Posted by skeptical on Tue, 14 Oct 2008 01:13 | #

Guessedworker,

I’m similarly stumped.

Do recent events prove that our global “elites” are just another forgettable bunch of bumbling fools or is this all some cleverly orchestrated prelude to global government?  I can easily see myself arguing both sides of this question at one point or another.

Posted by snax on Tue, 14 Oct 2008 01:30 | #

Well, assets don’t vanish in this kind of financial turmoil, of course, they just change hands. I think the evidence is that everything good held by the banks has moved up the chain, to a more streamlined elite, while everything bad has been sold to us. If there is a global elite, above and beyond the likes of Prime Ministers and HBOS/AIG chairmen, I don’t think they’re out of pocket due to these last few weeks. Nor will they be unhappy about their increased control of governments.

Posted by Guessedworker on Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:23 | #

Well, two points to keep to the fore of our minds.

1. The sub-prime crisis proves that assets - in this case debt - can be near worthless.  The real money element in this scenario went first to the property vendors, and latterly to the clever SOBs who bundled the debt and sold it on to other greedy but, crucially, more careless traders, of whom there turned out to be many.

2. The further unfolding of the collapse has been market-driven - a classic issue of confidence.  Global markets are pretty “sincere” entities, and it is not immediately obvious to me how they could have been rigged to pass profits up the chain.  Outside the banking and insurance sectors, the real product of the crisis has been a bull market correction that some pessimists consider to have been a decade overdue, and has wiped trillions of the value of shareholdings.  I simply do not believe that this could have been predicted at the beginning, or would have been considered desirable.

Anyway, I’m keeping an open mind.  It is too early to draw conclusions, and we will need the dust to settle before we can assess the final shape of things, whatever that may be.

Posted by Bill on Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:33 | #

It’s either attributable to the madness of postmodern virtual reality or it’s a fix.

Posted by Bill on Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:45 | #

Is neo Liberalism holed below the water line?

IOW, is unfettered, unregulated behavior of the individual - to become a thing of the past?

Posted by Dave Johns on Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:46 | #

When lenders (for whatever reason) extend credit to uncreditworthy borrowers on a mass scale, the end result cannot be anything other than what we are experiencing. This whole crisis was seen by many from the onset. How couldn’t it be!? Most unscrupulous investors just milked it for what it was worth along the way. Now the bubble has popped, the chickens have come home to roost and the tax-payers, as usual, are footing the bill. In three or four years from now, after this credit crunch has blown over, the reality of the present situation will be relegated to a distant memory. The masses will then be preoccupied with new crises’ du jour; at that point, the elites—the money masters—will move on to their next major rip-off scheme ...

Posted by Revolution Harry on Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:51 | #

Every night on the BBC news when there’s discussion of the present situation you can see on the background the BBC’s snazzy logo. In big letters it says *GLOBAL* financial crisis with the ‘r’ of crisis extending downwards in the shape of an arrow. Just listen to Brown and the rest of the World elites explaining to us all how this is an unprecedented *GLOBAL* crisis. Every time the emphasis is on the word global. This is a completely manufactured and manipulated event. The International Bankers made money out of the Great Depression and they’ll make plenty out of this. Remember though that money is only one part of the plan. The main prize is global control, a One World Government, a New World Order. Global problems require global solutions. Everything is going to plan just nicely.

A few points. These people don’t identify with nations. Nations are there to be destroyed and from everything I’ve read it appears they’ve lined America up for a big fall. Hence the planned collapse of the American banking system. There’s no room for a strong, free, (or so they thought), independent minded nation in the New World Order.

Lastly, when you hear figures in the multi-billions being bandied around where do you think the money’s coming from? The government has no money it’s already in debt. This ‘new’ money will be fresh bank loans from the very same international banking elite. Regarding nationalisation you can guarantee that there’ll be some sleight of hand somewhere. For example the Bank of England was supposedly nationalised in 1946.

‘However, the government had no money to pay for the shares, so instead of receiving money for their shares, the shareholders were issued with government stocks. Although the state now received the operating profits of the bank, this was offset by the fact that the government now had to pay interest on the new stocks it had issued to pay for the shares.

