Posted by Chesterton Soc on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 15:38 | #

This is very worrying, but truth will out. I’ve never had much of an interest in the Holocau$t industry, despite being inundated by its ad agency-marketing arm-media material as a child. However, I confess it’s events such as this one that are igniting an interest. I mean, there seems to be an absolutely overwhelming interest in silencing people such as Dr. Toben; the response to independent Holocau$t researchers seems completely disproportionate. Why?

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:24 | #

I’ve always taken the view that the revision aspect is too specialised for people like me to comment upon - I am not a historian of WW2.  But the relentless exploitation of the Holocaust narrative is there to be attacked: the money aspect, the Hollywood schlock, the moral pretentions of the Europe-wide Holocaust Memorial Day, the pseudo-religiosity of the museum-temples, the stuffing of it all down the throats of innocent European school-children.

I’m much too old to have been infected with the public hysteria about the Holocaust when I was young.  The phenomenon did not exist in the public consciousness.  In fact, the first time I even heard of it was in or around the mid-1970s, when I was already in my twenties.  Over the next decade or so, it was apparent by the way it grew that it was purposive in ways that had nothing to do with German wartime guilt.

In the years since I first encountered dissenting opinion on the internet, saw laws passed to protect the official version and, of course, witnessed honest and sincere dissidents receive inexplicably unjust court sentences, my attitude towards the veracity of the narrative has taken a huge knock.  I haven’t actively endeavoured to deconstruct it as one who has German ethnic or National Socialist sympathies might.  Neither of those considerations applies to me, and I don’t dislike Jews.  But, today, the Holocaust-as-narrative is self-imploding before my eyes, under the burden of the moral iniquities of its enforcement and exploitation.

In such an atmosphere of repression and state-propaganda, so contrary to the ways of the free country into which I was born, how can I “believe”?  I am not a state-puppet to do whatever is demanded of me.  I am bound by the caste of my mind to analyse, to weigh and to discriminate for truth.  The narrative has lost me.

Posted by Englander on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:36 | #

That report by the Telegraph is surprisingly balanced. They even let a rather subversive quote from Toben in.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 18:52 | #

Like everyone else I was “a believer.”  When I first frequented this site I was a believer though I understood, because I had read it somewhere, the figure of Jews gassed and otherwise done to death was likely somewhat less than six million — maybe five million; no significant difference there, of course. 

Then came all these arrests, trials, and imprisonments and because of them I knew immediately the official version had to be untrue:  you don’t arrest, try, and imprison someone for saying the moon is made of green cheese.  I can’t adequately describe my feelings of outrage at these arrests and trials for the “crime” of holding an opinion about what did or did not happen to the Jews during that war. 

After a couple of years of reading about it, reading the forbidden literature, I now know the story of Jews gassed or of millions of Jews killed by the Germans is a lie of unspeakable proportions but Jews will never admit it because it’s now become part of their religion.  It’s like trying to get a Christian to admit Jesus Christ didn’t rise on the third day.  They’ll never admit it.  We others must simply have our version of the truth and they theirs, and of course these punishments for the “crime” of holding an opinion on the matter, whatever that opinion may be, have to stop.

Finally:  I consider the Jews to be the principle culprits behind this travesty of arresting and trying people for expressing an opinion about the fate of the Jews during WW II.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:46 | #

Finally:  I consider the Jews to be the principle culprits behind this travesty of arresting and trying people for expressing an opinion about the fate of the Jews during WW II.

Possibly however, there seems to be more to it. Despite Heidegger’s protestations that the nationalism of National Socialism was not insurrectionist, the particular against the universal, but rooted in the Volk , because that sort of nationalism is always doomed to failure, IMO it was. Maybe because it did fail. However, failure or not the power of it was stunning. The number of European governments put in exile by its fury is astounding. This is where the fear also lies, not just with the Jews, but with a governing elite that is constantly aware of the power imbued in the particular.

