Posted by john on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:41 | #

A non-issue. I,m surprised it made the news.

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:20 | #

Not at all a non-issue, John.  This is the inevitable denouement of cultish irresponsibility in the nationalist movement, when that movement is faced with real electoral considerations.  It can simply no longer afford the excesses of the self-indulgent.

The future wave of the BNP is Danny Lake’s YBNP.  But today he, too, has been sacked for this.

There is a critical mass among the dissidents.  They will not simply melt away.  Either the Party under Griffin will rid itself of Collett and Co, or Griffin will resign and a new leadership election will take place, or - as of this moment - he will hang on with Collett (but why?) and there’ll be a split in the movement.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:24 | #

I very much like the revamped web-site.  It’s an improvement:  while remaining extremely informative it presents a “look” or “feel” that is both friendly/welcoming and firmly serious at the same time (and even somewhat intellectual, if “intellectual” can be captured in a site’s “look”).  And they’ve got all the most important “basics” right at the browser’s fingertips:  “Policies,” “Organization,” “Donate,” and so on, above, not to mention the handy friendly-looking-yet-serious-looking sub-headings in the right-hand margin (browser-convenient columnists displayed grouped together, timely subjects of interest, etc.).  The overall layout, the color-scheme utilizing somewhat subdued, “calm” tones projecting, if anything, confidence and strength, the display of photos across the top, the BNP-union-jack logo which I love, all make for a first-rate layout in my book.  To whomever is responsible:  very good, very professional job!

Posted by Frank McGuckin on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:45 | #

GuessedWorker

Even if the BNP came to power, would it have the balls to throw the muslims, jamiacans and hindus out of Britain. What would be the consequences of not doing this? Very likely a racial/national balkanization of Braitain. How long would ordinary Englishman tolerate this state of affairs. Maybe the best solution is to encourage chaos. Let the ordinary Brits take things into their own hands. If India and Pakistan don’t like it, threaten to nuke them.

Did Rock and Roll contribute to the effeminization of the Britisn male? Maybe this is why their fighting spirit has been been extinguished. God how I hate The Stones, Led Zepplin , the Beattles and the Who. Why isn’t pedaphile Pete Townsend in jail. Terrible role models for young British males.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:49 | #

So glad to see that shooting from the hip isn’t your style at all, Frank.  That was a very thoughtful post from the first to last sentence.  Very.

Posted by Scipio Americanus on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:54 | #

Guessedworker,

What seems to be the primary rift within the BNP?  Is it over ideological differences, allegations of misconduct, or concerns regarding the quality of leadership?  It strikes me as heavy-handed for the BNP to set up an intelligence unit to spy on its own members, don’t you think?  What kind of message does that send to its members and the public at large?  Feel free to shed some light on this issue.

Scipio Americanus

Posted by Scipio Americanus on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:06 | #

“So glad to see that shooting from the hip isn’t your style at all, Frank.” (Fred Scrooby)

Hey Fred, you have to like Frank’s no-nonsense approach to the whole mess.  LOL!  The “straight skinny” is refreshing from time to time, don’t ya’ think?

Scipio Americanus

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:25 | #

Scipio,

It’s the quality of leadership.  That comprehensively includes Nick Griffin.  I’m now wondering whether, as a man who advanced himself through regicide (the removal of John Tyndall) on the pretext of making the party electable, Griffin has, in fact, simply installed himself as King and, like all successful regicides, permits about him only the least threatening “ministers of the crown”.

That would explain why these five individuals (the allegedly incompetent - ie, chavvish - Mark Collett, Dave Harnum and John Walker + the veteran Arthur Kemp and the South African Gestapo-leader Lance Stewart) are a protected species.  Of course, there are other, less edifying explanations favoured by the rebels, and on which I am in no position to comment.

As for ideology in the BNP, such as it is, it is all Nick Griffin’s and no one else’s.  That is why he remains indispensable, despite this mess.  Post Jonathan Bowden, everybody bar Kemp appears to be a local activist.  Young Danny Lake has the potential to think (via, I suspect, a poly-cum-university education).  The rest, rebels included, operate at the level of bopping - and being bopped by - Labour councillors.

Of ideas, there is no trace.  But without ideas what is politics?

Frank,

Coming to power is not the same as being in power.  Read any election manifesto and compare it with the post-election reality.  I don’t doubt that a BNP government would do all in its power to disaccomodate our enriching new countrymen, and amen to that.

Posted by Scipio Americanus on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:23 | #

Thank you, Guessedworker. I suspected that to be the case but wanted to hear it from someone better informed.  The removal of John Tyndall on the grounds of making the BNP “electable” was something I was not aware of and strikes me as a complete compromise on the very principle the BNP was founded to achieve. The rest speaks for itself.  Mark 8:36—“For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”

Below is an essay taken from an American blogger by the name of D.E. Thomas from his blog, Cambria Will Not Yield.  It’s a wonderful site and one I recommend.

http://cambriawillnotyield.blogspot.com/

Scipio Americanus

JOHN TYNDALL:  LEST WE FORGET

In the fall of ‘05 I wrote a brief R.I.P. for that brave heart of Britain, Mr. John Tyndall. I never met the man personally, but I miss him a great deal. Like Samuel Francis, Mr. Tyndall fought the good fight and suffered much at the hands of liberal and “conservative” one-world globalists. Here, I would like to discuss three different issues that he discussed in his publication, The Spearhead, shortly before his death.

1) The issue of repatriation: should the British National Party hold to its policy of expelling all non-whites from Britain?

It was Mr. Tyndall’s position, which I agree with, that the BNP should stick to its ‘no compromise’ position and continue to campaign for the expulsion of all non-whites from Britain. Some young upstarts in the party thought the party should accept the non-whites already in Britain, even allowing them into the BNP, and then campaign on the new policy that no more non-whites be permitted in Britain. They advanced this policy because they thought it was more practical and not because they thought Tyndall’s goals were not desirable.

Tyndall’s response was that you always should campaign for what you deem as right, being fully aware of its impossibility for the present, because a victory in which you do not achieve your goal is not a victory. I would add that if the British people were brought to a mindset where they could see the wisdom of allowing only whites to come into Britain then they could be just as easily persuaded to gradually relocate all the non-whites. (An exchange with South Africa: their whites for the British blacks would be one possibility.)

2) It is not because of a lack of moderation on the part of its advocates that the white cause is losing in Britain and America.

Mr. Tyndall made this point in a speech he gave during his last visit to the United States. In thousands of talks throughout Britain he found that white Britons were in sympathy with his cause. But they would not support his party. Why? Because, Mr. Tyndall pointed out, his party had no power. People were afraid of losing jobs or being imprisoned for support of the white cause. This is why, Mr. Tyndall concluded, it was necessary for white nationalists to achieve power, and it is why he continued to support the BNP. Unfortunately Mr. Tyndall is right about that. Human beings in the aggregate, but not in every particular, will always go with the powerful rather than the principled. Which brings us to the third issue.

3) Mr. Tyndall had a running debate with an older, counterrevolutionary gentleman. The counterrevolutionary thought parliamentary democracy was over and that white Britons should develop an elite band of white counterrevolutionaries and take over Britain.

Tyndall’s response was that there was no support for such a movement and that British nationalists should continue to work for electoral victories. Both the counterrevolutionary gentleman and Mr. Tyndall agreed on the desirability of a white Britain, they just disagreed on the means of achieving it. And I should also note that Mr. Tyndall did not oppose a counterrevolution, like so many American conservatives do, because he thought democracy was sacred or that violent counter-revolution was bad. He opposed it because he thought a white Britain could be brought about electorally and that it could not be brought about by counterrevolution.

