Posted by notuswind on Mon, 17 May 2010 21:48 | #

GW,

Questions for Mr. Jonathan Bowden:

(1.1) What is the meaning of the results of the recent British elections?
(1.2) What are the prospects of the new Tory government?

(2.1) What is the meaning of the economic crisis in Greece?
(2.2) What does the recent economic crisis mean for Europe and its existing economic structure?
(2.3) What does the recent economic crisis mean for Western politics more broadly?

(3.1) What are the long-term political trends of our era?
(3.2) Based on the trends, what major events do you expect to happen by the middle of this century?
(3.3) How can nationalists capitalize on those trends?

(4.1) What are the [short, medium, long]-term prospects of the BNP?
(4.2) What are your views on Nick Griffin’s leadership?
(4.3) What can the BNP do to improve its prospects?

(5.1) How do nationalists challenge the hegemony that the leftist establishment has over the educational and entertainment organs of our society?

Posted by notuswind on Mon, 17 May 2010 21:52 | #

(continued)

(6.1) To what extent does the Left’s political hegemony depend on the current global economic structure?
(6.2) If the current global economic structure were to fall apart what would that mean for nationalists?

Posted by graham_lister on Mon, 17 May 2010 22:16 | #

GW excellent news!

I would be interested on JBs views on the rise of Pim Fortuyn and now Geert Wilders in the Netherlands (one of the most liberal nations in the world) and what lessons that has for the nationalist right in the UK context.

As I undertsand it Wilders attracts a large proportion of his support from the middle classes; given the importance of the educated middle class to politics how can more of this strata be attracted to the nationalist right in the UK? To give another example Roger Scruton is happy to be associated with Vlaams Belang but it is very doubtful he would give a sppech to the radical right in the UK. Equally there are many excellent critques of liberalism and it’s bastard offspring multiculturalism; for example in City Journal (especially Anthony Daniels/Theodore Dalrymple). Just how can such resources be brought into the ideological/propaganda framework of the nationalist right in the UK? Perhaps we do need a postmodern “cultural” radical right (with an implicit race-based “deep” ideology)?

Posted by James Bowery on Mon, 17 May 2010 23:07 | #

Proposed platform:

* Treat pollution as a criminal assault on the nation.
* Household bankruptcy protection is the median price of a home plus median capitalization of a job.
* Anyone or anything (including the government) can place money in escrow as a bid for any property right under British law thereby establishing an in-place liquidation value for that property right.
* Cease taxing economic activity except for international trade, which is taxed to retain sovereignty.
* National revenue is instead a use fee for property rights paid at a rate equal to the liquidation value of the property right times the short term lending rate to the government—but individual exemption is equal to one half of household bankruptcy protection.  The owner can liquidate his property right at any time by accepting the escrowed bid for his property.
* National revenue is sent in equal amounts to all citizens as monthly deposits in their bank accounts and all able bodied men are required to arm themselves and participate in county militia training for protection of private property rights as well as defense of country.

You would, of course, win with this platform, in favor of an independent citizenry it would abolish the government bureaucracies now largely occupied by traitors and parasites and it would give the British people the necessary and immediate economic link between immigration and loss of income, so why not run on it?

Posted by Hawxhurst on Mon, 17 May 2010 23:44 | #

Questions for Mr. Bowden:

Are you Irish? 

How much of your ancestry is Irish?  Which parts of your ancestry are Irish?

Posted by cladrastis on Tue, 18 May 2010 00:00 | #

What does Mr. Bowden think should serve as the mythos of Europe?  If such a mythos does not exist, should we attempt to create it?  Do Europeans need both a mythos and a chronos (history)? 

What does Mr. Bowden think of entheogens and psychedelics and the role they play (and have played) in traditional European spirituality?

Posted by Dan Dare on Tue, 18 May 2010 00:47 | #

I would be interested in (1) an update on Jonathan’s relationship with the BNP; (2) a status report on the British New Right and (3) whether he feels the BNP can be re-purposed as a political vehicle for Middle England, or is it time to go back to the drawing board.

Posted by Rachet Wheel on Tue, 18 May 2010 00:52 | #

What’s the good news for white Britain?

What’s the bad news for white Britain?

Is there any realistic chance of the bad news being changed in our lifetime?

Posted by Captainchaos on Tue, 18 May 2010 00:58 | #

Ask Bowden if a more virile expression of his will to power would not be to give up the artsy-fartsy in favor of pursuit of personal political power.

Posted by Ronery Asian Guy on Tue, 18 May 2010 02:10 | #

Hi. First of all, I need to point out that I am Asian with anti-globalist and multiculturalist sentiments, as most of you here seem to be. That being said, I’ve been lurking in this site for quite some time and I have some questions for Bowden as well.

1. In one of this speeches, Bowden mentioned that the global elites of the west will join with the elites of India and other parts of the world.

So my question for him is: Do you think trends in mass immigration, hate speech laws, and multiculturalism will eventually find their way in other parts of the world.

2. What are the West’s chances of stopping these trends - mass immigration, hate speech laws, and multiculturalism - as a whole?

3. Are the BNP and other “extremist right wing” parties making any progress?

Posted by notuswind on Tue, 18 May 2010 05:05 | #

(7) What is your take on the relationship between environmentalism and nationalism.

Posted by Dan Dare on Tue, 18 May 2010 07:18 | #

Now what do you want to hear from him?

It’s an unaccustomed and eerie experience but I do find myself in full accord with the Cap’n in hoping for a dimenuendo on the arty-farty front on this particular occasion.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 18 May 2010 07:23 | #

Please, JB, tell us how it may be possible to save an ancient island people who seemed to indicate by their recent ballot box choices that they are studiously uninterested in saving themselves?

