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Morgoth Anglin’ to be unassailable leader of The Right in The Altright Big Tent I’ve always seen Morgoth as a fellow traveler. There is ample proof of that in statements and gestures on my part. In fact, when he started a new blog, it was announced here at MR. I saw that it was a commendable effort in White nationalism. I did notice that some former MR people went there and that was fine with me. If people want to focus on different things and participate in a platform that has different rules then so be it. He has put-up and will continue to put-up some good articles. I also noticed that he gets quite a volume of comments. Fine. I didn’t spend much time there and commented there a grand total of once. Basically, I see MR’s platform as sound. Therefore, what other places (e.g. Morgoth’s) are doing is either going to reinforce our program or highlight our positive difference by contrast. Long story short, I didn’t bother much with Morgoth’s and didn’t concern myself with it. I would take a look there but not as regularly as other places. In the few times that I did go there recently, I faintly noticed that there seemed to be more of the Naziphile sorts filing-in; there’d always been a few, but there does seem a bit more of the Andrew Anglin type crowd, “it’s all a holohoax” sorts; and I recall Morgoth defending Anglin to some extent in the recent squabble with Alternative Right. These angles are a bit unfortunate but it didn’t seem to be a main thrust; and again, I see MR distinguishing itself from that. I quickly visited recently to look at some of the headlines. I did notice the 4chan meme, “I wish we lost.”...but did not stay long, perhaps that meme piqued my disinterest - I’m not interested in arguments of that sentiment, it turns me off and I left, without comment and without particular concern; no intention of saying anything. Kumiko called my attention to the fact that she’d entered a comment there (there, since MR and I are a bit more concerned with meta-politics than mainstream politics). So I was back there, wading through Hitler and Swastika avatars, fret about the persecution of holocaust deniers and I saw that obnoxious “pic of the week” sitting there again, with Morgoth’s email address placed proudly beneath. It also almost seemed as if he was trying to recruit Kumiko, so to speak. He “hoped that she would become a regular feature.” I suppose that I cannot blame him for trying, she is one of the best in the ethno-nationalist business. But that was still a bit of a funky thing to do. Having to endure these irritations while there, I made a comment about his pic of the week; a comment, that’s all; intended to go no further, but again, it was occasion for MR to distinguish itself for those who aren’t comfortable with such imagery, see it as unnecessary and divisive. Morgoth had a meltdown, started saying that he could not believe that I would say anything and how unreasonable that I was. The argument (in reverse chronology) that ensued is instructive if not entertaining:
DanielS, 28 Nov 2015, 0737 CET: Are you serious? I have absolutely nothing to apologize for. You should be the one to apologize if anyone. Saying (dishonestly) that I have had confrontations with a “long, long line of ‘nationalists” ...and that “you can’t remember who it was that I had confrontations with but it hardly matters.” ... it hardly matters? I have had confrontations with zero people for their “nationalism” - to the contrary; that, and depicting my reasons as emotional and erratic is dishonest - I have been consistent and with good reason. With regard to Milennial Woes, he came to MR to denounce me for criticizing his Jewish friend Ruth (a.k.a., “The Truth Will Live”), demanding that we take his link to MR down because I was critical of his Jewish friend’s insistence not only that Jews should be able to be a part of the White struggle (the alt right in particular - and that is when I began to seriously see the need to distance myself and anybody who cares about Whites from the altright) i.e., when people were saying that she and other Jews should not only be included, but should be able to define our terms for us! Nevertheless, we took down his link without ceremony or rancor and sent him on his judeophilic way - he is [there now at Morgoth’s], I suppose… DanielS, 27 Nov 2015, 11:14 CET: There is another important point with regard to what you call my “tantrums”...“all I seem to do” and my “bread and butter.” I have been clearing MR’s platform of Hitler, Jesus and Jewish people for what should be obvious reasons. And again, it has also been necessary to clear out right-wingishness in general - e.g., conspiracy theorists, Austrian school libertarians, those with a supremacist, imperialist, or overly scientistic bent. However, some people cannot accept that and have trolled at MR incessantly, trying to be provocative on those issues and force MR to accept them. Normally, I would simply send them to another blog if they don’t like our platform. In some instances, such as with Matt Parrott, there was no choice but to respond as he’d been invited for a debate by Kumiko. To say that’s “all I do”, or “all I want to do” is real bullshit. Rather, all the right-wing and its trolls have done under its rubric is troll MR - hence the necessity to deal with them and what you take as “all I do.” Its been a first priority to clear them away. Setting the proper platform first is necessary. But it is not all that I have done or all that I will do - to suggest that is bullshit.