On this issue, I both agree and disagree with Mr. Tyndall. On the one hand, it is true that there is no support for a counterrevolution in Britain, but it is equally true that the BNP has had very little success. They win a local election every once in awhile and the liberals and the conservatives get upset, but they never make the sweeping gains necessary to actually have an impact on national policy. And as the country goes increasingly nonwhite, the chances for white victories in elections have become even more remote. I think white British nationalists should continue to run for office, but they should also start developing a counterrevolutionary movement. There is a time for extreme measures. And if the existing British government does not halt the tide of color, and it certainly appears they will not, then white Britons should prepare extreme measures to deal with the tide of color. It is the most serious invasion they will ever face. When the Saxons supplanted the Welsh, it was a tragedy because the Welsh culture was Christian and the Saxon culture was not. But over time, the Saxons adopted Christianity and formed a Christian culture. They were the superior culture when the largely pagan, partly Christian Normans invaded. And over time the Saxon culture Christianized the Normans. But it will not be thus when the people of color complete their invasion. Only the white European adopts, if he sees it as superior to his own, the religion of the conquered. The nations of color have never adopted the religion of a conquered people. They respect only strength, and a conquered people’s religion is seen as weak.

There is such strength in the British people; maybe at the last trump, when the invasion seems almost complete, they will fight for God, kith and kin, and country.

I think the same principles that apply to Britain also apply to the United States. We, after all, are an extension of white Britain. It’s difficult to say which country is in a more deplorable state. The similarities are striking. Both countries face a tide of color that their white governments are unwilling to stop. There seem to be greater pockets of resistance in Britain than in the U. S., but neither country seems to have much of a resistance movement. There also seems to be more of an absolute, unshakable, messianic belief in democracy in this country than in Britain. One wishes that the warning of T. S. Eliot would have been heeded – “The term, democracy, as I have said again and again, does not contain enough positive content to stand alone against the forces you dislike – it can easily be transformed by them. If you will not have God (and he is a jealous God), you should pay your respects to Hitler and Stalin.”

When the colored tide becomes overwhelming, there will probably be an upsurge of white nationalism in the European people. It will be too late at that point to save America or Europe, but it could be the start of a reclamation effort and a discovery of the roots of the only true civilization the world has ever known.

England’s Answer

Truly ye come of The Blood; slower to bless than to ban,
Little used to lie down at the bidding of any man.
Flesh of the flesh that I bred, bone of the bone that I bare;
Stark as your sons shall be – stern as your fathers were.
Deeper than speech our love, stronger than life our tether,
But we do not fall on the neck nor kiss when we come together.
My arm is nothing weak, my strength is not gone by;
Sons, I have borne many sons, but my dugs are not dry.
Look, I have made ye a place and opened wide the doors,
That ye may talk together, your Barons and Councillors –
Wards of the Outer March, Lords of the Lower Seas,
Ay, talk to your gray mother that bore you on her knees! –
That ye may talk together, brother to brother’s face –
Thus for the good of your peoples – thus for the Pride of the Race.
Also, we will make promise. So long as The Blood endures,
I shall know that your good is mine: ye shall feel that my strength is yours:
In the day of Armageddon, at the last great fight of all,
That Our House stand together and the pillars do not fall.
Draw now the threefold knot firm on the ninefold bands,
And the Law that ye make shall be law after the rule of your lands.
This for the waxen Heath, and that for the Wattle-bloom,
This for the Maple-leaf, and that for the Southern Broom.
The Law that ye make shall be law and I do not press my will,
Because ye are Sons of The Blood and call me Mother still.
Now must ye speak to your kinsmen and they must speak to you,
After the use of the English, in straight-flung words and few.
Go to your work and be strong, halting not in your ways,
Balking the end half-won for an instant dole of praise.
Stand to your work and be wise – certain of sword and pen,
Who are neither children nor Gods, but men in a world of men!

—Rudyard Kipling

http://cambriawillnotyield.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html

Posted by Gramma Jones on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:17 | #

“To whomever is responsible…”

No, it’s “To whoever is responsible…” Whoever is the subject of the phrase “whoever is responsible”, which is governed as a whole by to. Compare: “To whomever the BNP used: very good, very professional job!”

http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/whoever.asp

Posted by Frank McGuckin on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:29 | #

Which nation will blow first Britain or America? There is a hell of a lot less space in Britain than in America. In America, the ugly red clay Piedmont region of Charlotte is being used as a safety valve. I’m going there in a few weeks. It is quite shocking to see the explosive growth. New Mcmansions and shopping malls just sprout out of the ugly red Peidmont clay with each passing day. How long would post -1965 legal immigration have lasted if the safety valve had been closed back in 1980. Highly likely that post 1965 legal immigration would have been shut down by now-completely. White -Americans would give not a bleat of lip service to the nonesense about the blessings of diversity. It would have been quite brutal along the following lines:Screw you Sandeep, Han and Mohammed. Game over,,Git the F ... out.

I sincerely believe that Britain and America are in the countdown stage before an extremely intolerant future.

Here is the crucial point:the managers of both societies are at their core hedonist. Maimize profit and pleasure as fast as possible. They have not laid the basis for long term stability. They just don’t operate this way. It is the nature of the beast. They have been very lucky up to this point.

A few weeks back walked past a bookstore where the well known hedonist and all around cockroach Bill Clinton was signing books. Didn’t see any pretty young women standing on line. Mostly mishappen women in their forties.  One of these woman brought her “daughter” who had a problem with facial hair.

It would be nice to have him back in the White House:worse is better

Don’t get any of that ugly red Piedmont clay on your clothing.

Posted by skeptical on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:50 | #

Frank,

White -Americans would give not a bleat of lip service to the nonesense about the blessings of diversity. It would have been quite brutal along the following lines:Screw you Sandeep, Han and Mohammed. Game over,,Git the F ... out.

You might want to consider moving out to Oklahoma.  We’re having a huge anti-immigration, restrictionist, anti-Mexican revival out here.  As one of our local Tulsa activists put it, “I’ll be damned if Mexico moves here without me saying something about it”.

Our state government passed HB1804 (constructed with the help of FAIR) and the very same state legislator who crafted that piece of legislation is trying to construct “the son of HB1804”.

White Okies know what’s coming down the pike since many of us have ties to Texas.  You’d fit right in out here. 

Posted by calvin on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:28 | #

The bottom line is that Griffin is by far the BNP’s bigest asset. Griffin is capable of handling the media and of speaking lucidly on the metapoliticalaspects of right-wing populism in a way that none of the expellees is. Until a better performer comes along junior officials should simply toe the line. Sensible people don’t become embroiled in a power struggle before there is any power to struggle over. I don’t think that this purge makes Griffin look too good though, it just looks like he’s gotten carried away with the fact that he has some SA intelligence muscle onboard.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:10 | #

Thanks for the correction, Gramma.

Posted by Richard Clement on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:18 | #

This is an extraordinary turn of events. One has to question the BNP’s decision to post details of this grubby business on its website. Very silly. Having read Danny Lake’s comments, I have to say that I perfectly understand the odium in which Mark Collett is held. Nobody, however sympathetic they may be to the nationalist cause, can deny that the television documentary “Young, Nazi, and Proud” exposed Mark Collett as a complete buffoon. He is probably the single biggest reason why I have not joined the BNP. I vote BNP, I support the BNP, but that’s as far as it goes.

