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Genetic interest assortation I’ve been working for the most part on Telegraph threads over the last several days, taking advantage of the recent flood of articles following David Cameron’s perfectly uninteresting utterences last week. One of the conversations I got myself involved in led to an explanation of ethnic genetic interests of the non-gene variety, as they are arranged in order of significance. Whether I got the ordering right I don’t know. But I thought I would repeat the idea here and take my punishment if not. So ... we know that the highest or ultimate interest for a people is a gene interest ... the gene interest, literally the number of copies of its shared distinctive genes in the world. Given our parlous situation and the strength of force aligned against us as European peoples, this really netts down to a single word: continuity. Just to secure our existence and a future for our children would be enough, and a mighty step forward from where we are now. I am not concerned here with genetic similarity and the concentricities of interest which exist in the wider human family and beyond. It is the material and sociobiological and cultural artifacts that appear in our life that I’m trying to order. Beneath continuity, in the layer of secondary interests, are surely the things which materially guarantee that continuity - territory and water, food and fuel resources for example. And guarantee is the word. At this level an interest is an essential of life without which survival as such is cast under the law of hazard. A people which finds itself living in hazard, without guarantee, must fashion guarantees from other interests or die. The pre-eminent fashioners, of course, are the Ashkenazim which has made its host its environment of evolutionary adaptiveness, and developed guarantees in hyper-ethnocentricity, hyper-competitiveness and intelligence, among others. In the next layer, beneath the guarantee interests, I would place the bio-cultural promptings to adaptive life choices such as morality, custom and tradition, memory, religion. While these are not essential in the same immediate way that land and food and water are, their product of adaptive life choices certainly is. If the people become demoralised and forget their customs and traditions, or if the religion falls into disrepair and disuse, then the resultant maladaptiveness will adversely affect survival chances. Beneath this layer I can just about envisage a fourth consisting of the cultural goods such as education, law, technology and skill levels, art, a stable and effective power structure, wise leadership, a strong protective arm, and so on. And that’s about it. Can’t see anything that merits the name “interest” beyond that. Comments:2
Posted by Leon Haller on Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:52 | # Good summary, CC. The problem, however, is that the parasite is killing its host. Jewish parasitism only clearly works with a genetic European host. When we are gone, whither Jewry? 3
Posted by Captainchaos on Thu, 21 Apr 2011 11:41 | # Jewry, in their millenarian hubris, don’t believe they are destroying the genetic basis for a sound host but breeding the better helot class. That simple. Of course that’s fucking crazy, but we knew that about them already. 4
Posted by anon on Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:18 | # but breeding the better helot class. That simple. Of course that’s fucking crazy, but we knew that about them already. It isn’t “crazy”. It is consistent with power. What tyrant doesn’t wish for the most docile subjects? 5
Posted by Guessedworker on Thu, 21 Apr 2011 16:29 | # A question. Where would nationalism come in the order of interests, given our position. The fourth layer, where one would expect to find such a cultural artifact, or the third, where its life-giving qualities would certainly parallel religion or memory? 6
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Thu, 21 Apr 2011 18:09 | #
At this point in time, I think the late religion of Europe is exerting a maladaptive influence. I hope we can create a new myth for our people with the fortitude to save us. I’m personally attracted to the prospects of Esoteric Hitlerism, as laid out by Miguel Serrano. I would be thrilled to see the spirit of Wotan begin its emergence from the tomb of posthumous christianity by the time Hitler’s birthday falls on Ostara, which will occur in 2014. I concur with the sentiment of Flannery O’Connor, as expressed in Wise Blood: “Jesus is a trick on Niggers” 7
Posted by John on Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:23 | # “I’ve been working for the most part on Telegraph threads over the last several days,” Your exchanges there are often amusing and always interesting to me. Some links, please. 8
Posted by Graham_Lister on Thu, 21 Apr 2011 23:15 | # Gino Coutinho: Dutchman who makes Joey Barton look like Theo Walcott Gino Coutinho, goalkeeper of the Eredivisie club ADO Den Haag who, along with his girlfriend, was yesterday found guilty in a Dutch court of owning a major cannabis farm and, as if that was not enough, being involved in forgery and money laundering. The pair were sentenced to 12 months in prison, leaving Coutinho’s career in ruins and his club the task of finding a replacement keeper for their remaining three games of the season. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/apr/21/gino-coutinho-cannabis-farm-haag One would have to be smoking grass to think that this character is a ‘Dutchman’. 9
Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 22 Apr 2011 01:27 | # John, Some of the Cameron threads reached 2,000 comments, so you might have to search all day for my handles (cotewood and Nick Nightingale). But you might recognise some one or two folk who we hear from occasionally. The news-based threads I haven’t searched for, but some of the opinion ones are these: 10
Posted by Bill on Fri, 22 Apr 2011 09:32 | # GW @ 12.27 AM (above) 22.04.2011. I’ve just broken off reading your interchange on the Brendan O’Neill piece over at the DT. ‘The worst form of bigotry today is the liberal elite’s view of the working classes as a mongrel race of slothful drones’ 04/20/2011 10:34 Here GW comments….
