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Nitromethane for the SIBOS Steve Sailer, fearless as usual, has pointed the way for Muslim repatriation in Europe. His latest thoughts follow on his VDare article of November 6 and Peter Brimelow’s ponderings of three days earlier. Steve proposes a carrot and stick arrangement to produce a wholesale Muslim exodus. He would “deport lawbreakers, cut transfer-payment subsidies and lengthen prison terms to push the destructive Muslims with legal residency back to their ancestral homelands.” Supplementing this would be “buy-out offers paying $25,000 (or more, if necessary) to pull the Muslims out.” I think this notion has to be floated at some stage - and now, at the close of a fateful year for race relations in Europe, is as good a time as any. Here, then, are a few off-the-cuff observations about Steve’s suggestion. First, let us acknowledge the mountain which proponents of repatriation must climb. Industry, the entire liberal establishment, the EU, the human rights and minority-race lobbies, Christian and Muslim leaders and the Muslim governments of recipient countries would all blow every last goddamned fuse in the box. Furthermore, let us not forget that the non-European repopulation of Europe has been long in the making. It has an inertia built of decades that must be overcome. It has been fitted with a (false) moral framework posited on white guilt and racism. It has (false) practical arguments as well as (false) moral ones, like pension provision and industrial competitiveness. It is “inevitable”. Then there are the many delights of the West which our Muslim friends enjoy here, and which they will fight to hold on to. Only here do they have a chance to live in a modern, free society, to have a half-decent job, half-decent healthcare and education, a welfare state ... On top of all this, for the Caliphate-mongers amongst them there is the eternal joy of occupying the infidel’s land at the infidel’s expense, and all in the service of Allah. So the Sailer Immigrant Buy-Out Scheme would be a very, very difficult sale. What is more, to make it even remotely workable some serious compulsion would have to be bolted on. Including unstunned animal slaughter within the definitions of cruelty would be a start ... likewise extending the ban on female genital mutilation to males. Polygamy laws could be applied and, little by little, the general social, educational and familial legal culture in Europe rendered inhospitably Western to Muslims. To some degree such things go with the liberal flow anyway. But beyond this, European countries pursuing the SIBOS would have to leave the EU and rescind the European Convention on Human Rights from domestic law. Then they could really juice things up, recasting nationality on the same racially non-inclusive basis as non-Western nations, offering only short-term passports to non-Europeans and cancelling all EU passports. These are hard things to set about doing, with sweeping consequences for perfectly law-abiding people. But this would not be a gentle business, a point with which Steve seems not to want to trouble himself. On the carrot side of the equation, the buy-out offer would need to slowly reduce with time. That would help to concentrate minds. Furthermore, full asset value “repatriation” would be allowed for, say, the first two years of the scheme. But after that rising capital gains penalties would begin to bite on asset sales. At the end of perhaps five years, if no action is forthcoming on going home, the recalcitrant would come up against the backstop of compulsory state purchase of assets. Overall, the objective would be to develop a humane and expeditious way to return Europe to its own people. That is the only way in which this is worth doing. But it may take a few years and several Sailer articles yet before the subject can be discussed in polite society. The thing is, it is better to be discussing that than another Madrid, 7/7, Paris, or worse. Comments:2
Posted by Tournament of Champions on Tue, 29 Nov 2005 07:50 | # Sound demographic rennovation programs are easily dreamt up; the challenge is attaining power… 3
Posted by Johan Van Vlaams on Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:58 | # Restraint should also be exercised upon the real cause of all evils: their so-called Islam religion. For instance no mosques in the city should be allowed. 4
Posted by friedrich braun on Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:01 | # Another brilliant piece by Taylor that connects with the subject matter of this post.
... http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/11/worse_than_the_riots_themselve.php 5
Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:56 | # Thanks for the link, Friedrich. Interesting thread, too, for Amren. 6
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:41 | # The twofold remedy Steve names, moratorium plus humane, financially-compensated repatriation, is the cure for the West’s current demographic crisis and the only cure short of whatever might be accomplished through armed violence if that ever tragically erupted. This cure is more important than Iraq or any war right now, more important than any governmental undertaking or public policy, and probably more important than any previous war or governmental policy in the West in the past two thousand years. Under Giscard during the 70s the French government actually had in place a financially-compensated repatriation program for North African Moslems, let us not forget! It didn’t attract many takers and after a few years fizzled out, but clearly the program could’ve been mended and gotten to work by simply increasing the amount of compensation offered (plus, as Johan Van Vlaams alludes to in his comment and as Lawrence Auster has strongly recommended, ending the Western multiculti pretense of a Moslem-friendly, welcoming atmosphere and set-up here, a charade forced on ordinary folk by the usual suspects, the termination of which would send the Moslems scurrying back to their countries in a widespread mass-movement of self-repatriation with or without compensation: Johan is completely right—large numbers of mosques should not be permitted in European cities, to take one example). There is no doubt in my mind that French Big Business & Industry exerted behind-the-scenes pressure to keep the bureaucrats from patching up Giscard’s program and making it successful, because they didn’t want to lose the promise of an unending supply of cheap labor. That program could’ve worked and spared France the current nightmare situation it must endure in Paris (not to mention the unthinkably horrible spectre of permanent loss of French national identity through extreme demographic change). Steve’s idea has to be talked about. It will gain acceptance. How many were the ideas thought unmentionable at first which are now become society’s unquestioned assumptions? From “impossible,” or “unworkable,” or “repugnant,” or “ain’t gonna happen” (all the things John Ray would say against it, in other words) this idea will gain ground more and more until finally it is implemented and implemented seriously, not half-heartedly—if not first in the U.S. then certainly in some European country, first one country there, then others—and people will breathe a collective sigh of relief, wondering what all the fuss was about after all, and resolving (one hopes) never again to let that particular problem threaten Europe. You’re looking at the cure in those two words: moratorium and repatriation. The problem cannot be solved without the second half of that formula: it will not be solved with moratorium alone, without repatriation! Steve Sailer is brilliant, that’s all there is to it. But more important than that, he’s right! 7
