Mueller has evidence Cohen was in Prague in 2016, confirming part of dossier

Posted by DanielS on Friday, 13 April 2018 18:28.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller has evidence that Donald Trump’s attorney Michael Cohen made a late-summer trip to Prague during the 2016 presidential campaign, around the time a British spy says Cohen met with a Kremlin official there to discuss Russian interference in the U.S. election, sources have told McClatchy. Cohen, pictured on April 11, 2018, has vehemently denied ever visiting Prague. Mary Altaffer AP

McClatchyDC, 13 April 2018:

“Sources: Mueller has evidence Cohen was in Prague in 2016, confirming part of dossier.”


WASHINGTON

The Justice Department special counsel has evidence that Donald Trump’s personal lawyer and confidant, Michael Cohen, secretly made a late-summer trip to Prague during the 2016 presidential campaign, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

Confirmation of the trip would lend credence to a retired British spy’s report that Cohen strategized there with a powerful Kremlin figure about Russian meddling in the U.S. election.

It would also be one of the most significant developments thus far in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of whether the Trump campaign and the Kremlin worked together to help Trump win the White House. Undercutting Trump’s repeated pronouncements that “there is no evidence of collusion,” it also could ratchet up the stakes if the president tries, as he has intimated he might for months, to order Mueller’s firing.

Trump’s threats to fire Mueller or the deputy attorney general overseeing the investigation, Rod Rosenstein, grew louder this week when the FBI raided Cohen’s home, hotel room and office on Monday. The raid was unrelated to the Trump-Russia collusion probe, but instead focused on payments made to women who have said they had sexual relationships with Trump.

Cohen has vehemently denied for months that he ever has been in Prague or colluded with Russia during the campaign. Neither he nor his lawyer responded to requests for comment for this story.

It’s unclear whether Mueller’s investigators also have evidence that Cohen actually met with a prominent Russian – purportedly Konstantin Kosachev, an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin — in the Czech capital. Kosachev, who chairs the Foreign Affairs Committee of a body of the Russian legislature, the Federation Council, also has denied visiting Prague during 2016. Earlier this month, Kosachev was among 24 high-profile Russians hit with stiff U.S. sanctions in retaliation for Russia’s meddling.

But investigators have traced evidence that Cohen entered the Czech Republic through Germany, apparently during August or early September of 2016 as the ex-spy reported, said the sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is confidential. He wouldn’t have needed a passport for such a trip, because both countries are in the so-called Schengen Area in which 26 nations operate with open borders. The disclosure still left a puzzle: The sources did not say whether Cohen took a commercial flight or private jet to Europe, and gave no explanation as to why no record of such a trip has surfaced.

Peter Carr, a spokesman for Mueller’s office, declined comment.

Unconfirmed reports of a clandestine Prague meeting came to public attention in January 2017, with the publication of a dossier purporting to detail the Trump campaign’s interactions with Russia – a series of reports that former British MI6 officer Christopher Steele gathered from Kremlin sources for Trump’s political opponents, including Democrat Hillary Clinton’s campaign and the Democratic National Committee. Cohen’s alleged communications with the Russians were mentioned multiple times in Steele’s reports, which he ultimately shared with the FBI.

When the news site Buzzfeed published the entire dossier on Jan. 11, Trump denounced the news organization as “a failing pile of garbage” and said the document was “false and fake.” Cohen tweeted, “I have never been to Prague in my life. #fakenews.”

In the ensuing months, he allowed Buzzfeed to inspect his passport and tweeted: “The #Russian dossier is WRONG!”

Last August, an attorney for Cohen, Stephen Ryan, delivered to Congress a point-by-point rebuttal of the dossier’s allegations, stating: “Mr. Cohen is not aware of any ‘secret TRUMP campaign/Kremlin relationship.’”

However, Democratic investigators for the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, which are conducting parallel inquiries into Russia’s election interference, also are skeptical about whether Cohen was truthful about his 2016 travels to Europe when he was interviewed by the panels last October, two people familiar with those probes told McClatchy this week. Cohen has publicly acknowledged making three trips to Europe that year – to Italy in July, England in early October and a third after Trump’s November election. The investigators intend to press Cohen for more information, said the sources, who lacked authorization to speak for the record.

