Posted by Thorn on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 11:58 | #

It remains difficult to impossible to debate the objects of faith.  What is one to do?

GW, keep asking yourself the question: Does it make more sense that the universe and all contained in it came into existence out of nothing? or did it come into existence due to the actions of a supernatural being?  One which the human mind, on its own, is incapable of fully comprehending? An exercise in infinite regress led me to the inescapable belief that the latter must be the case.

Simple logic informs us that something cannot come from nothing. Material atheists place their faith in the ridiculous notion that something can come from nothing. Thus, they are wrong from the get-go.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 13:24 | #

So one might speculate that tribalism was, as now, the central value, and that value was expressed in early Christianity, including Pauline Christianity, as the recruitment of the gentile in working for, and making himself subject to, the tribal cause. This is the essence of the Christian soul seeking not the good of his tribe but salvation from a great weight of sin by the grace of the Judaic G-d. This is how liberalism’s universalist dicta come down to us.

@GW your rebuttals are very, very good; they are worthy of respect and admiration.
This is Oliver’s position, what little I have read of it.
Yet, we look at Orban’s declaration rejecting the Enlightenment West in favor of a Catholic(?) Hungary distinct from the rest of the West.
Which one is dying? The Hungarians or the EU?
Which one does the Tribe seek to destroy?
Clearly, Oliver’s position lacks power here.

Christians have a duty to follow Christ’s teaching in regard to the prophets of Israel as in all things, and Israel in this respect holds out only sameness for the Other. However, the truth of peoples is not that sameness but the worth and uniqueness that is the gift of aeons of human descent, and which marks all peoples, Jew and gentile alike. The produced gentile, be he saved from sin by G-d or not, and the natural man under the singular obligation to protect and preserve his kind will always struggle to coexist in one Christian body.

This “sameness” is the key. Is it true?

Assume God created the Universe and the Earth..
Where is sameness? There is none.
I see differences, hierarchy, similarities, etc.
We look at people groups and we see we are not the same, that we prefer to live among our own and that living in proxmity causes conflict (which is why the jews promote it)
To be a christian, according to too many christians, we must abandon reason and pretend to a myth of the jews in the interests of dogma.
So, we have revealed truth in Nature in conflict with revealed truth in scripture and tradition.
It is perfectly rational to look at the truth in Nature and the bullshit in scripture/tradition and go with Nature.

This is one area where Jones’ work becomes indispensable.

That said, a biblical argument can be made from scripture to support the separation of peoples…it goes like this…
At Babel, God created the nations
He did this for the good of humanity.
Therefore, why would any man want to undo the good that God created? 
Astoundingly, man/most Christian sects do…especially those of the protestant branch.
Why? Dogma over Reason.

You also state that our duty is to follow the jews. Is this true?
Christ predated the jews according to their own septuagint, He was there before Abraham , Moses, their temple, etc.
Here is where Jone’s work tying reason and God together is of such importance. It completely changes the way we view religions and God.

You mention tribe over laws…this is very, very, good. However, it can be looked at as Logos over laws and as Reason over laws.

Looking around, we see it is a bloody mess. A rational man looks at it and says, “this is bullshit!” and throws in the towel. (I did this when I left the protestant sect in favor of reason)
But God is not religion.

Thank you for elevating the discussion.

p.s. along the Millenial Woes line, there is a bunch of young men who formed a study group on Jones’ work.  It is a lot like the Blood Satellites on the milleniyule.  The F-bombs are glorious. These are men who have been set free to think, to reject the American evangelicals and to look at first principles.
Link here

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 13:48 | #

Post Christian West (1960s on…) has ushered in native European’s love for contraception, abortion, immoral lifestyles of cohabitation and same-sex “marriage” and every other conceivable abuse of our God-given sexual faculties. That is the proximate cause for whites becoming destined for complete extinction. That or if we don’t nuke each other first. Question: Is our ruling-class flooding native white homelands out of their adherence to their “Judeo-Christian” faith? Or are they motivated by economic reasons, such as importing migrates of all sorts in order to make-up the deficit of the population caused by the rejection of the aforementioned Christian moral values?

I think the answer is obvious. The rejection of traditional Christian values by both the ruling-class and the masses has led the White race down the path of self-imposed extinction.

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 14:11 | #

I think the answer is obvious. The rejection of traditional Christian values by both the ruling-class and the masses has led the White race down the path of self-imposed extinction.

What have the various christian sects done to ..

1. prevent it.
2. stop it.
3. acknowledge it.

One must conclude that the churches are useless or worse in this war.

There are some rays of hope coming from the laity.

 

 

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 14:25 | #

One must conclude that the churches are useless or worse in this war.

Yes, nearly all churches/denominations in the West have been subverted thus their message corrupted by some variants of Marxism. Sign of the End Times, I suppose. 

 

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 14:35 | #

There are some rays of hope coming from the laity.

Of course, if that happened in the USA the white guy would’ve been arrested and charged with assault with intent to do great bodily harm along with hate crimes.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 17:46 | #

But then, there is Vigano .

His letter to President Trump back in the day is making the rounds again.
https://www.emerald.tv/p/archbishop-viganos-first-letter-to
It holds up very well, given the way events are unfolding.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 20:03 | #

From @GW

It remains difficult to impossible to debate the objects of faith.  What is one to do?

While arguing with Sola Scriptura protestants is to engage in talmudism; per Jones’ they rejected Reason when they accepted Luther, is round robin stupidity on stilts , they can be defeated by the internal errors of their thinking. Since you are a materialist, I would avoid it. It is all nonsense to you.

But, if you do not argue on their premises, but from Nature , history and tradition, you could change how they view their received faith.
For, as @Thorn stated, Christianity is in turmoil right now and Christians know this is not right and must be fixed.

On the matter of nations being the proper ordering of mankind….

A study of the Church Fathers , probably to include the Orthodox branch will probably show
1. A rejection of the jewish religion
2. The reality of Nations (in the biological sense…i.e. of birth, etc)

Pointing out current , successful Christian nations…Hungary and Russia ...and ask “what are they doing right? is what they are doing against God’s law?”
“Why cannot we be like them?”
The goal being to get to to first principles and persuading the Christians to reject the errors of their received tradition and to point back to the time of the Apostles and other eras.

If you accept that you cannot destroy faith, then accept that you can leverage faith to proper ends. The continued existence of England for the English is a good and proper end.
To persuade them of that from theological/historical/traditional terms may be your “in” .

Although you need not believe in God, I trust that you see the advantage of leveraging what is there to your ends.

It can be done.

You must read E. Michael Jones book Logos Rising , the framework will be shaping the minds of a generation at least.

Now, if Jones says, that “Nations are not a thing” then I will have to join telegram so I can rip him a new one.

cordially

t

p.s. Catholics see God in the twin books of Nature and Revelation.
The argument from Nature towards the well-being of the various Nations is, therefore, of God.

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 21:18 | #

You must read E. Michael Jones book Logos Rising

Doubt GW could intellectually connect with the first part of Chapter Five. But then again, miracles never cease.

Posted by timothy murray on Wed, 26 Jul 2023 22:17 | #

  Doubt GW could intellectually connect with the first part of Chapter Five.

Neither can the protestants; they are mentally incapable of the meta-analysis Jones provides.
imho, this step back in perspective…or for a better analogy…Jones creation of perspective solves the problem @GW is trying to solve.

 

That meta view, that starts with the Sumerians and Aryans (!
!)  is the gift that Jones has given to humanity. He has given us the ability to place our thought processes in historical perspective while #Logos , acceeding to humanity’s predeliction to screw up, reject or accept, has and is reconciling us to a way of being for which we were originally created.

It is a grand project .

cordially

 

 

 

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 29 Jul 2023 02:27 | #

I believe that E.Michael Jones wrote about Jewish fables . Yet the RC dupe remains Heaven - bound.

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 29 Jul 2023 03:04 | #

I must thank Mr. John Standley for his contributions on other Phora.

Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 30 Jul 2023 23:17 | #

Another TCW thread, another effort to distil and concentrate the substance of the Christian faith for the benefit of the believer:

Christianity’s idiosyncratic model of the penitent seeking to be personally gifted eternal life after death by the grace of God does not, in fact, tend to Man’s relational truth - which is ethnic and familial - but disposes him in a manner wholly consistent with the Judaic End-Time. He is individualised, deracinated and mysticised, becoming a mere notion ... a “soul” saved from religio-ideological failings. He is thereby relieved of his true humanity.

We do not know what the faith which actually emerged from our sociobiology might have been, or how it addressed the existential questions. We know that it was stamped out completely, all its sacred places planted with a temple to Yahweh. It was the first and greatest blow against our very being. We have struggled with it and adapted it as best we could. But we can never overcome its central tendency to displace us from blood and kin into an Idea.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Mon, 31 Jul 2023 12:03 | #

Christianity’s idiosyncratic model of the penitent seeking to be personally gifted eternal life after death by the grace of God does not, in fact, tend to Man’s relational truth - which is ethnic and familial - but disposes him in a manner wholly consistent with the Judaic End-Time. He is individualised, deracinated and mysticised, becoming a mere notion ... a “soul” saved from religio-ideological failings. He is thereby relieved of his true humanity.

Faith dehumanizes man, this dehumanization is a jewish project carried out against the target people.

Does my characterization of your view sound about right?

We do not know what the faith which actually emerged from our sociobiology might have been, or how it addressed the existential questions. We know that it was stamped out completely, all its sacred places planted with a temple to Yahweh. It was the first and greatest blow against our very being. We have struggled with it and adapted it as best we could. But we can never overcome its central tendency to displace us from blood and kin into an Idea.

Interesting.

@thorn, maybe you remember the passage, but in Logos Rising there was a historian who was ostracized for noticing that a society’s religion can devolve, he pointed out some that did. IIRC he correlated some failure in thought with this…or maybe not.

To assume that religions will evolve to the good of a culture is historically wrong.
To assume that they may /will emerge is a different thing.

Thank you again for engaging on the merits.

btw, I have that website bookmarked and will give it some time and thought.

Statements like this (a random grab on a quick scan):

How has Britain reached such a state of affairs where politicians, banks, big business, the media and the educational system are so intolerant of anyone who fails to endorse the woke orthodoxy? It is ultimately a spiritual issue. The fundamental cause of this nightmare of enforced wokery is the national abandonment of the Christian faith.

lead me to believe it is a protestant website. The grovelling posture towards the state and the “waiting for godot” attitude. ...

If it is a protestant site, then it is destined to lose. The roots of that loss are not religious per-se, but philosophical as Dr. Jones documents in Logos Rising.

 

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Mon, 31 Jul 2023 12:25 | #

Meaning would require design. In the broadest terms we are accident or we are design, and if we are design then everything is design, everything is meant and has meaning. But no part of Man’s factual knowledge ever demonstrated one scintilla of design.

Meyer, Behe, and Lennox demonstrate otherwise.

The discovery of DNA led to the discovery of the language that it communicates in.
As John Lennox states, “Information” is exchanged.
The philosophical/religious implications are Enlightenment killers.

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Watch to the ~1:15 Meyer discusses the studies on Junk DNA (which were used as evidence of TENS)  where Dawkins is flummoxed by the internals of Junk DNA that Meyer and his team discovered.

Finally, you wrote:

and if we are design then everything is design, everything is meant and has meaning.

You are correct.

cordially,

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 31 Jul 2023 13:53 | #

Faith dehumanizes man, this dehumanization is a jewish project carried out against the target people.

Does my characterization of your view sound about right?

Not faith per se, which is an unevenly expressed sociobiological trait.  My view is that the Christ-cult was within Judaism but had one unique exception in so much as the gentile-as-believer was to be cultured to labour for his own induction into the Judaic World-To-Come.  This was the reason why the cult was split after Antioch between the Petrine model which understood that the gentile was, in Dawkinsian terms, a Jewish extended phenotype, and the Pauline model which withheld that detail from its gentile communion.

I can’t go through watching Dawkins being flummoxed.  There are times in speaking to the faith-driven when their tendency to invent just-so stories as proofs leaves one open-mouthed and without a reply.  There is nothing in the discovery of DNA which speaks of communication per se.  “Communication” does not mean conversation.  It has a temporal meanings of inheritance, and if you still insist upon a conversational medium, well, it is coitus. In other words, someone is making a (probably deliberate) category error.

You can’t have your god, which was invented by an alien but hyper-ethnocentric tribe five minutes ago.  The earliest known show of respect for the dead (ie, burial) was in BCE 100,000.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Mon, 31 Jul 2023 14:18 | #

I can’t go through watching Dawkins being flummoxed. There are times in speaking to the faith-driven when their tendency to invent just-so stories as proofs leaves one open-mouthed and without a reply.

You are punching at ghosts; This is not what happened here. 

I will try to get you the exact point in the vid where the expression was made along with a concise statement of the phenomena.
He was flummoxed because his model could not account for the machinery that the scientists discovered.

I will try tomorrow.

cordially,

 

 

 

 

 

Posted by timothy murray on Tue, 01 Aug 2023 01:51 | #

Not faith per se, which is an unevenly expressed sociobiological trait.  My view is that the Christ-cult was within Judaism but had one unique exception in so much as the gentile-as-believer was to be cultured to labour for his own induction into the Judaic World-To-Come.  This was the reason why the cult was split after Antioch between the Petrine model which understood that the gentile was, in Dawkinsian terms, a Jewish extended phenotype, and the Pauline model which withheld that detail from its gentile communion.

That line of thought took a lot of work to develop; I salute you on it.

thank you for your civility as I work to learn to think as you do…which, as I have learned from E. Michael Jones is a discipline of the Scholastic Philosophers and, in my view, a matter of basic civility and politeness….

But , since basic civility and politeness are extended phenotypes we are, therefore doomed to be nice people.

Regarding Antioch and the Petrine/Pauline split…

It is standard Christian doctrine/scripture that Paul rebuked Peter…
My understanding is that Peter wised up.  Paul had just had his ass kicked by God , so he knew no fear of man.  Peter was timid as demonstrated at gethsamane, and Paul knocked some sense into the first Pope.

Where did you formulate this idea of a split?

cordially

 

 

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 02 Aug 2023 00:04 | #

It’s just my own historical interpretation, Tim.  Obviously, at this point Peter, in his mission to Jews, was in direct competition with a swathe of other sects, not least the Pharisees who eventually won out.  We know from Matthew 5 that the prophets and the Law were fundamental to the early cult/church.  No doubt Torah was also, not least because competing for the future of Judaism would be impossible otherwise.  Peter’s message to Jews had to be communicated strictly from within the Judaic tradition.  This is why Antioch was important.  It exposed the extreme and ineradicable tribalism of the mother faith, and drove a wedge not merely between Christian Jew and Christian gentile but between Jews in the old tradition and hellenised Jews like Paul, who never knew Jesus.  There was probably something of a south - north split here, too.  Another way to understand the difference might be to look at the Lubovitchers in Crown Heights today and compare them with the secularised Jews of Hollywood and Wall Street.  That difference might be bit more extreme, but you will get the idea.

In the event, Peter’s mission lost traction and the focus evidently shifted to a single, more universalist view, and that shift continued down to Constantine’s time, when the historical die was cast.  By then, the faith was already focussed on the gentile believer comporting himself to Olam Ha-ba by way of his struggle to overcome sin and obtain the blessing of the one g-d of Israel.  Such it remains.

Posted by timothy murray on Wed, 02 Aug 2023 02:19 | #

“It’s just my own historical interpretation, Tim”

thank you.

  Christian gentile but between Jews in the old tradition and hellenised Jews like Paul, who never knew Jesus.

heh.

I understand that as a materialist that you must reject that whole ‘Road to Damascus’ episode…but it begs the question, why was Paul lying?  Granted, the Acts of the Apostles is not the Odysee but it is a bit long for a liar’s cover story/ self justification don’t you think?

We know from Matthew 5 that the prophets and the Law were fundamental to the early cult/church.  No doubt Torah was also, not least because competing for the future of Judaism would be impossible otherwise.

IIRC Mathew was the companion of Peter and his Gospel was written to the jews to demonstrate that Jesus was their messiah (I will check this later this week)

The other Evangelists wrote to different a audiences…and, therefore, had different emphasis….dramatically different emphasis.

My point being that tunnel vision on Mathew will result in a loss of situational awareness.

  There was probably something of a south - north split here, too.  Another way to understand the difference might be to look at the Lubovitchers in Crown Heights today and compare them with the secularised Jews of Hollywood and Wall Street.  That difference might be bit more extreme, but you will get the idea.

I do.

“The Greek East and The Latin West” is a book too dense for me to parse as of now, that (I hope!)  explores/describes the phenomena you present.

Also TOO has a recent article

https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2023/07/09/traditional-jewish-separatism-and-de-humanization-of-gentiles-a-review-of-stephen-blooms-postville/

that has the lubsonabitches . point being, both groups are evil.

But*, returning to your broader assertion…you see Christianity as an intra-jewish squabble. Do I have that right?

If so, that is a fascinating take. “How can I demonstrate it is true?” seems to be a valid Scholastic Philosopher approach.

Interesting,

cordially

* my apologies…I was commenting as I read and only saw your main point after I had tapped out the above paragraphs. also, it is late and I am unwinding with some cheap red wine .

 

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 02 Aug 2023 04:27 | #

GW , as you doubtless know , Celsus pointed out dozens of elementary errors in the Jewish heresy, Christianity, as well as numerous larger stumbling blocks .

You are toying with TM for your ( and my ) amusement, and as per ” The Life of Brian” ,  you are ” a very naughty boy.”

PS .  I emailed Jacob Rees - Mogg when he commenced his new TV career with GB News . This was to advise him that his oft - repeated ” Vox Populi , Vox Dei” , was actually intended to be satirical .

J R-M ceased to employ his verbal tic on TV but , as is customary with RC’s ,did not acknowledge the gentle admonition .  https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/acref/9780191826719.001.0001/q-oro-ed4-00000192;jsessionid=41E79D47702F1B889876E87769B4B6CE

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 02 Aug 2023 04:42 | #

That link failed, like Christianity and much else from Oxford these days.

For all Latinate Yellow Truckers who have been deCabbed by America’s crumbling economy :

“Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox Populi , Vox Dei, quum tumultvisotisas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit”.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 02 Aug 2023 05:39 | #

  Support the Teamsters , their pensions have been purloined by Casino - building Mafiosi , makes a change from Jews.

  https://www.reuters.com/busihttps://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-trucking-company-yellow-shuts-down-operations-wsj-2023-07-30/#:~:text=Benefits & Executive Compensation-,US trucking firm Yellow shuts ops,file for bankruptcy, Teamsters say&text=July 31 (Reuters) - Cash,Teamsters Union said on Sunday.ness/autos-transportation/us-trucking-company-yellow-shuts-down-operations-wsj-2023-07-30/#:~:text=Benefits & Executive Compensation-,US trucking firm Yellow shuts ops,file for bankruptcy, Teamsters say&text=July 31 (Reuters) - Cash,Teamsters Union said on Sunday.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 02 Aug 2023 06:23 | #

But back to the ovine Christians, the sneaky little Jewish shyster’s sheepish adjective was correct.

Those lovely Christian Liars for the Lord burned the work of Porhyry’s critique of imported Jewish arrant nonsense. , lots of it .  Well , only fifteen volumes of Porhyry’s unanswerable critique.

His critique of the mythical Book of Daniel is still discussed in theological colleges , wherein the most apposite topic is ” How many Pinheads can dance on the scalp of an Angel ?

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 02 Aug 2023 12:18 | #

I understand that as a materialist that you must reject that whole ‘Road to Damascus’ episode ...

What’s even more preposterous than that about materialist atheists is they believe the universe and everything contained in it came into existence out of nothing. Of all the belief systems in the world, atheism has to be the most implausible - it’s the domain of the narrow minded. I see many of them as the product of an obstinate hubristic attitude - but in most it boils down to the simple explanation that they lack the ability to think outside the box. One doesn’t need a “Road to Damascus” to break out of the flawed materialist atheist mindset; all one needs is the ability to reason their way out.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Wed, 02 Aug 2023 13:03 | #

@GW in comment 17

The relevant exchange on Dawkins being “flummoxed”

Stephen Meyer: Can I say something in favor of the Dawkins quote? I like the framing. He says, “The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should observe if, at bottom, there’s no purpose, no design, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.” I love the way he frames the issue. Question is, is he right?

Peter Robinson: He makes a testable assertion.

Stephen Meyer: He makes a testable assertion about his materialistic philosophy. But then last summer, interestingly, he confessed to being knocked sideways by the digital information processing system of the cell. There was a new animation that was put up about it by an Australian group, and he said he was shocked by the intricate complexity. There’s something extremely surprising. The universe doesn’t look as it should from a strictly materialistic point of view. We should not expect the fine tuning of the laws and constants of physics. We shouldn’t expect a beginning to the universe. And from a materialistic point of view, we certainly shouldn’t have expected to find the intricate nanotechnology and information technology that is evident in the living cell.

Michael Behe: He’s concluding from physical evidence whether he thinks there’s purpose or not in the universe, and he’s got his opinion, but that means that that’s a legitimate thing that one can ask. Is there physical evidence for purpose in life in the universe?

Stephen Meyer: It actually implies that it’s legitimate to consider the question of design.

Michael Behe: Yes.

John Lennox: But it’s worse than that. He’s denying the existence of good and evil, and that destroys morality and he does believe in the problem of evil because he rails against it. So there’s a total disconnect at the moral level.

Regarding my assertion, “TENS is dead”

Stephen Meyer: John’s referring to meeting in 2016 that was convened by members of the Royal Society and evolutionary biologists who doubt the standard Neo-Darwinian model, and who were saying we need a new theory of evolution. And they called the meeting to explore new evolutionary mechanisms that could either replace or supplement natural selection because of its lack of creative power.

Lennox is more circumspect than I as should be expected; Lennox says the massive ship that is TENS is beginning to change course.

The entire transcript is here: https://www.hoover.org/research/design-behe-lennox-and-meyer-evidence-creator
and is searchable with ctl-f.

It is an easy intro into the fundamental problems surrounding Darwin’s theory…complexity, time, “opposition to life” nature of chemicals….

@thorn its a fun read. We see the “something cannot come from nothing” axiom makes an appearance in the discussion. Also, Lennox welcomes the end of the Englightenment .

cordially

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 02 Aug 2023 20:08 | #

https://twitter.com/Theo_TJ_Jordan/status/1684003926180261888

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 02 Aug 2023 23:54 | #

Tim, it’s important not to confuse the event of the creation of cosmic matter and energy (which, btw, are the same entity under different conditions, or at a different position in the creative process) with the event of life’s creation.  The great adventure upon which Western astro-physics is engaged is exactly the exploration of the former, while the great adventure upon which Western biological science is engaged is exactly the exploration of the latter.  This is the Western Mind, not the Jewish mind, in its elemental address of being.  The cosmic variety of presence I have described elsewhere as:

this austere and unlit, singular, factic thereness of a thing, and of all things under the governments of Time, Entropy and Happenstance.  It is existence as absolute homogeny, existence as raw, imperishable precondition.

... and the organic:

... a vita differentiated from those existent things, but also as the differentiating constant of that “which preserves its difference only as long as it engages in a Manichean struggle with the blind and profane, homogenising forces without.”

We may well want to to ask, in the midst of this dark, material universe, where faith could have come from.  Where if not from deity?  To borrow from the Old Testament, one answer is: the Fall which, as the evolutionary impact of savannah upon early hominids, could predate Homo sapiens by hundreds of thousands of years.  This is why I stated above that “the earliest known show of respect for the dead (ie, burial) was in BCE 100,000.”  If one ascribes to grassland theory (which I do) and measures its impact in cognitive terms as a declining capacity of our very distant ancestors to make a due surfeit of adaptive life-choices over maladaptive ones, we might then consider that the evolution of sight over the other senses, and of thought over the relative immediacy of feeling (immediacy being at a particular premium in a forested environment), and not to forget language ... we might consider that these things have parented all of the familiar failings of our ordinary waking consciousness today.

Of these thought is the most culpable.  I would argue that, first, the higher emotions, and then the moral sensibility developed as an evolutionary counter to restore the balance of life-choices.  Finally, I would argue that faith developed in the higher emotions to that same end.  Rationality and faith are thus to some extent symbiotic, but perhaps within the greater symbiosis of thought and the higher emotions.

Posted by timothy murray on Thu, 03 Aug 2023 02:32 | #

Good evening @GW and thank you for another thoughtful comment. As yesterday, so today, I comment in series before reading the article completely through…

Where if not from deity?

An important question.  Mental illness, moral weakness, fear ,  going along to get along, cultural baggage ....any serious self examination must question recieved revelation.

  The great adventure upon which Western astro-physics is engaged is exactly the exploration of the former, while the great adventure upon which Western biological science is engaged is exactly the exploration of the latter.

This is noble and good.

  This is the Western Mind, not the Jewish mind, in its elemental address of being

hmmmmm

Jones writes that the jews had a history, but never a philosophy

Your statement is intrigueing.

  We may well want to to ask, in the midst of this dark, material universe, where faith could have come from.  Where if not from deity?

