Saudi and the West

Posted by Guessedworker on Tuesday, 06 February 2007 00:48.

The standing advice provided by the UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office for British travellers to Saudi Arabia includes the following:-

Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country in which Islamic law is strictly enforced. Islamic codes of behaviour and dress are also enforced rigorously. You should respect them fully.

Homosexual behaviour and adultery are illegal and can carry the death penalty.

The penalties for the possession of, or trade in, alcohol are severe. Both result in prison sentences. ... You should not arrive in Saudi Arabia under the influence of alcohol: the consequences could be serious.

... The Saudi legal system differs in many ways from the UK. Suspects can be held without charge and those detained have in the past not been allowed legal representation. The Saudi authorities have detained witnesses and victims of crimes. If you require consular assistance our staff will seek to visit you as soon as they are aware of the case. However, in some instances they have not been permitted to do so immediately or have had limits applied to access once granted. We have raised our concern about reports of mistreatment of some suspects during their detention.

Nowhere does the FO specifically state that Western men and women will be punished if they are caught dancing with one another in private. That, in the event, might turn out to have been something of an oversight:-

Saudi court sentences foreigners for drinking, dancing at mixed gender party

A Saudi Arabian court has convicted and sentenced 20 foreigners to receive lashes and spend several months in prison for attending a party where alcoholic drinks were served and men and women danced, a Saudi newspaper reported Sunday.

The kingdom’s religious police arrested 433 foreigners, including more than 240 women, for attending the “impudent” party in Jiddah, the state-guided newspaper Okaz reported. It did not identify the foreigners, give their nationalities or say when the party took place.

Judge Saud al-Boushi sentenced the 20 to three to four month in prison and ordered them to receive an unspecified number of lashes. They have the right to appeal, the newspaper said.

The prosecutor general charged the 20 with “drinking, arranging for impudent party, mixed dancing and shooting a video for the party,” Okaz said.

I suppose we shouldn’t feel too sorry for these people. If one is paid by some medieval desert piper one dances (or not, if one is in the vicinity of a female) to his ghastly quarter-toned cacophony. If you don’t like it - or you can’t stomach the Mohammedan moral rectitude - get yourself a job at home.

I’d prefer it if they all did exactly that. The jobs are becoming fewer anyway.

But just by coming home our happy wanderers won’t rid themselves entirely of Saudi influence. Wahhabism is steadily becoming a problem here, too. Remember this from just three weeks ago:-

Dispatches has investigated a number of mosques run by high profile national organisations that claim to be dedicated to moderation and dialogue with other faiths. But an undercover reporter joined worshippers to find a message of religious bigotry and extremism being preached.

He captures chilling sermons in which Saudi-trained preachers proclaim the supremacy of Islam, preach hatred for non-Muslims and for Muslims who do not follow their extreme beliefs - and predict a coming jihad. “An army of Muslims will arise,” announces one preacher. Another preacher said British Muslims must “dismantle” British democracy - they must “live like a state within a state” until they are “strong enough to take over.”

The investigation reveals Saudi Arabian universities are recruiting young Western Muslims to train them in their extreme theology, then sending them back to the West to spread the word. And the Dispatches reporter discovers that British Muslims can ask for fatwas, religious rulings, direct from the top religious leader in Saudi Arabia, the Grand Mufti.

Saudi-trained preachers are also promoted in DVDs and books on sale at religious centres and sermons broadcast on websites. These publications and webcasts disseminate beliefs about women such as: “Allah has created the woman deficient, her intellect is incomplete”, and girls: “By the age of 10 if she doesn’t wear hijab, we hit her,” and there’s an extreme hostility towards homosexuals.

The investigation reveals that the influence of Saudi Arabian Islam, Wahabism, extends beyond the walls of some mosques to influential organisations that advise the British government on inter-community relations and prevention of terrorism.

The Dispatches reporter attends talks at mosques run by key organisations whose public faces are presented as moderate and mainstream - and finds preachers condemning the idea of integration into British society, condemning British democracy as un-Islamic and praising the Taliban for killing British soldiers.

And now today we learn that Saudi influence is not just in the mosque but the Islamic school:-

An Islamic school is poisoning the minds of pupils with lessons in hate, a former teacher claims.

Colin Cook, 57, says textbooks used by children as young as five at the King Fahad Academy in Acton describe Jews as “repugnant” and “apes” and Christians as “pigs”.

Pupils have allegedly been heard saying they want to “kill Americans”, praising 9/11 and idolising Osama bin Laden as their “hero”.

... Its sister school of the same name in Bonn has been singled out by the German intelligence services as a meeting place for activists linked to terrorism.