One of the sources said congressional investigators have “a high level of interest” in Cohen’s European travel, with their doubts fueled by what they deem to be weak documentation Cohen has provided about his whereabouts around the time the Prague meeting was supposed to have occurred.

Cohen has said he was only in New York and briefly in Los Angeles during August, when the meeting may have occurred, though the sources said it also could have been held in early September.

Evidence that Cohen was in Prague “certainly helps undermine his credibility,” said Jill Wine-Banks, a former Watergate prosecutor who lives in Chicago. “It doesn’t matter who he met with. His denial was that I was never in Prague. Having proof that he was is, for most people, going to be more than enough to say I don’t believe anything else he says.”

“I think that, given the relationship between Michael Cohen and the president,” Wine-Banks said, “it’s not believable that Michael Cohen did not tell him about his trip to Prague.”

The dossier alleges that Cohen, two Russians and several Eastern European hackers met at the Prague office of a Russian government-backed social and cultural organization, Rossotrudnichestvo. The location was selected to provide an alternative explanation in case the rendezvous was exposed, according to Steele’s Kremlin sources, cultivated during 20 years of spying on Russia. It said that Oleg Solodukhin, the deputy chief of Rossotrudnichestvo’s operation in the Czech Republic, attended the meeting, too.

Further, it alleges that Cohen, Kosachev and other attendees discussed “how deniable cash payments were to be made to hackers in Europe who had worked under Kremlin direction against the Clinton campaign.”

U.S. intelligence agencies and cyber experts say Kremlin-backed hackers pirated copies of thousands of emails from the Democratic National Committee and Clinton campaign chief John Podesta during 2015 and 2016, some politically damaging, including messages showing that the DNC was biased toward Clinton in the party’s nomination battle pitting her against Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders. Mueller’s investigators have sought to learn who passed the emails to WikiLeaks, a London-based transparency group, which published them in July and October, causing embarrassment to Clinton and her backers.

Citing information from an unnamed “Kremlin insider,” Steele’s dossier says the Prague meeting agenda also included discussion “in cryptic language for security reasons,” of ways to “sweep it all under the carpet and make sure no connection could be fully established or proven.” Romanians were among the hackers present, it says, and the discussion touched on using Bulgaria as a location where they could “lie low.”

It is a felony for anyone to hack email accounts. Other laws forbid foreigners from contributing cash or in-kind services to U.S. political campaigns.

If Cohen met with Russians and hackers in Prague as described in the dossier, it would provide perhaps the most compelling evidence to date that the Russians and Trump campaign aides were collaborating. Mueller’s office also has focused on two meetings in the spring of 2016 when Russians offered to provide Trump campaign aides with “dirt” on Clinton – thousands of emails in one of the offers.

Cohen is already in the spotlight because of the FBI raids on his offices and home in New York. Various news outlets have reported that investigators principally sought evidence on non-Russia matters, including a covert, $130,000 payment Cohen made days before the 2016 election to porn star Stormy Daniels to silence her about an alleged affair with Trump. The FBI raids also scooped up some of Cohen’s computers and cell phones among other evidence, according to these reports.

CNN, which reported Friday that Cohen’s business dealings have been a subject of a separate months-long investigation by prosecutors in the Southern District of New York, also quoted sources as saying that Cohen often taped phone conversations and those tapes also could be in the FBI’s possession.

If the raids turned up evidence that would be useful to Mueller’s investigation, rather than the one being done in New York, it would be shared with Mueller’s team, unless a court imposes conditions regarding the transfer of evidence, said former senior Justice Department official Michael Zeldin. “Given the sensitivities in this case, I expect evidentiary sharing decisions will be mediated by main DOJ and FBI headquarters,” Zeldin said.

Prior to Trump’s election, Cohen spent almost a decade in high-profile positions in Trump’s real estate company and grew a reputation as Trump’s “fixer.” During 2016, he was an informal adviser to the Trump campaign, proving to be one of Trump’s fiercest defenders in television interviews.

When Trump took office, Cohen became Trump’s personal attorney.

