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The power of Zionism in the public imagination a spent force? “We never said that we don’t recognise the state of Israel. We are part of it, but we will never accept Zionism, which is an ideology that aspires to banish us from our homes.” These were the words of Ahmed Tibi, chairman of the United Arab List, a proponent of the Two-State Solution and one of the two Arab parties disqualified this week from running in the forthcoming Knesset elections. For his part, the chairman of the other party, Jamal Zahalka, said:-
These two statements come pretty close to encapsulating the dual essence of Jewishness: the rigid and reflexive belief in a supremacy that licences Jews at all times and in all places, not just in Israel today, to direct the lives and affairs of lesser men along certain, time-worn paths, allied to an ineradicable fear of the Other which necessitates that direction. The consequence - banishment “from our homes” - is something that will ring a bell for every nationalist of European descent looking on at the remorseless cosmopolitanisation of his own land. But in Gaza the old zionist magic isn’t working. Just as Hezbollah could not be defeated in the Lebanon in 2006, so Hamas cannot be overcome now - no matter how much violence the IDF and the Israeli Air Force do to Gazans. The dissident Israeli jazzman and part-time political commentator, Gilad Atzmon, writes:-
It’s not that the moral scales are tilting, they are covered in squiggly Arabic writing. Another prominent critical Jewish voice is Sir Gerald Kaufman, MP, who has condemned the “cover” provided by exploitation of the Holocaust for the slaughter of 1100 Gazans:-
To top it all, today the Guardian saw fit to publish an aggressive piece of Jewish victimology by the “American” author and journalist Elizabeth Lee Wurzel. It was titled Standing against a tide of hatred, and it expanded on the charming thought that “It is not Israel’s action, but the vitriolic reaction to it that has been disproportionate. There’s only one explanation: antisemitism”. The thread has hit 785 comments before its closure for the night, and says it all. One comment by another Guardian contributor (“Revolting article, revolting thesis. Hard to express my disgust with this.”) has scored just two away from five-hundred reader recommendations. To give you a flavour of things here is one of the better comments, from one JayReilly:-
Now, all of this demonstrates an irrefutable and very interesting truth: Zionism, as it pertains to the Jewish state, is in difficulties, and probably terminal difficulties, with the more reflective parts of Western public opinion. If you still doubt it, take a moment to check out the Amazon page for Walt and Mearsheimer’s The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy. 199 reviews! 128 comments on the top review! Such activity levels do not correspond with the old idea of a European untermensch thrown into confusion and guilt-ridden submission with ridiculous ease just by a single, Zyklon B laced denunciation. The white-hot outrage at Israel’s repeated terror methods, aided and abetted, no doubt, by the great store of anger at Bush and Cheney and the neocons, and the onset of the financial crisis, is proving too strong for the Jewish word tools. For nationalists, it’s a start - though not one brought about by any labours of ours. But, anyway, we must ask ourselves whether the same potential exists to disaffect public opinion with other Jewish mega-interests, in particular the cosmopolitanisation of the West and the entrenchment of the Holocaust as the defining event of the 20th century. Perhaps the Holocaust will be the next to feel the heat. There is a wearyness setting in. A growing body of people are, frankly, sick of Jews using it to extract support for Israel from the West. They don’t question the tenets of the faith yet. They don’t withdraw their children from school lessons on the Holocaust . But they are starting to question its application to legal and political life - witness this rebellious Guardian thread from last October. Subject: the recent Toben affair. One of the commenters on today’s Guardian thread wrote that last week Stephen Daldry, the British director of The Reader, said his offering is the 256th film on the sacred subject. Many win awards, as his probably will. But few of them make money. The lesson of the failing power of Zionism over the public imagination is that the Holocaust, too, will be killed off not by the efforts of nationalists and revisionists but by an intractable, unstoppable wave of public wearyness and disinterest. I believe in that eventuality, but I wouldn’t like to put a timescale to it just yet. Comments:2
