ll start to see “friendlies” in all sorts of organizations, finding allies where you least expected it.  At that point, mainstream organizations may well become more fertile fields to work in,  But now?  I doubt it.  We need far more adherents first, and you don’t get them by blending in and disappearing.


333

Posted by Trainspotter on Sun, 22 Aug 2010 23:08 | #

Wandrin: “Even if that was all true he briefly managed to create a platform that got a lot of good ideas out there and planted a few seeds.  So more pro than con imo.”

Agreed, though I will say that this habit of building platforms up, then tearing them down, has gotten old.  I truly wish Hunter the best, but hopefully he will break this pattern once and for all.  It needs to stop.  But the truth is that, whatever his shortcomings, the guy has got talent.  He COULD do it again, that’s the amazing thing, but we’re not supposed to be in the sand castle business.


334

Posted by Michael Vilmar Avery on Mon, 23 Aug 2010 05:26 | #

Hunter has thrown in the towel.  He’s leaving Virginia and going back to Alabama.

Perhaps Hunter is just going down there to rejuvenate so to speak. 

If one reads his OD Archives he argued all the time that Alabama was ‘racialist’ so perhaps being in the Deep South will be better for him as a enviroment and he can make yet another ideological shift and (re)start putting out good material again. 

The possibility is slightly there. 

P.S. Hopefully the OD Archives will be around though.  It was great to see people quoting Hunter from like just 3 months ago on the worthlessness of ‘kosher conservatives’ to refute his current ‘tea party phase’.


335

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:05 | #

“Hunter Wallace”‘s transformation into Tea Party kool-aid drinker is complete.  He’s having an orgasm because “the Republicans are on the march”.


336

Posted by GT on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:07 | #

95% of the present (non) movement accretion could be filtered out if the following requirements were in place:

* Heterosexual

*  Married

*  Has fathered and raises/raised biological children with a white woman.

*  Is gainfully employed and has proof by way of paying FICA anytime in the last five years

* Can pass random urine screening tests for illegal drugs, pass spot breathalyzer & field sobriety tests.

For any leadership position:

* Is not drawing social security.

———————

This guy has independently derived the PLE (Pioneer Little Europe) without (non) movement help:

http://factorefarm.org/

“By our analysis, most of the technologies needed for a sustainable and pleasant standard of living could be reduced to the cost of scrap metal + labor. There is immense potential for social transformation once this technology is fully developed for building interconnected self-sufficient communities, since people will be freed from material constraints and able to seek self-actualization.”

Yes indeed…by our analysis (Maguire and myself) too.


337

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:28 | #

GT,

Fear of God would fit nicely in your set of requirements, but I suspect you’d reject that necessity?


338

Posted by GT on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:13 | #

Thorn,

When you can prove its necessity, I’ll accept the requirement.


339

Posted by uh on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:14 | #

GT,

Useful link. I briefly argued for this sort of project some months ago and was ignored. Nonetheless: it is exactly what should be happening to get us out of the digital rut and back into the real world, “creating community” as the Left likes to chant. Missouri is a poor choice in my opinion, but choices are very limited. I believe eastern Europe is the best out there. Kwa is uniformly already a nightmare and worsens faster than even western Europe. In Germany one cannot speak of the holohoax, but one can at least be healthier and avoid blacks most of the time. Further east the blacks thin to nothing and the people are always happy to air their grievances against Jews, and above all: property is much cheaper. So there are Gypsies—here it’s negrified white dudes who give you the evil eye because they all think they’re starring in UFC. At least the Gypos are a FOLK. Also, in most of the countries you can stash a couple rifles in your closet without fear that the UN, the only armed pan-European body, will send ZOG-Truppen storming in to shake you down: as here with the FBI.