Posted by BNP FOREVER on Tue, 18 May 2010 07:41 | #

Do you believe in and favour parliamentary democracy?

Do you think that an aristocratic arrangement of society is desirable and should be restored in the UK?

In what sense are you a ‘pagan’? Do you literally believe in the old Norse or old Greco-Roman gods, or do you mean something else when you describe yourself as a pagan

What are your interests outside of politics?

Is it true that you are an actor? What films have you been a part of? What were they about?

What do you see as the best solution to the Muslim problem in Britain? Do you think that Islamic immigration specifically is the main ‘color problem’ in Europe?

What do you think of Geert Wilders?

Are you still the cultural officer of the BNP? What exactly do you do as the cultural officer of the BNP?

Posted by BNP Forever on Tue, 18 May 2010 07:44 | #

Do you think that Australians, New Zealanders, and Canadians of British ancestry who move back to their ancestral homeland are every bit as British as native-born Britons?

Posted by Joe-seph on Tue, 18 May 2010 07:45 | #

Your comics intrigue me. Will they ever be published on your website, or at least samples of them?

Posted by Gorboduc on Tue, 18 May 2010 09:27 | #

Ask him:

1) In view of his publicly-taken stance against Christianity (which system should rightly, imho, be taken as the given and therefore unnecessary-to-be-invented mythos of Europe), is Bowden going to institute a suppression of Christianity?

2) The recent case of Mr. Macfarlane

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sacked-christian-counsellor-gary-mcfarlanes-appeal-bid-dismissed-1958048.html

coming to mind,  which side does Bowden take? is it his position that Lord justice Laws has correctly ruled that the traditional notion, that English law originates in Christian principles and to some degree privileges them, is now redundant, on the grounds of a perceived need to accomodate “diversity”, or does he claim that Macfarlane and Carey have made out a reasonable case?
The fact that Mr. Macfarlane is as black as the ace of spades is of absolutely no relevance here. We’re talking principles.

4) Someone has suggested that Bowden should replace Griffin. If this happened, what would the official party line on Christianity be?

5) As a man’s artistic production may be taken as the outer index of his inner state, what does Bowden’s easily accessible artistic corpus tell us about his attitudes to traditional cultural norms?

6) Can Bowden’s aggressive and hard-nosed artistic modernism - a mode generally associated with leftist cultural theories - be re-evaluated in the light of his claims that his art is misunderstood, and is actually rightist, aristocratic, and elitist?

7) Were Boden at the BNP’s helm, would that party be seen as a democratic or as an aristocratic one?

Posted by fellist on Tue, 18 May 2010 09:58 | #

1. Are there any explicitly nationalist fiction writers - White ones, currently active - that he enjoys and can recommend?

2. Did he see the librarian—did he BOOM at him? And what response?

***

I regularly use the Leeds libraries and except for a few PCs all redirect from MR to GNXP. Isn’t this likely someone with access to the Leeds Libraries system making mishief? Other ‘dissident’ sites such as attackthesystem.com and antiwar.com(!) are simply banned outright. MR is the only site I’ve tried to visit on the network that has been attacked in this way.

Posted by fellist on Tue, 18 May 2010 10:00 | #

Jonathan has responded positively to my request for an interview

Of course he has, the old ham! 

Posted by BNP FOREVER on Tue, 18 May 2010 10:34 | #

Jonathan Bowden, the BNP needs to put you in the public spotlight more often. You should be the guy being interviewed about BNP policies on BBC, Question Time, etc. Nick Griffin and Andrew Brons do a good job, but you’re the best orator in British politics. Why aren’t you the one being interviewed?

Posted by PF on Tue, 18 May 2010 10:47 | #

As a man’s artistic production may be taken as the outer index of his inner state, what does Bowden’s easily accessible artistic corpus tell us about his attitudes to traditional cultural norms?

!mron lanoitidart siht gnitnualf sa nees eb tonnac erofereht sgnitniap s’nedwoB .stsaerb rieht gnirevoc gnihtolc yna raew ot ton nemow rof motsuc a saw ti noitazilivic naoniM tneicna nI

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 18 May 2010 11:18 | #

FP,

Ylerus ouy naem eht gnicnad slrig fo tneicna Tpyge.  Naterc nemow ylerem desopxe rieht stsaerb.

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Tue, 18 May 2010 11:26 | #

My questions would be ;

1) How can one man own so many bad suits ?

2) How can you honestly define those ‘psychotic episodes on canvas’ that you paint as art ?

3) Do you understand the difference between oration and communication ?

4) Do you think the facile and asinine, and slightly homo-erotic, obsession by British Nationalists with having plummy voiced, middle class, ex-public schoolboy types as the leaders of the Nationalist movement, when the Nationalist movement is primarily a working class movement as most of the middle class are knee trembling, gutless intellectuals who are too scared to come out of the closet, is counter productive and counter-intuitive ?

Posted by john on Tue, 18 May 2010 12:45 | #

Lee’s #1 should certainly be asked.
Nick’s genius is in being able to enpower people. It’s easy to miss just how good he actually is.
Could Jonathan ellaborate on his point of there not having been a real governing party in the U.K. for a century or so. Would this be connected to the managerial class?

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Tue, 18 May 2010 13:00 | #

1) fi gnitteg ruoy stit tuo is ‘erutluc’ neht si nadroJ ruo snoitareneg odranoel ad icnvi ?

2) As a Neitzschean how can you reconcile your stance against abortion with a womans ” Will To Power” and autonomy over her own body ?

