Shame in the Oval Office

Posted by Guessedworker on Saturday, 01 March 2025 00:23.

This is the exchange which triggered the astonishing and graceless performance in the Oval Office this afternoon by Donald Trump and JD Vance:

Vance: For four years, the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is, maybe, engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States’ words mattered more than the president of the United States’ actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That’s what President Trump is doing.

Zelenskyy: Can I ask you?

Vance: Sure, yeah.

Zelenskyy: OK. So he occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years — I’m not speaking about just Biden, but those times was Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the ...

Trump: 2015?

Zelenskyy: 2014.

Trump: Oh, 2014? I was not here.

Vance: That’s exactly right.

Zelenskyy: Yes, but during 2014 ‘til 2022, the situation is the same, that people have been dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, my bilateral conversation. And we signed with him, me, like, you, president, in 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him, Macron and Merkel. We signed ceasefire. Ceasefire. All of them told me that he will never go. But after that he broke the ceasefire. He killed our people, and he didn’t exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners. But he didn’t do it. What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about? What do you mean?

Vance: I’m talking about the kind of diplomacy that’s going to end the destruction of your country. Mr. President, with respect, I think it’s disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict.

Zelenskyy: Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?

Vance: I have been to ...

Zelenskyy: Come once.

Vance: I’ve actually watched and seen the stories, and I know that what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. Do you disagree that you’ve had problems, bringing people into your military?

Zelenskyy: We have problems ...

Vance: And do you think that is respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?

From this point Trump and Vance became increasingly loud and offensive. It was astonishing that the world’s press should witness such low and stupid behaviour from the two most powerful politicians in America. The plain truth, of course, is that with or without a signature on a minerals agreement they have absolutely no intention of lifting a finger to dissuade Vladimir Putin from re-starting his attacks. They are pretending that a ceasefire agreement without security is just as solid as one with security, and they know that’s simply not true. When Zelensky exposed the deceit with his history lesson they responded with chaff about his supposed lack of gratitude for past support, and about his not wanting peace. It was a deflection technique - and it might also have contained an element of revenge after Zelensky roasted a White House emissary sent to Kiev last week with a third completely worthless draft agreement.

The passive-aggressive demand that Zelensky apologise to Vance constituted a new and weirdly wrong-headed take on victim-blaming. All the noise and arrogance - and mafia-like threats - had come from the American pair. In Moscow the reborn nuclear thug Dmitry Medvedev found time to celebrate by calling Zelensky “the insolent pig”. The Trump White House and the Kremlin deserve each other.

Tags: U.S. Politics, World Affairs

Comments:

Posted by Manc on Sun, 02 Mar 2025 14:52 | #

Moulton for POTUS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr6n2-gjKkw

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 02 Mar 2025 16:20 | #

Reality exists!

Trump, being a realist, understands that to end the massive slaughter of white people, Ukraine must cede Crimea and the areas already occupied by Russia. Additionally, an indivisible agreement should be established stating that Ukraine must not join NATO and must remain a neutral country. If that solution is not agreed upon, then this war will almost certainly escalate into World War III, potentially including nuclear conflagration.

Given those choices I say Ukraine can go suck on it. It is not worth risking the entire world to what boils down to protecting the overinflated egos of deluded Western European elites. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes; this should be the lesson learned by crop of Western elite voices exemplified by individuals like Bozo Boris Johnson.

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 02 Mar 2025 18:08 | #

Just in:

America As Republic, Not As Empire – Europe’s ‘Sound And Fury’ After Jaw-Dropping Pivots In US Policy
by Tyler Durden
Sunday, Mar 02, 2025 - 07:00 AM
Authored by Alastair Crooke,

The bits are falling into a distinct pattern – a pre-prepared pattern.

?itok=bvYvPIjh

Defence Secretary Hegseth at the Munich Security Conference gave us four ‘noes’: No to Ukraine in NATO; No to a return to pre-2014 borders; No to ‘Article 5’ peacekeeper backstops, and ‘No’ to U.S. troops in Ukraine. And in a final flourish, he added that U.S. troops in Europe are not ‘forever’ – and even placed a question mark over the continuity of NATO. (emphasis mine)

Pretty plain speaking! The U.S. clearly is cutting away from Ukraine. And they intend to normalise relations with Russia.