However, it is much more significant to note that whilst the Bank of England is now state-owned the fact is that our money supply is once again almost entirely in private hands, with 97% of it being in the form of interest bearing loans of one sort or another, created by private commercial banks’.

Indeed this is now where the real power resides—with commercial banking.

http://www.prosperityuk.com/prosperity/articles/boe1.html

Posted by James Bowery on Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:25 | #

I think I have described the phenomenon adequately as a failure mode of civilization, unsurprisingly exploited and exacerbated by Jewish virulence.  The modern “elite” are no more “imperious” than were the Roman Patricians.

Jewish virulence isn’t something Jews particularly conspire at.  Its something they cause as a population with the payoff going to a few highly-mobile Jewish elites.  The real problem for the Jewish group organism in the current situation is that the evolutionary payoff of said virulence is highly questionable, hence:

D’OOOOOOH!

Posted by torgrim on Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:31 | #

1920, 1929-33, 1980-83, 2007—, credit expansion, credit reduction, with each, “cycle”,(as if this were an act of nature and not man), real assets are transfered to fewer and fewer holders, until pyramidal in proportion to the mass of population.

This time, the real estate bubble and the 5 to 10%ers, just had a feeding frenzy, lost control due to 10 years of easy money and McHousing. With each sale of a McMansion, a real estate percentage is added, then the attorney or escrow company adds a fee, of course the mortgage broker adds a fee, then the bank adds a fee when selling off the mortgage, and just about last, is the investment bank and it’s fee for “bundling” the debt instrument, lastly the tax paying public picks up the debt, while those that cashed-in, are gone.
Each of these transactions happen within days, whereas, the hard asset the, building, takes months to complete, with more and more risk, due to the unstable market conditions, created by, easy money. This is going to years to settle out the housing market.

Unlike the last housing crash, with the attendant S&L;debacle, which mainly impacted the blue collar production economy, this time the damage has spread to the banking and stock markets and their cohort.

I tend to think that this was managed to a point, with easy credit/easy money, but control ,was lost due to the feeding frenzy in the mortgage/RE/investment banks, percentage/easy money, crowd.

Posted by snax on Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:38 | #

The further unfolding of the collapse has been market-driven - a classic issue of confidence.  Global markets are pretty “sincere” entities, and it is not immediately obvious to me how they could have been rigged to pass profits up the chain.

What is the contraction phase of the “business cycle” GW, if not a periodic squeeze on the creation of money and credit which automatically passes real wealth up the chain (ultimately to those responsible for shutting off the supply)?

Anyway, I’m keeping an open mind.  It is too early to draw conclusions, and we will need the dust to settle before we can assess the final shape of things, whatever that may be.

Yea, but it looks bad. The obvious lesson from all this is the benefit of economic firewalls, yet as RH points out, all the pols and central bankers and msm pundits are spouting one message: we need “co-operation”, more centralisation, a new world economic order…

Couldn’t have been the plan all along, could it?

Posted by danielj on Wed, 15 Oct 2008 01:59 | #

Hmmm…

The question, then, isn’t who profited, but rather, who profits off the profiteers?

Forget it. I’ll just drink my DUFF.

Posted by torgrim on Wed, 15 Oct 2008 06:35 | #

“The question, then, isn’t who profited, but rather, who profits off the profiteers”.—danielj—

Since we are not in control of money, ie.,(commodity based unit of value), it is not in our ability to determine the future of our economy. The central banks determine the value of “money” and hence determine who profits from the “profiteers”.

Posted by Anti-Racist League on Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:29 | #

The whole purpose of this blog is evidently to pit the “races” against one another, to incite strife and disorder in our society, and to thwart class solidarity and international unity, an act for which in an enlightened community you would be criminally prosecuted.  Inciting violence against people because of the colour of their skin should not be protected by ludicrous appeals to “freedom of speech”. The day will come, and I will live to see it, when you and your lot and criminally prosecuted and found guilty for inciting hatred and ethnic strife.