He also formed a law firm, Michael D. Cohen & Associates, which in April forged a strategic alliance with the powerful Washington lobbying firm Squire Patton Boggs. With headlines blaring about Cohen’s role in providing hush money to Daniels, the two firms disclosed this week they had parted company.

Soon after Trump took office, Cohen became embroiled in controversy when The New York Times reported he was involved in promoting a secret “peace plan” for Ukraine and Russia that was the brainchild of a little-known Ukrainian legislator, Andrii Artemenko. The plan would have ended U.S. sanctions against Moscow and allowed Russia, if it pulled back militants invading Ukraine, to keep control of Crimea under a 50- to 100-year lease, if voters approved.

In February 2017, he told the newspaper, he left it on the desk of Trump’s national security adviser, Michael Flynn, who resigned days later and later pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about contacts with the Russian ambassador. But in subsequent interviews, Cohen denied ever delivering the plan to the White House.

Knowledge that Cohen may indeed have traveled to Prague during the campaign could heighten Trump’s risk of being prosecuted for obstruction of justice if news reports are accurate that he is considering firing Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who oversees the Mueller investigation, or Mueller.

“This kind of knowledge impacts his state of mind in taking any action in firing anyone from the Justice Department or Mueller’s office,” Wine-Banks said, because it would be easier for prosecutors to build a criminal case showing he did so to impede Mueller’s investigation.

If the Prague meeting actually occurred, Kosachev’s possible involvement would be especially significant given his close ties to Putin and other roles he has played in covert Moscow efforts to destabilize other countries, Russia experts said.

“While not a member of Putin’s innermost circle, (Kosachev) is one of the most influential Russian voices on foreign affairs,” said Michael Carpenter, a former senior Pentagon official. “When Kosachev speaks, everyone knows he’s speaking for the Kremlin.”

Kosachev appears to have been a booster of Trump over Clinton in early June of 2016, according to a post on his Facebook page at the time.

“Trump looks slightly more promising,” Kosachev wrote. “At least, he is capable of giving a shake to Washington. He is certainly a pragmatist and not a missionary like his main opponent [Hillary] Clinton.”

The Prague meeting would have occurred during a period when Trump advisers had become jittery about publicity swirling around the campaign’s Russian connections and seemingly friendly posture toward Moscow, according to the dossier and a source familiar with the federal investigation.

Campaign chairman Paul Manafort resigned abruptly on Aug. 19, shortly after the revelation that he had received $12.7 million in secret consulting fees over five years from the pro-Russia Party of Regions in Ukraine. Manafort was instrumental in the 2010 election of pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych, who was ousted in early 2014 and fled to Moscow.

Another flap stemmed from a secretive maneuver at the Republican National Convention in July. Party officials weakened language in the 2016 Republican platform calling for a boost in U.S. military aid to support Ukraine’s fight with Russian-backed separatists who invaded Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

The dossier cited multiple sources as reporting that Kremlin officials also had grown edgy about the possible exposure of their secret “active measures” effort to defeat Clinton and help Trump. According to the dossier, Russian diplomat Mikhail Kalugin was brought home from Russia’s embassy in Washington last August because he had played a key role in coordinating the cyber offensive. McClatchy quoted several Russia experts on Feb. 15 as saying they suspected Kalugin was an intelligence operative. Kalugin has denied any espionage activities.

Cohen’s attendance at a Prague meeting like the one described in the dossier would have been a logical assignment for him; Trump had long used him to solve business and legal headaches, three Republican operatives who were close to the campaign said.

One source with close ties to the campaign said Cohen “wanted a bigger and more formal role [in the campaign], but there were a lot of long knives out for him within the campaign and the larger GOP infrastructure in part because he was a Democrat and treated people horribly.”

Cohen was best known during the 2016 campaign for his testy interviews defending Trump. In one case, when an interviewer cited poor polling numbers for Trump. Cohen kept aggressively asking, “Says who?”

Beginning last year, he took a hand in fundraising for the Republican National Committee and Trump’s re-election campaign. Cohen was one of four co-chairs of a big fundraiser at the Trump International hotel in mid-2017 that raised about $10 million for the two committees. In April 2017, Cohen was named a national deputy finance chairman at the RNC, not long after his March announcement that he had officially registered as a Republican.

