The case for Inevitablism

Posted by Guessedworker on Tuesday, 30 September 2008 22:18.

Today the quality British papers have carried articles uniformly decrying the Austrian election result. As one would expect, it’s all “far right” this and “extremist” that. But I’ve been struck by how many readers commenting on the threads take issue with these sentiments. Ten or fifteen years ago, any sympathy for Germanic nationalism would have been completely beyond the pale. Eight years ago, when Haider’s Freedom Party entered government with Wolfgang Schüssel’s People’s Party, the mandarins of the EU felt bold enough to issue sanctions against Austria for voting “wrongly”. Today that is beyond the pail.

Now, I’m no Inevitablist, and should a wave of mass revulsion of the MultiCult actually sweep Europe’s nationalists into office over the next decade, my immediate concern would be that their intellectual roots are too shallow to give the required coup de grace to liberalism and all its works (and its workers). But it is impossible to explain to a man who has been confined for so very long that the first openings of the door aren’t the beginnings of his freedom. He is going to will it to be anyway.

Here are some thread comments to illustrate the point that there is a crack in the door. They are taken from the thread to a confused and rambling but PeeCee piece in the Telegraph titled “Far-Right’s showing in Austria’s election is worrying”.

To wring hands about this is just so hypocritical and, frankly, missed-the-boat journalism.

For years, the so-called Political ‘Elite(what a misnomer!)AND the MSM have combined in a cosy and sinister cartel to keep the issues of Immigration and Integration of Europe OFF the discussion list of voters ; anyone with half a brain(many of the electorate, sad to say)could see that in the event of an economic downturn, this would come back viciously to rebound, especially on the corrupt and smug political parties who can hardly be separated by a cigarette paper in their policies on BOTH of these subjects.

The vote in Austria may be tut-tutted by both media and Politicians of the centre left, but it won’t go away - neither will the increasing anger in other parts of Europe about these issues. The day of the Soft-left is coming to an end, caused in no small way by their stupid and unsustainable policies of Lending to those who cannot afford to repay loans but who can be relied on to vote for them ; Clinton began this policy by repealing the Glass-Steaghal Act in 99, and the financial melt-down currently rocking the world is a direct result of this - Doubtless, Democrat-leaning media in both the USA & UK will try to whitewash this, but the fact remains.

As times become harder and jobs scarcer, the simmering resentment over unchecked Immigration will turn and devour the Left ; the future looks increasingly frightening and it is ALL the fault of Liberal woolly thinking.

Posted by King Canute on September 30, 2008 3:25 AM

Why should it be sinister that people want an end to uncontrolled economic migration to their corner of the globe?

It seems to be a point that eludes the vast majority of politicians and the MSM.
Posted by Jabba the Cat on September 30, 2008 7:25 AM

Nationalism is a perfectly logical reaction to counter the EU liberal Lib/Lab/Con communism.

It’s coming to a place near you, but you still don’t get it!
Posted by Rocket Scientist on September 30, 2008 7:29 AM

austrians will always tell you -hitler -was a german and beethoven an austrian, from what i hear from friends in austria the would welcome the nazi party under a different name. this is because of immigration but like the elephant in the room as in u.k. no one dare mention it,i was told by friends the fear is losing their national character as a people and high taxes to pay for benefits for the immigrants.sounds familiar?.
Posted by londoner432 on September 30, 2008 8:20 AM

The ordinary Austrians are at last thinking and voting for themselves, rather than following the controlled media propaganda. TV is less popular in Austria.

But have WE the knowledge, vision and courage to brake the disasterous LibLabCON?
Posted by Ollamh Fodhla, Northumberland on September 30, 2008 8:23 AM

I’m rather tired of these attacks on Austria whenever the people decide that they are tired of the slimy old liberal parties and vote for what is called the “far right”. The incessant chanting of “Nazi, Nazi” as a technique to deny democracy is itself far more sinister than anything I have heard about these Austrian parties. Attempts to frighten us all… what are we supposed to be afraid of? That Austria will invade Britain?

This sickening scare-mongering must stop. The one thing we can be sure of, with these Austrian parties, is that they believe their principles enough to endure this appalling abuse. The same cannot be said of the other politicians.
Posted by Roger on September 30, 2008 8:29 AM

Just wait until the German nation get a chance to vote next year! Recent conversations in Berlin leave me in no doubt they they, too, will look towards the right for their next political episode. It will happen here too! And the longer the current “class” of social/liberalists cling on to their waning power the further will be the lurch. And do you know, I cannot say that I would be entirely disappointed if such an eventuality came to pass!
Posted by Terry on September 30, 2008 8:35 AM

People aee their countries being dissolved in front of them by sub-Marxists but anyone opposed to control by the EU and mass immigration is an ‘extremist’.

That tactic is nearly over as a method of silencing dissent.
Posted by Mike Newland on September 30, 2008 8:40 AM

The far Right are advancing because when people feel things are not going well and there is a need to retrench they instinctively reject socialism and welfare to categories they feel are peripheral or outside their real society - immigrant minorities and the like.

This is surely a kind of Occam’s Razor political sense instinctive, and tribal, within human populations in self-defence.

This is back to basics, about the core ‘us’ thinking, from citizens. Nobody said it had to be unselfish or nice. It is a desire to get back to perceived core values and to stop embracing alien mores and people - where they are perceived to associate with social ills.
Posted by simon coulter on September 30, 2008 9:31 AM

“Far right’s showing is worrying”. So runs this headline above. I ask for whom is this election result so worrying? It doesn’t surprise or bother me for instance and, apart from British liberals and psuedo-democrats, I wonder why you bothered to address the question of a democratic choice by the people of Austria being a cause for worry on you part?

“Far Right” seems to bother you, but that is simply your description of a party that a lot of people obviously support. Are most of those Austrians not capable of deciding who or what to vote for? If you were to advise them who to vote for, which party would that be and why?

It seems to me that Austrians have had a gutful of existing parties and their lack of ability to address their concerns. The old parties of Austria are too pro-EU; they ignore pleas to curb their enthusiasm for Brussels and to look after Austrian affairs instead. Is this where the voters went wrong?

It would be a good thing if we voted for something very different to the rubbish on offer right now. If we voted for something different would you and others in the media be able to tell us we were wrong?

So what is the problem with right-wing politics? Let’s have this debate because I consider myself to be a right oriented voter. I distrust all liberal left interpretations of what is good for me and good for the rest of mankind. I go so far as to state that I regards left-wing politics to be on the side of unintentional evil.

It was not a right-wing party in Britain or Austria that committed troops to two wars in the Middle East or assisted in the debacle in Georgia recently. It was not a right-wing party that advocated taxing the British worker to hell and back so that his pitiful earnings could be redistributed to more worthy causes to be decided by one man with a moral compass.

If British and Austrian institutions are failing to the point where people are desperate for change and relief, then none of this disaster is due to right-wing parties of any sort. In fact, name the right-wing parties you have in mind that we as voters should avoid. Name them!

All we know of right-wing politics is what its enemies and detractors tell us through their constant propaganda. It’s a good thing the Austrian voters called a halt whatever the cost. We should do the same: it can’t get worse than what we have with left-wing ideologues and charlatans in charge of everything.
Posted by Greville Warwick on September 30, 2008 9:32 AM

Why is the sensible and long overdue reaction of indigenous people worrying? Rather it should be source of pride that some of our fellow Europeans have at last come to their senses. Can it happen here? Let us hope so. In the meantime REJOICE, REJOICE, REJOICE.
Posted by David - the original! on September 30, 2008 9:40 AM

I wish we had the guts to stand up for our rights.
Posted by Reg on September 30, 2008 9:40 AM

It’s interesting that parties are called “democratic” when they offer a programme reflecting the concerns and wishes of a certain constituency, except when that programme involves actually taking steps to counter the (failed) consensus of globalisation, when they are called “populist”.

