Posted by Maguire on Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:37 | #

James,

Sure it took the Ansari Family to fund the X-Prize, and Paul Allen to finance a team.  But it only took a compact group of whites at Rutan’s Scaled Composites to actually WIN.  Their group photo is well under 30.

And if you don’t need ‘money’ to obtain things you need, then where away the ‘cash’ requirement? 

“They really are aware at some level that they have usurped power and that fair contests would show the real winners to the world.”

‘War’ is never ‘fair’, so let’s get past that.  ‘War’ is always asymmetrical because the combatants’ strategic goals are always in conflict. 

“The idiot elites-that-be would rather free-ride technological civilization itself down.”

But there’s no requirement to ride that particular roller coaster down hill with them.  There is still opportunity to get off.  This is where individual white people changing their daily behaviors comes in. 

Maguire

Posted by James Bowery on Sat, 23 Jun 2007 17:35 | #

Of course, Maguire.  No one knows who you are around here.  You could be anyone.  My name is “James Bowery” and I’ve used it on the networks for over 3 DECADES.  Are you really that ignorant of my history—history that is available in the Usenet archives from Google—or are you trying to make an enemy of me for some reason?

Why do you think I’m writing a series of articles on “Postcivil society”?  To get people to move to the cities and become part of the next wave of pump-and-dump venture capital IPOs?

People changing their individual behavior to become more self-reliant requires that they first understand that the con game upon which they currently rely is not going to really pay off.  Yes, its messy work dealing with those citified zombie eusocial insectoid people and maybe you think its too late to do anything but write them off now but if not, then be aware your self-aggrandizing behavior is subverting my efforts to salvage some of them.

Posted by gongstar on Sat, 23 Jun 2007 23:46 | #

Come on now, James! Disease is important in this post-modern day and age? What are you: some kind of nutty believer in objective reality?

I wish I believed in “As ye sow, so shall ye reap.” But it’s generally the little people who reap what the elite sows.

Posted by GT on Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:47 | #

James,

“…its messy work dealing with those citified zombie eusocial insectoid people and maybe you think its too late to do anything but write them off now but if not, then be aware your self-aggrandizing behavior is subverting my efforts to salvage some of them.”

My two cents and question, not Maguire’s:

In my view “Engineer Mike” and “Joe Trade” must be provided with sequential, attainable tasks.  ‘Attainable’ needn’t be ‘easy,’ but cash requirements beyond their reach freezes them out from the get-go, minimizes popular interest and mass among white society’s “doers,” and can only attract – at best - a handful of remote, untrustworthy investors.

Why do you care to salvage any of the “citified zombie eusocial insectoid people” who are foundationally unable to give a shit about the technicians, tradesmen, or that small subset of hands-on engineers needed to liberate the countryside?

Posted by James Bowery on Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:06 | #

My contention is that our people are more environmentally programmable than most other people and that therefore the “citified zombie eusocial insectoid people” are NOT “foundationally” unable to give a shit about the technicians, tradesmen, or that small subset of hands-on engineers needed to liberate the countryside.

Indeed, many of the technicians, tradesmen and engineers needed are, at present, trapped inside the belly of the beast.

Yes, Engineer Mike and Joe Trade must be provided with sequential, attainable tasks.  But speaking as as a man whose father won the National Clean Plowing championship two years running using field modifications to his tractor and plow—who was then seduced into government service and whose son (me) was blocked from inheriting his grandfather’s farmland and shunted into a “high tech career”, I can tell you, first hand, what it takes to try to get “back to the land” for many of the very people you are trying to reach—because I’m doing it.  Not successfully at present because going from city slave to subsistence independence is _not_ that easy.

DON’T I KNOW IT.

But what you guys are doing is posturing.  I haven’t seen _anything_ out of you that is _really_ applicable to the plight of men trying to free themselves in the “small attainable steps” you claim are your special area of expertise.

Where is your work comparable to my work on very low capitalization algae cultivation as a feedstock for fish with very fast turn around time?

Look at the oil from algae newsgroup for my lab notes from a couple of years ago.

No, what you guys do instead is come in here and “correct” me while obviously ignoring what I’m saying so as to construct flaws in my arguments which you then debunk.  Maguire is the worst here of course, posturing most parentally.

If this is an indication of your character, I don’t care how close you are to me in the strategic view—you are NOT the kinds of people to whom I would commend the young men in my community.

Posted by danielj on Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:44 | #

It is one thing I know just from being involved for around a year.

James has been around a long fu@$ing time and it is on the record.

Although, the links Maguire posted to the “home foundry” and “home machining” stuff are pretty interesting and although I’ve never done anything like it I can’t wait to get out and do it and show others.