Posted by Traditionalist on Tue, 18 May 2010 13:33 | #

Mr. Bowden is a good-looking chap.
When Britain was great, it was run by people who looked like him.
Now we Harriet Harman, Mandelson and the Milibands.

Posted by DRS on Tue, 18 May 2010 13:52 | #

“Is democracy finished?”

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Tue, 18 May 2010 14:03 | #

Would that be the great British politicians of Great Britain that ;

1) Invaded and colonised other nations during the Empire and then shipped in the natives as cheap labour whilst leaving British people to die in slums, poverty and workhouses, the great politicians that created the conditions for the potato famines, undertook the highland clearances, forced hundreds of thousands to be deported to nations like Australia for petty crimes where they died in squalor, who forbid the speaking of Welsh and indigenous British languages, that hung the poor for killing a rabbit, that forced the poor whites into indentured slavery in the West Indies where they died of diseases, that shipped orphaned British children (the orphans of war heroes) to Australia and New Zealand so paedophiles in the Churches could rape and sexually abuse them and the geniuses that took us into one world war as a Serbian Duke was assassinated by a yugoslavian anarchist that resulted in the death 1 million British troops and destroyed an entire generation and the fittest gene lines of a generation resulting in a genetic crisis that we have never recovered from as a nation and the brilliant politicians that took us into war again in 1939 as the Germans invaded Poland ?

Oh yeah, you must mean those brilliant politicians whose legacy has left us today all living in the greatest nation on earth.

Posted by DRS on Tue, 18 May 2010 15:12 | #

So Mr Barnes, can we take it you don’t like Union Jack waving British paleo-conservatives very much?

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Tue, 18 May 2010 17:25 | #

No.

A paleo-conservative is the political equivalent of an ammonite.

Posted by Traditionalist on Tue, 18 May 2010 17:47 | #

An ‘ammonite’ is a fossilized mollusc of the nautilus family, and not some type high explosive.

Posted by PF on Tue, 18 May 2010 19:58 | #

Soren wrote:

God’s hatred of molluscs is implacable.

are you saying we should rise against molluscs?

No arguments here. I hate those damn molluscs, always taking our jobs,
the council houses set aside for molluscs, horrible mollusc music that has
our children talking like molluscs.

Wessedgurekr: from ‘Costume in Minoan Times’

Women wore skirts that fell straight from the hips and then filled out to a wide hem. Some experts consider that the lower half of the skirt was stretched over hoops of rushes, wood or even metal. Others consider that these were the earliest boned crinolines. Belts, worn tight accentuated their tiny waists and sometimes carried a double apron that fell in front and back, over the skirt. Above the skirt they wore a tight-fitting short sleeved bodice. In most cases, the breasts were entirely exposed with the bodice laced up below the bust. Some frescoes, however, suggest that the breasts were in fact veiled with a transparent bolero top.

!aem oitanimulli elgooG

Question for JB:

Lee John Barnes has said:

Do you think the facile and asinine, and slightly homo-erotic, obsession by British Nationalists with having plummy voiced, middle class, ex-public schoolboy types as the leaders of the Nationalist movement, when the Nationalist movement is primarily a working class movement as most of the middle class are knee trembling, gutless intellectuals who are too scared to come out of the closet, is counter productive and counter-intuitive ?

In light of this statement, would you agree to undergo public flagellation and loudly repent your middle class origins? Should all middle class people joining the BNP be subjected to similar treatment? If the BNP comes to power, will middle class people be allowed to retain British citizenship?

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Tue, 18 May 2010 20:11 | #

In light of this statement, would you agree to undergo public flagellation and loudly repent your middle class origins?

# I am peasant, and proud of it and from a long line of honorable peasants.

Currently I am a revolting peasant.

Should all middle class people joining the BNP be subjected to similar treatment?

= No, by virtue of the fact they have joined the BNP means they have escaped eternal damnation and contempt.

If the BNP comes to power, will middle class people be allowed to retain British citizenship?

= That depends if they are Tories or Liberals or patriots.

Patriots will be allowed to stay, the rest will be relocated to Luton Road in Chatham, deported to the Islamist colonies in Tower Hamlets and Northern towns or sent to Islamist colonies in Scotland so as to experience real life, as opposed to the virtual life they have at the moment in their all white enclaves.

Once they have experienced real life, and changed their pathetic, apathetic attitude to their own nation and people, they will be allowed to re-enter society.

Those that refuse to wake up will be forced to wear plus fours, grow a handlebar moustache and spats so as to allow them to be targeted for abuse in the streets by chavs.

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Tue, 18 May 2010 20:19 | #

Soren - Dont f**k with the molluscs mate, they are hard as f**k.

(See, I remembered not to swear in case any ‘kids’ visiting this site are ;

1) able to read as most are unable to understand words with more than four letters in them

2) liable to regard swearing as offensive, as opposed to being the primary constituent of their conversation )

You might think you are hard mate, but you aint got an exo-skeleton made of chitin and calcium, you are just another flesh stick like the rest of your weak species.

Posted by Mollusc Army on Tue, 18 May 2010 20:25 | #

This is your only warning.

Any more mockery of molluscs on this site will result in a suicide crab being sent to your houses, who will then crawl up through the pipes that connect to your toilet and when you are sitting on the old Benghazi they will then deliver a nasty nip to your b******s.

We molluscs dont mess about.

You have been warned. 

Signed,

PMCA

The Provisional Mollusc and Crab Army.