Posted by Pericles on Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:46 | # GW, Your line “There is no doubt in my mind that French Big Business & Industry exerted behind-the-scenes pressure to keep the bureaucrats from patching up Giscard’s program and making it successful, because they didn’t want to lose the promise of an unending supply of cheap labor. ” A bit of a miscalculation by the French, do you think? Far too many sons and grandsons of that first tranche of North African immigrants seem to be permanently out of work, because they do not have the necessary skills. However, we should not gloat in the U.K. with 1.6 million Muslims and growing. See Ethnic Segregation in the U.K.2, DavidB’s comment in Gene Expression on Ludi Simpson research. Last line “So the prospect of increasing concentrations of discontented, idle, Muslim youths, a la Francaise, cannot yet be entirely discounted.” The comments page about DavidB’ article has some interesting observations. Pericles 8
Posted by Steve Edwards on Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:40 | # Do read this nauseating article, when you get the chance: Worse than Caligula. 9
Posted by Lurker on Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:51 | # Spoke to an Irish friend recently who was happily recounting the spectacle of the new multi-ethnic Dublin. I was tempted (but decided not to) make a sarcastic comment about how relieved I was to hear that all the generations of British/Irish conflict were all just a silly misunderstanding. Turns out all we (the British) needed to do was black up, or pretend to be Chinese, or muslim and we would have had the willing, nay enthusiastic, permission of the Irish people to extinguish their entire nation/history/culture in a single generation. Amazing. 10
Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:21 | # Eloquently said. Sinn Fein appear to support the browning of Ireland. So much for Us Alone. Was it all just hatred of the British? 11
Posted by Desond Jones on Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:02 | # Turns out all we (the British) needed to do was black up, or pretend to be Chinese, or muslim and we would have had the willing, nay enthusiastic, permission of the Irish people to extinguish their entire nation/history/culture in a single generation. Why would you want to? As long as England endures, who cares what Ireland does. Apparently the Germans used a repatriation programme with some success. “In 1983, the Kohl Government passed the so-called Voluntary Repatriation Encouragement Act. This law offered migrants financial incentives to return home. By mid-1984, approximately 250,000 foreigners – most of them Turks – had left the Federal Republic. The act allowed repatriation grants of up to 10,500 Marks per adult and 1,500 Marks per child.” 12
Posted by The other guy on Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:52 | # Hello, Lurker, Guesedworker, C’mon now. The darker races coming to Ireland are not part of a military invasion that was land theft. I grant you, trouble is probably coming down the pike and I would not support what is happening if I were Irish. Lurker is a jerk whose comments I’ve read elsewhere. I thought Guessedworker had better sense. If you take lurker’s analysis further, you could say: Turns out all the Germans needed to do was black up, or pretend to be Chinese, or muslim and we would have had the willing, nay enthusiastic, permission of the English people to extinguish their entire nation/history/culture in a few generations. After all, the brits have had a lot more experience giving up their country to the immigrant. 13
Posted by ben tillman on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 00:28 | # C’mon now. The darker races coming to Ireland are not part of a military invasion that was land theft. No, they’re part of a non-military invasion that is land theft. A military invasion is worse than a non-military invasion only becuase the military invaders are armed. But that distinction disappears if there is no resistance to the invasion. 14
Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 00:33 | # Tog, Are you American? Your assumptions of English wrongdoing in Ireland are very characteristic of the American understanding of “the Irish Question”. By and large they are a product of the strength of argument coming from the Catholic Irish side. Lurker and I, of course, were speaking of Irish nationalism from a specifically English perspective, to wit the many years of murders of Scots-Irish and English people was an act of the deepest racial hatred. By my reckoning it does not do to justify the murderous 1970’s, for example, with historiography flowing from the 1690’s, though it is done with depressing regularity. It is something we should all rise above, or the violence of hate - an illegitimate thing - will dress up and parade itself as the violence of politics denied. 15
Posted by VB on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 01:12 | # From my understanding nearly all of the immigrants to Ireland are from the Baltics (Estonia, Lativa, Lithuania, Poland)... Not terribly tragic if you ask me… Am I mistaken? 16
Posted by john fitzgerald on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 01:31 | # How about looking at some repatriation/removal scemes that have worked. Idi Amins policy was succesful as is the Zimbabwegovernments. Israels policy has also been very successfull, but possibly too brutal for most people to accept. Libya removed thousands seemingly without much problem. So is giving money really nessesary? Why should tax payers pay for others mistakes? 17
Posted by Matra on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 01:32 | # Guessedworker - “Sinn Fein appear to support the browning of Ireland. So much for Us Alone. Was it all just hatred of the British?” Sinn Fein/IRA have always tried to be fashionably left wing so their multiculturalism isn’t that surprising. The working class Catholics who vote Sinn Fein are nowhere near as enthusiastic about Third World immigrants as their political leaders. But like in America where blacks may not like the new immigrants their resentment for the old enemy - the British/white America - is what really gets their juices flowing. Guessedworker - ” Your assumptions of English wrongdoing in Ireland are very characteristic of the American understanding of “the Irish Question”. Funny thing is even Sinn Fein voters in Ireland laugh at and ridicule “Irish” American nationalists/republicans. The gullible and oafish “plastic Paddy” is the butt of jokes throughout Ireland. 18
Posted by Matra on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 01:45 | # “From my understanding nearly all of the immigrants to Ireland are from the Baltics (Estonia, Lativa, Lithuania, Poland)... Not terribly tragic if you ask me… Am I mistaken?” True, but there are many non-whites arriving too. Nigerians seem particularly common in Dublin. In Ulster, where the only non-whites seen until recently were from the small Chinese community, there are now many blacks and browns showing up. 19
Posted by Lurker on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 02:57 | # ToG has read my comments (which ones?)elsewhere and Im a jerk. Hurrah, celebrity at last! Can sell my story to the tabloids? Im sure there are eastern Europeans in Ireland, Poles especially - theyre good guys and Im pretty sure no-one has a beef about them. But having observed Dublin with my all too fallible Mk1 human eyeball I can vouch for the presence of many others and they aint from anywhere in Europe. My liberal Irish friends will, I suspect, happily conflate problematic non-euros with, for example, Poles and call them all immigrants and hope no-one notices the join. 20