Posted by silver on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:55 | #

Finally:  I consider the Jews to be the principle culprits behind this travesty of arresting and trying people for expressing an opinion about the fate of the Jews during WW II.

What a turn up for the books.

Of course, various communist (or leaning) types are just as guilty.  In fact, communists are even more obstinate than Jews on certain issues.  You’ll find ten Jewish race-realists for every one communist; indeed, I haven’t yet come across a communist race-realist (at least not one who is prepared to admit it).  Similarly, Communists, too, consider the Holocaust fantastic propaganda and are loath to permit free discussion of it.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 21:58 | #

As far as I’m concerned these arrests and trials prove the Holocaust never happened.  Period.  Full stop.  End of story.  Had the Jews not pushed matters to this extent I and tons of others would still firmly believe this really and truly FILTHY lie, a lie so FOUL words cannot express its PURE FILTH.  Its foulness, its filth, are beyond the power of words to express.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:01 | #

Every Chinese Communist, like every Chinese anywhere, is a race realist.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:11 | #

(Out of respect for “full disclosure,” so that others will know how to weigh my words:  I have German ancestry and identify, as most here will already know, as a German underneath my U.S. identity, so I’m not neutral, impartial, or disinterested.  I’m very partial and very interested, while of course nonetheless placing truth uppermost among concerns, above anyone’s interest or partiality, mine included.  I would say my feeling about this Holocaust lie and the crime against the German people which it constitutes matches Jürgen Graf’s feeling as he has described it in a few places.  I will also repeat that the Jews will never give up this Holocaust lie which they now treat as part of their religion, a religion which, like Shinto in Japan, combines religion and ethnoracial nationalism in one seamless whole.)

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:17 | #

So are the Castroite communists in Cuba, Al, and the Vietnamese communists as well.  Cuba is full of Negroes:  when was the last time anybody saw one in the upper echelons of government or society there?  Such a thing simply does not exist there:  Fidel Castro’s government has been strictly a white man’s affair.

Posted by silver on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 22:56 | #

I don’t think any of them openly admit their race-realism or openly base policies on it.  India’s upper crust is probably similarly privately race-realistic (scientifically so, not just traditionally prejudiced).

For all that, it remains a fact that European communist types (actual communists, marxists, greens, gaylesbos etc) are staunch defenders of racial egalitarianism and anti-discrimination, both of which are immeasurably aided by Holocaust propaganda.  The Jews were discriminated against, were rounded up and concentrated in camps and many were killed.  That’s all reason enough to pound the Holocaust. The “gassings” stuff is just icing but why risk having the whole apple-cart upset over what, in their eyes, is a detail? 

This is an explanation of their behavior, not a defense of it, btw.

Posted by IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:12 | #

The Jew-laden publishing industry along with Hollywood covet the billions made from Hollyco$t films and Hollowco$t books and is willing to destroy any individuals or groups who question their highly biased interpretation of history.

As usual, when it comes to organized Jewry it’s less about the truth and more about them gaining profit and, as an added bonus, sympathy.

Posted by Sandy Jamieson on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:29 | #

Toben’s views are wrong. The question is this european arrest warrent. What he did was quite legal in England. How can we deport someone for something that is entirely legal here? We can if we so wish deport him in this case it would be to Australia. If the offence he is changed with had a similar offence in our legal system, then deportation is correct but freedom of speech is a principle of English Law even (I would say especially) if one is wrong. Toben is probably quite a repulsive creature but he still has the right to express hs views.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:56 | #

Tobin will doubtless be imprisoned for the innocent act of requesting proof of the Jewish Supremacists’ risible claim that 6 million of their holy race were gassed by Germans.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:58 | #

“Toben”, of course.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:01 | #

“Toben is probably quite a repulsive creature but he still has the right to express hs views.”  (—Sandy Jamieson)

Everyone here would agree with that, Sandy.  Whether his views are right or wrong, he has the right to express them.  I have a question for you:  whence, exactly, in the year 2008, comes this odd notion, odd on European soil and shocking and unacceptable, that he hasn’t that right?  Whence comes that notion?  Not from any Euro brain, I can tell you that.  Not in the year 2008.  It comes from outside the European race.  It’s an alien notion.  Everyone here knows what I’m saying:  that alien idea, alien to all of us here, comes straight out of Asia and the Asiatic mind.  Borne here by .... we all know by whom.