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 17 Jan 2009 02:53 | # Let me be clear: I have never wavered in my support for Israel against its enemies. A few days ago at his blog, Friedrich Braun said to someone, “Fred Scrooby is a Zionist.” That was right. Starting today I am a Zionist conditional upon reciprocity from Jews, as any other position is insane. There is less than zero reciprocity from Jews. I cannot continue to be insane. 3
Posted by Diamed on Sat, 17 Jan 2009 04:43 | # That’s a good point Fred. I’ve always felt Israel is a benign country and not part of the jewish problem. But perhaps threatening Israel is the only way to get the non-Israeli jews off our backs. In any event, it is stupid to support Israel at the same time jews refuse to support Europe. 4
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 17 Jan 2009 04:56 | #
This is correct. And no Euro should continue to do it. All Euros should stop supporting Israel. Euros get nothing but a perpetual knife in the back from Jews. And they’re supposed to support Israel???? I’m waking up on this question. So should all Euros. 5
Posted by onetwothree on Sat, 17 Jan 2009 06:19 | # Israel’s strategic problems boggle the mind. Whatever concerns we have in the US in being surrounded by savages, Israelites have 10x worse—militarily and demographically. Why exactly they are engaging in this murderous anti-public relations stunt to stop a few ridiculous rockets is beyond me. The IDF should just ignore it, really. 6
Posted by Leon Haller on Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:02 | # (I think I should have posted the following comments under this article! LH) Sirs: I’m new to the site, and have probably missed the relevant discussion, but ... why are you so hostile to Jews (I’m struck by the tone of some of th preceeding comments)? (No, I am not Jewish: Lutheran/Catholic, German/French/Dutch with a spot of English - pure white, unto the generations.) I have written elsewhere that this is a mistake, which in essence is this: why not try to convert (ideologically) Jews to white racial nationalism (or at least preservationism), instead of driving them away with hostility? I have read Kevin MacDonald’s now-famous sociobiological trilogy, which for me was merely the intellectual capstone to decades of critically observing the Jews, from Jewish family friends growing up, to Jewish college friends (my elite school was over a quarter “chosen”, as are most of the Ivies; ditto grad school), professional colleagues and competitors, and finally, the various worlds we all touch indirectly, those of scholarship, media, finance, law, entertainment, etc. No discerning man can fail to note the preponderance of Jews at the professional apexes of American life (it’s not quite the same now in Europe, is it?), nor to admit the ideo-politico-culturally malign role that Jews have played in Western, and especially, Anglospheric life since WW2, and before (we all remember that the anti-FDR Right routinely spoke of the “communist Jew-Deal” - and, of course, Jews were heavily involved both in promoting mass-immigration to the US before WW2, and throughout the whole sordid history of communism until the last years of Stalin’s life). No “white” ethnic group has more relentlessly pushed white deracination, minority rights, immigration, discarding of white cultural memory, endless white racial guilt, interracial wealth transfers, anti-traditionalism, and all of the other features of modern political and cultural life so alienating to any sane and racially healthy white man. Finally, 81% of Jews voted for Obama! A majority of all other white American groups except gays voted Republican (I voted third party, as always, this time prompted by the traitor McCain’s rancid immigration amnesty advocacy). So, yes, the Jews have given Eurofolkish patriots plenty of justifiable reasons to hate them. I know this story. But there is another side, which I shall just briefly touch upon. Bluntly, I’ve known many wonderful Jews in my life (how many of us can honestly say that about, say, blacks?). More broadly, we must all admit that Jews do make genuine positive contributions to American life, at least in the sciences and business (most Americans would also add entertainment to the list, though perhaps not bloggers here), as well as philanthropy to non-Judeo-specific causes. Without Jews, America would probably be a better place, but the calculus is not nearly so one-sided as with blacks or Hispanics. Unless you hew to the notion, plausible but by no means definitive or proven, that Jews (like blacks) are ethically inferior to whites (I believe that assertion to be true, but only slightly; I would like to see the comparison made controlling for IQ, smart people being shrewder competitors than more mediocre types, with such shrewdness sometimes stirring up unwarranted animosity), then it would seem that Jews exist in a deontologically different space from other minorities. That is, we object to Jews because their liberal politics puts us in proximity to and therefore at risk from the truly morally inferior groups. Put more concisely, Jews are objectionable because of their