The Indian/Chinese IQ puzzle continued for comments after 1000

Posted by DanielS on Tuesday, 27 December 2016 03:30.

Details of painting of the meeting of Manjusri and Vimalakirti.

Originally Published Dec `2004 by John Jay, who said:

Both India and China are countries that have had the sort of moderate contact with the rest of Eurasia that their position at two extremities of Asia would lead one to expect.  Both India and China have had their own sophisticated civilizations for at least two thousand years.  The Chinese invented such things as gunpowder and printing.  The Indians invented the so-called “Arabic” numerals that we use to this day and one of their religions (Buddhism) has been enormously influential outside their own borders.  Both Indians and Chinese do extremely well economically outside their home countries.  To me this is a picture of two generally intelligent populations.  Yet the average IQ score for the two differs markedly.  Chinese score somewhat above the Western norm and Indians score markedly below it.  How come?

The comments have not been displaying after number 1000 - Sunny Mittal on Sat, 31 Aug 2013 14:41 | #, 1000 - therefore, I will include below the subsequent comments that were attempted since; and those who wish to comment on this thread may continue to do so here.


anonymous 2014-08-24 11:09 AM said:

You should continue this subject in another page from the 1001st post


Ok, as we said, there were a few dozen comments which didn’t register after number 1000. The ones that did not appear span from 31 Aug 2013 to 27 Dec 2016 and are being displayed here, under the fold; the thread is continued anew and comments may resume.


Posted by Sunny Mittal on Sat, 31 Aug 2013 14:41 | # 1000

I think I have got still unfinished business with this Muslim street dogs.

1st, I don’t have to send money because our family can buy your entire Palestine country if they want.

Yes we can finish Muslim if we want but India is a democratic country.

In 2002 we finished only few of them and we can do it again.It was a blunder by Gandhi who allowed all you street dogs back in India in 1947.

Muslim have less than 65% literacy in most part of India while Hindu Indian have average literacy 75-80%.So Indian Hindu will have 15 points higher average IQ than Muslim .

No they can finish us but we can finish Bangladesh,Pakistan at any day if we want.

As I said earlier America has already finished Taliban,Iraq,Iran or European have started to do it in their countries;guess what we will start it very soon but only problem is our stupid ,greedy politician who have allowed you creatures over last 66 years.

Good bye Pedophile bare naked Prophet’s daughter.



Posted by longlake on Sun, 01 Sep 2013 14:36 | #

You are gay! hahaha…


Posted by India Wins! on Sun, 01 Sep 2013 17:55 | #

India Wins because India posted comment #1000.
Enemy loses, India wins.
Case closed.


Posted by Benefits on Thu, 05 Sep 2013 02:56 | #

I think this is the difference between a boy dismissed from High School in the western countries and a boy dismissed from High School in India.
Your mittal is the 41st in the lis


Posted by 毛泽东 on Fri, 06 Sep 2013 10:24 | #



Posted by Mao on Fri, 06 Sep 2013 10:26 | #



Posted by SAMPAN CHAKRABORTY on Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:23 | #

I think I would finish the rest of the 10% debate which we left last time while discussing about radio and who should be regarded as pioneers in this field.

Recently I talked with IEEE expert and came to know that in 2011 Marconi was also honored with a plaque for his work on wireless and radio.2012 they honored Bose which exclusively proves that IEEE has declared both these persons as inventor of radio and wireless.Remember they have not honored Tesla with any such award.

Now for details you can visit Wikipedia page of of Marconi and bottom of that page you will find a topic

See also-J.C Bose(No mention about Tesla).

When it comes to Strategy all I can say that you have not corrected anything instead you have made more number of fatal errors but as a good guy I would give you the opportunity to clear your mistakes(incredible number of careless mistakes) in all your comments or post because I did not even bother to read anyone of those but others have definitely read and told me to inform you.

But you are definitely very obedient to my words because I asked you to prevaricate the topic and you changed it from Bengali Brahmin to Bangladesh,a country where Brahmin population is less than 100k.

Speaking of Brahmins you should know less than 2 million Brahmins of West Bengal have achieved more than those 4.3% Indian Brahmin in their home.

FYI:India has not produced any J.C Bose or have not won any Nobel prize from their home(I’m not including Kolkata,the capital of West Bengal in that list),but 4 of them have won with foreign Citizenship or working in other land,so you should do a proper research about it before bringing brahmin topics in this discussion.We missed two genuine Nobel laureates(S.N Bose/S.Mukherjee) because of their untimely death or tragedy but J.C Bose should be blamed for his own mistakes for not patenting any of his inventions but now he is going to more popular than all those Indian science laureates added together who won with American citizenship.

But I must appreciate you for telling the truth here that apart from Brahmin there is certainly no intelligent group of people here in India on average.

For this discussion I must finish it with so far the best research carried by Bangladeshi American Razib Khan who did a research on genetics of various groups of south Asian people.

I saw the genetic distribution of Bengali Brahmin,Bengali Baidya and Tamil Brahmin and found that both Bengali Brahmin and Baidya samples have almost similar genetic distributions while Tamil Brahmins have shown lesser amount of Caucasian blood among their gene compared to their Bengali counterpart.