I would opine this comment ranks among the most most important messages to get across to the unawakened masses. One of the major problems in awakening the masses (apart from access to a public voice) is the apparent refusal to believe they are being sold down the river by their own kind. Their instincts affirm to the pollster that immigration ranks alongside those of the economic situation for grave concern and yet they go off and vote for the people who are responsible. IOW’s they (people) cannot get their collective heads around the fact that their own politicians are /maybe responsible for their ‘concern’ over immigration. Until they recognise the fact they are being betrayed by their ‘own’ people will resistance gain any meaningful momentum. 11
Posted by Dirty Bull on Fri, 22 Apr 2011 09:36 | # You’re ‘Coteford’ aren’t you? Anyway a good and spirited correspondence - and I hope that some of the Telegraph blog’s untold thousands of readers learned something from the verbal cockfights in which ‘Coteford’ kicked out many a lefty eye and eviscerated a good few half-baked ‘liberal’ fools. 12
Posted by Bill on Fri, 22 Apr 2011 11:14 | # For most of my life post World War II, I have watched our media, (‘the BBC’) push the boundaries of received decency to where it is today, and is still pushing the envelope. Despite the efforts of the late household name Mary Whitehouse, whose persistent efforts over the years to bring this media war of onslaught of poo to Britain’s masses, failed conclusively. As I say, not for the want of trying. In line with the dumbing down of education the culture war waged by the media on the soul of the British people has won hands down. Game set and match to the metropolitan liberal elite. Of course, over the years also many books have been authored chronicling the demise of our deliberately destroyed way of life, some like the Mail’s Peter Hitchens have made a distinguished career pedalling this stuff and is still doing so. Does it never occur to the metropolitan liberal elite that the people Brendan O’neill is depicting in his piece - was wilfully created by them? 13
Posted by Leon Haller on Fri, 22 Apr 2011 11:40 | # This guy Serrano combines interesting observations with rank lunacy. Serrano: Hitlerism, as Otto Rahn would say, was Luciferian. Lucifer is the Morning Star. I am a Luciferian in the sense that Lucifer is the Morning Star, “the most beautiful light,” and the Morning Star is a God-Goddess Venus. It is more than a planet, it is a comet that stopped where it is now in order to remind the divine men of their own spiritual origin, and to show them the way to recover it. There on Venus, Adolf Hitler is now, together with the elite who managed to escape Earth at the end of the War. Contrary to misconceptions, Lucifer has nothing to do with “satanism,” which is manipulated by secret services such as the CIA, M-12, Intelligence Service and the Mossad, etc., in order to destroy the real spiritual current and the Archetype of Hitler. The real esotericism behind Hitler and the very small elite that surrounded him was an esoteric scientificism of other science and other technology as well. This was mainly based on the implosion principle, leading to the UFO’s and traveling between dimensions, with the absolute need to lose the war here, to gain in the parallel world, or better said, in another place-situation. Um, yeah. Rather makes one long for the brute atheist materialism of GW. It’s always amazing how much nonsense, in all directions, comes from those rejecting Christ. The problem is not Christianity per se. The historic faith has been polluted with the currents of liberalism. When Christians sound like liberals, including on racial matters, they are liberals, not Christians. WNs would do well to remember this, and not throw out the baby with the bathwater. The battle to save our race occurs within Christianity. 14
Posted by Wandrin on Fri, 22 Apr 2011 11:57 | #
Yes, good stuff. .
Seems right on first reading. .
A good take. Analyze how they attacked and that will give you an ordered list in reverse. .
If White people developed ideal-centric unity enforced by altruistic punishment because it made beneficial co-operation between non-kin easier in a hostile climate that *required* the optimal level of co-operation, then a side-effect of evolving the optimal level of co-operation would be making large-scale co-operation easier if and when technology advanced past the needs of simple survival. The environment and technology available to combat it would be the limiting factors on the scale of group co-operation that could be attempted. In reality kin-centric unity would always be there in the background as well. If the limiting factors were gradually decreased then the scale of extended group co-operation would gradually increase. This would lead to the maximum genetic distance within the extended group also increasing which in turn would lead to a reduction in the amount added by kin-centricity to total group cohesion. http://historymedren.about.com/library/atlas/natmapfrance1453.htm Brittany and Burgundy didn’t need nationalism but France did because Bretons and Burgundians weren’t genetically close enough. So as the scale of the group increases, maintaining the same level of group cohesion requires increasing amounts of ideal-based reinforcement. Nationalism makes an *ideal* out of kin-centricity that can be used to get the best of both worlds. Until WWI. However the true lesson of WWI and II is that ethno-nationalism is a prerequisite (not a guarantor) of peace because whatever other causes there were, part of it was the drive for self-determination among the nations in the various multi-ethnic empires. The non-genocidal element of the liberal-left - people like the social capital guy Puttnam - because they themselves are much more ideal-centric than ethno-centric than even the average White person, let alone the average non-white, saw and see the problem as ethno-centricity itself when the reality is ethno-centricity is both natural and unchangeable because it grows naturally out of kinship and extended families. The problem isn’t ethno-centricity it’s ethno-centricity without self-determination. Misunderstanding that allowed them to be led along the path of trying to erase ethno-centricity and nationalism by balkanizing everybody through immigration which, because ethno-centricity is natural and because non-whites are on average much more ethno-centric than Whites, is leading to the destruction of all. What they’re doing is recreating tribal dark-age Europe with Pakistanis and West Indians instead of Franks and Goths. . 15
Posted by Wandrin on Fri, 22 Apr 2011 12:13 | #
The genocidal element yes. The non-genocidal element are being manipulated. It’s what “Springer” style TV is for. .
Genocide requires subhumanizing the target. .
As an argument for the Puttnam types i think that’s spot on (and also completely true imo). .
