JW on van den Berghe on Salter In May 2005 a generally good review of Frank Salter’s On Genetic Interests appeared here. It is by Pierre van den Berghe, the Congolese-born Belgian sociologist who coined the term, ethnic nepotism. I hope that the following reproduction of that review will interest and inform MR readers. It is interspersed with a brief commentary by JW.
Of course, appeal to authority is not a logical argument. But it is encouraging that guys like van den Berghe and E.O.Wilson have commented favorably on Salter’s work and have not, for example, compared it to Jack D Ripper ranting about “precious bodily fluids” in the movie Dr. Strangelove
This is a wonderfully succinct explanation of the relative nature of genetic interests. Note the word “extra” in “extra shared genes”. Thus, it is not overall similarity and copies of genes that are the issue but the distinctive genetic information, over and above (“extra”) random, common gene sharing. And, equally clear: “Relatedness is always relative to others with whom we compete for scarce resources.” And then there is van den Berghe’s stark challenge: “Show me a society where parents routinely think their neighbours’ children are 99.9 per cent as good as their own, and allocate their bounty according to this fine principle.”
Democracy though is a fraud and the easiest and most hypocritical way for parasitic elites to manipulate the masses in a way so that the masses won’t even recognize they are being manipulated. There is nothing magical or special about “liberal democracy”, except for its capacity to induce delusions.
How then to reverse the trend? The nation state, with its power, got us into the trouble we are in. Anarchism cannot reverse the trends. We’ll need the collective power of the nation state, I think, to leverage the powers we need to obtain the ethnostate. Haven’t anarchists historically used violence to further their goals as well? Van den Berghe should know better; there is no stateless utopia on the horizen. Those who give up the state will be swallowed up by those who do not; one does not expect the Chinese to adopt stateless “anarchism.”
I think van den Berghe is missing the point here: Salter acknowledges that people may behave maladaptively, his work is however prescriptive and not descriptive. In fact, it is the relative lack of interest in fitness amongst whites which is why Salter’s work is necessary to begin with.
This sums up the David B “who cares; life has no interests” mindset quite nicely, and dovetails with Birch Barlow’s “I’ll mate with Asians if I feel like it” mantra as well. Of course, people and peoples who believe in such a nihilistic fashion will be replaced by those who are more healthily ethnocentric and kinship-oriented. Comments:2
Posted by Desmond Jones on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:52 | # Democracy though is a fraud and the easiest and most hypocritical way for parasitic elites to manipulate the masses in a way so that the masses won’t even recognize they are being manipulated. Is this really true though? Did not Napoleon simply announce the emancipation of the Jews because
Despot, monarch, democrat, what difference does it really make? Is it not simply an evolutionary principle that some will succeed where others do not and will act adaptively, whether through slavery, apartheid, emancipation or mass migration, to enhance their fitness? What prescription will be used to stop elites acting adaptively or forming institutions that will enhance their fitness? Even the Jewish elites have jettisoned the farmer and the labourer if they did not possess the intellectual capacity to advance the elite group. Charles Murray writes,
Elites adopt strategies that are adaptive even if it means a reduction in the total size of the ethny. 3
Posted by The putrid stench of gnxp on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:43 | # “Elites adopt strategies that are adaptive even if it means a reduction in the total size of the ethny.” It would seem to me rather short-sighted for white elites to boost their narrow, short-term fitness in ways that endangers their entire ethny, thus resulting in a real, substantial loss in long-term fitness. This goes back to van den Berghe’s comments about maladaptive behaviors as well as Salter’s concerns about “short-term thinking.” White elites are not acting in a manner you suggest that the ancient Jewish elites did - sacrificing quantity for quality. They are instead following their own selfish interests at the expense of the group. In the case of the Jews, you could argue that the “aim” was to create a “stronger Jewish community.” The aim of white elite globalists - who identify with their elite globalist class and not as whites - is to enrich themselves and empower their trans-racial globalist caste, at the expense of white interests. One cannot as well equate diaspora strategies with majoritarian strategies. The Jews were never going to approach being a majority in their diaspora host nations, which gives them a different perspective - how to enhance Jewish competitiveness and survival as a diaspora minority - than whites who would wish to retain their control over the homelands. 4
Posted by The putrid stench of gnxp on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:59 | # More Razib: “Some of you may know that I’ve been interested in the levels of selection debate: to me the universality of the psychological propensity toward love is a strong argument for the power of within group selection as opposed to between group selection.” Of course, it is not an argument for anything of the sort. More wishful thinking. Which leads us again to the question unanswered by the “braintrust” here - why is gnxp linked to from MR as a “science” blog? 5
Posted by The putrid stench of gnxp on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:51 | # A topic not unrelated to the question of gnxp: http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/04/adopt_our_baby.php After all, let’s delegitimize the EGI concept, as well as group selection (regardless of what guys like EO Wilson and van den Berghe think of the former, and what even the execrable Diamond must admit about the latter) - how can we better convince the British peoples to accept this expansion of South Asian genetic information into the UK. 6