So that proves Bengali Brahmin and Baidya are same but later got engaged in medicine research and made a different caste for themselves.

Razib Khan has not done any research on Bengali Kayastha(til 2011-12)probably because any of those legendary Boses did not win Nobel prize during their lifetime but he should do it now because they are now being proved far superior than any of our south Asian Nobel laureates(I know Tagore and Yunus are super genius)!Also in Bengal many Brahmin used to do the job of kayastha which may explain why they are so damn smart and our most scientific names came from this community although in recent times Brahmin of Bengal are doing best in abroad followed by Tamil Brahmin.

Razib khan’s research exclusively proves that caste was created based on people’s genetics,it had nothing to do with any discrimination with other people who had different genetics.

Just because we speak a same language does not mean we are from same genetic pool and same is true with Brahmin.A Punjabi or a Marathi Brahmin are coming from different gene pool just like an Assamese or a Bihari Brahmin have lots of dissimilarities among their gene.

For example within a particular ethnic group a Brahmin and a Vaishya have huge difference and a Brahmin or a Sc/St may have 40-50 points IQ difference.

So what someone said earlier that Brahmin or other upper caste should keep their community intact had some sort of scientific observation rather than just an obnoxious claim as we should do as directed by our ancestors.

FYI: For my dear brothers of WB,specially if you are Brahmin or any intelligent dude of any caste who has the passion to do something creative then don’t waste your time back in home because it’s impossible to produce a Faraday or even a J.C Bose today working in Kolkata.

And although Sambit said that Brahmin women have not done much in science but in recent times I have heard few of them(such as Manda Banerjee who was lead author of large black hole discovery at Cambridge and few others may be here and there) have done some path breaking discoveries.So irrespective of GENDER if you have curiousity to do any creative work then it’s better to get rid of your home because with 10,000 population it’s impossible to produce big names such as Faraday or Turing.As I said earlier Bengali Brahmins are doing best here in US in terms of our population than any other community but we are just too small.Same is true with Baidya and kayastha community.


Posted by ppc on Tue, 24 Sep 2013 18:34 | #

This is such a shallow discussion that I don’t even want to get into a debate. I am publishing some of the facts here that’s it. Readers can make their own intelligent decision. First of all it is hard to compute the IQ of a nation of a billion people so any studies on India or Chinese IQ lose their credibility since their inception. Second I do not believe Indians have a low IQ compared to other Asian or indeed Europeans. The current state of India has nothing to do with IQ of population but everything to do with history of colonization. World’s first research universities were established in India called Nalanda and Takshashila. Indians do not brag about their glorious past which does not negate the facts.

E=Mc2 was invented by Einstein who was a German Jew but America offered him a citizenship. He said: “We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made.” Pi concept was refined by an Indian mathematician Aryabhatta which has been mentioned in Indian texts since 600 BC. Concept of atom and the atomic model was first proposed by an Indian sage Kanad rishi. World’s first plastic surgery was performed by Sushrut in India two thousand years ago. Jagadish Chandra Bose, an Indian, invented Crescograph. Dr. CV Raman invented the Raman effect for which he won Nobel prize in Physics. Hargobind Khorana (January 9, 1922 – November 9, 2011) was a biochemist who shared the 1968 Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine, he later became an American citizen. Ramanujan the greatest mathematician ever was an Indian too. A lot of other inventions can not be mentioned here due to lack of space. Get educated. It’s good for your health.


Posted by ding dong on Sun, 29 Sep 2013 18:37 | #

Why is it not posting?


Posted by Generals 2 beta on Tue, 15 Oct 2013 17:34 | #

In the near future, world leaders are mere seconds from signing a global treaty and bringing an end to war as we know it when a devastating terrorist attack rips through the peace conference, killing all in attendance. In a world left with no politicians, diplomats, or activists, only the Generals remain. It’s up to you to assume their roles, command their forces, and put an end to global terrorism once and for all in Command & Conquer: Generals 2.


Posted by gmcconnell on Wed, 16 Oct 2013 09:35 | #

Regarding court I can ask the same question why Tesla,Lodge and Stone went to US Supreme court in 1943 when Marconi was declared father of solid state physics in 1901.  Why Tesla did not challenge Marconi at that time.What others were doing at that time?  Why US supreme court cancelled Tesla’s initial appeal in the year 1909 when Nobel prize was conferred upon Braun and Marconi?  Why Us supreme court at that time did not reverse the decision in favor of Tesla?  Then why they they void some of the patents of Marconi in name of Lodge,stone or Tesla 34 years later in 1943?  Do you have any answers to these questions?  Good Luck!!


Posted by Keith on Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:43 | #

Wow!! It took me a month to read all the comments. Very interesting though:)


Posted by middleearth on Wed, 23 Oct 2013 21:18 | #

The 25 Countries With The Most Brainpower

Neither China or India is included in the ranking. China’s position is somewhat vague, reason for China’s absence is given, yet not given. However, there is no mention of India, that’s strange.