Spot on. It seems impossible so they reject it despite the evidence. It’s like the Sherlock Holmes quote: “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” The average person has a hard time following that principle when the level of improbablity is too high. They seem to just blank it out instead. . 16
Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:27 | # Leon, What is of use in Christianity is what we as a race settled upon it. What we could not settle - an esoteric core - remains wanting, and what we did not create - its Judaic origin and form, albeit Judaism in the photographic negative, so to speak, whereby the gentile actually agrees to mend himself to get to the promised land - what we did not create remains quite meaningless for us. Of course, faith is a blind thing and does not know this. It has a disconcerting habit of aborting the critical facility and declaring for itself. One cannot reason with it. 17
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:49 | # Leon, I’m happy that you checked out the link to the Serrano interview. I’ll respond to a couple of your sentiments.
Not surprisingly, my take on GWs position is the inverse of yours. I’ve read his description of esoterism vs. exoterism and agree that unlike, for example Sufism, christianity lacks an esoteric core. This, in my opinion, accounts for the uni-dimensional quality of its dwindling adherents. On the other hand, when I have attempted to follow GWs ostensible “atheistic materialism” to its logical existential conclusions it has evaporated into etherialism. Subtly beautiful, but non-transportable, in my opinion. I have facetiously referred to it as The Royal Nonesuch. In order to thrive, I think we will need a mythical doctrine that provides both an inside and an outside. While fanciful on its surface, the metaphor of the Hollow Earth is a good example of an esoteric conveyance meeting both criteria.
This suggests to me is that we have a critical need for nonsense in our collective life. Christianity hasn’t failed us because it is nonsense. I fails us because it is MALADAPTIVE nonsense. I’m not sure this was always true of Christianity, but I think it is true of christianity now. “It’s unwise to put new wine in old skin”. 18
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Fri, 22 Apr 2011 21:37 | # Leon, Given the fact that Christians and Esoteric Hitlerists are seen as one and the same in the eyes of Yahweh, it only makes sense to give the Devil his due. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JA6vRC1xW_c 19
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Sat, 23 Apr 2011 05:22 | # Jews in crisis. Please send christian cannon fodder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=h7i9ISMKXSA 20
Posted by Leon Haller on Sat, 23 Apr 2011 13:22 | # GW + Jimmy Marr, I’d like to respond to you at some length, but it’s very late here, and I’m tired. So, I merely ask if you agree that there are several separate issues for those interested in the relation of WN and Christianity within the context of preventing white (and therefore, I believe, Western) extinction. And these are: 1) What is true (eg, does God exist? If so, which religion, if any, is correct? If Christianity, which school or version? And does this correct faith disallow the measures necessary to ensure white preservation)? 2) If all forms of supernaturalism are empirically false, should WN acknowledge or proclaim this? Ie, is the objective of white preservation (and power) advanced by a) embracing atheism openly; b) trying to popularize a new, pro-white religion (Odinism, “esoteric Hitlerism”); or c) assuming the ‘truth’ of Christianity (the white man’s historic faith for, variously, 1500-1700 years, with an immense body of both tradition and learning behind it), and then demonstrating that faith’s ethical compatibility with WN? In a very small and oversimplified ‘nutshell’, my position is: A) God probably exists, and some version of Christianity (perhaps still to be theorized or at least solidified) is likely true. B) I want to be certain that WN is morally compatible with Christianity, which, I believe, it is, except in certain extreme versions, like Nazism. C) If all supernaturalism is false, white preservation is nevertheless best advanced not by aligning itself with atheism (especially not in America), nor by engaging in what I believe will prove to be a fruitless attempt to create a new (or resurrect an old) religion, but, rather, by continuing to profess allegiance to Christianity, while demonstrating the moral allowability, and even duty, of white preservation for Christians. In other words, even if I were a committed atheist, I would want to ‘get right’ the relation between Christianity and WN. 21
Posted by Captainchaos on Sat, 23 Apr 2011 13:45 | #
You cannot begin to fathom the depths of GW’s absolute hostility to that idea on whatever level you care to delve into it.