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 06:04 | # “How about looking at some repatriation/removal scemes that have worked. Idi Amin’s policy was succesful, as is the Zimbabwe government’s. Israel’s policy has also been very successful, but possibly too brutal for most people to accept. Libya removed thousands seemingly without much problem. So is giving money really nessesary? Why should tax payers pay for others mistakes?” (—John Fitzgerald) We should talk about all those as well, John Fitzgerald. They can and should all be discussed, starting right now and may the best approach to solving the problem emerge from what discussions take place in the coming years. The point is, don’t anyone be shy: we’re not shutting up any more, or tip-toeing around any more for fear of giving offense. The ones who’ve been offended are us—no one else! It’s high time all of us started talking openly and forthrightly about exactly what we want and exactly what our options are for getting it. The other side did precisely that forty years ago then set to work, and look where we are today: teetering on the brink of extinction and who would’ve believed it? Nobody! Well, now it’s our turn: two can play that game. The other side aren’t the only ones who can play. The days are over when all we talk about is how to accommodate ourselves least painfully to the advances of the other side’s agenda, swallowing what we can’t stop, learning to love what we can’t change, fleeing what we can’t undo. The other side are men, not supermen. We’re going to begin stopping, changing, and undoing and they can put that in their “multiculti/diversity/immigration” pipe and smoke it. We’re not willing to compromise on certain things, race-replacement being one of them. Race-replacement’s a non-starter, something non-negotiable. It’s off the table. Period. Full stop. End of story. So, let’s start hearing the alternatives. To the extent race-replacement has already been begun behind our backs we’re going to reverse it. We’ll never accept it. We’re after restoring the status quo ante. How DARE the other side pull that race-replacement stunt behind our backs, without holding so much as a clearly-worded referendum! How DARE they try to change our racial patrimony of forty thousand years’ standing, hell, sixty thousand, eighty thousand years’ standing, to something utterly alien to us, from Africa, China, or Mexico? Do they think they’re going to get away with it? They calculate that if they hurry, they’ll win long before the transformation is actually complete, by placing us before the partially-completed fait accompli which we won’t have the nerve to try to reverse. But the other side’s non-stop brazen outrages have ginned up our nerve quite nicely indeed, thank you, and we’re not about to let the game continue to be played their way. By openly declaring as much, declaring we aren’t about to accept the status quo but will require the non-negotiable restoration of the status quo ante, we further encourage ourselves to not lose heart but toil until we prevail because we know we’re fighting for the most worthwhile cause, we encourage our friends and allies to join us rather than seek compromise—and for the same reason, and we discourage our enemies who until now have had no reason to add our resolve to their calculations, they who thought the game was over thanks to their clever little trick—they’ll now have to reckon with the fact that our side’s just now getting suited up! So yes, John Fitzgerald, let our side start discussing all those ways of doing it, and more, as many as we can think of, because one of them is going to be what finally gets us out of this mess, leaving the other side gnashing its teeth and tearing its hair. “True, but there are many non-whites arriving too. Nigerians seem particularly common in Dublin. In Ulster, where the only non-whites seen until recently were from the small Chinese community, there are now many blacks and browns showing up.” (—Matra) Every last one of these groups of racial incompatibles in Ireland, who have no business being there in significant numbers, should be humanely sent packing back where they came from. Certainly, the instant any of them applies for welfare this should be done—and in my opinion it should be done anyway, welfare or not. As for the Sinn Fein, they’ve proven what swine they are by supporting race-replacement for Ireland. 21
Posted by The other guy on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:10 | # “Lurker and I, of course, were speaking of Irish nationalism from a specifically English perspective, to wit the many years of murders of Scots-Irish and English people was an act of the deepest racial hatred.: Yeah, the Brits came over and just were nice friendly folk, never harmed anyone, never stacked the deck in their favor. The Brit perspective isclownish. 22
Posted by Lurker on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:30 | # ToG - You’re not really addressing the question here are you old chap. 23
Posted by The other guy on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:58 | # —“All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.”—Enoch Powell 25
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:11 | # We’ve all seen this great de Gaulle quote but it doesn’t hurt to be reminded of it once more: ”<u>It is very good</u> that there be yellow Frenchmen, black Frenchmen, brown Frenchmen. They prove that France is open to all races and that she has a universal mission. But on the condition that they remain a small minority. Otherwise, France would no longer be France. We are after all primarily a European people of the white race, of Greek and Latin culture, and of the Christian faith. Try to mix oil and vinegar. Shake the bottle. In a moment they will separate again. Arabs are Arabs and French are French. Do you believe that the French nation can absorb ten million Muslims, who perhaps tomorrow will be twenty million and the day after forty million? If we adopt integration, if all the Arabs and Berbers of Algeria were considered as Frenchmen, what would prevent them from coming to settle in mainland France where the standard of living is so much higher? My village would no longer be called Colombey-les-Deux-Eglises, but Colombey-les-deux-Mosquées!” Incidentally, someone here mentioned that Helmut Kohl’s government in the early 80s had a financially-compensated repatriation program in effect for Turks in Germany (something I hadn’t known) which some two hundred and fifty thousand Turks took advantage of, returning to their home country with a bundle of cash in their pocket. When I read that I said to myself, two hundred thousand is the number of Turks currently living in Berlin—imagine if they ginned up that program again even half-heartedly, and through it were able to restore once again to the great city of Berlin a German population! That would not only be wonderful in itself but a stunning example for other European countries. So, it’s doable: the solution lies right here within reach, right at our fingertips if only we’d wake up in time and apply it. With financially-compensated repatriation everyone’s happy, because an offer has been put forth, has found willing takers, and a deal has been struck freely. Only race-replacers would see a problem with that. I’ll just throw in that someone else commented (here or a different thread) about what a certain Jewish Belgian legislator said about Filip Dewinter, calling him a racist and so on. The proper way to respond to Jews who do that is to call for the opening of Israel’s borders to Palestinians, Arabs, and all Moslems and see how they react. Lots of Jews apparently have no idea how obnoxious they’re being with their unbelievably nauseating and outrageous double-standard. Well, they need to be told and told often how sickeningly obnoxious they’re being, right to their face, because these Jews’ mothers apparently never taught them manners. They’re disgusting and are showing Jews in the worst possible light: hypocrites, Christian haters, nation-destroyers. They are unacceptable. 26
Posted by The other guy on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:55 | # Actually, I had never seen the DeGaulle quote until yesterday on The Ambler site. Forgive me if I suspect that is where Scroob saw it. Rather bad form not to have given a nod to Mr. Grace. Also a bit of an insult to all of the rest of you in that he did not think you smart enough to read such a good site. “The proper way to respond to Jews” Does anyone believe Scroob has responded to any Jew other than anonymously on the web/ 27