I’m not saying I agree with the FPÖ, but I am saying that spouting the usual “startled families looked on in outrage” journalism and cosying up to a “social democratic/centre-right” political class that is, let’s face it, entirely discredited, is actually providing a catalyst for extremism. If you want democracy (and personally I think Austria should abolish it and restore the Habsburgs), you must expect that people will vote according to how they feel, not how you think they ought to feel. And people are very tired of being preached and lied at by holier-than-thou politicians.
Posted by Xan on September 30, 2008 9:51 AM

So why is this worrying? It only goes to prove that if these so called mainstream parties who pretend to represent their fellow countrymen, ignore the electorate, then the people will support a party that will address those concerns. People across the European continent are fed up with arrogant socialists running their lives, dictating to them what is good for them, stealing their money ‘for the common good’, and allowing unlimited numbers of foreigners to settle in their lands in the name of tolerance, multiculturalism, post - colonial guilt or whatever other nice term you could think of, with absolutely no integration on the part of these foreigners, and with the constant belief on the part of the immigrants that they have a right to be in the host country, whose people were not in the first place consulted on whether or not they wanted their culture and way of life undermined in such a way. No, indeed this is not worrying, but plain logical. In fact I do recall the lyrics to a song by a band whose country happens to be one of the most socialist and ‘tolerant’ in Europe - ‘the history book on the shelf, is always repeating itself’.
Posted by Anthony on September 30, 2008 9:53 AM

The swing to the right is a function of the democratic process.

The basis of this article is wrong. Why is this swing worrying? Worrying to the PC liberals who got the ‘wrong’ result?

Unless our PC brigade redoubles its efforts we may see the same thing here.

If they are that worried, how about connecting with the concerns of the electorate, which happen to include national identity and mass immigration?

Posted by patriot on September 30, 2008 10:00 AM

Thank heavens the fascist consensus formed by the EU is starting to break down in Europe and patriotic parties are starting to make headway
We need to break the Lab/Con/Lib/BBC coalition here also and provide support for the native people of these islands. Repatriation of the non indigenous must take place to reduce the population on this overcrowded and soon to be impoverished islands. First will come the civil conflict as occurs in all parts of the world where there are ethnic and religious differences.
Posted by James on September 30, 2008 10:04 AM

This is a lesson which might usefully be learnt by the politicians in Britain.
“For decades, Austria was run by a political cartel of the “Reds” (Social Democrats) and “Blacks” (the Christian Democrats, known as the People’s Party). They alternated in power, dividing up jobs in public service and business between them.”
Substitute
“For decades, Britain has been run by a political cartel of the “Reds” (Labour) and “Blues” (Tories). They alternated in power, dividing up jobs in public service and business between them.”
and what is the difference?
In many countries the electorate are fed up with the ruling political parties and are looking for change and Britain is no exception. The existing parties collude to ignore issues of importance to the electorate, such as emigration, pander to every minority group and ignore the majorities.
When the BNP, start to win elections, they simply wring their hands in horror and decide to ignore them instead of asking “Why is this happening”.
With the EU having more and more say in our lives, and individuals having progressively less influence, this is the only way to rebel. I’ll vote for UKIP, but in the future I envisage there will be more and more people prepared to vote for the BNP. It’s time the Tories grasped the nettle and advocated withdrawal from the EU.
Posted by Brian E on September 30, 2008 10:08 AM

The only surprise is that it took so long.
The Northern league in Italy have started to stand their ground and several German areas are strongly resisting the islamization of their country.
The UK will follow but will it be too late?
Posted by F. and U. Adenufyet on September 30, 2008 10:21 AM

Immigration is high on the agenda on so many websites but never discussed in the media or mainstream newspapers. When people feel threatened, as they do now, a vote for the extreme right is their only hope. Political parties in the UK need to wake up and look around Britain to see what is happening to our country. We are suffering under a government who allowed unbridled immigration regardless of consequences and remain deaf to our concerns.
Posted by Tommo on September 30, 2008 10:52 AM

The venal collusion of the three liberal socialist parties lib/lab/con have brought this upon themselves,they have done nothing to make us feel proud of Britain and our heritage.All they have done is swamped our shores with aliens from third world countries.Its about time the far right gave us back our country,I say if this spreads throughout Europe, then Britain will embrace it this time.
Posted by banachech on September 30, 2008 11:07 AM

Sounds exactly what we need here. A good dollop of “far-rightism”. The liberal left have had their chance and have only succeeded in turning us into an industrial wasteland. However, now that we are jobless and our savings and pensions are vanishing we can at least take pride in the multi-cultural shangri-La that is modern Britain. BNP? Some other “far-right” party? You bet. They can’t be any worse than the shower of crooks, thieves and liars that have run the country for the last 50 years!
Posted by Mark on September 30, 2008 11:09 AM

Not sure how much credence to give to an article which describes Haider as leader of the Freedom Party and Strache as leader of the Alliance (BZOe) when in fact it’s the other way round.
How is “far Right” defined ? In this country anything much to the right of the left of the Labour Party which is the starting point for the cosy liberalish-leftish elite consensus which is probably the home of this writer as of so many other media commentators.
Yet the interesting thing is that Haider has since 1999 been Governor of Carinthia, re-elected in 2004 and with his party getting almost 40% of the vote in that province on Sunday, bucking the usual “anti-incumbent” trend. So, more than just a protest figure, he must be doing something right as a practical politician affecting people’s daily lives. But you won’t read anything about that in the handwringing articles about Sunday’s election.
Posted by Nicholas H on September 30, 2008 11:38 AM

Encouraging to see people who know little or nothing about Austria enjoying their half yearly bout of Nazi hysteria.

To describe the FPO and the BZO as far right I find ludicrous. While there is no doubt that in the depths of the FPO there are Neo Nazi sympathizers, the policies presented in the election campaign were decidedly pro worker:

1) On the immigration issue it is true that the FPO would like to reassert the position prior to joining the EC, namely that Austrian citizens have a prior claim to state resources over foreign residents. As far as immigration goes, Austria has “enjoyed” massive immigration over the past years, and the majority of the population are fed up with it. Now one can be for or against such a stance, but Neo Nazi it is not.

The two main planks or the FPO’s campaign were:
a) a protest against the weak high inflation Austria has suffered since the introdution of the Euro and the ensuing problem of poverty and debt amongst low paid families and
b) a protest against the fundamental lack of democracy in the EU and the refusal of the current Austrian govt as a net payer to Brussels to lobby aggressively in Austria’s interests, in the way Margaret Thatcher did.
Again, one can object to these policies, but they are not far right.

THe BZO is in my estimation simply a collection of career oriented oppurtunists who want to go along to get along. Carinthia, which is ruled by the BZO, has scarcely changed since Haider took over.

What the Austrian election does show, is that the EU is losing support at an astonishing rate and that the desire for national soverignty and self determination, for good or ill, is alive and kickinig in Austria.
Posted by huw on September 30, 2008 11:39 AM

This is like a breath of fresh air.Let’s hope the same thing happens here - and quickly too.
It’s called “patriotism” and is something of which one should be proud.
To slowly see your country be drained away by foreigners is agony - public utilities to the French - Banks to all and sundry.Wonderful news.Well done,Austria.
Here they’ve all been brainwashed and are the victims of censorship and lethargy - prefering to go on holiday and get drunk.

Posted by james allen on September 30, 2008 12:13 PM

You say ‘far-right’s showing in Austria’s election is worrying’. I say yes it probable does worry the Globalists who are insistent on destroying nationalism in order to pursue a policy of Global Government through destroying sovereignty. Good for the Austrians.
Posted by chris on September 30, 2008 12:14 PM

Far right? I suppose the author’s definition of this emotive and inaccurate term is anyone who doesn’t see the world through the distorting and treacherous prism of what I call the ‘Far Left’, and their propaganda arm, Al Beebera. Nationalism is a dirty word to be suppressed by the Liberal-Politcal ‘elite’, whereas in truth it is a commendable and entirely natural emotion - love of your country, your family and your own. The Euro-Left who have sought to paint us all as little Englanders and their Continental equivalents, have forced their criminal policies on us but have entirely failed to notice the increasing resentment felt by the indigenous Europeans being forced to accept, and pay taxes for the upkeep of aliens who wish to subvert their culture, on the flimsy pretext of votes for the traitors who invited them. This was a state of affairs which was bound to blow up, and the attenpts by the British mainstream parties for example, to bully the electorate into regarding the BNP as Nazis, and illegally preventing the propagation of their policies is counter-productive to the point of lunacy.
Another poster referred to the ‘elephant in the room’ - it is not so much an elephant, but a herd, and we have ignored them so long that we are neck deep in dung, and wondering what to do next.
A good start would be to open the doors, let the smell out, reason in, and discussion to take the place of suppression - or we are doomed.
Posted by 45govt on September 30, 2008 12:28 PM

Why do journalists sitting in the comfortable middle ground of politics never understand? Why are they always surprised by the appeal of ‘extremist’ political parties?

When people feel ignored, they want to make themselves heard.

1. Europe has become complacent, arrogant and self-righteous. It treats those with different views with pomposity and condescension. They ignore the NO vote by renaming a document and pretend the Irish don’t know what they really want.

They have become completely detached from those they rule over (sorry, represent.)