DanielS, 27 Nov 2015, 09:19 CET: Listen Morgoth, this is not a “tantrum” (you might pander to an audience who thinks they can be “neutral” about Hitler) but I do not respect trying to make these issues seem as if they are in my head: its in clear policy at MR, that’s all.
Similar strategy, no great mystery. Hitler, 4chan, polchan etc.
I am familiar with the joke, don’t think its funny. That you have so many sympathizers there for that kind of thing indicates to me that it is not merely a joke, it is pandering as such. You put your email address right underneath it.
No, you should be asking yourself if trafficking in Hitler, swastikas etc is worth dividing Europeans against each other. There is nothing you’ve said of worth that cannot be said without it. You can gain audience by pandering to the Hitler-heads, but it won’t gain my respect. Do you remember when I put up this post of a comment you made, alerting us to Paul Weston’s stunt to get arrested for reciting Churchill? At the time we considered adding you here as a poster, but I was concerned that you were too soft on Jews… perhaps so, among other reasons, because you were behind Paul Weston and Liberty GB, who did not name the Jew and who were a bit of the anti-Jihad, Gates of Vienna school. I don’t know where you were exactly in your J awareness at that point, but you seem to be following a pattern of those who take a crash course over a few years and get inducted into the foibles of the right, presiding as misleader over its inherent instability. I liked your “blue smerfs” article among others. You write very well. The Breitbart article was good, written very well, but cutting and pasting others historical research, 4 chan memes and a few remarks, even if eloquent, does not render one infallible overnight. Oh sure, “I’m all emotional, it’s all psychological, in my head.” Cut that out Morgoth, you can have your right wing circle Jerk with Hitler-heads and Jesus Freaks there. There were important points made here in that regard and this was not “pissing in my corflakles” (typical Matt Parrottesque kind of remark), points made to TradYouth et al, and it is dishonest of you again to try to characterize it as such. I can show careful arguments point by point. These are not tantrums (as someone as disingenuous as Matt Parrott - whom you are probably referring to - tried to suggest, by trying to evoke such a response by trollng me); rather, there are clear rules here - one being that we don’t pander to people who idolize Hitler. You had your email under that picture to make a point, and I made a point that MR has a different position for those who might be put-off.
DanielS, 26 Nov 2015, 12:03 CET: Yes it was me and there is nothing “erratic about my behavior.” It is not “nationalists” that have confronted me, it is 1. People who perhaps think Hitler was one (a nationalist - he wasn’t, he was an imperialist, among other very negative things to European cooperation; nor did he represent White people). 2. People who insist upon imposing Christianity at MR. 3. People who insist upon including Jews among the White/European interest group. Those are the basics. But I will also reject ridiculously speculative theories (conspiracy or otherwise) on the one hand or scientism, if people get carried away with that, on the other. Though that’s probably too subtle a point for a right-wing blog (Morgoth’s). I am entirely consistent. It is disingenuous to say that I have been erratic and extremely disingenuous to say that it is “nationalists” that I have had confrontations with. A few weeks ago you seemed to be considering getting over this right wing thing (even thought about publishing an article of mine). Unfortunately, apparently you got talked out that, and you perhaps saw grand crowds beckoning by way of pandering to Hitler fetishists a la Anglin. Being “erratic” thus, is a projection of the consequence of your rightwingishness; you should consider getting over it rather than trying to make me seem “unstable” because I don’t appreciate Hitler. This pandering will bring you a popular bubble and it will pop when confronted with the reality that you currently deny. You can’t understand why anyone would find it offensive to wish that Hitler had been able to follow through on his plans? I know, I know it’s all a funny joke.
Comments:2
Posted by DanielS on Sat, 28 Nov 2015 18:37 | #
LOL. I don’t need to apologize, uKn_Leo. At Majorityrights, I posted a short comment which cut and paste the image that Morgoth had on his site and I added a caption in wry criticism. I did that as a minor protest and distinction from some of the currents that have emerged there…which I was only compelled to take note of just the other day, otherwise I would not have even been bothered. I intended to say no more about it, just made a wry comment, and if Morgoth had not said anything and not started mis-characterizing me and my editorial policy here, it would have blown-over without incident - him having his editorial policy and take there and we having our different policy and take here. In fact, I have not kept up with what he is saying about it over there now. Not really worried about it. Basic platform issues are important, but that is sorted-out enough. There are other important matters that need attention now.
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Posted by DanielS on Sun, 29 Nov 2015 02:28 | # One frigging comment disparaging of his joke and he is dismayed, demands an apology, etc. I imagine that he is going to need thicker skin in this battle ahead. 4
Posted by DanielS on Sun, 29 Nov 2015 04:30 | # Comments and responses from Morgoth’s:
He phrased it cleverly, saying that declining to use such imagery “treats East Europeans as if” they are semi-retarded. In other words, if they do object they are thick-headed, as there could be no good reason to object. It amounts to the same thing.