The point should be well taken that the various “layers” which make up a viably ethnocentric mode of life cannot be so neatly disentangled from one another (“breed out the faith gene”) as ordering them in “layers” implicitly suggests should be done. It is an academic exercise from a materialist-rationalist perspective, that is all. In fact, these “layers” are all parts indispensable which work together synergistically in maintaining the life of the group organism in no less a way than the various organs of an individual body do as such. (Feel free to carve that one in marble if you like.) 22
Posted by Captainchaos on Sat, 23 Apr 2011 14:06 | # Is the continued beating of the heart an interest of greater objective importance to the life of the body than the stomach’s continuous ability to digest food? How, precisely, could these be fitted into a hierarchy of interests to life? How could the continued life of the body from the perspective of its optimal functioning be said to be a higher interest than the synergistic functioning of its various components when it is the synergistic functioning of said body’s various components that are functionally synonymous with said body’s continued life? 23
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Sun, 24 Apr 2011 15:11 | # Sorry for the late response, Leon. I didn’t see your comment until just now. I think the issue of God’s existence is unresolvable by discursive means. It ultimately creates paradox, which to me is a form of affirmation. Who was that famous guy who essentially said, “to deny God’s existence is to prove it”? Whoever he was, I agree with him, and cite GW as the living proof. It’s as if God’s existence can never be accurately articulated, but nevertheless it’s man’s job to try. That effort, as I see it, is essentially artistic. For this reason, the task is never ending. In my opinion, Christianity was as true as any religion could be. It was obviously the most attractive to White people of that age. It’s certainly good when used as guideline for how the members of an insular society should relate to each other internally. It is a death wish when applied to today’s global community. We need a new myth. GW, kicking and screaming, is at the forefront of its creation. 24
Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 24 Apr 2011 15:52 | # Jimmy, I keep on coming back to this problem of whether we are embedded in a sea of divine being, and we only need to exchange our existential denial to affirmation to be able to seek its reality (this is the faith position, I assert) or whether being is simply “what Life does” ... its true product, as power is the product of a running engine. Ours is the power to be and to continue to be in defiance of Time /Entropy. A better analogy might be a great choir in which particularism attends the sound of each voice. Under certain circumstance we can cease listening to our own voice and hear parts of the whole. Under such conditions, for example, we can hear the African timbre of the singer standing close by, but we cannot be that singer. This is the difference - the surrender of the surrender to universalism - between being as the ground of identity and being as relation to identity, and I find it compelling intellectually and in other ways. That said, there is no doubt that the mind has a natural tendency to go to “ground”, a tendency present in everyone, I would say, and not just faithists. But given that the mind also has a perfectly natural aversion to effort and so none of this is really understood, if you understand what I mean, I don’t see why that tendency should imply anything for truth. 25
Posted by danielj on Mon, 25 Apr 2011 01:50 | # Jimmy, This seems a perfectly apt time to ride my hobby horse. However, I’ll just recommend two solid thinkers on the subject: Van Til’s Apologetic which is written by one excellent thinker about another. 26
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Mon, 25 Apr 2011 05:36 | # Danielj, The advantage of you riding your hobby horse is that I don’t have to pay for it, or store it. Collected Works of John Frame, by contrast is $90. I’ll put Van Til on my wish list. There is a book by a traditional Catholic author, Nick SomethingorOther, which was reviewed at CounterCurrents, which I’ve been thinking about buying. Columbine Pilgrim I don’t want to buy any books for a while. I’ve got WAY too many laying around half read. In particular Raciology is rather large. The Forced War is a big one too. The thing that you don’t know about me is that I was, (am) the librarian for Pacifica Forum, and I have responsibility for housing a massive number of donated books and periodicals. Many, maybe even most, are probably very good, but I will never be able to read them all. It’s a weird feeling for me. I didn’t grow up around books. 27
Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:46 | # Jimmy: We need a new myth. A question, again. Where would nationalism come in the order of interests, given our position? The fourth layer, where one would expect to find such a cultural artifact, or the third, where its life-giving qualities would certainly parallel religion or memory? 28
Posted by Leon Haller on Mon, 25 Apr 2011 12:17 | # I think we are all talking at cross purposes. Does God exist? If so, what does that imply for white survival? If not, what does that imply? I’m not a scholar of comparative religion, but from what I’ve heard from persons who are so knowledgeable, and whom I trust politically, it’s pretty much Christianity or nothing. That is, really (philosophically) intelligent persons can be Christians, but not members of other faiths (though I have heard strange things about Buddhism’s appeal - but it is sort of a non-religious religion). So if you do not believe in the divinity of Christ, then you are an agnostic or atheist materialist (unless you’re ignorant or stupid). My belief is that, whatever the factual truth of Christianity might be, embracing and coopting Christianity for WN (assuming it can be done, at least to a moderate extent, as I believe it can be - after all, Christians for centuries were racists by the standards of today’s liberals) is the best approach for saving our race. If WN and Christianity continue to be seen to be mutually antagonistic, I think WN will continue to be marginal in the West. Moreover, I believe that only a re-Christianized West (but “Christianized” along traditionalist, not postmodernist, lines) will succeed in rallying sufficient numbers of white men to prevent our racial extinction. Atheism simply does not stir men’s souls to sacrifice and battle to the same extent as Christian duty. And the situation today is even worse. We are dying not by alien force of arms, but through apathy and excessive materialism and consumerism. Few whites want to sacrifice present comforts for the future well-being of their (dwindling number of) descendants. How is the atheist going to get whites to make those sacrifices? Only appeals to personal transcendence, to making the preservation of the white race a personal moral obligation rooted in religious piety, will suffice. Religion gives martyrs; will atheist racism? 30
Posted by Randy Garver on Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:46 | # Leon Haller:
That’s a rather weak and circumstantial argument. The Catholic Church and its mandarins also sold indulgences (among other perfidities), but that shouldn’t imply that such a practice is an inherent part of the religion. Leon Haller:
A man of superior erudition such as yourself should welcome contrarian viewpoints as an opportunity to argue your greater truths before the court of opinion. Your apparent lack of gratitude for this service is a bit surprising. Ardbeg Uigeadail will be accepted as an offer of amends. 31
Posted by CS on Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:03 | # When I discovered Christian Identity, it explained for me why the Jews seem to have an irriational hatred of Europeans. In case you haven’t seen anything like this before, check this out Leon. 32
Posted by Wandrin on Mon, 25 Apr 2011 16:24 | #
The thing is they’re not because even if the supernaturalism itself is empirically false the effects are real. For example, if you are superstitiious / religious and you believe in your lucky rabbit’s foot / Lord’s Prayer, and you’re in a life-threatening situation where you’re on the edge of panicking then holding onto your rabbit’s foot / reciting the Lord’s prayer can physically calm you down and stop you panicking. Say for the sake of argument it’s all self-induced placebo and completely irrational it is still beneficial, particularly in the most life-threatening situations (no atheists in a foxhole) and if something is irrational but beneficial then beneficial forms of irrationality will be selected for. So in a nutshell, even if the faith gene could be bred out i believe it would grow back. Oddly enough even though i now believe it’s all some chemical or other i can still do it. I am religious enough by nature to be able to use the Lord’s Prayer to get this effect even though my God now is really the blood god. My supernatural friend is the force that created my abiltity to produce a helpful chemical at times of danger. So… the faith gene should be actively courted and used imo. The form is debatable although i think it should be tailored to our nature.
