Posted by Lurker on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 02:43 | #

The irony is that its often not the resentful sons of the poor who enact these policies. Maybe sometimes the grandsons of the poor. Its the self-hating middle class kids.

Posted by Al Ross on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 04:08 | #

The English lose yet again because of the little people Nietzsche called tarantulas, in this case a Cypriot married to a Welsh woman.

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:40 | #

If Adonis’ hatred is sufficient to make bussing actually function, rather than just being a cathartic moment for him, the English middle-class will increasingly bite the bullet and privately educate or home-school.

Of course, Blair-babe and “Chair” (poor soul) of the Charity Commission, Dame Suzi Leather has already signalled that the former must be made harder to afford.

Posted by Retew on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:54 | #

Not everything in politics comes down to hatred. I think there are more altruistic reasons for the proposal, it is believed that it would have a beneficial effect on the whole education system.

Johann Hari outlines the case here;

http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=826

BTW, Adonis is no fool, he knows that to “wipe the smile off smug middle class faces” would be political suicide for Labour, which is facing a serious challenge from Cameron’s Conservatives at the next election.

GW, since you oppose this proposal what solutions do you offer instead for schools in deprived white areas, as there are in this part of the world (Plymouth in particular)? I think we’re all agreed that schools in prosperous areas will do well.

Posted by Kenelm Digby on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:59 | #

As the joke goes heis definitely more ‘Andrew’ than ‘Adonis’!

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:37 | #

Retew,

How would you feel about a half-million West Africans being moved into Jeruslam, Tel Aviv, Haifa, Be’er Sheva and Ashqelon?  Sound good to you?  What if Palestinian-Isrealis support it, and erect a moral argument based on altruism.  Still OK?  What if the Jewish government agrees with the Palestinians and passes laws to ban Jewish opposition and imprison its leaders?  Still good, is it?

Let me answer your point another way.  Negros are not my people.  I owe them nothing, just as you owe them nothing.  You and I feel no altruism towards them whatsoever, so let’s not pretend otherwise.  Like you, I have love only for my own.

My solution to the problem of black educational failure is to fund educational development in Jamaica and give aid to agreed Jamaican economic programmes.

Posted by Question on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:38 | #

“Not everything in politics comes down to hatred.”

When the effects of the proposed political changes negatively influence white people, as they usually do, it is not always wrong to consider hatred as a motive.

“I think there are more altruistic reasons for the proposal, it is believed that it would have a beneficial effect on the whole education system.”

Those who live in America can make the case that bussing and integration helped destroy the educational system.  It certainly destroyed many American cities as it accelerated “white flight.”

“Johann Hari outlines the case here;

http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=826”

Hari (origin of surname) makes the case that the more “well off” students and their families can be like “yeast” helping the others to rise.  Of course, one can consider the ultimate fate of yeast during the baking process.  Why isn’t anyone concerned about the interests of the middle classes?

“BTW, Adonis is no fool, he knows that to “wipe the smile off smug middle class faces” would be political suicide for Labour, which is facing a serious challenge from Cameron’s Conservatives at the next election.”

Since the two sides are about as “different” as are the Democrats and Republicans in the USA, O wonder how “serious” the challenge will be.

“GW, since you oppose this proposal what solutions do you offer instead for schools in deprived white areas, as there are in this part of the world (Plymouth in particular)? I think we’re all agreed that schools in prosperous areas will do well.”

The best thing for “deprived white areas” is racial separation, hopefully repatriation, which will allow resources for the needy to be focused on the indigenous population, as well, it would allow for solutions to the problem to occur without the complications of race.  The real, and major opposition to bussing, at least in America (GW can tell is if the same applies to the UK) focuses on race, not class.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 22:01 | #

Until the end of the 11-plus exam, about 50 years ago, the British academic and physical education system was one of the best in the world. Channel 4 did a programme that took today’s A-level achievers back to the 1950s where they performed atrociously. Of interest also, was the physical education regime. The old footage showed a decided absence of fat children. The end of streaming in British education, correlates with the dumbing down of British society.

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/T/teachem/yandt.html

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 22:39 | #

Fred,

Retew is indeed Jewish and not particularly convinced of the biological basis for racial difference.  He is also a patient if sometimes stubborn interlocutor and is perfectly welcome by me.

To our questioning friend ...

In England the bussing experiment has not yet begun.  But it is only one of the methods being employed to force the underclass into middle-class lives.  In white areas the opposition to it will be based mostly on class.  But only in white areas.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:07 | #

“Fred,

Retew is indeed Jewish and not particularly convinced of the biological basis for racial difference.  He is also a patient if sometimes stubborn interlocutor and is perfectly welcome by me.”  (—GW)

I’m glad he visits and I eagerly await his reply to the question GW posed.  The reason I haven’t got a feel for what his background and positions are is simply my own attendance here has been spotty the past couple of months so there are holes in what I’ve managed to keep up with.  I know Retew’s been stopping by and posting because I’ve seen his name a fair amount but I haven’t actually read his stuff enough to see how he thinks.

Posted by Question on Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:17 | #

“Retew is indeed Jewish…”

Amazing.  I should have guessed. 

“...and is perfectly welcome by me.”

I have to give GW credit for patience.

“...but I haven’t actually read his stuff enough to see how he thinks.”

Thinks?  Is that what he’s been doing?

“I’m glad he visits and I eagerly await his reply to the question GW posed.”

What difference what he answers?  Do you know if he’s sincere, and what’s the point of asking something that’s not going to happen?  It’s like the Asians at gnxp saying “I wouldn’t care if China or India opened up the gates to large scale alien immigration”...they KNOW it is not going to happen, so what does it cost them to pretend they wouldn’t care if it did happen?

