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The BNP trial of strength steps up - UPDATE Tonight, far from showing any signs of weakening, the BNP rebels have issued an expanded list of demands to Nick Griffin:-
Meanwhile, Griffin made his peace gesture some days ago in the form of a weak-tea reshuffle and, in a local party meeting in Bradford, a proposal to reinstate Sadie Graham and Kenny Smith to the party – a proposal seconded by Mark Collett. Since the failure of this manoeuvre Griffin and Co have moved on to make serious allegations of financial impropriety and spying against Graham and Smith. This appears only to have seriously weakened Griffins position with the rebel half of the party (and it is that big). So, how will it all end? I see absolutely no sign that this Humpty Dumpty can be put back together again. These people are not going to trust one another, not going to be willing to work together. What has been done cannot be undone. So here are three of many possible futures for nationalism in Britain:- Scenario 1: Griffin gets his way Griffin blags it out into the New Year and beyond. The rebels lose cohesion and resolve, and either lack what it takes to form a new party or do it desperately badly. They are duly marginalised. The BNP, though, is now morally compromised – a point not lost on potential supporters. Gradually, it takes on the appearance more of a dog in the nationalist manger. Accordingly, nationalism does not meet its date with destiny in 2025, and Britain loses its only hope of a political solution to the coming post-liberal crisis. Scenario 2: The party bleeds to death The rebels prove more resilient than Griffin expects. BNP membership renewals are hit hard – much harder than the Old Guard is prepared to admit publicly. Then the two remaining large-scale party backers simultaneously decide they don’t like what they are seeing - either of the leadership or of the future prospects for the party. They distance themselves, telling Griffin that he can’t count on their support unless he sorts out his internal problems. He is not able to do that for reasons which are much hinted at among nationalists, but never explained. The slow bleeding that was the loss of membership receipts becomes a haemorrhage of party income, and the destruction of the party - and the old guard with it - is assured. The excommunicated rebels promptly announce the formation of the National Democratic Party, or some such. They succeed in attracting sufficient funding and activist support to keep the nationalist dream alive. But how uncertain is the future now, and how much precious time has been lost? Scenario 3: Labour gets its revenge Following the letter by Jon Cruddas to the head of the Metropolitan police, Sir Ian Blair, Griffin and others are charged under the Theft Act 1968 , the Computer Misuse Act 1990, and the Regulation of Investigatory Power Act 2000. During the sentencing the judge explains that in Griffin’s case he would have been prepared to forego a custodial sentence except for the defendant’s aggravating claims which he made on the BNP website concerning the stolen property, claims which he knew at the time to be entirely false. Acting leader Tony Brewer declares that the party must survive so that it might serve the true peoples of these islands in their hour of need. He declares the conflict in the party over, meeting all rebel demands and promising a new dawn for nationalism in Britain. And then? UPDATE 19.12.07 Transcript from the BBC’s flagship Newsnight on 18th December 2007. Reporter Paul Mason, speaking in the studio to Jeremy Paxman:-
This is on top of past accusations from the loyalist camp that the rebels were “reds” and even “state assets”. Describing Graham and friends as “hardline neo-Nazis”, though, is pushing it. Any member with a modicum of intelligence will begin to wonder what kind of man can say that. “An honest one” does not immediately spring to mind. “A desperate one,” possibly. “A bad psychologist” is my assessment. I suppose we must prepare ourselves for the desperately thin justification that Graham’s stolen computer hard-drive holds proof of visits to the NF website, and maybe even Redwatch. Comments:2
Posted by Guessedworker on Thu, 20 Dec 2007 00:44 | # Chris, you are most welcome. Thanks for the comment. The mist is still lifting, and the character of the players has not yet fully distinguished itself from their former appearance. When it has, many long-time assessments will be found at odds with the new reality. Then, binding and even fateful decisions will have to be made. For some, personal loyalty and the glamour of power will always weigh more heavily than the good of the people the BNP exists - or could exist - to serve. For others there will be not a moment’s doubt what is really at stake here: nationalism in Britain has been gifted a fleeting opportunity, while there is still time, to centre itself on a new, unimpeachably moral basis. I wish there were people in Sadie’s camp who could articulate this historic opportunity in clear and powerful language. But upright and dedicated activists though they are, the rebels lack this facility, this “vision thing”. As we all know, Nick Griffin possesses the power of the spoken word, and may yet be able to outbid his opponents in this department. I believe now that it would be harmful for all of us if he did. 3