Posted by Lurker on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:31 | # I see, so it says “the other guy” on your birth certificate does it? 28
Posted by The other guy on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:46 | # “I see, so it says “the other guy” on your birth certificate does it?” I am not claiming to be the brave boy Scroob and Lurker are. Scroob’s posts imply he is on the frontline. Maybe the Belgian Jewish solon was vicious and low in his remarks, but, at least he made them publicly. I am okay with anonymous posting (as is Mr. Lurker). I just hope no one here believes that posting screed and signing it Scroob or Lurker or Guessedworker or the other guy is actually doing something. 29
Posted by Matra on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:11 | # Troll Guy - Actually, I had never seen the DeGaulle quote until yesterday on The Ambler site. Forgive me if I suspect that is where Scroob saw it Gee…how did you come to suspect it came from The Ambler? Doh! Maybe it was the link Fred provided to his website!!! Rather bad form not to have given a nod to Mr. Grace. And so I guess it was bad form of Mr Grace to not give a nod to Lawrence Auster. Or maybe Grace, like Fred, assumed his readers would click the link if they wanted to know where it came from! 30
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:36 | # Matra, thanks for pointing out that I did link the de Gaulle quote to The Ambler (one of my favorite sites, by the way). The Other Guy, why don’t you stop the Mr. Perpetual Sullen act and start actually saying what your own ideas are. You’re boring me and, I suspect, everyone. People care about ideas here, not about your wounded pride. I take you for an American Irish Catholic, incidentally. Are you one? 31
Posted by The other guy on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:40 | # Well Scrooby, who the hell are you? You are the one who poses as some racial warrior. Come on, let us know what your background is. 32
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 23:08 | # “Well Scrooby, who the hell are you? [...] Come on, let us know what your background is.” (—The Other Guy) People here already know it: American white Catholic from New York City, now in Vermont. OK, your turn. Are we going to get some ideas out of you now, some actual contributions, or just more of your sullen sniping? If you have something to say, say it. You’ve had about fifteen chances so far and wasted every one. You keep coming across as a sniveler who who resents not getting the appreciation he feels he deserves or something like that. Please, grow up or shut up. 33
Posted by The other guy on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 01:38 | # If you remember, on another thread I told you my background and gave you some of my views. You answered with nothing except an opinion that I was a Massachuseets Irish Catholic and another ad hominem. So look it up. For someone who finds me boring, you have quite an interest in where I stand. I pass through White River Junction a couple of times a year. Maybe I’ll stop by so your militia unit can take a shot at me. 34
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 02:03 | # “I pass through White River Junction a couple of times a year. Maybe I’ll stop by so your militia unit can take a shot at me.” (—The Other Guy) Thanks for the heads-up and I’ll be sure to let the militia know, next time you give so much as the slightest impression of being someone they ought to travel down to White River to take any notice of. So far I’ve seen no sign of anything remotely approaching that. Now, I’ll thank you to stop stalking me for purposes of venting your spleen or whatever it is you’re doing. If you come up with something to actually say, on the other hand, I’ll listen with interest. You see, ideas, not egos, are the name of the game here. 35
Posted by The other guy on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 02:59 | # “You see, ideas, not egos, are the name of the game here.” I’m waiting to see you actually have an important and original idea. You remind me of Doctor Johnson’s greatest review. “Parts of the play were original and interesting. Unfortunately, the parts that were original were not interesting and the parts that were interesting were not original.” I have to admit, I am being just a little unfair to you. You are not the worst here. You are certainly the goofiest. That litany at the end of your posts was just too silly to pass up. Seeing as you can’t take it, I’ll try to let up on you. Just try to limit your posts. You are such a tempting target. 36
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 03:42 | # “I’ll try to let up on you.” (—TOG) Yeah, please do ... it’s so clear you’ve bested me! Do have a little pity on the vanquished now, I beg you! I’m so humiliated! (Lord, I really feel sorry for the one you decide to go after next—using those masterful verbal strokes of yours you’ll crush him like he’s never been crushed in his life! Can no one here find shelter from your all-conquering wrath?, from your withering scorn?) “Just try to limit your posts.” (—TOG) Right, I’ll be really sure to do that. Anything you say, TOG. 37
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 04:01 | # “I’m waiting to see you actually have an important and original idea.” (—TOG) Yeah, the vast number of those which you’ve come up with dwarfs everyone and everything for miles around. In fact, MR.com regulars are known for just hanging around here breathlessly awaiting your next post. They have eyes for naught else. On your days off they go into fits of anger and frustration, hysterical crying jags, the works—simply cannot be consoled. 38
Posted by Lurker on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 05:13 | # Fred’s got it there! Tog hasnt actually stated any position yet (other than that Im a jerk, but hey, I knew that already) and here I am on the edge of my seat waiting for the pearls of wisdom to drop. 39
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 07:58 | # Seen linked over at <u>Steve</u>‘s just now: <u>here</u>‘s a Dutchman (who signs as Snouck Hurgronje) discussing the best way to proceed in the matter of repatriating Europe’s Moslems which he says he’s known since age fifteen would have to come about some day (he was right at age fifteen and he’s right now). (The little entry in Steve’s log didn’t have its own permalink—you have to scroll down.) I don’t have time at the moment for a longer comment on his proposal (I’m off to bed). It’s well worth reading, as are the readers’ comments. The important thing is that this issue of what is the best way to implement humane repatriation be discussed as widely as possible from now on. This overall problem which the other side has saddled us with is going to be rectified—and rectified not to the other side’s liking, I might add. So, that’s clear. The only question now is exactly which repatriation method we’re going to utilize to get the job done. (Oh and, of course, moratorium is coming too—it will go hand-in-hand with repatriation: they go together ... just wanted to make sure everyone understood that ...) 40
Posted by The other guy on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 13:13 | # And Mr. Lurker has posted pearls of wisdom. When pigs fly. On that subject, even if I did have something grand to say, I would hardly do so before Lurker because we have been enjoined by scripture to watch where we cast pearls. 41