Posted by PF on Tue, 18 May 2010 20:33 | #

Lee wrote:

Patriots will be allowed to stay, the rest will be relocated to Luton Road in Chatham, deported to the Islamist colonies in Tower Hamlets and Northern towns or sent to Islamist colonies in Scotland so as to experience real life, as opposed to the virtual life they have at the moment in their all white enclaves.

“sent to Islamist colonies in Scotland”... LOL!

Oh the bonny Islamist colonies of Scotland… is this going to be the BNP’s version of the siberian gulag?

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 18 May 2010 20:34 | #

What is this thing about Minoan mammary glands?  JB’s second and most recent adventure in the moving image featured a Penthouse Pet in the buff.  KO, ehs saw sa daken sa eht yad ehs saw nrob.

Posted by PF on Tue, 18 May 2010 20:46 | #

Mollusc Army wrote:

PMCA

The Provisional Mollusc and Crab Army.

Are you guys a spin off of Sinn Fein? Last I heard the PMCA was taking out sea food restaurants in the northern counties, trying to free all the crab, lobster and shrimp held in captivity there. But none of you could fire a gun properly with your lack of proper appendages. I should say thats probably a genetic thing and not a cultural one.

People are saying you’ve been pushed off your territory by the English Molluscan Front coming up from the south. Also, what do you guys think of Lee John Barnes?

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Tue, 18 May 2010 20:51 | #

Yes, they are.

Whilst there they will be forced to live off the land by trapping wild haggis, living off fried mars bar and having to drink three bottles of Buckfasts a day.

They will also be forced to mate with the locals, especially the militant trade union lesbians who refuse to wash and shave their legs in solidarity with the nepalese maoist yak herders of Timbuctoo. 

That will bloody teach the swines !

did ehs evah ylevol gib sretooh ?

Saw ehs a eittif ?

yna ecnahc of a neercs tohs ?

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Tue, 18 May 2010 20:52 | #

Also, what do you guys think of Lee John Barnes?

##

I think he is hot.

Posted by PF on Tue, 18 May 2010 20:58 | #

I think he is hot.

At least Bowden will know what intellectual heavyweights we are after reading this.

Meanwhile I’m still waiting for the mollusc perspective on this character LJB.

Posted by Mollusc 22xz, Northampton UK on Tue, 18 May 2010 21:02 | #

PF said…

Meanwhile I’m still waiting for the mollusc perspective on this character LJB.

....only speaking for myself here… he seems arrogant.

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Tue, 18 May 2010 21:08 | #

Its true I am.

Arrogance is the privilege of the truly beautiful.

Posted by Bill on Tue, 18 May 2010 21:09 | #

Lee wrote:

Patriots will be allowed to stay, the rest will be relocated to Luton Road in Chatham, deported to the Islamist colonies in Tower Hamlets and Northern towns or sent to Islamist colonies in Scotland so as to experience real life, as opposed to the virtual life they have at the moment in their all white enclaves

The Battle of Meriden.

They rushed to Eves Green Lane en mass to stop the unwanted new neighbours moving in.

“We don’t want them here, it is as simple as that,” said 65 year-old local farmer Lawrie Arnold, who organised the village’s resistance.

“As soon as it happened, people rang round and we started to do what we could. We live by the planning laws, why shouldn’t they? “We are going to be here for as long as it takes.”

The villagers fear it will take months to remove the travellers from the site if they are able to put in permanent facilities.

Bill says there’s hope yet.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/THEY+SHALL+NOT+PASS;+BATTLE+OF+MERIDEN::+Villagers+unite+to+stop…-a0225341730

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 18 May 2010 21:24 | #

I would say sey, Lee.  But you need to visit JB’s site and check out the sretooh or whatever in Grand Guignol.  Of course, s’ti lla rof stra ekas.  Gnihton ybburg, uoy dnatsrednu.

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Tue, 18 May 2010 21:32 | #

Good point bill, and thats why they need their noses rubbed in it - as that way the real world pops their bucolic bubble.

fi sti ton ybburg neht stahw eht tniop ni gnihctaw ti ?

I ekil ybburg.

su stnasaep syawla evah.

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 18 May 2010 21:56 | #

Lee,

Speaking as one of those middle-class chappies I must tell you I am dekcohs.  Ylpeed dekcohs.  To suggest that we high art lovers have to hire Keira Knightley rather than a, erm, suitably pneumatic scrubber from Penthouse to appear, you know, artistically and impeccable tastefully in our contributions to the Western canon is ylpeed ylpeed gnikcohs.

Anyway, all Minoans were middle-class.  Everyone knows that.

Posted by The Ghost of a Minoan on Tue, 18 May 2010 22:06 | #

I am the ghost of a Minoan, and my job was cleaning out the fish guts on the docks.

Trust me mate, the old emperor werent down there with us.

Oh no, his high nobness was up in his palace sipping wine, giving it to the last of the local virgins and plotting world domination with the meatheads with the swords and muscles in his army.

The working class Minoan front was just about to organise a strike when a bloody great tsunami hit us.

Personally, speaking as a Minoan ghost, I think Kiera Knightley is about as sexy as a pre-pubescent male teenager.

Give me huge set of hooters on a Minoan hussy and I am as happy as a Thracian with a well oiled goat.

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 18 May 2010 22:26 | #

Ouy niw, Eel.

Posted by The Ghost of the ghost of a Minoan on Tue, 18 May 2010 22:42 | #

I am the ghost of a Minoan’s ghost. Trying to help you imagine what the ghost of a ghost looks like - imagine something airy, translucent, whispy and just-barely-there, but still having presence : that is a ghost. Now imagine the ghost of that thing. Its even more whispy and translucent. I’m closest to resembling the puff of dust that comes out when you open a bag of cereal too violently.