“Pioneer Little Europe” is a dud. Real projects do not issue from Stormfroth; they issue from men with a bit of means, to which your requirements amount. Axiom: Anything prescriptive discussed by White Nationalists is necessarily pure fantasy. Necessarily because it takes places on the internet and given names before & without real potential. Kievsky comes closest but his character is overbearing and private. Unfortunately these are (non)movement-wide psychological traits which come with openness to right-wing ideas: if we value white domestic tradition, the ideal lifestyle will be a jealously private & self-sufficient household with strong paternal authority and suspicion of outsiders (exactly opposite the old “communal” Aryan imperative of hospitality expressed in the root *ghosti- and still encountered among Spaniards, Slavs, Afghans and Hindustanis). Thus by the very fact of being opposed to modernity (not to mention of wildly diverse backgrounds, bookish, brooding, etc.) we are incapable of extended community. So all courting of communal ideas by the herd is but still-born nostalgia. Sooner will Ontology Save Us All than white nationalists do something constructive together for the sake of weathering Kwa, avoiding isolation, and building a folkish bridge to the future.


PS—I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near a community operating under your requirements ... a sentiment that would be quite mutual, I know, but we can see the germ of this inability to create community in your invasive, big-brotherly “spot breathalyzer” tests for the movement faithful. Perhaps it seems I’m mixing your requirements for movement acceptance with rules for real community, but only in such a community could “spot breathalyzer” tests be administered, so you are actually condemning any community to bureaucratic unkindnesses reminiscent of one of the worst facets of modern life. Everything tested, clean, boring, dead. Leftists “come together” because they have fun; they don’t need to impose stupid ninny rules on each other to get ahead or convince: on the contrary, boozing and the like are credentials even & especially in their intellectuals. Whereas on the right, where every would-be leader is mercilessly scrutinized & libeled, reinforced in us is the cheap, fearful, bureaucratic, anti-human, modern “requirement” that—as when we apply for jobs—a man be utterly SPOTLESS in all particulars, like these lifeless stick-figure white politicians. Not only is unrealistic, it is selects only, on the rare occasions it does find its angel, for absolutely the most boring type of man ... Usually with some species of country accent to which no one civilized should bear to listen. I think it’s better to lay down the ninny rules, that cruel pushy desire to make people conform to boring standards, and just hope even TWO FAMILIES coalesce on anti-modern principles. Sure, you can find those dudes with children and income, you can sit them down and call it a movement—but where would they really be headed? You’d have a higher daddy’s club, full of Paul Fromms and William Pierces. Instead of a sprawling non-movement online full of a few types, you’d have a constricted little gentleman’s round-table, tight as their assholes, full of precisely one type: and not one whit more would give a shit about them.

Real community, bro. Follow the Left exactly in the emphasis on community, sharing, work, naturalness, and fun; weed through people to cull the largest seed heads. Europe is wide open for this. A friend of mine turned me on to that industrial act Laibach—their music bores me but their figurative “NSK State” attracts more people than “PLE” ever has & will. Somehow white nationalism must grasp these finesses of the left, from the organic movement to art-house fashion fascism, and gently, unthreatening, bring them together. Music helps. White Nationalist music is mostly vulgarity of the lowest order. COPY THE LEFT: PLAY THE UKELELE, THE BANJO, LEARN SPANISH AND SING SWEETLY ... but with our message. People will accrue. The Orphic ruse never fails.


340

Posted by Captainchaos on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:16 | #

Fear of God would fit nicely in your set of requirements,

Fear of God is not sufficient.  White Christians fearing that God will punish them, both temporally and eternally, for thoughts and actions which are detrimental to their race would be of immense help.  In my opinion, there is enough of exhortations to ethnocentrism as relates to Jews in the Old Testament that, with sufficient emphasis on those elements of Scripture, White Christians could be convinced that if they did not follow those directives they could expect Godly punishment as their reward.

American White Christians are a demographic we absolutely cannot afford to alienate from our cause.  With them and them alone on our side we may not have enough to win, but without them on our side and conceivably against us we will surely lose.


341

Posted by uh on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:20 | #

Fear of God would fit nicely in your set of requirements, but I suspect you’d reject that necessity?