Posted by Chris Hill on Thu, 20 Dec 2007 01:21 | # What makes Nick Griffin such a good speaker, at least in normal times, is the fact that he is talking good plain common sense. OK he does put it over very well, but the main point is the common sense content of his speeches. This time he has to convince people to swallow a load of rubbish, and even with his eloquent delivery, he’ll find it somewhat harder to convince an intelligent audience, such as the vast majority of BNP members now are. 4
Posted by Dan Dare on Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:38 | # GW - this seems to me to go to the heart of the matter: “... They distance themselves, telling Griffin that he can’t count on their support unless he sorts out his internal problems. He is not able to do that for reasons which are much hinted at among nationalists, but never explained. “ Griffin is quite obviously a gifted politician and communicator, who has the potential to form an effective and electable alternative to the old-gang mainstream parties, so the burning question is why does he continue to include nonentities like Collett within his inner circle. Is it just a question of misplaced loyalty or is it, as your comments above imply, that there may be some dirty laundry needing to be aired? 5
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:44 | # I cannot imagine a better choice to lead the BNP at this juncture than Griffin. I just cannot imagine it. He’s excellent. If he’s ousted, I don’t care who repaces him, it’s going to go downhill from there. Right now it’s holding its own and even inching forward. 6
Posted by Englander on Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:15 | # Admittedly I haven’t been exposed to Griffin all that much, but I haven’t been terribly impressed with what I’ve seen. Can anyone provide a link to a video where his greatness is apparent? 7
Posted by Dan Dare on Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:21 | # Re Griffin’s oratory: I don’t think we’re talking about being close to anything vaguely Churchillian here, but I would suggest, in the hope that it doesn’t sound like damning with faint praise, that Nick Griffin’s verbal communications skills are at least on a par with any contemporary mainstream Anglo-American pol. He does suffer from being not being not quite telegenic enough, and the accent can sometimes be a little grating, but he does manage to get the message across quite effectively, at least to those whose receiving apparatus is turned on. There are a number of videos on the BNP website that ‘showcase’ his style, but I think he comes off much better in adversarial situation, such as a Newsnight interview or panel discussion. Again, there are a number of sample which can be googled up quite easilu. Not really adversarial, but I thought his 2005 speech to David Duke’s operation was very impressive. Unfortunately the video seems to have gone astray, but the transcript can be found here. Read it out loud with a hint of Estuary nasal whine and you’ll get the picture. 8
Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:24 | # Oratory won’t really save him now:-
The third of the rebel demands listed in my post should surely read:- 3. Nick Griffin to leave the Party forever. 9
Posted by David hamilton on Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:53 | # Thereis comment on many different websites nd the Conservative Democratic Alliancedevotes a thread to it. There are some wags describing Griffin as a “cat” lover. There are also two character assessments of NG that are proving accurate. This was written around 4 years ago - http://www.spearhead.com/0411-ss.html This was written last June - http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2007/06/martin-webster-joins-attack-on-bnps.html 10
Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 25 Dec 2007 10:04 | # Proving that the man is nothing if not a politician, David. However, his “long knives” approach to EiE carries with it the possibility, looking more and more like a probability, of getting cut himself. There are EiE commenters now openly encouraging Sadie Graham to stand as leader, and these comments are not deleted. It is still possible, of course, that a police arrest and trial on a variety of charges will settle the issue, and a leadership election will have to be held. 11
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 25 Dec 2007 14:39 | # I’m starting to see it’s looking fairly grim for Griffin’s prospects for hanging onto party leadership. Well, I’ve always liked him but the party comes first—if it gets to the point where the handwriting is on the wall he should capitulate to the inevitable as gracefully as possible without bringing the party down with him. Has he responded to any of these accusations against him, by the way, that seem suddenly for some reason to be popping up fast and furious? I mean, “There are two sides to every story,” and all that ... 12
Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:41 | # The response has been to proffer, let say, all-too-easily fabricated “proofs”, some of them very shaky indeed, that his opponents are liars, hard-left plants and MI5 operatives. And hard-right Neo-Nazis. Though that last one appears to have gone a bit quiet lately, since it was accorded such universal derision. It isn’t exactly a winning strategy. Though the general membership which supports him like crazy doesn’t actually know anything of this, because they never go near a computer. The war is being waged among the activist membership. But a leadship vote would be conducted among all members, of course - making it virtually impossible to unseat him via that route. 13
Posted by Friedrich Braun on Tue, 25 Dec 2007 18:12 | # Wow, what a ‘grrrreat’ epithet of Nick Griffin et al.! I’m simply blown away by it, as it’s so absolutely unique, amazingly intelligent and never, ever, used before; let alone by his enemies, or enemies of nationalism and racialism in general. Whoever is ‘the biggest Nazi of them all,’ right…? You know, in “Israel” when the Zhids fight among eachother they also accuse eachother of being “nazis”! At least Tyndall was in the habit of calling his opponents “Stalinists.” 14
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 25 Dec 2007 18:33 | # The BNP‘s Richard Barnbrook and Simone Clarke (the Yorkshire ballerina) are engaged. Miss Clarke, more and more shunted aside in her profession because of what the uniquely contemptible, treacherous Guardian newpaper did to her, and no longer being offered top ballet parts apparently, is not compromising on her convictions or her patriotism in the face of her heartbreaking professional ruin but, reportedly, is thinking of running for office as a BNP candidate. This is an uncommonly brave and patriotic woman. In regard to her half-English, half-Chinese five-year-old daughter and Mr. Barnbrook’s comments in the first link above: I see absolutely no contradiction or awkwardness involved in an opponent of excessive incompatible immigration adopting and loving a mixed-race child, and Barnbrook has not a thing to explain: this whole effort in regard to questioning race-replacement is about numbers, not individuals — numbers of racially/ethnoculturally unlike peoples moving to a country to stay, and the political forces responsible for bringing those numbers about. On an individual level you can love a person of another race while opposing the turning of your whole country into that race. There’s no contradiction there. Mr. Barnbrook can love a half-Chinese daughter while opposing a Chinese England, every bit as much as he can love, in the same little girl, a half-English daughter and oppose an English China. Again, there’s no contradiction or anything to explain: it’s about numbers, not individuals. An individual doesn’t race-replace a nation. Tens of millions of individuals do. He’s not adopting tens of millions of daughters. No one should get the idea that to oppose forced race-replacment you have to dislike members of other races on a personal level. You don’t. You can like them fine and get along great with them, while not wanting every member of your own race to be changed into a member of theirs. Presumably they feel likewise: they feel they can like you and get along with you fine, while not wanting every member of their race changed into a member of yours. There’s no contradiction whatsoever, or any awkwardness, or anything to explain to anyone. 15
Posted by Bert Rustle on Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:06 | # Lee Barnes has an illuminating set of articles from the British newspapers - Daily Express, Independent etc: MI5 admit plan to infiltrate and destroy the BNP Note: Though this particular post does not contain foul language, some others do, especially in the comments. 16
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:39 | #
That’s no accident. The same people, Jews and others, who’ve pulled Labour’s strings to give us the likes of Blair, Brown, and Blunkett made sure a man like John Grieve was chosen to head this Race Crime Unit. The string-pullers make sure the kind of mentality they want in key spots gets appointed, and the kind they don’t want gets rejected. (Guess what policies are supported by the kind they want.) So they know going in what their man is going to do once in office. And surprise, surprise, he does it! It’s no coincidence the Archbishop of Canterbury is an asshole: he was an asshole before being selected for the post, the Jews knew it, and that’s why they designated him as the man they wanted. Now they’ve got him. And they’ve got this John Grieve mentioned in the article, who is no different from the others they’ve installed. It’s not the Zeitgeist or “the times we live in” doing it. It’s specific groups, who know how to organize and how to wrest and keep control, getting things their way. 17
Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:37 | # Welcome Bert, whoever you are. Your thread commentary over recent months in the Gurdian has been a hoot, and a very good read. I - and, no doubt, many others - have wondered whether we know you better by some other name. As for Grieve c.1999 et al, the nature and trajectory of advanced liberalism mandates the state production of intellectual and political conformity. We dissidents are already supremely adapted to the requisite lexical contortions to continue proposing the survival of European Man. We shall adapt organisationally, too. And just as the clumsy and foolish have become thought-criminals, so the less than scrupulously honest and careful will be weeded out of national politics. But the movement itself will go on. I wrote a piece to this effect about Richard Warman just the other day. All the would-be gulag officers of anti-racism will achieve is the better honing of the very weapon that will slay them. 18