Anyhow, I can confirm what the chap above said. It was all dreary on that island. Lots of fish guts. Keira Knightley was there in all her anorexic glory. Goats all over the fucking place. We used the antikythera mechanism to teach the goats to fish (its true purpose BTW) so that we never had to work, except to clean up the fish guts. Anixadimender came up with the idea of oiling the goats so that they would glide faster through the water, its the same principle used by swans feathers (so they say).

There were a lot of cool things back then. Nothing quite as cool as LEE JOHN BARNES though. How could there have been? We just werent ready for that. It would take a couple of thousand years to prepare the soil for that type of awesomeness. You bastards have it lucky.

Speaking of which, I have a question for Jonathan Bowden. When will the BNP be reaching out to the Ghost community, as I see you’ve already reached out the Sikhs? We should take precedence, since as ghosts, we are, of course, as is commonly known, white.

Posted by terrace on Tue, 18 May 2010 23:15 | #

I have a question for Mr Bowden.

How long can he continue to lend his name to a party that will be exposed sooner or later as a front for gangsters and thieves? Doesn’t he realise that these people are not building a viable party to challenge the establishment but a structure that can be collapsed on British nationalists at will, forever killing the last chance we’ve got to save this country and its people?

Posted by notuswind on Tue, 18 May 2010 23:37 | #

GW,

Any estimate on when your discussion with Jonathan Bowden will be made available on MR?

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 18 May 2010 23:47 | #

I have told JB that I will schedule for a week or so after the VoR broadcast.  Tom Sunic tells me it has already been recorded and will air a week today.  So a fortnight at the earliest.

According to Tom he covered culture war and JB’s art.  So we have plenty to go at.

Posted by notuswind on Wed, 19 May 2010 00:06 | #

Thank you GW.

Posted by sirrealpolitik on Wed, 19 May 2010 00:57 | #

I would second BNP FOREVER’s question:

“In what sense are you a ‘pagan’?”

JB often remarks that he is pagan, but rarely goes into specifics. I imagine from the Odal rune round his neck that there is a specificity there on some level that works for him, but I would also suspect that he, like Heidegger, sees the metaphoric manifestation of paganism or any spiritual system as somewhat arbitrary, or at least less important than following one’s spiritual instincts in general, whate’er they be. Do my suspicions come near the mark? And if so, still, out of curiosity, may I ask what metaphoric manifestations he personally prefers (beyond Odal)?

While we’re on the subject of religions: While counter-propositionality can be healthy in terms of defining ourselves within our own group, and while I think it is far more enriching to have a diversity of opinion than a diversity of ethnicities within a society (Both T. Jefferson and JB have mocked the idea of Procrustes’ bed), still, I think we are at times too caught up in the pitched battle between our pagans, levantists, and unaffiliated science-oriented empiricists. Would JB think it worthwhile to articulate a “universal” occidentalist set of values on which we can all (for the most part) agree, regardless of creed, inclination? If anyone could articulate such a thing, it would be JB.

I think it would help keep occidental culture from getting further psyched out and pulled under by the tar-baby of liberalist ideologies and praxis (guilt/absolution sociopathologies, $hoah-business, losing elections) if we could thus positively define ourselves. Perhaps form a kind of Darwinian-Heideggerian coalition, (don’t scoff! * see below).

* In the same Heidegger lecture as I alluded to above, JB points out that Nietzsche saw Darwin as a shallow optimist. But I think we can easily reconcile Nietzschean struggle with aspects of the Darwin school of evolutionary theory. I refer you to Herr Renner’s lecture on his London New Right video, in which he describes how all form (i.e. a stag’s antler) arises out of its interaction with the maelstrom of a Heraclitan war, competition, struggle for survival, etc. Darwin didn’t think that we were progressing in the liberal sense, as in one day we would be able to stop struggling, but only in this sense that forms emerged out of this process of selection through strife. Sure the dowdy sad people you see on the tube might look degenerate, but put them next to a mullosk, for instance (a real one), and even your neighborhood bump-on-a-log looks like a bmw of cutting-edge specialization. But not for long. Those who cease to use it, lose it.

BTW, I noticed in the last thread there was some talk of an interview with little ol’ me. I am flattered and I feel oh so unworthy. (And, besides, JB would be a hard act to follow). I feel like I would need to perhaps try to articulate myself here in my posts more consistently, and maybe develop an area of specialization first, before subjecting others to my vox. I have some things I could teach, insights I could lend, but in some ways I am still learning, and my confidence needs a bit more time to gestate.

Thanks for the interest, though. I have now only to deserve it.

Good luck GW and JB. Looking forward to the interview. As you can tell from the above, I have really enjoyed JB’s oratory. He has a real gift.

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 19 May 2010 01:25 | #

Sirreal,

Thank you for your thoughts.  I will talk to JB about the spiritual.

if we could thus positively define ourselves. Perhaps form a kind of Darwinian-Heideggerian coalition

There is a group at MR who have got there before you, but not very long before.  I am sure you will make yourself party to it in due course.

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Wed, 19 May 2010 09:01 | #

In the same Heidegger lecture as I alluded to above, JB points out that Nietzsche saw Darwin as a shallow optimist. But I think we can easily reconcile Nietzschean struggle with aspects of the Darwin school of evolutionary theory. I refer you to Herr Renner’s lecture on his London New Right video, in which he describes how all form (i.e. a stag’s antler) arises out of its interaction with the maelstrom of a Heraclitan war, competition, struggle for survival, etc. Darwin didn’t think that we were progressing in the liberal sense, as in one day we would be able to stop struggling, but only in this sense that forms emerged out of this process of selection through strife. Sure the dowdy sad people you see on the tube might look degenerate, but put them next to a mullosk, for instance (a real one), and even your neighborhood bump-on-a-log looks like a bmw of cutting-edge specialization. But not for long. Those who cease to use it, lose it.