Thinking of it more i’d say the second - a guarantor. You can’t survive as an individual against hostile groups. You can only survive as a group. If you move beyond the level of closely related clans then you need a myth of kinship. You can have an abundance of food and water but without nationalism as the prime guarantor then it will be taken away from you. If you have nationalism and no food and water you can take it off someone else. 33
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:14 | # GW, You’ve accurately quoted me as saying “We need a new myth”. It would have been more correct if I had written “I need a new myth”. It is yet more accurate for me to say that “I have a new myth”. For me to stand by my original statement “We need a new myth”, while internally feeling “I have a new myth” is condescending. It’s a thinly disguised way of saying “You guys need what I’ve got”. That’s bullshit. I don’t really feel that way. Serrano’s ideas on Esoteric Hitlerism have had a liberating effect on me in this respect. I no longer feel compelled to unify nationalist efforts. I’ve largely accepted the defeat of this strategy. As you have previously suggested, collectivism is a Judaic strategy. The Aryan aesthetic is toward individualism. To make our success contingent on the collective effort of individualists is to court defeat. And yet this is precisely what we do. Someone, perhaps Sam Francis, once described us a beautiful losers. Serrano sees Hitler as the harbinger of Aryan defeat on the earthly plane, and posits this as having a celestial, contra-positive, other-worldly success in what he calls The Reich of the Black Sun, or Hollow Earth. I find that such considerations have a strong psychological impact on me. Its as if, by accepting defeat, I become invincible; Born again; A sort of dead man walking. I’m no longer fighting because I think individualists will ever score a sustained collective victory over collectivists. I’m fighting because I was born to fight. A paradox comes into play because my enemy forbids my collaboration with other fighters of my type. What will happen? You’ve expressed fear that NS might be necessary for our survival, but would be a heavy burden and long term mistake. I’m beginning to suspect that any collectivist mass movement among inherent individualists would quickly disperse when the conditions of its inception were overturned. Heil Hitler 35
Posted by anon on Mon, 25 Apr 2011 23:48 | # Atheism simply does not stir men’s souls to sacrifice and battle to the same extent as Christian duty. It might be able—if we could overcome Christianity. National Socialism almost did. Soviet Russia certainly did. Iranians rushed headlong to their doom against a US-armed Iraq for the Ayatollah, not “Allah”. Give men an Ayatollah in whom to believe and they will leave “God” in the dust. The Soviet Tajiks fought their Moscow-dominated brethren not for reward of heaven, but for representation in the national consensus. The atheist in the foxhole is every bit as concerned that his patch of earth be cleansed of the enemy as the believer, and more honestly. Atheism racialism will not field martyrs because there is no field for martyrdom. If there were, I believe most here would give life and limb in a proper fight against the enemies of our existence. But because a proper fight is impossible, we are here analyzing what went and continues to go wrong, and crafting a rhetoric of opposition—precisely what our enemy did in the midst of us. I arrived at “esoteric Hitlerism” without reading Serrano. One does feel like walking dead, or a ghost. Allegiance to failed projects will do that to one. As for “black sun"s and all that, rubbish. How is the atheist going to get whites to make those sacrifices? Only appeals to personal transcendence, to making the preservation of the white race a personal moral obligation rooted in religious piety, will suffice. No it won’t. Those days are gone. Moralities and religions are not made by fiat or deliberation. No lower animal propagates by religious injunction, and neither does man. 36
Posted by Wandrin on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 01:54 | #
I think that’s true. When a nation has an external deadly threat the natural expression for its collective defense is an army with an army-like form. This is a form everyone knows about and understands. When a nation has an internal deadly threat the same instiincts kick in and people’s first thoughts are towards a political form that mirrors the military form. To me that’s all Fascism really is - a military form applied to a political body. Now i’m not fascistically inclined at all by nature but i could live with it if it worked because i don’t believe it would last because, with the possible exception of war, i don’t believe it’s the most efficient form for inherent individualists and i believe White people left to their own devices will always strive towards the most efficient form regardless of how many blind alleys they go into along the way. However there is a practical problem with fascism and the fascist form becasue of the trillions of dollars that have gone into conditioning white people to automatically react against it. This conditioning will break down in a time of crisis but that might be too late. It seems to me this has led to two standard nationalist forms That’s one debate. Another debate could be had over whether military-style political Fascism was the most efficient form even in the 1930s or was it chosen simply because it was the first that came to mind? If it’s not a true form for inherent individualists, even for political warfare, but more of a temporary compromise form with the great advantage of being easily understood then maybe there’s a better alternative? If there is a better alternative i think the blueprint will also be found in military thinking - the political equivalent of Auftragstaktik or an army without orders. http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Auftragstaktik In practical terms i think that means instead of a political form based on a conventional military form you’d have a political form that was more like a guerrilla military form. You’d still have a HQ with a leader, a brand and various high level functions e.g media training, but the regions and branches would have more of an autonomous cell structure affiliated with the national brand (and able to unaffilliate or be unaffilliated as needed). If the real essence of Whiteness is the capacity for almost limitless co-operation across ethnic boundaries towards a common goal then maybe a more distributed network form makes more sense? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_computing If you defined nationalism as an explicit understanding of one’s state of being as part of this distributed genetic network then that understanding would automatically lead to political Auftragstaktik imo. Looking at things in those terms you could see Fascism as a kind of lower level implicit understanding that required the reinforcement of a known form, of a known expression of that implicit understanding i.e a national army. Or a bit of both. In WWI German military doctrine the principle was applied to general officers whereas in WWII it was pushed down to squad leaders. 37
Posted by Ivan on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 02:07 | #
This is an attempt at lowbrow flattery. I am surprised GW swallowed the cheap hook.
