Posted by Johan Van Vlaams on Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:32 | #

This is a theoretical consideration I already made too. However another aspect is that as the immigrants arrive somewhere, let’s say in Spain, up to now, they tend to stay were they arrived, also because with their Spanish they won’t come far in the rest of Europe, certainly not here in Flanders.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:32 | #

“with their Spanish they won’t come far in the rest of Europe, certainly not here in Flanders.”  (—Johan)

They know Spanish?  Tell ‘em to come to the States:  Spanish is de rigeur here, thanks to Bush and Rove—they’ll rocket straight to the top!  English is out, done, finished here—the future belongs to the Spanish-speakers:  Bush and Rove have seen to that.

( ... Of course ... there are those of us who are going to see if we can change that ... And our numbers are growing ...)

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:37 | #

Schengen is really only an agreement to dismantle border controls, so it is of a second-order of importance to Maastricht - which introduced the free movement of goods AND people across all borders within the EU.  At Maastricht the reasoning people-wise was, as you will not be surprise to learn, to enhance equality and social cohesion.

Schengen has not been signed up to by the UK or Irish governments.  But we have no rights to stop citizens of the EU from coming here to live and work.  They just have to deal with the controls that have been swept away elsewhere in the EU (and in Norway, Iceland and Switzerland which aren’t even member states).

Posted by Al Ross on Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:20 | #

The whole EU ‘live anywhere’ policy would be tested to destruction if the majority of new Eastern Europeans with pan-EU right of abode decided to relocate to Luxembourg. We would soon see a policy recant.

Posted by Robert the Bruce on Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:53 | #

Thankfully, France and Germany both have recently enacted very tough immigration laws that block the entry of radical Muslims while encouraging entry from skilled White professionals from Eastern Europe and South and North America—http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=9800  Austria and Switzerland have already had such tough laws on the books, while Spain and Italy are both moving in the same direction, along with Belgium in recent years, though the Low Countries still have a ways to go in this regard.

While I don’t like Nicolas Sarkozy in many ways, I have to give him grudging respect for pushing that tough immigration law through the French Parliament, and while it’s no panacea, it’s already having a big effect—not only are North Africans basically being kept out, but thousands of already-resident North Africans have been deported.  (I’m far less confident about Britain, which is basically becoming a South Asian/Jamaican/Southern African colony.)

The upshot of this, to my own surprise, is that I’m much more confident about the sociocultural and ethnic future of Europe than about the United States.  Here in the USA, with our political system as it is, immigration reform is impossible—there’s just too much money, too many vested interests in both parties and in the media in encouraging mass Third World immigration here.  Short or a revolution, maybe even a partial breakup of the country, that’s not going to improve much.  This *despite* the fact that all this immigration is making us even more dependent on imported foreign oil by boosting our oil needs—thus putting even more resources into the hands of our most dangerous enemies!

By comparison, Europe, for all its socialist flaws, has a much more established culture and respect for its roots.  They’re far from perfect there either, but in comparison to the US, they’ve much stronger in preserving their European heritage. 

A few of my American friends in college have even been buying up books and audiotapes in German, Italian or French and emigrating with their families from the US to Europe, and say that it’s the best decision they ever made.  This has been almost a unanimous opinion.

Posted by A. Windaus on Sat, 23 Sep 2006 02:40 | #

Imagine then if you added Turkey to the member state list…

Posted by Lá?a Hruška on Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:55 | #

Al Ross: how many of Central Europeans (Eastern Europe is Ukraine and Russia) relocate into Luxembourg depends on several factors. One is the economic situation of their countries, another the culture (in some of the countries emmigration is rather uncommon) and yet another knowledge of the language.

Currently it is mostly Poles who relocate and Britain with Ireland as the target (because of the language). Most of the people plan to return back after few years, not to resettle permanently.

OP: as Guessedworker said Schengen is mostly irrelevant here. A large movement of third world immigrants, now citizens of one EU country into another would likely result in policy changes making such a flow hard to impossible, up to suspending the “live anywhere” policy by national governments. That’s how Central European countries dealt with the danger of huge flow of immigrants from the true Eastern Europe.

Posted by Al Ross on Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:53 | #

LH, I was referring to the former Eastern Bloc block countries. Much of Russia is situated outside Europe. Under Communism there wasnt much of a ‘culture’ of emigration, except as applied to those perennial emigrants, the Jews, and only then after American special pleading.Also if knowledge of the host country’s language were a factor there would be a lot fewer immigrants arriving in the US from Mexico.