Here you answer the question you posed above and posit….

“evolutionary circumstances ” forced man into…

  If one ascribes to grassland theory (which I do) and measures its impact in cognitive terms as a declining capacity of our very distant ancestors to make a due surfeit of adaptive life-choices over maladaptive ones, we might then consider that the evolution of sight over the other senses, and of thought over the relative immediacy of feeling (immediacy being at a particular premium in a forested environment), and not to forget language ... we might consider that these things have parented all of the familiar failings of our ordinary waking consciousness today.

I will look into the grassland theory.

“all of the familiar failings of our ordinary waking consciousness today.”
is problematic.

I live in Appalachia and forest creatures abound….as do grassland animals…none are neurotic proto-evangelicals….they are quite content in their being and I have yet to see a will to power among them. When tney make ‘bad’ life choices they die .

Of these thought is the most culpable.  I would argue that, first, the higher emotions, and then the moral sensibility developed as an evolutionary counter to restore the balance of life-choices.  Finally, I would argue that faith developed in the higher emotions to that same end.  Rationality and faith are thus to some extent symbiotic, but perhaps within the greater symbiosis of thought and the higher emotions.

Faith is an evolutionary defect, a hangover from massive changes in our evolutionary past.  Because it is a part of us (on strictly evolutionary terms, mind you) patience is in order as man, now at a sufficient evolutionary distance to have perspective, sets about….surviving and thriving without the vestigal appendage that is belief in God.

Sound about right?

p.s. your views are a fun read; thank you for your patience and civility.

cordially

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 03 Aug 2023 12:50 | #

Tim, and GW

Have you read Sarah Maid of Albion’s four part essay titled Genocide by Stealth? (I know GW read it) If not it’s a must read.

https://sarahmaidofalbion2.blogspot.com/2011/03/genocide-by-stealth-parts-1-to-4.html

The deliberate methodical genocide of the white race is my numero uno concern. (I consider atheists who’re pro white-preservation activists as allies. I’m willing to ally with those of any stripe who’re pro white preservationists.)

At any rate, it is my personal opinion that the undermining of traditional Christian values is central to their demonic plot becoming successful. In fact (as you’re probably well aware) there are constant attempts (some successful) at Western government legal systems deeming much of biblical scripture hate speech punishable both civilly and criminally. Not surprising bc Christian values run diametrically opposed to the tenets of Western Marxism aka Wokeism; it especially has the LGBTQ mob in a tizzy. The speech I linked to @27 James Lindsey clearly and concisely explains the main objectives of the anti-white religion of “Wokeism” ... or as he also accurately describes it as Maoism with American characteristics.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Thu, 03 Aug 2023 12:57 | #

@thorn

I have the tab pinned and will read it when I get time.

Cordially,

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 03 Aug 2023 13:04 | #

@31

Tim,

James Lindsey’s speech is a must watch, too.

https://twitter.com/Theo_TJ_Jordan/status/1684003926180261888

Posted by Timothy Murray on Thu, 03 Aug 2023 13:46 | #

Its been making the rounds and watched a few minutes.

Does he name the jew?  I quit watching after about 5 minutes.

If he does name the jew, I will watch it through completion.

cordially.

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Thu, 03 Aug 2023 14:01 | #

Grassland theory

This is a lifetime of work just to get the (now defunct) basics down…but…

has DNA work been done on these things? That interests me. That field interests me.

But! another timeline to code along the Geological Time Scale…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution

Both are important for understanding how you materialists (used to) think.

But…thinking back a bit on your hypothesis….

The Fall was early “man” leaving the forest for the grasslands because of “climate change (of course, it is wikipedia) ” .
This forced a change in his cognitive processes; of his experience of himself (if he even had a concept of himself)
Gone was the immediacy of the forest, the “here” “right now” . In its place was space and time that had to be dealt with as a means of survival.

Since evolution continues, the adaptive processes suited for the grasslands, while still with us, are inconsistent with reality.
“faith” is built into us, it is not a referent to a real thing, God…
it is….

(will think some more on this)

cordially,

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 03 Aug 2023 14:41 | #

Does he name the jew?

Re Jews, he does point to The Frankfort School scholars e.g. Herbert Marcuse et al. as being central/main players. He also mentions non-jew commie maggots. Our enemies are attacking from all directions, from within and without; both from jew and gentile. Lots of race-traitors in the White race. In fact it seems white race traitors outnumber white-preservationists. Of course some blame Christianity as the root cause of race-traitorous behavior, I attribute it more to cowardice.

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 00:35 | #

The Fall was early “man” leaving the forest for the grasslands because of “climate change (of course, it is wikipedia) ” .
This forced a change in his cognitive processes; of his experience of himself (if he even had a concept of himself)
Gone was the immediacy of the forest, the “here” “right now” . In its place was space and time that had to be dealt with as a means of survival.

Since evolution continues, the adaptive processes suited for the grasslands, while still with us, are inconsistent with reality.
“faith” is built into us, it is not a referent to a real thing, God…
it is….

This is alright, Tim.  Nice work.  The grassland hypothesis, when read into the narrative of the Fall, supplies a deep historical context for the evolution of Mind, in which faith has a definite adaptive function.  It needs to be said that even Frank Salter did not supply a convincing explanation for the trait, referring to and advancing the conclusion of other evolutionists that it offered a fitness gain in group-trust.  The thing here is that an understanding of it is not available while ethics is the ruling consideration.  One must cast out morality and focus relentlessly on the compromised and compromising quality of our ordinary waking consciousness.  One must (very obviously) put no trust in the social Man, the product of all that is acquired in us through life, which lives and breathes for us and robs us of a life of truth.  One must likewise never rely on formal religion or on all the life-gurus and charismatics.  One must realise that barely one person in a thousand understands anything very much in this sacred regard ... that we do not ordinarily understand anything ourselves, and that understanding is got not by intelligence or study, or faith, or spiritual living, but by the exercise of the attention and a resulting revival in the consciousness, and by nothing else.  Deity is simply not there.

Posted by timothy murray on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 01:48 | #

But @GW

those animaks had sub-70 iq intelligence.  There is no capacity for abstract thought, there was probably no concept of “me” or circumstance.

American blacks are notorious for obliviousness to White social norms….things like riding your bike down the centerline of a 4 lane busy street during rush hour.

Again, we hit the conflict between materialism/blind processes   and free-will, moral choices.

Early man , due to materialist forces, adapted to delude himself as a form of evolutionary fitness. This was done to him because he had no choice in the matter….

I am trying to think of creatures ( besides men) that delude themselves in order to survive.

cordially

 

Posted by timothy murray on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 01:53 | #

One must realise that barely one person in a thousand understands anything very much in this sacred regard ... that we do not ordinarily understand anything ourselves, and that understanding is got not by intelligence or study, or faith, or spiritual living, but by the exercise of the attention and a resulting revival in the consciousness, and by nothing else.  Deity is simply not there.

I will parse this , maybe tomorrow.

First impression….

eh….maybe tomorrow

 

 

Posted by timothy murray on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 02:00 | #

Light reading on Salter…

https://www.amren.com/news/2017/11/what-we-owe-our-people/

first impression, we are not our genes. to the materialist, we are.

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 10:33 | #

Cultural Marxism’s Origins:
How the Disciples of an Obscure Italian Linguist Subverted America

You may have heard the terms “Cultural Marxism,” “Critical Theory” or “Frankfurt School” bandied about. And while you might have an intuitive approximation of what these terms mean for America in the 21st century, there’s a good chance that you don’t know much about the deep theory, where the ideology comes from, and what it has planned for America – and the world.

The underlying theory here is a variant of Marxism, pioneered by early-20th-century Italian Marxist politician and linguist Antonio Gramsci. Gramscian Marxism is a radical departure from Classical Marxism. One does not need to endorse the Classical Marxism of Marx, Engels and others to appreciate the significant differences between the two. He is easily the most influential thinker that you have never heard of.

Marx’s original idea was that Communism was a historical inevitability, an evolutionary transition that would lead to a bottom-up eruption of revolutionary violence sparked by the Proletariat’s frustration and fury over having been used and abused by the Bourgeoisie for long enough that “the revolutionary subject” (Marx’s term for the broad working class) would overthrow capitalism and usher in socialism.

Gramsci, on the other hand, held that such a revolution was unlikely – particularly in the West, where general prosperity and the lassitude of relative contentment would tend to dull the working class’ passion for a bloody, bothersome overthrow. In successful Western nations, a Marxist state was far more likely to develop through a slow, patient process of incrementalist takeover of the cultural institutions – the arts, entertainment, and news media, and most especially the schools and universities. As such, the weapon to be used for revolution was not the economic might of an organized working class, but a “long march through the institutions” (a phrase actually coined by German Marxist Rudi Dutschke), whereby every institution in the West would be subverted through penetration and infiltration.

For Gramsci, culture was more important than either economics or politics.

Read more>> https://ammo.com/articles/cultural-marxism-gramsci-how-disciples-of-gramscian-marxism-subverted-america

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 12:28 | #

@GW on the grasslands/out of africa theory.

Tanstaafl did a podcast with Norvin Hobbs rebutting the Out of Africa theory.

http://age-of-treason.com/2019/01/20/discussing-dna-and-white-origins-with-norvin-hobbs/

On race origins, I am going to stick with DNA rather than speculations from pre-DNA scientists.

cordially,

t

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 12:36 | #

Thorn @40

They succeeded wildly.

They kicked the Protestant’s ass and the Protestants, faithful zionists that they are, never questioned the matter of the jews.

Turning that ship from the errors of Luther back in time to St. Augustine (or somebody else..Aquinas…) is my job.
Augustine is close enough to Plato/Aristotole/the ionian philosophers that common ground exists…heck , Christian Philosophy, as you know as
Faith (believing the revealed truths of God) in harmony with Reason.

Another thing on my plate is ripping the tools of education out of jewish hands and placing them in the hands of the Catholic church and paralleling that with secular versions, then remove then massively distribute it
like bit-torrent does.

websites like this one are pre-cursors to an expanded vision of this stuff.

We can see that the jews are weak. All they can do is control. Threaten their control and they freak out. rip control from them and they lose, again.

cordially,

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 12:46 | #

@GW regarding my comment @41

The genetic maps tell the tale.

One Race, the Canine Race

To repeat, to replace the emerging mathematics of Race with the hypothesis of pre-DNA scientists does not seem wise to me.

Perhaps they will converge and you will have mathematical proof of your thoughts on the origin of faith.

From the graphs given, I do not see it.

cordially,

aside: (grrrr….. read one damn TOO article on some guy named TANSTAAFL and end up in a fascinating intellectual exploration that will take 50 years to grasp)

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 13:01 | #

@Thorn regarding your comment @30

I just read part 1. I will read the remainder throughout the day…

This is spot on:

Why? Is it not obvious to anyone with the ability still to think that, if our overlords are deliberately pursuing policies designed to reduce the population of Group A whilst massively increasing the population of Group B, they have an agenda?

Notice how the isolation (control) of information supports that program. 

Now I am guilty of this (see the global warming hoax, what’s up with that, and other scientists who exposed the fraud that is global warming) , that is focusing on the facts rather thant he idealogues.
MacDonald made the principle clear in his discussion on the origins of the neocons and their program. Facts. Do. Not. Matter.  To. Them. neocons are ideologues They will assert anything, true or false to achieve their aims.

While attacking the particulars is extremely valuable, and I am extremely grateful for the men and women who fight these monsters with the facts, to assume that facts will deter them is to make a category error.

How does one defeat an ideologue? Where has it been done before? What were the strategies/tactics?

Its time to stop reacting to their initiatives and make them react.

That said, “waking up” is a first step and we are seeing that.

thank you for the link.

 

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 16:46 | #

Christian Philosophy, as you know as Faith (believing the revealed truths of God) in harmony with Reason.

Victor Orban calls it “Illiberal Christianity”. It seems to be working in Hungary.

Unfortunately, virtually all Christianity practiced in the West has devolved into “Woke Christianity”.

St. Martin (MLK Jr.) is White Christians’ fave saint. They swallowed the “anti-racist” ideology hook, line and sinker. There is no penetrating these mind-numbed sickos.

Shelby Steele, and black-man and a prominent expert in race relations, has made a very astute observation about whites’ peculiar self-sacrificing behavior. He notes: “Whites are under a great deal of pressure to prove they’re not racists thus they overcompensate.” (He disapproves of whites’ self-sacrificing behavior. He clearly sees how destructive it is to everyone involved.)

Conservative journalist Pedro Gonzalez (native-European roots) makes a similar observation about the white ruling-class: He came to recognize the white ruling-class appears to get perverse sexual pleasure from selling out their own race. He termed that condition as: “Psycho-sexual ethno-masochism.” Pretty spot-on, I think.

This aforementioned sickness seems to affect whites and whites only ... and it’s a relatively recent phenomenon - post WWII from what I gather. But the anti-white ideology really picked up steam during the culture wars in the 1960s. That’s when Leftist ideologies (mainly authored by Jewish academics/activists and funded by organized Jewry) took its debilitating grip on the unsuspecting minds of most whites.

It leaves us white race-realists as a tiny minority, indeed!

All others want to be seen as “race is a social construct” race-deniers. They make me want to puke!!!

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 20:52 | #

Victor Orban calls it “Illiberal Christianity”. It seems to be working in Hungary.

God uses the foolish things of the world….

Notice how the first victims of (((communism)) are now its most stalwart enemies.
Its like that movie of the Chronicles of Narnia trilogy, where Edmund, the boy who had eaten the cake, was now the warrior, the intolerant one.

Unfortunately, virtually all Christianity practiced in the West has devolved into “Woke Christianity”.

Where is its power? Where is its salt? it has none.

It leaves us white race-realists as a tiny minority, indeed!

Really?

Are you aware of the concept of Revealed Preferences?

In America you can see them in stark reality.
Find any Martin Luther King Blvd…
White people tend not to live there.
By choice.

MAGA is overwhelmingly white; as was America before she let the jews in.

cordially,

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 20:57 | #

@Thorn

Do not be blind to the constructed “let’s you and him fight” that the jews created…

Equality only exists in mathematics and logic, it does not exist in nature.

I wish the best for all the black peoples everywhere on earth.

Since every race , by design,  flourishes in amongst their own , it is best that we live as separate races in our own lands.

As Christians, we love God’s creation. I do, anyway, and we want what is best for the other…the very definition of love.

This is to say that I am not interested in propaganda that seeks to normalize what nature rejects.

God bless.

t

 

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 22:17 | #

Do not be blind to the constructed “let’s you and him fight” that the jews created

Our propensity to fight one another is built into our Human nature. 

I wish the best for all the black peoples everywhere on earth.

And I wish the best for white people everywhere on Earth.

Since every race , by design,  flourishes in amongst their own , it is best that we live as separate races in our own lands.

Whites flourish best amongst our own whilst separated from other races and living in our own lands.

Negroes benefit greatly by living amongst Whites. It’s a known fact that when blacks are separated from whites, every measurement of their and quality of life / standard of living declines precipitously - think Haiti. The reason is obvious, but most whites refuse to acknowledge that reason. That reason being the Negroid race is significantly intellectually inferior to that of native Europeans. In fact half the African American population ranges from borderline retarded to full-on retards. http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/retard.htm  Mention the data in The Bell Curve to your average white (be they a progtard or conservatard) and the go straight into denial mode. F’ers are too afraid to deal with the truth. They invariably hide behind their “moral principles”. But I suspect that those “moral principles” are really a thin disguise for their cowardice. 

At any rate, there is a perfect correlation between the percentage of blacks living in any given neighborhood to the quality of life there. The greater the percentage of blacks, the lower the quality of life. Hence, the continual repeating cycle of “white flight” here in Amerikwa.

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 04 Aug 2023 22:42 | #

@Thorn

We do not disagree, we just look at it diffently.

Cordially.

p.s. Larry Johnson at sonar21 just penned a very smart piece on the de-platforming of the smart-set….

https://sonar21.com/why-is-the-west-so-weak-and-russia-so-strong-the-role-of-human-capital-and-western-education/

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 05 Aug 2023 12:05 | #

@49

Tim,

That’s the best article I’ve read in decades. The author is spot-on to the max.

I’ve been experiencing/observing in real life - for the the last 50 years - what Johnson so accurately described.

In his book Slouching Towards Gomorrah, Robert Bork emphasized the difference between egalitarianism and radical-egalitarianism whereas the former strives to provide equal opportunity whilst the latter forces equal outcomes. Well the ruling-class is now thoroughly controlled by radical egalitarians. These radical egalitarians live in a delusional fantasy world in which their operating premise is perception is reality. They tossed Aristotle’s law of identity in the trash can. Thus they really think they can shape/change reality with their BS propaganda. The USA is running on fumes and the Chinese know it. Modern liberalism/Leftism destroyed the greatest civilization in all of history. I dread to think what this country will be like 7 short years from now. Whites had better smarten up or they will be forcefully enslaved and or exterminated.

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 05 Aug 2023 12:25 | #

From your article:

General competence requires three necessary conditions: a) High general intelligence or IQ, b) the ability to be objective, even in situations where the result of your conclusions may not be to your liking, and c) the ability to reach conclusions without being influenced by others (i.e. independent thinking). The latter two conditions are a direct result of how the human brain interacts with the environment.

Trump possesses all three qualities. Could that be why he is such a threat to the ‘woke” power structure? I think it is. I know it is.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Sat, 05 Aug 2023 12:53 | #

Hi Thorn,

I am glad you enjoyed the article. 

Regarding the “ruling class” and America…

America is ours, not theirs. They control our institutions. We are in the peculiar spot of facilitating the fall of “our” government in order to reclaim our lands for our Nations (America has/had 7(?) nations which live in different regions of the country, I am sure you have seen the maps).

Stated differently, the communists jews have successfully staged a communist revolution.

Its quite funny that the same bible-thumping protestants who so proudly conquered communism over there, where conquered here by the enemy they were supposedly fighting.
I blame Luther and his explicit rejection of reason in place of the protestant definition of faith for rendering them useless in the fight.

It is interesting how Luther’s lie cascades.

The Principle of the Integral Good states that for a thing to be good, it must be good in all its parts. One “not-good” renders the whole thing not good.
Ergo, the basic lie of the Enlightenment/Protestant thinkers was enough for the evil to leverage their way to power.

cordially

p.s. as you can tell, my language will take some years to tighten up. Terms like “Enlightenment/Protestant thinkers” are a muddled mess, but that is how we grow and learn.

 

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 05 Aug 2023 21:55 | #

America is ours, not theirs. They control our institutions.

America is lost to ethnocentric whites. It was destined to be that way since the enactment of the Hart-Cellar Act in 1965.

Whites are too f’ing cowardly to acknowledge that fact. What the fuck can we do about whites being so cowardice? ... so anti-ethnocentric? Beats the fuck out of me!! Maybe GW has some theories about as to why. My explanation is whites are afflicted by a combination of stupidity and cowardice.

The combination of stupidity and cowardice provides the prime opportunity for Jewish predictors to prey on on us. Even low IQ blacks are taking maximum advantage of whites’ cowardice. Who is it that says blacks are not capitalists? lol

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 05 Aug 2023 22:02 | #

Jewish predators, not predictors.

Posted by timothy murray on Sun, 06 Aug 2023 01:20 | #

Hi Thorn

Genes and cowardice vs “Faith” and cowardice.

which is it?

If we are our genes then we cannot be cowardly….because genes,
.I don’t believe what I just typed; it is a trivial thought experiment.

The virtue in opposition to cowardice is courage.

Courage is not fearlessness.
Courage is doing what must be done even when one is terrified

I know that the 1/3 of u.s residents who are American are courageous, even if , legitimately, frightened by the communist/jewish coup that happened under their feet .

To my mind, .....well….let’s put it this way…

A pit-bull went trotting down my street today and I have a very old pet I am fond of.

Stone cold, I grabbed my 45 and ran towards the problem.
That reaction has happened to me two other times here in Appalachia and each time I have been a bit suprised by my reflexes….

I know, at least up here in Appalachia , that most people are that way…

actually its worse…these guys kill trophy deer, cut the testicles off of them and , take a picture of the bloody nuts in their bloody hands and i.m. their buddies.

The war is here and my people know it. We will run to the fight when we just know it…l
like me running towards that pit bull.

cordially.

 

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 06 Aug 2023 11:48 | #

Tim,

I’ve always had deep respect for the hillbillies’ warrior spirit. Of all white people, I find them to be some of the most, if not the most, gutsiest and ballsiest.

But what I’m pointing out is whites’ lack of bravery when it comes to fighting for their own race’s survival. They would rather see their own race go extinct than be thought of as a racist. Most whites will not even acknowledge racial differences exist - even in the obvious biological sense. They think doing so would be racist thus they avoid the issue. It’s really quite amazing.

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 06 Aug 2023 15:35 | #

Bwahahahahahahaha!!!! Some of the most outspoken articulate and effective critiques of Jews are Jews. And, yes, she certainly is a “Jew-y Jew. The scary kind.” LMAO!!!

The former star of the sitcom, “Roseanne,” told the host, “Nobody died in the Holocaust, either. That’s the truth.” She continued: “It should happen — 6 million Jews should die right now because they cause all the problems in the world, but it never happened.” Von asked, “You’re part Jewish, right?” Barr responded, “I’m all Jewish. 100 percent.”

The comedian and actor claimed that Jewish people started Hollywood and have since run it like “an organized crime network.” Von asked, “Was it weird when Hollywood went against you because you’re Jewish?” And Barr replied, “Well, Hollywood Jews don’t like Jews, let’s be real,” adding, “I’m a Jew, and I got fired from Jewish Hollywood.” She also said, “I’m a Jew-y Jew. I’m the scary kind.”

https://buzzloving.com/roseanne-barrs-bizarre-claims-nobody-died-in-the-holocaust-and-six-million-jews-should-die-right-now-promote-dangerous-rhetoric/

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Mon, 07 Aug 2023 13:37 | #

But what I’m pointing out is whites’ lack of bravery when it comes to fighting for their own race’s survival. They would rather see their own race go extinct than be thought of as a racist. Most whites will not even acknowledge racial differences exist - even in the obvious biological sense. They think doing so would be racist thus they avoid the issue. It’s really quite amazing.

During Black Lives Matter, the president of the company I was working for had a company wide meeting (very, very big manufacturing company with a plant near me).
Prior to the meeting, I asked my line-lead what it was about and nobody there wanted any part of it.

Funny thing is that after work that day, on the drive out to the main road, somebody had placed a Confederate Flag over the powerline above the road; it was awesome.

So, yes, we are racially aware of who we are.

cordially,

 

 

Posted by timothy murray on Tue, 08 Aug 2023 00:42 | #

Hi Thorn.

Apparently the “something cannot come from nothing”  comes from an Islamic scholar* via the

Kalam Cosmological Argument

I am curious as to the objections to it.

*Jones is very active in Iran

Posted by timothy murray on Tue, 08 Aug 2023 00:46 | #

Hi Thorn

Jones also wrote of Bertrand (Why I am an Athiest) Russel getting demolished in a debate where Russell’s opponent argues drom someting called The Argument From Contigency

That looks like good fun too.

cordially

Posted by timothy murray on Tue, 08 Aug 2023 01:07 | #

went searching for arguments against the cosmological argument and its

sorry ass propaganda

last I checked, Penrose was looking for a mathematics to support his needed physics..

Hawking proposed as H-somebody space as the nothing which created something. 

Video is typical propaganda…air-brained female quoting others at the direction of those who buy her lunch.

I will keep an eye out for less than desperate arguments, but since top search engine present what ‘they’ want you to think, its looking pretty lame

cordially

 

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 08 Aug 2023 07:24 | #

It is pretty useless to us to speculate on the origin of the universe, if origin itself even has a definable meaning to which people can subscribe.  Prior to an inflating universe of constantly fluxing matter and energy were massless particles.  The standard model of particle physics, string theory, dark matter theory, etc apply to that.  As yet, Yahweh does not apply, nor any earlier and no less likely products of the imaginations of men.

There are more interesting and profitable subjects to address.  For example, what is faith and how did it evolve.  What is its fitness gain?  Why is it not uniformly transmitted?  Can it still be useful or has it simply been overtaken by empirical thinking?

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 08 Aug 2023 12:06 | #

Prior to an inflating universe of constantly fluxing matter and energy were massless particles.  The standard model of particle physics, string theory, dark matter theory, etc apply to that.

All that scientific work - their theories and discoveries - amount to nothing more than man’s admirable attempts to understand the forces/mechanisms of how God’s universe operates and came into existence. So far they’ve barely scratched the surface.

Why is it not uniformly transmitted?

No two human beings are the same. Each person experiences “faith” in their own particular unique way.   

 

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 08 Aug 2023 12:08 | #

@59

Tim,

That is an excellent concise vid. I certainly have no objections to it.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Tue, 08 Aug 2023 12:33 | #

It is pretty useless to us to speculate on the origin of the universe, if origin itself even has a definable meaning to which people can subscribe.