A millionaire with his own New York real estate holdings, Cohen has long had family and business ties to Ukraine. His wife is Ukrainian, and he has had ties to Ukrainian ethanol company. He also once ran a thriving taxi business.

Peter Stone is a McClatchy special correspondent

Greg Gordon: 202-383-6152, @greggordon2

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article208870264.html#storylink=cpy



Comments:


1

Posted by Vekselberg on Thu, 10 May 2018 20:48 | #


2

Posted by I likED Michael Cohen on Fri, 22 Jun 2018 05:57 | #

I likED Michael Cohen - Trump’s tactless faux pas disavowal while his former lawyer weighs the option to testify against him (discussed at the end of the segment, after minute 32:53).


Untangling the web of Michael Cohen

Michael Cohen Is Apparently Ready To Flip On Trump And Give Mueller Everything


3

Posted by (((Broidy))) on Tue, 26 Jun 2018 09:53 | #

Law professor Paul Campos proposes the theory that (((Elliot Broidy))) was awarded massively lucrative defense contracts (1.6 Million dollars) in the UAM through Trump’s connection - visiting Trump in the Whitehouse the day after a non-disclosure settlement was reached with Shera Bechard to remain silent on her abortion (Broidy, a felon already convicted of bribery in the comptrollers office in 2009) ...fat old (((Broidy))) claiming it was a result of an affair that he had had with her - an affair for which there is no evidence.


...while Trump and Brechard (who looks like a prettier Stormy Daniels, Trump’s type) were both in New York (likely taking a helicopter to Trump’s golf course in Bedminster, New Jersey) the weekend of September 22nd when Brechard would have gotten pregnant.


4

Posted by mancinblack on Fri, 13 Jul 2018 16:43 | #

Twelve Russian intelligence officers have been indicted for engaging in “a sustained effort to hack into the computer networks of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, the DNC and presidential campaign of Hillary Clinton”.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/13/russia-investigation-12-russian-nationals-indicted-2016-hacking/782471002/


5

Posted by Manefort and Cohen guilty, cooperative... on Wed, 22 Aug 2018 15:37 | #

Guilty: President Trump’s lawyer and his campaign chair.

President Trump’s long time personal lawyer and fixer, Michal Cohen, has pleaded guilty to eight criminal charges, including tax evasion, bank fraud and campaign finance violation. Cohen admitted in court that Trump had directed him to pay-off two women, adult film-star Stormy Daniels and Playboy model Karen McDougal to keep them quiet in order to influence the 2016 election.

Cohen’s lawyer, Laney Davis said, that “if those payments were a crime for Michael Cohen, then why wouldn’t they be a crime for Donald Trump?

Davis then appeared on MSNBC and said Cohen is willing to speak with special council Robert Mueller about a conspiracy to collude with Russia during the 2016 Presidential campaign. Davis also later told the Washington Post, ‘Michael Cohen knows about Trump’s participation in a criminal conspiracy to hack into Democratic party official’s emails during the 2016 election.

Meanwhile in Virginia, a jury found Trump’s former campaign char, Paul Manefort guilty of eight charges related to tax fraud, bank fraud and one charge of hiding a foreign bank account. He faces another trial next month.


6

Posted by Cohen's attorney, "he was never in Prague" on Thu, 23 Aug 2018 16:34 | #

Zero Hedged, “Lanny Davis Destroys CNN’s “Bombshell” Report On Trump Tower ‘Collusion’ Meeting”, 23 Aug 2018:

In an odd disturbance in the ‘resistance’ farce, Michael Cohen’s lawyer, longtime Clinton friend and Bill Clinton’s special counsel, Lanny Davis crushed CNN’s hopes and dreams of a smoking gun over Trump’s awareness of the Trump Tower meetings and blew up the Russia collusion narrative by confirming that the Steele dossier was entirely false with regard Cohen’s alleged trip to Prague.

As The Daily Caller’s Chuck Ross details, a CNN report in July that Michael Cohen has information that President Donald Trump was aware of the infamous Trump Tower meeting before it occurred got “mixed up” and was inaccurate, Cohen attorney Lanny Davis said Wednesday night.