= Intellectual onanism for the ideologically, and historically, constipated.

Yeah, thats just how you connect with the masses - talk about Nietzsche, Heracitan war and Darwin.

I can just imagine the scene in the local co-op with two old ladies clutching their shopping baskets before the milk counter ;

Oh hello mabel, how are you

Oh hello mildred, I am fine but me bunions hurt a bit in this cold, Bloody freezing innit.

Who you voting for in the election mabel ?

Well I was going to vote Labour cause of their rise in the pension, winter fuel payments and because of all these bleeding immigrants in the country, but I am now voting BNP.

whys that mabel ?

well mildred, the BNP are the only ones who seem to understand the Heraclitan struggle for life in the context of Darwinin theory.

Really mabel, you know how long I have been wanting to have a politician define the essential nature of existence in the universe whilst I am sitting shivering beside me one bar heater in the winter. The BNP have my vote too. As a Neitzschean and a member of the RSPB this issue of fundamnetal importance to me.

me too mildred, its far more important than council tax, food prices and housing issues. Anyway hows Bert, still got that eczma on his arse has he ?

Oh yeah, just the sort of leader nationalism needs.

Another orator in love with the sound of his own voice and who is unable to understand the simple reality of life of those who are expected to vote for us.

F****** intellectuals.

They aint worth a single wank spurt in the real world of politics.

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Wed, 19 May 2010 09:47 | #

Does this mean algae are more advanced than humans, as they have been using quantum mechanics for two billion years whilst we have just started to develop the science of it ;

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100203131356.htm

Does this mean algae are more advanced than humans ?

Posted by MOB on Wed, 19 May 2010 12:53 | #

Having read through this reliably clever MR thread which once again, as is MR’s inevitable wont to do, descends into irrelevant but witty silliness, I’m moved to wonder if once-great England has any one person advocating for its recovery with anything resembling the full-bodied intentness of Kevin MacDonald.

http://theoccidentalobserver.net/tooblog/?p=1878

Mythos plus chronos - sans artsy-fartsy.

Ask Jonathan Bowden if he thinks the article and comments at the above URL have any application whatsoever to the plight of his own country.

Posted by Lee John Barnes on Wed, 19 May 2010 13:06 | #

McDonald blames the Jews for the fall of the WASP elite - I say the WASP elite fell precisely because it was selfish, stupid, greedy and unable to absorb and promote talent from the wider white community INTO ITS RANKS eg to build a meritocracy based on promoting talent from the working class white community, Irish whites, Catholic whites, non-Ango whites - instead it promoted the interests of ethnics before it own people in some sort of perverse project to raise chosen ethnics to the level of whites - whilst abandoning any attempt to raise whites up to the level of the WASP elite.

I paraphrase here from the article ;

A crisis has developed in modern America largely because of the White-Anglo-Saxon Protestant establishment’s unwillingness, or inability, to share and improve its upper-class traditions by continuously absorbing talented and distinguished members of the white working class, non-Anglo Saxon whites, Non-Protestant whites into its privileged ranks.

Posted by BGD on Wed, 19 May 2010 13:39 | #

Posted by Lee John Barnes on May 19, 2010, 12:06 PM | #

McDonald blames the Jews for the fall of the WASP elite - I say the WASP elite fell precisely because it was selfish, stupid, greedy and unable to absorb and promote talent from the wider white community INTO ITS RANKS eg to build a meritocracy based on promoting talent from the working class white community, Irish whites, Catholic whites, non-Ango whites - instead it promoted the interests of ethnics before it own people in some sort of perverse project to raise chosen ethnics to the level of whites - whilst abandoning any attempt to raise whites up to the level of the WASP elite.

And after taking on board a harmful set of ethics as outlined by Correlli Barnett in his famous book The Collapse of British Power.

Posted by Anonym on Wed, 19 May 2010 13:49 | #

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT4SLj5l3f0

Posted by Mark Dawson on Wed, 19 May 2010 13:53 | #

Do you see the BNP being more important to the political struggle or in the awakening of the masses through populist political thought?

Posted by Traditionalist on Wed, 19 May 2010 13:58 | #

What about that other uber-intellectual Jonathan, Jonathan Meades? ( a very rare and distinguished talent in the mediocrity of the BBC, who actually justifies the licence fee on his own).

Posted by Mark Dawson on Wed, 19 May 2010 14:40 | #

slight rephrase sorry.

Do you see the BNP being more important to the political struggle or in the cultural awakening of the masses through populist political thought?

*cultural awakening ie. preparation for future conflicts/segregation into autonomous white communities

Posted by graham_lister on Wed, 19 May 2010 17:37 | #

At LBJ and his comments - I take it he has not read Leo Strauss on noble lies and deadly truths? Forget the source but isn’t there something to be taken on broad from the likes Strauss, Alinsky et al., in terms of tactics etc?

On a side note is anyone a fan of Cormac McCarthy…Blood Meridian is excellent.

Posted by Wandrin on Wed, 19 May 2010 18:45 | #

McDonald blames the Jews for the fall of the WASP elite - I say the WASP elite fell precisely because it was selfish, stupid, greedy and unable to absorb and promote talent from the wider white community INTO ITS RANKS eg to build a meritocracy based on promoting talent from the working class white community, Irish whites, Catholic whites, non-Ango whites - instead it promoted the interests of ethnics before it own people in some sort of perverse project to raise chosen ethnics to the level of whites - whilst abandoning any attempt to raise whites up to the level of the WASP elite.