Collett seems unable to accept the fact that that programme utterly blasted any possibilty of him ever being talen seriously as a politician. If he had any integrity or honour he would have accepted that his idiotic performance was one of the most toe-curlingly embarrassing spectacles ever seen on British TV and disappear into even greater obscurity. The man is an idiot; what more is there to say?

I read a Sean Gabb essay some time ago in which he said “[t]here are excellent reasons to believe it [the BNP] is a creature of the security services. I cannot—or will not —give my reasons. But I have no doubt that most of those prominent within the BNP are controlled by the security services.” The very fact that Collett has continued to occupy a prominent position within the BNP since that documentary suggests that Gabb may have a point. Griffin has made great play of the way in which he has supposedly brought about a positive change in the public’s percepption of the BNP. He harps on and on about the hard work that this has entailed. Why risk that hard work being undone by Collett’s continued presence? He should have been immediately sacked.

One more thing. Some time ago BNPtv produced an inane skit in which Griffin got “browned-up” an impersonated a money-grubbing Asian spiv type. He even put on a comical P**i accent. What party leader in his right mind would allow himself to be filmed in such an attitude and have it posted on his party’s website? No doubt Griffo would simply dismiss it as “knock about stuff” intended to show his humourous side. I wonder if it wasn’t done with the explicit intention of keeping the BNP in the political wilderness. There has been a lot of stuff posted on their website that has had me shaking my head, but that video took the cake.

The BNP is a very, very strange organisation. Is it a tool of the security services? I regret to say, “yes, most probably”.

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:04 | #

Richard,

If a renewed party or something akin arose out of the rebellion of “honest party workers”, as Sadie Graham and the others profess to be, it may do little or no long-term political harm.  It’s rather advantageous for a political party to look like the voters it is trying to attract.

Whether, in the longer term, personal integrity and the horrors of enrichment would be enough to deliver the native peoples of these islands from harm is another matter.  As Calvin intimates, the politics of the pavement isn’t really politics at all.  It’s just struggle.

As things stand, the party strugglers now have to mull over whether they are loyal to Nick Griffin + Collett & Co, or whether that’s out of the question and, regardless of the risks of walking away from Griffin’s leadership, something new must be tried.

Positions are hardening.  If I was a gambling man, I’d say the outcome is more likely to be a split in the party than the resistance simply melting away.

Posted by john on Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:57 | #

It’s easy to read too much into the recent BNP expulsions. It’s just a few uppity, disloyal, self-rightious minions. The party will be stronger without them.

Posted by M McGregor on Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:46 | #

“The BNP is tearing itself apart”, is it ? By expelling two members who, whatever their motive, were attempting to disrupt their own Party ? Seems more like prompt & effective action to me.

That Party has in the past already had to deal with the occasional person for whom self interest is more important than the cause he or she claims to espouse, as well as attempted sabotage by media and hard-left ‘plants’, and none have done any serious or lasting harm.

There may indeed be a few more left to weed out, and no doubt this sort of thing will occur again in the future; but I think we will see in next year’s elections that the BNP’s momentum has been unaffected.

Posted by Riley DeWiley on Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:07 | #

“This is an extraordinary turn of events. One has to question the BNP’s decision to post details of this grubby business on its website. Very silly.”

Indeed. Things like this are best handled quietly.

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:53 | #

John and M McGregor,

The choice is between loyalty to the Party/Griffin and moral integrity.  If the ultimate consideration is the salvation of our people, the question is: Will that salvation be secured by - will the people follow - a Party without moral integrity?  If the answer to that is “No”, the next question is: What political vehicle will serve that end?  A BNP shorn of its moral deficit, or another party entirely?

These are the questions loyalists such as yourselves must answer, as much as the dissidents.  Let’s see you think through the consequences of your loyalty.

Posted by Scipio Americanus on Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:13 | #

“I sincerely believe that Britain and America are in the countdown stage before an extremely intolerant future…Here is the crucial point: the managers of both societies are at their core hedonist. Maximize profit and pleasure as fast as possible. They have not laid the basis for long term stability. They just don’t operate this way. It is the nature of the beast. They have been very lucky up to this point…worse is better.” (Frank McGuckin)

“Worse is better.”  How about saying it this way: BAD. IT’S THE NEW GOOD! 

Indeed, both countries are in the countdown stage. Many Americans are starting to wake up to this fact although too slowly to effectively reverse course at this stage in the game via the election process.  I can’t speak for Britons.  There really is no way to reconcile a multiracial/multicultural society with long term stability of a nation as ALL history has aptly demonstrated—it really is the nature of the beast and our enemies know it. 

The United States’ vastness and size has made our situation more difficult in that white Americans have been able to relocate to different areas when the non-white population has become a problem.  It’s known as “white flight” and it’s been taking place since WW II first introduced large numbers of blacks into our cites. 

Consider the city of Detroit, which was beautiful and wealthy in 1930 when white Americans constituted 90% of the population.  Today, Detroit in nearly 90% black and a city in ruin with the highest murder rate in the United States.  For a visual testament to this fact, I urge everyone to visit the FABULOUS RUINS OF DETROIT:  http://detroityes.com/home.htm  This site is a real eye opener for those who still have their eyes shut! 

Demographically speaking,  Britain and the rest of Europe still have time to fix things via the election process if there still exists the will to do so.  That is no longer the case in the United States due to the 1965 Immigration Act which opened the United States to the Third World hordes.  At the time, the numbers were capped at 200,000 per year, but this has now grown to 1,000,000 per year, not including the tens of millions of illegal alens who are swarming about our land. 

It is my sincere hope that the BNP and other nationalist parties throughout Europe will be able to achieve success via the ballot box and avoid what we Americans will be forced to do using other means in the not too distant future.  The clock is ticking and time is running out. 

Scipio Americanus

Posted by Tommy G on Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:07 | #

“For a visual testament to this fact, I urge everyone to visit the FABULOUS RUINS OF DETROIT:  http://detroityes.com/home.htm This site is a real eye opener for those who still have their eyes shut! “

I grew up in Detroit and currently work there. Although the FABULOUS RUINS OF DETROIT are an eye opener, they only depict the tip of the iceberg—that being the industrial and commercial buildings that went to ruin. If you really want to get the FULL flavor of what blacks are capable of doing to a city, you have to venture into Detroit’s residential neighborhoods…but NEVER go there with a white female or at night!

Posted by Tommy G on Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:45 | #

“Did Rock and Roll contribute to the effeminization of the Britisn male? Maybe this is why their fighting spirit has been been extinguished. God how I hate The Stones, Led Zepplin , the Beattles and the Who. Why isn’t pedaphile Pete Townsend in jail. Terrible role models for young British males.”—Frank McGuckin

There are quite a few macho British bands that don’t fit the effeminate caricature of Jagger, Lennon, Bowie, and Page, etc…

Example:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1546188663

Posted by danielj on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:30 | #

Not to mention Cocksparrer and The Business!

Posted by calvin on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:46 | #

At this stage of the game we are not voting for anything, we are voting against the existing political elite. You don’t need a choice when you are voting in defiance, you need a solid front. What should be uppermost in the minds of the BNP rebels is not their personal scruples, but how they can best serve the cause.  When you only have one wheel to put your shoulder to, you just get in and shove; you don’t start complaining that a few of the spokes are out of line. I’m quite sure that Collet is a vainglorious little twat, but sadly he’s attatched to Griffin like a barnacle and Griffin is the best we have at the moment. Divided we fall. I see all of the more intelligent patriots standing aloof from the BNP on the basis that it is a party of the underclass when all that is required to transform it from this status is their active participation. Why can’t the BNP become the party of choice for some of the people who post here? A party is the sum of its constituent parts. The BNP will never gain intellectual respectability without the participation of intelligent people.