Posted by cladrastis on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:09 | #

Our political opponents revise history (including unofficial death tolls) all the time - check out today’s report from the MSM:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26977893/

Report: Dresden bombing deaths overestimated
New commission finds some 25,000 killed, far fewer than previous reports

BERLIN - The Allied firebombing of the eastern German city of Dresden in 1945 killed no more than 25,000 people — far fewer than scholars’ previous estimates running as high as 135,000 — a special commission has found.

The team of a dozen experts, including university professors, archivists and military historians, said Wednesday that four years of research so far has confirmed 18,000 deaths and showed that police and city administrators at the time believed there were about 25,000 victims of the bombing.

Since the end of World War II, scholars have varied in their tally of people killed by waves of British and U.S. bombers on Feb. 13-14, 1945. Some estimates have run to 135,000 or more. In his 2005 book on the bombing, British historian Frederick Taylor argued the real toll was between 25,000 and 40,000.

The high civilian death toll in Dresden and the devastation of the centuries-old city center have been a source of controversy for decades — as has the dispute over whether the Allies were justified in targeting the refugee-choked city. The Allies hoped the bombing would hurt the Nazis where they would feel it most, and help force their capitulation.

Recently, neo-Nazis in Germany have talked of 500,000 to 1 million victims, calling the raid a “bombing Holocaust” and comparing it to Adolf Hitler’s murder of 6 million Jews. They accused Britain and the United States of committing mass murder.

It was after the far-right NPD party won seats in Saxony’s parliament in 2004 and gave greater voice to these claims that state officials decided a commission was needed to put the matter to rest.

“The commission, in this preliminary report, believes there were a maximum of 25,000 people who died during the February aerial attack,” a team statement said Wednesday. The research is to continue until 2009.

Cowering in basements
Nazi authorities had failed to provide adequate air raid shelters for Dresden. That left people cowering in basements where many were asphyxiated or buried by collapsing buildings. The town’s anti-aircraft guns had been removed for use against the approaching Soviets, letting the bomber crews take undisturbed and deadly aim.

The fire made superheated air rise rapidly, creating a vacuum at ground level that produced winds strong enough to uproot trees and suck people into the flames. Some who managed to get through the blinding sparks and fiery debris staggered into the Grosser Garden park, where many were killed by a second bomber wave.

But the exact death toll has always been a question.

Nazi propaganda from 1945 put the toll at some 200,000. Under communist East Germany, authorities agreed upon 35,000. The neo-Nazis offered a sharply inflated figure.

The team of experts has pored through more than 2,600 linear feet (800 linear meters) of files in the Dresden state archives and interviewed dozens of witnesses.

The commission has also consulted studies on aerial attacks, rescue operations, firefighting, and archaeological evidence.

Despite the chaos during the final days of the war and the devastation of the bombing, they said they found that records of the recovery and burial of the dead from the raid was “remarkably orderly.”

“Through this work of the commission the victims get a face and a name,” said Dresden Mayor Helma Orosz. “Behind every single victim is ... suffering and we should remember this.”

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:11 | #

(agree with the right to express his views part, not necessarily, by any means, the “probably a repulsive” creature part, certainly not my view of him:  I view him as a hero)

Posted by Guessedworker on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:18 | #

Obviously, Sandy, Toben’s character, repulsive or otherwise, is entirely beside the point and he isn’t being brought before the courts because of it.  One might vary that to except his moral courage, which is indisputable and may, in a non-legalistic sense, very well explain why he is where he is just now.

