Alexander Baron’s Downing Street e-petition

Posted by J Richards on November 22, 2011, 07:04 AM | #

Alexander Baron, please reword petition!

GW,

Baron’s petition is deeply flawed.  Bankers use “credit” as an euphemism for “loan.”  A loan implies lending something of one’s own to another, whereas bankers don’t lend anything of theirs when they provide loans as they create loans out of nothing.  Hence the reason bankers prefer the term credit.

A plain reading of Baron’s petition suggests that he wants private banks to get out of the business of loaning, which’s ridiculous as this is a central function of banks, and he wants the government to get into the business of loaning and thus banking, which’s completely unnecessary.  Additionally, since credit is a loan, debt-free credit makes no sense.

He needs to reword the petition and replace “credit creation” with “money creation.”  A sample rewording is included below.

To remove the power of money creation from private banks and place it in the hands of the Treasury so that all money for British needs is issued debt-free, and to withdraw from the Treaty of Maastricht and all other treaties that allow private banks, whether domestic or international, to affect money creation and the money supply in Britain in any way, thus providing true sovereignty to the British people.

Baron’s apparently confused.  Here’s precisely what debt-free money means: http://www.majorityrights.com/money#debt-free-money

Posted by Alexander Baron on November 22, 2011, 11:30 AM | #

Before you make ludicrous assertions about what you think I don’t know, check out my website - above - and this speech.

http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/money_question_speech.html

Thirty years ago, the Economic Research Council recommended the same thing I have petitioned for. Most money exists only as credit, ie figures in a book or blips in cyberspace. Currently, banks create all this credit, while the government mints and prints about 3%. If the government were to create the other 97% electronically, it would save enormous amounts in interest charges, and taxation would be greatly reduced.

Posted by J Richards on November 22, 2011, 02:06 PM | #

@Alexander Baron

I didn’t make any ridiculous assertions.  I know that most money’s created as credit.  But you need to understand the difference between money as credit and debt-free money.  There can’t be debt-free credit [what’s in your petition] because “credit” is an euphemism for “loan.”  How can there be debt-free loans?

You don’t want the government to create money as credit; you want it to create debt-free money.  Don’t get angry and learn the difference if you wish your petition to be taken seriously.

Posted by dc on November 22, 2011, 03:21 PM | #

vaguely related, and fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq3uVLBX6Q4&feature=player_embedded

Posted by Revolution Harry on November 22, 2011, 05:21 PM | #

Jr, Ab,

I think you’re both correct to some degree. Surely the ‘credit’ created is in two main forms. That is private credit (loans, mortgages etc) to businesses and individuals and to governments themselves. In the case of the former the intention of the petition should be to remove this function from private banks. In the latter case surely the government or government body would not be creating credit for itself but creating money with which to spend on such things as necessary infrastructure projects, even if that money is in digital form.

I’ve signed the petition myself and suggested it on several websites. However I do have a smal reservation. A conspiratorial view of history would place the Crown (the City of London Corporation) at the centre of all that ails us. Even if you don’t hold that view then it is still the case that the Crown is not elected and therefore not accountable to the people. It is surely essential that whatever body does serve the function of credit and money creation is wholly accountable.

Posted by J Richards on December 02, 2011, 01:43 PM | #

@Revolution Harry

Baron and I can’t both be correct.  Money as credit isn’t the same as debt-free money.  Why do you want commercial banking to not be a function of banks (what are banks supposed to do?)?  There’s no reason for the government to get into banking.

The one thing that needs to be taken away from banks is the power to create money.  On the topic of digital money, this is fine as long as it’s 100% backed up by paper money printed by the government as you need this to make banks maintain 100% reserves.

On your conspiratorial view that the Crown’s behind the center of all that ails us, I’d bet you can’t prove it.  The international bankers who acquired control of England from the 1600s onward aren’t of Celtic, Pictish, Roman, Angle, Saxon, Jute or Norman/Viking stock.  You should know which stock they’re from.