Best regards,
Anti-Racist League

http://antiracistleague.blogspot.com/

Posted by silver on Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:00 | #

AntiRacist,

The whole purpose of your blog is evidently to pit the “classes” against one another, to incite strife and disorder in our society, and to thwart racial solidarity and international localism, an act for which in an enlightened community you would be criminally prosecuted.  Inciting violence against white people because of the colour of their skin or their economic status should not be protected by ludicrous appeals to “freedom of speech.”  The day will come, and I will live to see it, when you and your lot are criminally prosecuted for inciting hatred and ethnic strife.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:46 | #

Silver had a good idea to turn “Anti-racist’s” drool around and throw it back at him, his own words right in his face, but it can’t be done because our side (my side, at least — dunno about Silver’s) aren’t totalitarians.  So, parts of Antiracist’s pathetic drool just don’t go in reverse in that way, namely where Silver paraphrases him here,

“in an enlightened community you would be criminally prosecuted.  Inciting violence against white people because of the colour of their skin or their economic status should not be protected by ludicrous appeals to “freedom of speech.” The day will come, and I will live to see it, when you and your lot are criminally prosecuted for inciting hatred and ethnic strife.”

Our side doesn’t criminalize the voicing of political opinion, only theirs does — so turning Antiracist’s vomit around and throwing it back in his face only goes so far and no further:  there are totalitarian positions his side takes which ours doesn’t and never will.  One fundamental difference between us and them is we allow the voicing of opinion, relying on reason and truth to sort things out and show the way, while they rely on the mailed fist.

Posted by Al Ross on Mon, 20 Oct 2008 01:18 | #

Jim Kalb’s interesting essay on ‘anti-racism’ should be required reading for ‘anti-racist’ but as the irrational and unscientific belief in racial egalitarianism is an intractable psychological, quasi-religious disorder, even Kalb’s flawless logic will be of little help.

http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1287

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Mon, 20 Oct 2008 01:26 | #

Al, that essay of Kalb’s is a true classic.  Everybody on our side who hasn’t already done so should read it.

Posted by Al Ross on Mon, 20 Oct 2008 02:19 | #

Indeed, Fred.

Anti-racist’s trite and unthinking, knee - jerk accusation of “trying to pit races against one another” is redolent of the favourite Third World “divide and rule” fallacy in reference to colonial rule. Within colonial territories like Sri Lanka and Malaya, the British simply could not “divide and rule” because you can only do that to people who are already united and this was far from being the case in the former (Buddhist Singhalese and Hindu Tamils) and also in the latter (Muslim Malays, Confucianist/Taoist/Buddhist Chinese and Hindu/Sikh Indians).

Anti-racist seems. like all his poisonous fellow Marxoids, to be of rather limited intellect.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:31 | #

“Anti-Racist League” showed up in this Inverted-World thread.  The commenters duly sent him on his way:

“Critizing minorities” is a euphemism Ian Jobling uses in this article for “inciting hatred and violence against minorities.”  The whole purpose of his blog is to pit whites against blacks, Muslims, and other minorities deemed “unfit” to participate in American society.  Inciting racial tensions should be criminally prosecuted.  It should be banned by the constitution.  Hopefully the day will come and I will live to see it when you personally are legally tried, found guilty, and shot for inciting ethnic strife.

By Anti-Racist Action

______

Anti-Racist Action wants me to be shot!  He sounds like an Obama fan.  We may be hearing a lot more from people like him over the next few years.

By Ian Jobling

______

It sounds as if he wants all of us shot simply because he has no legitimate response to our valid, sound ideas.  He also doesn’t sound very bright.  It’s just as likely that such violence would be visited upon the censors and Stalinists as upon those of us who believe in freedom and democracy.  And I’m sure he wouldn’t want to be shot himself.  I don’t wish the same on him.  I’d rather defeat him with ideas, but that’s not a fair fight either.

By Dunnyveg

______

Combat your “ideas”?  I could debunk every word you have written on your detested website, but I am not obliged to combat your propaganda; and since deep down you know that everything I have written about you is true, combatting your preposterous “ideas” would only serve to gratify my ego, which however does not respond to such flattery.  The whole purpose of your blog is to pit the “races” against one another, to incite strife and disorder in our society, to thwart class solidarity and international unity, an act for which in an enlightened community you would be criminally prosecuted.  Since it would be futile to appeal to your morality, for no one with any moral sensibility would countenance the white supremacist ideology of which you are an adherent, I hope I can at least appeal to your self-interest.  America is no longer a “white” country.  There is nothing you can do to thwart the tide of human progress.  Adjust yourself to this fact, and perhaps your false discontents may be alleviated.

http://antiracistleague.blogspot.com/

By Anti-Racist League

______

I’ll make a deal with you:  If you can give me clear-cut,cogent, compelling reasons why our ideas are wrong, I’ll join your cause.  I’m here because I think these people are right.  Convince me they are wrong.