There must be a prima facie case in English law for Toben’s deportation to Germany, or he would be as free as a bird.  However, my understanding is the same as yours - that, subservient though it is to whole swathes of EU law, English Law does not recognise the offence of trivialisation of the Holocaust.  Of course, it could just be that “interested parties” think there might be some prospect of creating precedent ... or maybe they just want to reach out and claw the man.

When the judgement is known it would be very interesting to see how it is couched.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:22 | #

If people were being arrested and thrown in prison for denying the Armenian Holocaust we’d know the Armenians were at least in large part behind that.  We might not know exactly how they managed to influence things to that extent, but we’d know they must have, somehow.  If people were being arrested and thrown into prison for affirming the Armenian Holocaust we’d know the Turks were at least in large part behind that.  We might not have a smoking gun as evidence they were, but there’d be essentially no doubt about it.  If people were being arrested and thrown into prison for denying the Holodomor, we’d know the Ukrainians were at least in large part behind it.  If people are being arrested and thrown into prison for denying the official version of the Jewish Holocaust (the Holocau$t, in other words), we can say with confidence the Jews are at least in large part behind it.

Posted by Guessedworker on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:40 | #

Cladistris: Our political opponents revise history (including unofficial death tolls) all the time

Excellent point. Cladistris.  It’s only a question of who and what is subjected to re-examination.

Not much chance of a two-year commission into the Shoah.  Doubtless, it could establish a definitive figure for camp deaths and their causes, establish the whereabouts of the missing bodies and ashes, etc.  The revisionists would not protest whatever the outcome, providing the process was transparent and free from Jewish pressuring.  But the keepers of the flame are locked into a process of outright warfare, and they can’t back away from it.

They probably can’t win it, either.  The moral courage of the revisionists is unbreakable, and the day will come, too, when Sandy Jamieson, and every thinking man, will ask himself what is really going on here.

Posted by wjg on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:46 | #

Toben’s views are wrong.

Might you be so bold as to explain this, especially here in a forum where the regulars do not bow down and worship at the Altar of Judah.

If the offence he is changed with had a similar offence in our legal system, then deportation is correct…

So is it “The Law” that is sacrosanct or just the law in this case since the views of Tobin are so “wrong”?  Hell, at least if it is the former and our masters outlaw breathing quite a few genuine lemmings will asphyxiate.

Toben is probably quite a repulsive creature but he still has the right to express hs views.

...as are all bringers of light to lovers of darkness.

Also the pseudo-principled support of “repulsive” views can be dropped given that it doesn’t stand up to your previously stated supplication to whatever is the law.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 01:16 | #

James has mentioned this before, however, it bears repeating. Speech freedom is not absolute. It is the common weal, those free to associate, that decide the limits of speech. Surely most here would decry the pornographic excesses of a group like NAMBLA. The Puritans, for instance, were not arbitrary oppressors of free speech, however, they restricted “ungodly print or speeches by heretics and blasphemers”.

After World War I, several cases involving laws limiting speech came before the Supreme Court. The Espionage Act of 1917 imposed a maximum sentence of twenty years for anyone who caused or attempted to cause “insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty in the military or naval forces of the United States.” Under the Act, there were over two thousand prosecutions. For instance, one filmmaker was sentenced to ten years imprisonment because his portrayal of British soldiers in a movie about the American Revolution impugned the good faith of an American ally, the United Kingdom. The Sedition Act of 1918 went even further, criminalizing “disloyal,” “scurrilous” or “abusive” language against the government.

In Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919), the Supreme Court was first requested to strike down a law violating the Free Speech Clause. The case involved Charles Schenck, who had, during the war, published leaflets challenging the conscription system then in effect. The Supreme Court unanimously upheld Schenck’s conviction for violating the Espionage Act. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., writing for the Court, suggested that “the question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.”