2. The demise of the Nation State was never going to come about quietly. It is a people’s heritage, their culture ... for many, as much a part of them as religion is.

3. Contradictions in policy lead to national confusion: we are all one in Europe, a nice multicultural club, no borders, shared values ... hugs all round. But elsewhere, we see the opposite being implemented by the same Europhiles: in UK devolution and the rise of the SNP, Belgium almost ceases to be, clapping Europeans watch the USSR break up, Yugoslavia disintegrates into different countries.

Where else are people expected to go when the non-extreme parties are just a great meaningless concensus?
Posted by dai on September 30, 2008 12:28 PM

Firstly, the FPO is not the ‘far right’ which is a label the MSM & BBC loves to apply to any party that threatens the centrist status quo. The FPO has much the same aims in Austria as most correspondents to the DT have for Britain.
Secondly, Austrians have the right to vote for whomsoever they think will represent their interests most strongly, regardless of the kneejerk reactions of people in other countries. Haider naturally attracts the votes of those who are disillusioned with the cosy, self-serving political system, and who hate the PC assumption of a multicultural society obeying the EU’s integrationist dictates; this is far from being xenophobic. Austrians wish to be able to determine their own future and not be a prey to the same waves of immigration that have undermined other western countries.
That should ring some bells for us over here.
Posted by jaytt on September 30, 2008 12:29 PM

The right on the march what’s wrong with that go luck to them people are waking up to the massive con that the EU is, whats wrong with a party that wants to limit immigration and to stop more of its countries rights been taking away via the EU. Why won’t this government hold a ref on the Libson Treaty were this Labour government is handing large ammounts of law over to the EU without any say from the people it is suppose to represent. Go luck to Austria and to the so called far right.
Posted by Steve. Norfolk on September 30, 2008 12:31 PM

What’s the problem here? Why is it that whenever citizens exercise their democratic right to vote in the ‘wrong’ way it’s a worry for bleeding heart softies?
Perhaps if our own mainstream politicians stopped lying & acting like jellyfish & actually stood up for this country they might win back some voters. Come the next election I’m sorely tempted to vote BNP - and I NEVER ever thought I’d think that.
Posted by Standav on September 30, 2008 12:38 PM

As the messages filter through today I note a very positive leaning towards the Austrian voters who dared to defy the concensus parties and to vote for a modicum of sanity. I say sanity because to seek to defend one’s own concerns are the ultimate expression of sanity. To perversely support the alien and the unknown for some crazy, untested ideological reason must be the very expression of madness and a desire for self-destruction.

Right-wing bogymen and visions of hell on earth await us because we are not all card carrying members of the Labour Party or one of the Austrian equivalents. This vision of hell is very convenient because it needs no proof and so many have been frightened even to question it.

Yet today we see that if there is a man-made hell on earth it has been and is being created by the so-called liberal-Left parties of western Europe.

We of the Right have been kept out of the loop of media access and denied participation in anything at all. This being so, who do you expect us to vote for and to encourage others to vote for?

If the pitiless Left dished it out for so long, can’t it be understood why the thirst for revenge is so strong and resurgent? The Left gave us no breaks: just propaganda, political-correctness and lies.

The Left had its own way in all things and destroyed everything they touched. Let them be despised, removed and left to wither and rot while others get on with salvaging what’s left and discarding the rest. We have been left no other option and the voters of Austria spotted this as well. So stop complaining because it’s our turn.
Posted by Greville Warwick on September 30, 2008 12:52 PM

I think that your article should have been named “Far-Right’s showing in Austria’s election is entirely predictable”. Unfortunately, none of the politicians reflect people’s concerns, especially around immigration and the slow Islamification of the Europe, and so people are going to extremes to get their voices heard.

Personally, I am encouraged by this as maybe there is a chance for government to do what people want them to do. Given half a chance, I am going to vote BNP at the next election and I am one of those people who might even end up suffering under them. But do you know what? I am going to risk it as I am so damn fed up with the sodding immigrants.
Posted by Adrian on September 30, 2008 1:31 PM

The Austrians led the fight against the islamisation of Europe in the seventeenth century, turning the tide of the Ottoman invasion at the very gates of Vienna. This led to the flourishing of arts and sciences in the following century. Visit Austria now and see the mean streets of Vienna, Linz, Graz etc overrun by Balkan, African and Asian immigrants. The people of Austria have been betrayed by the political establishment. The tide is turning there and one can hope that we will follow their lead!
Posted by trubrit on September 30, 2008 1:40 PM

What is wonderful about the DT is not the second rate ramblings of its paid journalists, but the fact that is provides its well informed readership to exchange contrary views on the topics on hand.

I hope this may long continue
Posted by huw on September 30, 2008 1:50 PM

Do others share my despair at ever finding balanced reporting on political issues.I dont expect to find balance in reports in the Guardian or on the BBC but I had hoped it would be possible in the Telegraph.This is clearly not the case as demonstrated by this disgracefully worded article.I know nothing of Austrian politics but I dont believe that the right-wing parties are anything like what is implied by Mr. Lucas.The gentleman pictured certainly dosnt appear to be “bull necked” or the shaven-headed ,tatooed thug type often portrayed by the media.

Can someone please explain to me why a person with right of centre views is never described as such. They are always far-right, extreme right or fascist and the implication being that they are one step removed from being Hitler.Left wingers on the other hand are usually seen by the media as being left of centre or liberal.They are never portrayed as being extreme or one step away from being Stalin or Pol Pot.
As far as I am concerned the bulk of the problems we see today in schools , on the streets and in society in general are due to the liberal,left wing policies pursued for many years.These problems will not be addressed, Mr. Cameron,by a centre party attempting to be all things to all men.To me centre means sitting on the fence and never resolving problems.All my adult life I have voted Conservative but if I am to do so in the future I need to see so-called old fashioned conservative policies being pursued.
Posted by Ron Fort on September 30, 2008 2:00 PM

Everyone in the world belongs to one tribe or another and when the very survival of the tribe, its customs and its culture come under threat it will come together to defend its existence in any way it can, and should a political party come along which promises to represent the tribe and safeguard its culture and traditions above all else then the tribe will flock to that parties banner.

In Britain we have endured over thirty years of politically correct vandalism against our culture and our people, we have suffered positive discrimination, forced integration and hundreds of other pieces of dictatorial legislation aimed at cowing us into submission. If the far right is the only political party that are prepared to stop the rot then so be it, after all how much worse off can we be and I suppose the only people who need to worry are the far left communists?

Any government, which attempts to socially engineer a population by force, is actually going against the forces of nature and nature is a very formidable force. Did Iraq and Afghanistan teach our politicians nothing?
Posted by Cromwell on September 30, 2008 2:27 PM

Well done Austria.

So its ok to be a loony marxist or a member of the vile communist party. Mention your concerns regarding immigration, failed multiculteralism and death of your own national identity and culture and you are a racist, bigot and baby eater.

All scaremongering and propoganda from the mainstream parties and lefty media.

Im glad right wing politics is making a come back. About time too.
Posted by Paul J H on September 30, 2008 2:35 PM

Why are people who love their country always described as “Far Right”? Can we therefore assume that the “Far Left” hate their country? And why does everyone describe the BNP as “Far Right”, as the bulk of their policies, would normally be described as “Left Wing”. For example, their employment policies are reminiscent of good old fashioned Trade Unionism and there is absolutely nothing to associate them with the right wing free enterprise culture.
Personally, I have always found it difficult to find any difference between the extreme left and the extreme right! Hitler is said to be extreme right, Stalin extreme left - both were equally nasty and I can’t find any significant differences between their policies.
But the fact remains that because of collusion by the established parties in Europe, people are beginning to feel that they are living under a dictatorship, and the only way out is to vote for a party, whatever its aims, as long as it is not part of the establishment.

Contrast this with the United States, where they still have democracy. As was shown in yesterday’s vote, the President is not all powerful. As was also shown, neither are the party leaders. When you hear a member of the House of Representatives say that he has received hundreds of e-mails from electors who are opposed to the bail out, and that he must take notice of his electors you realise that we live in a different world.
If I e-mailed my MP, I’d be lucky to get a reply from his secretary, and it would be a miracle if he took any notice of it! “What - listen to the electors; You must be joking. Whatever next?”
It is this attitude which one day will bring the extremist parties into power, something that is clearly likely to happen in Britain rather than America.
Posted by Brian E on September 30, 2008 2:47 PM

“Imagine that Britain was governed by a Tory-Labour coalition”

Why imagine? Cameron and Osborne have already said they will change nothing if elected, so anyone wanting change will have to vote away from te established duopoly.