Then, Vice-President Vance threw his fire cracker amongst the gathered Euro-élites. He said that the élites had retreated from “shared” democratic values; they were overly reliant on repressing and censoring their peoples (prone to locking them up); and, above all, he excoriated the European Cordon Sanitaire (‘firewall’) by which European parties outside the Centre-Left are deemed non-grata politically: It’s a fake ‘threat’, he suggested. Of what are you really so frightened? Have you so little confidence in your ‘democracy’?

The U.S., he implied, will no longer support Europe if it continues to suppress political constituencies, arrest citizens for speech offenses, and particularly cancel elections as was done recently in Romania. “If you’re running in fear of your own voters”, Vance said, “there is nothing America can do for you”.

Ouch! Vance had hit them where it hurts.

Posted by Manc on Sun, 02 Mar 2025 22:15 | #

Thornski, I had been in the process of posting a much longer reply to you. about this issue, however fate intervened and the sister of mine, who is 10 years younger and much father to the right than me actually called to see me after my recent post=op and recovery blues. Little sis is far to the right of me. Being ten years younger than me. lil sis is a Child Of Thatcher, which I am not.. My sister, in question. we shall henceforth call her Elaine, because that is indeed her name, given to her ,despite my protestations ,by our mother. Elaine is in middle management in the UK civil service.. As soon as I had got passed the mmm - mmm How are you ? formality with Elaine, I told her that she was interrupting my duties as an online shitlord .

As soon as I mentioned Moulton, Elaine was like ” Ooh Moulton, yes, I’ve seen him online, he would be a perfect POTUS”. Well, I don’t know if women of a certain age get a little, shall we say, damp, when it comes to alpha guys like Moulton, but in Elaine’s case, I’m prepared to believe it, knowing that she had a thing for Alan Shearer, despite her husband being a season ticket holder at MCFC and a club employee.

That is all by the by. More to the point I have had a couple of close American amigos. One was Daniel S. here at MR, The other was a guy named Pat. Pat worked for the US military here in the UK. From our first meeting, Pat and I hit it off, agreeing on pretty much everything from Thatcher to Reagan ( the latter for beating Russia without firing a shot). Pat was one of life’s good guys, who had devoted most of his life to the values that both Britons and Americans hold dear. A couple of years ago, my daughter, who’s relationship with Pat’s daughter exists to this day, informed me that Pat had died. Now, that news moved me. It moved me like when my actual brother died . Pat and countless other Americans who had devoted their lives to maintaining the western way of life (as imperfect as it may be) , will be spinning in their graves at the orange betrayal.

Trump has put a Russian dagger to the throat of every European. Unless his orange majesty performs a swift u-turn (not out of the question) he will never be forgiven by us and by us I mean the people of Europe. We will not accept this behaviour.We will not accept this betrayal.

Posted by Manc on Sun, 02 Mar 2025 22:41 | #

I posted, a rather long and somewhat personal reply to you Thorn. However, MR being what it is, that reply has been detected as spam and needs to be moderated - but never mind, GW, don’t bother. I will go straight to the bottom line. Trump, by choosing to televise what should have been done behind closed doors has handed Putin a propaganda victory. Not only has the Orange Idiot done that, he has put a Russian dagger at the throat of each and every European. You need to understand this - we- Europeans- will never forgive or forget this act of betrayal - and Trump has made a WW3 more likely than ever.

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 02 Mar 2025 23:38 | #

“Not only has the Orange Idiot done that, he has put a Russian dagger at the throat of each and every European.”

The only real threat that Russia poses to European countries is a nuclear attack. Russia’s limited conventional military capabilities are clearly on full display in eastern Ukraine. So not to worry. At the rate the Russian military takes over territory, the UK would have already become a Muslim country a century earlier.

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 03 Mar 2025 00:05 | #

Mancowitz,

As an Americano who closely follows domestic politics, trust me when I say that Moulton is a lying Democrat douche - but I repeat myself by using lying, Democrat, and douche in the same sentence. It’s no secret the contemporary Democratic Party has been entirely taken over and staffed by cultural Marxists. To put a finer point on it, 90% of the Jewish billionaires in America donate to the Democratic Party and no doubt they support Moulton with generous contributions and favorable media coverage. Moulton returns the favor, in part, by spewing anti-Trump rhetoric. In large part, that’s how politics works in the KWA.