They’ve done this hundreds of times over thousands of years: Anglo-Saxons, Germans, Russians, Medieval Spain, Byzantines, Ancient Egypt*.

There is nothing unique about their capture of the Anglosphere so if someone wants to understand what has happened they need to look for the common element across many nations and many centuries.

The common element is the elites of a nation, except in simple tribal societies, almost always become separate, detached and distinct from the people.

People have differing abilities so even from an equal standing start they will soon separate into leaders and led. In a simple tribal society this doesn’t matter because the gap between the top and bottom is small and the chiefs still live among and are directly connected to the indians. In more advanced societies the ruling elite soon detach and live largely separate lives. This leads to an “us” and “them” attitude within the nation which then creates a large crack in the nation. This is a normal feature in human societies. The elite and the people become like separate tribes on the same land partially in conflict with each other - a well-known example of this would be European medieval aristocracy where French, German and English aristocrats would all see themselves as having more in common with each other than with their respective peoples.

Personally i believe jews have evolved a particular group strategy based on taking advantage of the cracks in other nations, including this primary crack between the elites and the people, but their strategy is only successful because of the cracks.

A nation has as much as possible to be a collective organism. If an ant bites an individual in the toe then the whole body feels it and reacts. A nation needs to be the same.

*Anyone who believes the bible version of their time in Egypt is a fool. They went there because it was the richest nation at the time, f**ked it up and were chased out, same as always.

Posted by PF on Wed, 19 May 2010 19:12 | #

this video of a child thinking hate-thoughts…

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/05/18/doll.study.parents/index.html

Posted by MOB on Wed, 19 May 2010 20:18 | #

PF wrote:  this video of a child thinking hate-thoughts… (? incomplete sentence?)

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/05/18/doll.study.parents/index.html

It’s titled Mother reacts to daughter’s doll test.”

But wait!  That racist mother and daughter can learn to cleanse themselves!!

They can scroll down and click on the smaller video titled “Father reacts to daughter’s doll test” to see how good children raised by good parents answer the test.

The test is an impurely motivated, manipulative form of child abuse.  It’s not as if CNN and Margaret Beale Spencer didn’t already know Whites are racist scum without involving five-year olds to prove it.

Here’s Margaret:  http://www.4researchers.org/contributors/1382

Posted by BGd on Wed, 19 May 2010 21:18 | #

Posted by PF on May 19, 2010, 06:12 PM | #

this video of a child thinking hate-thoughts…

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/05/18/doll.study.parents/index.html

The article:

Po Bronson, author of NurtureShock white parents “want to give their kids this sort of post-racial future when they’re very young and they’re under the wrong conclusion that their kids are colorblind. ... It’s in the absence of messages of tolerance that they will naturally ... develop these skin preferences.”

That’s the good news at least (from an admittedly loaded study) – i.e. without the conditioning white kids are actually pretty ethnocentric.

All it needs is some form of intervention for those who have already been through the process (some form of cult member like exit counselling) and some form of inoculation for those about to.

Posted by PF on Wed, 19 May 2010 22:00 | #

The mollusc truth video which “They” don’t want “you” to “watch”:

Some social worker should ask the mollusc what color doll it prefers…

wouldn’t it be funny if the whole animal kingdom down to lophotrocozoans preferred the white one?

Posted by PM on Wed, 19 May 2010 22:24 | #

ghost of a minoan-

“Personally, speaking as a Minoan ghost, I think Kiera Knightley is about as sexy as a pre-pubescent male teenager.”

If the pre-pubescent teenage boys you have seen look like Kiera Knightley, all I can say is I wish I was a Catholic priest in your diocese.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Wed, 19 May 2010 22:52 | #

Why would the WASP elite in the US absorb non-WASPs?

n/a posts excerpts from The Chosen: The Hidden History of Admission and Exclusion at Harvard, Yale By Jerome Karabel:

In the wake of the new global position of the United States, many white Americans (though not Irish Americans), as the historian Nell Painter has noted, “renounced their traditional anglophobia (a legacy of the American Revolution and, especially, the War of 1812) to proclaim the kindredness of the English-speaking people and the natural superiority of Anglo-Saxons.”78 The ideology of Anglo- Saxonism, though hardly new, received a powerful boost from America’s entry into the ranks of imperial nations. Among the core tenets of the ideology was the conviction that, not only blacks, Native Americans, and Asians, but also the burgeoning population of Italians, Jews, Poles, Irish, and other immigrants lacked the distinctly Anglo-Saxon talent for self- governance.79

More:

Threatened by rapid urbanization and an influx of immigrants, the old New England gentry and the new industrial and financial magnates combined to establish a variety of exclusive upper-class associations during the latter decades of the nineteenth century. The exclusive country clubs of the suburbs and men’s clubs of the cities, the fashionable summer resorts, the boarding preparatory schools, and the Social Register were new upper-class institutions that gave cohesiveness and identity to this new associational aristocracy. These “patrician protective associations,” as Baltzell refers to them, were formed primarily for the purpose of sheltering the upper class from the undesirable elements flooding into the Northeastern cities. They also served to transmit upper-class cultures and assimilate newcomers. Behind the walls of these exclusive associations the upper class could maintain its cultural and ethnic homogeneity.