On the grounds that anyone who is not part of the cosy stich-up is classed as “Extreme Right Wing” I would estimate that over half the population of the country fit that description; certainly most of the 40% who will not vote because there is no one speaking for them.
Posted by MarkE on September 30, 2008 3:08 PM

I must say that I find it very interesting that the writer of the article has virtually NO support from the posters on this site. Bearing in mind that this is the DT (not known for extreme right wing views) that is a very interesting thing. If the readers of the DT are so fed up with the normal far left parties like the Bottler’s Scottish Socialist party or even Dave’s slightly less left party, just think what the less intelligent who read tabloids think! It looks as though the patriotic and brave little BNP may give the other parties a good run for their money!
Posted by David - the original! on September 30, 2008 3:14 PM

Tags: European Nationalism

Comments:

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:07 | #

One of the letter-writers called the Austrian election result a breath of fresh air. So it was, and so are all these letters: a breath of fresh air, filling grateful lungs! I just read every one of them. Pure oxygen! Thank you for posting this. To call these letters delightful wouldn’t do them justice. What they are is soul-satisfying.

Posted by Diamed on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:14 | #

It’s not enough. Popular opinion polls range from 60-80% opposed to immigration and this kind of venting against immigration is always happening, but nothing is ever done about it.

Until people are willing to make immigration their priority, over the economy, over religion, over ‘freedom’, over any other issue the politicians will continue to import foreigners while we endlessly complain but keep voting them in.

I’m afraid having the majority of people anti-immigrant does nothing to bring an anti-immigrant party to power. Remember the Austrian government will still not actually consist of these anti-immigrant parties and they’ll be kept out by the standard cordonne sanataire. Le Pen got 2nd in the french election but that didn’t help any either.

Posted by Englander on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:41 | #

I remember commenting not so long ago that the replies to these mainstream media stories were becoming more and more in line with nationalist sentiment, but even since then the swing seems to have been even sharper. It’s difficult to even find any negativity within the comments on all of the telegraph stories I have read relating to this Austrian election result. There really is a wide gulf between what the journalist has written and what the reading public seem to believe, and I see no reason to believe that these aren’t mostly just normal folk of the type who make use of the popular media available to them.

Posted by cladrastis on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:45 | #

their intellectual roots are too shallow to give the required coup de grace to liberalism and all its works

In this emerging time of crisis, we need more unified doctrines, pamphlets, and solutions - and all of these should take European sociobiological constraints into account. Much of the material is already out there, but much like Marx’s Communist Manifesto, it needs to be compiled into something more streamlined and collected - and distributed widely. The bailout plan on the Hill indicates that people are becoming more and more fed up with the status quo. The people want solutions, and we should help them find those solutions.

Posted by Tired of Idiots on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:47 | #

Get the Muslims out of Europe now! It will be the greatest achievement. You must act now—demand they either assimilate (which they wont) or leave. If you make it so comfy and hospitable for them, of course they are going to come by the millions. No one wants to touch on Islam Supremacy, especially not Europe, epitome of all things liberal. This is not a racial issue, but a cultural one.

Stand up brave white men and fight for your culture, you ancestral homeland. Call your people (that want to go) home (to Europe only) and show them the virtues of a homogeneous nation. A nation with pork and flowing female hair and One Language. Teach them diversity is a choice, not mandatory. Be fucking men, and say GET OUT OF EUROPE NOW! With peace and understanding in your hearts.

Will you continue to cower?

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 01:10 | #

“This is not a racial issue, but a cultural one.” (—Tired of Idiots)

It’s a racial one, sugar.

Posted by Tired of Idiots on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 01:25 | #

It’s a racial one, sugar.

It just has to be, doesn’t it? Is it not more effective to take the cultural standpoint? It is, perhaps, less polarizing and without the default defense of one’s tolerance of other races, as the good world instills.

See, when one uses the Cultural Angle, it makes it less personal. Present the food in the most attractive way, and even the bursting full will have to take a bite. Sometimes you have to be slippery.

Posted by Catfish LeRoy on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 01:26 | #

Absolutely right, Fred. This is one of those rare, morale-boosting victories that are only going to become MORE frequent in the very near future. Great post, GW: Like a VisMin at MacDonald’s, “I’m LUVIN’ it!”

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 01:28 | #

It has to be stated explicitly that it’s racial. The other side can get around any argument for “culture” that doesn’t include race. They can’t get around race, which is why they go ballistic the instant it’s so much as mentioned.

Posted by Captainchaos on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 01:56 | #

“The other side can get around any argument for “culture” that doesn’t include race.” - Fred Scrooby

That’s why paleocons are utterly impotent in the fight to save even their culture. No White race, no Western culture. Many of them want their people to survive, but they don’t even have the stones to say it on the INTERNET unless someone kicks them in the ass first.

Just once I would like to see old man Buchanan say EXPLICITLY that he wants his race to survive.

Posted by Tired of Idiots on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 01:58 | #

Which, of course, leaves room for white supremacy, right? And here, for a brief moment, I thought it might not have been personal. Alas.

Oh, yeah, and what did you all do today to advance WN? What mustard seed did you plant? Don’t tell me not using the Paki’s kettle water to make your pot noodle.

Posted by Captainchaos on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 02:26 | #

“Which, of course, leaves room for white supremacy, right?” - Tired of Idiots

If we separate from them we can’t reign supreme over them now can we?

There are 200 million people of European descent on the North American contintent - we are not going anywhere. If a homeland for Whites only is to be carved out vis-a-vis us it wil happen right here. Sorry to break that to you.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 02:54 | #

Tires of Idiots, does it hurt to be constantly put in your place? Every five minutes is a lot for a person to endure, no? Why don’t you give up and get pregnant, barefoot, and back in the kitchen, hun?

Posted by Captainchaos on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 03:30 | #

“Why don’t you give up and get pregnant, barefoot, and back in the kitchen, hun?” - Fred Scrooby

Tired of Idiots will eventually succumb to the virility of the White Man and have some “mustard seeds” planted in her.

Posted by torgrim on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 06:01 | #

There are 200 million people of European descent on the North American continent-we are not going anywhere.
If a homeland for Whites only is to be carved out vis-a-vis us it will happen right here. Sorry to break that to you.—CaptainChaos

Thanks right Tired. Bet on it, or don’t…You see a lot of our ancestors are buried here. They built this place and they extended the life carrying capacity for millions, here and the rest of the world.
As I mentioned before, you really do not know of who you demean, you are really, uneducated when it comes to the White Man.

Posted by Young Nationalist on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 06:01 | #

How does this affect WNs in North America? Certainly this is good news, very good news. But what lesson(s) can US WNs take from it?

The Paleocons have completely dropped the ball on the issue of race and immigration. Those lily-livered intellectuals deem themselves too high-falutin’ to dirty themselves wading about in the muck and mire of practical politics. And that is precisely why they have become irrelevant. In a war, you don’t send betweeded academics to do your fighting for you. They are more likely to engage the enemy in a lively debate on the finer points of Aristotle’s On Politics, than to shoot him dead and send his corpse back to Mexico City, Lagos, Shanghai, Washington DC, or wherever.

Posted by Copyeditor on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 06:28 | #

Small point…

GW: “Today that is beyond the pail.”

It’s actually “beyond the PALE,” which comes from the Pale of Settlement in Eastern Europe and Russia where Jews were legally confined (like the terrible plague which they are) by the Czarist government in order to keep them from doing widespread damage to and exploiting the native populace.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 07:07 | #

The word pale derives ultimately from the Latin word palus, meaning stake. (Palisade is derived from the same root.) From this derivation came the figurative meaning of ‘boundary’, and the concept of a pale as an area within which local laws were valid. The phrase “beyond the pale” derives from this meaning, referring originally to the English Pale in Ireland.

Posted by Tired of Idiots on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 10:02 | #

No one has put me in my place, and definitely not you—the least capable.

If we separate from them we can’t reign supreme over them now can we?

There are 200 million people of European descent on the North American contintent [sic] - we are not going anywhere. If a homeland for Whites only is to be carved out vis-a-vis us it wil [sic] happen right here. Sorry to break that to you.

I see. A country also built on the backs of blacks, at the expense of Native Americans. Laughable. I think you’re afraid of Europe. Europe will eat you alive and shit you out like it does daily to idiots.

They are more likely to engage the enemy in a lively debate on the finer points of Aristotle’s On Politics, than to shoot him dead and send his corpse back to Mexico City, Lagos, Shanghai, Washington DC, or wherever.