We could have said the same about the early Greeks considering what reality is…Air, Fire, Water…eventually we got to atoms…which lose their being when they turn to energy and we get to Plato (Heisenberg’s realization , per Jones in Logos Rising)

  Prior to an inflating universe of constantly fluxing matter and energy were massless particles.  The standard model of particle physics, string theory, dark matter theory, etc apply to that.

From my reading, this is failing too.  To accept them as true is an article of faith.

What were you materialists accusing us theists of again?

 

 

 

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 08 Aug 2023 17:22 | #

Thorn, acceptance of some assertion on the basis of its empirical proof is not faith, even though one is not oneself present at the proof.  The acceptance of which you speak requires the activation of the faith trait (ie, the trait which, if present in the genome and, then, if expressed, centres in the higher emotional structure).  We do have to be clear about this distinction, or the discussion always runs into the denialism of the stubbornly religious, which will never be admitted anyway.  It becomes a pointless exchange, satisfying to no one.

Of course the parties continue to be divided by the possession / non-possession of the trait.  But at least some room can be made for disagreement if distinctions are respected and absolute dominance is not pursued.

Tim, the early Greeks may have been closer to an answer than the Israelites with their ethno-god.

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 08 Aug 2023 19:13 | #

Of course the parties continue to be divided by the possession / non-possession of the trait.  But at least some room can be made for disagreement if distinctions are respected and absolute dominance is not pursued

.

Fair enough. I can respect that.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Tue, 08 Aug 2023 20:07 | #

The early Greeks derived God. The debates of that time (according to Jones) involved God , who is perfect in Himself and has no need of anything…including Man, having anything to do with man; “I am perfect, why bother” sort of stuff. There is a formal name for the phenomena/idea. St. Augustine and St. John ended that line of discussion…somehow (again, precision needed that I do not yet have)

Jones also admired Heraclitus who stated that fire is the fundamental substance of the universe….always coming into being and flaming out…it is a beautiful model.

Regarding “The Ethno God”

That is an interesting distinction….to the jew, God belongs to them and nobody else.

Christianity blew that up…I do not think that this is what you folks call Christian universality, where God belongs to all of Creation; rather, I think you mean something else by it…roughly speaking…the inability to admit racial differences because…god…and the associated verse from St. Paul that is always taken out of context.

faith.. (ie, the trait which, if present in the genome and, then, if expressed, centres in the higher emotional structure).

This explains a lot. It is your morning star; the predicate about which you base your arguments and thinking.
I can see why eliminating abiogenesis and thinking about first-things are convenient for you…it simplifies things and allows you to focus on an interesting hypothesis.

cordially

 

 

 

 

Posted by timothy murray on Tue, 08 Aug 2023 21:19 | #

Hi Thorn

Here is an absolutely fascinating data-point

  The second is that the two argued on the basis of reason alone. The priest defended the ability of reason, while the atheist arbitrarily denied its ability.

This from a review of the debate between Copleston and Bertrand Russell where Copleston utilized the argument from contigency….whatever that is.

I just started reading it   but found the quote fascinating because the typical athiest insists on the primacy of reason.

 

https://www.quora.com/?signup_answer_page=160097099

quora looks like good fun. we shall see.

cordially

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 08 Aug 2023 23:26 | #

@69

The Bertrand Russell / Copleston debate is a demonstration of the definition of “punching down.” 

Yes, lots of fun.

Poor, Bertrand.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Wed, 09 Aug 2023 12:01 | #

Hi Thorn,

The Argument from Contingency is similar to the “turtles all the way down”. There is some subtlety…they talk of “contingent beings” and not, IIRC, “contingent things”. But I will have to double check that when I study it formally.

During the debate, it is apparent that like law, philosophy has a set of customs or definitions that they are familiar with.

Russell is important because he came up with a proof, from predicate(?) logic that demonstrated that an accepted ‘fact’ of that time could not be true, thereby disproving a certain other philosopher.

I am going to find that proof and study it. From my reading on Mathematical proofs in “How to think like a mathematician” they rely on set theory for their work, and proofs themselves often map from mathematical statements to logical structures and if they pass those, they are considered proved.

 

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Wed, 09 Aug 2023 12:34 | #

Hi Thorn,

Leibniz’s division is the point in Jones book that I see as the split between Classical thought and Enlightenment thought.
From the Coppleston/Russel debate…

R: “Necessary Being”
The word “Necessary” can only be applied significantly to analytical propositions, i.e. ones which it is self-contradictory to deny.

Two types of truths (Leibniz’s division)

truths of reason → true for mind only → solely analytical proposition
truths of fact

In the debate, both Copleston and Russel are fluent in the definitions and can switch idioms with elegance.

Back to Jones’ I finished the chapter on Neitzche and in it I see the birth of rock and roll, the re-orienting of music from mind to lust.
It is fascinating seeing the roots of it.

I also learned the Bach created the Circle of Fifth’s and from there, Beethoven ran with it.

Wonderful stuff.

cordially,

t

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 09 Aug 2023 14:41 | #

In the debate, both Copleston and Russel are fluent in the definitions and can switch idioms with elegance.

True that. But what jumps out at me is the diametrically opposed premises these very well schooled gents base their conclusions on. Russell bases his conclusion on the flawed premise that the universe always existed whereas Copleston bases his conclusion on the premise that the universe has a first cause and that first cause is God.

Re, Nietzsche. He’s one of those who hated/rejected Christianity and thought of it as a great big Jewish plot designed to destroy native Europeans. Of course his mindset was fueled by his deep seated hostility toward Jews and Judaism. Moreover, Nietzsche believed there is no God and that divine rules are merely human inventions.

Posted by Guessedworker on Thu, 10 Aug 2023 06:22 | #

Why would first cause be the Jewish g-d?  Why not Anu or perhaps a much older god ... the first god to be thought of, anthropomorphised, represented and named, but forgotten long before the first human migration?  If the first something-in-nothing was indeed a god, why would it be non-created itself?  What was it doing sitting for uncountable aeons in nothing?  Why, anyway, would there be nothing (except this god) before something?  Where did “before” come from?  Why would the human concept of linear time be relevant in the first place?  Or the second, come to that?  Why is a god needed to create when we have a perfectly good candidate in Accident?  Why does the human mind require meaning when meaning must mean “some thing” because humans cannot know the truth of “no thing”?

And so forth.  And here is another one:

What happened to the devil, who was such a big deal in the Middle Ages?  What is the devil?  What is temptation?  What is sin?

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 10 Aug 2023 13:08 | #

Why would first cause be the Jewish g-d?

GW, for purposes of answering the question of “first cause”, first we must dispel the notion of ex nihilo (out of nothing) .. or out of nothing comes something. An exercise in infinite regress brought me to the realization there must have been a “first cause” and best explanation for that “first cause” is something supernatural (beyond our finite comprehension) created the universe and all contained in it. I call that “something supernatural” God.

To give credibility to the first three chapters of the Book of Genesis etc. is another matter - a secondary matter. A matter of choice.

Posted by Guessedworker on Thu, 10 Aug 2023 21:29 | #

Thorn, are massless particles something or nothing, for the purposes of your thinking?

The reification of deity is only a response to your innate emotional need.  Is it really not clear to you that when we discuss deity we are not discussing Origin, we are discussing faith and faiths?  The whole subject matter is sociobiological and psychological.

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 10 Aug 2023 22:41 | #

Thorn, are massless particles something or nothing, for the purposes of your thinking?

Are they not something that emerged from the Big Bang? So yes, they are something.

The reification of deity is only a response to your innate emotional need.

Nope. It’s a conclusion reached from an exercise in reason and logic.

Is it really not clear to you that when we discuss deity we are not discussing Origin, we are discussing faith and faiths?

Be it belief in deity or material atheism, we are all people of faith. I explained that to you a while back. 

The whole subject matter is sociobiological and psychological.

In your “all-encompassing interpretation” of the subject matter it is. “Some” of us have a very different perspective.

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 11 Aug 2023 02:41 | #

@thorn

Nice response.

@GW wrote:

What was it doing sitting for uncountable aeons in nothing?  Why, anyway, would there be nothing (except this god) before something?  Where did “before” come from?  Why would the human concept of linear time be relevant in the first place?

There is no time in Eternity, except maybe as a trifle. Eternity and Forever are not the same thing. Joseph Campbell, who I do not think was a Christian explains this quite well.

Think of time as created by God as an act of creation.  What are uncountable aeons to such a being?
Why do you presume that Eternity is sitting around doing nothing; consider the opposite that it is more intense, more real, more active than our experience.

C.S. Lewis, an athiest and materialist who became a convert wrote a book that depicted Eternity…The Great Divorce…perhaps, maybe another one…as more real than our world.

What happened to the devil, who was such a big deal in the Middle Ages?  What is the devil?

Related to the idea that Eternity is more real than our experience is the idea that spiritual beings are more real than we are. I know this from experience; you do not.

The devil was the highest of Angels in heaven, he rebelled (Non serviam ). He chose this; in doing this, he was expelled himself from Heaven. According to Catholic doctrine, 1/3 of the angels were expelled with him.
Now, he is the inverse of what he was.

it exists….the man who played Hannibel Lector was sure to keep Father Gary Banks (an exorcist and the subject of the movie The Rite) by his side at the red-carpet thing for the movie; they were frightened.

Or, you can read an ongoing blog by an exorcist here: https://www.catholicexorcism.org/post/exorcist-diary-252-her-gods-were-demons

Or, you can watch Fr. Chad Ripperger , a Thomist who has written a book on Psychology that inverts the inversions of Freud. His series on the similarities between demons and communists is spot on.

What is temptation?  What is sin?

Let’s reverse these as the former depends on the latter.

Sin is enmity with God. Satan sinned. He removed himself from the divine order.

Man, who was created with free will chose to sin, to follow the fallen angel in the Garden of Eden.
Eve was tempted, she chose to disobey God.

Temptation is just that, the desire/need to rebel against God’s order.

Why is a god needed

Where did your idea of “needed” come from? 

to create when we have a perfectly good candidate in Accident?

Because Accident is not a good candidate, it is not even a candidate. 

For life to exist, RNA must exist…for RNA to exist without God, is a mathematical impossibility (I don’t have a link handy)
Or, the transcript I posted earlier where Dawkins was flummoxed by the reality of information flow in junk-dna.

You guys had a good run with the construction of the Geological Time Scale/Strata , the discovery of dinosaur fossils etc. But then Crick discovered DNA ...and here we are.

In summary, these things are not mental exercises or flights of fancy for Catholics; We do not delude ourselves. We just see further than athiests do.

Also…thank your for your website. It is nice to be able to discuss these things . Your patience is much appreciated.

cordially.

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 11 Aug 2023 11:18 | #

Thorn,

Are they not something that emerged from the Big Bang? So yes, they are something.

So what about the four (and now maybe five) forces?  Are they something or nothing?  And what about uniformity (ie, a Singularity beyond physical measurement), heat, density?  What is the relation of these to something and to nothing?

It’s a conclusion reached from an exercise in reason and logic.

It’s an immediately accessible, observable fact that religious claims are emotionally-grounded.  Faith is a complex in the higher emotions.  The higher emotions are evolved faculties of Mind, corresponding in the human intellect to the capacity for rationality and abstraction.  Not everyone has genes for faith or genes for the capacity for rationality and abstraction.

The higher emotions evolved much earlier than high intellectual capacity.  A basic faith-feeling might have come along 100,000 years ago.  There is nothing to say its rudiments are not much older and pre-human.  We know the volume of early human/hominid brains:

... But we cannot know their structure, or the functions of that structure.

Be it belief in deity or material atheism, we are all people of faith. I explained that to you a while back.

Let’s knock this one on the head.  Faith is not reason.  Reason is not faith.  Acceptance of the results of empirical studies and experiments, even though the acceptor did not participate in them, is reason-able.  It is not faith-related.

“Some” of us have a very different perspective.

I accept that the denizens of the exoteric circle desire to be structured morally and religiously.  But that structure should have the potential to lead the best of them (ie, those in whom certain questions are present) through the gate to the esoteric.  We cannot “defeat” faith-feeling, and should not attempt to.  It should, though, have a fit point of religious reference (fundamentally tribal) and it should have an esoteric core to return men to presence to their being, or at least knowledge thereof.  These things best run together.  It should also run in parallel with intellectually-based knowledge, ie, it should not be based on it but, equally, it should not be in conflict with it; and that includes cosmological theory, evolution, and psychology.

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 11 Aug 2023 12:42 | #

Tim, “eternity” simply does not describe objective reality.  It is of the imagination, a rather flowery and plain loose descriptive which one may sometimes use when not really thinking seriously.  Whether it is interchangeable with “forever and ever” is only a matter of context, but not objective and demonstrable truth.  Any speaker using it to indicate such truth has already resiled into religious thinking (which, of course, will be hedged about with private affirmations and certainties, often hidden from the speaker’s own view because that is the nature of faith, and not at all meeting the requirements for objective truth).  If you base an argument on eternity you will produce another statement of your faith.  It will always be so.

The all-too-eternal difficulty in debate between those in whom faith is operative and those in whom it is absent ... not just inoperative but absent ... is precisely the operation of those underlying and generally unstated private affirmations and certainties; because (a) they port no meaning across the void whatsoever, and (b) they do not contain the possibility of change, and therefore they are anti-knowledge.  All religion reduces to dictate in the end, and at most times in the European past that dictate has been accompanied by the threats of expulsion and death.  No one seeking to expand the knowledge of humankind ever needed to kill a faithist of one kind or another.

But then, no faithist, on hearing the call to move on from faith ever experienced anything but recoil (quote, “Accident is not even a candidate”, unquote); because there is no alternative to their having faith.  The genes are expressed ... Yahweh speaks to them personally and guides their life!

I would say the minimum requirement is for non-faithists to accept the inevitability of faith in others; and for faithists to accept the inevitability of intellectual seriousness likewise.  Of course, Christians should also de-Christianise and repatriate Yahweh as a matter of our racial survival.  But faith ...

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 11 Aug 2023 12:55 | #

Weyl fermions are what’s known as quasiparticles, which means they can only exist in a solid such as a crystal, and not as standalone particles. But further research will help scientists work out just how useful they could be. .

Define exist.

That sentence suggests a change in state .

Or is particle physics the new evolution; the new DNA? An obscure bucket into which you can pin your desire that there is no God.

“The physics of the Weyl fermion are so strange, there could be many things that arise from this particle that we’re just not capable of imagining now,” said Hasan

It appears that @GuessedWorker is pinning his hopes on man’s mind not being able to apprehend reality.

That Descarte’s thing with the pencil that he knows is straight being bent when submerged in water. Or, an Asp being able to see in the infra-red or the Bee in the ultra-violet…men cannot do that, therefore, men are not built for reality.

This is the/a philosophical issue at the root of @GW’s pyramid. I am confident that the issue has a name and that it has been well discussed.

Let’s knock this one on the head.  Faith is not reason.  Reason is not faith.

Agreed.
But Catholics are rational as God is Rational…i.e. Logos.
Since God is above us, there are times that we cannot comprehend. In these things we pray and ask God for guidance, accepting that sometimes “no” is an answer, sometimes “wait” is an answer.
The last two centuries is an good example of the latter, God is dead and all that.

@Thorn, be wary of accepting your opponents faulty pre-suppositions, you will be his dancing marionette if you are not careful.

“Do massless particles exist or not?” is an example.

from the linked article, we see clearly that sometimes they do, sometimes they do not.

It is like @GW is talking to Descartes as they watch the water that contains the pencil refract the light that and asking “Is the pencil bent or not?”

Somebody writing about the discovery of massless particles is not the same thing as asserting that they exist*, as the linked article plainly shows.
It is a fascinating question, because it is a contradiction in definitions—although specialists may define “particles” differently than non-specialists.
Welcome to ~(p & ~p) , the law of non-contradiction.

That article was written in 2015. It will be fascinating to see what has unfolded since.

cordially,

*In my initial study of the Geological Time Scale in Wikipedia, the repeated efforts of idealogues to insert abiogenesis into the record is amusing. They want something to be true, so it must be true.

p.s. the “take the step into the esoteric” has a pedigree in Modernism…Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and his Omega Point being one such thing.
p.p.s if you haven’t read Martin’s The Jesuits, do so. Ignatius of Loyala set out to out-jew the jew in infiltration into all spheres of human activity. It lit my mind on fire.

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 11 Aug 2023 15:25 | #

The article I linked to was from 2015.

Here is 2021 Nature article stating that they have not been observed.  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41578-021-00301-3

First proposed in 1929 in the context of particle physics, Weyl fermions have yet to be observed as elementary particles. In 2015, Weyl fermions were detected as collective electronic excitations in the strong spin–orbit coupled material tantalum arsenide, TaAs.

Regardless, when we discover massless things, naming them “particles” will be the destruction of language. 

 

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 11 Aug 2023 17:46 | #

Some dictionary definitions of faith:

strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
“bereaved people who have shown supreme faith”

a system of religious belief.

a strongly held belief or theory.

something that is believed especially with strong conviction.

a firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

GW, when I say you, as an atheist, are just as much a person of faith as any Christian, I base that on this: Just as I cannot prove there is a God or gods neither can you disprove there is no God or gods. Your belief there is no God or gods is based on your faith. I.e., your strong belief in something for which there is no proof. For example your admitted belief/idea the universes and all contained in it probably came about by “Accident”. Furthermore you have a strongly held theory that man, through science and discovery, will someday explain, step by step, how that “Accident” occurred . GW, you, yourself, with your own words provide proof that your “faith gene” is very robust and active.

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 11 Aug 2023 21:17 | #

Tim, I am constitutionally incapable of caring about gods.  If a real one, or the son of one, came up to me at 9.00 am tomorrow morning I would only want to know what good it could do for my suffering people.  Physical manifestation is the only basis upon which I would accept its facticity, and aid to my people is the only basis on which I would accept its benignity.  But no love or worship would be tended from me – that’s a faith behaviour, and I don’t have any.

However, that manifestation may not be exactly likely.  In your heart even you know that only faith affirms gods - to no real-world effect whatsoever.  Just saying it’s Yahweh at the beginning of the universe and Yahweh at the beginning of life on earth proves absolutely nothing.  Be humble, then - leave the arrogance and unpleasantness to those like myself who employ reason to cut and slash at the object of your love.  Be curious - accept nothing from Jewish-authored scripture beyond the name of the Jewish god: I am that I am, for in that is all there is for us that is not empirical knowledge.

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 11 Aug 2023 21:20 | #

Thorn, it is a basic rule of logic that one can’t prove - or disprove - a broad and negative claim.

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 11 Aug 2023 22:39 | #

@85

GW,

What we’re talking about is atheism being a faith. I thought it was a given - common knowledge - that just about everyone understood that atheism is a faith or religion. I’m kind of amused that you’re so loath to admit it; especially since it’s so obvious that you’re very faithful to the faith of atheism.

I did a quick search of using the search words “faith and atheism” and as you might imagine there is no shortage of excellent articles on the subject. This was the first one on the list:

Atheism is a Faith
April 11, 2012

a·the·ism
noun: atheism
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
Origin

late 16th century: from French athéisme, from Greek atheos, from a- ‘without’ + theos ‘god.’

“Atheism is a faith just like any other faith. It is founded on a belief, not on fact or science. The word “atheism” means “no belief.” However, atheists actually do believe; it is just that they believe in “nothing.” They believe that there is no God. In spite of all their claims to the contrary, atheists must still rely upon the same resources for their convictions as do all other believers: namely, their faith. The only difference is their faith is directed towards nothing. They believe there is no “thing” out there. No God. No supernatural. No Devil. No purpose or meaning to life. Yet, they are no more rational in their beliefs than Christians are in theirs. The atheist’s lack of belief in God is simply an article of faith.

The problem atheists face is that you cannot prove that “nothing” exists. Nothing is the “absence” of some-thing. It isn’t a thing. It isn’t there, so you can’t show it. You cannot prove “nothing” is true. At most, you may find nothing where you are looking, but it does not mean there isn’t that thing somewhere else! For the same reason, you cannot prove the non-existence of God, because then you’d be trying to prove that “nothing” exists, which can’t be done. In fact, even to be an atheist and believe that God isn’t, you must first assume that God is, or you have nothing to not believe in! So, the idea of God’s existence is necessary in order for anyone to not believe in him. Atheists need God to have a faith that there is no God.

By all traditional definitions, God is not material. He can’t be tasted, touched, seen, or felt. He can’t be measured or put under a microscope. You cannot subject him to the scientific method, because you cannot measure by material science that which is Spirit. God isn’t earth, wind, or fire. He isn’t lightening or gravity or the vacuum of space. So, how on earth could you “prove” that God is not? All you can do is point to what you can see, hear, or feel and say, “that is not God,” or “I don’t see him.” You may speak of what you know, but you cannot really speak of what you do not know. And if you don’t know God, how can you speak about him at all, either for good or ill?

The realm of our experience is so limited and finite, all we could hope to say with any certainty is: “I haven’t experienced God.” But just because we haven’t experienced God does not mean he does not exist. We are not omniscient or omnipresent, so our experience is limited and tiny. All we know is in our small realm. For us to assert then, that “there is no God” requires a tremendous leap of faith. Maybe it requires even more faith to believe that there is no God than it does to believe that there is one. Listen to the faith of the atheist: “I, from my limited and tiny dot of existence on this small planet, am certain that there is no God. Even though I have not experienced all the vastness of the universe, I am certain I am right because I am so perceptive that I know what the rest of the universe holds.” Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? But that is just what the atheist is asserting when he declares that there is no God. My question is always, “How on earth could he know?” The truth is, he can’t. He is acting in faith. If faith is your only evidence, then you might as well believe that He is as believe that He isn’t!”

read more>> https://www.scholarscorner.com/atheism-is-a-faith/

 

 

Posted by timothy murray on Sat, 12 Aug 2023 00:11 | #

  Tim, I am constitutionally incapable of caring about gods.  If a real one, or the son of one, came up to me at 9.00 am tomorrow morning I would only want to know what good it could do for my suffering people.  Physical manifestation is the only basis upon which I would accept its facticity, and aid to my people is the only basis on which I would accept its benignity.  But no love or worship would be tended from me – that’s a faith behaviour, and I don’t have any.

you are a bit of a piker here…

Given the enormity of evil we see all about us, utter hatred is in order.
If you haven’t peed on God’s grave , danced on it, flung curses at the heavens,  then you are not in the game. 

  However, that manifestation may not be exactly likely.  In your heart even you know that only faith affirms gods - to no real-world effect whatsoever.

This is ignorance on stilts at Temple Bar; I am afraid you left your head there.

God exists, or He does not.

An honest man brooks no bullshit, no lies, no pretence…as the Catholic Shakespeare wrote, unto thy own self be true.

That faith is pretence in the face of objective reality is exactly why I left Christianity (Protestantism at that time).

If God exists, “Prove it” said I to the hypothital “God”

He did.  Let me expand that He FUCKING proved it.

There is no doubt, there is no pretense, there is only faith…my hard earned belief in the revealed truths of God (which you ignore, which is the ubiquitous tendency of all of us fallen men).

This transformation is ubiquitous…Chambers, Lewis, those dudes in the Logos Study group I linked to above…

Now, I absolutely agree that many ‘faith leaders’ are con artists…Revilo P. Oliver observed several such liars. I commiserate; there is no There There .

For you to presume, as I suspect , but do not know, as Oliver did is a failure of due diligence on your part…due diligence means addressing the imaginary “God” directly or obliquely. (Lewis took the oblique route via reason)

  Be humble, then - leave the arrogance and unpleasantness to those like myself who employ reason to cut and slash at the object of your love.

Dude! I revel in arrogance and and the unpleasant. Have you met Al?

Also, you reason from false premises.  While it is true that logic limits itself to the stated premises and the logicaly derived conclusion, Logic does not concern itself with the validity of the stated premises in the logical argument.

Logic is a tool of rational men; Logic . is not Reason

You insist on premises that do not hold up to rational scrutiny.

Thank you for your work here and your open forum. Most Christians cannot take the heat, you do.

Cordially

 

 

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 12 Aug 2023 18:09 | #

I am not an atheist, Thorn.  A-theism is already predicated on the assumption that the human “way” is theism, and those who do not follow it have separated themselves from a theistic reality.  That is not the case.  The opposite of theism is real-world living.  Those who interpolate gods into their world-vision have given themselves over to a non-reality - in the same way, and for the same reason, that many ideological leftists follow the god of human sameness into a non-real vision of the world.  Both are forms of illusory thinking (the latter is a pathology, obviously).

You keep on returning to the something/nothing gambit without the slightest possibility of demonstrating (a) that nothing did in fact precede something, or (b) what would actually constitute nothing, never mind why it would take a god to change whatever constitutes nothing into something.  Suppose so many degrees of non-material subtlety that “absolute nothing” is never reached.  Suppose nothing is not an isolate and multiversal exteriorities can introduce Accident.