politics, which is a function of thought and therefore at least theoretically amendable; blacks/Hispanics/Arabs/aboriginals are objectionable because of their behavior, which derives from inherited traits and instincts, which are not amendable. Thus, if Jews could be persuaded NOT to be race-liberals, then what would be wrong with them? Would they still warrant nationalist hostility? All of which brings me to my real point. I think white nationalist anti-Semitism is a huge mistake. It may have had a place in the struggle against Bolshevism (though there were always some Jews who were strongly opposed to communism, from economist Ludwig von Mises to Hollywood studio head Louis B. Mayer). But in the desperate but still largely unrecognized struggle today to save the West from racial suicide through demographic inundation, Jews have no real reason to continue to push leftism. The Jew is hated by the increasingly multicultural Left, hated by Muslims, hated by American blacks (a delicious irony of history, given how much the Jews helped these Negroid ingrates in their hallowed “civil rights struggle”). The Jews will not survive apart from whites. If the West goes down, or merely if increasing numbers of non-whites lead to Western indifference towards Israel, it will not benefit the Jews. Far from it. From Wall Street to Gaza, their entire mode of existence is dependent upon a beneficent “white superstructure”. On an increasingly non-white as well as mostly dysgenic planet, Jews, like whites, will be ‘sitting ducks’ - only more so, given their still smaller numbers, yet proportionately much greater wealth. No, Jews will not like ‘mud’ rule at all. And given their high intelligence, and hence educability, this is an opening ... I could say more, and will, depending on whether this post of mine generates responses. 7
Posted by Tusky on Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:56 | # Israel does not hope to defeat its enemies in the conventional sense. It seeks to create chaos and misery in enemy states, either by itself or through the use of proxies as in Iraq. This demoralizes the enemies, causes many to move away, removes their chance to concentrate power, and gives Israel the opportunity to take advantage of any fortuitous situation that pops up. They are willing to be unloved, even hated. They are willing to be uncomfortable and unhappy for substantial periods of time. But over many years this strategy will gain them additional territory and the advantage of “defense in depth.” They are playing a decades-long strategy, not something that has to be tested in a four-year election cycle. Nothing the US can do will deter Israel from this path, but I have hope that the US may abandon our political, financial, and military support. Let them act as they will, as their assets allow. Even with US support the jury is out whether Israel can survive. The demographics are not in their favor. If they were going to usurp a patch of land, they sure picked a sandpile. I mean, if they were really the Chosen People, why not settle on, say, Iowa….wait a minute! Tusky 8
Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:33 | # Tusky: They are playing a decades-long strategy, not something that has to be tested in a four-year election cycle. 9
Posted by Joe on Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:36 | # What this shows is that British people are much less brainwashed on Israel than Americans are. 10
Posted by Bill on Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:15 | # Frank Furedi-Spiked magazine. Monday 19th January 2009
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Posted by Diamed on Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:08 | # Some interesting polls from that article: “This approach is most notable in societies that were deeply implicated in the persecution of Jews during the Second World War; according to various surveys, the idea that Jews were responsible for their own persecution was supported by 30 per cent of respondents in Russia, 27 per cent in the Ukraine, 35 per cent in Belarus, 31 per cent in Lithuania, and 17 per cent in Germany in 2004 (14). “ “For example, one survey carried out in 2002 suggested that 25 per cent of German respondents took the view that ‘Jewish influence’ on American politics was one important reason why the Bush administration invaded Iraq.” “One survey, carried out by the Anti-Defamation League, found that 47 per cent of Spanish respondents stated ‘probably true’ to at least three out of four anti-Semitic stereotypes presented to them. More interesting still is a recent poll commissioned by the Spanish Ministry of Education: it found that more than 50 per cent of secondary school pupils would rather not sit next to a Jewish classmate (9). “ “surveys indicate that negative attitudes towards Jews rarely translate into positive attitudes towards Muslims: 52 per cent of Spanish respondents indicated that they rate Muslims