Violent. Idiotic. Typical failed life thinking.

Tired of Idiots will eventually succumb to the virility of the White Man and have some “mustard seeds” planted in her.

Yes, I await the day. He won’t be a WN.

Posted by Othelma_Jr on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 10:55 | #

In this emerging time of crisis, we need more unified doctrines, pamphlets, and solutions - and all of these should take European sociobiological constraints into account. Much of the material is already out there, but much like Marx’s Communist Manifesto, it needs to be compiled into something more streamlined and collected - and distributed widely. The bailout plan on the Hill indicates that people are becoming more and more fed up with the status quo. The people want solutions, and we should help them find those solutions.

If ones needs unified doctrines look no further then Yockey or Evola!

Both did write some pamphlete sized types stuff so it is out there:

The Francis Parker Yockey Collection (I am thinking Proclamatin of London here!)

Baron Julius Evola - Traditionalist Visoinary

Also American Free Press is good to hand out as well…

Heck even an Ed Steele ‘nickel rant’ may be good.

Posted by Bill on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:19 | #

Right from the first moment of awareness of immigration into this country, (but not then aware of its purpose and intentions) I instinctively thought endless immigration will not be tolerated by the mass of the British people. I’m going back a few years here.

Then came my quest for answers and my awakening, only to see that the onslaught of Britain continued unabated with practically no resistance, what was going on? How could it be? The phrase all the rage during this period was, why wasn’t anyone talking about the elephant in the Room? (seems it was light years ago)

Things have moved on, as they say. Trouble is with me, and I suspect most commenting, is that we find ourselves repeating ourselves over and over. (With me it is to address the chance visitor who like me, is searching for answers) but I’m not revisiting here all of the reasons why there was no opposition to the liberal consensus of immigration – I’m getting tired of repeating myself.

My guiding light in life is Mother Nature; whenever sorting out a human problem it is to nature I seek the answers. I could digress here at length about how my dog, every day without fail, gives out an ear piercing yell every time the nearby resident squirrel helps himself to the nuts on the bird table. My dog has never formally met squirrel Nutkin, they have never been introduced, but when let out, my dog races from 0-60 in two seconds before launching himself at the unwelcome guest, who nimbly skips up and away in a trice - yelling I’ll be back! No matter how much I try and explain to my quivering hound that Nutkin only wants his breakfast - it makes no difference, my dog hates this squirrels presence on it’s territory, it’s a blot on my dog’s landscape and nothing I say or do, is ever going to change my dog’s mind.

It’s official then! The Lib/Lab/Con is but one harmonious club. Yesterday, at the Conservative party conference, its leader David Cameron, in a dramatic gesture threw away his prepared speech for the day and declared from now on he would be Mr. Gravitas, for he and his party would all join hands to sort out the economic crisis. In other words, due to the World’s economic breakdown, his party was to reach out to the government in solidarity of support of the government’s measures to minimise the effects on the British public. How very noble and cosy, what ever made me think they were competing for political territory?

The left media can never win this war of inevitability, whoever heard of anyone risking death for tolerance? Nationalism has good reasons to fight, reasons which the left simply don’t understand and never will, but this of course doesn’t mean the left won’t kill millions of us in demonstrating how tolerant they are.

Posted by EA (European American) Steve on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 12:03 | #

I agree, Fred! It is refreshing to see commenters come to their senses (if not grow a spine), on a rather leftist media source and article. Maybe the next step should be the British resisting the BBC propaganda; that would certainly be a good sign.

Let’s use Austria’s rise in nationalism, and the incident of Telegraph readers coming to their senses, as inspirations, in our continuing fight for Christian and European survival!

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 12:40 | #

Copyeditor,

I will allow that you could be right about the pale. But I caught Michael Wood’s contribution to the BBC’s Medieval Season several day ago now, in which he actually referred to the genesis of the expression. I forget now exactly what he said, but it was to do with some food production process, I think.

So if I’m wrong, he is.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 14:28 | #

Notice a couple of things: one, those letters taken as a whole leave nothing out, not one thing, in regard to what the problem is and what needs to be done. So we see the ordinary people’s, the race’s, natural-born wisdom is throughgoing and complete. Everything is there.

Race is of course, there, not just “culture.”

Race, God bless them! I love them! Yes it’s there and clear as crystal even where they don’t use that word. It’s unmistakable all throughout their expressions of concern.

Repatriation is even in there, so the idea that the other side must not be allowed a partial victory in the form of race-replacement to the tune of a certain limited percentage of the British population left in place as a fait accompli. These good folk recognize that must not be allowed to happen, but what’s been broken racially must be fully, humanely restored to its original racial condition, ESPECIALLY since no one among the target population was ever ONCE asked if they wanted this!

Also, and this was gratifying to me since I’ve tried to make this point also, was the several correspondents who disputed the characterization of this Austrian party as “far right.”

They’re not “far right” but centrist and in my view slightly to left of center. I also am not “far right” but, the same as this party, middle-of-the-road and in fact slightly left of center.

That was number one, the way everything was in those letters taken as a whole, all the main points, all the essentials (and these are ordinary folk, not academics! Their ordinary native folk wisdom gets it right, utterly outclassing that of the academics, even high ones like Roger Scruton).

Number two: when you consider the way the MSM for many long years, nay decades, has been suppressing all expression along the lines of what’s in these letters you can only conclude the ones calling the shots behind the scenes specifically wanted a mixed-race Britain and nothing rocking the boat before the inevitability of that had been set in train. No other conclusion can be drawn, which is why I always say this race-replacement being done on purpose. Had there not been that pre-conceived goal privately held, the editors, publishers, and owners would have seen no particular reason to suppress any and all questioning of excessive incompatible immigration’s wisdom, would they? Had they been merely honestly reporting the facts of the way the world was going or whatever, they’d have taken a look at those questioning government policy and said, “Here are some opposing views, let’s see how the readership responds and how this shakes out after discussion.” But no, those opposing views were methodically suppressed when it was obvious the present course led only to one end-result, a mixed-race Britain. It was too obvious for these controllers to not see of course, as any six-year-old child can see it. So, they saw it. We know that, because it’s obvious. And they suppressed all expression in opposition to it. That we also know. Therefore they wanted it to come about. That’s clear. Well, what’s “it”? “It” is race-replacement of the U.K. They knowingly sought the U.K.‘s race-replacement.

If that’s the case why are they letting letters like the above through now? Answer: They’re scared.

Have you read about armed rebellions? Have you seen photos of any? It’s not pretty what happens in them.

That’s going through their minds right now, as they ask themselves if it’s worth keeping the lid fastened tightly on the pressure cooker, and they’ve decided no, the risk to themselves if there’s a violent explosion isn’t worth it, and they’d better let off some steam.

Are they reversing course? Of course not: they still think they can win this thing in the end and get Britain race-replaced. But in the short term they’ve decided to let off some steam so the pressure cooker doesn’t blow sky-high right this minute.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 14:30 | #

“thoroughgoing and complete”

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 14:35 | #

The BBC web-site has published a photo of Tired of Idiots with this article (just under the headline, to the right). You know, that’s exactly how I pictured her! Amazing! I must be clairvoyant!

Posted by Young Nationalist on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 15:19 | #

Tired of Idiots “Violent. Idiotic. Typical failed life thinking.

“Failed life”? Keep dreaming, and keep telling yourself that, bitch.

You really have nothing to add here, ToI. Run along now. Go back to your negro, which is the only kind of “man” women like you are able to attract. I mean, why settle for a real man when you can keep a pet chimp?

Happy Oktoberfest!

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 15:32 | #

Young Nationalist,

I’ll allow that youth is inclined to impetuosity where reflection might serve it better. So I am not being ungenerous when I ask you, please, to strictly observe the rules of the house ... no racial abuse allowed. The only way you, as an ambassador for our people, stand any chance of smuggling disrespectful racial commentary past me is if it is leavened with, and redeemed by, wit and wisdom. Short of that, please leave it at the door.

Posted by Young Nationalist on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 15:41 | #

Fair enough. BTW, the ‘Happy Oktoberfest!’ comment was dripping with sarcasm. For what it’s worth.

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:36 | #

Prost und Willkommen.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:12 | #

Yes, Young Nationalist, one must be careful not to heap calumny on chimps, domesticated or otherwise. These intelligent, anthropoid apes often display superior offspring-rearing skill sets to those of the racial group to which you alluded.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:22 | #

Tired of Idiots made reference to ‘White Supremacy’ in this thread but I dont suppose she has thinks very much about what she writes. Every race views itself as superior and if we Whites do so we are only indulging in a tautology. In fact, I would bet that most of my fellow WNs would settle for White Separatism instead of precarious, apartheid-style, minority-positioned White Supremacy any time.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:25 | #

“has” , of course, should have been excised.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:31 | #

“In fact, I would bet that most of my fellow WNs would settle for White Separatism instead of precarious, apartheid-style, minority-positioned White Supremacy any time.”