The acid test is mundane reality, not religious experience.  You have never seen a god in this world.  Nor has anyone else.  When you do, and can prove the fact, then your world-vision will be real, even with gods in it.  Until then all you can say is that you personally feel a god present, and there are people - perhaps you know some - who have had a moving experience in which it seemed like a god of All and Everywhere was at hand.  I can grant you and them sincerity in such beliefs.  But the world bears no mark of them, nor did it ever do so.  They belong, have always belonged, to Mind.

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 12 Aug 2023 19:37 | #

You keep on returning to the something/nothing gambit without the slightest possibility of demonstrating (a) that nothing did in fact precede something, or (b) what would actually constitute nothing, never mind why it would take a god to change whatever constitutes nothing into something.  Suppose so many degrees of non-material subtlety that “nothing” is never reached?

GW,

Briefly in a nutshell and I’ll put it to rest. I pointed out that atheists believe that something came from nothing. Or more accurately: ultimately everything came from nothing. 

I believe that that something (let’s use the Big Bang as a prime example of something) had a cause and it was caused by God.

There was never a condition of nothing (or nihility if that’s the correct word), bc God always existed. That last part (God always existed) is well beyond human’s finite mental capacity to _fully_ comprehend. 

 

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 12 Aug 2023 20:00 | #

I don’t care what atheists believe.  They argue about the validity of religious belief.  They may, as you say, believe religiously in the validity of their conclusions.  I am not arguing from belief but from - and about - life, and must do so because I cannot argue from belief (in the sense of faith).

You must give up the universalistic idea that all belief has the same quality of knowing, and all belief can be taken as the operation of faith.  We must be more cautious and precise in handling these categories, or we cannot arrive at a common understanding.  I make room in my thinking for faith, explain it and assign it to its place.  That includes a model of the Fall which I have titled the Ontological Transit.  It is perfectly straightforward for me to deal in the matters of the like ancient models of the devil, temptation, and so forth.  I am not denying religion but finding its meaning.  Come with me.

Posted by Timothy on Sat, 12 Aug 2023 22:33 | #

“You have never seen a god in this world.  Nor has anyone else”

this is stubborn denial on stilts.

Watch Fr. Chad Rippergers ir Fr. Gary Banks and other exorcists.

They reguraly see demons manifest.

You cannot call these men liars, you cannot call them stupid.

When evidence is presented you refuse to observe it. 

At your death, your worldview will collapse .

cordially

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 12 Aug 2023 23:00 | #

Several Mesoamerican tribes practised human sacrifice, Tim.  The practise probably went back thousands of years.  Their religion told them that the gods would provide for and protect the tribe in exchange for the blood of the victims.  They must have believed that their gods were real and the benefit genuinely flowed.

The question is not whether they were right or wrong to have such a faith, but whether faith is always and everywhere heedless of reality.

Posted by timothy murray on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 03:04 | #

@GuessedWorker

The Aztecs are not and were not on youtube or bitchute.

If they were would you watch/listen to them?

Would you try to understand them? 

Or is it more of your habit of “Empirical evidence for thee but not for me”  ?

To date, I have seen no evidence of you doing due diligence and “breaking frame”.

I will light a candle before Holy Mass at the Basillica tomorrow and pray that you grow a pair of stones and learn to think.

cordially

 

Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 06:45 | #

Due diligence?  Bitchute?  Tim, I am already letting you off the hook with your remarks about logic and reason because I have no use for conquest over you.  If it were possible, though, I would encourage you to go beyond the formalities of your faith.  For example, there is no mechanism by which prayer can effect change in or for other people.  It is a mechanism, but one lost long, long ago in its own ritual and repetition such that all that is left is just words uttered with or without fine feelings.  The mechanism’s original purpose was a return to life’s reality when “I am”.  There is only “I am” and “We are” - the esoteric and exoteric circles of a fit, living tribal faith system (which northern Europeans probably still possessed before the Christ cult was imposed upon them).

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 10:49 | #

Reality check:

Before the rise of Christianity, northern European pagans were practicing ritual human sacrifice. Christianity put an end to it.

Re, human sacrifice among northern European pagans:

google search

Posted by Timothy Murray on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:09 | #

If it were possible, though, I would encourage you to go beyond the formalities of your faith.

You assume I never had. Bad assumptions are your stock-in-trade.

  It is a mechanism, but one lost long, long ago in its own ritual and repetition such that all that is left is just words uttered with or without fine feelings.  The mechanism’s original purpose was a return to life’s reality when “I am”.  There is only “I am” and “We are” - the esoteric and exoteric circles of a fit, living tribal faith system (which northern Europeans probably still possessed before the Christ cult was imposed upon them).

Pining for the fjords are we?

Your continued pattern of behaviour is to ignore today and reach back to a past that you constructed and imagine to have been just-so. 

Later this week, by Tuesday, I suspect, I will provide links to 3 prominent exorcists who are doing active , busy work today.

They are far more sane , more rooted in reality, AND the ancient past than you are. 

You see, for demons, the past and here and now are one and the same.

If demons exist, then angels exist (they do) and if angels exist, God exists.

No convoluted proofs, just good, noble, honest, gentle men talking about their vocation in life.

GW, I think you are cowardly. Your continued avoidance is typical behaviour among your type.

cordially,

p.s.

Tim, I am already letting you off the hook with your remarks about logic and reason because I have no use for conquest over you.

You overestimate yourself. 

If I said something false, post it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:12 | #

@thorn

Funny how the same patterns of behaviour repeat themselves.

Care to bet they are occurring today?  Care to bet that the people who are doing it are well, off, intelligent, and in power?

cordially,

 

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:59 | #

@97

Absolutely right, Tim.

We both could cite countless examples of how our corrupt morally-bankrupt ruling-class has - especially during the past 6 decades - flushed Western Culture down the toilet.  Pro abortion-on-demand is but one example.

 

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 13:09 | #

I heard a good analogy comparing the various groups of people involved in the “anti-racist” (read: anti-white) movement to a list of ingredients in a loaf of bread recipe; whereas jewish money and power represent the yeast which causes the bread to rise.

Not a perfect analogy but it makes a valid point.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Mon, 14 Aug 2023 11:47 | #

Tim, I am already letting you off the hook with your remarks about logic and reason because I have no use for conquest over you.

Before you go writing an unrelated rebuttal.

Definition,

By Logic, I mean formal, symbolic logic.  That form of reasoning that is concerned with reasoning about arguments qua arguments, not the argument content itself.

 

 

 

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Mon, 14 Aug 2023 12:28 | #

Regarding evidence you refuse to consider because it is beneath you, here are three exorcists…

Father Gary Banks, the Mr. Rogers of Exorcists

Fr. Chad Ripperger, exorcist  speaking about the intricacies of his mission and the levels of spiritual warfare (it is a war).

Here is Fr. Chad Ripperger with his spiritual warfare and communism

Medieval depictions of the devil in art are part of https://www.catholicexorcism.org/blogMsgr. Stpehen Rosseti’s blog

None of these men are stupid.
None of them engage in histrionics
None of them lie to us.
None of them run from reason.
People trust and love them and run to them for help. Business is booming at Msgr Rossetti’s online deliverance sessions, the latest blog post on the woman and the tantric is typical oppression.

Fr. Ripperger’s lectures on Reason and Faith are very good, the premise is that our Reason is designed for “Logos”, Now before you recoil at the cross of “designed” , I refer you again to the video with Behe, Meyer and Lennox I posted earlier.  He is a very good example of one reason why I left Protestantism and their #Lutherian rejection of reason for Catholicism.

Fr. Ripperger is also a very good lecturer on St. Thomas Aquinas model of the human soul.  He has written a book titled Introduction to the Science of Mental Health that undoes the Freaudian inversion of the same .

All of this is to say that if you have any reasonable attempt of convincing me with Reason and Logic alone, then you are going to have to up your game.
Given the available evidence, Grassland myths are not a better explanation for our world, they are your wish for our world .

Your “run to materialism” tactic reminds me of something stupid The Z-Man posted: “We know we evolved because we are here”; it is a variant of “The Sun rises because the Rooster Crows” .

Cordially,

t

 

Posted by timothy murray on Tue, 15 Aug 2023 00:57 | #

@thorn Cool C,S Lewis quote that you will find topical

  “Good philosophy must exist, if for no other reason, because bad philosophy needs to be answered. The cool intellect must work not only against cool intellect on the other side, but against the muddy heathen mysticisms which deny intellect altogether”

Threadreaderapp link below

 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1689293759689662464.html

cordially

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 15 Aug 2023 14:11 | #

“...but against the muddy heathen mysticisms which deny intellect altogether”

Good quote,Tim.

To diverge a bit, what we have here in the USA is the vast majority of whites’ viewing the world through a philosophical muddied lens. They’ve willfully submitted to being brainwashed with Leftist ideologies and are too cowardly to admit it - but more importantly, they won’t even admit to themselves. Most (not all) White Americanos are soooo conditioned by the PC Thought Police that they’ve come to the point where they police their own freakin’ thoughts!! I.e., their thought patterns have become so ingrained with “woke” ideologies that they automatically jettison/repel any objective truth which they sense might go against the ruling-class’s approved orthodoxy. To put it another way, the white masses in Western countries are being ruled by fear and intimidation and most whites are capitulating to what the “anti-racists” demand and behaving accordingly. In the meantime the White race is running headlong towards its extinction and whites - as it stands now - are not putting up any meaningful resistance. Twenty years ago I thought the internet was going to be a boon for the pro white, pro-white preservationist movement, but it’s turning out to be a flop. Too many weirdos and unattractive personalities polluted both the leadership and the rank and file.

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:57 | #

@101

Tim, you may be interested in Laura Wood’s website. I’ve been visiting it on a regular basis for many years.

https://www.thinkinghousewife.com/2023/08/the-assumption-of-mary/

Posted by timothy murray on Tue, 15 Aug 2023 18:03 | #

Hi Thorn.

I see her work on gab quite a bit.

cordially

Posted by timothy murray on Tue, 15 Aug 2023 22:29 | #

Hi Thorn

I am on gab as gettimothy.

cordially

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 16 Aug 2023 12:35 | #

@105

I haven’t set up a GAB account yet but it’s on my to-do list. I made a note of your handle. Thanks.

Posted by Al Ross on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:10 | #

GW , thank you for taking the intellectual trouble and time to vanquish the moronic believers in a Jewish chimera . Nobody nowadays can be bothered with these supernatural - believing nitwits.

  I was “woke” by your good self years ago , and have never lost my belief in your intellectual honesty and rigour .

A word about Ukraine, though , may divide us .

  https://www.cspicenter.com/p/the-original-sin-of-post-cold-war

Posted by Al Ross on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:23 | #

Hi Thorn .

Oh Hi Timmy , let’s talk about God.

  Thorn : Why did he give me these homo urges and then forbid me to bugger you ?

Timmy :  It’s one of the old Jew God’s many mysteries and, er , that’s it , Thorn . Still luv ya though and in eternity we shall be together but no sex, OK?

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:26 | #

@108

HAH!

C’mon Al, admit it. You’re hostile towards Christianity bc Christianity’s divine laws prohibit your pursued proclivity to practice your pedophile perversions. Right? Why else have you chosen Thailand (the world’s haven for pedophiles) as your long-time residence? Or maybe it’s just the case where your Thai husband demands you live there? Which of the two is it?!?

Posted by Timothy Murray on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:49 | #

Al’s goto methods are pathetic.

His pattern is to denigrate , dismiss, redirect , insult.
That is all that he has.

He offers no intellectual rebuttal, he never engages on the merits, because he cannot.
He is what Ayn Rand called a ‘second hander’ the sub-human who does not take responsibility for his own psyche.

I am still waiting on the “kock down punch” from GW on the matter of Logic and Reason.

I am waiting for @GW to respond to the links I posted that he redirected to the spam filter.

The obvious conclusion that this behaviour forces me to conclude is that GW and his minion Al, are demagogues, just like the neocon jews or the sola-scriptura protestants.
For the demagogue, facts are only useful if and only if the support the desired end-result.  If the facts do not support it, then the facts must never be allowed into conversation.

 

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:50 | #

here is the comment that was spam-blocked.

Regarding evidence you refuse to consider because it is beneath you, here are three exorcists…

Father Gary Banks, the Mr. Rogers of Exorcists

Fr. Chad Ripperger, exorcist  speaking about the intricacies of his mission and the levels of spiritual warfare (it is a war).

Here is Fr. Chad Ripperger with his spiritual warfare and communism

Medieval depictions of the devil in art are part of https://www.catholicexorcism.org/blogMsgr. Stpehen Rosseti’s blog

None of these men are stupid.
None of them engage in histrionics
None of them lie to us.
None of them run from reason.
People trust and love them and run to them for help. Business is booming at Msgr Rossetti’s online deliverance sessions, the latest blog post on the woman and the tantric is typical oppression.

Fr. Ripperger’s lectures on Reason and Faith are very good, the premise is that our Reason is designed for “Logos”, Now before you recoil at the cross of “designed” , I refer you again to the video with Behe, Meyer and Lennox I posted earlier.  He is a very good example of one reason why I left Protestantism and their #Lutherian rejection of reason for Catholicism.

Fr. Ripperger is also a very good lecturer on St. Thomas Aquinas model of the human soul.  He has written a book titled Introduction to the Science of Mental Health that undoes the Freaudian inversion of the same .

All of this is to say that if you have any reasonable attempt of convincing me with Reason and Logic alone, then you are going to have to up your game.
Given the available evidence, Grassland myths are not a better explanation for our world, they are your wish for our world .

Your “run to materialism” tactic reminds me of something stupid The Z-Man posted: “We know we evolved because we are here”; it is a variant of “The Sun rises because the Rooster Crows” .

Cordially,

t

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:51 | #

Just after my prior comment, and just before this one, I reposted my comment on the exorcists.

It too was spammed.

Let’s see if the materialists will allow their worldview to be challenged by reality.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:00 | #

@Thorn

The use of the third person in addressing the Al is a formal debate technique I learned from a friend online.

The purpose is to remove personalities from the discussion and focus on the elements at hand.

When a sub-wit attempts to become “the element at hand” then it is best to respect his wishes and treat him as such.

“The Element at Hand” is typically incapable of dispassionate self-observation and lashes out according to its nature.

I bring this up so that you are aware that the tool is available to you to use should you ever choose to do so.
I have found that it clarifies the mind and discussion

cordially

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:32 | #

@112

Thank’s for the very good advise, Tim.

Normally I don’t respond to trolls directly but here at Majority Rights the “disscussion” has been limited to only four of us.

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:34 | #

The obvious conclusion that this behaviour forces me to conclude is that GW and his minion Al, are demagogues, just like the neocon jews or the sola-scriptura protestants.

Tim,

GW is one of the good guys. His main concern is saving the White race from going extinct; or, IOWs, trying his best to prevent having its gene-pool subsumed by alien gene-pools. That is where our interests overlap. My disagreement with GW is he places the lion’s share of the blame for the White race being on the course towards extinction on Christianity. I, OTOH, blame the other forces such as, but not limited to, loathsome feel-good virtue-signaling white liberals, power hungry globalists/international corporate executives, and vindictive jews seeking revenge…. They have differing interests but their actions/behaviors are resulting in the same end: the genocide of the White race.

Here’s an excellent article (I can’t believe I read this 17 years ago. My how time flies!!!). It highlights how Richard C. Lewontin spread the lie (Known by race-realists as the Lewontin fallacy) which nearly all the white ruling-class swallowed hook, line and sinker. “Anti-racism/race-denialism” is a core belief system of the white ruling-class. “Anti-racism/race-denialism” as its practiced today is both anti-white and anti-Scriptural. But I digress.

Here is the article:

 

The Genetics of Race
Harold Stowe, American Renaissance, July 2006

Everyone has heard the fashionable view that race is not a valid biological concept but is, instead, a suspect sociological category. The implication is that racial distinctions are a form of superstition, that there is no justification for wanting to preserve races, and that replacement of one group by another represents no genetic loss. More specifically, it implies there is no reason for whites in Europe or America to resist displacement because we are, in effect, being replaced by ourselves.

This view is wrong on its face. Races breed true, generation after generation — Danes cannot produce a Bantu, and Bantus cannot produce a Dane — and racial differences are so substantial and consistent that two-year-old children notice them. Scientists recognize the biological differences between animal subspecies — eastern lowland and mountain gorillas, for examples — that are far more physically similar to each other than are members of different human races.

Clearly, the main motive for promoting a view so contrary to common sense is “anti-racism,” but there is one biological fact on which the race-deniers build their argument: This is the oft-cited observation by Richard C. Lewontin of Harvard that there is far more genetic variation within human racial groups (about 85 percent of the total) than between them (about 15 percent). This is true, and scientists were surprised when this fact first came to light. There have since been many outrageous misinterpretations of Prof. Lewontin’s findings, with some people even claiming that because there is more genetic variation within than between human groups, whites are genetically more similar to blacks than to other whites.

I will try to explain what the Lewontin findings mean, and how they should be understood. To do so, I will simplify some of the basic concepts of population genetics and use analogies to illustrate certain key points. Readers interested in the more technical aspects of the subject can consult the papers mentioned in this article, and an Internet search will uncover a vast and challenging literature. What follows, however, should be enough to clear the cobwebs.

Read more>> https://www.amren.com/news/2017/08/the-genetics-of-race/

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:57 | #

Correction:

Here’s an excellent article (I can’t believe I read this 17 years ago. My how time flies!!!). It highlights how Richard C. Lewontin spread the lie (Known by race-realists as the Lewontin fallacy) which nearly all the white ruling-class swallowed hook, line and sinker. Thus, “Anti-racism/race-denialism” is a core belief system of the white ruling-class. “Anti-racism/race-denialism” as it is practiced today is both anti-white and anti-Scriptural. But I digress.

Posted by timothy murray on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 21:18 | #

Thorn

Thank you.

That article is wonderful.

I love the stastical explanation .

Any ideas on how to duplicate this in R?

cordially

t

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 17 Aug 2023 22:52 | #

Tim,

Glad you found the article useful. I wish I could get all whites to read, understand and accept the factual information contained therein. Unfortunately, practically all the whites I know bought into the infantile notion that racial differences are only skin deep ... especially those whites who’ve been college indoctrinated. They are mind-numbed delusional little wokebots. 

Any ideas on how to duplicate this in R?

Sorry, I can’t help you there. I’m totally unfamiliar with R. In fact, this is the first time I’ve ever heard of it. lol

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 18 Aug 2023 11:57 | #

Hi Thorn,

R is an open source, free statistical program.
What is wonderful is it is THE statistical tool.*
In that article, I loved how they talked so fluently in statistical terms. I don’t have that, yet.

Jones’ thinking on “White” is understandable, but unfortunate.

I agree with you, on getting people to understand.

One vector is the Natural Law. (I doubt this will work with #Protestants as their culture blinds them to thinking correctly…heck, you read Jones, Luther rejected reason as necessary for faith)_

Start “birds of a feather flock together”
Do you notice that people do too?
God created, Eagles, God created Doves….is it wise to put the two together?
Disney world used to release doves at the end of a show, they stopped it because the eagles would swoop in and kill the doves….(happiest place on earth and all that)
Or use Dogs
Or Cats and Dogs..

Then move the conversation to peoples.

Or, you can suggest the Tower of Babel and the mercy God gave mankind in separating them into different Nations (root word of Nation comes in handy here)

In summary, it is pro-Christian to support all the peoples of the Earth in their own habitats as both the Natural Law and Scripture demonstrate.
Part of that Natural Law are the genetic differences described in that article (this brings them into the Scientific realm)

Then, as part of it, show how peoples, who obey the Natural Law (God’s law) are thriving while those who disobey it are suffering.
Russians vs. Americans, for example.

The goal is to make it moral for Whites to take their own God-given gifts seriously as God intended; for it is a sin to think and act against the Natural Law.

(It needs development, but the rudiments are there)

Thank you for your work. It is good to be able to think about these things.

cordially,

* MIT offers their a free course on statistics with R. (or did).
(If you have a Garmin GPS take a look at the software licensing, it is overwhelmingly GNU libraries.
The jews are freaking out about AI, I am not. We develop our own libraries and give them away for others to use.
Our AI will be better than theirs.)

 

 

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 18 Aug 2023 16:06 | #

That was an excellent post,Tim.

Re:

Jones’ thinking on “White” is understandable, but unfortunate.

Yeah, I think (but I’m not certain) Jones is rejecting “white nationalism” as it’s presented by Jared Taylor; Jones even said as much.

In any event, my Catholic instruction taught it’s a sin to worship your own race. However it is not a sin to have great respect for the racial group you belong to; moreover, it is a virtue to defend your race when it is being attacked, and being attacked it is!  - both physically and psychologically ... but especially psychologically!

That brings me back to defense of our race. It is clearly spelled out in the official Catechism of the Catholic Church that it’s not only morally right to defend ourselves, but a grave duty to do so. IOWs God commands us to do so! It falls under Part Three, Section Two, Chapter, Two Article 5 The Fifth Commandment, Subsection one:

Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. “The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor…. the one is intended, the other is not.“65

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful…. Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another’s life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.66

(emphasis mine)

https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7Z.HTM

 

Posted by timothy murray on Sat, 19 Aug 2023 01:51 | #

Thorn

You are awesome!

I have been offered the sacrament of Confirmation by my beloved priest, but   politely stated that I felt it best to study the Chatecism to the level of being able to teach it.

I am working my way through Spirago’s version as recomended by Fr. Ripperger.

The thought of lethal violence, which I strongly suspect is coming, is troubling me. I like peace and quiet.  However, the evil we see is murderous.

Our Catholic forbears killed the Aztecs…which is an oblique way of saying that their just resort to lethal violence was nearer to them that it is to me.

Perhaps by God’s grace I will become as they are.

I am a bit troubled by 2265 “Those holding legitimate authority”

Fr. Ripperger states that, “Authority is a real thing”

which makes sense to the man who has loved and been loved by a woman….the couple is precious and bigger than the sum of its parts…i.e, Marriage is a real thing. there are probably other things like marriage and Authority that are Real Things (sorry for the murkyness in my language)

He also states that legitimate Authority has its own sphere…
A person over themselves
Parent over a child
Husband over a wife
Priests, granted authority by the Bishop, over demons
(a side “business” in the priestly exorcist ministry is bailing out protestant deliverance ministry types who lack the real thing that is Authority)

etc.

This is an overly long way of asking when does “legitimate” leave those claiming authority?

At the National level I think it leaves on racial ground with some exceptions for men and women of exceptional virtue (or common Catholic virtue).
Clarence Thomas and Tony Dungy come to mind.

Yeah, I think (but I’m not certain) Jones is rejecting “white nationalism” as it’s presented by Jared Taylor; Jones even said as much.

I do not think so.

Jay Dee , gentleman,  over at Tanstaafl’s latest thread posted a video where , basically, a Mongol could become authentically French.

Genetically impossible in my view.

Also a waste of time; why can’t the French live in peace as Frenchmen withought the bother of dealing with Mongols?  It is very impolite at the least and this pernicious idea that we must extend ourselves to accomadate the other absent extreme circumstances is just rude (a better phrasing/framing of this by a woman fluent in that Pride and Prejudice author would be easy for them)

That part in Holy Mass where the priest, quoting Jesus says, “My peace I give to you…” and then everybody , with big beautiful smiles looks around and says, “Peace be with you”
This IS the duty of legitimate government.

The enormity of it all is humbling

Throw in the majority of people, including beloved friends and neighbors who cannot think beyond anything and it is a mess.

Grace and Peace to you.

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 19 Aug 2023 20:29 | #

I am a bit troubled by 2265 “Those holding legitimate authority”

Tim’

I believe legitimate authority in that context is referring to mayors, governors, presidents, prime ministers, etc.

In cases such as attacks by hostile enemies both foreign or domestic, those in official positions are granted the right to apply the necessary force to repel or neutralize, BAMN, the threat posed to the law-abiding citizens.

My understanding is the official stance of the Church is to make it clear they do not endorse vigilantism. But that by no means takes away or negates your individual right to defend yourself or to defend those in your charge. When deciding to defend yourself - and or those in your charge - it is left up to your own discretion as to how much legitimate force you think is required.

As an example, and speaking for myself, if anyone enters my home uninvited, I will, without hesitation, ventilated the intruder with one of my many handy “cordless hole punchers.” Any questions for the intruder will come after the smoke clears.  I believe that complies with the Church’s legitimate use of force doctrine. It also complies with the Castle Doctrine.

Posted by timothy murray on Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:18 | #

Hi Thorn

  I believe legitimate authority in that context is referring to mayors, governors, presidents, prime ministers, etc.

That is the troubling part.

The titles, “mayors, governors, presidents, prime ministers” , do not make legitimate authority.

The office itself is distinct from the scumbag with the title. I use the term of contempt with intent.

The king of this world, should we genuflect to him?
its minions, who bear the titles of high secular office, must we genuflect to them?

I say no, on Catholic grounds, although the CCC points you present suggest we should.

A related segue is Mitch? somebody (a priest at ewtn) who, I have read, states that “Jesus turning the other cheek” was an act of rebellion, not submission.

tl;dr

I am already at war with those who have waged war on me.
I intend to win it.
I fear, rightly, mortal sin as I have committed multitudes of them and know, first hand, the temporal consequences ( a mercy, btw) of them.