unfavourably, too (11).” (Are you reading this fjordman? Your ridiculous hypothesis that anyone who opposes jews will not oppose muslims and is thus a hindrance to the protection of the European indigenous people sure doesn’t hold up in Spain.) “A study titled Unfavourable Views of Jews And Muslims on the Increase in Europe, published in September 2007, found that 34 per cent of respondents who identified themselves as being on the political right and 28 per cent of those who said they were on the left had a generally unfavourable view of Jews.” IE we’re all in this together, regardless of our other politico-religious beliefs, there’s a universal detestation of jews. Multiply all these poll results by two due to most people being too afraid to respond honestly to a pollster on this issue, and then maybe divide it by two due to jews trying to sensationalize their victimhood status, and you get a rather interesting picture of current-day Europe. Far from the fringe, anti-semitism is a mainstream, normal (as Fred would say, slightly left of center progressive), popular and accepted belief. 12
Posted by Desmond Jones on Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:42 | # Mr. Reilly engages in the tired old theme of British moral superiority. “We did not behave ignobly towards our Jews.” Yes the Brits and the Yanks and the colonials and all the other “good guys” fought the Nazis but not to save the Jews. There were no attempts to bomb the railway lines to Auschwitz. The British mandate in Palestine restricted European Jews from migrating there, even under the auspice of a Zionist/Nazi agreement. The British public did not “welcome” the Jewish migration to their country anymore than they welcome the Muslim migration. It was forced upon them. It was the Germans that built Israel under the coercion of the Luxembourg agreement, a reparations scheme unparalleled in the history of warfare. Mr. Reilly & Co. are the authors of their own demise. For fucks sake stop whining about being called an anti-Semite. Nothing will change until Mr. Reilly embraces the fact it is the truth. There is good reason to be hostile. Ethnic aggression is a bitch ain’t it. 13
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:00 | # Tusky’s letter above, describing the particular tactics Israel uses to weaken Arabs, applies equally to Eurosphere Jewry: these are largely the same tactics Eurosphere Jewry uses to weaken Euros, so I’ve re-written the comment:
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Posted by Fred Scrooby on Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:21 | #
So? They’d rather sit next to their friends and don’t think Jewish kids are likely to be in that category. And if they’re not in that category it’s likelier because Spanish Jews hate Christians and prefer to keep away from them than because Spaniards hate Jews and prefer to keep away from them. How many Jewish secondary school pupils would “rather not sit next to” a classmate who, let’s say, “believes in Jesus.” You’d get 100 percent, not 50 percent, of Jewish pupils responding they’d rather not, and 100 percent, not 50 percent, of Jewish parents responding they’re rather their child not. In a just world Abe Foxman’s incessant dishonest and slimy money-raising polls would make every man, woman, child, and old personi on the planet sick and tired of the Jews and start to see them as extremely obnoxious and slimy. Does that mean anti-Semitic? No, it means good taste and common sense. I would say Abe Foxman may be the most obnoxious person who ever existed. 15
Posted by Svigor on Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:13 | # Why exactly they are engaging in this murderous anti-public relations stunt to stop a few ridiculous rockets is beyond me. The IDF should just ignore it, really. Politics. Don’t they have some elections coming up? 16
Posted by Svigor on Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:37 | # <quote>I’m new to the site, and have probably missed the relevant discussion, but ... why are you so hostile to Jews (I’m struck by the tone of some of th preceeding comments)? (No, I am not Jewish: Lutheran/Catholic, German/French/Dutch with a spot of English - pure white, unto the generations.) I have written elsewhere that this is a mistake, which in essence is this: why not try to convert (ideologically) Jews to white racial nationalism (or at least preservationism), instead of driving them away with hostility?</quote> Hi LH, welcome to MR. I hope you end up staying for a spell. Why not try to convert the Jews? I say this after years of considering the Jewish problem, including your suggested “conversion”: Jew and Euro are contradictory terms in this context. The one precludes the other, and vice-versa. A man cannot serve two masters, much less two masters hostile to one another. So, yes, the Jews have given Eurofolkish patriots plenty of justifiable reasons to hate them. I know this story. <quote>But there is another side, which I shall just briefly touch upon. Bluntly, I’ve known many wonderful Jews in my life (how many of us can honestly say that about, say, blacks?).