The “clear and present danger” test of Schenck was extended in Debs v. United States, 249 U.S. 211 (1919), again by Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes. The case involved a speech made by Eugene V. Debs, a political activist. Debs had not spoken any words that posed a “clear and present danger” to the conscription system, but a speech in which he denounced militarism was nonetheless found to be sufficient grounds for his conviction. Justice Holmes suggested that the speech had a “natural tendency” to occlude the draft.

Thus, the Supreme Court effectively shaped the First Amendment in such a manner as to permit a multitude of restrictions on speech. Further restrictions on speech were accepted by the Supreme Court when it decided Gitlow v. New York, 268 U.S. 652 (1925). Writing for the majority, Justice Edward Sanford suggested that states could punish words that “by their very nature, involve danger to the public peace and to the security of the state.” Lawmakers were given the freedom to decide which speech would constitute a danger.

The issue devolves to the commonwealth, the lmits they desire and who shapes it.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 01:37 | #

“The issue devolves to the commonwealth, the limits they desire and who shapes it.”  (—Desmond)

You state the obvious, Desmond.  (And you’re right to do so, unfortunately.)  In other words, those whom we trust to uphold principle too often betray that trust, leaving scant principle in their wake.

Posted by wjg on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 01:56 | #

From cladrastis’ post…

Recently, neo-Nazis in Germany have talked of 500,000 to 1 million victims, calling the raid a “bombing Holocaust” and comparing it to Adolf Hitler’s murder of 6 million Jews. They accused Britain and the United States of committing mass murder.

The stupefying hypocrisy in this one little excerpt - and especially as contrasted to the main post - shows both Judah’s brazenness and the Goyim’s vapidity such as:

-Possibly exaggerating the massacre of civilians at Dresden is the work of evil folk beneath the contempt of “decent” people (e.g. neo-Nazis).  Turn the tables and these “university professors, archivists and military historians” would be broke, jobless,  facing criminal prosecution, and thought of as “repulsive”.

-Calling this event a “Holocaust” is an unpardonable copyright infringement of the Holy of Holies.

-Daring to compare it to the SIX MILLION JEWS figure is further blasphemy since it cannot and must not be evaluated but the death of simple Goy scum can be.

-Lastly, how dare these “Nazis” dare call the firebombing of women and children “mass murder”.  These German must clearly be seen as a corporate enemy - as now are all healthy White folk - who got what they deserved whereas each of Yaweh’s darlings must always be judged as an individual and very deferentially at that.

The whole article is written in this same supremacist vein.  They no longer even expect us to think and act like men.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:01 | #

This E.U. arrest warrant, which allowed Austria to get Gerd Honsik who thought he was safe in Spain, and now permits Germany to lay foul U.S.-proxy hands on Toben, is further evidence that it’s better not to have one single big EU country, but smaller independent nations, as previously:  if evil take over an individual country it doesn’t take over all of Europe, so there are places evil can’t reach, whereas if evil take over the E.U. it takes over all of Europe.  Better to have natural traditional borders that naturally limit evil’s reach.

Posted by ant on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:12 | #

does anyone know which school Toben taught at in Victoria???? was it in GAroke????

thanks

Posted by Dave Johns on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:04 | #

The smartest thing we (the USA [European nations are too weak and fagoty]) should do is launch a preemptive strike on all the Israeli nuclear sites. Then let the Islamists’ mete out their “divine” form of justice upon the Synagogue of Satan!

Posted by Al Ross on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:43 | #

The prime objective of Muslims (the dispersal of Israelis to White homelands) is antithetical to that of Whites (the exodus of Jews from White homelands to Israel). The likelihood of Jew-controlled American foreign policy enacting a military scenario such as the desideratum described by Dave Johns is about as likely as Iran’s Ahmadinejad sitting shiva at an Israeli State Funeral.

Also there is the matter of the allegiance of that rogue, supernatural figment of Dave John’s febrile American brain, viz.,  Satan.  Surely the old Devil must be on the side of the (arch)angels.