After this beautiful poetic ... nonsense, Marred Jimmy ends up shouting:
which leaves one with mixed emotions and state of confusion: what’s the most appropriate reaction here - inconsolable sobbing or hysterical laughter? A grown American man shouting Heil Hitler ? I don’t know - there is something ineffably pathetic about it. Don’t get me wrong, folks, I’m not saying shouting Heil Hitler couldn’t have any utility value at all. For example, this woman hardly could express the depth of the contempt she felt for the ugly hairless kike any better than she did simply by shouting Heil Hitler in his face and watching calmly how the poor bastard goes nuts: 38
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 03:16 | #
If I’m not mistaken I read something of yours, (Wandrin), which I really liked, just the other day that effectively suggested that the same “trillions of dollars” may ultimately work as reverse propaganda for WNs at some point in the future. All the lies and slander form an invaluable body of negative psychological conditioning. I don’t totally understand the theory of negative conditioning, but the idea I get is that the stimulus can eventually provoke the opposite of the originally conditioned response. I sometimes think of our enemies campaign against us as a slow, but powerful drawing back of a gigantic archer’s bow. The problem for our enemy may encounter is that he was standing on the receiving end while loaded up its potency for a blitzkrieg backlash. 39
Posted by Captainchaos on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 03:55 | #
It is certainly not inevitable that were Whites to mobilize en masse to resist their dispossession that the only political outcome would be fascism. If Whites did not mobilize as fascists to fight for a fascist political dispensation then it is highly probable that the political end-result would not be a fascist one. To put it another way, embracing fascism is not a necessary condition for mobilizing Whites en masse. That being the case, it would seem that embracing fascism would be a matter of personal preference and not utter necessity. 40
Posted by Wandrin on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 04:18 | #
The holocaust thing is a bit different because there you are comparing the trillion-dollar edifice they created as a memorial to their dead with the zero-dollar actively denied non-memorial to the non-Jewish dead of the Bolshevik holocaust. You’re not contesting their propaganda *directly*. You’re doing it indirectly by taking their version at face value and then comparing it with the non-memorial to the bolshevik holocaust. You keep doing this until you’ve undermined their moral authority enough to allow you to contest other things e.g historical revisionism, directly. I hadn’t actually thought about that aspect in this context but yes now you mention it the other thing they spent trillions on was demonizing various forms and symbols so if their moral authority falls then as well as making revisionism easier / feasible all the trillions they spent demonizing x or y would then work in reverse and have the same effect as advertising. I’d always thought that could happen in an economic collapse type context because in that kind of crisis the moral authority of the previous regime more or less automatically collapses also and i so i thought people would be likely to automatically go for the demonized form, or at least the symbols of that form e.g crowds of mass unemployed Ukrainians and crowds of mass unemployed Argentinians both waving a mixture of Swastika and Confederate flags, because those forms have been built up so much, however i also thought that was likely to be too late. 41
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 05:50 | #
Perhaps so, but as a closing salutation in a communication to comrades, it seems to have been used by at least one “grown American man”. 42
Posted by Ivan on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 06:51 | # Yes, Jimmy, unlike some Americans of retirement age, Dr William Pierce has grown up immensely since 1970, when he was a 37 years old young man. Otherwise he would be probably still using it as a closing salutation in a communication to comrades in the organization he created himself. I doubt even that much. My best guess is: that childish salute was something that was adopted, and possibly enforced, by the party boss George L. Rockwell. 43
Posted by Captainchaos on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 07:43 | #
You are not actually a Piercean, Ivan. That is but a bit of protective coloration which you affect. Btw, you will not find a proper bedfellow in Silver who has stated his own extreme distaste for Muslims in that he would willingly carve one up with a knife. Silver is an extremely hate-filled individual. 44
Posted by Bill on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:29 | # An interesting piece in the Telegraph today 26.04.2011. WikiLeaks: leaked files accuse BBC of being part of a ‘possible propaganda media network’ The BBC have been setting us up for the chop for the past 50 years, talk about the long march through the institutions.