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:39 | #

Calvin,

I’m not entirely convinced that it’s the prospect (or only the prospect) of helping the white working-class that prevents able and intelligent people from becoming involved. How about putting it this way round:-

Yes, Griffin is the most talented of the public communicators on the scene.  Yes, he has about him underclass types who are a large part of the reason intelligent people won’t get involved.  Otherwise, concluding that, indeed, “when you only have one wheel to put your shoulder to, you just get in and shove”, such people could actually join the party and lend it the required respectability for a breakthrough nationally at the ballot box.

The EnoughIsEnough affair demonstrates that nationalism is at the crossroads.  It has only got this far by leaving behind the image - and many of the actors - of its hard-core past.  However, the remaining actors don’t want to include themselves in the cut.  They think that the godawfulness of diversity will deliver the white electorate to them without such a sacrifice.  But they are what they are and, with them, things just don’t happen in a respectable way.  Hence the lies, the snooping, the burglary, the theft, the censorship.

I can’t see yet which side will win out in this death-struggle.  But it is becoming clear that the dissidents’ price for peace is higher than just Collett, Harnam and Walker.  Griffin himself, Darby, Barnes, and maybe Wingfield, among others, will have to go if the party is to remain united, with a functioning activist base.

Posted by Ambleslide on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:07 | #

If Griffin and co. really have tapped people’s phones they ought to be prosecuted. That one question - did they or didn’t they tap phones - is the main issue for me. And until the outcasts seek a prosecution, I’ll assume G and co. didn’t, and think that Griffin’s judgement on Collett is less ‘prejudicial’ than their unsubstantiated and public claim of phone-tapping.

If there were a no-loose way for an innocent Griffin to challenge a baseless accusation of phone-tapping that would carry again, and inaction would put NG in the frame, but I’m not sure there is.

For me, the ball, and the burden is in the outcast’s court.

It has previously been tendered that this kind of barny is a universal ritual for nationalists/racialists, and looky here:- Fade the Butcher has once again drawn suspicion and calumny upon his webbed-fingers:

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32797&page=5

Il Ragno, formerly almost of MR says: “All I know is one thing. The day Fade leaves the Internet for even six months means nobody will be hacked, crashed or infiltrated for six months minimum. If you choose to believe he’s perfectly innocent here, it’s still evident he’s a Jonah of near-biblical proportions; bad luck and disaster always following hard on his heels”.

The ‘Scimitar’ you welcome to MR I welcome seeing here too. But there must be a reason that he’s persona non grata at every other Racialist/Nationalist forum on the web from Stirpes to Stormfront to Original Dissent and that his own forums (phora-civicplatform-occ-diss) and their extensive archives have so often (always) been vanished?

Simply to say, I wouldn’t advise spending hours in your week or month composing arguments and ideas and posting to any blog/forum/website he owns/moderates, and history would suggest it’s foolish. Let him post here - or anywhere - if he’s genuine.

For those who haven’t had the pleasure, Il Ragno wisely backed up his own posts to the (latest) Phora and in the humanitarian cause collected some of his most racist, anti-semitic, politically incorrect diatribes into a thread found here: http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4743

What a pity IR felt that GW’s late circumspection on the JQ didn’t suit.

Things changed here, can’t The Spider be interested in even a commentating role GW? A good few would log-on just to read the latest from IR.

Posted by Ambleslide on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:30 | #

Well-informed Jews pretending to be concerned with negro interests say:

http://www.blink.org.uk/pdescription.asp?key=16086&grp=66&cat=228

Officers of the BNP were recently issued with laptops so that they could conduct their business wherever they happened to be (alright for some, isn’t it). One of the facilities the officers have been encouraged to use is Skype, which enables those with an internet connection to converse with each other over broadband for free, either one to one or via a conference call - thus avoiding the usual telephone system and any possibility of individual phones being bugged. What the BNP didn’t tell its officers was that Skype comes with a ‘record all calls’ option, and this seems to have been switched on….

The story goes that Martin Reynolds (the BNP’s chief security goon) and four others gained access to Graham’s home by deception (neither Graham nor her partner, Matt Single, being at home at the time), then ransacked the place searching for thumb drives and disks, finally leaving with her laptop and a number of other items. At the same time, it has been said, Clive Jefferson and two males attempted to gain entry to Smith’s home but were refused entry.

There are a number of disturbing features about these raids, not the least of which is that they actually happened at all. What precisely does Nick Griffin believe he’s running here - the Stasi or the NKVD?...

It has long been suspected that those members who have foolishly taken on a bnp.org.uk email address (that is, one issued by the party) are having their emails monitored. This was borne out in Griffin’s insane Identity article three months ago, in which he more or less admitted that an ‘internal intelligence review’ mostly amounted to illegally checking through a member’s BNP email account for signs that he was an informer or ‘agent’. Mad or what?...

The repercussions of all this have been fierce and relentless. Danny Lake was sacked via text message by John Walker. When asked under whose authority Walker had sacked him, the response was apparently; ‘Me. You stupid cunt. Fuck off into oblivion’. Lake’s mobile is now, not surpisingly, dead.

Claims are being made that Nick Cass is considering resigning, several members have written in to various forums to state that they’ve had enough and are not renewing their membership, party organisers and fundholders are resigning en masse (Falkirk and Aberdeen are two examples), at least one councillor, Nina Brown, is resigning the whip and it has been suggested that Chris Beverley has either resigned or been expelled along with Steve Blake. We’ve just received word (15:20) that Ian Dawson has resigned too.

———
———

If Cass goes so will most of West Yorkshire - a foundation-region for the party - and who could blame them?

Posted by john on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:03 | #

Thanks for letting me know what well informed jews think. Now I,m sure I,m right, a storm in a teacup over a few who got too big for their boots.

Posted by calvin on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:11 | #

GW, point taken, maybe Griffin’s best plan might be to break away from the party?

I’m intrigued that Il Ragno was almost recruited by MR, the guy is some kind of genius.

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:59 | #

Calvin,

Il Ragno is the most talented and funny yet focussed (and Judaically focussed) writer on the scene, bar none.  I would need a humour transplant as well as Mario Puzo’s proverbial truckload of Spanish Fly pumped into my scrotum to offer any sort of serious competition.  My good friend Ambleside, alias Colin Laney, alias ... introduced me to him a couple of years back.  From memory, I asked Il Ragno to roam freely and frequently beyond the JQ, the single concentration on which I found, and find, excessive.  The rest is as Alias ... Alias describes it, with one important exception:-

Many good writers and thinkers are none too pluralist.  To be perfectly frank, they simply don’t tolerate divergent opinion.  This is the anti-dialecticism of the nascent but unmistakably dictatorial mind, and in my book it’s a bad thing - and not in accordance with the stage at which opinion sympathetic to the survival of European Man finds itself.

For myself, I don’t feel that I have a sufficient grasp of Truth.  I want to hear, weigh, react - favourably or otherwise - to all broadly survivalist thinking, and find therein an intellectual definition of the world and of self.  This ambition seems to be shared with few talented people, and in the end they return, as Il Ragno did, to more comfortable lodgings.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:04 | #

“If Cass goes so will most of West Yorkshire - a foundation-region for the party - and who could blame them?”  (—Ambleslide)

I could. 

What’s worse, an all-Negro Britain (make no mistake:  that is the other side’s intention or if not literally that its equivalent for all practical purposes, rest you assured) or Nick Griffin’s BNP eavesdropping on intra-party e-mails and even tapping a couple of phones in order to find out who’s working for MI5, Abe Foxman, or Jewish Lord “Cash-for-Honors” Hollick (founder of the IPPR)? 