</quote> I doubt very much they were “wonderful” in the current context. Secret for you: most of the Jews screwing us are “wonderful,” if you divorce from the current context. Where do you think the ADL, SPLC, etc. get their money? Manna from heaven? <quote>More broadly, we must all admit that Jews do make genuine positive contributions to American life, at least in the sciences and business (most Americans would also add entertainment to the list, though perhaps not bloggers here), as well as philanthropy to non-Judeo-specific causes.</quote> Are these contributions dependent upon living within Euro civilization? If yes, then we have to wonder how much is us, and how much is Jews. If no, then we can still benefit, the way Bantus benefit (or rather, could, if they had the brains) from electricity without importing Europeans. If Jewish brains are the real deal, they’ll work just fine in Israel. <quote>Without Jews, America would probably be a better place,</quote> America would 100% be a better place for Euros. Period, full stop. Until you get that, you’re not getting it. <quote>but the calculus is not nearly so one-sided as with blacks or Hispanics.</quote> Rubbish. Blacks and mestizos couldn’t do the sort of damage Jews have done, not in their wildest dreams. Any good that comes from Jews should come in the mail. <quote>That is, we object to Jews because their liberal politics puts us in proximity to and therefore at risk from the truly morally inferior groups.</quote> My main objection to Jews is that they look like us, but are in fact completely different (and inherently hostile). <quote>Thus, if Jews could be persuaded NOT to be race-liberals, then what would be wrong with them? Would they still warrant nationalist hostility?</quote> Without accepting your premise, I can say that there’d be nothing wrong with Jews if they could be brought round to behaving like civilized people. But that’s a lot like saying liquid would be great if it could be made not-wet. <quote>Jews have no real reason to continue to push leftism.</quote> I keep hearing this from would-be Monday morning quarterbacks. Tell the Jews! There is obviously a massive disconnect somewhere, between your thinking and that of Jews, a disconnect that can be observed going back eons. <quote>a delicious irony of history, given how much the Jews helped these Negroid ingrates in their hallowed “civil rights struggle”)</quote> I see it the other way ‘round; blacks helped Jews make the civil rights struggle happen. “Helped” implies a lesser level of contribution, right? Just look at MLK. He provided a warm body, lots of hot air, and a large body of extras (in the Hollywood sense); Jews provided the money, the speeches, the PR, etc. <quote>The Jews will not survive apart from whites.</quote> I hope for both our sakes that this isn’t true. Look, I’d throw a party if Jews came around. But then, I’d throw a party for lots of things that will never happen, most of which certainly aren’t baskets worthy of my eggs. 17
Posted by Svigor on Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:46 | # So much for the fucking quote tags. Is preview fixed yet (used to screw up posts and I haven’t tried it in forever)? 18
Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:44 | # I’ve run a database check, Svi, and it’s all functioning normally. The session timing remains a complete pain. But that’s just ExpressionEngine. We can’t extend it. You have to copy the comment before you hit the button, or risk throwing your favourite coffee mug at the monitor. 19
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:26 | # GW, by “preview” I think he means do the changes you make in the text of your comment register each time you re-click the preview button, and Svi yes, that’s been fixed: it works perfectly now — each new preview is updated with whatever were the last changes you’ve made. 20
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:28 | # And Svi don’t worry about the quote marks in that last comment you posted: I read it with no problem at all, as it was perfectly clear where you were quoting someone else and where you were commenting. 21
Posted by Armor on Tue, 20 Jan 2009 02:27 | #
Gaza could be a model for the West. Once most third-world immigrants have been sent back to their homelands, we could pack the rest in a small Gaza-like territory and we would hire a few Israeli bricklayers to build a really big wall around it. Or are we too moral to do that? I don’t completely understand what’s going on in the media. I think the reason we hear so much about Israel and Palestine is because the media are dominated by Jews. However, the media tend to be critical of Israel’s policy in Gaza. In fact, I think both sides of the media war are probably dominated by Jews, both in support of Israel, and against Israel. But I don’t really understand their logic. 22