Mr Cook, a Muslim convert, taught English at the school for 19 years until he was sacked in December last year.

He claims he was fired after blowing the whistle on the school for covering up cheating by children in GCSE exams

... He also alleges that when he complained to school management about the content of the curriculum and questioned whether it complied with British laws, he was told: “This is not England. It is Saudi Arabia”.

He said that the school was “very good” until the majority of British teachers left in 2005. He said: “Since then, there has been a move towards a pro-Saudi agenda.

Well, perverse as usual and given our long-term interests, I don’t think this is nearly as negative as Colin Cook makes out. Wahabbism advancing through the Umma is beneficial to us in several ways. It is westernisation and the concomitant appearance of more and more Colin Cooks that is dangerous ... that and the demographic issue, of course.

Tags: Islam & Islamification

Comments:

Posted by Rnl on Tue, 06 Feb 2007 21:13 | #

textbooks used by children as young as five at the King Fahad Academy in Acton describe Jews as “repugnant” and “apes” and Christians as “pigs”.

That Jews and Christians are the descendants of apes and pigs is an old Islamic belief based on the Koran. Traditionally Jews are apes and Christians pigs, but pious Muslims often use the labels less rigorously, usually to the detriment of Jews, who become the descendants of both apes and pigs. There is a Koranic precedent for this in Sura 5.60, where Allah recounts how he transformed disbelieving Jews into apes and pigs.

The key passage for Jews as apes is 2.65-66: “Be you [Jews] apes, miserably slinking! And We made it a punishment exemplary for all the former times and for the latter, and an admonition to such as are godfearing.” Ibn Ishaq, author of the early _Life of Mohammed_, assumes these verses describe a literal transformation of Jews into apes, whereas nowadays some Muslim commentators argue that the Jews, through their disbelief, merely became monkey-like. Others point out that not all Jews were transformed into apes, only those who refused to honor the Sabbath.

Christians appear to have received the pig slur through default. Since Jews are apes according to 2.65-66 and 7.166, that leaves pigs as a distinguishing slur for Christians. When Sicily was under Muslim occupation in the ninth century, Christians in Palermo were forced to wear a pig badge and Jews an ape badge.

Liberal Westerners, convinced that great religions necessarily teach tolerance, are often shocked when they hear news reports of some supposedly rabid Muslim imam describing the two Peoples of the Book as pigs and apes. They think he must be making it up, since numerous authority figures on their televisions have told them that Islam is a remarkably tolerant religion. But the Muslim imam isn’t at all radical and he isn’t making anything up. He is just teaching his traditional Islamic faith.

If multiracialist politicians are embarrassed by this striking example of Muslim hostility, they’ll have to prohibit Muslim clerics from teaching the relevant verses of the Koran in their mosques.

Or they could explain to them that 5.60 is speaking of Jews, not Christians, so they should restrict the pigs and apes epithet to Jews alone.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 07 Feb 2007 02:19 | #

The Saudis’ Wahhabist version of Sunni Islam is spreading fast and Britain needs to close down every Muslim school and mosque which receives finance (and concomitant ideological input) from the infidel-hating, inbred, low-IQ, primitives.

Posted by Lurker on Wed, 07 Feb 2007 03:48 | #

You learn something new everyday.

However I find I dont really care what muslims call us. Its just the sound of little dogs yapping, screw em, who cares what they think as long as they stay out of our territory.

Ditto for hispanics calling us anglos (I know thats hardly helpful for Resisting Defamation - sorry). Again I dont care how insulting it supposed to be, its just noise from more people who we could just brush aside when the time comes.

Sorry, not very well thought out, Im tired.

Posted by Lurker on Wed, 07 Feb 2007 04:01 | #

Reading elsewhere I see my above comment might be seen as endorsing WJP re Stanley Womack.

Its not.

Insults - shiksas/dogs & apes/anglos etc, its got to be confronted I know, I just dont find it bothers me.

Posted by Rnl on Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:32 | #

The Saudis’ Wahhabist version of Sunni Islam is spreading fast

_Islam_ is spreading fast. The Saudis help it spread and Western politicians provide larger Muslim populations into which it can spread. But what is spreading is the Islam of the Koran, not an idiosyncratic interpretation of Islam.

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:56 | #

Despite what Rnl chooses to believe, Islam is not a monolith and there are great differences between a jolly Saturday night spent drinking in Kuala Lumpur or Jakarta (I know, because I’ve enjoyed the pubs and clubs of both Islamic capitals) and a miserable one spent in Jeddah.

The Special Branch of the Royal Malaysian Police are vigilant in their tracking of the spread of Wahhabism in their country and any mosque whose imam preaches their extremist Saudi doctrine is ruthlessly replaced.