Take one look at South Africa.  Take a look at Detroit, at Washington D.C., at California for crying out loud.  When I was a little boy Detroit was white and a great place!  Fifteen years ago California was white and a garden-of-eden.  Now look what Bush and the Jews have done to it!!!  California was deliberately transformed in less than fifteen years into a cesspool.  LA used to be a great city and white.  Now it’s a Turd-World piece of excrement.  Whites have all left.  You don’t think the Jews in Britain have exactly the same plans for the entire U.K.?  Think again.  You think you have time to waste with petty squabbling in getting this juggernaut derailed before it’s too late?  WAKE UP PLEASE. 

One of the commenters here said just yesterday that six states of the U.S. are now without a white majority.  I remember it was just something like three years ago it was announced proudly by the other side that California was the first state to achieve that distinction so beloved of the Jews.  And the drive to do the same thing to the other forty-four is continuing full-throttle.  In three more years it’ll be twelve and the Jews’ll be jumping for joy as more and more Euros pass out of existence because their living space is taken away and given to mystery meat. 

Do you think the same Jewish-led forces operating in the U.K. plan anything different for there?  They’re planning on making Britain not ten percent Negro, not twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty percent Negro.  They’re planning on making Britain sixty percent Negro or more (yes and I don’t give a damn what kind of Negro you’re talking about:  for the purposes of this discussion anything non-white’s a Negro as far as I’m concerned and don’t believe for one second the Jews pushing this don’t view it the same way:  “You’re not white?  You’ll do then!  Come to Britain — we’re driving the whites there to oblivion:  it’s payback time!”) explicitly driving whites into minority status there and doing all they can to see to it that the remaining white minority gets Alon-Zivved over time — mulattoidized, Brazilianized, the Jews’ dream-genetics for Euros.  Say good-bye to the British Isles and hello to the Isles of Dr. Moreau.  You laugh?  Come back in thirty years. 

Do you want that?  No?  Well, right now’s the time to stop it and the BNP’s all you’ve got fighting against it, my friend.  Wake up and start smelling the coffee and don’t be a blithering fool! 

All right, no, if it had been my phone that was tapped I wouldn’t like it.  But you know, it’s funny how the BNP’s legitimacy is very often called into question for precisely the suspicion it’s “riddled with government plants,” not a few critics even strongly suspecting Griffin himself of working for the other side — how often do we read someone giving that as why they refuse to support the BNP? — and here when Griffin and a few others including this South African cop who saw at first-hand what lies in store, who understands from having seen with his own eyes this isn’t a game of tiddlywinks — try to snoop on a few people for the party’s good everyone threatens to leave the party?  Let them shut up then about the party’s “always doing or saying the wrong thing because its filled to the brim with government agents and spies on the ADL’s payroll.”  I don’t want to hear that any more then.  (Maybe the ones who go ballistic when Griffin tries to snoop are the government agents?)  Either that or let Griffin and this South African clean house. 

You don’t think every major political party does the same in case of the least suspicions about any of its functionaries?  Damn right they do:  phone tapping, e-mail snooping, the whole ball of wax and lots worse.  And I wouldn’t even want to imagine the kind of internal security Abe Foxman’s got for the ADL, an outfit which keeps files on private U.S. citizens that make the FBI’s files look like a second-grade girl’s Barney-the-Purple-Dinosaur Dear-Diary Album.

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:07 | #

On Griffin’s strategy, it is certainly to yield nothing ... to appear to be firm in leadership and generous (ie, not weak) ... to outlast the dissidents and, therefore, to maintain his grip on power.  Like all politicians, Griffin is acting for self.

I’m not really surprised by that.  But it is a little disappointing.  Ultimately, this should all be about the interests of Britain’s people.  So on what basis is he serving them by this strategy, and by the low behaviour of his friends over the past couple of days?

In Griffin, we are witnessing something of a personal tragedy.  I don’t think he can recover from it even if he defeats the dissidents this time around.  The flaw lies in himself.

Posted by Yuezhus on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:49 | #

They’ve actually recruited Arthur Kemp of all people? Arthur Kemp!!...?? He will fit nicely among other high ranking BNP Court Pseudohistorians, such as Mark Deavin and Griffin, what with their lambasting of plebian Romans for being ‘half-caste’, the Tocharians as being anything other than technologically inferior to China throughout all of its history and other such poorly researched, scantily sourced articles, supposedly complementing BNP policy in a neat manner.

Ppfff.

In Nick Griffin’s ‘The Celts’, he laments the fact that whites are letting the “botched, stupid and ugly inheriting the Earth”, and that Bronze Age white tribes - small, illiterate, uncivilized, mind you - didn’t have any qualms about this. Odd, then, that the qualms had by medieval white horse nomads north of the Black and Caspian failed to prevent their quick, complete take-over by NE Asian Mongolian nomads, but this is beside the point.

Internally, Mr Griffin has no serious objection to rancorous, bitter charlatanism to make do as historical backing. This is incompetently masked by the ‘hate-free’ facade he and the BNP manifesto put on.

This shouldn’t be acceptable. A political party should never rely on novice archaeologists and historians like this to further their cause anyway, but the rancorous, malicious attitude that Griffin secretly doesn’t find repugnant is something no rational political entity can carry.

I am too inexperienced in politics to give a viable alternative, but the BNP is still driven in part by base repulsion and doesn’t turn away people who follow base, repulsion-based politics, like Arthur ‘Nordic Desert Empire!!1’ Kemp.

Their opponents are correct: hate still drives the party. That shouldn’t be so. I welcome its fragmentation.

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:30 | #

The welcome depends on whether fragmentation produces something more serviceable.

As of the moment of the burglary, the BNP leadership stands condemned by its actions in this disastrous affair.  It has shown itself to be unfit to represent the political interests of the native peoples of these islands.

For their part, they will not be led - even to salvation - by liars, burglars, thieves and spies.  How on Earth could Griffin, Darby and Co suppose that they would?  Have they so little understanding of their own people, and of the great tiredness with deception and chicanery, and the longing for virtue in political life which, today, afflicts them?

I have been pleased to applaud and defend the increasing electability of the British National Party.  But, self-evidently, I must look elsewhere for the spark of personal good which I believe the native British public will demand from a salvatory nationalism.

Posted by Ambleslide on Fri, 14 Dec 2007 06:48 | #

Prominently featured on the front page where it never would have surfaced two weeks ago, this marvel of political analysis by - a UKIP member!

http://www.bnp.org.uk/?p=191

“A WORLD COUP d’ ETAT IS PLANNED TO BRING ABOUT WORLD GOVERNMENT

The time-line explained:

KARL MARX.1818-1883

Marx was a German Jew with radical views.

In 1842 he became a member of the Hegelians an anti-religious, radical group with Satanic interests.

bookended by

BY STEALTH BRITAIN HAS BEEN EASED INTO THE CONTINENTAL SHOE

In 1973-1975 John Prescott was a delegate to the Council of Europe and from 1975-1979 he was a member of the European Assembly.

In 1999 John Prescot (sic) introduced his 30 year old Dream for EU Regions in Britain. Under the EU plan Britain has been divided into 12 Regions. Scotland is a Region, N.I, Wales, London and England. ENGLAND has been divided into eight EU Regions. THEN ENGLAND’S NAME WAS TAKEN OF (sic) THE EUROPEAN MAP IN 1997.

In 1998/99. Deputy Prime Minister John Prescot (sic) handpicked 60 people in each of the EIGHT ENGLISH REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT AGENCIES to direct the building of 3 Millon (sic) new houses.