Posted by Dave Johns on Tue, 20 Jan 2009 02:51 | # I think both sides of the media war are probably dominated by Jews, both in support of Israel, and against Israel. But I don’t really understand their logic. That in itself IS precisely their logic! Their agenda is to contol BOTH sides of the issue/perception or otherwise. 24
Posted by Dave Johns on Tue, 20 Jan 2009 03:04 | # That was my last post here at MR. Good luck to you all. Best wishes, and God Bless! 25
Posted by Homelander on Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:11 | # I think the coming generation of Jewish opinion-makers has already abandoned Zionism. After all, most Jews have never lived in Israel, and never will. If Jews ever needed to run from Western societies, then obviously Israel would be no safer, given I’s dependence on Western support, or at least, tolerance. Israel only ever really worked for refugees from Communist E. Europe, and from the Arab world…but who cares now, among the Askenazi? Since the French Revolution Jews have successively embraced several political philosophies - Enlightenment individualism, revolutionary Marxism, Left populism, neo-conservatism, and finally Multi-Culti. The Zionist fad covered Left populism and Neo-conservatism. Zionism is incompatible with the other philosophies in one or another ways. 26
Posted by Svigor on Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:07 | # Scroob has it right. I’m glad to hear preview is working again, I’ll start using it. Interesting read over at Sailer’s site, about the French Canadians. Pretty good evidence for “Desmondism,” that is, taking this site’s name literally. Makes a good case for opposing the existence of minorities of all kinds (by that I mean separate nationalities for separate groups). This goes to the heart of my problem with Jews - the fact of being a Jew means you’re a separate group and belong in a different nation than mine. 27
Posted by Svigor on Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:17 | #
LOL. We who? Ethno-nationalist Euros? Yes. But the current regime? Hell, no. Jews are their moral paragons; they’d contract security from the Israelis for bantustans in a heartbeat. Trouble is they’d want to put all of us in there. Post a comment:
Next entry: Some Suggestions on Etiquette, or, How to not be a ‘Sewer.’
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Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 17 Jan 2009 02:31 | #
A start for nationalists? God knows I’d love it to be, but forgive me, the Jay Reillys, Gilad Atzmons, Sir Gerald Kaufmans, Norman Finkelsteins, and Noam Chomskys of this world would all express fundamentally the same kinds of horror about, let’s say, this blog as Jay Reilly expressed there so vehemently about Israel’s Gaza offensive, and also about the sliminess of a certain really sickening kind of Jew. In which case, how is it a start? Again, I’d love it to be, but I just don’t know how this sort of thing, expressed by people who loathe what MR.com stands for even more than they loathe Israel’s attack on Gaza, benefits us, the opponents of the current methodical genocide of whites: these same critics of Israel see nothing wrong with the methodical genocide of whites and will viciously attack us for opposing it. In fact, the one thing in the whole world these critics like most about the Jews is the predominant role they’ve played in launching the current program for genociding whites. Attacking Israel over Gaza, and attacking certain really slimy Jews who cry “anti-Semitism” every five microseconds, doesn’t make them our friends.
That said, I am coming more and more to the realization that there is no reason for the relationship between pro-Israel Jewry and Salterian universal nationalists like me to continue to be one-sided, with everything for Israeli nationalism and nothing for Euro nationalism, absolutely zip for Euro nationalism, and even worse than zip, a knife in the back plunged, always plunged, never failing to be plunged, by a Jewish, always a Jewish, hand.
As of now the deal’s off, because fair play and respect don’t go in only one direction: no Euro, including Salterians, should support Israel against its enemies until the Jews support Euro nationalism and that means 1) dropping all Jewish opposition to rescinding the Jewish 1965 law and 2) dropping all Jewish opposition to implementing reasonable, humane programs for gradually, humanely, as painlessly as possible restoring the racial/ethnocultural status quo ante of every Eurosphere country on Earth. If the Jews refuse to agree to this, no Euro, even Salterians, should support Israel against its enemies.
Two can play the Jews’ game. If Euros haven’t played it heretofore it’s because by their nature Euros aren’t as low as Jews. But with such good teachers there’s no reason they can’t finally begin to catch on to how the game is played.