Posted by Englander on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:14 | #

I look forward to the series entitled ‘Thorough refutations’, which I think will actually be more useful in the long run.

Posted by Captainchaos on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:56 | #

Calling the bluff of the challenger, taking a DNA test and publishing the results would be a serious, thorough refutation of Whites as mongrels, if not social construct, meme.  I think the popularization of DNA testing amongst Whites to reaffirm identity and for mate selection is of immense utility for White preservation.

JWH definitely thinks so.

Posted by Captainchaos on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 02:17 | #

If it be our destiny to be swamped by the Third World we’ll need methods of ensuring our genetic continuity and establishing group cohesion.  Popularization of DNA testing could serve as a useful ritual on both counts.

Posted by danielj on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 02:48 | #

I’m watching Birth of a Nation with my English wife and she just said this:

“Give a nigger 40 acres and a mule and all you’ll end up with is 16 fallow hectares and a dead mule”

I had to post it now because I was laughing so hard I almost pissed my pants. It doesn’t really fit in with the “Snappy Refutations” project but it was amusing.

Posted by exPF on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 05:08 | #

theoreticals

“If I was 98% English, would my claim to an English identity be void?

Conversely, if I am in fact 100% English, would you grant the legitimacy of my position?”

turnaround

“Does that mean that recent immigrants, having 0% English ancestry, should have no say in the
debate?”

comparison

“So if an Indian person can be shown to be part Turkish - do they lose all claim to an Indian identity?”

argument

“Even if I’m only 95% English, do I not have a right to attempt to stay that way?”

nya-nya-You’re-Hitler smear

“Well, well, well - the racism of the left comes out. It turns out my ability to make arguments
is constrained by the purity of my blood - will you be measuring the slope of my nose, next,
Professor Goebbels?”

apply it to everybody

“If the legitimacy of my defense of the rights of the English people to exist depends on a blood sample,
will other participants in the discussion of matters central to English identity likewise also submit to a blood test? The bar should be raised that high for everyone, regardless of their stance.”

“If it turns out that I’m more English than some of the other commentators and journalists - will my opinion count for more than theirs?”

[I actually made the same point about 5 times here, kind of boring]

We really need Svigor, q, Lurker and The Narrator to get on this, they have a knack for this stuff.

Posted by Mentious on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 07:43 | #

Not boring at all. Good ones. Interesting.

Posted by danielj on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 11:11 | #

I think you might have exhausted all the possible angles PF.

Posted by Dasein on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:26 | #

It’s a bizarre request.  They might as well ask for a picture of your genitals to prove that you’re a man.  Your argument would be valid regardless of whatever race you really were- the test would only prove that you are insincere and lying about your racial makeup.  I don’t think anyone should be sending their DNA sequence to others, especially publishing it on the Internet.  The participants in the Personal Genome Project (at least the ones I’ve seen interviewed) seem very naive about the dangers of exposing themselves in this manner.

This is a good blog for keeping track of developments in personal genomics:
http://scienceblogs.com/geneticfuture/

As for the Guardianistas, perhaps the best tack is to take up their admission that there is such a thing as the English ethny.

Posted by the Narrator... on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 13:50 | #

Go and take a DNA test then publish the result here so we can all see if you are as English as you think you are.

I think exPF is on the right course here. Of course it depends on how you are interacting with the people you are debating/discussing with…the history, the back and forth, the tone and so on…..if they would acknowledge when you were making a point for illustration and such.
.
.
.

But I’d be tempted to come back with an answer such as, “Well, it turns out I’m 75% English, 20% Polish and 5% Italian.”

It would be interesting to see how they would respond.

If they except the results and say, “see, we told you so”, then they will have just admitted that English, Italian and Polish people exist as distinct groups. After all you can’t be a percentage of something that doesn’t distinctly exist (and recognized as such) to begin with.

If they reject the results then they will have made null and void their appeal to the DNA testing, thus relenting and retreating in that angle of attack…

.

Posted by Ernest Wesley on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:03 | #

Who I am is irrelevant to the idea the British people deserve their homeland.

So you’re saying a member of another race might propose this, doesn’t that mean its not racist?

Posted by Armor on Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:52 | #

As tactics go, it’s a smear really, the unspoken inference being that somewhere lurking in my ancestral history are a whole stack of Somalis and Afghans. (—Guessedworker)

That kind of silly ad hominem is an impertinent way to end the discussion by changing the subject. Isn’t there an all-purpose proverb that can be used to reply to all ad-hominems? Maybe you could say that “truth knows no race”. (it will sound awkward if your point is that race exists)

And it’s a variation on the old tactic of claiming that our people don’t exist or can’t be defined, and so there’s nothing to preserve.

My suggestions (not snappy) :

- My poodle has wolves in its ancestry, but wouldn’t last long in a pack of wolves. Race matters even if you are not pure race.

- The English may have had some African DNA in very small amount prior to the 20th century, but they are still recognizable from Africans. There is still something to preserve.

- There has been some non-white admixture in the past, but today’s immigration is a phenomenon of a much higher magnitude.

Posted by Lurker on Sun, 12 Apr 2009 03:47 | #

exPF - Wow! Thanks for the endorsement. Ive tried to learn from Svi, Narrator and the others.

Posted by Tanstaafl on Sun, 12 Apr 2009 18:49 | #

Go and take a DNA test then publish the result here so we can all see if you are as English as you think you are.

Go and take an IQ test then publish the result here so we can all see if you are as smart as you think you are.

Go and take an AIDs test then publish the result here so we can all see if you like taking tests and making the results public.

Go and take a long walk off a short pier so we can all see if a man-sized turd floats or sinks.