The inclusiveness of this new upper class was strictly limited to persons whose ascriptive characteristics and religious affiliations were the same as those of the old New England families: white and Anglo-Saxon by birth, and Protestant by baptism (WASP). The exclusive upper-class suburbs and summer resorts and country clubs explicitly kept out those without the right parentage and religion no matter what their wealth or position. Successful Jewish financiers and businessmen found the doors of the prestigious city clubs closed to them, forcing them to form their own. Indeed, the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries saw a resurgence of anti-Semitic sentiment among the WASP establishment coincidental with the rising flood tide of immigration. The new American upper class may have been more open than its European equivalents, but it was open only to those who were white, of North European stock, and Episcopalian, Presbyterian, or Congregationalist.

There very much was an effort to assimilate, if not the working class, certainly middle class American WASPs into an elite group whose intent was to preserve the mores and ethics of the American Wasp and the English speaking world generally.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Wed, 19 May 2010 22:59 | #

More:

A vice president of the Immigration Restriction League, President A. Lawrence Lowell was no friend of the Jews. But even had he been free of anti-Semitic sentiments, he would have had reason to worry about the consequences for Harvard of its growing Jewish presence on campus. For at a certain point, the arrival of the Jews would mean the departure of the sons of the Protestant upper and upper-middle classes whom Harvard most wished to enroll. Far more than an expression of cultural prejudice, Harvard’s preference for these young men—which it shared with all the other leading private colleges—was quite rational from an organization perspective. After all, who but the sons of the Protestant elite would provide the “paying customers,” the gentlemanly atmosphere, and the future leaders in business and government—not to mention generous donors—on which Harvard’s claims to preeminence ultimately rested?

For anyone who doubted the existence of a “tipping point” of Jewish enrollment beyond which the WASP elite would abandon a college, Columbia served as a sobering example. [. . .] a visitor to Princeton reported sentiment among the students that the Jews had already ruined Columbia. [. . .]

By the time Columbia finally moved vigorously to repel the “Jewish invasion,” it was far too late. Though the proportion of Jews, which had reached perhaps 40 percent, was reduced to 22 percent by 1921, the sons of the Protestant elite had abandoned Morningside Heights, never to return.

Posted by notuswind on Thu, 20 May 2010 00:03 | #

Desmond,

Why would the WASP elite in the US absorb non-WASPs?

Is that supposed to be a question for JB?

By the way, do you have any insight as to why n/a devotes so many entries to the old WASP establishment?  It sure seems like a dead issue to me.

Posted by Captainchaos on Fri, 21 May 2010 09:03 | #

I want to see GW challenge Bowden on the superiority of their respective esotericas judged by which will most readily accomplish the following:

1. The expulsion of all non-Whites and mongrels from all White lands globally.

2. The preservation of the Nordic subrace.

3. Crush the Jews.

That is Final Victory.  All else that needs fixing can be effected by cribbing off the authoritarian management of the populace as done by the NS Krauts, or non-NS NS if you like.  Just don’t call it NS, the lemmings won’t know the difference, I can assure you.

Posted by warrior crusader on Wed, 26 May 2010 10:30 | #

Still haven’t posted the fucking interview.

Crap website this is.

Posted by Lurker on Wed, 26 May 2010 12:29 | #

Clearly someone got out of bed the wrong side this morning.

I dont think the interview has actually been done yet.

Posted by notuswind on Wed, 26 May 2010 15:11 | #

GW,

As per our running disagreement, you can always ask JB about whether the roots of contemporary egalitarianism owe more to the Enlightenment or Christianity.  Either way, I think you’d get an interesting response to that question.

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 26 May 2010 15:22 | #

“That is Final Victory.  All else that needs fixing can be effected by cribbing off the authoritarian management of the populace as done by the NS Krauts, or non-NS NS if you like.  Just don’t call it NS, the lemmings won’t know the difference, I can assure you.”

Captain, you’ve be breathing the stale air in the WN arena too long. Get out in the real world. You’ll soon see the lemmings are not as lemmonic as you think they are.

Posted by Hail on Sat, 24 Sep 2011 05:23 | #

16 months later, I must ask:

Was this interview ever done?

I do not find it on the MR-Radio page.

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:45 | #

Sadly not.  After initially agreeing to it Jonathan did not respond to my contacts.  He has, I understand, suffered a breakdown in the past year.

Posted by Ford on Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:03 | #

He has, I understand, suffered a breakdown in the past year.

Too many comic books.

Posted by Graham_Lister on Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:24 | #

Self-described Nietzschean ‘superman’ is mentally unstable. Shocking news.

Is the Pope Catholic by the way?

Posted by Hail on Sun, 25 Sep 2011 03:56 | #

That is sad news. There are few better speakers than this man. I hope he gets better soon.

Posted by Hail on Sat, 07 Jan 2012 04:40 | #

Jonathan Bowden was interviewed by Richard Spence in late December 2011.

Audio here: http://www.alternativeright.com/altright-radio/the-uses-and-abuses-of-friedrich-nietzsche

54 minutes, all of them about Nietzsche.

On the “breakdown”: Mr.Bowden did sound more tired than in his talks from the mid and late 2000s that one can hear. He uncharacteristically stumbled for words a few times towards the end. If I had not read GW’s report of the above rumor in #85, though, I probably would have not thought anything abnormal. Maybe JB is in fine mental/physical health, and we can attribute his tiredness to the late hour in the UK when the interview may have been conducted (evening in Washington-DC is midnight UK time).

Posted by Hail on Sat, 07 Jan 2012 04:45 | #

Bowden was interviewed at least one other time in 2011 by Richard Spencer, I see:

http://www.alternativeright.com/altright-radio/

Posted by Jimmy Marr on Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:06 | #

I enjoyed listening. Thanks for the links, Hail.