Posted by Vicktarius on Thu, 24 Oct 2013 09:50 | #

Im based out of India and have lived through an evolution of people, development and migrations. My take of IQ in India is as follows:

1) 30% Population, Rural and Indigenous: 40-50 IQ
2) 20% Rural, farmers and labourer: 50 to 70 IQ
3) 30% Semi Urban, Low income group: 60 to 80 IQ
4) 10% Upper Income Group, Urban: 80 to 90 IQ
5) 05% Higher and Rich, Urban: 100 to 120 IQ
6) 05% Scientists, Urban, R&D, Corporation: 120 to 150 IQ

Most Indian Urban Women @ 80-100 IQ
Most European Urban Women @ 90 to 115 IQ

It is an irritant to everyday go through the daily grind cos I have to address 2 & 3 through public, 3 & 4 in daily work - which exasperates me totally.

Connecting with 5 as well isnt inspiring at all, mildly dumb. I rarely get the joy of any experience living in the country.

The good part is I tend to make more money than most and have a financially rewarding career.


Posted by Penerjemah Indonesia on Thu, 31 Oct 2013 05:03 | #

I love my country Indonesia. Even my country seems not well, but I love Indonesia. smile


Posted by Chris on Mon, 11 Nov 2013 18:20 | #

Certainly a very active discussion here. Do ratio’s change when looking at hyderabad?


Posted by Sue on Sun, 17 Nov 2013 00:12 | #

Getting a bit too much. Im back to hyderabad mensa enclave


Posted by Bryn Braughton on Mon, 18 Nov 2013 23:49 | #

this is awesome


Posted by kingh on Mon, 02 Dec 2013 21:51 | #

but I think you should


Posted by qertony on Mon, 09 Dec 2013 12:40 | #

I have been into several Fijian Native indian houses in my moves and, as you appropriately say, their success is comparative.  The houses involved were congested shacks by european requirements.  And outside Suva, the places are very much like Native indian ones.  It does seem that expatriate Indians are extremely restricted by the inhabitants they stay among—which is not amazing.  But just about 100% of Fiji’s entrepreneurs and experts are Indians.


Posted by Murad Ali on Thu, 30 Jan 2014 02:13 | #

No discussion of propaganda and persuasion would be complete without mention of the much misunderstood technique called “brainwashing” (Schein, 1957). This procedure was employed on soldier captured by the Red Chinese during the Korean War. This enemy effort had two phases, physical and psychological. Source page


Posted by Murad Ali on Thu, 30 Jan 2014 02:18 | #

Brainwashing is still practiced in Chinese prisons and, as described by Western civilians subjected to it at a later date than the Korean War, includes a strong emotional assault during the interrogations following arrest. Cellmates exert pressure upon the prisoner to “confess.” When he is at the breaking point, calculated kindness is employed in an effort to bring a quicker confession of crimes as seen from “the people’s standpoint” (Lifton, 1956). If the prisoner does give in, he is subjected to intensive “reeducation” before finally being released.


Posted by anonymous on Wed, 09 Apr 2014 12:01 | #

Is the forum closed?


Posted by Curious Indian on Wed, 09 Apr 2014 12:06 | #

Hello, I got bored and returned back.))


Posted by Thomas Johnson on Sat, 12 Jul 2014 04:16 | #

Why is it that so many of the brightest young Indian and Chinese students want to leave their homelands behind and go off to North America or Western Europe to obtain their graduate educations and their first professional jobs?  Then many of these same students end up living the rest of their lives in what are essentially the world’s main European-founded and influenced nations and cultures, in many cases gradually loosing touch with their own nations and cultures?  The native lands giving up so many of their best young minds year after year have long been calling this widespread process the 3rd World “Brain Drain”.


Posted by Chinese man on Sun, 10 Aug 2014 08:14 | #

作为一名路过的中国人,不明白印度哪里出来的优越感!这难道就是传说中的  缺什么秀什么 grin


Posted by anonymous on Sun, 24 Aug 2014 11:09 | #

you should continue this subject in another page from the 1001st post


Posted by rahul on Mon, 15 Sep 2014 08:32 | #

What is Morrie law


Posted by Lol on Sun, 28 Dec 2014 05:01 | #

To Sunny Mittal: u said there is no asian in the inventor’shall. here you are:

could have more.


Posted by Lol on Sun, 28 Dec 2014 14:21 | #

to Sunny Mittal: you said there is none east asian in the inventors’ hall list.

actually there are three of them.


Posted by Sampan Chakraborty on Tue, 13 Oct 2015 03:05 | #

In 2013 I wrote(in post no 981) that Bengali Brahmins living in USA have over 200 patents,but actually our family have over 200 patents.In total Bengali Brahmins have over 1200 patents and this number is increasing in everyday.I’m posting few names who will cross 200 patents.

Arpan Chakraborty(currently 106 US patents).
Amit Chakraborty(currently 75 patents).
Soma Chakraborty(60 patents).

And 2-3 more names with> 50 patents.

This stat is best in the world and communities like white and Jewish are lagging behind Bengali Brahmins by miles.


Posted by michellemabelle on Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:44 | #

my family was requiring a form a few weeks ago and was informed of a website that has a lot of sample forms . If people are requiring it too , here’s a


Posted by Indiboy on Thu, 19 May 2016 21:55 | #

‘But still 10% Indian Hindu upper caste have produced 10 times more genius than what your 25-30% Muslim worldwide have done.’