***

Bravo BNP! If only the media gave you a fair crack at the whip, this stuff on the front page of every newspaper would convert almost all of us.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:46 | #

Ambleslide is right that that piece never should’ve been run on the BNP site “as is,” without extensive editing, and maybe not at all since it’s possible that even with lots of editing it couldn’t be made into something that was right for their web-site without such drastic changes it would simply no longer be the same piece.

Agreed:  it was a bad choice by the site’s editor.

1) What remedy does Ambleslide propose for the BNP’s shortage of quality editorial staff for their site, bearing in mind that the Jews have succeeded in making everyone with higher education scared-stiff of joining, and as a tiny party they don’t have tons of cash to hire people?  (I’d say they’re doing pretty damn well with the tools they’ve got.)

2) I can’t tell whether or not Ambleslide is like the unthinking type who pooh-poohed Enoch’s efforts to sound the alarm, the type who, not really and truly convinced of the gravity of the present and growing demographic threat, is going to wax all finicky and hard-to-please about supporting the BNP, depending on its ability to produce an editorially flawless web-site or something, the type who’s going to nit-pick what are, in comparison to the national mortal peril, insignificant details:  clearly no one’s support for the BNP should be diminished in the slightest on account of the occasional odd article slipping by their site’s editors, especially when they’ve said themselves they need more good-quality staff.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:55 | #

Constructively criticise the BNP where appropriate?  Yes, of course.  Withhold support because of stuff like this?  No, clearly not; that’s such a no-brainer it’s surprising if there’s any dispute.

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:53 | #

From the BNP website, an Important Announcement: Staff Appointments and Reorganisation:-

As part of a major overhaul to prepare the BNP for the tasks facing it in the New Year — the London Assembly elections in particular — a number of important staff appointments and changes have been made.

Firstly, two posts have been abolished immediately: Group Development and Head of Publicity.

A third post - that of Regional Treasurer - is being phased out as soon as possible in accordance with the previously announced policy of regionalising the local accounting procedures.

From now on, publicity will be broken up into its component parts, with Martin Wingfield producing the superb Voice of Freedom newspaper and John Bean producing the equally superb Identity magazine.

Mark Collett has been reassigned to the post of party Graphic Design Artist, producing Identity, national and main election leaflets, the monthly Patriot local leaflet templates, as well as the British Nationalist monthly member’s bulletin ...

But at Enough is Enough, it’s not:-

Mark Collett, at the behest of Mr Griffin, is popping up all over the place. Mr Griffin is not only using him as the face of confrontation/résistance to those wishing to save this Party, he has renamed his position, but predictably left him with the very same power with the same arrangement to continue causing trouble as he did before. If this is however, an attempt of reconciliation, it has to amount to the feeblest effort in the history of nationalism! People are not foolish Nick, and are already seeing straight through this.

In playing to the general membership rather than addressing EiE directly, the leadership reveals its true agenda of monopolising power.  But if the corruptions of power are not directly what the EiE protest is about, that protest certainly laid bare such corruption.

As a mere observer I must say that the end-goal of EiE - electability by curtailing public embarrassment - is of a lower order significance to electability through integrity.  Being careful not to tread in the brown stuff isn’t the same thing as driving in a golden carriage.

In its appeal to the party’s activists, EiE has been at pains to point out that it doesn’t seek to split the party, isn’t seeking a palace coup, or to replace Griffin as leader.  EiE leader Sadie Graham is, in any case, expecting her first child - hardly the right moment to come to the leadership of an ambitious political party.

One hopes, then, this will turn out to be a revolution of two parts, separated by an as yet unknown time period.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:55 | #

From across the pond and maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about, but I humbly think if the BNP as a whole comes out of all this jockeying stronger or at least no less strong, it’s legitimate but if it comes out weaker or with its goals (both stated and implicit) diluted it’s not, and what a shame then.  I wish people would keep in mind the enormity of the task lying ahead, remembering there’s precious little time — every week counts, even every day.  Finally:  I for one have never agreed with those voices who dislike Griffin or think he’s not up to the task.  I can’t even understand them.  What are they talking about?  I like him.  I think he’s excellent and the party’s fortunate to have him.

Posted by Steve on Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:00 | #

Fred Scrooby wrote…
“Withhold support because of
stuff like this?  No, clearly not;”

Well I just joined the BNP this week.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:38 | #

God bless you Steve, you did the right thing, right for your kids present or future as the case may be, right for yourself, and right for your country.  And you know who else it’s right for?  Your forefathers.  Your ancestors who sacrificed and often literally died to bequeath you your priceless national inheritance.  That inheritance is yours, not anyone else’s.  Your fathers didn’t die of hard work and disappointment, or cut down on the battlefield, in order to bequeath your inheritance to these others, these others who are being brought in to replace you.  They died for you alone, and for your countrymen, and for your posterity.  Don’t let anyone rob you of it, as Blair has done and Brown will continue to do if not stopped, as certain as that the sun rises.  Brown’s strings are being pulled by thieves who have no regard whatsoever for you, your forefathers, your posterity, or Britain.  None.  They want you out of the picture, replaced by Negroes, Pakistanis, Arabs, and Chinamen and they want all that belongs to you, including your women, to go to these others.  Are you going to let thieves have what they want or are you going to join with others who are trying to stop them?

Thank you for the stand you’ve taken.

Posted by Joe on Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:19 | #

John Tyndall marched around in a nazi uniform when he was younger.  A political party that wants to be taken seriously just can’t have someone with that kind of past as its leader.

Posted by Scipio Americanus on Fri, 21 Dec 2007 06:53 | #

Guessedworker, I have several additional questions for you:

1)  With regard to the BNP’s “lying, spying, thieving, phone-tapping,” etc., are we talking about mere allegations or demonstrable facts?  If we are discussing facts, then what have Nick Griffin and his close associates to say in defense of these actions? 

2)  While such actions, if true, definitely call into question sound judgement and basic common sense, are we not to examine the possibility of extenuating circumstances that might mitigate the calls for outright condemnation and even a withdrawal of demands for fresh, new leadership?

3)  How would you assess the overall character quality of the dissidents who are ultimately seeking Nick Griffin’s removal given that they have publicly aired “dirty laundry” which can only tarnish the party’s public image?  Could this not be a case of the pot calling the kettle black? 

Fred Scrooby raises some very important points.  As it now stands, the BNP is the only game in town and a break-up of the party would necessarily dissipate nationalist sentiment and retard the movement for years to come.  It’s later than you think. Is there still time to construct another party to supercede the BNP? And what template would this splinter-party use to model itself?  Who would constitute its leadership? These and many other questions need be answered before actions are to be taken that could irrevocably damage the British nationalist movement and any hope your nation might have of ending this current multiracial, multicultural nightmare-world Britons find themselves living in today short of bloodshed on a scale that few would even have the courage to contemplate. 

On the other hand, CHARACTER IS EVERYTHING.  Without moral clarity and personal integrity demonstrated by sound leadership,  the BNP’s endeavor to secure Britain’s future from the dark forces arrayed against her will ultimately come to naught, regardless of recent election successes and the appearance of forward momentum.  If what you say is true about Nick Griffin, then it would appear that you have a mini-fuehrer at the helm of the BNP.  But given the political environment and numerous constraints involved, why is strong, decisive leadership at this point such a bad thing?  It strikes me that too many of our people have absorbed the ethos of “democracy” and all that it entails, to their detriment. 