  “So Michael Cohen does not have information that President Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians beforehand or even after?” CNN’s Anderson Cooper asked Davis.

  “No, he does not,” replied Davis, a longtime Clinton insider who started representing Cohen earlier this summer.

Davis’s bombshell statement severely undercuts a July 27 CNN report that Cohen was willing to tell special counsel Robert Mueller that he was in a meeting when Donald Trump Jr. told his father about an offer to meet with a group of Russians who wanted to provide dirt on former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

According to CNN’s anonymous sources, Trump approved the meeting, which took place on June 9, 2016. Democrats seized on the CNN report as evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian government.

The report also opened up the possibility that Trump and Trump Jr. publicly lied about the Trump Tower meeting. Trump has said publicly that he did not know about the meeting until a year after it occurred. Trump Jr. told the Senate Judiciary Committee in September 2017 that his father did not know about the meeting.

Davis said that the initial report was “mixed up” and that Cohen’s legal team was unable to correct it because of an ongoing criminal investigation into the longtime Trump fixer. Cohen pleaded guilty on Tuesday in federal court in New York to tax evasion, bank fraud and making excessive campaign finance donations by arranging hush payments to two women who claimed to have had affairs with Trump.

  “Well, I think the reporting of the story got mixed up in the course of a criminal investigation. We were not the source of the story. And the question of a criminal investigation, the advice we were given, those of us dealing with the media is that we could not do anything other than stay silent,” Davis told Cooper.

  .@LannyDavis: Michael Cohen “might be able to be useful to the Special Counsel about whether Trump knew ahead of time about the hacking of the Hillary Clinton e-mails.”

  “I think what he can say would be useful and that’s the way I have to leave it.” https://t.co/1j0yq1kYiU pic.twitter.com/FPrv5aYH7P
  — Anderson Cooper 360° (@AC360) August 23, 2018

Davis was asked about the Trump Tower report because of a statement issued on Tuesday by North Carolina GOP Sen. Richard Burr and Virginia Democratic Sen. Mark Warner, the leaders of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. The senators said in the statement that Cohen told the committee in October 2017 that he was not aware of the Trump Tower meeting until it was reported in July 2017. Burr and Warner said Cohen’s legal team confirmed that the testimony was accurate.

     

Davis dealt another major blow to the allegations of Trump campaign collusion when he said in an interview with Bloomberg News that the Steele dossier’s allegations about Cohen are “false.”

  “Thirteen references to Mr. Cohen are false in the dossier, but he has never been to Prague in his life,” Davis said.

The dossier, which was funded by the Clinton campaign and Democratic National Committee, alleged that Cohen visited Prague in August 2016 as part of a “clandestine” operation to collude with Kremlin insiders to influence the 2016 election. Dossier author Christopher Steele claimed that Cohen arranged payments to hackers to carry out the scheme.

  “Never, ever, ever in Prague,” Davis reiterated in an interview on MSNBC later Wednesday.

 


7

Posted by Glenn Simpson, Peter Fritsch on Thu, 28 Nov 2019 12:26 | #

Fusion GPS Founders On Russian Efforts To Sow Discord: ‘They Have Succeeded’

NPR, 26 Nov 2019:

Gross: During the ‘16 campaign, Glenn Simpson and Peter Fritsch hired former British intelligence agent Christopher Steele to investigate Trump’s involvement with Russia. Their new book is Crime in Progress.

After Donald Trump was elected but before he was inaugurated, BuzzFeed published a leaked document that became known as the Steele dossier - a series of memos written by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele suggesting Russia had been cultivating, supporting and assisting Trump and that, according to several sources, Russia had compromising information that could be used to blackmail Trump.

This dossier had been commissioned by Fusion GPS, a private research company providing research for law firms and corporations as well as opposition research for political candidates. Fusion was first hired to investigate Trump during the primary by the Republican news site The Washington Free Beacon. After Trump won the primary, the law firm representing Hillary Clinton’s campaign and the Democratic National Committee started funding Fusion’s research into Trump.