There is a lot going on here…

leaders are far and few between, none hold positions of legitimate authority…ok, overstated..but the list of ‘legitimate’ leaders is thin.
Vigano is one, Putin another, Dugin another.

None American (or English, with a nod to our host)

Perhaps another way to look at is that Authority is a real thing and when evil appropriates the titles and offices, a vacuum is created and they will be set right since the ‘king of this world’ has a foot on its head.

cordially

 

 

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 20 Aug 2023 12:57 | #

I believe legitimate authority in that context is referring to mayors, governors, presidents, prime ministers, etc.

That is the troubling part.

The titles, “mayors, governors, presidents, prime ministers” , do not make legitimate authority.

The office itself is distinct from the scumbag with the title. I use the term of contempt with intent.

Well, unfortunately we have to make do with the situation we are confronted with. Reality is a bitch!

Those elected leaders are a reflection of the sorry state of the morality of the majority of the electorate. With each election cycle we see the quality of our “leaders” decline. Why is that? I posit that there is an inverse relationship between the decline of traditional Christianity and the rise of evil and corruption. The evidence of that is stark. Why people can’t see it is a question worth exploring in great detail.  Rousseau believed people are inherently good but the evidence clearly indicates otherwise (and I’m being objective, not projecting). In today’s post-Christian West, evil is crawling out from under every rock. E.g., the anti-white weaponization of most government agencies, ESG, DEI, “anti-racism/social justice” (read: anti white), Queer theory/transgenderism being taught to grade school students, radical feminism, climate change hoax, kids having easy access to porn on the web, CRT and-on-and-on it goes ...... All of those aforementioned ideologies/psychological pathogens are antithetical to traditional Christian teachings.

I am flabbergasted that so many so-called White Nationalists are so pig-headed they can’t recognize the relationship between the decline of Christianity (one of the three pillars of which Western Civilization was built on) and its precipitous moral/ethical, and most important of all: its population decline of whites. Putin and Orban see it! Even the kneegrow African leaders wise to it they clearly see it! Thus, they too are pushing back against the anti-Christian “woke” globalist agenda; as we speak they’re forging alliances with Russia. Ironically, if the demographic trends continue as is, the low IQ kneegrows of Africa will wind up dominating the planet. Not kidding.

John Adams was spot on when he said: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

BTW, Tim, what do you think about how the upcoming presidential race is shaping up?

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 20 Aug 2023 13:05 | #

Correction:
I am flabbergasted that so many so-called White Nationalists are so pig-headed they can’t recognize the relationship between the decline of Christianity (one of the three pillars of which Western Civilization was built on) and the precipitous decline of moral/ethical, and most important of all: the population decline of whites in Western countries.

Posted by timothy murray on Mon, 21 Aug 2023 01:49 | #

Hi Thorn

The Will To Power folks, those who put will over being as Jones describes happening in late middle ages(?) do not reason about these things the way we do.  We appear odd to them.

Regarding the rise of evil, I am hoping that convincing the athiests/agnostics that a return to pre Christian virtues are in order…Fortitude , Justice , Prudence and Temperance with their subvirtues (typically seven ) would be an area of agreement and cooperation.

Continuing on the rise of evil, it is astonishing how predictable it all is. People cannot see it, because they are it; it is their culture.  Prediction…public dispays of bestiality will be celebrated within the decade, absent our victory .

  BTW, Tim, what do you think about how the upcoming presidential race is shaping up?

They stole the last election, they will steal this one, assumong we get to it. The jews captured Protestant America within 3 generations. pathetic.

I think Whites are past Trump, that Oliver Anthony
anthem is a good example of it. Trump is a means, not an end.

Trump destroying the Republicans is good fun, but they do not care as we the people are not their constituency.

Our people know. We are beyond America.

Which is quite astonishing . 

 

What are your thoughts on it?

cordially

 

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 21 Aug 2023 14:16 | #

I too think the 2020 election was stolen - no doubt about it. The vote fraud was targeted and occurred in key swing states within racially shielded (managed by blacks) vote counting centers.

This time around TPTB are using these bogus indictments of Trump as a means to interfere with the election ... to predetermine the outcome. Of course the outcome they’re seeking is to knock out Trump before or during the primary voting; or if Trump somehow survives the legal onslaught and wins the primary then the Deep State’s “Plans B,C, or D” will go into effect.

But let’s say Trump somehow loses the primary; in that case I believe NikKi Haley will win the GOP nomination then go on the win in the general. DeSantis, IMHO, committed political suicide by going up against Trump. He should have waited till 2028. I surmise the big donors (those who by and sell elected pols and candidates like commodities) called DeSantis aside and convinced him Trump will be knocked out of the running and he, DeSantis, is being tapped to be the chosen one. Robot Ron foolishly fell for their sales pitch. Well now it looks like the DeSantis campaign is failing. He is steadily dropping in the polls. So in a scenario where both Trump and DeSantis are knocked out of the running, I think the power brokers, the big money donors, will line up behind neocon Nikki Haley. I’m noticing the MSM is building up Tim Scott; but I think when push comes to shove, neocon Nikki will be the GOP establishment’s number 1 choice.

We’ll have a better feel for the situation after the debate tomorrow night.

BTW, indications are Trump will face another set of indictments in Arizona. We are living in the midst of a repressive quasi-communist revolution - a politically correct police state.

In the mean time I’m all in for Trump.

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 21 Aug 2023 15:59 | #

Here’s another good piece written about Oliver Anthony’s song.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what-people-are-getting-wrong-about-rich-men-north-of-richmond/ar-AA1fx93P?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8049baae22ac46a4ac62e421e6a9c3df&ei=11

Obviously, Trump won over the white working class. The GOPe - being the out-of-touch uppity snobs they are - hold contempt for and look down their noses at the white working class. The thing is, without the support of the white working-class, the GOP wouldn’t stand a chance of winning a state-wide election let alone a national election. F’ing “Stupid Party” indeed!

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 21 Aug 2023 16:06 | #

Victor Davis Hanson: We will Lose our rights under the Constitution if this happens.

msn

Posted by Timothy Murray on Mon, 21 Aug 2023 21:28 | #

Hi Thorn

That first link jibes well with the Kissinger quote on control. From brave search..

Henry Kissinger once said,
“Who controls the food supply controls the people;
who controls the energy can control whole continents;
who controls money can control the world.”

This quote emphasizes the power of money to influence people’s lives and decisions.0 It is important to manage money to control it. The task of a leader is to move people from where they are to where they have not been.

it is distilled tokun olem or whatever their phrase is.

I love the picture of the golf-club scene. These are my neighbors and friends.

Cordially,

 

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Mon, 21 Aug 2023 21:38 | #

Regarding Hanson

CTL-f Jew always returns zero results.

The focus on “muh constitution” is a chimera.
The materialist perspective that these people are an alien species best describes this phenomena.
Tan rages against the “we are commiting suicide” cult, and he is absolutely correct.
America is being murdered by the jews.
The Protestants “clergy” are useless in the fight, rather they are an impediment to it.

Which segues into a related facet of Anthony Oliver.
Otto the great (?) deposed an evil, satan worshiping Catholic pope at the behest of the faithful.
This is is related to our “legitimate authority” discussion.
When “our” institutions become our enemy, then Religious mal-institutions must fall as well.

The entire dynamic is not about ease and well-being, but about virtue;  dis-ease is a consequence of the opposition to virtue and the people (Logos Rising) rebel in accordance with Logos.

This war is going to heat up, and we will, God willing have much more to discuss. Toby Keith was the first, that “Try that in a smalltown” singer another, and Anthony Oliver is present.

Love our own, bro.

In Christ.

t

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Mon, 21 Aug 2023 22:15 | #

I am going to cross post this topic at Tan’s place.

On this topic, we see the essential nature of Jones’ book Logos Rising

David Hume is one of the American conservative touchstones…

In the below video, Lennox , by merely stating Hume’s thoughts, destroys America.

https://youtu.be/F9ZKWewOzks?t=178

cordially.

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 21 Aug 2023 22:52 | #

it is distilled tokun olem or whatever their phrase is.

Tim,

During my life I’ve worked with and became acquaintances, even friends, with scores of Jews and believe me, none of them could care less about tokem olem.  And you mentioned the golf-club scene. This is just anecdotal evidence but in one of the golf leagues I belonged to my golf partner was, unbeknownst to me, a Jew. I had no clue. I golfed with the man for years. Then one day he mentioned to me he was going to attend his nieces bat mitzvah in the upcoming week. I responded, HUH? And asked, do you have Jews in your family? He laughed and said: I’m a Jew, I thought you knew that. I laughed and said to him, I always thought it weird that you’re a blue-collar schlub like me and married to a Board-Certified Clinical Psychologist, it makes sense now. We both laughed.

The only Jew I know that pisses-and-moans about the Holocaust is a retired Detroit Fireman. Other than his annoying paranoia, (which his jewy jew wife disapproves of) he is a pretty fun guy to be around.

My point is there are some pretty nasty Jews doing great damage to America (Soros, Paul Singer, the New York radical feminists, and so on and so forth) but your average Jew is not a threat.

I think Michael Savage said it best: “When Jews want to to do good, they can be great. But when they want to do bad, they can be outright dangerous.” 

Dangerous indeed. But white liberals and negroes are just as capable at destroying America - in their own particular methods - as the malicious evil leftwing Jews.

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 21 Aug 2023 23:14 | #

More specifically, militant angry negroes. There are lots of them. Probably they comprise a majority of them.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Tue, 22 Aug 2023 13:24 | #

Hi Thorn,

I share Tans take on the NAJALT line of thought.

There are several black people I know and admire and genuinelly love.
However, it is still foolish to be a white man in a black neighborhood.

The same with the jews.

cordially,

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 22 Aug 2023 16:33 | #

There are several black people I know and admire and genuinelly love.
However, it is still foolish to be a white man in a black neighborhood.

Detroit prior to its negro population reaching critical mass was known as “The Paris of the Midwest” and deservedly so. It was a beautiful well managed city with the nation’s highest per capita income.  I grew up in the NE section of Detroit. It wasn’t predominately white; it was 100% white!! Very low crime rate, clean well-maintained homes, with manicured lawns, excellent public schools, and excellent city services. Then blacks started moving into that two square mile section around 1993 which, of course, triggered white flight. Property values plummeted. By the time 2003 rolled around, the racial demographics of that neighborhood changed from 100% white to around 75 black (we’re talking about several thousand houses changing hands). Within that short ten-year period, that particular zip code earned the dubious distinction of becoming not the city’s most dangerous zip code, not the county or state’s most dangerous zip code, but the USA’s most dangerous zip code. The wanton destruction those negroes caused in that neighborhood is nothing less than astounding. The arson alone claimed at least (depending on which block you pick) 25% to 80% of the houses. It’s a hellscape and the destruction continues as we speak. Now as the housing stock diminishes, the groids of moving out into the suburbs. Wash, rinse, repeat. No other racial group is as destructive as the Negroids are. Since the 1960s trillions of dollars have been on social programs meant to uplift blacks. The result is an exponential expansion of the black under-class population.

Lawrence Auster (a Jew who converted to Catholicism shortly before his passing) back in 2011 wrote a very spot-on short piece hitting on blacks’ dysfunction/intellectual inferiority and whites’ delusional reaction to it.

WHY THE TRUTH ABOUT BLACK DYSFUNCTION IS SO IMPORTANT

Why do I focus so relentlessly on these endlessly repeated stories of the massive cover-up, followed by the massive exposure, of black criminality and black failure—which is, we should point out, failure by white standards? Beyond its immediate interest and obvious importance, the truthful communication about black dysfunction and violence also serves the larger purpose of this website, which is nothing less than to save the American nation.

In my view, the greatest single factor driving whites to national suicide is their false guilt over black inferiority. Because whites believe—as modern liberalism has taught them to believe—that all groups have equal inherent abilities, they also believe that the actual inferiority of blacks in almost every area of accomplishment and behavior must be caused by something bad that the whites are invidiously doing to blacks, or by something good that whites are selfishly refusing to do for blacks. However expressed, it all comes down to the idea that black failure is caused by white racism—the transcendent sin of the modern world. And because black inferiority continues, and is even getting worse, the conclusion is that white racism is continuing, and is even getting worse.

The final result of this woefully mistaken thought process is the paralyzing racial guilt which makes whites feel that they have no right to defend and preserve their civilization, no right to defend and preserve themselves, but that they must instead self-sacrificially open themselves to and empower, not only blacks, but all nonwhites. This self-sacrifice takes numerous forms, including denial of the truth of black anti-white violence, denial of the tyrannical and murderous reality of Islam, and unquestioning acceptance of the mass Third-World immigration that is steadily turning America into a non-European country in which whites and their civilization will be steadily weakened, dispossessed, and destroyed. Therefore, as I began saying in the mid 1990s, if whites could see the truth that blacks’ lesser intelligence and other lesser civilizational abilities are not whites’ fault but are inherent in blacks themselves, it could literally save the country, by freeing whites from their suicidal guilt.

- end of initial entry -

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/019843.html

Posted by Timothy Murray on Wed, 23 Aug 2023 12:01 | #

I haven’t read the book, but Jones wrote “The Slaughter of the Cities” wherein what you describe was a jewish op.

If you look anywhere the jews go to conquer, they divide and conquer and use “let’s you and him fight” cloaked in a moral story.

In South Africa, “I am not gonna play Sun City” was just such an op.
Same thing here.

This was done to us; it never just happens.

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 23 Aug 2023 17:13 | #

I haven’t read the book, but Jones wrote “The Slaughter of the Cities” wherein what you describe was a jewish op.

LOL, if it was a Jewish op it backfired on them. Here in the Metro Detroit area the substantial Jewish population mainly resides in Oakland County. Back decades ago, the Detroit suburban cities of Oak Park and Southfield were predominately Jewish; that was until the blacks started moving in there. The Jews didn’t want to live amongst negroes thus the Jewish exodus commenced. Oy Vey!!  Now those two Detroit suburbs are predominately black. Mostly middle-class blacks but predominately black never-the less.

 

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 24 Aug 2023 12:02 | #

File this under Jewish maliciousness, mendaciousness, vindictive machinations and the traitorous enemy within who are ready, willing, and able to enact, to write into law, Soros’ devious schemes. Bravo to guys like Elon Musk. We need at least a million more like him.

Elon Musk Vows to Sue George Soros-Funded NGOs Over Free Speech

Elon Musk said that X, the platform formerly known as Twitter, would sue organizations funded by financier George Soros that allegedly pushed for a crackdown on free speech.

Mr. Musk, who bought Twitter last year in a pledge to make the platform a bastion of free speech, said in a post on X on Aug. 23 that he agrees with the view expressed by investigative journalist Michael Shellenberger that George Soros-funded NGOs have been falsely claiming that “hate incidents” are on the rise in order to push restrictions of free expression.

“Politicians & George Soros-funded NGOs say ‘hate incidents’ are rising, but they’re not,” Mr. Shellenberger wrote in his post. “The data show the opposite: higher-than-ever and rising levels of tolerance of minorities. The reason they’re spreading hate misinformation is to justify a draconian crackdown on free speech.”
{snip}
Mr. Scallan’s article says that Irish leaders, including Justice Minister Helen McEntee, have asserted that hate-based offenses are on the rise in Ireland. They point to a reported 29 percent increase in hate crimes in 2022 compared to the previous year.

However, Mr. Scallan argues that an increase in reporting of hate offenses doesn’t necessarily mean an actual increase in hate crimes, in part because the threshold for classifying something as a hate offense is low, requiring little evidence beyond someone’s claim.

RTWT

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 25 Aug 2023 01:36 | #

re:

Elon Musk Vows to Sue George Soros-Funded NGOs Over Free Speech

Putin would just nuke them from orbit.

Why grant legitimacy to the International Jews to meddle within our affairs?

I was thinking of that picture of a jew jabbing his finger into Prince Charle’s chest and cursing; a real Prince would have broken the fucker’s finger and shoved it down his throat before having the son-of-a-bitch flayed alive and rendered into fat .

This. Is. War.

Relying on dead institutions has proven to be a losing strategy for decades now.

cordially,

 

 

Posted by Al Ross on Fri, 25 Aug 2023 04:00 | #

“Relying on dead institutions .... ”  Christian belief and its attendant social obligation , Church - going , fit that description perfectly.

Doubtless, you , Timothy, have superior data , gleaned from the Third World whose dusky denizens will be your boon companions in Jewish Eternity.  A bit like Biden’s forced Section 8 housing infesting White suburbs.

Posted by Al Ross on Fri, 25 Aug 2023 04:23 | #

You , Timothy and minion Thorn , need not care about your terrestrial genetic future because you will be going to (((Heaven))) . The Old Jew God will provide you with eternal accommodation , so where, exactly does your numbskull, Semitic ,supernatural - based interest lie vis - a - vis current White racial difficulty?

Answer : Nowhere . So Good Fucking Bye to all your stratospheric Ghost nonsense.

Warmest regards.

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 25 Aug 2023 11:21 | #

Putin would just nuke them from orbit.

Pooty Poot Putin booted their subversive asses out of Russia and the woke western weasel ruling-class of the West freaked out. The main reason they hate Putin so much is he will not bend to the sick twisted “woke” agenda.

 

Russian undesirable organizations law

Why grant legitimacy to the International Jews to meddle within our affairs?

wikipedia

The Jews indeed are a meddlesome lot but they are just one of many forces who’re working to reduce the White race to an oppressed minority in their own homelands, then ultimately drive us into extinction. Currently one of the most potent weapons the anti-whites are using is CRT. Look into who the founders/architects of CRT are. Hint: they ain’t Jews.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 25 Aug 2023 12:00 | #

Al continues his pattern of insult and redirect, engaging on the merits is not in his limited toolkit.

 

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 25 Aug 2023 22:52 | #

@143

Tim, Al displays all the traits of an irksome obnoxious zipperhead. Why else would he praise China and dis the USA? He admittedly lives in Thailand (that’s where he belongs).

If he’s not a zipperhead, then he’s a prime example of a miseducated demented white dude. The type that’s causing the WN movement to fail.

Good article on CRT:
https://www.heritage.org/civil-rights/report/critical-race-theory-the-new-intolerance-and-its-grip-america

Posted by Timothy Murray on Sat, 26 Aug 2023 00:56 | #

CRT underpins identity politics, which reimagines the U.S. as a nation riven by groups, each with specific claims on victimization.

The USA is a failing empire; its dominate Nations are under attack within its own borders.  Identity politics is the norm in any healthy government, for the government exists for the Nation.

Nation means race; in 1913 Websters it was common to refer to The Japanese Race, The German Race…etc.

The Heritage foundation is not our friend; civic-nationalism is a contradiction in terms and it has utterly failed us.

Regarding the specifics of CRT, I do not care. It is another intellectual movement designed to destroy whites. Full stop.

Cordially

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:37 | #

Regarding the specifics of CRT, I do not care. It is another intellectual movement designed to destroy whites. Full stop.

Tim, it’s important to care bc we are trying to get whites to embrace white identity; CRT is designed to get whites to resent their white identity. There is a war on whites and the anti-whites are winning big time. It’s come to the point where there are more anti-white whites than pro-white whites (It seems like we are outnumbered by a ratio of 100:1.). The situation is bad and getting worse. Most white people avoid topics which specifically celebrate the great accomplishments of native Europeans. And don’t mention IQ differences between the races. Whites invariably avoid that discussion like the plague. They’ve been conditioned - mostly via coercive intimidation tactics - to present themselves as “color-blind” race-deniers. They’ve been trained to think like good little “anti-racists”.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Sat, 26 Aug 2023 12:33 | #

Hi Thorn,
By “i do not care” I mean in the sense that I do not let my enemies define the battlefield. Yes, understanding the dialectic has an important place; it is vital work, but I am not there.

On a different tangent, I found this on Gab.

https://gab.com/White__Rabbit/posts/110953859211930439/media/1?timeline=video

It is an important clue into several things which interest me:

1. What was influencing Revilo P. Oliver
2. How did the zionists own the protestants.

The freaking idiocy of the evangelicals in that video are what Oliver refers to in his writings.
In the above video, Jones makes a brilliant point. As soon as you remove the authority from interpreting scripture,you democratize it and when you democratize it, you get the chaos of democracy.

cordially

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 26 Aug 2023 16:12 | #

The freaking idiocy of the evangelicals in that video are what Oliver refers to in his writings.

I was fortunate to be born into a Catholic family. Glad you found your way out of Protestantism - what a bizarre mess! Amazing that so many people are taken advantage of by religious con artists. I suppose most of those people are very vulnerable and desperate looking for an escape from reality; those kinds of people are easy to manipulate. Charismatic religious con artists certainly do not miss any opportunities to take advantage of them. Fleecing the flock is their objective. Criminals, really. 

In the above video, Jones makes a brilliant point. As soon as you remove the authority from interpreting scripture,you democratize it and when you democratize it, you get the chaos of democracy.

Indeed! Jones is citing basic Catholic Church teachings there.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Sat, 26 Aug 2023 20:20 | #

Ralph (pronounced ‘Rafe’) Vaughan Williams wrote a book “National Music.”

14 minutes in here:
here

Williams Adagio for Strings is probably his most famous work in America, but his entire repertoire is stunning. It is also interesting in its total lack of percussion.

This on a discussion of Logos within the context of music. The Irish have the harp and some guy named

Turlough O’ Carolans

The word “National” jumped out at me which is why I am commenting on it here.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Sun, 27 Aug 2023 18:59 | #

In the above video, Jones makes a brilliant point. As soon as you remove the authority from interpreting scripture,you democratize it and when you democratize it, you get the chaos of democracy.

Which is a form of divide and conquer; furthermore, protestantism, like freudianism is a self-conquering ideology. You adopt the framework, you have been conquered by the jews (or satan, if you prefer).

Regarding @GW foray into heidegger, I am not going to comment on the philosophy until I have up my game to the level of Andrew Joyce. 

Do note, that my direct questions on the existence of demons where all ignored; never answered.
I had a similar thing happen to me recently on the matter of Sola Scriptura when engaging an ana-baptist who chimed in. The man refused 4 times to address a direct question, “where in the bible does it say ‘sola scriptura’” and not a peep.

Ergo, atheism and ana-baptists share a gene expression.

cordially

 

 

 

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Sun, 27 Aug 2023 20:05 | #

51 minutes in and I learn something fundamental about the English…

https://gab.com/EMichaelJones/posts/110939540133360899/media/1

The one thing you cannot be to be King of England is Catholic.

Kind of distills the issues, doesn’t it.

(:

cordially,

 

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Sun, 27 Aug 2023 20:30 | #

Hi Thorn.

I have been grappling with Jones’ “White is a category of the mind” statement for over a year now….here it is made explicit.

@52 minutes in, Jones’ “White is a category of the mind” makes itself explicit, for Jones , a Catholic is engaged in a religious war against the jews. The only defense is the Catholic faith.

Whew…got that one of my plate…gonna cross-post this to Tans site.

cordially.

 

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 27 Aug 2023 23:19 | #

“White is a category of the mind”

I like the way Jones outmaneuvered the ADL but I kinda disagree with him.

‘White’ is simply an umbrella term used to identify people of native European descent. It’s based on the distinct identifiable biological differences that set Europeans apart from any and all other human groupings, thus it’s not just a “category of the mind.”

The term “white” probably isn’t the best of terms we could use to categorized us (anti-whites figured out ways to effectively use that term against us). But until something better comes along, we are stuck with it.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Mon, 28 Aug 2023 11:25 | #

I agree with you. The charts of genetic dispersion show differences and those differences demand a label. White is a perfectly good term for that.

Jones does not go there because he only sees Catholic and non-Catholic.  That is his frame. team biological does not share this frame, and for them, White, is a term given to real natural phenomena

Frankly, I found it fascinating that the King of England can be anything except Catholic.  Expect the pain to increase.

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 28 Aug 2023 14:59 | #

White is a perfectly good term for that.

I was a perfectly good term for that. But the reality is the neo-Marxist ruling-class sucessfully made the terms “white” and “whitness” a perjorative. Moreover, they’ve labled pro-white advocacy (what they’ve officially deemed and refer to as “white-supremacism”) as America’s greatist domestic threat. Of course the greatist domestic threat is the hate being generated by anti-white movements viz CRT, “anti-racism” etc. I fear they are setting up whites for a fate akin to the Rawanda genocide whereas the crazed anti-whites will play the role of the Hutus and whites as their Tustsi victims. The hate and envy deliberately being directed against whites cannot be understated, it is being stoked up to a fever pitch and spead out across the board. Why most whites refuse to acknowlege that obvious fact is a puzzling question indeed.

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 28 Aug 2023 16:33 | #

Correction: ‘cannot be overstated’

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 30 Aug 2023 10:59 | #

Archbishop Viganò: Globalism is ‘satanic’ preparation for the ‘rise of the Antichrist’

The former Papal Nuncio expanded on his perception of an intimate link between globalism and satanism.

Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò has once again condemned the rise of “globalism,” stating that it prepares humanity “for the political rise of the Antichrist.”