Dear sonny whichever upper caste of India you belong to - thakur, brahmin, rajput or bania, I can tell you one thing. You can never have high iq. Caste and religion supremacists like you are always low iq.

India has not produced any genius in last 75 years,  so upper caste producing more geniuses than lower caste or others doesn’t stand. If you think 15% upper caste have genius level iq, where is upper caste equivalent of Marie curie, linus paling,  Jean Paul sarre, Steven spielBerg or Albert Einstein.

The only thing in which upper castes excel is crimes against poor and women . Check any of 25 states of India , most of top 10 criminals are from upper castes with a few muslims though upper castes have only 15% population.


Posted by Edie Deegan on Mon, 13 Jun 2016 21:31 | #

Invaluable analysis . I am thankful for the info , Does someone know where my assistant could possibly get a fillable a form document to fill in ?


Posted by Arvind on Tue, 27 Dec 2016 02:49 | #

I wouldn’t be surprised if India’s average IQ is 82. Being an Indian myself, I can clearly see that the current average IQ isn’t very great compared to whites and east asians, simply because of how Indians do not abide with civic order that’s seen anywhere else. Perhaps that’s just cultural, since Indian IQ is on par with white IQ of the 1950’s, and I’m pretty sure they had more civic sense compared to modern Indians. Perhaps Indians lack altruism as group? I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case. Perhaps it happened because the country has been subjected to depredation by foreign misrule for the past few centuries. Indians in the past have made remarkable achievements, totally indicative of a high IQ given the right environment - right from astronomy, incredible metallurgy (rust-free iron sthumba from 2000 years back), architecture (tanjore temple is a marvel considering how the rooftops were built with no base structure while not creating shadows at any time),  chemistry (gunpowder was actually created in Assam around 600-800, passed to China via Pegu), mathematics, etc. A lot of Indian inventions known in the west are credited to other civilizations because they received the info from other cultures.

However, I still am somehow optimistic about India’s future, in that our genetic potential appears to be higher than is currently recorded based on evidence obtained from Indians working abroad. I’ve also met a lot of smart individuals in academia and the industry that would possibly not be possible with our average. There are certain groups with high IQ’s already in India that allows the country to compete with the rest of the world while certain others that are still lagging behind. I don’t expect an African country to have nuclear weapons or send probes to Mars anytime. These are achievements indicative of the presence of groups of high IQ. Not many know that Indians are basically the same genetically (yes there are minor variations between groups) but I believe culture, environment and nutrition do play a part causing average Indian IQ to lag behind others. It will be interesting to see the results of prosperity and more urbanization on the average IQ of this country. It may still lag behind the Sinosphere and the west for a while, but there’s a decent probability we’ll see India catch up to around the 90-ish mark by 2050. (yes I know IQ is relative, so that would probably be 100 of our generation)


Posted by Aron on Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:27 | #

Stupid whites bending down to East Asians. How many times do the world needs to tell that Lynn’s IQ samples are wrong.

Low IQ data on china:-

Wang, 2001 (Average IQ of 76-81)
Shandong province, china.

Hong, 2001 (Average IQ of 65-82)
Shandong province, china.

Li, 1995 (Average IQ of 79-89)
Guizhou province, china.

Yang, 1994 (Average IQ of 76,81)
Jinan, China.

An, 1992 (Average IQ of 76,84)
Guyang county, inner Mongolia.

Guo, 1991 (Average IQ of 76,81)
Hunan province, china.

Fan, 2007 (Average IQ of 96, 98)
Pucheng County, Shaanxi Province, China

Li, 2003 (Average IQ of 92)
Baotou, Inner Mongolia, China

Zhang, 1998 (Average IQ of 80,85,87)
Kuitun region, Urumqi, China

Yao, 1997 (Average IQ of 92-100)
Chaoyang City, Liaoning Province, China

Yao, 1996 (Average IQ of 92-98)
Chaoyang City, Liaoning Province, China

Duan, 1995 (Average IQ of 71-99)
Guiyang, Guizhou Province, China

Xu, 1994 (Average IQ of 69-83)
Shandong Province, China

Sun, 1991 (Average IQ of 69-85)
Guizhou Province, China

Ren, 1989 (Average IQ of 75-85 appx.)
Shandong Province, China

Lin, 1991 (Average IQ of 71, 77, 79, 96)
Hetian prefecture, Xinjiang, China

14 more IQ studies showing low average IQ on China:-
Qian, 2009 (14 IQ studies showing 81-90 average IQ)

Overall IQ result:- Iodine sufficient (optimum conditions):-
84.7, 86.9, 87.2, 75.1, 75.1, 88.34, 85.15, 86.9, 88.65, 90.89, 87.56, 87.31, 97.8, 81.44

High IQ data on India:-

(no subject)
Aron Deon
to me
8 hours agoDetails
OK. I have been working on IQ of India. And have identified 45 IQ research articles or studies with average or median score being 91. Most importantly, IQ has increased in past 30 years.