...The founders of Fusion GPS, Glenn Simpson and Peter Fritsch. They’re former Wall Street Journal reporters. Some of the Russians who surfaced in the Trump investigation were people Simpson and Fritsch had reported on at The Wall Street Journal while investigating Russian corruption and organized crime. Simpson and Fritsch have written a new book called “Crime In Progress” about their investigation into Trump, its impact and Republican attempts to discredit Fusion GPS and the Steele dossier.

Glenn Simpson, Peter Fritsch:

What were some of the findings in your report and in the Steele dossier that you consider to be the most important early warnings of Donald Trump’s ties to Russia?

First, we saw his relationship with Felix Sater. Felix Sater is a Russian emigre to the U.S. who was working with Donald Trump and, importantly, worked with him in the FL-Group, which developed, among other properties, the Trump Soho. You know, this is an individual who was - went to prison for slicing someone’s face open with a margarita glass, who then was convicted of stock fraud - this is all in the ‘90s. So that caught our attention, to see him with a business card - occupying an office in Trump Tower and carrying a business card with Donald Trump’s company name on it.

Then, we found a number of properties inside Trump Tower itself that were occupied by convicted and alleged organized crime figures from Russia. You know, we also just saw a pattern of investments coming into Donald Trump’s properties, and to Donald Trump personally. The other sort of interesting data point in the early going was the transaction in Palm Beach involving a Russian oligarch by the name of Dmitry Rybolovlev - pardon my pronunciation. He is a potash magnate - it’s a fertilizer - sort of king of Russia. He bought Donald Trump’s mansion in the mid-2000s for about $95 million when it was on the market for $45 million. That was a really suspicious transaction to us. So anyway, the sum of that and just the sum of our research regarding his business led us to want to know more about Russia, which is how we started working with Christopher Steele.

So Chris and I were introduced around 2010. And we met through some mutual friends who knew of our shared interest in Russian corruption and kleptocracy. Chris is a Russia specialist. We are real generalists at Fusion. And so when this project began moving towards Russia and we began to feel like there were some really significant unanswered questions about what Donald Trump was doing in Russia and why he seemed to be involved with so many figures from the former Soviet Union - and we began to work with the Democrats in the spring of 2016, we decided to ask Chris to help us out and to see if he could poke around in Russia, in Moscow, to try to get answers to some of those questions.

Chris was the - the term that they use there is the lead Russianist. He essentially ran the Russia desk at headquarters in London after having served previously in Moscow around the time of the fall of the Soviet Union. He is a fluent Russian speaker and reader. It’s essentially his life’s work.

SIMPSON: In this late summer of 2015, I connected with a Republican political operative who I knew was going to probably be involved in the presidential campaign in the primaries. And I asked him if he would be interested in research on Donald Trump, and he said yes. That eventually led to us being hired formally by a newspaper in Russia called The Washington Free Beacon, which is a conservative website. And so we worked for this conservative website doing this research for about seven months.

As the primaries wound down and it became obvious that Donald Trump was going to be the nominee, they indicated to us that the project was coming to an end. And we began to think that, given what we found out about Donald Trump and the concerns that it raised, we should probably continue to do this work for the other side.

GROSS: And so who hired you from the Democrats?

FRITSCH: So we were hired eventually by Perkins Coie, a law firm, and an attorney there named Marc Elias. Marc represents both the Democratic National Committee and Hillary - the Hillary Clinton campaign at the time. He is also - and that law firm represents a lot of Democratic politicians.

GROSS: So let’s get back to your work with Christopher Steele, the former British intelligence officer who was a Russia expert. And - so he compiled a series of memos that came to be known as the Steele dossier. Tell us some of the things in those memos that you think have been most important in revealing information that was validated about Russia or Russia’s connections to Donald Trump.

SIMPSON: Well, I think the single most important thing that comes out of the dossier - which is really in the first memo - was that the Kremlin was planning and running an operation to elect Donald Trump the president of United States. And that it was a big operation that involved a lot of different aspects and was very deliberately designed to elect Trump and not just to sow discord in U.S. political system - although that was a secondary purpose. That was really right on target. It was an incredibly prescient observation that the U.S. government did not reach until months later. And so much of the summer of 2016 we spent trying to stand that up and raise concerns, raise alarms with other people. It’s been a lot of attacks against Chris’ work for being unsubstantiated, but it doesn’t really get said enough that, in this one central point, he was dead right.