Posted by The other guy on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 13:50 | # As some seriousness has been asked from me as to where I stand, I’ll give them out here for the benefit of Scroob. I know he won’t respond, because, and I do not mean to insult here, but I do not believe he is serious. The general tenor of Majority Rights, that there is a problem with immigration and replacement is one I agree with. I would like to see an Israel style fence on the Southern border and everyone checked at airports and deported if they could not provide documentation of their fitness to be here. Having written that, I know that nothing will happen because those who hold power do not want it to happen and the masses who are being sold out do not care enough to demand it in a sustained popular movement. So what is to be done. One comes to sites like MR and what does one find. A lot of facts and observations, yes. Some of the observations I absolutely agreee with and some are well typed. At the end of the day what is it accomplishing? I have asked that of all of you here and got nothing. So, Mr Scrooby, Guessedworker even Lurker I have asked this question before. What is to be done. More specifically, what are you doing in this battle. Forgive me if I am of the opinion that most of the comments are silly, but do you guys actually do anything about this other than post? What do you suggest as a course of action. You know Mr. Scrooby, your idea of responding to someone who says anyone against immigration is a bigot by saying open Israel’s border is not bad and I’ll assume it was original with you. I have to ask, have you ever actually publicly spoke those words to Jews and in front of others. Scroob attacked me for an ego problem. Actually, I don’t think I have as big an ego as he believes. To be honest, I don’t think that is so. Beyond raising my children (I am probably one of the few people posting here who actually has offspring and are carrying on the race) to have as accurate a worldview as possible and to plan accordingly, I don’t have answers. So, Scroob, Lurker, please what are you actually doing? 42
Posted by Guessedworker on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 14:41 | # Tog, You over-estimate us - or our naivity - if you think that, at this stage in the defence of Western Man against advanced liberalism and all it visits upon us, we actually believe we can “do” anything, that is “will” political change. We know we are not at that stage. Perhaps we should be. Perhaps it is urgently necessary, if people like us are to have any hope of a reversal of the destruction, and of translating desires and ideas into solid actions. But there is no sign that the zeitgeist is ready for that. And premature action will not be widely understood - indeed it will be easily discredited by a powerful Establishment. So rather, we must speak our truths for now and attempt to familiarise others with them so that truth-speaking becomes endemic - even, in an ideal situation, a contagion. Then “doing”, “willing” will be possible. But today, alas, there is only talk. Don’t attack us for the weakness and powerlessness of our position. Add your voice to ours. 43
Posted by Lurker on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:09 | # Well Ive got offspring, so thats dealt with that. I was going to mention swine in my own post, forgot. What do I do? Well the first thing for any recovering liberal is to guard oneself against swallowing too much PC propaganda. If you cant protect yourself against it that theres not much hope for anyone who doesnt generally notice it. Then I can try and point those I know in the right general direction, a journey of a thousand miles etc Large scale immigration is a disaster but at the moment its not easy to articulate that, better to chip away at the individual bricks than the whole ediface at once. I feel this is getting easier with respect to muslims, those guys are really working hard to undermine multiculturalism. A person I know of impeccable liberal sentiments, though with a complete lack of interest in everyday politics, said, blurted out would be more correct, to me recently (Im paraphrasing) “What is it about all these muslims moaning about living here, if they dont like it why dont they just f*** off back to where they came from!” I was shocked I can tell you! Ten years ago someone like that would not have dared or even thought to say such a thing. Once theyve come out with that you can point out a few choice facts or stats, try and set the wheels in motion. Another vector of immigration awareness has been ebay (dont laugh!). Hundreds of thousands of Brits use ebay, a good percentage of them have by now been ripped off or defrauded by Nigerians, either living here or actually in Nigeria. Back in the 90s and before only traders and business people (and police of course) knew about the Nigerian national sport so it could be reasonably contained in a PC quarantine. Now lots of everyday people have been turned over the truth cant be hidden anymore. eg A few years back a liberal friend of mine raised his PC hackles when I mentioned that another friend (in the criminal justice system) spent an inordinate amount of time dealing with Nigerian fraudsters. Mr Liberal didnt want to hear that, after all he knew the TRUTH. Now here we are in 2005 and when he sells stuff on ebay he adds the provisio “No bidding from Nigeria thankyou”. So, no, I suppose I dont “do” anything, I just try and waft a few memes in the right direction. 44
Posted by Lurker on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:17 | # I actually wrote the above before GW posted, looks like we are all singing from the same hymn sheet! 45
Posted by Guessedworker on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:17 | # How long ago did the penny drop, Lurker - “recovering liberal” -wise? 46
Posted by Lurker on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 18:59 | # GW - no particular blinding revelation. Always had an interest in history so that was difficult to square with standard issue university vulgar marxism. Read Melanie Phillips education book “All Must Have Prizes” around the time my daughter was born. That was a bit of an eye-opener regarding the liberal project. 9/11 - realised muslims dont belong in the west. Stumbling upon VDare and Steve Sailer, realising what goes for the US goes for the rest of us too. Just seeing the real figures for immigration rates, or for non-white criminal activity is a breakthrough. Anecdote: met somebody is week, name of Dare. Told out them who Virginia Dare was, “the first real American” I said (that emphasis would worry the PC police, not an ordinary person), just maybe they will google Virginia Dare and who knows. Its nothing much, a pin prick at best. 47
Posted by AD on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 20:05 | # One comes to sites like MR and what does one find. A lot of facts and observations, yes. Some of the observations I absolutely agreee with and some are well typed. At the end of the day what is it accomplishing? I have asked that of all of you here and got nothing. -TOG MR is a place where people exchange ideas, hone positions, get brief relief from the insanity of the modern world etc. It isn’t a lobby group or political organisation as far as i know so i’m not sure what activism you expect done in its name. I participate in real life activism as i’m sure alot of others here do. My real name is out in public, and i cop lots of crap for it(my photo has appeared numerous times on an ‘anti-racist’ website and they’ve tried to get me sacked from my job with the usual ‘white supremacist’ smear to my boss). I’m probably younger than most of the posters here and learn alot from their wisdom. In terms of arguing with the opposition, i can honestly say i’ve stolen most of my points from your voluntary nemesis, Fred Scrooby. I’m not an American, but if you’re looking for real world stuff to do(and thats what i think you’re asking, or at least pretending to), join the minutemen. I know of at least one former MR poster who participated. If you want something more lobby group-esque, help the National Policy Institute, they’re looking for volunteers. If neither are militant enough for you, join National Vanguard(whom i don’t endorse). Otherwise, if you just want to naysay and express how futile even trying is, just keep doing what you’re doing. It will indicate that you’re an old fashioned divide/discredit/dishearten troll. 48