Most of the doubts on IQ of india is because the region has been poorly studied. Because of lack of Western interest and interest of psychometric in India.

First let me clarify that there are no IQ differences between Indian castes. Here is a book which covers the same:-—DpEQ6AEIOjAC#v=onepage&q=chopra iq difference between castes&f=false

Page 16

There is no major differences between Indian castes. As per IQ tests done.

On non-verbal IQ tests (Raven’s Progressive Matrices), there are no significant differences among Indian castes.

As it is observed via IQ testing that Vaishyas have higher non-verbal IQ than Kshatriya who have higher non-verbal IQ than Brahmins followed by SCs.

Rather the difference between Vaishyas and Brahmins on non-verbal IQ tests (as per IQ research) is same as the difference between Brahmins and Scheduled Castes.


Secondly, the differences among Indian castes is estimated to be less than 3 IQ points on non-verbal IQ tests.

However on verbal IQ tests, the difference is 11 IQ points.

This is confirmed by young lives study on India where test scores don’t show IQ gap. And is only related to socio-economic status.

So, it’s better if India is treated as an IQ statistical distribution and not caste based.

TBC in next post

IQ samples on India:-

IQ of Chennai, Tamil Nadu:-

Study 1:-

IQ of 107 as a community sample. 4 zones in Chennai and 12 schools were selected randomly. Sample size of 717. 606 children belonged to families with less than 6500 INR monthly income. And 130 had illiterate mothers. If anything, the selection bias towards socio-economic status is downward.

Study 2:-

IQ of children was found to be 102. And 95 for those having high lead in blood level.
IQ in Chandigarh, Punjab:-

Average IQ is 99. 5 private schools and 5 government schools were randomly selected out of 37 schools. And sample size is 2400.

IQ in 2 rural and 2 urban areas of Punjab:- 4/v4-i7/Version-2/G4724854.pdf

IQ in 2 rural areas is 96.2, 90.4. And 2 urban areas is 102, 106. IQ grades are available (0 to 10th percentile, etc.) and online statistical tool is required to read.

Rural areas are in Dera Bassi and Tehsil Kharar. Urban areas is in Fatehgarh Saheb. And Tehsil Kharar.

IQ of Delhi:-

Study 1:-

IQ of kids of slum dwellers in New Delhi living in plot area is 92.4. And shanty houses/homeless is 89.4.

IQ of kids who have attended schools is 96.7 (plot area) and 93.2 (shady houses)

IQ in West Bengal:-

Study 1 (rural):-

IQ in Villages in Laxmisagar Village was 108.3 in normal regions and 85–92 in fluoride contaminated areas.

Study 1 (rural):

IQ of 110 in village Tiwariganj, Lucknow and 85–92 in village, Unnao district of UP.

85-92 is in high fluoride region.

Study 2(urban):

IQ of Muslims in Aligarh city, Uttar Pradesh (Average IQ of 107)

Source: “Badaruddoza. Inbreeding effects on metrical phenotypes among North Indian Children. Collegicum Antropologicum 28(Suppl. 2): 311-318. (ISSN No. 0350-6134.”



IQ of Gujarat rural:-

IQ in 6 villages of Gujarat is 97 (optimum environment) and 92 (un-optimum conditions).

IQ of villages near Ahmedabad is 104.


IQ in Maharashtra (Pune):-

86.1 for low birth weight, 92.1 for medium birth weight and 97.2 for normal birth weight.

IQ of control group was 101.38. And LBW was 94.

Based on these many IQ samples, I conclude that average for India is 100. China is 86.

And I have cited more research articles than Lynn. Is it sufficient research data to disprove his work and make sure whites don’t bow down to East Asians on internet due to 10 IQ samples, despising Indians ?

IQ in Chennai is as high as Shanghai (cited above). Same with Indians in USA and other places.



Posted by K on Tue, 10 Jan 2017 03:05 | #

Sunny Mittal, i dont like the language you are using. I am a hindu too. Dont you remember that hinduism teaches us to respect all regions and peoples. It also says the whole world is one family.


Posted by Aron - Why is India far superior than China - IQ on Tue, 17 Jan 2017 05:51 | #

Let me compare the IQ data on India and China. IQ of Indians in Singapore/USA/UK/Ireland/Scotland/Australia/NZL/Hong Kong v/s Chinese living in all these places.

And it is quite clear that Indians in India have higher average IQ than Chinese in China.

I will compare the IQ data on 8 Indian states with 8 Chinese states with environmental conditions as a variable . Fair enough:-

Zhejiang (urban+rural) vs Karnataka rural:-

IQ in Bellary, Karnataka:-

IQ of 102 with 106 IQ for healthy group.

WISC III was administered for testing.

To make sure that I am not citing high scoring district, I have attached district wise reading and maths score in Karnataka:- Reports/ASER 2014/District Estimates/karnataka.pdf

Average reading and maths score in Karnataka is higher than Bellary.

Average IQ in Karnataka, if anything would be higher than 102.

Average IQ in Zhejiang:-

103 non verbal and 97 verbal.

This is confirmed with Chinese IQ map:-

IQ in Karnataka is much higher at-least on verbal scores.