Excellent point by Al: who wants to live as a ruling white minority exercising “supremacy” over the sea of non-whites that surround it? None of us, that’s for sure. We want racially homogeneous communities and nation-states where there’s just us, no one to lord it over. Just us. That’s not white supremacy.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 01:28 | #

In this important new speech,

http://www.pvv.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1310&Itemid=1 ,

Geert Wilders says many right things and many wrong things. The wrongest of the wrong things is:

”And the numbers [of Moslem immigrants in Europe] would not be threatening if the Muslim immigrants had a strong desire to assimilate.”

That, the wrongest thing he says in this speech which is right in so many ways, nearly nullifies the rest all by itself.

Posted by Al Ross on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 09:33 | #

The Muslim immigrants will begin to assimilate when Whites give up alcohol and pork-guzzling, convert to the monotheistic paganism of Islam, then cultivate the time-honoured Islamic customs of sitting on the floor and eating all 3course meals with our fingers. Also, there’s the matter of the alteration of toilet bowl logisitics so that no ‘cans’ face Mecca, not to mention the prayer to the Arab tribal moon-god every 4hours, 48 minutes daily. Quite simple really.

Posted by EA Steve on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 09:41 | #

I agree with Al and Fred. We don’t want “supremacy,” ruling over another race. It’s ironically the Establishment, which does. Just look at Mexico; therein, a Spanish ethnic elite controls the Idigeneous and part-Black population. That is a caste system, which likely will be duplicated in America (only with non-Spanish Whites and NE Asians on top). Maybe one idea, would be to turn the whole continent Brown Hispanic, and have a North American Union, followed by a Hispanic (North and South) American Union. I am not a conspiracy theorist; this is only a possible idea, for some of the elite.

It’s ironic, when the race-mixing elites, call us racial supremacists. We just want our own countries, while they want a racial caste system.

Posted by torgrim on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:09 | #

“I agree with Fred and Al. We don’t want supremacy…”—-(EA Steve)

Add my name too, with Fred, Al and EA Steve.

In fact, my g.grandfather, once arrived in New York,- took one look around, and walked to Chicago, then went west from there, and he like so many from Europe, carved out a place for his family, with his own hands.

Supremacy is not what founded this country, it was founded by the Yeoman farmer. The caste system was and is a failed system, just look at Mexico! And that is the reason, so many of us do not want another illegal in this country, as they bring their caste system/culture, when they arrive, enmass.

As for giving up “alcohol and pork guzzling”, (Al Ross), I must say, you make a good case for drinking and eating, both….!

Posted by Desmond Jones on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:35 | #

The anomaly is, that is was white supremacy (or more accurately Anglo-Saxon supremacy) upon which the notion of Manifest Destiny was built and which fueled the western expansion. Anglo-Americans believed that “the peoples of large parts of the world were incapable of creating efficient, democratic and prosperous governments;” and that a stable world order and economic growth could only be accomplished by the triumph of Western Christian civilization.

Denying white supremacy is, in a way, embracing racial egalitarianism.

Why will the missions in Afghanistan and Iraq fail? Why are Africa and India basket cases? The Smart fraction II; why does China lag? Why, despite his best efforts, was Charles Murray in his treatise, On Human Accomplishment, unable to statistically transcend the very facts staring him in the face? The reasons are little different than those espoused by Anglo-Americans over two hundred years ago.

“the peoples of large parts of the world were incapable of creating efficient, democratic and prosperous governments;”

Posted by torgrim on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:49 | #

Desmond Jones,

I think we were discussing the issue of “ruling over”, a population, not the supremacy or lack thereof, of the value of Western Civilization.

The issue I think we were discussing is about seperation.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:39 | #

There must be a reason for separation.

One is that living together is suicidal, exogamy is inevitable.

The other is if we live together, the more advanced group is destined to triumph, regardless.

Posted by Matra on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:01 | #

One is that living together is suicidal, exogamy is inevitable.

The other is if we live together, the more advanced group is destined to triumph, regardless.

If suicidal exogamy is inevitable then we most certainly are not destined to triumph.

Posted by Matra on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:11 | #

Here are some thread comments to illustrate the point that there is a crack in the door. They are taken from the thread to a confused and rambling but PeeCee piece in the Telegraph

Ditto this piece from the philo-semitic Pajamas Media. A typical response from ‘Eric’:

Not to restate too much of what’s already been said but if the mainstream European political parties cared more about their indigenous populations than they do about preserving their power via insane immigration policies then “right wing” reactionary parties would have remained fringe parties. But since the socialists/Leftists in power throughout Europe are obsessed with multiculturalism, wracked with guilt over colonialism, starting two world wars, and being white, they pursue policies that are guaranteed to destroy Europe. Anti-immigration parties are rapidly gaining power across Europe and Europeans are forced to turn to organizations that aren’t afraid of being called “racists” or “fascists” by the elites in the media, politics, and academia to make sure their countries, cultures, and societies are preserved for their progeny.

Note the headline: Austrian Party That Wants to Bring Back Nazi Imagery Wins Big

From what I can make out the party merely opposes totalitarian laws banning Nazi imagery. In other words they support something we used to take for granted called freedom of expression.

Posted by Al Ross on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:55 | #

Anglo Saxon supremacy didnt count for much during the Norman conquest of England, but I suppose that event was pretty much an intra-Nordic altercation.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:56 | #

Anglo Saxon supremacy didnt count for much during the Norman conquest of England, but I suppose that event was pretty much an intra-Nordic altercation.

The criteria was not the winning of every battle ever fought but the creation of efficient, democratic and prosperous governments; The Normans introduced feudalism and strong centralised government to England but not Roman Law. A new body of Anglo-Norman law evolved based on Anglo-Saxon common law and Norman feudalism.

According to the defenders of the privileges of parliament, the English possess a natural sense of liberty which came, with the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, from the forests of northern Germany. By tradition this settlement began with the arrival of the Jutish chieftains Hengist and Horsa, who reputedly landed in southern England in 449 CE. The brutal Norman conquest of 1066 occluded these virtues, but failed to suppress them completely. In fact, the cause of freedom and the “natural rights of Englishmen” made a comeback with the granting of Magna Carta in 1215.

Thomas Jefferson held that the basis of the common law was shaped in the immediate aftermath of the arrival of Hengist and Horsa in the mid-fifth century. Since England was not converted to Christianity until two centuries later, the common law is by definition pagan.

Jefferson sought to give these ideas visual form in his proposal for the design of the Great Seal of the United States. One side was to bear the images of Hengist and Horsa. The other was to depict a pillar of fire leading the Chosen People into the Promised Land. The racial character of this combination is unmistakable. Those of English heritage must predominate on the new continent because of the primordial excellence of the Anglo-Saxons, personified by Hengist and Horsa. The pillar of fire designates the collective side. It belongs to what is termed the theory of manifest destiny, the idea that the original settlers of British North America were entitled to exercise supremacy over the whole continent—and beyond.

Whether or not its true really does not matter. The belief that it was true lead to the establishment of an Anglo-Saxon commonwealth across North America.

Posted by Al Ross on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 23:46 | #

Jefferson’s inclusion of Jewish motifs was probably more of a nod to the myths of The Enlightenment’s most fashionable pastime for gentlemen, viz., speculative Freemasonry, (of which Jefferson, like many of the Declaration of Independence signatories, was a practitioner) than anything else.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 00:34 | #

Regardless, Al, the point is Jefferson built a supremacy myth, that fueled the building of a nation.

The ‘Sopranos’ was interesting, despite the fact that many did not recognise it, but it too was partly about building a supremacy myth. The rank and file decried it. ”...it demeans and stereotypes Italian Americans”...“The show’s popularity rests greatly upon the fact that Americans with their “WASPish” aspirations to propriety suffer horribly from “passion-envy”...or “the newly affluent generation is unaware that the largest mass lynching in US history was of Italian American laborers in New Orleans, 1891?”

All negative stuff. However, Tony continued to build on themes that provided an insight to an Italian nation residing in American.