Posted by Matra on Thu, 01 Dec 2005 21:25 | # For many people it is ethnic and cultural concerns rather than economics that led them to the right of the political spectrum in the first place. Yet most eventually succumb to libertarianism, Toryism, the religious right, or other movements often because they assume that anyone who talks openly about race must be a mentally disturbed loser with no education. Sites like this show that there are many learned defenders of the interests of whites rather than the straight out of Hollywood casting types we’re all familiar with. Until I got internet access a couple of years ago I had no idea there were so many politically aware people with thoughts similar to my own. So in addition to providing ideas sites like MR, VDARE, and others are an antidote to despair and, hopefully, they can also deter present and future activists from throwing in their lot with the Economic Man crowd. 49
Posted by Svigor on Fri, 02 Dec 2005 03:13 | # Before we can do anything, there has to be a we. That’s what MR and other places like it are for - starting work on creating a “we.” We don’t get the luxury of other groups, we have to start from square one…square -1 really. 50
Posted by The other guy on Fri, 02 Dec 2005 22:57 | # Well, thanks for the comments. I now have an understanding of what you stand for. Little disappointed Scrooby did not post. Actually, he has met all my expectations. 51
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 03 Dec 2005 00:31 | # “Little disappointed Scrooby did not post.” (—TOG) The others said what I would’ve. 52
Posted by The other guy on Sat, 03 Dec 2005 01:13 | # So you are not active. That is telling all those Jewish yuppies up therein Vermont “The proper way to respond to Jews who do that is to call for the opening of Israel’s borders to Palestinians, Arabs, and all Moslems and see how they react.” So I take it that is an admission that you are not up there teaching them manners because as you put it “these Jews’ mothers apparently never taught them manners” Don’t worry, I knew you didn’t. Talking the talk is okay, just don’t pretend you walk the walk when you don’t. Got it? 53
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 03 Dec 2005 06:40 | # Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…...... (could someone wake me up when he’s done?—Thnx ...) Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz…...... 54
Posted by dlg on Sat, 03 Dec 2005 21:53 | # The proper way to respond to Jews who do that is to call for the opening of Israel’s borders to Palestinians, Arabs, and all Moslems and see how they react. Actually, 20% of Israel’s population consists of non-Jewish Arabs. Unfortunate but true. These “Israeli Arabs” do not consider themselves to be Israelis, but rather Palestinians with Israeli passports. 55
Posted by The other guy on Sun, 04 Dec 2005 14:54 | # “Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…...... (could someone wake me up when he’s done?—Thnx ...) Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz…...... “ Loser. 56
Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:53 | # TOG, Can you please address the issues raised in our posts, not attack the personalities here? A rather generous effort to explain ourselves to you has been made. Now at least set aside these taunts about activism and either participate here or take your leave. If you decide to participate you will, of course, be welcome. 57
Posted by The other guy on Mon, 05 Dec 2005 03:07 | # Guessedworker, This is your place and your rules. No problem. It does seem that you and a few others like, to borrow a phrase from the 60s, get your rocks of by occasionally insulting Ireland for doing the same stupid things the rest of the western world is doing. Do you think your guffaws do anything but alienate a potential ally. I am only doing to the ridiculous Scrooby what you, he and Lurker do to a whole nationality. I assure you, I don’t do it with any pleasure. With Scrooby, it is a little different. I exposed him as a lying blowhard. I am happy to leave if in the end is not a serious site. 58
Posted by Lurker on Mon, 05 Dec 2005 05:42 | # Im sure Im aware that Ireland is only making the same mistakes as the rest of us. I hope I wasnt insulting Ireland itself (some of my best friends etc). I was poking fun at the particular Irish nationalist mindset which was until recently more than happy to kill British people for the control of a portion of that island. (And to hypocritcally annex a large group of people who didnt want to Irish citizens). But which is rolling out the red carpet to large numbers of people who will in time given current trends have the demographic inertia etc to control/wreck Ireland itself. Part of the irony is that Irish nationalists are just that, nationalists - thats how they gain their support, funds and loyalty. But their leaders are fully paid up members of the transnational left (hence their popularity with UK lefties) who given the chance will gleefully flush Ireland down the tubes along with the rest of the west. Very likely the coming years will be painful for Sinn Fein as they try to ride both these horses. Personally Ive always favoured the idea of land for peace in NI. Hive off any Catholic enclaves on the border and cede them to the Republic. Zig-zag the border around farms, houses, whatever, to please as many people as possible. Pay others (Catholic & Protestant) the necessary ca$h to move around and end up with a smaller Ulster with 100% Protestant population, well maybe not 100%, there would be some Catholics who would opt to stay. It would certainly cost less than the conflict has cost Britain & Ireland so far. Sinn Fein would hate it of course. For all their trumpeting of foreign volunteers and support the reality is the core active membership of SF and IRA come from amongst NI Catholics. Without that recruiting ground they would fade away. Of course its far too practical, which is why its unlikely. Look at Cyprus, intercommunal violence was solved there 30 years ago, but the Greeks cant wait to unite the two “communities” again. Why go looking for trouble? What happens if the Turks outbreed the Greeks on the island, won’t look like a great idea then will it. My suspicion is the Greeks dont really want to unite the island, its just a stick to beat the Turks with. So Tog, at the risk of sounding like a total wuss, I apoligise for any perceived insult to Ireland and its people (though not to SF and IRA). 59
Posted by The other guy on Mon, 05 Dec 2005 13:30 | # I am not looking for an apology. Your remarks had that flavor of a cheap shot. Look at those Irish, at it again. Well, look at those Brits, decades of stupidity. Is Sinn Fein an opportunist political party. Of course, at the top it certainly is. Putting opportunist with political party is redundant. Doing the us poor Brits, victims of Irish ethnic hatred schtick is rich. Britain in Ireland was theft and oppression. If you guys want to look at and discuss the situation that faces all of us, I’m your man. If you want to play intramurals to the detriment of the big picture, I’m your man. Apropos of nothing, as I was driving home on Saturday night, listening to the BBC interview of Gerry Adams. Now I am as cynical about him as any of you. Still, I took a certain pleasure in his performance. The harridan who was questioning him was hostile and relentless. No softball pitches, all of them were fast, low and inside curveballs (sorry, I can’t do cricket terminology instead of baseball). No matter what the biddy threw at him he hit it out of the park. For me, the leader of a political party is beyond trust. Still, I enjoyed him, what is your phrase, “taking the piss” out of the BBC. 60
Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 05 Dec 2005 13:46 | # The BBC is always fair game. Murder is always murder. There is no defence in “the Brits in Ireland” argument for the deeds of modern Irish terrorism. I hope you accept that, or you are no friend and your offer to be “our man” in respect of the crisis in the West is not required. 61