Jiangsu vs UP average IQ (rural):-

In Jiangsu, average IQ is 92 with 2.47 ppm fluoride. And 100.4 with 0.36 ppm fluoride.

IQ data:-

Xiang, 2003 (Average IQ of 92-100)

Average IQ in rural UP: 110 with 0.19 ppm, 96.76 with 2 ppm.

IQ data:-

Average IQ is quite high in India.

Even though the data is comparable between Jiangsu and UP. But it is only measuring non-verbal IQ.

Verbal IQ in Jiangsu will be 8 points below it’s non-verbal IQ.

So, IQ in UP will be much higher on verbal scales, and comparable on non-verbal scale even with worse environmental conditions.

Gujarat vs Liaoning rural:-

Average IQ in villages near Chaoyang is:-

95 in 2 ppm, and 99 with 0.4 ppm.

IQ data:-

Yao, 1997 (Average IQ of 92-100)
Chaoyang City, Liaoning Province, China

In Gujarat there are 2 IQ samples:-

One shows average IQ of 97 with 0.84 ppm and 92.5 with 2.3 ppm.

Another is average IQ is 91.7 with 5.5 ppm concentration. 104 with 2 ppm fluoride.

Again, IQ is much higher in India.

Shaanxi vs West Bengal rural:-

In Shaanxi, average IQ is 96 with 2.89 ppm urinary fluoride. And 98.4 with 1.14 ppm.

Average IQ is 101 with 1.96 ppm fluoride,102 with 0.81 fluoride and 107 with 0.54 ppm fluoride.

IQ data:-

Fan, 2007 (Average IQ of 96, 98)
Pucheng County, Shaanxi Province, China

Bai, 2014 (Average IQ of 101, 102, 107)

In WB, average IQ is 100.5 with 2.73 ppm urinary fluoride. And 107 with 2.5 ppm fluoride.

IQ data:-

Again, average IQ is much higher in India. even in worse enviornmental conditions.
Now, lets compare low scoring Indian states. As per Richard Lynn’s work:-

Average IQ is higher in UP, Gujarat and West Bengal v/s other Indian states. So, these are high scoring Indian states.

The lowest scoring Indian states are: Of course the states bordering China where Tibetans live.

But among Indian states, the absolute lowest scoring states are: Jammu and Kashmir, Bihar, Delhi, Rajasthan and Andhra Pradesh.

As IQ samples on Bihar don’t exist, I will leave it for comparison.

Let’s compare with low scoring states of China:- Inner Mongolia, Hunan, Guizhou and Shandong.

Rajasthan vs Shandong rural:-

Average IQ in Rajasthan is 93.31 with 1 ppm fluoride. And 85 with 6 ppm fluoride.

IQ data:-

No village in Shandong province scores above 85 even with optimum conditions.

IQ data:-

Wang, 2001 (Average IQ of 76-81)
Shandong province, china.

Hong, 2001 (Average IQ of 65-82)
Shandong province, china.

Ren, 1989 (Average IQ of 65,85 appx.)
Shandong Province, China.

Xu, 1994 (Average IQ of 69-83)
Shandong Province, China

Yang, 1994 (Average IQ of 76,81)
Shandong province, China.

So, there is simply no comparison at all. IQ in Rajasthan in 6 ppm fluoride conditions is higher than optimum conditions IQ in Shandong.

Inner Mongolia vs Andhra Pradesh:-

IQ is 89 in 0.5 ppm, 84 in 1.2 ppm, 80 in 5 ppm.

“Effect of fluoride exposure on Intelligence Quotient {IQ) among 13-15 year old school children of known endemic area of fluorosis, Nalgonda District, Andhra Pradesh.” KM Sudhir, Journal of Indian Association of Public Health Dentistry Year : 2009 | Volume : 7 | Issue : 13 | Page : 88-94;year=2009;volume=7;issue=13;month=January-June

That’s among the lowest scoring Indian states as shown by Richard Lynn (cited above).

IQ in Inner Mongolia is 84 with 0.8 ppm, 76 in 2.6 ppm.

IQ data:-

An, 1992 (Average IQ of 76,84)
Guyang county, inner Mongolia.

Again there is no comparison of IQ scores. And Indians are much more intelligent.

Madhya Pradesh v/s Guizhou:-

Average IQ in villages in Mandhya Pradesh is:

98.5 with 2.25 ppm urinary fluoride
91.6 with 3.28 ppm urinary fluoride.
83.6 with 7 ppm urinary fluoride.
87 with 4.85 ppm urinary fluoride.

If you read district wise reading and maths scores:- Reports/ASER 2014/District Estimates/madhyapradesh.pdf

Average score in Shivpuri and Bhopal is same as average for MP. So, they are well representative of average IQ in rural MP.

Low scoring areas in Guizhou:-

IQ in Guizhou is 89 in optimum conditions in villages.

Li, 1995 (Average IQ of 79-89)
Guizhou province, china.

High scoring areas of Guizhou:-

Wei, 2014

Average IQ is 111 with 1.3 ppm urinary fluoride.

95 with 2.33 ppm urinary fluoride.

93 with 3.03 ppm urinary fluoride.