If Fear of Kwa isn’t enough, it’s already the wrong kind of people.


342

Posted by Captainchaos on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:40 | #

If Fear of Kwa isn’t enough, it’s already the wrong kind of people.

The wrong kind of people could potentially be converted to the right kind if they come to interpret all the multifarious detriments of Kwa as punishment from God for what amounts to race betrayal.  Sodom and Gomorrah degenerated as a prelude to their annihilation.


343

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:48 | #

“If Fear of Kwa isn’t enough…”

Fear of KWA? Fear? How about absolute revulsion?

More on this tomorrow.


344

Posted by uh on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:53 | #

The wrong kind of people could potentially be converted to the right kind if they come to interpret all the multifarious detriments of Kwa as punishment from God for what amounts to race betrayal.

If the only way they can come to race loyalty is by religion, no one should argue with that, just as GW baited Gorb elsewhere by asking if he’d approve of a Europe saved by atheists, but if the context is an intentional community—per GT—or “movement”, there has to be the same line drawn between “church and state” to avoid the retarding effects of belief and its need to debate with reality.


345

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 23:08 | #

If Fear of Kwa isn’t enough, it’s already the wrong kind of people.

The wrong kind of people could potentially be converted to the right kind if they come to interpret all the multifarious detriments of Kwa as punishment from God for what amounts to race betrayal.  Sodom and Gomorrah degenerated as a prelude to their annihilation.

WOW! Captainchaos nails it!


346

Posted by GT on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 23:17 | #

Uh,

Overall a good, fair response.

Useful link. I briefly argued for this sort of project some months ago and was ignored.

No…Really?  Surely you jest! wink

The blightwing is not interested in bottom-up movement/community-building - far too risky and too much physical work required.  The link is for you and a small handful of others inclined in that direction.  If interested, follow/emulate Mr. Factorefarm, but I suggest leaving the (non) movement out of it. 

A genuine top-down movement - bureaucratic by design - would institute the requirements I suggest.  Despite its preference for the top-down model, the (non) movement is unable to implement the requirements simply because, for its “leaders” in any case, the imperative is to survive and become the big fish in the little pond.  Such requirements are bad for the donations necessary to prevent these “leaders” from becoming a financial burden on grandma or getting evicted by the landlord.  Seriously.

That’s all I have to say about it.


347

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 23:18 | #

“Fear of KWA? Fear? How about absolute revulsion?”  (—Thorn)

Sign me up.


348

Posted by uh on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 23:21 | #

Well, laying the Christian thing aside, I’ve just “googled” Pioneer Little Europe for a refresher in bad ideas, and the first link is from Stormfroth, wherein:

Find a tract near enough to a small town or city where there is some industry and business establishments. Those who are able to build, can do the construction, again, leaving the money with your group. Maybe you will have a plumber, electricion, and so forth, in your little community. (You can even start your own banking system.)

1. Work with those in your group.

2. Purchase from them the goods they sell, that way, keeping the wealth within your circle. Start your own church with a minister who will be willing to go with you, and maybe a teacher or two, start your own home or church school.

What? WHAT?? Such rubbish. EVERY one of these little plans begins with: “Buy white.” The NSDAP didn’t win with “Kauf nicht bei Juden!”, it won with: WIR FORDERN ... Not that we’re in any position to fordern of course. Point is, PLE is conceptually backward, limited, parochial, “individualistic”. Target mercantilism is not even possible, forget revolutionary. You can buy from whites in many states, but none of them will like your reason for doing so: doesn’t sound like a Little Europe to me. But the very fact that PLE is an abstracted model of bygone European immigrant communities speaks to its backwardness and impossibility; almost any time an “essence” is distilled from historical example and prescribed for the present, one is in the presence of impotent idealism. Why don’t we just sever Bavaria from the Reich while we’re at it. Let one thousand flowers bloom.