Posted by Dave Johns on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 15:39 | #

“The likelihood of Jew-controlled American foreign policy enacting a military scenario such as the desideratum described by Dave Johns is about as likely as Iran’s Ahmadinejad sitting shiva at an Israeli State Funeral.”

Twas just wishful thinking, Al. But as always, I got a good chuckle reading your colorful critique.

Posted by ? on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:42 | #

I must remark on this:

“This is because Revisionists are, among other things, dismantling a massive multi-billion dollar industry that the Holocaust-Shoah enforcers are defending, as well as the survival of Zionist-racist Israel.”

I can’t discern from his website if Toben has a larger paradigm than refuting the Holocaust, but to the extent that he considers himself to be either pro-German or pro-Australian in the nationalist sense, his use of the phrase “Zionist-racist” as a perjorative is incoherent.  Though we in the West have largely forgotten it, the whole reason for having a nation is the opportunity to band together with like-people to defend your collective interests against outsiders.  That Israel preferentially protects and advances the interests of Jews against those of non-Jews is to be expected; indeed, there is no other reason for it, or any other nation-state, to exist.

And no, this isn’t a defense of America’s preferential policies towards Israel, or even a defense of everything Israel does.  I merely mean to point out that Toben can’t consistently be a nationalist one day and a cosmopolitan the next.

Posted by wjg on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:32 | #

O|O,

That’s a good point re. Toben’s use of the term “racism” to describe the Zionists but keep in mind there are several flavors of dissidence in “the West” these days, all of which help at least a little to free us from our chains.  Toben in particular is chipping away at one of the cults main pillars: that Jewish life is intrinsically more valuable than Gentile life.

1.  There are those who seemingly embrace the lunacy of liberalism and seek to hold Jewish Supremacists/Zionists to the same standards.  Toben looks like he falls into this grouping.  These folk at least try to expose the hypocrisy of Judah in violating the foundational tenets of political correctness.  Little do they realize that Jews don’t eat the slop intended just for Goy pigs.

2.  There are those - like you - who reject the worst aspects of liberalism and see no problem with Jews also rejecting it.  This is a consistent, logical, and “fair” (by traditional Aryan standards) view.

3.  There are those who reject the multicult AND acknowledge Judah’s role in starting and sustaining it.  We both want the West to eject this poison and hold Judah corporately accountable for its effects.

I used to have your attitude but I no longer care in any way to protect that shitty little country since it is simply an asylum for the international race; emboldening them to even further nation wrecking.  It allows them the best of all worlds: freedom to leech off Euro-Man as their Talmud proclaims in the diaspora, to transfer much of this swindled wealth not only into their personal pockets, but also to Israel proper through foreign aid, and have a haven to run to when they invariably wear out their welcome or destroy their host.  They do need to be ejected from the body of the West but where to is their problem.  Maybe Liberia will take them in.

Of course most White folk are in group 4…

4.  Those who think as the matrix demands which is Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians, Israel for Jewry, and White lands for everyone.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:32 | #

?‘s comment is right if Töben is a German nationalist (that is, a normal German).  Anybody know if he is?

Posted by just me on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:35 | #

I am interested in this for several reasons:

a. the rhetorical - I sincerely doubt a ‘crank’ academic who denied say, Trotsky’s crimes, would be arrested and extradited.  In fact, if a crank academic said the Palestinians were lying and exaggerating he wouldn’t be arrested, in fact, he might get to write the news story rather than be its subject. 
b. Where are all the free speech advocates - wasn’t it just banned book week at the library, and weren’t librarians telling us to read books about homosexuals and blacks and such?
c. First they came for….once this precedent is set the next people to be extradited will be general racists, then critics of Israel (which of course is antisemitism)  then opponents of immigration.

Posted by Matra on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:29 | #

Meanwhile the European Jewish Press reports Lithuanian authorities have dropped criminal investigations into charges against Jewish partisans, including historian Yitzhak Arad, of killing Lithuanian civilians during WW2.