In an August 24 interview with a French-language news outlet, Viganò commented on the rise of “globalism” and its impact upon society. Re-issuing a denouncement of globalism which he has consistently made, the archbishop linked corruption in society to corruption in the Catholic Church:

The element that in my opinion needs to be made clear – for the denunciation to be complete – is the specular relationship between the coup of the deep state in the civil sphere and the similar coup of the deep church in the ecclesiastical sphere. The “subversive action” undermining each sphere is “identical,” he stated, “as are the inspiring principles that move them and the goals they set.” /quote]

More

 

Posted by Al Ross on Thu, 31 Aug 2023 03:48 | #

@153 Ha ha !  The truck driver just learned that salient fact about England’s enemies not being allowed to ascend to the Throne of England ?

What an ignorant pleb you are.  Bet you know your Jew - invented Catechism though . You’d better memorise it, or its no Kike Heaven for you.

Posted by Al Ross on Thu, 31 Aug 2023 03:58 | #

I’m glad I’m an egalitarian Roman Catholic and not a Weberian Protestant Capitalist, said no Scot ever.

  https://historycollection.com/the-most-corrupt-and-scandalous-papacies-in-history/9/

The current Pope is concerned that LGBT deviants are being discriminated against by RCs . Naturally . The whole celibate edifice is built on buggery. It’s almost as if homosexuality were invented for RC clergy.

Timothy, have you and Thorn done the deed yet ?

Posted by Al Ross on Thu, 31 Aug 2023 04:12 | #

A vignette , if I may , re a Medici grandee.  A cousin of the Pope , this Medici was dying but, in an act of superstitious desperation, made a vow to a Saint that if he lived through the potentially fatal ailment the treasure dispatched from Florence would arrive in Rome.

The princeling died because the Saint did not deliver . The treasure was recalled , hence the term that all educated people know , viz., ‘ex - voto’,  i.e., some valuables destined for a Saint which are now on sale.

The Jewishness of Christianity shines through.

Posted by Al Ross on Thu, 31 Aug 2023 05:19 | #

Timothy Murray , Please do not worry about White people , terrestrially.  You will be forever residing amid Christianity’s Multi Culti Eternity.

Amazing coincidence though , the Jews require Multi/Culti for Whites here on earth , while contrarywise , you will be posthumously judged by a Stratospheric Semitic racial cognate.

You are , like AA Milne’s bear , a creature of little brain.

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 31 Aug 2023 11:53 | #

Articles such as this should’ve made the headlines fifty years ago. File it under #race-replacement and white genocide.

Elites discovered a way to convince white people to phase themselves out — and it’s working…

Excerpt:

Low birth rates are a problem, but mostly because they’re used by elites in the West to rationalize mass immigration. Replacing a nation’s people with foreigners, regardless of their ability to assimilate and succeed, does not perpetuate the nation in question – it erases it.

RTWT

 

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 02 Sep 2023 12:16 | #

#race-replacement in Italy

Et tu, Giorgia?

Italy’s ‘far-right’ leader Giorgia Meloni ‘learned to stop worrying and love migration’: Politico EU…

https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=63938

Posted by timothy murray on Sun, 03 Sep 2023 02:01 | #

Hi Thorn

While gw tries to make existentialism hip again, keep reading Logos Rising and get to Heisenberg and the collapse of atomism.

It breaks the distinction between faith (properly defined…spirago 101) and reason.

God bless

Posted by Al Ross on Sun, 03 Sep 2023 02:39 | #

  This is daunting stuff for believers in preposterous Jewish phantoms, but still worth reading, albeit at a level of intellectual achievement far beyond the comprehension of populist salvation peddlers like E.Michael Jones et al.

  https://archive.org/details/pdfy-KcxCF_yF9K5RT59N/page/n3/mode/2up

Posted by Al Ross on Sun, 03 Sep 2023 03:32 | #

It’s interesting to observe that American Christians have been so Judaized that , instead of, say, appreciating and venerating Handel’s Messiah , they vastly prefer this musically illiterate offering to Hebrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

  https://www.newsweek.com/how-drag-queen-became-christian-musics-top-musician-1816459

Posted by Al Ross on Sun, 03 Sep 2023 03:55 | #

Timothy Murray . Please give Thorn , a break from your Elmer Gantry preaching and simply introduce him to the concept of Kantian Antimony.  Thorn is an old man and is a long time reader of your half - baked ideas .

Thorn is a Christian . He is definitely going to the Heaven the Jews fictioned for you.  Please take yes for an undebatable answer re Thorn and leave the poor old bastard alone.

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 03 Sep 2023 13:46 | #

... keep reading Logos Rising and get to Heisenberg and the collapse of atomism.

It breaks the distinction between faith (properly defined…spirago 101) and reason.

Yes, Tim, I have to finish reading the book in its entirety this coming week (or month, lol). A few weeks back, I stalled out in the middle of chapter five. But I will say this: E. Michael Jones has an impressive intellect; he is one sharp dude! I’ve already learned a lot from Logos Rising. For one thing, it has increased my depth of knowledge vis-a-vis the Greek philosophers and their limitations.

Posted by timothy murray on Tue, 05 Sep 2023 01:53 | #

Hi Thorn

I think you will like this idea….just floating it here..

The best scientists are well versed in Philosophy…

Heisenberg, Maxwell….and here is Meyer on a show with somebody named Jor Rogan,  talking about the argument from epistemological necessity.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GURTd2_engk.

God bless

 

 

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 05 Sep 2023 22:24 | #

@171

I’m almost entirely in agreement with everything Meyer said. This particular statement strikes me as his most salient point:
”...our minds were made by a benevolent creator who gave us those assumptions…”

Hear! Hear!

But not everyone has been gifted with that ability. That’s why, I believe, so many buy into postmodernism. They construct a faux reality which suits the comfortable faux morally superior bubble they live in. White “liberals” are especially guilty of that. I can’t stand them!

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 06 Sep 2023 23:14 | #

In a nutshell:

Do Catholics believe in evolution?
The Catechism of the Catholic Church discourages literalism, encouraging believers to recognize the various literary genres found in the Bible.

RELIGION JOHN SWITZERPublished August 10, 2015

Imagine if we were able to see evolution as a sign of the unlimited potential of God’s creation, rather than a threat to our limited point of view.
For the biblical literalist, the theory of evolution is problematic because it appears to contradict the stories found in the earliest chapters of Genesis. But is literalism the best approach to understanding scripture? The Catechism of the Catholic Church discourages literalism when it encourages believers to recognize the various literary genres found in the Bible.
Another issue is that science and religion are each a distinct tool for the discovery and explanation of truth. The realm of science is concerned with data that can be empirically demonstrated or proven. The realm of religion has to do with the meaning of life and existence in a way that surpasses the physical world. The religious believer and scientist both make the same mistake when they wrongly attempt to use their own tools to judge the other. Theology and science each have their own methodologies, their own instruments, for the discovery of their particular areas of truth.
For the most part, the church has resolved any tensions between religion and science. In 1950, in his encyclical Humani Generis (On the Human Person), Pope Pius XII expressed concern that the theory of evolution not be embraced uncritically. He called for more research, but did not condemn the theory. In 1996 Pope John Paul II addressed the issue before the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. He sanctioned the acceptance of evolution, but reminded his listeners that spiritual questions like the nature of the soul and its relationship to God are beyond the realm of science.
Two years later John Paul issued his encyclical Fides et Ratio (On Faith and Reason), reminding the church that while faith is superior to reason, “there can never be a true divergence between faith and reason, since the same God who reveals the mysteries and bestows the gift of faith has also placed in the human spirit the light of reason.” This is reminiscent of St. Augustine of Hippo, who wrote that “truth, wherever it is to be found, belongs to our God.”
As befits the dignity of our species, we humans are forever in a search for truth to help us understand not only the world in which we exist but the meaning of that existence as well. We should use all the tools at our disposal, all the while recognizing the goodness of this distinctively human inquiry.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 12 Sep 2023 04:33 | #

In Galilee , there developed a Jewish heresy, its foundations are these :  Poverty , Equality and Hatred of the Rich. 

The principles of this sacred Christian doctrine are that it is just as impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven as for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. ; that the rich man is damned simply because he is rich.

To the suggestible disciples of this cult it is forbidden , ever , to lay up provision for the future. The dupe disciples are commanded to forsake all they have.

That shifty shyster Jesus , their chief , is emphatic and clear :  ” The Son of God came not to be ministered unto , but to minister ..... They that are First shall be Last .... Whosever exalteth himself shall be abased ; and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.”

Jews -  Christianity :  Jews -  Communism .  Compare and contrast.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 12 Sep 2023 06:37 | #

One of the most amusing aspects of God v No God is the fact that the putative God is always a Judeo / Christian asset .

What if God’s a Chinaman ?  What then , eh ?

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 12 Sep 2023 07:23 | #

Timothy , keep obfuscating about whether or not your old Jew God exists and keep misdirecting to your more comfortable “The Existence of Any Other Defective Psychological Chimera” type god is making you do what you do.  Anything you do is God’s fault. He created you and left well alone.

As I always remark . You are Heaven - bound , and thank Clapton for that.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 12 Sep 2023 09:38 | #

Here’s some info :  The Pope is descended from St Peter . Nope , Sorry Pope , you descended from nothing of the sort.  St Peter never set foot in Rome.

At its beginnings and for many years thereafter , The Church had no Bishops and only acquired them in the second century AD .

As we all know, Peter wrote his mystical mumbo jumbo while in situ in Babylon ?  Any questions ?

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 12 Sep 2023 23:12 | #

@174

Al, as usual, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/can-a-rich-person-get-to-heaven

 

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 13 Sep 2023 08:35 | #

@176 Have you ever in your life met such Jewish verbal legerdemain as the wad of piffle you quoted ?

What shines through here is the slinky , sly Jewishness of Christianity , best encapsulated in two words, Casuistry and Jesuitry .

Go and read the OT . It’s a blueprint for Jewish Supremacism . The NT simply has a different opinion on how to achieve it.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Thu, 14 Sep 2023 19:05 | #

Hi Thorn

Jones has an interview up at Ourosvox and while I have not watched the video yet, the host hoisted this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Scholastic-Metaphysics-Contemporary-Introduction-Scholasticae/dp/3868385444

That is metaphysics, I suspect Epistemology and Ontology (or is Ontology a subset of metaphysics? or both?) have similar books.

Fun stuff.

Regarding the Al’s comment on the O.T.  ...

The Bible is not God. His revelation of Himself is not dependant on the jews…see Jones’ these Logos Rising…which, despite the jewish claims to supremacy and continued chosenness, predates the existence of the patriarchs.

Being a retrograde pervert of a man, Al cannot fathom God’s sense of humor—it is sardonic when required, yet entirely holy.  Since the Al’s reason continues to be dimmed and clouded by original sin the Al cannot see.
It is very humourous how those most invested in reason, are those least aware of its limitations. The consequences are the same as those for other idolatries…the perversion of the man that adopts them.

Regarding Jones’ #LogosRising thesis, we see India divesting itself of the slime that conquered them; the Indian (dot, not feather) featured in the below video .

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-91323-tradewinds-of-change

Is urging acting in harmony with #Logos while not using the language of Christ, the Logos. 

Regarding God’s sense of humour, expect Al to wake up on his deathbed realizing that all the nations that his empire conquered are now Catholic, while the Ozymandias that was England is no more.

Cordially.

 

 

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 15 Sep 2023 00:24 | #

Dr. James Tour, who Al, despite his peach under cream fetish , will never aspire to lays down the gauntlet.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UColdwL6T062LNo65OHngXAQ

Man up, peaches.

#LogosRising

 

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 15 Sep 2023 00:49 | #

And it gets better.

Dr. James Tour has taken the measure Al without ever meeting him.

https://youtu.be/LAwwsewPxUs?t=938

At least Al has the comfort of his dreams where he is humping Wittgenstein’s peach

#LogosRising

 

 

 

 

Posted by Timothy Murray on Fri, 15 Sep 2023 00:51 | #

@GW

I have twice posted comments which directly challenge your materialist idiocy.

Do you care to engage and post those links? or are you an intellectual coward?

Cordially

t.

 

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 15 Sep 2023 08:05 | #

Obviously, faith and reason are strangers to one another, Tim, and neither ordinarily speaks to or of the other with much authority.  Nevertheless, I try to rise above that difficulty by writing of faith (a) from the higher ground of (what I have described as) the esoteric circle, and (b) from my own evolutionary theory of it.  I have begun the second essay required to establish the nature and function of attention.  The following three opening paras are not, therefore, intended as a rebuttal of your faithism, but as a means of its disposition.

KJV, 1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Each one of us stands raw and constantly renewing within this immediate world in all its own raw and constantly renewing wholeness, which encompasses us as it encompasses all things organic and inorganic, and from which neither we nor anything else can absent itself.  “For now” in this hyper-material, primordial reality, this singular congruence no wider than a razor’s edge, we do not stand with any cognition of ourselves as beings separated out by self-hood and by the fateful time-lapse of our own thinking, or even that of our feeling or sensing in any form.  We are naïve as we are raw, and both of these only while cognition may trail but a few milliseconds adrift.  Once we join with it everything changes.

This, then, is the biblical Garden of Eden, and although the holy scribes and seers of the ancient world understood that, by the serpentine order of things, processing information about it expels us from it (ie, it cannot be experienced in Mind), they only had poetry and myth to represent the fact.  They did not have the benefit of modern science or evolutionary theory or even Western epistemology to know why or to explicate the totality of the caesura.  They could not know that Mind emerges first from the enzyme catalysis, light- and heat-seeking, and quorum sensing of simple cells which they never saw and never suspected to exist.  They could not know, therefore, that such a defining and constitutive origin renders our cognitive process today, with all its dissonant temporality, as imminent and inextinguishable as any tribal god they might cook up.  They could not know that Mind and divine truth, should such a thing exist, rightfully have contrary dynamics.  If there are truths in the paradisal garden that are divine, they are forever beyond Mind’s necessary, disjunctive filter.

Put another way, even the most intense and elevated liberational event by which mystics self-verify Union with the All ... even that remains informational.  Yes, the thinking mind’s relentless, drenching chatter can be stilled, at least for a brief while.  If the subject is a serious individual, fifteen years or so tanning himself on a Californian beach while, of course, bent in the regulation lotus posture, and following every breath into and out of the body (in other words, actual prayer, not the church pew thing), then a certain equilibrium might restore itself for a time and a certain detachment might yield real profundity.  But the totality that is the cognitive Mind remains operative and absolute, and in the final analysis such efforts represent no more than a reaching towards the unreachable.  So it is that one of the two great causes of every religion - Union with the All – remains a literal impossibility in this life at least (and we need not let eternal salvation in the next detain us).  What, then, is actually taking place?  How are we to bring this entire dispensation within the ontological sphere?

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 15 Sep 2023 11:09 | #

@184

GW, what you describe in your opening paras is pretty much where my worldview was during my know-it-all atheist teen years. What changed my mind was an article I read about the Big Bang Theory. Great article but it didn’t explain how the super dense mass located in an infinite space got there in the first place. To make a long story short, the question caused me to engage in an exercise of infinite regress (even though at that time I never heard of the term infinite regress). Anyway, I determined there had to be a first cause and came to the conclusion God must be the first cause. No other explanation can suffice. Something cannot come from nothing. Simple logic! Once I came to the realization God is the first cause, then I delved into the marketplace of belief systems. After surveying several of them, I arrived at the realization that the Holy Bible as presented and taught by the Roman Catholic Church, by far, made the most sense. Bottom line, I realized how foolish my time spent as an atheist was. So glad I was able to reason my way out of that one-way dead end street!

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 15 Sep 2023 20:04 | #

I am puzzled as to what it is you think I am saying, Thorn.  To me it’s clear, linking Paul to late Hiedegger by way of esoterism and the philosophy of Mind. 

It says nothing about the origin of the universe, which has absolutely nothing to do with anything.  Generally, speaking, it’s a good idea not to reduce everything to the simple, or simply crude. Theoretical physicists and mathematicians freely admit that we may never know whether there was “nothing” prior to Time and Space, or whether “prior” can even have a meaning.  You don’t know.  Moses deffo did not know, and his invented tribal deity couldn’t help him.  Faith, despite its importunate claims, does not help.  We should speak less on the matter and wait patiently.

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 15 Sep 2023 22:09 | #

“Generally, speaking, it’s a good idea not to reduce everything to the simple, or simply crude.”

With all due respect, GW, it’s an even worse idea to make the complex even more complex as expressed by way of a quasi-word salad. Doing so only creates misunderstanding and confusion. The most effective communicators have the ability to take complex ideas and break them down to where the average reader can process and understand them. Just sayin’.

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 16 Sep 2023 08:25 | #

The “word salad” is actually an address of The Fall, or Exile, or Maya, or however our universal cognitive declension, which I have termed ordinary waking consciousness, is termed.  Where the Old Testament speaks of Eden, Western philosophers refer to Man in the world-reality.  Think of Kant with “the thing that is” or, slightly different in focus, Heidegger with his post-1930 introduction of Beyng.  A large part of serious thought is given over to the dichotomies of our being in the world, and the genesis of error.  It is why, in my petty way, I start with foundation and constitution.  It is incumbent on those who have expressed faith to restrain their need to impose it on the debate, and to contribute however else they can, and this I invite you to do.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Sat, 16 Sep 2023 11:54 | #

@GW is right.

In a purely intellectual context it is useful to set aside reality and deal only with a subset of ideas as they are to see where they lead.  We see this in music all the time; it happened in mathematics with the decision to create ‘i’  . Big , big things flowed from that.

@GW’s decision to mis-define faith and persist in his errors, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary by minds much better than his is his decision to make.

That said, it is sad to see such low standards…like a good restaurant that has replaced its linen with paper napkins.

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 16 Sep 2023 16:05 | #

Think of Kant with “the thing that is”

The thing-in-itself is a concept introduced by Immanuel Kant, the German philosopher, to refer to the status of objects as they are, independent of representation and observation. Kant contrasted the thing-in-itself with the phenomenon, the thing as it appears to an observer. The thing-in-itself is also related to the idea of noumenon, the essence of something that exists beyond human knowledge.

Primacy of Existence vs. Primacy of Consciousness
¶
The basic metaphysical issue that lies at the root of any system of philosophy [is] the primacy of existence or the primacy of consciousness.

The primacy of existence (of reality) is the axiom that existence exists, i.e., that the universe exists independent of consciousness (of any consciousness), that things are what they are, that they possess a specific nature, an identity. The epistemological corollary is the axiom that consciousness is the faculty of perceiving that which exists—and that man gains knowledge of reality by looking outward. The rejection of these axioms represents a reversal: the primacy of consciousness—the notion that the universe has no independent existence, that it is the product of a consciousness (either human or divine or both). The epistemological corollary is the notion that man gains knowledge of reality by looking inward (either at his own consciousness or at the revelations it receives from another, superior consciousness).

The source of this reversal is the inability or unwillingness fully to grasp the difference between one’s inner state and the outer world, i.e., between the perceiver and the perceived (thus blending consciousness and existence into one indeterminate package-deal). This crucial distinction is not given to man automatically; it has to be learned. It is implicit in any awareness, but it has to be grasped conceptually and held as an absolute.

Aristotle’s Law of Identity states that an entity without an identity cannot exist because it would be nothing. To exist is to exist as something, and that means to exist with a particular identity. An object cannot have two identities; a tree cannot be a telephone, and a dog cannot be a cat. Another formulation of the principle of identity asserts that a thing is identical with itself. Aristotle cited the laws of contradiction and of excluded middle as examples of axioms.

A is A.
A is not B.
A is A.

“It is incumbent on those who have expressed faith to restrain their need to impose it on the debate, and to contribute however else they can, and this I invite you to do.”

GW, I, for one, make a conscious effort to separate my faith from science and objective truth. I’ve always known how important that is.

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 16 Sep 2023 23:12 | #

“Where the Old Testament speaks of Eden, Western philosophers refer to Man in the world-reality.”

Are you actually asserting the Book of Genisis has been debunked by modern Western philosophers? Can you understand that when the Book of Genisis was written people at that time were not privy to contemporary scientific discoveries thus they would not understand creation in modern terms? Are you saying modern science rendered the Book of Genesis as mythical or fictional?

Posted by Al Ross on Sun, 17 Sep 2023 04:45 | #

Ha Ha ! Thorn understands Kant .  No Can’t.

Posted by Al Ross on Sun, 17 Sep 2023 04:52 | #

You , TM are the Master of the Supernatural Non Sequitur.

Don’t worry about being dead and going to Jew- invented Heaven . Relax and convert Muslims one by one. Now that’s a challenge.

Posted by Al Ross on Sun, 17 Sep 2023 05:41 | #

TM , as far as E. Michael Jones goes , he is simply a snapper up of unconsidered trifles and when he gathers them together , the holy fool thinks he has solved an hitherto insoluble philosophical jigsaw puzzle.

As the closing number of The Sopranos goes, ” Don’t Stop Believing “.

Posted by Al Ross on Sun, 17 Sep 2023 10:48 | #

Anyone who has visited the Vatican Museum and perused its art treasures may immediately be assured that the priceless hoard is a highly valued testimonial to the abject stupidity of cash strapped Roman Catholic peasants , truck drivers and the like.

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 17 Sep 2023 22:39 | #

@195

LOL ... What a clown. Al is too stupid to understand that he is displaying what an economic illiterate he is.

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 18 Sep 2023 22:53 | #

Thorn, in his lecture The Principle of Identity, given in Freiburg on June 27th 1957, Heidegger reprised the two millenia of thought about Being and Identity which stretch from the pre-Socratics to the modern age.  He asked that we reflect upon difference’s source in identity from the qualities particular to our act or event of self-appropriation (however rare that might be) and the profound sense of permanence which abides therein.  He dispatched the usual (he claims, egalitarian) formulation of A = A at the outset, eventually arriving at identity as that unity which belongs together.  Identity is relational because relation is synthesising and integrational.  Difference is non-relational and dis-integrating.  Identity is affirmational.  Difference is negating.

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 19 Sep 2023 06:59 | #

Thorn,

Are you actually asserting the Book of Genisis has been debunked by modern Western philosophers? Can you understand that when the Book of Genisis was written people at that time were not privy to contemporary scientific discoveries thus they would not understand creation in modern terms? Are you saying modern science rendered the Book of Genesis as mythical or fictional?

No, the opposite in respect to this very narrow matter of raw reality of the world.  I am very plainly saying that the Israelite priests who confabulated their “primeval history” ... their creation myth ... aptly grasped the function and effect of Mind on Man within that reality.  But as with the A = A definition of identity, understandings improve with the generations of men.

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 19 Sep 2023 12:37 | #

I am very plainly saying that the Israelite priests who confabulated their “primeval history” ... their creation myth ... aptly grasped the function and effect of Mind on Man within that reality.

It boils down to whether you believe some Israeli priests “confabulated’ a creation myth or that the first three chapters of the Book of Genisis (BoG) were of divine revelation. That is the question. I tend towards the latter. And keep in mind, the BoG was written 3,000 years ago and worded in the simplest terms so as the people of that time period would be able to grasp its larger meaning. Moving forward from that ancient time, science and scientific discovery have gradually answered a lot of questions and provided a lot of details as to how the physical world came to be - the building blocks and mechanics of it (but we’re still at the early stages). Juxtapose modern science with that of 3,000 years ago and the BoC does appear to be fairy tales. But explaining astrophysics or contemporary fields of biology to the peasants was not the purpose of the BoG, it was to provide them a simple narrative outlining the stages of God’s creation.

The BoG also provides a good foundational basis for explaining human nature/behavior, e.g., the existence of good and evil and why Mankind tends towards to evil side of the ledger.

But as with the A = A definition of identity, understandings improve with the generations of men.

GW, I agree with that. And after a cursory glance at the work of your fave philosopher, Martin Heidegger, I find him to be a very profound thinker thus worth perusing further ... which I sincerely intend to do.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 20 Sep 2023 04:44 | #

@189 Very droll .

I have just viewed the Christian dolt whom you foolishly referenced .  There are much better examples of Middle Eastern Semitic ordure promoters than this mattoid.

My favourite is the inevitably American , Oral Roberts , who saw a 900 feet tall Jesus telling him what to do about raising more money.  Dumb , Dumb , Dumbly Dumb :

  https://beyondchron.org/he-talked-to-a-900-foot-jesus/

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 20 Sep 2023 06:38 | #

Let me help you , TM,  comprehend the Middle Eastern Semitic Supernatural argument against me .

It’s my ego . I have absolutely no moral responsibility ( forget ancient Greek culture , of which I suspect you are ignorant ) without the Christian (Talmudic) oversight of a race which detests mine.

  Please leave the Middle East and have no future Truck with Christianity’s pigpen freight.  A complete Convoy of Crap.  This here’s Breaker One.

 

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:03 | #

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBlnTz4fr5k

  Fun for morons.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:40 | #

One of the most risible and egocentric statements ,  Christ ,  :  ” A cursory glance” . The Thorn Dummy kinda approves.