Copy the living example: the Left with its communities, “green” houses, backwoods communes & “folk” festivals (ha!), and above all reclaimed urban “spaces”—“sustainable” experiments of every kind. Take WN away from the boneheads and the eggheads, in short. And sooner have Sunday school than SPOT BREATHALYZERS.


349

Posted by uh on Wed, 25 Aug 2010 23:28 | #

No…Really?  Surely you jest!

LOL.

The link is for you and a small handful of others inclined in that direction.  If interested, follow/emulate Mr. Factorefarm, but I suggest leaving the (non) movement out of it.

Of course. No one from here could be dragged into that.

A genuine top-down movement - bureaucratic by design - would institute the requirements I suggest.

I don’t disagree. But toward a real community, the value of those requirements breaks down, was all I meant; perhaps I shouldn’t have jumped from one to the other, as occurs in your post. Another workable model, on that score, would be Hindu or Pakistani family morals. There the wealth and the blood stay in a circle of careful selection, both directed to gaining social clout. But where to find the right people, for any purpose.

Such requirements are bad for the donations necessary to prevent these “leaders” from becoming a financial burden on grandma or getting evicted by the landlord.  Seriously.

Ach. You win there. Needless to say, I myself fail on all counts ...


350

Posted by GT on Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:27 | #

But toward a real community, the value of those requirements breaks down, was all I meant;

The requirements do break down.  I listed them merely for the benefit of the principals operating this website and the (non) movement in general, both of whom insanely insist upon top-down movement-building despite failure since 1945.  To a degree I sympathize with the bastards, but am quite prepared to watch them fail agai to reach the v-speed required for takeoff.

perhaps I shouldn’t have jumped from one to the other, as occurs in your post.

Sorry for the confusion.  The principals here know who I am and where I’m coming from.  You didn’t, apparently.


351

Posted by Leon Haller on Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:37 | #

Wow, this thread won’t die ...

American White Christians are a demographic we absolutely cannot afford to alienate from our cause.  With them and them alone on our side we may not have enough to win, but without them on our side and conceivably against us we will surely lose. Captainchaos

This statement is exactly right, at least for the American context. Anyone who disagrees is simply ignorant of the sociological situation in the US, or else very, very foolish.

This is partly why I have always opposed the National Alliance, and any embrasure of Nazism of any variety (I also oppose Nazism on moral principle, considering it an evil ideology, even though I strongly would have supported the US staying out of the European theater in WW2, and obviously believe that the Nazis were infinitely preferable from an Occidentalist (indeed, even Christian) perspective, to the Judeo-Bolsheviks running the Soviet Union). There will never be, indeed, cannot be (philosophically), any reconciliation between Christianity (in any of its major denominations) and Nazism. Even serious Nazis need to recognize that a future Nazism must not appear to be such, or it will have zero electoral traction.

But we don’t need Nazism to build our case for white preservation. We really could use a racially reformed Christianity on our side, however, and this even if all theistic claims are ultimately empirically false (something I do not believe). Christianity in the US is not going away, and where it does fade, the result, at least historically, seems to be ALWAYS greater racial egalitarianism, not less. I absolutely cannot account for this, it makes zero sense to me, but it should be noted as probably a fact of secularization.


352

Posted by John on Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:25 | #

Christianity in the US is not going away, and where it does fade, the result, at least historically, seems to be ALWAYS greater racial egalitarianism, not less. “I absolutely cannot account for this, it makes zero sense to me, but it should be noted as probably a fact of secularization. “

I don’t think you’re seeing a result but rather that there is a common cause for both. White lands were monoracial and remained so long before Jewsus was even a gleam in Yahweh’s eye.


353

Posted by Unfashionable Observations on Fri, 27 Aug 2010 00:35 | #

It just keeps getting better and better at OD. “Hunter” is now touting Nikki Haley and Marco Rubio as examples of how the Tea Party is “succeeding”.  “Wallace” gushes that Haley “was propelled to victory ... with a Sarah Palin endorsement and Tea Party support”.

Unlike faileocon “Hunter Wallace”, Patrick Cleburne has written good blog posts about Haley.



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