Posted by The putrid stench of gnxp on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:54 | # A direct quote from Popper Jr. from a gnxp comments thread: “vic, my younger sibs are definitely more well versed in that brown shit….” Very ‘scientific’ 7
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:43 | # Most of the comments in the thread underneath that Amren article hit the nail squarely on the head. 8
Posted by The putrid stench of gnxp on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:31 | # I agree Fred, and my favorite is here: “China has a surplus of males,they are the ones India should be calling on” Indeed! Why not? Aren’t they all “asian cogntive elitists?” Why shouldn’t surplus South Asian females be used to alleviate the mate shortage for Chinese males? Fat chance of that happening though, isn’t it? 9
Posted by The putrid stench of gnxp on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:47 | # “Of course, “ostensible” is the operative word…” Gnxp is nothing more or less a vehicle for promoting the genetic interests of its founders. They have been able to leverage their extended phenotypes (i.e., the white participants at that blog) to make headway - and, unfortunately, labeling that blog as a “science” blog is contributing to that mission. Yann’s blog is a science blog. Even the blog of Hawks, whom I despise, can be reasonably considered a science blog. Gnxp is not. 10
Posted by The putrid stench of gnxp on Wed, 11 Apr 2007 00:24 | # “I love how they take the rhetorical questions like, “would it be okay with you if India was flooded with Chinamen” and run with them as if that’s anything other than a fig leaf.” If I’m not mistaken, Jason Soon made similar comments about his ancestral homeland of China… It’s real easy to state that you are for “X,Y,Z” when you _know_ that X,Y,Z will NEVER happen, and that your ostensible acceptance of X,Y,Z may convince others to accept scenarios that will boost your fitness - and at their expense. Well, we do admit that Asians are intelligent, so they know how to play that game. Too bad they find so many extended phenotypes who fall for it. Once again: gnxp is not a science blog, and does not belong linked to as such. 11
Posted by ben tillman on Wed, 11 Apr 2007 01:14 | # Some of you may know that I’ve been interested in the levels of selection debate: to me the universality of the psychological propensity toward love is a strong argument for the power of within group selection as opposed to between group selection. That doesn’t make sense on any level. No one argues that selection occurs only within or between groups. But the more fundamental insight of Wilson is that “individual” is a meaningless term. If you accept “individual” selection, you necessarily accept group selection—because all “individuals” are groups. It is proper to speak of organisms and groups of organisms. As for the gibberish about “a propensity toward love”, I have no idea what to say. 12
Posted by Sybach on Wed, 11 Apr 2007 04:05 | # Is ‘putrid stench of GNXP’ JWHolliday? I was wondering what happened to him, as I hadn’t seen him in a while. How come he’s not listed under ‘The Writers’ with Matt, Svigor, et. al? :( 13
Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:37 | # A gift of absent Bangladeshi ethnic genetic interest awaits the nasally fastidious one just to the left and a little down from this comment. 14
Posted by The putrid stench of gnxp on Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:37 | # “A gift of absent Bangladeshi ethnic genetic interest awaits the nasally fastidious one just to the left and a little down from this comment” Huh? What are you talking about? Post a comment:
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Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:08 | #
I still like Norman Lowell’s idea of “regionalism not nationalism” although I wouldn’t go so far as he in dismantling nationalism. My ideal? Let’s look at Germany as an example: Either of the set-ups prevailing in pre-Bismarck Germany: the Holy Roman Empire, ended by Bonaparte in 1806, or the loose Confederation of German states which replaced it starting with the Congress of Vienna and ending with Bismarck’s Kaiserreich, the latter eventually turning into an absolute disaster for Germany: a thousand years of Germany went up in smoke, taking a big chunk of the rest of the world with it. The old Austria-Hungary dual monarchy, on the other hand, wasn’t ideal because way too multi-ethnic. (The destructive multi-ethnicity of the Austrian Empire was what originally got Hitler fuming mad as he contemplated all sorts of ungerman encroachments on what had for a thousand years been German ethnic/linguistic/cultural hegemony over most of those lands.) Clearly, reforms of the franchise have to also be considered for any polity not to self-destruct, reforms such as GW’s longstanding idea of scrapping one-man-one-vote in favor of giving certain people’s votes more weight for whatever reason (married couple with kids, property owner, member of the place’s traditional race or religion, and so forth). If women are to have the right to enter the voting booth must be community protections and national protections in place in the form of a Bill of Rights which can’t be changed by any procedural mechanism whatsoever — can’t be changed, period, end of story — forbidding things like forced race-replacement and so on whether directly or by subterfuge, otherwise women voters will have the nation destroyed, absolutely pulverized into dust, quicker than you can say Barack-Obama-Teddy-Kennedy. Where political issues touching on communal or national preservation are concerned women are on the level of mental retards: where such issues are concerned, you might as well let mental retards into the voting booth as women.