Speaking of character, Nick Griffin has been to hell and back again while having successfully faced down the venom-spewing, hate-crazed jackals in the injustice system at the risk of a lengthy prison sentence for speaking the truth on behalf of his people.  You see, when the shit hits the fan, some guys run and some guys stay to face the fire. Nick Griffin has faced the fire while demonstrating moral courage and personal integrity.  Integrity is defined as remaining true to your values and convictions in action.  Nick Griffin has demonstrated this vital character quality in spades.  Nick Griffin has walked the talk.  What have the dissidents demonstrated?  Talk is cheap, you know.  It’s time for them to put up or shut up. 

What many people seem not to understand is that the nations of the West now stand at the edge of an abyss. We no longer have time for politics as usual. Our enemies are demons that are out to destroy us.  There is no compromising with them.  The choice is simple:  we dominate them or they will dominate and destroy us.  Given the stakes, it strikes me as absurd to demand Nick Griffin’s removal on the basis of allegations of improprieties from a hand full of up-starts who have no tract record of leadership and nothing to offer but empty promises.  What have these self-professed serious contenders for leadership accomplished to make such demands? 

Contrary to popular opinion, politics is not a debating society nor an academic parlor-game but the art of the possible directed to achieve specific short, intermediate and long-term goals within an ideological framework.  Given the demographic catastrophe that has befallen our Western nations coupled with the hate-crazed fanatics who are arrayed against us, our ultimate success will not be accomplished via tracts on parliamentary procedures nor lessons on good government. 

Democracy has always been the weigh station on the road to tyranny, as ALL history has aptly demonstrated. These principles are equally disastrous when applied to attaining intra-party objectives. Why compound your problems, at this point,  by denouncing the only man who has had the fortitude to stand tall against your enemies at great risk to his life and comfort?

Granted, I am an outsider to these goings-on and do not possess enough information to make an educated prognosis about Nick Griffin’s ability as leader.  But from what I have read so far, the BNP’s actions, if true, while regrettable certainly from a public relations standpoint and quite possibly from a moral one as well, do not warrant the removal of the only man who has stared down The Beast without flinching.  Nor does it warrant a hand-full of up-starts to publicly issue demands in a sophomoric fashion to the leader of the only political party that currently represents sanity and a ray of hope. 

The ultimate question of Nick Griffin’s ability to lead in the future should be determined by his willingness to associate himself with the best and brightest available as opposed to mere yes-men who will inevitably secure his good graces by playing to his vanity.  Does the dearth of such men in the party equate to this being the case?  No.  Indeed, given the quasi-totalitarian conditions Britons find themselves living under today, it is no surprise to me to read about a shortage of such men.  Unfortunately, courage and integrity are not in great supply these days.  Further, the vast majority of those with wealth and connections are the least likely candidates to renounce fame and fortune to join a movement that has been branded “counter-revolutionary” and “racist.” 

I suppose each person must assess the situation for himself and act accordingly.  But I will tell you one thing, though, and that is without having an established political party that Britons can turn to as a rallying point when darkness completely descends on your once sceptered isle, future resistance to such an unthinkable tyranny will be futile.  That is one advantage Europeans presently have over Americans—established political parties to represent the Occidental cause.  Here in the United States, we have NOTHING!  Think carefully, very carefully my Anglo-Saxon brethren, before taking actions based on petty personality disputes and alleged improprieties that could irrevocably weaken and possible destroy the nationalist movement in your country.  Again, it is later than you think. 

Scipio Americanus

Posted by Scipio Americanus on Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:24 | #

“John Tyndall marched around in a nazi uniform when he was younger.  A political party that wants to be taken seriously just can’t have someone with that kind of past as its leader.” (—Joe)

If that is true, then you must also demand Nick Griffin’s removal based on your own logic.  After all, did he not spend much of his youth in the streets brawling with communist scum while sporting a leather jacket, combat boots and a bad haircut?  Given the crowd he used to hang with, no doubt he issued a few Roman salutes and a handful of “88s” himself.  But neither man’s youthful indiscretions make them Nazis nor should it preclude them as leaders, especially given the scarcity of real men who are willing to publicly speak the truth on matters of nation and race rather than issue Judaic-inspired platitudes that we’ve heard countless times before.  Age often brings with it wisdom. Granted, such baggage doesn’t help given the hated-crazed fanatics in the media coupled with the brain-washed lemmings who constitute the electorate but what makes you think that the Judeo-Liberal Establishment and its underlings wouldn’t attempt to tarnish them as Nazis even if both had “respectable” resumes? 

Scipio Americanus

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:51 | #

Scipio Americanus: “With regard to the BNP’s “lying, spying, thieving, phone-tapping,” etc., are we talking about mere allegations or demonstrable facts?”

Facts, sadly.

”... what have Nick Griffin and his close associates to say in defense of these actions?”

Griffin admitted at a local party meeting on the 15th December that the computer in his possession belongs to Sadie Graham, not the party.  Still, yesterday the BNP site featured a rather amateurishly contrived piece of “evidence” that a letter published at EiE showing that Collett and Harnam had already been issued final warnings is an EiE forgery.  The “properties” page, which was also published on the BNP site, showed that the “document” was last opened three days after Griffin’s admission.

Griffin’s defence is attack, using any means available, fair or foul.  Hence Simon Darby’s shameful Newsnight allegation that the conspirators had been revealed to be “hard-line neo-Nazis”, while others have accused them before and only yesterday of being “reds”.

And so the cackhanded lying goes on.

”... are we not to examine the possibility of extenuating circumstances”

What extenuating circumstances?  I see none.

“How would you assess the overall character quality of the dissidents”

I do not know them.  But their colleagues speak very highly indeed of their honesty, sincerity and dedication.  Excepting the red/hard-line neo-Nazi conspiratorial claptrap, none of their loyalist detractors have levelled charges against their characters, only against their method.

They, let it be said, adopted that method (the EiE website) only after three fruitless years of trying to move Griffin to address the continuing troublemaking in the party.

There is no moral equivalence between the leadership and the rebels.

Nationalism as the rallying call for a disappearing people must be above the vile charges made against it by that people’s enemies.  Even electorally successful conservative models such as VB and Blocher’s SVP have to face the same charges.  They are inevitable.  The only protective for the speaker of nationalist truths is a personal one, not merely ideological.  He or she must be morally above reproach - not as a whiter-than-white saint, of course, but above the particular smears and assertions of the “fascist-mongers”.

Griffin, Darby, Barnes et al have added to the usual fascist-mongering demonisations the charge that they are ruthless and despotic liars and men of very low political ability.  They have provided a vivid demonstration of what a Britain under them would look like.  It isn’t a Britain any wavering non-nationalist is likely to wish for.

If nationalism cannot be honourable, it will certainly never slough off the charges of dishonour.  The choice it offers the native electorate is thereby degraded to one of dishonourable survival.  It’s just very bad politics.