“The criminal investigation into Jewish partisan activities during the Holocaust is a troubling symptom of revisionism that has no place in a country that strives to be a member of the democratic community of nations,” the Holocaust Museum and Institute in Jerusalem said. 

It added: “As Yad Vashem Chairman Avner Shalev emphasized in his letter (August 10, 2008) to the Prime Minister of Lithuania, “Only by dealing openly and forthrightly with the full and complex truth about the past will your nation succeed in building for itself a secure and stable future.”

So looking into crimes by Soviet communist Jews is now considered a form of “revisionism”. Any country interested in pursuing such war criminals cannot be “a member of the democratic community of nations” nor can that nation “succeed in building for itself a secure and stable future.”  Sounds like a clear threat.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:58 | #

Clearly, either threats or bribes motivated Lithuania to drop that investigation.  Furthermore, it’s not exactly hard to imagine U.S. pressures brought to bear on Lithuania on behalf of Israel, to the point where someone said, “Man, this just isn’t worth it.  Let’s drop it.”

Posted by john fitzgerald on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 07:32 | #

I read Toben’s newsletter, up to about number 100 - there was nothing indicating Fred’s a German nationalist, he’s Australian. He’s not interested in politics. He is interested in truth and Wagners Ring.
By Judeo racists I’d say he’s describing jews outside Israel. They’ve been persecuting him for many years now. I remember a radio interview he gave with one once when he came out with the memorable line ” don’t forget to tell the truth Jeremy”.

Posted by Fr. John on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:05 | #

“It’s like trying to get a Christian to admit Jesus Christ didn’t rise on the third day.  They’ll never admit it.”

Fred Scrooby.

We wouldn’t admit it because it isn’t true. There are numerous historical accounts of the Faith, and the Gospels clearly implicate the guilty, and corroborate the Resurrection. There were over 500 witnesses during the Post-Resurrection event, and the Church has never NOT existed, based on that one FACT.

The Jews, OTOH, are ‘liars from the beginning. - as Jesus Christ called them. When the evidence proves that THEY HAVE been, did, and ARE still lying, THAT is enough to ‘deny’ the ‘Hollowhoax.’ When numbers, science, conflicting hyperbole (Elie Wiesel et al.) show it all to be a SHAM, one can do no less than UTTERLY disbelieve this myth.

Your comparison is a false one. Christians are told to tell the truth. Jews are allowed to lie and cheat. It all comes back to ‘which sacred texts’ are your religion’s bases. The former is the OT and the NT. The Latter is the Talmud.
There is no comparison.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:04 | #

To Fr. John:

As soon as I had posted that comment and re-read that line I realized it sounded the way you took it, as if I was putting Christ’s resurrection in the category of fictions.  I didn’t intent it that way.  I do not deny that Christ rose from the dead on the third day.  I meant only (and obviously I should have put it in some way that was less misleading) that the Jews will no more agree the Holocaust gas chambers and the six million didn’t happen than the faithful of any other religion will question their religion’s tenets, because the Holocaust, standard version complete with genocide-dealing gas chambers and the number six million is now an article of Jewish religious faith (which is to say religio-national faith, the Jewish religion combining religion and Jewish nationalism in one).

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:20 | #

Of course what happened to the Jews during that war qualifies as a holocaust.  Hundred of thousands of innocent Jewish men, women, children, and old people perished, most of disease and starvation in the camps, a large number more or less summarily shot as the German army advanced into the Soviet Union and the lands it controlled.  But there was no German plan to genocide the Jews, there were no killings in gas chambers in any of the camps, and the number of Jewish civilians who perished isn’t reliably known (because the Jews have made it that any scholarship on the issue will land the scholar in jail, so it’s remained a blank since the war) but the figure I shall accept until free scholarly inquiry resumes is 350,000, not “six million.”  After the war the Germans were subjected to a far greater holocaust by the Jews, incidentally, and prior to the war the Ukrainians were sibjected to a far greater holocaust by the Jews.  The wartime Jewish holocaust was sandwiched between two holocausts done by Jews, the Holodomor of 1932 and the post-WW-II German holocaust in which many millions of Germans were deliberately killled, counting civilians and surrendered disarmed soldiers — I recently saw one credible estimate that the number of Germans killed by the Jews AFTER the German surrender in 1945 topped fourteen million.