OK, turns out I’m 100% English. Your turn!

I like this testing idea. Let’s test everybody and find out what they are.

We don’t need any test to see who hates the English.

Posted by Wandrin on Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:38 | #

Go and take a DNA test then publish the result here so we can all see if you are as English as you think you are.

So you accept that there is a genetic basis to nationality?

Posted by Ben Tillman on Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:44 | #

They are implying that.

Posted by Wandrin on Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:53 | #

They are implying that.

Yes, but they’re unlikely to mean it so you put them back on the spot.

Posted by stari_momak on Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:23 | #

I think, sir, you have me confused with a Sicilian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXjcf47y-zk

Posted by Gudmund on Thu, 16 Apr 2009 03:02 | #

In reality you are using ill defined scientific interpretations of race to avoid addressing a genuine issue of social and cultural development.
>Collector

Ho, ho, ho!  So race-replacement is “development” now?  Well:  a.)  Bullshit.  b.)  Go fuck yourself.

Btw, race is well-defined scientifically, the “science” of your Boasian idols notwithstanding.

Posted by Gudmund on Thu, 16 Apr 2009 03:07 | #

This is really a question of ethnicity and not race, a concept that is not even accepted by science in the first place, which you introduce merely as a strawman.
>Collector

If “scientists” won’t accept race, then they aren’t scientists.  They’re Jewed.  Fuck what “they” say about race, it doesn’t matter.  “They”‘re a bunch of tomfools.

Posted by Gudmund on Thu, 16 Apr 2009 03:30 | #

To race-blind old “Collector”:

“A leopard doesn’t change his spots just because you bring him in from the jungle and try to housebreak him and turn him into a pet. He may learn to sheathe his claws in order to beg a few scraps off the dinner table, and you may teach him to be a beast of burden, but it doesn’t pay to forget that he’ll always be what he was born: a wild animal.” 
-George Lincoln Rockwell

That’s the only information you’ll need about other races, fuckface.  I don’t need a scientist to tell me that our adversaries are wild-fucking-beasts.

Posted by Gudmund on Fri, 17 Apr 2009 02:23 | #

BTW, I am not “old” and I’m not too keen on being called “fuckface”.
> Collector

Oh, cry me a river.

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:18 | #

Gudmund,

Your commentary is welcome and often interesting, but the epithets here are beneath you.

Collector: Identity is not about genes per se, it is about the association of shared genes with shared cultural and historical identity

“Identity” is a slippery Marxian slope that leads us straight to self-authorship and the choice of the individual.  Of course everyone uses the term, but that doesn’t negate its lack off serviceability to our ends.  We would benefit ourselves by developing the idea of a partition of the ways between “knowing thyself” as a European man or woman, rather than simply as an individual, and self-estrangement.  The spiritually deracinated prisoner of his or her own time can have his “identity”.  But we wish to open the doors of what could be called the eternal European nation, or the European soul - which, of course, can never be chosen.

If we concentrate on this we can do that uniquely difficult thing and unify genes and culture and we can extirpate from our minds all that belongs to The Other.

Posted by Svigor on Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:22 | #

It’s a bizarre request.

As much as I’d like to live up to ex-PF’s expectations, I have to agree with Dasein.  It’s friggin’ bizarre, and I can only think of one reply:

“Argumentum ad hominem is a logical fallacy.”

Obviously, there are many ways of saying the same thing:

“So, if I say stealing is wrong, and you prove I’m a thief, that means stealing is not wrong?”

Posted by Svigor on Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:29 | #

And obviously, after the response “well if you aren’t English enough, you’ll be kicked out if your own rules are followed,” (assuming I actually proposed such rules, otherwise I’ll be tearing my interlocutor a new ass for putting words in my mouth), the obvious counter-response is, “well, I believe in freedom for ethnic nationalism for everybody, and since everybody includes me last time I checked…”

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 09 May 2009 10:37 | #

By way of a thanks to you guys I thought you might be interested in a demonstration of the efficacy of this pooling of ideas.

Yesterday evening on this Guardian thread ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/08/eu-economic-immigration-poland?commentpage=3

a commenter style cmnimo instructed me thus:-

“So you want to reclaim your England? ... go and have a DNA test first. All kinds of surprises swirling around in there.

... to which I flew back to this thread, cobbled together a reply as follows:-

Better still, go and have a DNA test

Well, well - the racism of the left comes out. It turns out my ability to make arguments is constrained by the purity of my blood - will you be measuring the slope of my nose, next, Dr Goebbels?

It’s a bizarre request, of course. Does it mean that post-1948 immigrants, having 0% English ancestry, should have no say in the debate? But no, you wouldn’t have that, would you? Hypocrite.

At least you accept that there is a genetic basis to peoplehood. So you must also accept that the English exist and, therefore, have rights that other peoples have, including the right to their ancestral land.

Ultimately, this demand to take a DNA test is just another smear ... another collapse of the space between dumb white ethno-suicide and rabid Nazis, with nowhere for normal ethnoccentrism to be espoused by the English. It’s just a piece of hate.

It is based, I suppose, on the “old” DNAPrint technique, now totally outclassed by multi-array analysis that can pin down subject origin to within 100 miles. Get up to speed, and don’t talk to me like that again.

... and lo and behold, this morning I find my interlocutor baffled and silenced:-

Although that was the most wonderful piece of work it would be wiser if I just chuckled, savoured it for a while longer and left it there.

The Retro English Policy. Oh boy, where to start. Best not.

Thank you very much.

Posted by Ben Tillman on Sat, 09 May 2009 18:09 | #

Very well done.