Christianity, Nazism and “the Fuehrer” are a part of your freedom of speech [t]here at Morgoth’s. I exercised my free speech at Majorityrights; I made ONE wry comment noting that image (as a short hand jab at the Naziphiles [t]here) and the response from [that] camp was as if I had insulted god. I did not know the people [T]HERE were so thin skinned. Get over it. Furthermore, Hitler was NOT right and he lost because of it, just get over that too. 5
Posted by It's still history dude on Sun, 29 Nov 2015 06:02 | #
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Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 29 Nov 2015 16:45 | # No sincere English nationalist will find his people a truthful, self-expressive politics in the bastard child of Italian fascism and Judaism. The very idea is a shocking affront to our national psychology. Active interest in it requires the denial of one’s masculinity and a girl-like dreaming after an absurdly self-regarding, self-mutilating model of male behaviour and belief. Really, how does one get it through to these lost souls that the English are not there! Morgoth is a good man, but if he is entertaining even the possibility that National Socialism shines a lantern for English nationalism he is in serious error. He needs to look into his heart to understand what it is I am saying. 7
Posted by Morgoth on Sun, 29 Nov 2015 18:26 | # @GW All you have to do is look at my blog and decide yourself whether I have become a Nazi or whether I’m pulling the venom and crippling effects of the Nazi myth to mentally free our people in what little way I can. All I did was post a satirical meme in relation to a new TV show and this backstabbing shit stirring cunt you have allowed to run riot on this blog has whipped it up into a great soap opera. 8
Posted by Captainchaos on Sun, 29 Nov 2015 18:43 | # Morgoth, let’s assume you are a fanboy of certain aspects of National Socialism. Do you think it is accurate to say that Gay Nazis have therefore taken possession of your balls? 9
Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 29 Nov 2015 19:29 | # Morgoth, there is nothing to pull apart but the very tired, easily questioned and falsified illusions of others. These people are a herd, or they are the herders. The herd, which is weak and suggestible, obeys the moral dictates of the herders. Indeed, it extravagantly signals its obedience; while the herders, who are pathological, crack their whips via the act of Freudian projection. This is the full human worth of anti-racism. It’s nothing more than an artificial moral panic on one side and psychological violence on the other. Naturally, neither herd nor herder knows anything of English natural right and ethnic interest. We are entirely free of the stain upon our character which they wish to impute. There is nothing to defend. There is, of course, something to attack. 10
Posted by Morgoth on Sun, 29 Nov 2015 20:22 | # And attack it I do, fervently, what comes after that and what replaces the present order does not at present interest me. What I’m doing is essentially what we did for years at the DT but writ large and with brutal humour and forthrightness. We attack movies and adverts, pop songs and, naturally, Jews. It’s counter cultural and it’s spreading like wild fire. My blog does not contain any Nationalist, let alone National Socialist, symbolism because I find it cliched. I want our ideas to be like a thick mist for our enemies in that they are engulfed by them but cannot get a grip on them. Now, one last time, the picture which offended DanielS came out of a new TV show which is based on the Philip K Dick novel on a Nazified America, on previewing the trailer many white Americans remarked that America actually looked quite nice that way and the trailer was pulled. Hence the picture and meme ‘‘I wish we lost’’ and because of that I’ve had days of drama, just look at this post! The problem I see here is that you wish to change the metapolitical discourse while remaining aloof from the trends and cultural milieu of the day. The more philosophically inclined have no real control over where this going, hence the paranoia over Nazism becoming ‘‘cool’’ and ‘‘edgy’’ within the younger elements, I get that and I’d be more than happy to help publicize divergent concepts. But not while taking a knife in the back. 11
Posted by DanielS on Sun, 29 Nov 2015 21:15 | #
Ridiculous. You keep saying that’s all you did. Well, even in posting the satirical meme (let me use your words) prominently in the upper right of your site and above your name, as “picture of the week”, you did a lot more than I did. All I did was post a comment that merely stated what it was - Morgoth’s picture of the week. I did not prominently display the image nor the “satirical remark” that I placed beneath it. They were within comment. It is my free speech, made here, at this site, not at yours, and it was a significant point to make; a point that I wanted to make especially because that was not ‘all that you were doing’ over there, as you say. As you see by Anglia of England et al., you are entertaining people who are roused and serious about this stuff; who are not treating it as a joke. There is an aspect of pandering whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Even so, if you had said nothing about it and not stirred things up, it could have blown over without event. “All you did was post a satirical picture of the week”, well all I did was make a satirical comment about it - here, at Majorityrights, among passing comments. ... I did not demand apologies, call for your resignation, etc etc, tell you how to conduct your site, accuse you of betraying nationalism, characterize you by saying this or that was ‘all you did’, etc, as you did of me. Nor was the jab directed at you particularly but at that regime’s friend / enemy distinctions.