It’s not like they are actually working to open up Asian countries to replacement immigration.

Talk is cheap.

” But only in white areas. “

Who is going to oppose it for racial reasons?  Certainly not the blacks.  The only thing I can think of is that “British” Asians will oppose integration with blacks, the same way that “American” East Asians in places like California have strenuously protested against school integration when it meant sticking their own children with Negroes.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:06 | #

“It’s like the Asians at gnxp saying ‘I wouldn’t care if China or India opened up the gates to large-scale alien immigration’ ...they KNOW it is not going to happen, so what does it cost them to pretend they wouldn’t care if it did happen?”  (—Question)

Of course they can pretend all they want:  we saw how they reacted when they got just an infinitessimal taste of what we’re going through ... Their reaction certainly taught their politicians a lesson and woe betide the government that tries to put them through that again.  And that was just Negro students bedding Chinese women in their dorm rooms, for crying out loud!  If that were all we had to worry about we’d think we’d died and gone to heaven ...  So, let the Oriental GnXpers pretend away ... We know better ...

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:11 | #

And as for the Subcons, I notice Aish ended up not making that movie where she was to play the love interest opposite Will Smith ...

Right, didn’t expect she would ... you’d have seen Hindu anti-Negro riots from Calcutta to Pondicherry ...

Posted by Retew on Wed, 28 Mar 2007 00:06 | #

Guessed Worker (thanks for your kind words btw) wrote;

“Retew,

How would you feel about a half-million West Africans being moved into Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Haifa, Bea-er Sheva and Ashqelon?  Sound good to you?

What if Palestinian-Israelis support it, and erect a moral argument based on altruism. Still OK?  What if the Jewish government agrees with the Palestinians and passes laws to ban Jewish opposition and imprison its leaders?  Still good, is it?”

I’m not Jewish btw, though I’ve enjoyed people here thinking I’m part of a people I for the most part like and respect. I’m a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant with perhaps a bit of Celt mixed in.

Here’s my view (bearing in mind that West Africans can be very productive people as witness the *Ibdo of Nigeria, who should have had their own state in the 1960s btw).

If they were Jews it wouldn’t be a problem, people of any race can convert to Judaism and do. The point of Israel’s existence is to provide a safe haven for a people (and let’s not go into why at this stage) who are uniquely subject to persecution and, in particular,
at one time the last century saw their numbers worldwide reduced by a third in the space of four years or so. It therefore makes sense that they should wish to prevent themselves from ever again being placed in a position where they could suffer such a fate.

If the blacks were Christians, well maybe, but if they were Muslims (bearing in mind that southern Nigeria, for example, is largely Christian and Yoruba whilst the north is predominantly Muslim) then it would be a problem, bearing in mind the proneness of Muslims at the present time to hate Jews.

I woud never support the outlawing, banning and imprisonment of peaceful opposition.

“Let me answer your point another way. Negros are not my people. I owe them nothing, just as you owe them nothing. You and I feel no altruism towards them whatsoever, so let’s not pretend otherwise. Like you, I have love only for my own.”

Don’t speak for me please GW, you don’t know what I think and feel. I do feel altruism towards people of other races, else I wouldn’t be on my side of this argument. In any case, I’ve known too many of my own race who to be blunt wouldn’t piss on me if I was on fire to have any illusions about racial solidarity. 

To take one example, I was disgusted by the American and British government’s treatment of the native citizens of Diego Garcia, who in the 1960s found themselves evicted from their home to make way for a US naval base on that island. A bit different from what we did (quite rightly) when the Argentinians invaded the Falklands in the 1980s.

“My solution to the problem of black educational failure is to fund educational development in Jamaica and give aid to agreed Jamaican economic programmes.”

Why Jamaica? I was talking about white educational failure, which exists and is also a problem.

I deliberately didn’t mention race because I wanted the discussion to be about the underclass in general, not the black underclass in particular. We’ve always been excellent in the UK at educating bright middle class youngsters, but our record with less able ones is among the worst in Europe. We ought to ask ourselves why that is.

* Have a look at Freddie Forsyth’s account of the Biafran war for a description of how they lifted themselves out of poverty in the 1960s before the war happened.

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 28 Mar 2007 00:28 | #

Retew,

If you are not Jewish you do a splendid job of work as an extended phenotype.  Anyway, I apologise for the (mis)classification.  Now I am no longer in error I need to fill in the details properly.

How would you classify your politics?  What is you personal ultimate interest, ie what do you put in place of the normative lodestar of ethnic interest?

Also:-

Does race exist?
If it exists, does it matter?
If it exists but doesn’t matter do you have any non-white familial connections that might skew your judgement?  (You see how personal we can get here!)

On the murder capital of the West Indies, whether the educational failure is that of blacks or the white underclass, the solution is the same: repatriate blacks and re-patriate whites.  The alternative is our slow and graceless erasure.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 28 Mar 2007 04:36 | #

Thanks for replying, Retew.  Had you been Jewish I’d be questioning you more closely.  Since you’re not, you’re off the hook.  But your answer was very interesting.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 28 Mar 2007 04:37 | #

(Oh, and how about answering the new set of questions put by GW?)

Posted by Lurker (Mk II) on Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:33 | #

Fred—It was “Debbie Does Dallas”.

Posted by Afrocentric Pride! on Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:38 | #

I agree with Retew; persons of West African ancestry can be remarkably productive.  An example from the UK:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=443283&in_page_id=1770

Those readers who live in America, particularly those with “big city” experience, need not be told about the productive and altruistic activities of persons of West African descent.

Those famiiar with Africa itself need not be informed about the civil society, remarkable productivity, law abiding behaviors, and lack of superstitions - and embrace of modern science and society - of the great African peoples.

Never mind their IQ scores.