Again, IQ is higher in India. Even high scoring areas of Guizhou show lower IQ than somewhat average scoring villages in MP.

Although the data between high scoring areas of Guizhou and average scoring areas of MP is comparable, the result will be much lower on verbal IQ. As verbal IQ is 8 points lower in China. And it is not the case with India.

Jammu and Kashmir vs Xinjiang:-

J&K is among the lowest scoring Indian state as per Lynn. That’s the lowest in India.

IQ is 96.5 in villages in J&K in normal conditions.

Average IQ in villages in Xinjiang is 80, 85 and 87 with 0.8 ppm fluoride.

IQ data:-

Again there is no comparison.


Last but not the least,

Other environmental factors if any, strongly suit China. Iodine deficiency pr 8.2 new.pdf

% of people facing iodine deficiency:-

India: 30%, China: 4%.

“a third of all children born with IDD-related mental damage live in India.”


China: 4%, India: 44%

So, despite much worse environmental conditions. India has higher IQ than China.


IQ of overseas Indians and overseas Chinese:-

Lets see how Indians in China are doing and how Chinese in India are faring.

If china has higher IQ, Indians should fail in China and Chinese should succeed in India.

The reality:-

Indians have been living in Singapore and Hong Kong for generations.

Both places are known to possess smartest Chinese population.

Indians migrated to Singapore as peasants in British empire. And they were bodyguards to white men in Hong Kong.

Hong Kong:-

Indians are the richest ethnic group.
Income difference:-

90 percentile for Chinese living in Hong Kong barely earn at par with 75 percentile of Indians in HK.

Indian median income being much higher.


Income status of Indians in Singapore:-

Household income in Singapore (2010):-

Chinese: 7330, Indians: 7664, Malays: 4575

2. Education:-

Page 24-Table 1

Below Secondary:- Chinese: 33.8, Malays: 37.0, Indians: 22.5

Secondary:- Chinese: 18.2, Malays: 27.1, Indians: 17.2

Post-Secondary (Non-Tertiary):- Chinese: 9.9, Malays: 19.2, Indians: 11.2

Diploma & Professional Qualification:- Chinese: 15.5, Malays: 11.6, Indians: 14.1

University:- Chinese: 22.6, Malays: 5.1, Indians: 35.0

Indians outperform Chinese and Malays in Singapore on education and schools since 1965.

As per Singaporean government’s published data. Not anyone’s opinion.


One can easily conclude that Indians are much smarter than Chinese in Singapore and Hong Kong.

4. Chinese living in India:-

Chinese and Tibetans are living in India in significant numbers.


“They were shoe-makers, tanners, restaurateurs, hair-dressers or dry-cleaners.”

Chinese migration to India:-—A-shrinking-community.html

“Most of these settlers came from Canton (or Guangdong), while people belonging to the Hubei community, who were dentists by profession, came from the eponymous neighbouring province.”

South West Chinese in India:-

45 students of ethnic Chinese ancestry (North East Indians) made it to IITs in 2016.

Out of 20,000 candidates that were selected.

Population size of North East Indians: 60 million (5 percent of India).

What’s worse. Out of 100,000 candidates; only 100 odd were from North East.

So, it is quite clear that Indians thrive in China and Singapore and outperform locals. While Chinese (Cantonese and Tibetans) struggle in India and under-perform locals. And is constant with the fact that low IQ races struggle in high IQ society and high IQ races thrive in low IQ societies.


Note: Sample size is extremely large and is representative of entire 3.45 million Indian American population. And 4 million Chinese American population.

Indians born in USA have the highest genotypic IQ, higher than Jews and East Asians. At 114 IQ (0.92 Standard deviation above whites).

Chinese born in USA have a geno-typic IQ of 110.

Rest of Anglo sphere (UK, Australia, Ireland, Scotland, New Zealand):-

Indians in Australia score 576 on maths and 566 on reading in PISA.

Indians in New Zealand score 529 reading and 534 on maths in PISA.

Indians in Scotland score 504 reading and 525 on maths in PISA.

Indians in Ireland score 496 reading and 496 on maths in PISA.

As a comparison,

Chinese in Australia score 569 on maths and 541 on reading in PISA.

Chinese in New Zealand score 506 reading and 555 on maths in PISA.

Chinese in Scotland score 498 reading and 555 on maths in PISA.

Chinese in Ireland score 430 reading and 475 on maths in PISA.

Mean scores of Chinese and Indians living in Anglo-sphere:-

Chinese: 563 maths, 526 reading.

Indians: 561 maths, 552 reading.

So you have consistency of test or IQ scores all over Anglo sphere ranging from UK, USA, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Scotland.

That Indians have same non verbal IQ as East Asians while a higher verbal IQ than East Asians.


Posted by K on Mon, 15 May 2017 13:10 | #


‘‘In 2013 I wrote(in post no 981) that Bengali Brahmins living in USA have over 200 patents,but actually our family have over 200 patents.In total Bengali Brahmins have over 1200 patents and this number is increasing in everyday.I’m posting few names who will cross 200 patents.

Arpan Chakraborty(currently 106 US patents).
Amit Chakraborty(currently 75 patents).
Soma Chakraborty(60 patents).