Posted by Robert Reis on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:31 | #

Main Core and PROMIS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Core

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Main-Core-PROMIS-and-the-by-Ed-Encho-081003-472.html

“Worms do not rise up in revolt. That takes a backbone.”

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2008/10/the-bailout-in.html#more

Posted by Larry Silverstein WTC 9/11 on Fri, 03 Oct 2008 22:24 | #

Of course what happened to the Jews during that war qualifies as a holocaust.  Hundred of thousands of innocent Jewish men, women, children, and old people perished, most of disease and starvation in the camps, a large number more or less summarily shot as the German army advanced into the Soviet Union and the lands it controlled.

What happened to the Germans at Dresden, or the Japs at Hiroshima was the ‘real’ holocaust! The Jews from the Auschwitz death books and Red Cross archives died of natural causes, old age, ordinary diseases etc. The carnage greedily filmed by the allied propaganda machine at the close of the war, was the mess created by allied terror bombing (exactly like the mess the mass murdering liars have created in Iraq, lookin for non-existant WMD’s and fighting Israel’s enemies, whilst they sit there watching with glee).

The un-uniformed partisans attacking and sabotaging German military units (today called terrorists) would be shot by any army! As for your laughable mass graves of Jews, not a single one has ever been found or exhumed…Haven’t you noticed? Evereything pales in comparison compared to what the Jewish NKVD did to the white Russians in the Ukraine, and what they did to the Poles at Katyn Forest.

How to cover up your own crimes?...Make lies up about others.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 01:38 | #

I agree with “Larry Silverstein’s” letter in most of its essentials.  I would change one or two details and assign different emphasis here and there, but in most essentials it’s correct, both in its letter and in its spirit.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 04 Oct 2008 06:27 | #

Good letter (at another site):

Oct. 1, 2008

Dear Editor,

What sort of Truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth?

I wish to express my outrage that the Holocaust, unlike any other historical event, is not subject to critical revisionist investigation.  Furthermore I deplore the fact that many so-called democratic states have laws that criminalize public doubting of the Holocaust.  It is my position that the veracity of Holocaust assertions should be determined in the marketplace of scholarly discourse and not in our legislatures bodies and courthouses.

Let’s end ‘thought crimes’ in the twenty-first century.  Dr. Toben’s thoughts cannot be killed by his imprisonment.

His thoughts cannot be killed by his imprisonment but they can be delayed, perhaps delayed long enough for race-replacment immigration into all Europe’s and the Eurosphere’s nations to go to completion or become an actual irreversible fait accompli.  There can be no question but that such a consideration, among yet others as evil, is part of what motivates this and all the other ultimately futile imprisonments.  They’re playing for time:  once every single man, woman, and child in every single European and Eurosphere nation in the world will have been changed from white to Negro they won’t need to care who finds out the truth on the Holocau$t:  what difference will it make when only Negroes are left where whites once existed?  That’s the ultimate victory, race-replacement, not keeping the truth about WW II from people.  Race-replacement is the ultimate prize motivating this illogical behavior on the part of the Jewish overlords who fear if the truth about the Holocau$t became known race-replacement might not go to completion.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sun, 05 Oct 2008 03:45 | #

The Guardian publishes the nauseating, ultimately genocidal views of a brutal Jewish totalitarian extremist on the Töben case, and the readership — the Guardian readership, mind you!! — aren’t falling for it!!

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sun, 05 Oct 2008 03:49 | #

Just to be clear:  the brutal Jewish totalitarian extremist is Professor David Cesarani.  What I want to know is, if the Guardian isn’t owned or run by Jews, why is it giving this totalitarian a platform?