Posted by Scipio Americanus on Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:12 | #

“Nationalism as the rallying call for a disappearing people must be above the vile charges made against it by that people’s enemies….He or she must be morally above reproach - not as a whiter-than-white saint, of course, but above the particular smears and assertions of the fascist-mongers….If nationalism cannot be honourable, it will certainly never slough off the charges of dishonour.  The choice it offers the native electorate is thereby degraded to one of dishonourable survival.” (Guessedworker)

Thanks for the quick follow-up GW.  I share your sentiments regarding the need of being honorable (please excuse the American spelling of the word) and from what you have stated, it appears that Griffin & Company are following a path to oblivion which saddens me deeply. Unfortunately, this life or death struggle will not be resolved via politics, I’m afraid. When I stated that character is everything, I damn well meant it!  As you must know, character must be practiced as a matter of principle for all times if anything of lasting value is to be achieved. Indeed, it is better to fail in an honorable fight than to win by infamy.  In the immortal words of the great Romanian nationalist Corneliu Zelea Codreanu:

“All the intelligence, all the learning, all talents, all education will be of no avail to us if we are going to be treacherous.  Teach your children not to use treachery either against a friend or against their greatest foe.  Not only will they not win, but they will be more than defeated, they will be crushed.  Nor should they use treachery against the treacherous person and his treacherous ways for, if they should win, only the persons change.  Treachery will remain unchanged.  The treachery of the victor will be substituted for that of the defeated.  In essence, the same treachery will rule the world.  The darkness of treachery in the world cannot be replaced by another darkness but only by the light brought by the soul of the brave, full of character and honor.”

This exchange reminds me of another quote made by the great German historian, Oswald Spengler:

“We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man.”

Of course what Spengler was praising was our intrepid soldier’s character which was non-negotiable; he perished with his soul intact! It’s about high standards of personal honor and knightly virtues which mean more to a man than life itself because life is simply not worth living without them.

Death is the one fate we cannot escape. But we can certainly choose to remain loyal to our race’s spiritual ideals and instinctive values, even in the face of a diseased, degenerate and dying civilization.

Surely you are familiar with Edmond Rostand’s masterpiece Cyrano de Bergarac? It’s a romantic work of unbelievable genius and constitutes the last fading ember of Western cultural greatness. The story is about a brilliant but ugly man — poet, playwright, philosopher, musician, soldier and dualist — in love with a beautiful woman, who attempts to win her, not for himself, but for his handsome but conventional rival.

The author called it a heroic comedy but it’s really a tragedy in disguise. The hero of the story “a soul clothed in shining armor,” loses everything in the end - his love, his poetry, even his death. However, it has a benevolent quality in that the hero maintains his values to the very end. NOTHING broke his efficacious spirit, symbolized by his white plume (panache).

In the dying words of the greatest hero in the annals of Western literature:

Yes, all my laurels you have riven away
And all my roses; yet in spite of you
There is one crown I bear away with me,
And tonight, when I enter before God,
My salute shall sweep all the stars away
From the blue threshold! One thing without stain,
Unspotted from the world, in spite of doom
Mine own!
And that is…
My white plume…

Rostand was convinced that the great spirited individual was doomed to defeat in a malevolently crafted physical universe.  Hence Cyrano’s two soul mates: Socrates and Galileo. Of course, I ardently disagree with his view and believe values are achievable in this world. Despite my ideological differences with the author, the play has such an exulted sense of life that it makes it my all-time favorite and one that I wholeheartedly recommend to those unfamiliar with the play. It’s timeless message is even more relevant to us now than ever before.

With this in mind, I’ll leave you with these parting words:

“The technocrat might hold the world in his hands, while the white Christian men are banished to the underground. But when the great Cavalier makes his final charge, He will look for the men with the white plumes. And we will be ready to ride with our King in the great and final conflict.” (D.E. Thomas)

As always, strength and honor! - Scipio Americanus

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:14 | #

Everyone should read Scipio’s argumentation in this thread, here and elsewhere.  I for one am very impressed with it.

Posted by Scipio Americanus on Mon, 31 Dec 2007 06:15 | #

Everyone should read Scipio’s argumentation in this thread, here and elsewhere.  I for one am very impressed with it.—Fred Scrooby.

Thanks for the compliment!  In the words of Cicero: “Reasoning, tested by doubt, is argumentation.”  Or something to that effect. 

Please accept my very best wishes with success this coming new year.

Scipio Americanus

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Mon, 31 Dec 2007 06:31 | #

“Please accept my very best wishes with success this coming new year.”

Thank you very much and likewise to you and yours, Scipio.

Posted by FromSA on Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:14 | #

People, you really are over estimating the “SA intelligence muscle”! Arthur Kemp joined the SA police because he did not fancy having to go to the army - the other option open to him. After a few weeks in the SA security police he was kicked out of the security branch for being too radical for the old apartheid SA police! He spent the majority of his time in the police as a rank and file member who….wait for it…... handled the administration of police vehicle accidents!  If this is the best security that the BNP can dig up I would not be too worried.

Posted by james on Tue, 23 Nov 2010 06:09 | #

A poem from a BNP member
Figure on a desolate landscape, the future war between Islam and Christains, Europe, North America,- 2020- 2090. this poem, is how we will distroy our enemys ,though the power of our ideas.
THIS IS THE WAY WE THINK THERE IS NO EQUAL ,TO WEST MANS THOUGHTS.
The other day I when to London town and this strange being did I find ,that was not male nor female in form ,streached out on ic e, desolation towards horizon, surrounds. That tore is self apart, rended limb from limb it did depart.Dead finger nails tore living flesh ,cannibal teeth, ate lieing tongue from mouth, for this alone keeps mankind from the logic , of alpha truth , maths alone.The figure I did not see in the back ground at first, head bowed low, against the cold winds of future, British blasts.This giant of 20th century political thought, even before the existance of the BNP.This child of England ,of empire of empiral empirativism, of the empiral measurments of maths alone, for atrue man, believes only in,IC, maths ,like the statue of liberty, and this though the painting, he did say to me , One day your streets will run red with the blood of your children(9/11, BOMBING ON BUSES AND UNDERGROUND LONDON) , for he had seen it all before, in India and Bengal. For he had been crusified, 60 years ago ,for stateing ,the 11th commanment of the anglo celtic native race of the these isles, BUNTNESS ABOVE ALL,by the lieing Westminister political correct, muti what ever, whores.Long may the BNP be free ,long may the mind of man reign supreme, though genetic engneered manafest destiny, that the white man may reign over white men ,black men ,and other types of men, in the third empire of Britian,next 2000 years, though 50 eye colours 50 hair colours, dont allow the blacks and other to breed you out of your existance,subserivism is not ,LIBERAL LIERS , balance in all things, instead be dominate over them ,lets see if the other races ,Negro asians, chinese, ect ect, are the liers that we know them to be.Dont let them M15, search dark, UAF, speical branch , force you to your knees. He over the howling wind did he yell ate me.As he tured , hands came to his eyes with tears ,ate the England in 2010 , he did see ,Enock Powell, smiled waved, and walked into the cloud covered horizon, in the painting before me. Now the BNP will have revenge on the timid liberal mice ,that govern us, confusing equity with the stupid idea of America ,with the Britsh, concept of equity 50 50 ism, balance in all things , including racial ,facia l , being for Churchill , Enock, Orwell , Asoph, and stupid ugle ,limited in knowledge , for the first begining of truth, is the realisation of how little you know. Socrates, and me,JC

Posted by james on Tue, 07 Jun 2011 05:31 | #

In the above poem the word , equity stupid idea of America, should be equality( shite concept based on words ,rather than blunt substance) Equity, British concept is 50 50 % balance in all things, how many blacks do you know, that have blue eyes blonde hair, LIERS TO THE LAW OF MATHS, of with 50 eye colours 50 hair colours = 0.
Words are not works, the veiw of Plato still holds true ,there are two worlds 1 the world of the mind = human being ,and the world of human beings as in, to bring, into being , what is truth, substance , the present political nature of the liber, conserv, labour, partys, on this side of the water, is the same shite as on the other, repub, demos,in the USA.
Heres to the future were real truth wil be spoken, based on maths, were mind kind, in the third empire will reign supreme, in genetic form.
YOU POOR BEINGS, HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH.?
JAMES BNP MEMBER