Some of the commenters seem to have the right grasp. Terry.Yesterday 11:48 PM
45
Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:38 | # Ivan: I am surprised GW swallowed the cheap hook. I haven’t swallowed anything. My position is that mystification/mythification will follow successful action, not precede it or provoke it. The trial of reclamation and of the accomplishment of the fourteen words will become our myth. This is an issue over which I had a spat with O’Meara a couple of years ago when he was awarded the ToQ essay prize for saying, basically, that America needs a new heroic myth to trigger movement. That isn’t how it works. No one, not a philosopher, not an author or screenwriter, no one can write a myth to change history. The Holocaust proves it. Even after the vast effort - 250+ holofilms, “museums” everywhere, constant press articles and TV stories - despite all that going on in every Western country, yet the Jew is not sanctified and loved, Israel is not respected, and the civilised world is moving not towards Olam Ha-ba and the end of the ages but a low-IQ hell. Myths are organic and arise consensually in the generations, not from a Jew with a laptop or anybody else. Anon (answering Leon): Moralities and religions are not made by fiat or deliberation. No lower animal propagates by religious injunction, and neither does man. Wholly true with regard to religions. Yet faith exists where it exists - both as faith in the existence of the divine principle and of other (mostly political) placebos, and the second is not better than the first. 46
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 18:45 | #
Here we agree, with the exception of the word “successful”. I don’t consider Jesus’ story to be one of success any more than Hitler’s, but that didn’t stop it from growing legs, although it took a couple hundred years for it to do so. I see similar prospects in a Hitler religion. If the polarity of cultural resources that have invested in his vilification are ever reversed, we will have a God on our hands whether we like it or not, which is why I said GW will be kicking and screaming at the forefront, (kicking and screaming in protest, Ivan, not like a cheerleader). I’ll make no comment regarding anyone’s relative position if we continue moving in the direction of a “low I.Q. hell”. 47
Posted by anon on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 20:57 | # I see similar prospects in a Hitler religion.—Marr According to Avdeyev, there is a good reason why so many contemporary Russian nationalists worship Adolf Hitler. They are possessed by the spirits of fallen Wehrmacht and SS soldiers!—von Hoffmeister 48
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:09 | # Most responses I have seen to my link to Esoteric Hitlerism have been divided into two general categories: 1) speculation about the future viability of fascism as a WN methodology. 2) Classification of the supernatural aspects as nonsensical rubbish. My response to the first category is that I don’t have a strong opinion about the future viability of fascism except to say that it falls in the realm of exoteric Hitlerism rather than Esoteric Hitlerism. My response to the second category is almost total agreement. The supernatural aspects of the myth are largely nonsensical rubbish. In fact, these aspects are so much like rubbish that they can actually serve as the cultural equivalent of Rorschach inkblots. A canvas awaiting the projection of the collective unconscious of the White race. They mean nothing until the imagination provides an interpretative cognition. Since the exoteric meaning of Hitlerism has been exclusively associated with White racism, the Rorschach value of the inkblots is now the exclusive domain of collective White projection, (i.e. it is race specific). It’s certainly no accident the Serrano incorporates Jungian theory into the myths. He has painstakingly hidden a myriad of half-true fragments from other myth systems and ancient religions into this nascent religion. He has possibly provided us with a means of torturing other moral systems, even including the possibility of subverting christian notion of resurrection into a new race-positive religion. I see examples of a similar subversion in Christianity which subverted European pagan forms and distorted them until they were deformed enough to fit onto a Judaic foundation. Turnabout is fairly in my book. An eye for an eye; a tooth for tooth. Heil Hitler! 49
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:45 | #
I see that Avdeyev has a section devoted to “The Psychopathology of Monotheism” as well. It’s toward the end of Raciology and I haven’t gotten to it yet. 50
Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:40 | # Jimmy, It’s going to take a long and extremely uncertain hike across the slough of native irony: ... for anyone awanting to worship Adolf in good old Blighty. But, if you could find in that library of yours some dusty and obscure but by no means speculative or magickal or just plain dumb dissertations on the nature of the Old Faith, now that would be interesting. Most interesting of all would be to see not merely what our evolved European beliefs actually looked like, but how they fitted and expressed the nature of the people. Out of that nature, and only out of that, can come deep myth or (exoteric) religion. We will make it again, as in time we re-made Christianity not in the dogma but in the worn flagstone floors of our ancient churches and the rain-scoured, greyed gravestones that stand and lie in the coarse, springy grass outside. There is our spirituality and our memory and our love for all we are. It is never far away, never lost for ever. But it comes as a claim in common after the act of greatness, be it an act for the good or for evil, and not before. 51
Posted by Ivan on Wed, 27 Apr 2011 01:59 | #
Well, I don’t know, CC, if you give me your definition of Piercean, I’ll tell you whether I am or not. Dr Pierce and William Simpson, in my opinion, were two of the most serious and deepest racist thinkers (not of academic, but more down-to-earth type) after Hitler, who not only understood from inside out the real cause of white peoples predicament, but also have devoted their lives to doing something about it. I feel affinity with the way Dr Pierce perceived things, the way he analyzed what was happening in the world. I miss his insights more than anybody else’s today. 52
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Wed, 27 Apr 2011 04:11 | #