Posted by The other guy on Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:15 | # I guess we part. As to say what you do is to defend all the murders and lies of England in Ireland. Sorry you don’t get it. Englnd invaded and occupied Ireland. If a German invasion had happened in WWII and most of the population had acquiesced there is no action no matter how brutal that you would not endorse in resisting such an invasion. I have often had fun with Angloshere types holding your position. I then ask about Dresden and enjoy watching the torture of logic as they tell me how holy the incineration of that city was. You caricature yourself. Your position is that of the deputy minister in Brazil blaming terrorism on “bad sportsmanship.” 62
Posted by Matra on Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:47 | # The Other Guy, As I said earlier real Irish people ridicule “Plastic Paddies” and they will even do so in front of Ulstermen and Englishmen. If you guys want to look at and discuss the situation that faces all of us, I’m your man If by that you mean we as Europeans face the same threat from non-Europeans you ought to be careful saying it to an Irishman - a real one not a Plastic. It was the Irish Catholics who sang “We Shall Overcome” during their very own civil rights movement, which they based on MLK Jr’s American movement. It was Irish Catholic Republicans like Bernadette Devlin who went to the US in the early 70s to not only raise funds but to condemn the racism of Irish-Americans, which she made a point of doing everywhere she went. It’s only in Catholic parts of Belfast where they’ve put up murals dedicated to Nelson Mandela, US civil rights icons like Gerry Adams’s late friend Rosa Parks, the American Indian Movement, and Australian Aborigines. As far as I know the Irish are the only white nationality to happily claim to be “the blacks of Europe”. They put this into practice by supporting every Third World cause one can think of. It may not be fair to put all Irish in the enemy category (when their cities look like Detroit they may come on board) but it was the Irish who insisted on projecting a leftist pro-Third World, anti-racist, and anti-British image to the world. If Irish Catholics take pride in being the world’s loudest anti-racists (next to Jews) while at the same time killing whites who’ve lived in Ulster close to 400 years then they shouldn’t cry when the British take note and judge them for it. Sorry you don’t get it. Englnd invaded and occupied Ireland It also took over North America and Australasia and settled them with its own people. If the presence of British people in Ulster is illegitimate (whatever that means) then so is the presence of whites in the New World. No right wing Brits would cheer on American Indians if they started shooting Irish-American cops (ie colonists!) in Boston and New York - though many Guardian reading IRA sympathisers would. Let’s just say it’s disappointing that so many Irish-Americans applaud similar actions by the IRA in Ulster. 63
Posted by The other guy on Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:04 | # I can’t say I have a complete knowledge of the Brit conquest of North America, but I do have a fair amount as regards the English conquest of New England. It is a story of lying and duplicity and theft on the part of the English. If you want to defend that go ahead. Yeah I would not cheer on the Wampanoag if they started shooting the Plymouth cops, but I could not blame them. Matra, you are as the plastic paddies say, cute as a shithouse rat. You don’t really answer the question. As I noted with GW, if the German’s had conquered Britain in WWII, there is nothing no matter how brutal you would not applaud. Is that not right? As to the plastic paddies business. You really have to get another line. You say that over and over again. It proves nothing and even the first time was boring. 64
Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:07 | # TOG, Dresden was a political decision, fundamentally different from the rest of Bomber Command’s great test of endurance. It does not morally disqualify the latter, so where’s your big killer point? As to Germans in England, I am bloody well three parts Germanic. That’s my people’s history. What you are talking about is Nazism in England, hardly relevant to Ulster in the last three decades of the 20th century. The IRA’s murders are not excusable because they were not necessary, as the outcome has proven. The motive was always racial hatred - met, of course, in kind. Now the Irish and Scots-Irish are able to return to the “jaw, jaw” that could have been employed all along, had hatred not been the spur. Frankly, I am shocked that you justify murder. You should look to your heart to discover why that is. Matra, would you please mail me? 65
Posted by Matra on Tue, 06 Dec 2005 02:59 | # The other guy - “As I noted with GW, if the German’s had conquered Britain in WWII, there is nothing no matter how brutal you would not applaud. Is that not right?” No. You actually seem to be suggesting that anyone critical of the Irish Republicanism that reared its ugly head in the 60s is defending everything that Britain has ever done to the Irish. I’d be surprised if anyone here has made that argument or even implied such. Most Irish Catholics (real ones) seem to see quite a difference between the the Republicans who went around cleansing working class Protestants from Fermanagh and west Tyrone during the Troubles and the Republicans they honour with statues in Dublin. But it’s difficult getting that message out to Irish wannabes with American accents. The other guy - “As to the plastic paddies business. You really have to get another line. You say that over and over again. It proves nothing and even the first time was boring.” I only wish my posts could be as insightful and exciting as yours! All you do is whinge about alleged anti-Irish stereotypes and insult other posters - Fred, Svigor, Ben Tillman, Guessedworker, John Ray, TOC and a few others. Exciting stuff! I’ll keep referring to plastic Paddies and taunting them because they are phonies and, even worse, dividers. Those N Americans going around calling themselves Irish fall into two main categories - middle and upper class liberals trying to distance themselves from other white Americans whom they see as uncouth racists, or victomolgists playing the ethnic card (and dividing whites in the process). It’s one thing for Ulster Catholics to play that ethnic card as they’ve unfinished business as they see it. But for people of Irish descent living in the US to dwell on Irish suffering at the hands of British Protestants is myopic. What good will all that phony Irishness do you when your cities and towns are taken over by blacks and Mexicans? 66
Posted by The other guy on Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:30 | # To further answer you fellows is a waste of time. Nice work GW, changing my point from Germans to Nazis. It does not matter who the invaders are unless you are saying it would have been okay if the Germans had invaded and not the nazis. Yup, and you excuse Dresden as political. And more of the us poor Brits showing nothing but love in Ireland and being racially targeted when we never did anything wrong in Ireland. As to Matra “What good will all that phony Irishness do you when your cities and towns are taken over by blacks and Mexicans?” What good will all this posting do? It quite something to accuse me of whingeing. You guys are all whingeing all the time. Cute as shithous rats 67
Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:30 | # Are you not an invader then, TOG. As for Dresden, it was a political, not operational, decision. The man who carried the moral responsibility for Area Bombing during and after the war was Arthur Harris. Through his person the muck kicked up over Dresden has been lovingly applied to Bomber Command and the British conduct of war generally. But the order to attack Dresden did not originate with him, or with Tooey Spaatz. It came from a simple desire in the White House and Downing Street to mollify Stalin. Whose name, then, will you blacken? And if it is that of “the English” why are you so jaundiced, my friend? It’s that hate thing again, isn’t it? Some years ago I was told a story by someone - an Englishman like myself - who travelled to Ireland quite regularly during the 1970’s. On one occasion he was staying ovenight in a small hotel out in the folds of the green countryside. That evening in the bar he broke his own rule and fell into talking to one of the locals about the history of England and Ireland. After a time an old man joined the conversation. This old boy had, apparently, fought the British in his callow years and had nursed the memory all his life. He was not slow in saying what he thought of the English race. The Englishman, of course, was mortified and tried to put him at his ease, not wishing the old boy to have a heart attack on account of him. But the more the Englishman tried to calm him, the more vociferous and insulting the old devil got. Finally, he said, “You fuckin’ English are all the same. I insult you to your face. I say the worst things I can about you. But you still try to be all nice and charming. That ... that’s why I hate you so fuckin much.” Among intelligent people this sort of thing is not needed. 68
Posted by The other guy on Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:48 | # “Whose name, then, will you blacken? ” Actually, it is you who is in the name blackening business. All Irish resistance is Brit hatred. Well sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Sometimes resistance is just resistance. Citing someone in a bar proves what?. Everyone is a hero after a few brewskies. I’ve heard this one elsewhere anyway. The number of Brits who have been to Ireland and met this guy in the bar could fill a couple of stadiums. 69
Posted by Martin Hutchinson on Tue, 06 Dec 2005 17:09 | # Doesn’t include me however; I’ve always had more sense than go anywhere near Irish bars. Being insulted by lovable geriatrics has never appealed. While 33.3% of my wives have been ethnically Irish, they have their downsides, and endless whingeing about ill-treatment is, along with excessive alcohol consumption, among the worst of them. In reality, the potato famine was due to dozy economic decisions by the Irish peasantry and the only serious British ill-treatment of Ireland was carried out by Cromwell, who ill-treated everybody else as well. If you want to get nostalgic about 1798 or 1916, then go do so on a blog filled with leftists whom you will find more sympatico. The Global War on Terror should be a war on ALL terror, and that includes the IRA. Personally I prefer the Global War on Riff-Raff as a title—that includes enemies like Hugo Chavez and the Argentines, and removes the focus from Islam, a perfectly sensible religion if practiced in moderation. 70
Posted by The other guy on Tue, 06 Dec 2005 17:56 | # “While 33.3% of my wives have been ethnically Irish, they have their downsides, and endless whingeing about ill-treatment is, along with excessive alcohol consumption, among the worst of them.” Of course, we are only hearing one side of the story. I find guys whingeing about ex wives to be about as much fun as being in a bar with geriatrics. Please, if you can’t make intelligent marriage decisions, don’t blame it on your former spouse. “In reality, the potato famine was due to dozy economic decisions by the Irish peasantry” As if they had a lot of choices. 71
Posted by Desmond Jones on Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:35 | # Jimmy Cantrell writes
Ollie Cromwell was bitterly opposed to the RC Papacy blaming them for the tyranny and persecution of Protestants in Europe. His belief was that God was actively directing the affairs of the world and that oft times a people were ‘chosen’ for such purposes. However, even utilitarian, J.S. Mill suggested,
72
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:33 | # (Desmond that was a very nice quote by J.S. Mill. Thanks for that.) You know, it occurs to me that the origin of The Other Guy’s unremitting bitter resentment against those associated with this site, bloggers and reader-commenters alike, is without any basis in that it seems to have involved a gross misunderstanding on his part: John Ray, I’m pretty sure it was, had posted a photo with the intention of showing the stark contrast between the behavior of the Irish during their flood a few years back and the New Orleans Sub-Saharans during theirs. The photo showed a small group of Irishmen calmly having a pint at what looked like some sort of makeshift outdoor pub or bar or something, all calmly standing calf-deep in floodwater. It was in that thread that TOG first burst upon the scene here, already with a chip on his shoulder apparently (judging by some of his comments thereafter) put there by his misinterpretation of that photo as being meant somehow to insult the Irish. It wasn’t, of course—not in any way whatsoever. Quite the contrary, in fact. But that was what first got his hackles up and they haven’t gone down since. You’ve made a mistake, TOG. No one was insulting the Irish. (Of course, if you keep up your thick-headedness they may just start ...) 73
Posted by Matra on Wed, 07 Dec 2005 01:08 | # The famous MOPE (Most Oppressed People Ever) Irishman is not all that common anymore. Today most Irish are confident and unlike a lot of Americans of Irish descent they have a sense of humour. John Ray’s photo would’ve brought laughs from all the Irish Catholics I used to work with. That’s the good news about modern middle class Ireland. The bad news is that they are so confident they are recklessly adopting the diversity nonsense that has made unlivable so many parts of Europe and North America. 74
Posted by ben tillman on Wed, 07 Dec 2005 03:10 | #
Yes, I had forgotten that. To me, the salient fact was that the Irishmen depicted did not react to a disruptive weather event by going on a criminal rampage. But I am not an Irishman. While visiting here, the Irish and we Germans must take the Englishman’s chauvinism with a grain of salt. 75
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 07 Dec 2005 03:24 | # “To me, the salient fact was that the Irishmen depicted did not react to a disruptive weather event by going on a criminal rampage.” (—Ben Tillman) That was exactly John Ray’s reason for posting it. No one had any intention whatsoever of insulting the Irish. The sole intent was to contrast civilized and uncivilized reactions to a natural disaster, flooding. 76
Posted by The other guy on Thu, 08 Dec 2005 02:07 | # The floods were. another topic. Why are you rehashing that Scrooby? You have little to do. Sorry you can’t keep up with the subject matter. Of course I am sure you have a lot of sites to visit. Post a comment:
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Posted by John S Bolton on Tue, 29 Nov 2005 06:50 | #
You probably would have to start the payment at quite a high level for some months, even equal to the amortization of the net public subsidy of the median foreign born in a country. The suspicious mind of the moslem would not be first to jump at such a payment; they would have to see others getting it, and lose hope of anything but a steadily declining offer. This would be a kind of appeasement or tribute that would naturally lead many to increase their demands manyfold. There could be no opening for doubledipping, or tolerance of immigration of new eligibles. All those with a usable foreign connection would probably have to be eligible. The stick end of it would require some compensating fierceness. Those with criminal children would not want to go to places with much harsher punishments than Europe, so the lengthening of sentences, especially for stranger and domestic violence, would likely need to be commensurate. Illegals would have to be rousted quite brutally, to compensate for the softness of the tribute. Would the immigrationists say that the money paid would not repay itself; if they don’t, they contradict their claim that immigrants are fiscally beneficial.