Posted by Tim Jensen on Wed, 07 Feb 2007 07:50 | #

Mr. Ross,
I agree that islam is not a monolithic creed, the muslims of Malaysia seem to be pretty easy going, and most of the muslim population in the Balkans seems to be so as well. However, my problem is this: Islam may not be monolithic, but it seems that Wahabbism is like an infection. I can only speak for the US, but no “moderate” muslims here vere seem to get that worked up about terror, muslim atrocities, etc… It is always a “Yes, but…” answer (i.e., “Yes, but we must remember that the US did so on and so forth…”). My feeling is that islam is a continuum. In other words, all muslims want sharia, the only question is how to get there, by peaceful conversion and using PC and multi-culturalism along with immigration or war and terror. I have also read and heard radical muslims can accuse more moderate muslims of being “bad muslims” if they don’t go along with the more violent/radical strain of islam. Isn’t the recent case of the murder plot against the muslim soldier in England a case of this?

Posted by Al Ross on Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:15 | #

Mr Jensen,

You are correct in saying that radical Muslims apply a variation of moral blackmail to moderate brethern. This is possible because 58% of the world’s Muslims are illiterate in their mother tongue, far less being capable of reading the nonsense in the Koran.

Because GW’s thread was headed, ‘Saudi…’, I made mention of the pernicious Wahhabi cult, among which there are, I suspect, precious few moderates.

If, as you claim, “all Muslims want Sharia”, then they are very slow to vote for it in Malaysia, where the PAS Party lists the introduction of that very system as its main electoral platform and remains marginalised. Ditto Indonesia. Remember that these two countries Muslim population outnumbers that of the Arab world.

The EU should be working towards a Muslim-free Euro-zone as quickly as is convenient and it behoves us all to understand the nature of the Islamic threat and which of its racially diverse adherents pose the gravest danger to our civilisation.

Posted by PF on Wed, 07 Feb 2007 23:16 | #

“Well, perverse as usual and given our long-term interests, I don’t think this is nearly as negative as Colin Cook makes out. Wahabbism advancing through the Umma is beneficial to us in several ways. It is westernisation and the concomitant appearance of more and more Colin Cooks that is dangerous ... that and the demographic issue, of course.”

I think every sign of mobilization on ‘the other side’ should be celebrated with a loud hurrah, and praised even if praising it is ingenuine or self-contradictory- whether it be Gangsta Rap, “Day without an Immigrant” Protests or Wahhabism, Belgium’s Congolese Drug-gangs or whatever else. Every step in this direction makes a counter-mobilization more inevitable. Thank god these people didnt turn into the obsequious assimilating weak-kneed poet-philosophers of equality the newspaper-faggots thought they would turn into. Otherwise we might be enslaved to them forever. Thank god they are too stupid to see their only true advantage lies in a soft step.

Posted by Rnl on Thu, 08 Feb 2007 07:23 | #

Al Ross wrote:

Despite what Rnl chooses to believe, Islam is not a monolith

Muslims don’t form a monolith, but the Islam of the Koran is a coherent religion with many definable features. One of them is hostility toward non-Muslims. Another is the obligation to wage jihad against non-Muslims until the world becomes Islamic. That not every Muslim accepts the obligation to make the world Islamic doesn’t alter the Koran. The text remains the same. The teachings remain the same. They are available to any Muslim who chooses to follow them.

Islam’s jihadist imperative would perhaps be unobjectionable if all Muslims lived in Muslim countries. But because Western politicians have opened their borders to the Third World, the violence of Islam and its holy book has become our problem.

As Guillaume Faye points out, aggressive Muslims in France often violate Islam’s moral teachings. They get drunk. They burn cars. They rape women. They earn their incomes by crime. For them the Koran orients their hostility toward their crusader hosts. It tells them that they are entitled to hate the French. Allah approves of their hatred. He wants more of it. The Koran says so.

The Saudis didn’t invent the old Muslim tradition that associates Christians with pigs. They only provide textbooks that propagate it. There are over one hundred verses in the Koran that urge Muslims to wage war against non-Muslims. The Saudis didn’t write them. They only encourage Muslims in the West to take the verses seriously. They are promoting Islam, not some extremist perversion of Islam, as multiculturalists would like us to believe.

Saudi doctrine = Koranic Islam.

***

Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran ... should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth…. Everything we need to know is in the Koran. We don’t need to look somewhere else.

- Omar M. Ahmad, chairman of CAIR, the Muslim advocacy group, quoted in the San Ramon Valley Herald, July 4, 1998.