FRITSCH: To use a metaphor, Terry, that our - a colleague of ours likes to use, he predicted an attack on Pearl Harbor. The Pearl Harbor attack happened. In retro - and then in hindsight, a lot of people said, well, you got the number of zeros wrong, you got the direction they were coming in from wrong, therefore the document is somehow impugned. Now, the document was never meant to be read as a dossier; it was a series of contemporaneous intelligence reports - right? - which collectively tell that important story.

SIMPSON: There are other important aspects of these memos that have stood up quite well. They identify about a half-dozen people associated with the Trump campaign or the president in one way or another who later turned out to, in fact, be the key figures in the surreptitious relationship between Donald Trump and the Kremlin.

GROSS: What’s one or two of the things in the dossier that proved not to be true?

SIMPSON: Well, as of right now, we don’t have anything in the dossier that we think has been proven to be untrue. Various investigations have found that certain things couldn’t be proven or disproven. The thing that people most often point to as supposedly disproven is this - a meeting between some Trump campaign officials and Russian spies in or around Prague in the late summer of 2016. That has repeatedly been denied, but one of the people who issued the most vociferous denials was the president’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, who is currently serving time in prison. And he was - he sued us actually for libel, and then shortly thereafter his office was raided by the FBI.

FRITSCH: It’s important remember…

GROSS: You had said that he was one of the people at that meeting.

FRITSCH: That’s what the memo said.

I would say it’s important remember that much of the evidence of these matters lies in a foreign country, beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement and certainly the reach of Robert Mueller. On the Michael Cohen Prague visit in particular, what the Mueller report actually reports is that Michael Cohen himself claims to have not been there. As Glenn said, the matter just has not been settled.

[...]

GROSS: You know, as a journalist, you’re committed to just, like, finding the facts, reporting what you found and not being concerned with, you know, taking sides. In fact, you’re not supposed to take sides. But, you know, when you’re - you know, particularly if you’re reporting for, you know, like, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The New York Times, it’s about, you know, being fair and being neutral in finding the facts.

But when your reporting is paid for by a particular side - Republican or Democrat - or when your reporting is paid for by a particular legal group or by a company, it’s about getting information for that side. So was that a difficult transition for you to make? And do you feel like you’re no longer, you know, just on the side of fact-finding and truth when you’re doing that, when you have an interested party paying for information?

FRITSCH: Glenn will have a view on this, too, but quite the opposite. I mean, I think we are - we place as high a premium as we ever did on facts. You know, in the context of working for law firms or major companies, you can’t report anything but facts. And sometimes you don’t need just two sources to get - or anonymous sources. You need paper, and you need documentary evidence. And that has not changed in our lives at all.

SIMPSON: There’s a misapprehension about what we do. We are not a PR firm, and we don’t sell spin. Our clients want reliable information, and that is the business that we are in. So it really has a lot of similarities to journalism. It’s not a cooked outcome. We don’t sell that.

FRITSCH: If you saw one of our reports, you would mistake it for an academic paper.

GROSS: Have you ever turned down a client?

FRITSCH: Yes, we have. We’ve turned down many clients.

SIMPSON: The irony of the Russia affair is that it is a part of the world where we generally don’t do a lot of work. Numerous clients from the former Soviet Union have approached us that we have turned away.

FRITSCH: We actually force clients to submit to our methodology, which is - you know, if you have a preconceived outcome in mind and you’re looking for specifically a media outcome, we’re the wrong people. You know, obviously, our peer group is - are journalists. We have a lot of friends in that business. But if you don’t want to get to the bottom of, you know, a fact set, we’re the wrong people for you.

GROSS: Is there any information you can share with us about what you’re finding about foreign interference in the next presidential election?

SIMPSON: Well, foreign interference in our elections actually has a fairly long history. It’s just not something that a lot of people know much about or focused on. In 2016, we believe at least three countries interfered in the election. Turkey was one. Israel was one. Russia was one. It’s possible there were others. We expect that in 2020, we’ll see that at least three or four countries are messaging over social media and using other methods to try to influence the outcome.