Anthony ‘Tony’ Soprano Sr.: Excuse me, let me tell you something… When America opened up the floodgates and let all us Italians in, what do you think they were doing it for? ‘Cause they were trying to save us from poverty? No, they did it because they needed us. They needed us to build their cities and dig their subways, and to make them richer. The Carnegies and The Rockerfellers: they needed worker bees and there we were. But some of us didn’t want to swarm around their hive and lose who we were. We wanted to stay Italian and preserve the things that meant something to us: honor and family and loyalty… and some of us wanted a piece of the action. Now we weren’t educated like the Americans, but we had the BALLS to take what we wanted! And those other folks, those other… the, the JP Morgans, they were crooks and killers too, but that was the business right? The American Way.

Therein lies the stuff of nationhood. We were better than them ‘cause they couldn’t do the stuff we did.

Posted by Al Ross on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 00:46 | #

Also, Desmond, that which fueled the building of a nation included finance from the usual Semitic source :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haym_Solomon

I appreciated your Sopranos reference and it reminded me of a scene in which a Jew tells mob members :
” You wops cant intimidate me - 300 Jews held off 10000 Roman soldiers at the Battle of Masada - where are the Romans now”?

“You’re lookin’ at ‘em”

Posted by torgrim on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 01:14 | #

“According to the defenders of the privileges of parliament, the English possess a natural sense of liberty which came, with the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, from the northern forests of Germany.”

The idea of an assembly of free-holders, that would consent to give loyalty to a chieftain/king, come from this racial group, the tribes of the forests of northern Germany. Common law, laws laid down through usage, layers, lag or orlag, (O.N.) truly, defend the individual from the tyrant, which is just the opposite, with most of mankind.
And hence gave rise to a superior culture.

Manifest Destiny, was inevitable, if the “commonwealth of N.America”, were to survive.

California, is a good example; contrary to the propaganda of our day, California was a backwater, ill governed, poorly funded, appendage of Mexico. Two leaders at the time of the Bear Flag Revolt, Pio Pico, the administrative functionary at the Pueblo, Los Angeles, and the military authority, Don Castro of Monterey, California, were in a disbute about monies collected, from tariffs, collected at the only authorized port of California, Monterey. It seems, that Don Castro was keeping the fees and not dispersing the monies to his adjutant, Pio Pico. A military detachment was sent to collect and at the same time, the British were off shore with a military flotilla, and so were the Americans, even the Russians were considering, the weakness of this far flung, colony of Mexico. The regular army in Alta California, was made up of, recently released prisoners from Mexico City, and they too were adding to the chaos, by raping and stealing, from the ranchos in the San Fernando Valley….
The military commander in Sonoma, north of Yerba Buena, (San Franciso), Don Vallejo, recognized that order would best be served by aligning his authority with the Bear Flaggers and the Revolt.

I think this makes a case for the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon form of government, even the Mexican General Don Vallejo, recognized this fact.

Posted by silver on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 02:58 | #

Denying white supremacy is, in a way, embracing racial egalitarianism.

To deny whites have the duty to rule the world (your definition of “white supremacy”) is in no way to embrace racial egalitarianism.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:05 | #

Duty is “the social force that binds you to the courses of action demanded by that force;”

Entitled, in this case, means qualified by excellence.

There is a difference. Denying excellence is embracing equality.

Posted by silver on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:45 | #

Duty is “the social force that binds you to the courses of action demanded by that force;”

Entitled, in this case, means qualified by excellence.

There is a difference. Denying excellence is embracing equality.

Very well, let’s amend my statement:

To deny whites are entitled to rule the world (your definition of “white supremacy”) is in no way to embrace racial egalitarianism. [Why should anyone be entitled to rule all others?]

Entitled means qualifed by rights according to law. Entitlement (the rights accorded) may be influenced by excellence but stands independant of it, ie there is no embrace of racial equality.

I can’t imagine how disturbing it must be to be unable to pinpoint an ‘ought’ in Darwin, but, really Desmond, I can’t see how playing the evil twin of po-mo—everything whites ever did was right—helps your case.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 07:52 | #

[Why should anyone be entitled to rule all others?]

Manifest destiny

A people chosen “to establish on earth the moral dignity and salvation of man”.

To deny it is to embrace the “other” as equal.

Posted by silver on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:04 | #

Well, you’re ruling them now. Rather than you go to them, they’ve come to you. How’s that working out for you?

(This is quite incredible, actually. Even coming from you.)

Posted by Fr. John on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:23 | #

Unbelievably, American Renaissance carried an article on this same topic:

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2008/09/austrian_voters.php
and I (tongue firmly in cheek) noted:

“The Jewish and Islamic community have protested against the extreme agendas of the far-right politicians.”
Ahhh. Which translated, means ‘He must be doing something correct.”

AND THEY PRINTED IT!?

I continually strive to push the envelope over at AMREN since coward Taylor enacted his ‘Heischkeitsreichskanzellor’ censors, and many times, I am barred from posting for a month or so, yet ‘jewamongyou’ and others of his race, is/are DAILY free to say what they think.

That this got through (and I do it merely to annoy- I mean, who would want the Nazis and their ideology back, right?) makes me wonder… is the cognitive dissonance about the Deicides becoming to great for even TAYLOR to ignore any further?

Right… and the Obamanation is dedicated to the rights of the indigenous Palestinians over in the Middle East.

Posted by Fr. John on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:44 | #

Sigh, I am SO ‘tired of idiots.’

...Which, of course, leaves room for white supremacy, right? And here, for a brief moment, I thought it might not have been personal. Alas.

What else is there for our salvation BUT ‘white supremacism’? (your term, not mine) But seriously, if it were not for Christendom, and the achievements of the White/Caucasoid race, (the REAL ‘white supremacism’) we’d all still be trapped by non-existent forms of horse-powered transport, cooking with fires only, disease and death, and architecture the equivalent (maybe) of Norman architecture… and all this talk would be moot, for we would not have ‘imported’ the non-Whites into our culture in the first place!

...Oh, yeah, and what did you all do today to advance WN? What mustard seed did you plant?

I plant it every day, in that I homeschool my children, and I teach them the greatness of their race, their culture, ther European faith in the ‘White Man’s God,’ and also of the lies of the Jews and the Niggers- the former that they are in ANY way related to the ‘children of God;’ and the latter’ their amoral, bestial, and functionally mentally-retarded state as compared to Caucasians.

...A country also built on the backs of blacks, at the expense of Native Americans. Laughable.

Yes, it is laughable. Slavery is an INESCAPABLE construct. The Bible clearly teaches this. Moreover, the ‘backs’ of conquered and less ‘survival of the fittest’ nations, is a HISTORICAL fact- whether one is a Biblicist or a Darwinian Atheist, or merely a Jewish Supremacist. You can’t escape it, and all the blathering on of ‘our diversity is our strength’ increasingly falls into the category of “Arbeit Macht Frei,” or other outmoded constructs.

I find today that Indians (because of the work of Mr. de Nugent over at Stormfront, the idea that Indians are ‘native’ to my continent no longer holds water - cf. Solutreans, and the film “Ice Age Columbus”... as well as the Celtic Monks, the Nordic explorers, Vinland, L’Anse aux Meadows, etc. ad nauseum) who gain ALL the benefits of a ‘sovereign nation’ while also expecting the benefits of American Citizens (a clear ‘having your cake and eat it, too’ scenario!) and then use their ‘special people status’ to build ‘Lost Wages’ fleecing type of operations TAX FREE, [Casinos on reservation land] are utter con artists, and leeches on American society….much like the people who taught them to do this…. the Jews.

And the Blacks? Ha ha. After Katrina, after OJ, after Rodney King, after the OBAMANATION, as well as the ‘I’m black I don’t do that sh*t’ attitude so recently on display in the Olympics, when it comes to displays of patriotrism, brotherhood, or solidarity with such bestial bipeds, all of it merely serves to UTTERLY NEGATE ANY CLAIM ON MY HEART OR HEAD, that such lower races are, in ANY SHAPE, my equals.

I read in a subsequent entry on this board that you hoped you would be impregnated by a non-White. May it be so, and may your family line vanish off the face of the earth, if you repent not. As a mere woman, frankly, how Dare you strive to talk back to your betters, Madam. Better to ‘learn in all subjection’ and ask your lawful Head to teach you in humility at home, than show yourself an intellectual whore.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:28 | #

How’s that working out for you?

Not well because the “other” is embraced as an equal.

Posted by Al Ross on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:35 | #

Whites would be much better off adhering to a philosophy derived from the Laws of Nature than from the Semitic Laws of Moses:

http://www.thecivicplatform.com/2008/09/30/national-socialism-the-biological-world-view/

Thanks to Friedrich Braun’s blog.