Posted by Manc on Mon, 03 Mar 2025 01:28 | #

Politicians, of any and all types and the truth are strangers, which is why any future we might have doesn’t lie in that sphere - something GW has been trying to tell you.

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 03 Mar 2025 01:40 | #

“something GW has been trying to tell you.”

Politicians are liars. Been hip to that truism since I was a teenager.

But I like this quote by Lady Ann: “There are lots of bad Republicans, there are no good Democrats.” —Ann Coulter

“Politicians, of any and all types and the truth are strangers, which is why any future we might have doesn’t lie in that sphere”

Au contraire! Power resides in the political sphere. If we do not participate in that sphere, we are rendered powerless.

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 03 Mar 2025 12:24 | #

“[Elaine} called to see me after my recent post=op and recovery blues.”

I hope your recovery is progressing well and that you’re now in good health, Manc.

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 03 Mar 2025 12:43 | #

Congressman Seth Moulton is slim scum. He’s a promoter of degeneracy in its most perverted and nation destroying forms.

Moulton Statement on Trump Banning Transgender Troops from Serving
January 28, 2025
•
Press Release
Congressman Seth Moulton issued the following statement in reaction to President Trump’s executive order to ban transgender troops from serving openly in the military:

Thousands of trans Americans are honorably serving in our military right now, having met every standard to serve. Yet Trump’s executive order explicitly declares that every single one of them is dishonorable, untruthful, undisciplined, and selfish, solely based on their gender. This is not only wildly untrue—it’s also incredibly rich following the appointment of a serial adulterer Defense Secretary who hides rape allegations through legal settlements and was forced out of nonprofit leadership for financial mismanagement, sexual harassment, and being drunk on the job. Having dodged enlistment, maybe Trump isn’t clear on what “honor” and “discipline” mean in our military.

https://moulton.house.gov/news/press-releases/moulton-statement-trump-banning-transgender-troops-serving

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 04 Mar 2025 01:43 | #

And now the ultimate immorality - the betrayal of a European people and democracy by the so-called leader of the free world, as all arms transfers to Ukraine, including those waiting in Polish warehouses for onward shipment, are suspended. Trump’s low-rent minion Waltz immediately jumps in to blame Zelensky for “blowing up” the Oval Office meeting. Never mind that it was an obvious set-up from the start - wink, Donald! Supposedly, Zelensky wants a “forever war” because he has not shown sufficient willingness to accept Putin’s peace terms. Neither has he exhibited enough thanks for American aid, notwithstanding that he does so at every available opportunity. Trump wants him to grovel.

It’s not just the really pathological way that Trump and his minions have set about “bringing peace” ... the outrageous and shameless lying or even the weak-minded internalisation of Moscow propaganda. It’s not even that Zelensky is now required to apologise for making an ass of the blowhard Vance and being bellowed at by “King Donald”. It’s the shallow, masturbatory assumption that “King Donald” is uniquely “respected” by the mass murderer Putin, and all by itself that’s enough to stop the nightly missiles, shells and bombs. “Peace” will prevail. Because, apparently, the murderer “wants a deal”.

How can anyone reason in such a child-like way and with such cupidity? Or is it that, being a child, Trump just doesn’t care what Putin does in pursuit of empire because he is made free to do the same?

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 04 Mar 2025 08:31 | #

Republican Brian Fitzpatrick, member of the Ukraine Support Group in the US Congress, has stated:

I just had a long and productive one-on-one conversation with President Volodymyr Zelensky’s Chief of Staff, Andriy Yermak. We are 100% getting this train back on the rails. This minerals agreement will be signed as soon as possible, leading to a strong long-term economic partnership between the United States and Ukraine, and this will ultimately naturally lead to security assistance.

Why would it lead to security “assistance” when Putin has already guaranteed American investments? What is “assistance” anyway in the absence of a hard guarantee? If Americans working under a minerals agreement are not attacked why would Trump lift a finger to stop Putin elsewhere in Ukraine?

Zelensky’s original offer of cooperation on rare earth minerals was tied to the latter and to NATO membership. In its current form, the “minerals deal” has no working linkage to “peace”. It is an extortion threat by the vain psychopath in the White House, and nothing more.