Posted by Bert Rustle on Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:28 | # A belated seasons greetings to you Guessedworker. From commenting in the Guardian, I have concluded that many Social Studies students have apparently been fed with various reality denying PC slogans to be used in shouting matches rather than in open debate. Students put their trust in their professors and expect them to be fair, honest and well informed; instead of which, they are apparently serial victims of serious professional misconduct. The main encouraging sign was that the Guardian published all my comments, so at least the moderators are willing to entertain a referenced debate. As far as I am aware the only other name I am known by is the one other name I am known by, so I do not wonder if you know me by some other name. In fact I have only recently become aware that the Western Ruling Class implicitly assume the innate equality of Homo sapiens in their potential faculties at the point of conception – a clear example of the fact that the Cold War never ended and indeed is ongoing by other means. There are (ex-) communists and (ex-) CND members in the British Government and those with rather more serious convictions than speaking in public or distributing leaflets in prominent public positions in Ulster and many other places. Consequently I see no reason why Nick Griffin or indeed Keith Best or Jonathan Aitken should not hold similar positions. Regarding party discipline, how different is the BNP from the Establishment Party? I would hazard a guess that the BNP has many members who are also members of various intelligence agencies, as was the case with the paramilitaries in Ulster and who are similarly motivated. The moment these individuals have room to manoeuvre, political effectiveness will reduce. Paramilitary party discipline was rather more vigorously enforced in Ulster yet the in fighting still occurred, so I would hazard a guess that being in the BNP rather than the Establishment Party will continue to be personally demanding for the foreseeable future. Guessedworker wrote “... But the movement itself will go on. ... To what end? Approaching one third of infants in England are non-indigenous, as opposed to one quarter in primary school. It seems to me that the likely outcomes vary between Lost Angeles and Yugoslavia and I would hazard a guess that this will happen before the Establishment Party is removed from office. 19
Posted by Adrian Peirson on Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:30 | # Clearly there is an an Orchestrated divide and Conquer strategy aimed at the BNP, very similar to the one aimed at Britain and the British, Scottish & Welsh Devolution, English Regions, Mass Immigration. Forge Unions. http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865
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Posted by Adrian Peirson on Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:51 | # http://www.planetquo.com 21
Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:34 | # Adrian, You are seriously suggesting that the “official Griffin line” is truthful, and the BNP dissidents are orchestrated? By ... Zionists? That’s very sad. The evidence is to the contrary. The BNP leader and his strange coterie are quite possibly an orchestrated party. As reader Richard Clement noted on the previous BNP thread (Feet of Clay, 10.12.07), the libertarian intellectual Sean Gabb held this same opinion:-
Gabb is a perfectly sincere man, and no dupe. I would love to know his “reasons”, and I would publish them if the law allowed. I am NOT, btw, “orchestrated”. 22
Posted by larch on Sun, 06 Jan 2008 11:43 | # Gabb has to do better than that. Make the claim, then give the reasons. Not that any of this *should* be surprising, *if* it is true. 23
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sun, 06 Jan 2008 14:47 | # So the dawn police raid, the ransacking of his home, his arrest and being led away in handcuffs for interrogation in front of terrified wife and children, his detainment for questioning — for some twleve hours wasn’t it? (maybe 24 before they let him go, I don’t remember), his criminal trial, and finally his acquittal, were all an MI-5 Studios Production, directed by Security Branch and starring that well-known screen and stage presence, Nick Griffin? (Or are you saying that was genuine but it was at that point he was “turned” by MI-5 in exchange for not going to jail?) I have to say, even completely apart from that particular outrage and based only on everything else — his speeches, his blog entries, everything I’ve read and seen by and about the man — I flat-out cannot remotely believe he’s anything other than genuine. Sorry. Sean Gabb, a man who didn’t have the balls to associate himself with this site,( * ) needs to “put up” or STFU with his insinuations. Without citing evidence it was jaw-droppingly inappropriate, in view of his reputation (in other words, he’s not just some crank), to write what he did. ( * Don’t get me wrong about Gabb — he’s a very good man (as far as he goes), and I agree of course with James Bowery that those foregoing anonymity are to be held to a more forgiving standard. However, as with Fjordman, Gabb could go further but won’t — yet he’s slinging mud at a man, who also foregoes anonymity, who’s not only talked the talk but walked the walk his whole career since a teenager. His insinuation without evidence was unacceptable behavior, and my only reply to him is that in the absence of evidence I find it vastly easier to believe that he, Gabb, is a Security Branch plant than that Griffin is. No I see no evidence either is, but Gabb isn’t the only one who can play the sly insinuation game: “two can play.”) 24
Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 06 Jan 2008 14:57 | # From a reply to larch I just made on the Utopian thread:-
The security services’ problem is management not of the BNP but of the rising tide of resentment among the English natives. They don’t need agents to sabotage proceedings if the type and quality of nationalists in control of the process are useful in the same cause. The media and political Establishment is able to demonise away, and the sheeple see little to argue with. 25
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:10 | # A couple of pro-BNP videos: They Never Asked Us and a few comments by Richard Barnbrook. (Barnbrook and the Yorkshire Ballerina Simone Clarke have become engaged, incidentally. God bless them!) Look at the Barnbrook one. See anything to dislike in the man? Hear anything to dislike in what he says? Of course not. But you’re not Jewish, you see. That’s the thing. You’ve got to be Jewish to hate that stuff. Were you Jewish you wouldn’t be able to sleep nights, you’d hate the man so much, hate the man, hate how he looks, hate how he speaks, hate what he says, with an incandescent white-hot loathing. For Euros it’s incomprehensible. For Jews it’s automatic; it’s immediate; it’s second nature; it goes without saying. This is why when Euros get hand-picked Jews the likes of Foreign Minister Milliband lording it over them, they wind up with ... well, with things like the Jewish idea of paradise: Southern California in the year 2008, for example, is the Jewish idea of paradise on earth, namely a world consisting of two parts, the racially/ethnoculturally intact diaspora Jews and the nation of Israel on the one hand, and on the other, one-coffee-colored-Goy-world-with-no-racial/ethnocultural-distinctions-allowed, everyone uniformly racially mixed and ethnoculturally the same. Brazil, in other words. BUT FOR THE GOYS ONLY! Jews still get to be Jewish and still get to have their Israel. Jews love that one-coffee-colored-world-except-for-the-Jews image so much they get orgasms just thinking about it. Euros contemplate it with ... “a little less enthusiasm,” shall we say? Yes, with ... a little less enthusiasm .... As for the other video, the Jews want to replace the British bulldog with a British Pakistani, Jamaican, Nigerian, or Chinaman — anything but what’s “hideously white.” They want to make the change without asking the Brits, of course ... they want to just go ahead and force it on them. Well and truly does the bulldog say, THEY NEVER ASKED US! People have a right to expect to be asked before being phased out .... 26
Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:04 | # Fred: ”“You’ve got to be Jewish to hate that stuff. Like this, you mean. 27
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:59 | # Yes, exactly, GW. That and so much more, deny it though they may try! Though they may “dare” is a better way of putting it! No one is fooled! I myself was, but no more! And fewer and fewer are, with each passing year! How dare they do what they do, then with a bold face attempt to deny they’re even doing it! How low can some people sink! Thanks for that link, GW. 28
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 08 Mar 2008 19:22 | # Some very welcome uplifting optimism and an appeal for campaign volunteers from Nick Griffin. 29
Posted by Fred Scrooby on Sat, 08 Mar 2008 19:42 | # Any who may not have watched the Richard Barnbrook statement linked by me four posts above this one might have a look. I just watched it again, and it still inspires me and leaves me with a lump in the throat of solemn righteous indignation most intensely felt. Post a comment:
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Posted by Chris Hill on Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:26 | #
As a long time Griffin supporter, I think calling Sadie Graham and Ian Dawson Neo-Nazis is quite ridiculous, and has thrown doubts about the strength and legitimacy of the official party’s case against them, even in my mind.
I was at first willing to accept the party official line on the emails and bugged telephone conversations, but now even I have to admit there may be some truth in Sadie Garaham’s contention that these are open to another quite innocent interpretation.
It appears now that many members are beginning to openly questioning Nick Griffin’s own position within the party, something that would have been unthinkable even just 2 weeks ago. And I’ve spoken to on-one who thinks Mark Collett can possible survive this now.