Posted by Al Ross on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:56 | #

The ‘other’ may not be embraced as an equal for much longer in the US. Instead, the ‘other’ might well be conferred with superior legal status as soon as Whites sink into the minority status that so many bogus-refugee-importing Christian groups desire for them.

http://www.vdare.com/taylor/080929_malaysia.htm

Posted by Desmond Jones on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 22:19 | #

Salter makes the case that non-Utopian liberalism is adaptive in an ethnically homogeneous society. Freedom of association, speech and contract was considered by Milton (and Jefferson) as gifts from God. However, he argued they can be seen as “natural in the anthropological sense”. Thus as Torgrim suggests, “Common law, laws laid down through usage, layers, lag or orlag, (O.N.) truly, defend the individual from the tyrant”, which is, per Salter, “adaptive because it prevents petty tyrants from increasing their rank and hence relative fitness at the expense of others”.

“Nationalism was the form in which democracy appeared in the world, contained in the idea of nation as a butterfly in a cocoon.”

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 22:39 | #

Al,

From Friedrich’s link:-

In the natural state, every population is subject to biological selection, which means that the individuals who are best fit for the given circumstances rise to the top of that society, whereas those who cannot cope with life as it is must perish. This is one of the iron, relentless Laws of Nature ...

No, that’s social darwinism, not evolution theory. Populations are not subject to biological selection. Genes are subject to natural selection.

Illiterate idiot.

Al, do you really think that NS is “a philosophy of life”? It lifted the “life” part from the populist völkischers, of whom Friedrich’s “greatest man in history” said that had they understood power and known how to bring their supporters out on the streets they would have seized the day after the failed communist revolution in 1918. NS would never have got off the ground.

The rest of the NS platform was pseudo-science and lots of really, really mad dreaming, and I mean insanely mad dreaming which any normal Brit will treat with the derision it richly deserves.

To accept NS as a life-philosophy and the best available political expression of European interests, one has to believe that it is somehow acceptable and positive for “the strong” Ayran in a ridiculous little uniform to drive out a third of the “the weak” Slavs from their homelands, and enslave the rest. Social darwinism is not a life-philosophy but a bad excuse for the opposite. NS coopted it as a justification for its own unbridled arrogance, and probably never really believed in it - or anything, actually, but the will to power.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 23:59 | #

Natural selection is “the differential survival and/or reproduction of individuals within a population based on hereditary characteristics; or Differential survival and reproduction among members of a population or species in nature, due to variation in the possession of adaptive genetic traits”. Thus those with the adaptive traits, produce more offspring. However, there are mitigating circumstances. Darwin’s example of the Scots and Irish for instance. The Irish produce more children, are 5/6ths of the population, the Scots produce less but own 5/6ths of the assets. Which is more adaptive?

Social Darwinism is natural selection without sympathy.

Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil. ... We must therefore bear the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind;

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 02:59 | #

It doesnt much matter, Desmond, if the Scots, a group to which,incidentally, I belong, were as ‘adaptive’ as Darwin said and owned a disproportionate share of assets. Fecundity or, in its absence, a highly innovative technological capability is what drives any group’s long-term progress in the struggle for survival. Also, the comparison of colonial, feudal, illiterate Ireland during Darwin’s era with contemporaneous Scotland of the Enlightenment (the very name speaks of lifting the dank, dark veil of oppressive religious belief from a fortunate people) is merely an historical snapshot, not a ‘set-in-stone’ determination, as illustrated by the Hibernian nation’s current relative prosperity and the happy, precipitous decline of the once all-pervasive RC Church’s malign influence in contemporary Irish society.

Whatever flaws the NS philosophy may have, GW, it seems to me to be more adaptive vis-a-vis White racial survival than any snivelling, blessed -are-the- meek, poor (pick and mix your favourite unterhund) Christer nonsense produced by a disaffected, rambling, logorrhea-afflicted, Jewish heretic. That was my only point.

Posted by Dave Johns on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 03:18 | #

Whatever flaws the NS philosophy may have, GW, it seems to me to be more adaptive vis-a-vis White racial survival than any snivelling, blessed -are-the- meek, poor (pick and mix your favourite unterhund) Christer nonsense produced by a disaffected, rambling, logorrhea-afflicted, Jewish heretic.

Pssst! Al’s been perpetually pissed off ever since he lost, and never found, his St Anthony Medal when he was just a wee child.

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 03:22 | #

Yes, DJ, that made me very Cross.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 03:39 | #

Also, the comparison of colonial, feudal, illiterate Ireland during Darwin’s era with contemporaneous Scotland of the Enlightenment (the very name speaks of lifting the dank, dark veil of oppressive religious belief from a fortunate people) is merely an historical snapshot, not a ‘set-in-stone’ determination, as illustrated by the Hibernian nation’s current relative prosperity and the happy, precipitous decline of the once all-pervasive RC Church’s malign influence in contemporary Irish society.

Which speaks against NS, Al.

...which means that the individuals who are best fit for the given circumstances rise to the top of that society, whereas those who cannot cope with life as it is must perish.

Now if Edmund Spenser had his way…

Posted by Diamed on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 03:48 | #

I invite everyone to read my lengthy and excellent discussion of White Supremacism, I also believe anything short of Supremacy is egalitarianism. Contrary to some posters here, simply noting white superiority does not require we coexist with other races as rulers/conquerors, that’s a false either/or.

http://diamed-the-road-less-traveled.blogspot.com/2008/09/what-is-white-supremacism-why-is-it-bad.html

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 04:05 | #

Doubtless you are correct about the anomaly you mentioned, Desmond. Your name would not normally come to mind when recalling RW Emerson’s apposite aphorism : “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”.

Thank you for the Spenser link. I have not read any Spenser and this looks seriously good.

The English pacification of Ireland would have surely been reciprocated had the respective countries’ geographical positions been reversed.

Posted by Matra on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 05:41 | #

as illustrated by the Hibernian nation’s current relative prosperity and the happy, precipitous decline of the once all-pervasive RC Church’s malign influence in contemporary Irish society.

When Ireland was Catholic it had much higher birthrates than it does at present.

When Ireland was Catholic it was nationalistic and anti-foreigner.

Now that Ireland is secular/atheist and has discarded Catholicism it has low birthrates and welcomes Nigerians, Arabs, and other Third World immigrants.

Ditto Spain and Quebec.

Catholic Ireland, Quebec, and Spain were nationalistic and adaptive. Secular/atheist Ireland, Quebec, and Spain are multicultural and maladaptive.

Personal prejudice is irrelevant. Results are what matter.

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 06:33 | #

If, today, the RC Church possessed the power over the Irish psyche that it did “when Ireland was Catholic”, does anyone seriously imagine that, given both Catholicism’s innate universalist worldview and contemporary RC hierarchy attitudes to non-White immigration (as in the US, for example), the Irish government would maintain immigration restrictionist policies.

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 06:44 | #

’ innately’ to replace innate.

Anyway, Ireland’s exaggerated religiosity was an expression of anti - British (or earlier, English) nationalism and when that colonial adventure ended, the raison d’etre for some of the Vatican-based mumbo jumbo’s attraction began to wane.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 07:38 | #

True Al, however the RC Church, or at least some outposts, like Quebec, did not, vehemently did not, before WWII, support a universalist world view.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 15:00 | #

George Handlery catches on slow, but he does finally begin to catch on:

11. The unrestrained immigration of hostile entrants raises a question: to where will the hosting natives go once the intolerant minority they harbored has taken power. (Far fetched? Not at all. There are a number of areas that have been lost by the original majority to what were once gracefully accepted refugees.)

No, he still doesn’t fully “get it” but hey I’m not greedy, every little bit helps and if it takes Handlery another ten years to realize that yes, <u>race does exist</u> and massive governmental tampering with it when government doesn’t know what in the fuck it’s doing isn’t exactly what the doctor ordered, that’s OK, I can wait ten more years. But can the white race?

Put on your thinking cap, George.

( http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3563 )

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 19:50 | #

Regarding Torgrim’s brief discussion (Oct. 3rd, 12:14 AM) of Old California (the Spanish California of the Zorro legends, before the U.S. took it away from Mexico and anglicized it both racially and culturally), the book “Two Years Before the Mast” by Richard Henry Dana has lots of descriptions of what it was like. Go to http://www.Bartleby.com click, on the list of works arranged “by author,” look for Dana in alphabetical order, click on the title of the book, and start reading at chapter XII in the table of contents.

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 20:48 | #

Monterey, Dana tells us, would be a fine place “except for the character of the people”. Race-realism has a longer pedigree than race-denial.

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