  Heidegger’s philosophy deserves full intellectual disclosure when it comes to analysis . Did TM and you meet up during your Philosophy Masters course at the Community College of Trucking and Logistics ? In which case you are both as lost as Colonel Fawcett in Brazil.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 20 Sep 2023 10:32 | #

One of the funniest American Christian conmen was Herbert W . Armstrong of the ( six or seven southern state encompassing) WORLDWIDE CHURCH of GOD.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstrongism

The old faker and his embezzler son , Garner Ted Armstrong , told gullible Christians ( tautologically speaking ) that they would all go to Heaven.

Rib ticklingly hilarious , as are all Christian con artists.

Posted by Timothy Murray on Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:42 | #

Hi Thorn,

From Logos Rising, Garrouge-Lagrange refutes Hegelian dialectic thusly…

“...the last word of modern philosophy consists in affirming that the fundamental reality is ‘becoming’ . Well, that returns one to say, as Hegel recognized, that the intimate nature of things is a realized contradiction. To deny the principle of identity as the fundamental law of the real , is to affirm that contradiction is at the very heart of the real. To suppress pure Act, which is to being as A is to A, to suppress divine transcendence, is to put absurdity at the root of everything

As for @GW’s perspective on the law of non-contradiction, I do not take seriously the blog owner, who like the neocon ideologues,  rejects and suppresses evidence that contradicts his long term goal.

There is no debate here, there is only @GW’s program; it is could to look at it from MacDonald’s view of jewish intellectual projects, things like Kinsey, who was used by the jews (backed by protestant America) to de-moralize and debase the German people, or Freud who inverted the model of the human soul, or the latest goulish jewish monster who wants to destroy “spirit”.

Best of luck to you.

 

 

 

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 27 Sep 2023 11:05 | #

@205

And all the best to you too, Tim.

God bless.

Posted by Richard Yorke on Thu, 28 Sep 2023 00:00 | #

Genesis concerns the states of regeneration of man. Correspondences such as the Sun and Moon denoting love and faith. The sun wasn’t created until the forth day, days without the sun.

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 30 Sep 2023 01:39 | #

Here’s the Tranny nature of Christianity as explained by one of the old Jew - nonsense’s towering intellects :

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We2_myqkqNA

Posted by timothy murray on Tue, 03 Oct 2023 22:42 | #

Hi Thorn

The word is obscurantist

https://www.bing.com/search?q=obscurantist&PC=U316&FORM=CHROMN

The bad fillms, attire and novels of the fly that was existentialism have inspired ....nobody.

There is no inspiration without Spirit.

cordially.

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 04 Oct 2023 11:41 | #

Hey, Tim.

The word is obscurantist

And don’t forget to toss in some obliqueness and ambiguity just to add a couple layers of flavor. lol

There is no inspiration without Spirit.

Hear! Hear!

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 04 Oct 2023 13:44 | #

Spirit is a lie.  Men’s minds are suggestible, and lies take hold easily.  But authenticity is the real deal.

Posted by Al Ross on Fri, 06 Oct 2023 03:12 | #

#210 Surely , if the idea of Biblical (((Law))) is applied to Theology ( God does not exist , so , Knowledge of Nothing , Harry Potter fan style ) , the process of the unfortunate White dupe’s mind is like the study of electricity .

  Every truth stands upright on its own evidence and nothing should be believed by White people simply because an ancient Jew - book declares it.

Posted by Al Ross on Fri, 06 Oct 2023 03:57 | #

As we all know , Christians purport to believe , agin the Laws of Physics , that miracles are possible. 

We may assume , as theologians do , that God is personal .  The Muslims say “closer than the jugular” , so , any personal miracles happened lately to TM and his theological acolyte , Dummy Thorn ?  No sudden IQ elevation . No Black home invaders at 3am told ” It’s Glock O’Clock, Niggas “.  Er , sorry future fellow Heaven - dwellers.

Posted by Al Ross on Fri, 06 Oct 2023 06:01 | #

GW , it seems that Rory Stewart is a rising star these days.

I assumed a ” John Standing” type persona for the purpose of bringing him down to Earth.

Rory Stewart has impressive Intelligence connections so he may try to get me kicked out of the Royal Lake Club.

  https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1709921493692391738

Posted by Al Ross on Fri, 06 Oct 2023 06:31 | #

The relevance of KL ‘s Royal Lake Club is , that was the venue at which Rory Stewart learnt to swim.

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 06 Oct 2023 06:58 | #

Last I heard, Rory was moving away from party politics because he had to defend policies in which he did not believe. What he is saying, of course, is that all along he only really wanted to be a History Man, and saw the Conservative Party as a vehicle to that end.  All he had to do was to present his nascent greatness to the little people and history would take care of everything else.  Another dangerously deluded messiah avoided.

Posted by Al Ross on Fri, 06 Oct 2023 07:45 | #

  Perhaps . Someone who is a natural future Lib Dem leadership dummy may avoid the temptation to enter the lists at present.

Rory Stewart is likely to be a EU Commissioner in UK’s proximate rejoining future.

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 06 Oct 2023 10:29 | #

@212

“the process of the unfortunate White dupe’s mind is like the study of electricity.”
- Oddball Al

Ooh Ahh .... how deep!! ... NOT!!!

LMAO

What a tard.

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 06 Oct 2023 10:34 | #

Not a big fan of Friedrich Nietzsche but I like this quote of his:

THEY MUDDY THE WATER, TO MAKE IT SEEM DEEP.

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:46 | #

The question I asked you on the other current thread is clarifying, Thorn, not muddying.  You are evading it by saying, in effect, “Don’t go there cuz Jesus.  No, look over here at the The War on Whites.”  Which tell us that, actually, you agree with my conclusion or, at least, can’t argue otherwise; but will not face up to the fact.

Here is the question again:

Do you accept that the individualising and de-ethnicising/universalising characteristics of Christian doctrine derive from Judaism’s model for the a-causal, amorphous and servile gentile of Olam Ha-ba?

Here is another:

Do you think that the dropping of the dicta of hell and damnation (forced through the the loss of innocent life in 1914-18) exposed the whole of the Christian message of eternal life by salvation from sin to hazard from common, rational sense?

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 06 Oct 2023 19:42 | #

Do you accept that the individualising and de-ethnicising/universalising characteristics of Christian doctrine derive from Judaism’s model for the a-causal, amorphous and servile gentile of Olam Ha-ba?

I wrote a long rambling answer, but it didn’t post! WTF!

While I think we agree Christianity is a universal religion and has its roots in Judaism, I don’t accept the notion that Christianity necessarily ‘de-ethnicises’ its followers. The reality is the secular leftist ideologies -via the educational system - are doing a good job of “de-ethnicising” whites, and whites only. The colleges and universities are in the business of mass producing anti-white whites. Nor do I accept the notion that we are somehow servile to the “Jewish Mind.” Moreover, I find ridiculous the narrative that asserts: “Jews invented Christianity and deviously designed it so as to effectively weaken its European enemies.” “It’s all been a shrewd, cunning, elaborate two thousand yearlong plot masterfully executed by those super clever Joos, don’t cha know.” Laughable!!  Quite frankly I regard that line of thought as the grievance of a madman.

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 06 Oct 2023 20:24 | #

Speaking for myself, GW, I don’t know with certainty if there is eternal life and or a Heaven and Hell. But the salvation vs damnation narrative parallels with good vs evil, human nature and freewill. The best way to live is to choose to do good. Doing the right thing makes going through life so much easier. And who knows, by doing good, you may wind up spending eternity in Heaven. There is no downside. It’s a win, win!

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 07 Oct 2023 00:09 | #

Thorn, since you raised the Aristotelian formula, we’ll stick with that for now.  When we speak of identity, only the authentic relation between our passing sense of self-in-the-mind and that permanence which is found in presence-to-being actually expresses a = a.  The rest of the time, where there is no “real” relation, a confected model rules but only ever expresses b ≠ a.  It is obviously important that a religion, of all things, cleaves to the former.  The charge in respect to Christianity is that, as a matter of dicta, it does not do that; indeed, it has no mechanics in any practise of the exoteric church for such an action.  The tragedy of Western Man since Constantin is that the hard thing of recovering a from b is excluded from his general life.  When I speak of the esoteric I am specifically gesturing towards that practise of recovery.  It is in Islam in certain forms of Sufism.  It is in Buddhism, of course, and in Hinduism.  But one gets the sense that Christianity was never designed to that end.  Rather it has another end of no use to us at all.

I find the northern European age of standing stones and great earthworks placed across the landscape fascinating precisely because they suggest that, five hundred generations ago, this question of the authentic was understood to be worth such vast labours.  We are not racially unmindful of it.  We simple have no service from the dicta of our faith.

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 07 Oct 2023 23:20 | #

GW, the most virulent anti-white activists are virulent anti-trad Christian. Why do you think that is that so?

Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 08 Oct 2023 12:30 | #

Who do you mean?  Pharisees/Talmudists?  “The radical, culture-warring left”?

A few years ago I saw a video of a speech by a Russian-Jewish lesbian activist - so, both Jewish and radically leftist - celebrating some milestone in her quest for absolute homosexual equalness.  The absolute, in her case, means that sexually whole and normal people must become unable to distinguish human beings at all in any reproductive sense.  Everything must be fluid and indeterminant.  Even setting aside the Judaic component in it, this is the homosexuality-based Marxist’s equivalent to the immigrationist’s real goal of the genetic dissolution of the European race by race-mixing.  But even the achievement of her stated ideal would not actually be enough for this Russian-Jewish woman.  In the same video she went on to urge her audience to remember that the real goal is the ending of the family.

Needy Christian faithists can claim as much as they like that it’s all about their faith, but there are other “absolutes” depending on the individual activist.  I think that, really, the point you are making is at best tangential to the one I am trying to discuss, which concerns Christianity’s programmatic re-engineering of the believer’s identity.  Inevitably, it is self-estranging and, therefore, non-optimal for our race.  It has taken centuries and also the secularisation of Christianity as liberalism and, then, Marxism, for its Judaic antecedents to come to the fore.  But the seeds of them were always there, from Constantin onward; and they are front, left, and centre now.  My response is to return to the prior meanings.  I ask you to address those meanings. Argue with them from a Christian perspective if you must.  But don’t tell me that it is just fine for Yahweh to be top dog.  We are the creator race.  Nothing Hebreic ... absolutely nothing ... ought to be over us.  OK, half or perhaps two-thirds of Northern Europeans carry expressed genes for faith.  Let us respect the expression but not its systematisation in an alien form.  Let us question even in faith, according to our sublime northern nature.

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 08 Oct 2023 18:46 | #

“Christianity’s programmatic re-engineering of the believer’s identity. ... It has taken centuries ...”

GW, I grew up in Detroit (half a mile south of 8 Mile) during the 60s and early 70s. It was a 100% white neighborhood nearly 100% of the residents proclaimed to be Christian - predominately Roman Catholic with a significant Lutheran minority. I don’t recall any of my neighbors, friends, or parents of my friends wearing their Christian faith on their sleeves. We all regarded our religious beliefs as being personal. Actually, we were all very subtle about our faith. Moreover, I didn’t detect any evidence of anyone I knew that had any kind of confusion about their white identity; they were all proud of being white. Everyone was quite well aware of the stark differences between blacks and whites. Afterall, it was Detroit in the 1960s! That said, I get the impression you view, or define, all Christians as being Jesus freaks (remember them?) or products of those kooky Protestant televangelists. I used to get a good laugh watching them on TV. I even once attended a little evangelical church that a freind of my wife belonged to. They freakin’ spoke in tongues! Blurted shit out in Latin! LOL Like I said here before, there are 40,000 Christian denominations and, IMHO, at least 39,995 are illegitimate. At any rate, I witnessed the start of the major change in white identity during the 1960s. That’s when I first became aware of the term “anti-racism.” It was then I started noticing the culture began to move towards becoming explicitly anti-white. Fast forward to today and “antiracism” has become a left-wing religion in which it teaches that “whiteness” is the original sin of which there is no redemption. Unfortunately, the false religion of “antiracism” has become accepted on practiced among nearly all in the white ruling-class. It is now infused in Western culture. Politics is downstream of culture (or politics is part of our culture) which helps explain why our elected and unelected leaders have become traitors to their own race. They, along with a large segment of the white masses, have succumbed to the pressure - bent to the will of the anti-white left.  Of course, many powerful Jews play a big role in that dynamic. The religions of “Antiracism” and Holocaustianity are two of the main influences preventing the chances of a healthy white identity making a come-back. Whites act like they are oblivious to the genocidal attack on the very race they belong to. Point it out to them and they immediately stick their head in the sand. They act so afraid of the truth. Pathetic!

 

Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 08 Oct 2023 23:07 | #

There are many sources of our woes. This chart is an attempt to bring them all together - something I attempted in February of last year in a piece written for Patriotic Alternative:

I don’t know that I would make the same chart again now.  But it suffices for my immediate purpose here, which is to explain as clearly as possible that we do not make politics simply by railing against any or all of these.  Reaction is historically barren.  Actually, to make politics we first have to make philosophy.  There is no short cut.  No matter that it seems pointless and irrelevant to those at the sharp end, living in the hell our overlords have made for us.  No matter that the hour is late, and the position parlous; and no matter that people like you grow ever more clamorous of some action ... any action.  Without some positive address of the great human questions, which differs fundamentally from the present controlling ideas in the West and offers an holistic and vivifying alternative grounded in Truth ... without that, the pattern of failure will persist.  Nationalists and nationalist parties will materialise, glow for a time, and soon fade from sight.  This has been our experience my whole life.  I do not expect anything different from our movement unless creative intellectuals come forward to model change.

What do I mean by “creative intellectuals”.  Well, this is a tiny constituency.  Most thinkers, including the great majority of philosophers, analyse from within the grand intellectual currents of the age.  They stand in this or that intellectual fashion or movement or form of critique, move things about a little, being sure to cite all their peers in the approved manner, and hope to leave behind them something said peers will consider significant.  Creatives, however, stand not in an intellectual movement but in history.  They dispose of the formative ideas at work around them in an entirely original and agentive way, and strike out anew on the basis of found truths, opening unsuspected possibilities of an epochal scale.  This is what we actually need to give energy and power and historical purchase to our work.  I don’t know whether there is a single such free, able mind in the West today.  But I make the case, Baptist-style.  Of course, that case is not generally understood by our fellow nationalists, who cling to what they know.  I only wish it were otherwise.

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 09 Oct 2023 14:38 | #

I do not expect anything different from our movement unless creative intellectuals come forward to model change.

I agree, and your comment reminded me of this sentence in an article I read this morning:

Given this predicament, assimilation is impossible unless you can trigger a passion among immigrants for Western values. No one has discovered how to activate this.

For the purposes of the topic of our discussion, I would reword it this way: Saving the White race is next to impossible unless you can trigger a passion among whites to unwaveringly support a pro-white movement. No one yet has discovered a way to activate this.

.

Here’s the article:

The Great Replacement, Canada Edition
October 2, 2023

Jayant Bhandari, an Indian immigrant to Canada, reflects on the effects of immigration now that 26 percent of the country is first-generation immigrants:

{snip}
Did I leave India because of its utterly venal and oppressive government? Not really. They [sic] are utterly stupid, and bribes take care of everything. But the character of the government is a symptom of the underlying society. It was the Indian society that I ran away from, which has no concept of honor, integrity, moral values, rationality, or interest in anything except the material, which is money and sex.

More precisely, I ran away from Indians.

With time, the institutions the British left behind have been hallowed out in India, and the civilizational constraints that they had imposed have fallen apart. With time, India is bound to become increasingly barbaric and savage. Not because of so much because of the Indian government but because of Indians.

India provides 27% of Canada’s new immigrants. Most other immigrants come from other Third World hellholes and have similar cultural backgrounds, one rooted in materialism and the absence of civilizational constraints and moral values.

Every Indian city today has at least one high-rise building devoted to housing agencies that help people immigrate to Canada, most offering help creating fake documents or getting admission to colleges structured not for education but for assisting people to stay in Canada long enough to become citizens.

Crazy, isn’t it, that Canada has given itself away to those who faked documents? So much for the much-touted skilled-class immigrants!

Canadians have no choice but to learn about India, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Syria, and other Third World countries. They should all be visiting India and sending their daughters and sons to know about it, for it is what they are bringing in. However, when they send their daughters, they should have male company. They should visit to learn what Europeans of the past understood, the wisdom that political correctness has erased from the Canadian psyche.
{snip}

RTWT
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2023/09/jayant-bhandari/canada-the-great-replacement/

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 10 Oct 2023 07:00 | #

#228   You are preternaturally obtuse .  White people came to Canada , pacified the “Indians” and built a sub zero facsimile of UK .

Real Indians arrived and are displacing the Brit - descended people.  Why do you care ?

Your old Jew God loves every human being so that’s all right then.  What do you think your Jew - created Heaven will look like ?

A Rotary Club meeting of potato farmers in Idaho ?

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 10 Oct 2023 07:12 | #

#228 This is marvellous comedy . 

  Forty thousand ways to skin a Cat(holic ) and Dummy Thorn only believes in just one methodology.

Always remember , DT , that your Jew - derived myths are situated in the least utilised sector of your anatomy , i.e., your cerebral mechanism.

Let’s hear more about your Supernatural beliefs .  Nobody will be Cross.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:03 | #

#205 That ” best of luck ” comment is amusing and intrinsically blasphemous .

Your old Jew God does not encourage his dupes to believe in Luck.

Learn some Theology of the non - Irish peasant variety.

En passant , “good luck” is a redundant term as all ” luck” is deemed good .

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 10 Oct 2023 23:13 | #

Just curious, but how old are you, Al?

Posted by Al Ross on Fri, 13 Oct 2023 03:15 | #

Old enough to know better than to debate with stupid Christians , tautologically speaking.
 
But , as regards improving my behaviour , I’m off to a slow start.

Posted by Al Ross on Fri, 13 Oct 2023 04:53 | #

If , Thorn , you , unlike the majority of your fellow Americans , were inclined to acquire a passport , here’s a prequal of how you folks conduct yourselves :

https://www.jrbooksonline.com/faem/oliver/rpo140.htm

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:23 | #

LOL

Odious Al amounts to Majorityrights.com’s one man peanut gallery. Peanut sized brain and all.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 17 Oct 2023 09:06 | #

A good , firm, dose of old Jesus is what you require to cure your peanut allergy .  Hair shirt , self flagellation ?  I’ve got the intellectual whip hand in case you miss a few strokes. . You don’t need me to sell it.

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 18 Oct 2023 23:19 | #

@236
Hey, dummy, I’m not trying to convert you. In fact, I don’t give a fuck what happens to you. Seriously.

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 19 Oct 2023 23:23 | #

In the abstract, if one were to compare the White Nationalist movement to an elite country club, AL Ross and his ilk should be regarded as the metaphorical turd in the swimming pool.

Just sayin; ....

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 20 Oct 2023 13:54 | #

Al makes his living as a model for dunce caps. Perfect job for him. He’s a natural. lol

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 24 Oct 2023 02:25 | #

” In the abstract?” 

  Thorn is to abstract thought as Bibi Netanyahu is to Islamism.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 24 Oct 2023 02:40 | #

” Country Club” ? My Far East club memberships are purely urban , i.e., Hong Kong , Singapore and KL.  In my home nation of Scotland , I have retained one golf club membership and it traditionally excluded Jews .  Its once sensible policy is no more.

The whole of the United Snakes of America is a CUNTRY Club .  You should run for President and doubtless be beaten by an even stupider dusky Cunt Christian Commie.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 24 Oct 2023 03:03 | #

# 238

  This is fakery . Thorn has never used the grammatical speculative case as in the cut and paste ” if one were to compare”.

This is not how syntax is customarily observed in Bumfuck, Alabama.

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 24 Oct 2023 12:14 | #

@241

“My Far East club memberships are purely urban , i.e., Hong Kong , Singapore and KL.”

Of course they are!

And no doubt the only clubs Al could be accepted into are “purely urban” men’s bathhouses. After all, his greatest talent is excelling in circle jerks with his likeminded intellectual wannabes.

Posted by Al Ross on Sun, 29 Oct 2023 02:30 | #

” Bathhouses” ?  The Pride of San Francisco , City of Buggerly Love . Named , aptly it seems , after a Roman Catholic . 

  https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/27/spanish-inquiry-finds-more-than-200000-children-may-have-been-abused-in-catholic-instituti

  I make no claim to be an intellectual but an unfair comparison with your feeble mindedness might nudge me , by American standards, into hitherto uncharted territory in that regard.

Posted by Al Ross on Sun, 29 Oct 2023 02:50 | #

Which nitwit madhouse country would put a Nigerian in partial charge ( beneath a Jew ) of the finances ?

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wally_Adeyemo

Posted by Al Ross on Sun, 29 Oct 2023 04:59 | #

@241

One of the many good things about the Colonial legacy of the Far East is that when , as I did , one moves from say HK to Penang , one can safely write off HK subscription costs because the club in Penang is an affiliated club to the HK one.

Of course , gays like you , were treated appropriately . When Somerset Maugham (  a fellow gay of whom you have not heard ) was given lunch in the Penang Club , he wrote disparagingly about his rubber planter hosts , the Penang Club’s Men’s Bar’s habitues took offence and ducked him in the Georgetown fountain.

After the fact , of course . It took at least two years to reach publication.  About as long as it takes you to read a book.

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 30 Oct 2023 15:00 | #

  “I make no claim to be an intellectual…”

Nobody said you claimed to be an intellectual. It was said you are an intellectual wannabe. It’s obvious you are not an intellectual, your poor reading comprehension proves that.

 

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 31 Oct 2023 06:44 | #

  I was claiming to be a wannabe intellectual ?

Here’s my claim : Christians trash White EGI sites like rock stars in the Ritz Carlton.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 31 Oct 2023 07:14 | #

@226

This is priceless .  40000 varieties of Semitic Supernatural tall tales and Dummy Thorn only approves of 5.

Read about the etiology of the deadly imported Jewish spiritual ailment which has no connection to our race’s psyche , and even less to that of the Jews who sensibly disposed of the fraudulent malodorous pest.

  https://illyria.proboards.com/thread/38225/christianity-revilo-oliver

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 31 Oct 2023 07:25 | #

Just when humans find a use for a Bible , the medical advice has changed :

  https://drnagarkar.com/ganglion-cysts/

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 31 Oct 2023 10:39 | #

@248

I was claiming to be a wannabe intellectual ?

Again, it was stated @243 that you are an intellectual wannabe. Can you understand that? It is obvious you are an intellectual wannabe. Anyone with common sense who reads your comments can see it.

 

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 31 Oct 2023 12:11 | #

Moreover, no matter how hard ‘Aggrieved AL’ tries to become an intelectual, he will fail. His foolishness will always stand in the way. Poor chap has all the qualities of a misfit.

Posted by Guessedworker on Thu, 02 Nov 2023 11:13 | #

Below I reproduce a comment I put up this morning on a TWC globalism thread.  It has generated very little interest from the local Christ + conservatism faith-community.  Quite aside from the awfulness of declaring Christianity deceased (at least as a force for anything politically helpful), it invited a debate of ideas.  The TCW faith-community does not want ideas.

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/globalism-and-the-woke-reinvention-of-starmers-labour/

There is a likelihood, by my estimation, of around 95% that you personally are a product of the liberal Weltanschauung. It means that liberalism’s core ideas are the core of your enworldment. Those ideas ... broadly, individual-ism and sameness ... are extrapolated from the model of the saved soul in Christianity which, in turn, is extrapolated from Judaism’s vision of the a-casual, amorphous gentile at the End Time. The problem is: that is not who you are in your self. It is not human truth.

This divide is the battle-line on which our people’s nationalism ... the politics of the 5% ... and your liberalism contest. Now, it happens that in the dictate of globalism, which is a dictate for a-causality and amorphousness, the long reign of lies has reached a totalistic scale. Even liberalism and Christianity do not possess enough flexibility to go with the flow, and are broken and dying. Only the nationalism of our people remains. But you are well-protected against it. You of the 95% have internalised all the deceptions about it, closed your mind to it, and, like sheep who know not to venture near an electric fence, will reject and avoid it if humanly possible, often repeating all the same old tropes about it.

Our nativism and ethnic nationalism is the only real and surviving alternative to globalism, and the only energy source we can tap. You will not, of course, believe this. You will want to believe in the Christian faith or in conservatism. But you can also see perfectly well that these are for all political intents and purposes dead things. How free are you to cross the divide?

Of course, in noting the disinterest of the TCW reader in ideas, one has to acknowledge the fact that very few people, really, are open enough to debate anything.  Most just want to coerce their received stuff on everybody else, and this is obviously true of TCW folk.  Not many of us think in the abstract, of course.  Fewer still think formatively in the abstract.  And very, very few think creatively in that manner.

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 02 Nov 2023 23:25 | #

Fewer still think formatively in the abstract.  And very, very few think creatively in that manner.