GROSS: Before we wrap up, I’d like to ask, is there information that you found while you were researching Trump campaign ties to Russia and Russia’s interference in our election that you don’t think enough attention has been paid to?

SIMPSON: Yes. One of the things that we came across ourselves that didn’t really involve Chris Steele was the Russian infiltration of the National Rifle Association, which was something that I brought to the attention of the Justice Department and then later raised in my congressional testimony. And that has turned out to be a big issue, although it’s still not fully investigated. Eventually, criminal charges were brought against a young Russian woman who came to the United States and befriended top officials at the NRA. The NRA…

GROSS: This was Maria Butina.

SIMPSON: Right.

FRITSCH: Correct.

SIMPSON: And so there’s a larger problem here that - the Russians appear to have infiltrated some of the affiliated Republican and conservative groups, and the NRA is the clearest example of that. We think that there is a much broader effort by the Russians to infiltrate and influence conservative organizations.

FRITSCH: The other thing that I think still is left outstanding that we spend some time talking about in the book is the extent to which Donald Trump’s overseas ventures have been - have not been parsed properly either by Robert Mueller or anyone else. We’ve done our best to map some of the Russian influence and money coursing through projects in Panama, Azerbaijan, Toronto, et cetera. You know, someone needs to actually think about compromising that, in terms of financial compromise. And we spend some time talking about that in the book.

GROSS: I want to thank both of you for talking with us. Glenn Simpson, Peter Fritsch, thank you so much.

SIMPSON: Thank you.

FRITSCH: Thank you.



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Of Note

Comments

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Thu, 02 May 2024 15:37. (View)

Al Ross commented in entry 'Soren Renner Is Dead' on Thu, 02 May 2024 04:26. (View)

Al Ross commented in entry 'Soren Renner Is Dead' on Thu, 02 May 2024 03:35. (View)

Al Ross commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Thu, 02 May 2024 03:24. (View)

Al Ross commented in entry 'Soren Renner Is Dead' on Thu, 02 May 2024 03:12. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Wed, 01 May 2024 11:32. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Tue, 30 Apr 2024 23:28. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Sun, 28 Apr 2024 23:01. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Sun, 28 Apr 2024 17:05. (View)

Guessedworker commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Sun, 28 Apr 2024 16:06. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Sun, 28 Apr 2024 12:50. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Sun, 28 Apr 2024 11:07. (View)

Landon commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Sun, 28 Apr 2024 04:48. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Sat, 27 Apr 2024 10:45. (View)

Guessedworker commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Fri, 26 Apr 2024 23:11. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Fri, 26 Apr 2024 19:50. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Fri, 26 Apr 2024 19:14. (View)

Guessedworker commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Fri, 26 Apr 2024 18:05. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Fri, 26 Apr 2024 13:43. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Fri, 26 Apr 2024 12:54. (View)

Guessedworker commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Fri, 26 Apr 2024 12:03. (View)

Guessedworker commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Fri, 26 Apr 2024 11:44. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Fri, 26 Apr 2024 11:26. (View)

Guessedworker commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Fri, 26 Apr 2024 07:26. (View)

Landon commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Thu, 25 Apr 2024 23:36. (View)

Guessedworker commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Thu, 25 Apr 2024 19:58. (View)

Guessedworker commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Thu, 25 Apr 2024 19:46. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Soren Renner Is Dead' on Thu, 25 Apr 2024 15:19. (View)

James Marr commented in entry 'Soren Renner Is Dead' on Thu, 25 Apr 2024 11:53. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Thu, 25 Apr 2024 11:26. (View)

Guessedworker commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Thu, 25 Apr 2024 06:57. (View)

Landon commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Thu, 25 Apr 2024 00:50. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Soren Renner Is Dead' on Wed, 24 Apr 2024 22:36. (View)

Thorn commented in entry 'Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan … defend or desert' on Wed, 24 Apr 2024 18:51. (View)

James Marr commented in entry 'Soren Renner Is Dead' on Wed, 24 Apr 2024 14:20. (View)

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