By Dunnyveg

______

“I could debunk every word you have written on your detested [detested by whom?] website, but I am not obliged to combat your propaganda …”

A windy concession speech.

“and since deep down you know that everything I have written about you is true, …”

A begged question.  We know no such thing, nor have you attempted even the rudiments of an argument.

“combatting your preposterous [begged question] ‘ideas’ would only serve to gratify my ego, which however does not respond to such flattery.”

You clearly respond to the sort of flattery you bestow upon yourself.  Since you admit not to having a real argument, your appearance here is nothing but a childish, self-congratulatory gesture.  Why should anyone take it seriously?

“The whole purpose of your blog is to pit the ‘races’ against one another, to incite strife and disorder in our society, to thwart class solidarity and international unity”

The purpose of the blog is to engender in white people a clear sense of the danger they and their civilization face.  I doubt whether you have these sorts of qualms when blacks, Asians or mestizos are the object of racial activism or unity.  Do you peddle this sophomoric twaddle on the Nation of Islam website, or that of the NAACP?

“… an act for which in an enlightened community you would be criminally prosecuted.”

“Enlightened” communities do not execute people for expressing opinions.  The sort of totalitarian society for which you yearn does, of course.  Inside every marxoid sophomore is a Torquemada yearning to get out.

“I hope I can at least appeal to your self-interest.”

The self-interest of white people is exactly what is at issue.  How is that interest served by acquiescence in the transformation of the United States into a third-world cesspool?  Why should this development be applauded instead of opposed?

“There is nothing you can do to thwart the tide of human progress.”

Two begged questions.

1) In what sense is the third-world tsunami bearing down upon the US “progress”?  By what measurable standard?  There is a short-term benefit for the non-whites, of course, as they emigrate from nations which by our standards are failures, but why should we, whose nation this supposedly is, put the interests of third-world aliens above those of our own people and families?  Ask China or India why they don’t accept floods of aliens into their nations.

2) In addition, appeals to fantasies like inexorable “tides of human progress” are just silly.  No one with even a rudimentary understanding of history would claim that any historical development is inevitable or irresistable.

By Cassiodorus

______

I’m a non-white living in Latin America but I consider valid your concerns about immigration.  Nobody can deny a country the right to establish their own immigration policies according to their interests (quotas?).  Ironically, the best way to preserve human diversity is avoiding to convert our world into a “melting pot”.  Every culture and ethnic group of our world should be preserved.  I’m not happy to know that whites will become extinct in a not so far future, they built in North America a nation of democracy and freedom, whose principles were followed by the world.  P.S:  In Japan 98% of their population is pure Japanese and that cultural and ethnic homogeneity is their strenght.

By Eduardo

______

“The whole purpose of his blog is to pit whites against blacks, Muslims, and other minorities deemed ‘unfit’ to participate in American society.  Inciting racial tensions should be criminally prosecuted.  It should be banned by the constitution.  Hopefully the day will come and I will live to see it when you personally are legally tried, found guilty, and shot for inciting ethnic strife.”

By this post alone, you have proved yourself unfit to participate in American society.  But thanks for letting us know the prevailing opinion of the enlightened forces of tolerance, hope, and change.

By Mr. Anon

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:42 | #

(“Anti-Racist League” has favored MR.com with two appearances:  for any who may have missed it, his other appearance here (apart from the one earlier in the present thread) was this one.)

Posted by Fred Scrooby on Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:43 | #

(And GW’s reply to him right below it.)

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:59 | #

He sounds psychotic.

Posted by Lurker on Sun, 26 Oct 2008 03:16 | #

Thought Id check out Mr Antiracist league who was posting here.

His blog is now open to invited readers only.

Well thats going to be a big hit in the cut and thrust of the marketplace of ideas.

What a loser!