In my opinion, this message is not coded in words, but on the molecular arrangement of DNA. My quest is to investigate means of eliciting it. I’m looking at the Rorschach of Esoteric Hitlerism as a potential means of accessing it. This interest was initially expressed through the study of various meditation techniques, which ultimately converged on the longtime practice of zazen, which is unsurprisingly characterized as a technique for discovering one’s “True Nature”. As crazy as it sounds, I had to sit for two decades to actively express Whiteness, and even then I resisted. It’s was very weird, I spent quite a bit of time in Zendos, surrounded by White people, squinting at the walls, and unconsciously expecting to wake up Asian, and begin writing a Haikus. Instead, I woke up White, started writing Limericks and exchanged the Sangha for White Nationalism. It was all quite surprising to me. There is a Zen saying: Polishing a tile will not make it a mirror. I finally got message. Who’da thunk? Anyway, that’s the way I came to my racial awakening. It seems quite unusual to me, and so I am inclined to investigate other unlikely vehicles, particularly if they combine elements eastern systems, which Esoteric Hitlerism does. A western, (Jungian), approach to Esoteric Hitlerism would be to interpret its mythology as if it were a dream analysis, and discover a method of communicating with other White people in that modality. 53
Posted by anon on Wed, 27 Apr 2011 08:41 | # A western, (Jungian), approach to Esoteric Hitlerism would be to interpret its mythology as if it were a dream analysis, and discover a method of communicating with other White people in that modality. You may be right: for nothing makes Western women go gooier than flattering dream-speak. Hence the popularity of Jung. 54
Posted by anon on Wed, 27 Apr 2011 09:25 | # On the other hand, what would be pragmatic would be if we could emulate our competition’s successful alchemy-like talent for magically transforming their drab-grey narrow ethnic self-interests into shiny, new, irresistable universal moral imperatives. The blood-and-guts realistic view of our zombie apocalypse future that we see rapidly approaching like a tsunami, like the current excellent video on the front page, may stir the hearts and minds of many of us here, but unfortunately remains simply unpalatable to the majority of our somnambulating brethren. Perhaps if we offered “Fries with that?” or put lipstick on it somehow… http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2011/04/the-“west”-should-be-forgotten/ 55
Posted by Wandrin on Wed, 27 Apr 2011 14:24 | # I was talking upthread about Fascism as politics adopting a military form as a combination of a natural reaction to people feeling they were in a war (but against an internal political threat instead of an external military one) and them having a pre-existing knowledge and understanding of the military form: general at the top, heirarchical, authoritarian etc. I was wondering if there might be a more efficient alternative form, also derived from military thinking, i.e the political equivalent of Auftragstaktik or an army without orders. http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Auftragstaktik I couldn’t think of a good example at the time but the obvious one is Ron Paul
from http://www.alternativeright.com/main/blogs/district-of-corruption/the-revolution-2.0/ (I’m not arguing about Ron Paul as a candidate here, simply the form of organisation as a political example of Auftragstaktik.) 56
Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 27 Apr 2011 14:56 | # anon: nothing makes Western women go gooier than flattering dream-speak. Hence the popularity of Jung. Gooey women or no gooey women (it had never occurred to me that Carl-baby was a sex object), the too-too-solid fact remains that Analytic Psychology is filled with teleological nonsense and folk silliness: 57
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:58 | # Wandrin, I looked at the ARRSE link, and see the relevance. Thanks. GW, Thanks for the Jung link. I’ll have to read through that thread when I have more time. That may not be today. 58
Posted by Wandrin on Wed, 27 Apr 2011 20:26 | # Jimmy Marr, Good. That word was itching at me for years and i think it’s relevance for politics is why it did. It’s like if you’ve ever seen really good special forces operating. It’s nothing to do with muscles or rambo bandanas or any of that nonsense. They have an almost psychic level of co-operation. 59
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Wed, 27 Apr 2011 21:55 | #
I intentionally avoided mentioning my instinctive affinity for the word “Auftragstaktik”. If the idea had taken another form, I might never have pursued the link. I’ll offer one short link on the possibility of expressing racial qualities through sound before returning to my chanter. 60
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:35 | # GW, I read through the thread about Carl Jung and how the New Right hates science. I didn’t find it very interesting. I couldn’t really figure out what the argument was about. I did get the idea that maybe your opponents, Troy and Gwendolyn thought there was some scientific or empirical validity to Jungian theory, whereas you feel it is “teleological nonsense and folk silliness”. I tend to agree with you in this assertion. You feel that a “collective unconscious” does not exist. That’s fine with me. The question that I enjoy contemplating is this: If it did exist, what would it look like? Would it be the same from folk to folk?
Yes. Europeans took a desert religion, in which heaven and earth were eternally alienated, and celebrated it by building cathedrals with spires penetrating the sky. Why does projecting Hitler’s moustache onto the face of Christ strike you as an overwhelming task? 62
Posted by anon on Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:05 | # fact remains that Analytic Psychology is filled with teleological nonsense and folk silliness Hence it’s popularity among women and quasi-WNs, is what I meant. I believe they’ve almost taken their cue here from Jews in that it was the circle around Freud who demonized Jung as a crypto-Aryanist, which he was not. (A bourgeois Swiss in the tradition of Amiel, Senancour, Rousseau and Nietzsche [sic], he was.) This stemmed not from marginal relations with the NSDAP but from the initial break with Freud over the centrality of libido and Freud’s opposition of mysticism and the occult. 63
Posted by Jimmy Marr on Thu, 28 Apr 2011 17:47 | #
64
Posted by Leon Haller on Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:55 | # “Thinking” about women is generally frustrating… Accepting them for what they are is more gratifying ... Post a comment:
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Posted by Captainchaos on Thu, 21 Apr 2011 09:54 | #
Not incidentally, in the course of the twentieth century and beyond the Jews have mounted their attack first against proximate interests so as to soften up the host to an eventual assault against the host’s ultimate interests. First the Frankfurt School critique of Western tradition to dissolve the host’s protective armor. (The Krauts had other ideas, but were burned, tortured, starved and the ethnically cleansed into submission by the morally superior Allies who fought consonant with Jewish interests.) Then the push for the normalization of mongrelization around the periphery so as to blur the distinctive identity of the European host still more. Finally, the realization of race replacement mass immigration approaching the point where by sheer dint of numbers Europeans will no longer have the power, indeed the means, to secure their own existence and any robust effort to continue as a genetically distinct people can and will be snuffed out. The ordering of the Jewish assault is quite telling.