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Posted by Kumiko Oumae on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 10:24 | # I should say just for general knowledge if anyone is wondering, that when I asked DanielS and Morgoth to ‘talk this out’ because ‘I would be a bad mediator’ (I would be a bad mediator for reasons which might be obvious), I didn’t anticipate that it would turn into an actual fight between them directly. I was under the impression that there was no particular problems between the two, so I was as surprised as anyone that it ended up like this. From my perspective, I went away and came back, and suddenly it was like this. So for the record: It wasn’t a case of me deliberately fomenting it. 13
Posted by DanielS on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 18:00 | # Nobody that I know of is accusing you of fomenting a fight, Kumiko. Your impression was correct to that point in time - there were no particular problems between Morgoth and I - at least not that I was aware-of up until then. To be honest with you, I still do not see what transpired as “a fight” ... but rather a disagreement; an important one, but one about which I am not particularly concerned. Because dealing with it is not theoretically challenging. Upon the occasion to look at the site and its threads a little more carefully, I saw some things there that I wanted, needed, in fact, to distinguish Majorityrights from and made the comment. Maybe Morgoth thought that I was not supposed to make a critical comment at Majorityrights in regard to things that he and his commenters might say or show at his blog - viz. I made a comment regarding where specifically Nazi Germany drew its friend enemy lines (I must clarify for your sake since, as you say, you “endorse the attempt to create a Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere during the Second World War”, that my remark really had nothing to do with the Axis as a whole, or Japan then, nor any country now; it had to do with where Nazi Germany—specifically that country’s regime—drew friend enemy distinctions among Europeans); but he took issue not only with my making a passing comment here about that, but started taking issues with me - inarticulate and inaccurate though his issues were, it became necessary for me to respond. There was an errant presumtion that the best way to handle this was for him and I to discuss it with one another. Our working hypotheses in that regard, and who these hypotheses cater-to, are incommensurate. To try to overcome the complexity of this difference in direct conversations would have been too laborious, too time consuming, not likely to succeed and merely repeating things that have been discussed too much here already. To discuss it would have meant having to engage him and an entourage of his on baroque issues regarding the Nazi regime, which we’ve already dealt with here, ad nauseam; I’ve made the points that I need to make on the matter (1. to say Nazis represented Whites, or all Whites, is an overstated premise; 2. Offering a choice between Hitler or Jews is a false either /or) and the idea of having to argue with people who want to rehabilitate Hitler and his plans, dispute the H, is an unnecessary complexity and waste of time at this point. More, we are dealing with a manichean audience over there - i.e., I was not going to resolve the issue with them, they were going to continually change and argue to keep the fight going. I am not going to resolve these issues with them. There is a substantial motivation among some there to keep that fight going. They will continue in their unanimity, “Hitler was never wrong about anything; it was everyone else’s fault”* I.e., they will lie and not be persuaded. Thus, there is no point in trying to talk to them. It is better to leave them there and discuss matters here, where people are not determined to take the angle that Hitler needs to be redeemed and was really, perfectly reasonable. * Morgoth, for one, believes it is necessary to “demythologize” Hitler, etc. That is his hypothesis and it presumes that everyone is an idiot, has illusions about Hitler and Jews, and should be particularly interested in redeeming Hitler’s name. This Anglia guy, for example, acts like I was born yesterday; and I don’t relish the idea of repeating everything I’ve said on this issue already in order to deal with this kid, who is probably just a troll. Unfortunate though I believe his hypothesis is, Morgoth has his hypothesis there. MR has another hypothesis here.
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Posted by Lurker (Copyright101) on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 18:40 | # This has got blown totally out of proportion. 15
Posted by DanielS on Mon, 30 Nov 2015 18:44 | # So far as I can tell, I’m done with the issue and moving on. To be honest with you, I am not even interested in what is happening at Morgoth’s. I would have been content to leave the matter after my comment #11 above, but I needed to respond to Kumiko. Post a comment:
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Anglia Of England said: Christianity, National Socialism, the Fuehrer, it is part of our freedom of speech. Furthermore, Hitler was right. Just get over it.
Daniel Sienkiewicz said to Anglia Of England:
Posted by uKn_Leo on Sat, 28 Nov 2015 17:50 | #
When are you going to apologise to Morgoth, Dan?