And 2-3 more names with> 50 patents.

In 2013 I wrote(in post no 981) that Bengali Brahmins living in USA have over 200 patents,but actually our family have over 200 patents.In total Bengali Brahmins have over 1200 patents and this number is increasing in everyday.I’m posting few names who will cross 200 patents.

Arpan Chakraborty(currently 106 US patents).
Amit Chakraborty(currently 75 patents).
Soma Chakraborty(60 patents).

And 2-3 more names with> 50 patents. ‘’

Congrats to you and your family. Having so many patents to your name is truly great. You and your family is truly great.I sincerely hope your family will receive many more patents, Bengal too. But people from other parts of india have received many patents too. One guy got more than 400 and he is not bengali brahmin.

Dont say Bengal:::: better, India ::::waste. why? You are an indian first. You are not bengali first. And when somebody is criticising your india, you have to defend india. You are defending only and only bengal and to rub salt into the wounds of the rest of indians… too are criticicising india!!!!

@Sampan, rec1man, Talking highly about your caste/state/religion/language/gender while saying others’ are bad…..will be seen by others as parochial and as narrowmindedness and extremely immature, and also traitorly (because you denigrated your own country)

If you and rec1man continue to talk like this, people will think….these indians are so caste/region minded that when somebody attacks their country they are defending only their caste but not their country. They only care about their caste and not thier country. So please stop this immaturity.

You need to talk maturely when dealing with these kind of dicusssions. For example: When somebody criticises your country….talk about the situations facing india…like malnutrition, intracaste/cousin marriages which lead to IQ depression, flouride in many drinking waters in india, improper education system with a lack of teachers, labs etc. Top central syllabus schools have teachers in top citities but dont have a lab culture. They sent kids once or twice only to the lab.

And tell the world how india is trying to rectify these problems. People will feel happy that indians are actually doing something to develop india. They will feel happy because part of the reason people write these indian bashing artricles is because they are frustrated that india isnt rising fast enough.


Posted by Indian Strategy on Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:49 | #

Hello, curious Indian, I liked your returning back as our discussion wasn’t finished. You can check it on the internet. In the Head Start program they spend more than 7 billion dollars every year to improve the IQs of the children before the primary school and the IQ gap diminishes to less than 5 points at the adulthood. They have been doing this since 1965. The experiment has been done on more than 30 million children. It is your idiocy to say that the children LOST (!) their interest. First the IQ tests don’t measure INTEREST. So your explanation is not scientific. Second, once you accept that it measures interest you have no way of proving the improvement of IQ. In any case of improvement of the scores one can easily say that only the interest of the children increased, not their IQs. If there is an increase in the scores you say that IQ increased, not interest. But if there is no increase you say that interest has decreased, not IQ. Your double standard proves you are bastard son of a bitch! Second, if it is all about the interest you should show a group of children which haven’t LOST (!) their interest. Only a bastard son of a bitch claims that more than 30 million of students lost their interest in the IQ tests at the adulthood. That is exactly what you are! And, yes James Watson said that the blacks were genetically less intelligent. See the links below.
Now, it is your turn to prove that Einstein said (!) that IQ was environmental. He never ever said anything like that. You are a bastard LIAR like a typical Indian. And if the Chinese alphabet improved (!) the IQ of the Chinese the Arabic speaking people all over the world would have very high IQ (especially spatial) as it has been proved that the writing system requires high perception.
Yet, even the oil wealthy people of Qatar, Bahrain or UAE have very low IQ. In Sub-Saharan countries like Sudan many people learn Arabic because of religion. You need to explain why they have low IQ if the alphabet increases IQ. Maybe you can say they have lost their interest (!) in the IQ tests as you are bastard son of a bitch!
As to Sampan, you need to show references for your claims. You can ask Lynn. He says that in 1966 (Chopra) the Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaisyas scored 87, 89 and 92 respectively. So even the high castes of your stupid country aren’t that smart. Maybe if you find idiots like yourself you can persuade them the Bengali Brahmins are the smartest.


Posted by Bong genes on Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:17 | #

The one group that supposedly has the highest IQ in the world is the Ashkenazi Levitian Jew group.
The dominant haplogroup for this group is R1a1.
Guess which group has the highest R1a1 percentage in the world?
It is the Bengali Brahmins.
R1a1 was once regarded as the aryan marker, although the Aryan Invasion theory has been discredited.

R1a1 is also very common among Sindhis(both hindus and muslims) and Konkani Brahmins.
In Europe, outside of Jews, it is very common among Serbians and Belarusians.

Bengali Brahmins also have high genetic similarity with Tamil Brahmins- both Iyers and Iyengars.

Similarity with Iyengars is probably not that surprising. Iyengars are generally more accepting of outsiders.
Also,many Iyengars have family stories which state that they arrived from Bengal during the Vaishnav movements of 14th, 15th and 16th centuries.

What is surprising is that Bengali Brahmins tend to be at least as similar to Iyers, who generally don’t tend to marry outside their group. Which suggests that the link between the 2 groups is even older.

UP Brahmins are another group with close similiarity to Bengali Brahmins.

Sri Lankans also have genetic similarity to Bengalis in general.

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