I’m not a coward either James, everybody knows my name and has access to my picture (and could probably find my address if they are any good at computers) and if you are truly concerned about the next generation I have a few friends who need all the information and help they can get.

Posted by James Bowery on Sun, 24 Jun 2007 22:22 | #

Daniel, I should probably write up what I’ve learned in a single place but since I don’t yet have a _real_ solution to the problem, I hesitate to do so.  These solutions tend to be wholistic and failing to include one dimension of the problem in the solution can lead to an entirely different, and ultimately ineffective, “solution”.  That said, there is one thing that virtually any widely applicable and viable approach to rapid-turn-around, small-land-area low-capitalization subsistence must include, and that is algae because of the rapid doubling time of the algae as well as the high conversion rate from solar energy to protein calories. 

One of the things you have to have is permission from your landlord to do some digging—so don’t commit to renting land from a land lord hostile to you digging up some significant area of his land.  The area you need is driven by simple thermodynamics:  Humans burn 100 watts of energy and photosynthesis is only around 6% efficient in converting solar energy to biomass—and then you have to trophic losses before humans can consume it.  That means you probably need more than 100 square meters per person to capture the food calories you need from the sun, even using algae as the autotrophic layer.

An aquaponics system for poor people designed to get them adequate protein in their diet is a good starter system for young men interested in learning some of the tricks but its not a serious solution.  A big problem with many aquaponics systems is their lack of emphasis on algae as the basis.  So many systems with exorbitant claims of output hide their real caloric sources or simply assume you can get sustainable access to some source not from the sun shining on your own system.

Then there is the problem of housing, and subsistence income.

Ultimately I suspect what you want is a quickly constructible green house for humans as well as algae-based aquaponics—a greenhome.  John Todd and the New Alchemy Institute did some work toward this back in the 1970s but seems to have failed and I haven’t been able to find out what problems killed their concept—but that, along with some early cash flow to ease the transition to full self-sufficiency (ie: pay the landlord to keep the sheriff from confiscating your greenhome), is the problem I’m working.

Posted by James Bowery on Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:42 | #

DanielJ writes: I’m not a coward either James, everybody knows my name and has access to my picture

I’m not calling Maguire a coward for failing to provide his real identity.  I’m demanding some track record of at least prior pseudonyms.  Its one thing to be pseudonymous, its another to be an anonymous sniper who changes pseudonyms.

Posted by danielj on Mon, 25 Jun 2007 01:42 | #

Ultimately I suspect what you want is a quickly constructible green house for human as well as algae-based aquaponics.

My situation as of right now is this:

I have been in my trade (power line construction) around three years after I got booted out of the military and fiddled around as a sales rep for a moulding company for a year.

I found a good white woman in San Francisco while I was traveling around after a divorce to a half-Filipino half-German that should have never been a marriage. (I wasn’t always racially aware).

While I was on track to becoming a journeyman lineman, during the divorce I dropped out of my apprenticeship and started working in a lower classification. Me and my current (beautiful white) wife are now anxiously awaiting the call from the union to get back into a power line apprenticeship, but this one in (much whiter) New England as opposed to Aztlan (the former California Republic).

Since I am covered in tattoos (unfortunately) people instinctively peg me as an idiot/neo-nazi/punk-rocker/et cetera and it tends to bias their decision in honestly assessing my ability. So, as high as my I.Q. is and as many skills as I have I have pretty much relegated myself to life as a lineman, which is completely o.k. since union hands make really good money.

Three years from now our goal is to:

A)Have my journeyman’s ticket

B)Start buying up swaths in Idaho or Montana and start building the very (constructible green house for human as well as algae-based aquaponics) house you are talking about. However, I don’t think it needs to be quickly (we will probably have a very nice fifth wheel to live in while we build it) constructed. We wanna go the whole nine yards with it, if you know what I mean.

The problems arise with my past. I never had a father, don’t know shit about small engines and have no idea about good farming/gardening. We are working on all that though and hopefully my book smarts will be enough to get me started on everything I need to know without having to resort to costly and time consuming schools.

So, in conclusion James, yes you should compile everything you know into a compendium (initially) and eventually the community can add to it (with your editorial help and possible collaboration) with the end result of an exhaustive treatment on extracting one’s self from the Belly of the Beast.

Us city kids need all the help we can. A lot of us want out (some no where near as intelligent as me - and some a tiny fraction more so) and don’t have the slightest clue about where to start.

I’m not calling Maguire a coward for failing to provide his real identity.  I’m demanding some track record of at least prior pseudonyms.  Its one thing to be pseudonymous, its another to be an anonymous sniper who changes pseudonyms.

I understand. I was more asserting myself rather than knocking anyone down - I just wrote constructed my sentence a little hastily.