GW, I think you may be wrong. Why do I say that? I will point to the popularity of Rush Limbaugh. The reason he was so popular is because he had the ability to put into words what people were thinking (in the abstract). Most people are not capable of articulating in words their abstract thoughts. Rush filled that in gap. That’s why he was so successful.

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 02 Nov 2023 23:27 | #

Correctiom: filled in that gap

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 05 Nov 2023 11:19 | #

There is a likelihood, by my estimation, of around 95% that you personally are a product of the liberal Weltanschauung. It means that liberalism’s core ideas are the core of your enworldment. Those ideas ... broadly, individual-ism and sameness ... are extrapolated from the model of the saved soul in Christianity which, in turn, is extrapolated from Judaism’s vision of the a-casual, amorphous gentile at the End Time. The problem is: that is not who you are in your self. It is not human truth.

GW, accept it or not, 21st century people of European descent view and understand race and cultural differences through the lens of Boasian anthropology. Your idea that it’s Christianity, or “conservatism”, that’s the main dynamic shaping of the European mind is simply wrong. Western elites have been under Boasian’s influence for at least a century now, and you of all people should know that.

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 05 Nov 2023 23:47 | #

She is correct.

Hear what Queen Rania of Jordan said about Hamas and the ‘root cause’ of the conflict

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hear-what-queen-rania-of-jordan-said-about-hamas-and-the-root-cause-of-the-conflict/vi-AA1jqK99?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=0cbdc84c21594f97961ea0c677a44e2f&ei=5

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 07 Nov 2023 03:11 | #

#254
      Limbaugh - abstract thought ?  Limbaugh was to abstract thought what Harvard is to White Supremacism.

  Limbaugh verbalised , sans abstract thought , what the lowest common denominator class of White America failed to articulate at a time when the waves of PC had not yet reached tsunami proportions.

That being said , Limbaugh was , in Latinate terms , a Tribune.  RIP .

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 07 Nov 2023 03:26 | #

  Fortunately for Thorn , he will not be a misfit in Jew - Heaven . 

Eternity is quite a long time and , given that low IQ folk are prone to ennui , we all hope that , during the interminable duration of Thorn’s Celestial residence ( Special Penthouse for Americans for supporting Israel ) the poor sap won’t die of boredom.

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 07 Nov 2023 13:19 | #

Deranged Al writes: “Limbaugh was to abstract thought what Harvard is to White Supremacism.”

LOL!!

Now that’s rich!!

The truth is: Limbaugh’s baby toenail was more intellectually gifted than Al could ever hope to be.

But thank you for demonstrating for us - for the umpteenth time - just how strange and out of touch with reality you are.

Or as the great Maha Rushie would put it: Deranged Al is a glittering jewel of colossal ignorance.

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 07 Nov 2023 23:03 | #

Here ya go, GW.

A 2000-Year-Old Rabbinical Psyop: Did Jews Invent Christianity to Deceive Gentiles?
November 3, 2023/71 Comments/in Featured Articles/by RockaBoatus

Anyone reading White Nationalist literature is bound to come across articles hostile to Christianity. The foremost claim appears to be that Christianity itself was invented by Jews (whether by Saint Paul or some unknown rabbinical cabal) for the purpose of deceiving gentiles. Christianity was devised by Jews, then, as a way of conditioning gentiles to be sympathetic to Jews and Jewish causes and take down the Roman Empire with its radically different ethics. It was a means of influencing them from the beginning to oppose Rome, its power, and its paganism.

By portraying Christianity’s greatest hero as a humble Jewish carpenter turned Messiah, along with his Jewish apostles and, particularly, by “rabbi” Paul as its foremost theologian who shaped what Christians were to believe, gentiles would unknowingly turn out to be great proponents of all things Jewish.

Thomas Dalton expresses well this viewpoint:

The likeliest conclusion to this mess is that the Jew Paul and the anonymous Jewish gospel writers made it all up: that there was no miracle-working Son of God, no virgin birth, and no resurrection. They did so, not for fame or money, but because they believed that promulgating a pro-Jewish, anti-Roman theology would aid the Jewish cause. (Pro-Jewish, because the Christians are to worship the Jewish God, the Jewish rabbi Jesus, and the Jewish ‘virgin’ Mary; anti-Roman, because “the worldly powers” of Rome are a manifestation of Satan and must be defeated.) And in the end, it did. Judeo-Christianity flourished, ideologically defeated Rome, and then took up residence in Rome itself. (‘Jesus the Jew,’ The Occidental Observer, 5/22/2023).

This position has, essentially, been promoted over the years by such respected White racialists as the late Oliver P. Revilo and William L. Pierce. Each of these men have made great contributions to understanding the Jewish Question, and the need for Whites to pursue their own racial and cultural interests over that of the interests of outside groups. Interestingly, the greater number of White racialists in prior generations have not been nearly as antagonistic to Christianity as Oliver, Pierce, Dalton, and other pro-White advocates (e.g., George Lincoln Rockwell).

It seems to me, however, that when addressing Christianity and the problems of Jewish cultural subversion, these esteemed writers have over-reached in their criticisms. Their zeal to vanquish Christianity has not always been grounded on a true knowledge of Christian theology and history. They have often appealed to outdated liberal higher-critical arguments against Christianity’s origins (e.g., the theory of pagan derivation, including notions that the gospels were composed decades or even hundreds of years after the death of Christ) with almost no awareness of how conservative biblical scholars have rebutted such polemics. Almost all of it is an overreaction to the lunacy and slobbering obsession that far too many Christians today have of Jews and Israel. Much of it is also the result of their animosity toward Jews who have been at the forefront in orchestrating and funding Jewish organizations that promote Third-World immigration into the West. Anything connected to the Jewish people, Israel, or the Torah is viewed as fundamentally hostile to White racialism. There are no exceptions to this, and there are no “good Jews” either although some might make rare exceptions for Jews such as Gerard Menuhin, Benjamin H. Freedman, Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Ron Unz, and a few others.

Since Christianity has obvious Jewish origins — including its founder, Jesus, who was a descendant of David and of Abraham (Matthew 1:1) and who also was an observant Jew, as well as Saint Paul who claimed that he was “circumcised on the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews, as to the Law, a Pharisee” (Philippians 3:5) — it’s reasoned that no White person should be associated with Christianity because it was merely invented to fool non-Jews and to weaken every bit of European racial identity.

But is any of this true? Was Christianity ‘invented’ by Paul or by some secret faction of Jews for the express purpose of deceiving the Goyim? And when gentiles come to faith in the person of Jesus as depicted in the New Testament, is that just ‘part of the plan’? How does any of this help Jews when so much of Christianity is diametrically opposed to Talmudic Judaism?

There are a host of reasons why we should seriously question this theory. It seems to me that this entire notion appeals to those who have such a deeply entrenched animosity toward Jews that they are unable to see straight when it comes to these matters. They are so opposed to Jewish cultural subversion (rightly so) that they haven’t bothered to think carefully through their own theory that Christianity was ‘invented’ by Jews to deceive gentiles and, thereby, grant the Jewish people supremacy over the world. It may sound persuasive to some at first hearing, but without a thorough investigation of the matter, one cannot be certain of its truth.

It should be noted that the purpose of this article is not to defend Christianity as the ‘true religion’ per se. My intention, instead, is to challenge this idea of Christianity as a Jewish psyop, to show that some of the most glaring and fundamental problems with it are either never or rarely addressed by those promoting it. They have failed to think carefully through the implications of their own theory. And it isn’t long before the assiduous student runs into an array of problems when he or she tries to maintain that Christianity is just a Jewish invented trap to deceive gentiles.

Let’s consider a few of these problems. [...]

RTWT
https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2023/11/03/a-2000-year-old-rabbinical-psyop-did-jews-invent-christianity-to-deceive-gentiles/

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 08 Nov 2023 23:31 | #

As stated many times, to engage the religious mind is to agree to walk in circles until one just has to give up and walk away.  The religio will remain, because he or she cannot contest with the power of his own higher emotions.

The OO argument is very crudely thought out.  Below the line there are lots of equally crude comments deriding it.  For me, the issue is not whether Paul wrote this or Jesus said that, or whatever these guys want to say to justify their positions.  The issue is the model of human being ...  Christianity’s working model for believers.  It is also Judaism’s deracinated and atomised gentile at the End Time, as the OP here plainly states:

This is the essence of the Christian soul seeking not the good of his tribe but salvation from a great weight of sin by the grace of the Judaic G-d. This is how liberalism’s universalist dicta come down to us.

Gaining forgiveness for the “great weight of sin” stands in lieu of an authentic esoterism, which is wholly absent even from the faith-centric Christian monastic tradition.  No religion which does not teach and transmit the entirely practical, non faith-dependent process of stilling the noisy mechanicity of each of the cognitive domains of the Mind is really worthy of serious consideration.  When you strip out the element of pure faith for faith’s sake - and men can and do believe in anything - there is nothing of philosophical interest there.

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 09 Nov 2023 00:04 | #

Hey, GW, it’s very possible putting faith in the Christian Religion may be foolish (who knows for sure?); I will compromise with you on that point. But it’s even more foolish to believe that Christianity is a Jewish psyop tactic cunningly devised to deceive and control the “goyim”. Are you going to disagree with that?!?

BTW, being a Christian does not ipso facto mean you are deracinated. Your misconceived notions are not based in reality. Your false premises are getting the best of you.

Posted by Guessedworker on Thu, 09 Nov 2023 05:43 | #

We shouldn’t use terms like “psyop”.  We should not ascribe consciousness to Jews in that way.  The extent to which the Jewish Mind is aware of its own particular necessities is open to question.  From the outside it is clear enough that the Jewish ethnic struggle for a permanent supremacy (Chosenness), got by the engineering of a-causality and amorphousness in the Other, is a neurotic over-evaluation of selection for fitness.  What do Jews know of this?  They are far too consumed in the business of it to see themselves as others can see them.  Perhaps they have evolved to operate the most outrageous double-standards with zero self-awareness, so they can maintain their moral certainties in the most outrageously offensive and hypocritical ventures - you know, the ones they celebrate as demonstrations of chutzpah.

I don’t think it is at all unreasonable to see Christianity in that light, such that, for Jews, its remaking of the faithful Other in the form necessary for the End Time is very little different from the same struggle in 19th century tikkun olam, or in any of the later revolutionary forms which have gestated in Jewish intellectualism.  For Jew-aware nationalists such radical change in the being of the Other, re-casting it away from its ownmost truth and virile tribalism, needs must send brilliant flares into the sky.  There it is again, the same audacious hand, the same pushing towards nothingness which we are supposed to believe is salvation or goodness or liberation.

On Christianity’s social virtues, you are really only commending the human instinct ... evolutionary adaptiveness ... social conservatism.  Call it what you like.  Yahweh’s forgiveness is not necessary to that.

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 09 Nov 2023 12:11 | #

On Christianity’s social virtues

I’ve always regarded those virtues as a proper counter or defense against Leftism / Cultural Marxism. 

For Jew-aware nationalists such radical change in the being of the Other, re-casting it away from its ownmost truth and virile tribalism, needs must send brilliant flares into the sky.

The thing is, GW, only a tiny minority of Whites are inquisitive enough to research the subject of Jewish supremacism. Hell, even in the face of a mountain of evidence, you can’t persuade our fellow whites to acknowledge the simple fact that the Negroid race is the significantly less intelligent than the other races. They doggedly hang on to the notion that the intellectual achievement gap must be due to racial discrimination. In their ill-conditioned minds, any other explanation should and would be considered racist thus unacceptable. You see, our fellow Whites were effectively taught to be obedient little “anti-racists”. The other label they avoid like the plague is “antisemitic”. If they only knew what is written in the Talmud about the gentiles, some of the scales might drop from their eyes. Moreover, you’d think with the ongoing slaughter and ethnic cleansing of the innocent Palestinian citizens, it would awaken them to just how vengeful and murderous Jewish supremacists really are. But no, Whites are unphased. They still buy into the pro-Israel party line. Generally speaking, Whites live in their own little comfort zone, and they are not about to let any truths that go contrary to their “well-established” egalitarian belief system enter in.

People of European descent appear to be doomed. Victims of their own willful ignorance.

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 09 Nov 2023 23:54 | #

GW,

Simple question: Why do you think the White Nationalism “project” hasn’t gained traction?

Can you consider the possibility that the people who affiliate with it have repellant personalities? In your mind, have you considered that a possibility?

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 10 Nov 2023 02:09 | #

It is a good and necessary question, Thorn, and there is no doubt that the Christian wing of nationalism exhibits a moral quality absent from most other parts of the movement.  Of course, rough edges are to be expected.  We are political renegades.  Only a certain kind of people willingly take up residence in the badlands where nationalism has been cast out.

Also it must be remembered that the first several decades of our history, post the early 1930s, was wrapped up with National Socialism and Fascism.  In the States, William Pierce was the dominant voice until his death in 2002.  In Britain it was not until 2000 that the BNP began to shift into an ethnic form of nationalism, although at the time it did not know what that actually was.  Articles at PA’s website still regularly extol the heroic principle or distributism or whatever.  As far as I am aware there is nobody in the movement actually working creatively and rigorously to define and explicate ethnic nationalism (I will exclude myself in that regard).

In one sense I cannot blame our people for appearing unattractive.  Everyday we encounter from the mainstream lies, insults and threats, and the relentlessly repeated, stupid arguments justifying the gene-killing of our race, for pete’s sake.  It is too much to demand that we smile nicely and make like the good guy.  This is a fight to the death, and without a bit of steel we are going to lose it.

Posted by Nobody on Fri, 10 Nov 2023 03:50 | #

Simple question: Why do you think the White Nationalism “project” hasn’t gained traction?

A combo of these in varying quantities depending on circumstances and the time.

  Extended phenotype dominance (see bowery)
  Entryism (systematic destruction of group level resistance and all group level culture bearing institutions)
  Black propaganda (counter intelligence)
  Disruption and MIM of normal friend/foe cognition between individuals AND group layers
  No support in general pop for small % of population that normally fights
  Reputation based society - Altruism turned against us (MacDonald)

 

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 10 Nov 2023 12:09 | #

???  Daniel?  Welcome home, if it is.

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 10 Nov 2023 13:21 | #

This is a fight to the death, and without a bit of steel we are going to lose it.

I agree, GW.

We must keep plugging away as best we can. Hopefully events will break in our direction, then we can start playing offence with the confidence it takes to win. But that must happen sooner rather than later bc time is not on our side.

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 11 Nov 2023 03:50 | #

@270 Catholics such as Thorn are at the forefront of defending White EGI :    https://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/our-vision-and-ministry/immigration-refugee-services/

  Why don’t the Christians pay attention to their Jew Prophet -  ” My Kingdom is not of this world.”

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 11 Nov 2023 03:57 | #

Nobody is correct , unworthy pun intended.

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 11 Nov 2023 04:34 | #

Thorn’s co -religionists are working round the clock to assist Whites in their once hopeless quest for a country which they can call their own :

  https://www.stewardship.org.uk/blogs/six-christian-charities-helping-refugees-and-asylum-seekers

  Bless you and your fellow Church - goers , Thorn . Yours is the true divine path to White homeland security.

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 11 Nov 2023 05:14 | #

What happened to Timothy Murray ?

  Died , gone to Heaven and learned that old Satan is extremely unlikely to torture people for Eternity , simply for emulating the old Devil’s rebellious behaviour ?

Supernatural believers are an endless source of fun.

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 11 Nov 2023 05:31 | #

UK should be proud of its Christians . They will welcome , Thorn - wise , with open arms ( girls parting different limbs ) the people who will outbreed us while being financed by us.

  https://www.refugeeroots.org.uk/

This , Thorn , should warm the cockles of your heart , or , if as I suspect is the case , the heart of your cock.

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:53 | #

Yet again Deranged Al demonstrates what an ignoramus he is. His brain is so warped by mal-information that he can’t even grasp onto basic facts. (He’s your “star student”, GW. lol)

Fact: It’s Western governments that are in charge of implementing and controlling immigration policy, and those currently running most if not all Western governments are both directly and indirectly (indirectly meaning the billionaire donor-class along with the well-funded special interest groups, et al) comprised of Jews, internationalist corporatists (WEF), and secular leftists of the anti-white/“anti-racist” neo-Marxist bent. Ditto for the NGOs.

Moreover, Western governments rely heavily on secular and faux “faith based” NGOs to facilitate their open boarders’ policies. In a nutshell the NGOs (aka the immigration industrial complex) are a corrupt - mainly taxpayer funded - multi-billion-dollar business.

Biden Shovels Millions to Nonprofits to Aid His Open-Border Schemes. Congress Must Cut Off Cash Spigot.

excerpt:

[t]he Biden administration has been encouraging and mass-releasing millions of illegal aliens into the country. To accomplish its goal of unlimited illegal immigration, the administration relies heavily on NGOs to receive, process, transport, lodge, and counsel the illegal aliens.

The administration pays the NGOs billions of taxpayer dollars through numerous federal departments—including Homeland Security, Health and Human Services, State, and Justice—for this migration weaponization used against America’s interests.

These NGOs and the Left hide behind faith-based organizations to keep their federal grants flowing and to distract from the horrific results in terms of human devastation, death, sex trafficking, forced child labor, national security and public safety threats, and more. Unfortunately, the faith-based organizations are more than willing to lead the pressure campaigns to safeguard their revenue streams.

What started out decades ago as faith-based organizations supporting the State Department to resettle genuine refugees in the U.S. after a legitimate application process has evolved into mass illegal immigration and downstream activities, creating an immigration industrial complex worth billions of dollars.

Worse, those same faith-based organizations also advocate for more migration to the U.S. and against immigration enforcement. They claim they are merely helping vulnerable populations, but these NGOs clearly benefit financially from more immigration in this corrupt money-changing circle.

https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/biden-shovels-millions-nonprofits-aid-his-open-border-schemes-congress-must

 

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 15 Nov 2023 05:16 | #

What is this star student nonsense ?

I was an avowed atheist long before I had the good fortune to make GW’s online acquaintance .  The word “deranged” may be more usefully employed as a descriptor for Thorn - type dupes and suckers who believe in the preposterously tall tales of the Bible.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 15 Nov 2023 06:32 | #

I lunched with a fellow British ( English ) expat and longtime friend the other day and he , a Fulham and Greenwich houseowner and retired PWC partner , was moaning about the Third World infestation of London.

  I knew that he’d been an Oxford golf Blue and was a member of Royal Wimbledon GC and about to be ushered in to membership of Royal Blackheath GC so I offered a homily on intra - island immigration . 

When the Scottish courtiers of King James VI arrived in London , they brought golf and Freemasonry with them .  The RBGC held a celebratory dinner , doubtless with a French chef , to coincide with the 1789 French Revolution but with a different theme.  The RBGC decided to embrace Diversity , in 1789 , and allow non - Freemasons to become members.

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 17 Nov 2023 23:44 | #

@ 278

F#$king pretentious clown.

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 25 Nov 2023 03:18 | #

#279

  The actual import of the word ‘pretentious’ is an attempt to convey a false impression .

The common , mistaken understanding of that word is perceived snobbery.  Thorn is both common and mistaken and I , like many people with standards , am snobbish about them.

Difficult language English .

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 25 Nov 2023 05:03 | #

Thorn’s Vicar on Earth has received word from On High that the old Jew God has changed his Semitic mind in the matter of LBG : 

https://nypost.com/2023/11/23/news/saint-marys-college-in-notre-dame-to-consider-applicants-that-identify-as-women/

Indiana ? Not so much Hoosier but rather “Who’s here?”

Some Brit music for America’s precipitous cultural decline :    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LemG0cvc4oU

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 25 Nov 2023 23:04 | #

@281

pbfffssst

Oddball Al is just a shit sprayer. Nothing more, nothing less.

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 25 Nov 2023 23:15 | #

@281
Does Weird Al know about the concept of infiltration and subversion? Or is he just trying his best to be an obnoxious creep? Obviously, it’s the latter.

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 25 Nov 2023 23:21 | #

I want to exchange the word “tactic” instead of “concept”.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 05:27 | #

Worry not , Thorn . When you shrug off this mortal coil , may you Rest in Peace , at least till I get there.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 06:29 | #

#282

  A Shit’s Prayer ?  Jesus, on his knees , invoking Celestial assistance on bluffing peasants, when trying to tell His nitwit disciple dupes that He is actually the exact same age as His Father ?

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 06:52 | #

#283   An obtuse American Christian purports to understand the infiltration and subversion stuff.  Investigate , then , how your fatally destroyed country has been infiltrated and subverted by Jews.

  Never mind. It’s too late for that lamentation.

But, when the old Jew Jesus turns up , back on Earth , all the baddies will be killed and the good dummies , like Thorn , will live Judaically forever and it will fucking well serve them right.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 10:59 | #

Fortunately , Thorn , your Jewish deity , is an idol of no importance.

Posted by Al Ross on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 13:54 | #

Thorn , in sympathy with his Jewish Deity , decided to get circumcised.

The surgeon regretfully announced that this operation was not possible.

But why , said the Rabbi. 

Because there’s no end to this prick.

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 18:41 | #

@285

“Worry not , Thorn . When you shrug off this mortal coil , may you Rest in Peace , at least till I get there.”

When you get there? lol ... That’ll be a big let-down for ya. We don’t allow queers, such as yourself, entrance, thus no worries on my part.

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 30 Nov 2023 00:35 | #

Good commentary:
A Crash Course on the True Causes of “Anti-Semitism”

https://www.unz.com/tsaker/a-crash-course-on-the-true-causes-of-anti-semitism/

Posted by Al Ross on Mon, 04 Dec 2023 06:16 | #

Queers not allowed in Heaven eh ?  Well , old Pope Whatsit just expelled five Cardinals because they insisted the avoidance of publicising the time - honoured, homo behaviour of the RC Church .

Homosexuality could well have been invented for RC clergy. 

An RC who respects his clergy while opposing homosexuality is like a Jew protesting interest rates.

Posted by Al Ross on Mon, 04 Dec 2023 06:25 | #

#290
  I like the plural . Thorn and his Celestial peer, St Peter, making a joint decision and arriving , reluctantly, at the Predestined ( I am a long lapsed Presbyterian and Elect member ) conclusion.

I am going to Heaven although I don’t believe a word of Jewish nonsense.  A bit like a billionaire being a Socialist.

Posted by Al Ross on Mon, 04 Dec 2023 08:24 | #

# 291

Thorn is going through the male menopause and his husband is sympathetic :

Sorry, Judge for my gay hubbie, Thorn’s, theft from the nearest Dollar Store store at which we could barely afford to shop.

Judge : ” What was the item in question again ?”

Court Clerk :  : ” One tin of sliced peaches , your Honour.”

Judge : ” How many slices ?”

CC : ” Six , your Honour”

judge : “Very well , one month’s jail for each slice.”

Thorn’s Gay Spouse :  ” Also two tins of peas, your Honour.”.

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 05 Dec 2023 17:30 | #

But ... but ... but ... ‘they’ say Christianity is so anti-nationalistic!!! How wrong ‘they’ are.

EXCLUSIVE: Cardinal Müller says mass migration is being used to destroy national identities

Cardinal Gerhard Müller has said that “self-appointed” globalists are using mass migration to destroy the national identity of countries. 

In an exclusive interview with LifeSiteNews, Müller talked about the ideologies behind globalism and their dire consequences.

“Mass immigration is not about helping people but about destroying national identity,” Müller said. “They say that national identity is nationalism, which has caused all the wars, so they say they are against nationalism, but they are really against the nation.”

“If nationalism is the reason for wars, we must ask who is financing the wars and what interests are behind it.”

“They want everyone to be completely isolated and not connected by language, culture, family ties, or a native land where you feel at home,” Müller continued.

“They want to destroy all that. They want everyone to be atomized, without cultural and religious roots and identity,” he concluded.

Müller also believes the elites are committing a “genocide” by promoting abortion and euthanasia.

The German cardinal said many globalists believe that there are “too many” people on Earth who are causing “climate damage.”

To fight this supposed “overpopulation,” these powerful elites are using abortion and euthanasia as part of an “extermination program,” Müller told LifeSiteNews.

“And at the same time, anyone who criticizes this is called a Nazi by those who themselves promote the murderous Nazi ideology of ‘might makes right’… The genocide that is now being carried out is protected through propaganda by equating its critics with the people who committed the genocide in the past,” the cardinal added.

“The perversion of their logic is to portray the victims as the perpetrators. What is the depopulation program other than a plan of reducing people through violence?”

Müller explained that the “Nazi” accusation is often used as an “instrument of power” to suppress dissent.

“They [the globalists] don’t care that suicide rates among young people are growing worldwide. It’s just right for them.”

This low regard for human life comes from the philosophical position of materialism that the globalists subscribe to, Müller told LifeSiteNews. According to the materialists, “human beings are just matter, just a mass of people that can be manipulated,” he explained.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/exclusive-cardinal-muller-says-mass-migration-is-being-used-to-destroy-national-identities/?utm_source=daily-catholic-2023-12-05&fbclid=IwAR28tzUgznzawaTO3rvvUQBczkkslUmqKHkRw5Wb3629U6YGSPwi55I38Mg