Posted by Desmond Jones on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:18 | #

J. B. Cash makes the point that Slavs, amongst whites, are athletically dominant.

  The premise that blacks could ultimately dominate if the game was not fixed against them has been proven wrong due to a reason no one had suspected — that the game was still fixed for a particular group of whites, who, had they been allowed to play, would themselves have dominated. That group of whites was those powerful warriors that were trapped behind the Iron Curtain of communism.

  With the lifting of the dark chapter of Russian communism in white history, the floodgates have been opened and a selection of the world’s best athletes are making their way to the global market. Russian and other eastern European fighters are proving that they are the strongest, the meanest, and yes, the baddest group of people on the planet.

  [...]

  It is not a coincidence that virtually all of the best fighters in boxing hail from the eastern most tribe of our people. These (mostly) Slavic people have a well-deserved reputation as physically imposing, fierce warriors. While many of these people are among the most handsome and beautiful in the world there is no question that many Slavs have the sharp features that one associates with a primitive toughness. Some of the best boxers from that area appear as physically threatening as any of the crude black fighters that formerly dominated the game.

  There are some odd similarities between the black boxers that once dominated the sport and the new white fighters that will soon reign supreme. The genetic stock of the American black heavyweights is made up almost entirely of West Africans. West Africans are larger and more physically imposing then any of the other African subgroups. Compare the distinctive features of the West African to his cousins in the north or south of the continent. Africans in the north have less pronounced features, such as smaller lips, thinner noses, and much slimmer builds. Africans native to the south of the continent are often very small and slight.

  The Slavic people also appear to represent that end of the spectrum for the white genotype. Slavic people are often physically large with prominent foreheads, cheekbones and flatter noses. They too are on the fringe of their peoples cultural scale, although not to the extent of the west Africans but quite so by comparison to western Europeans.

Posted by Nick Tamiroff on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:33 | #

If you were ever to watch “ultimate fighter”,which is an essentially a street fight in an octogon cage,with 5 minutes rounds,you will find few Blacks lasting past the preliminaries. At present,every weight class is held by a White.All fighting styles are allowed,and except for groin kicks,there are NO rules.If you get your opponet down,get on top,and beat the crap out of him ,until he is out or gives up. Thats fighting!

Posted by calvin on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:44 | #

Nick, have you noticed that the UFC seem to be looking under stones for Black contestants? They seem to think that in order for the sport to go mainstream they have to have black champions. Unfortunately for Dana White almost every good fighter in the UFC is White. Even the Latin Americans are phenotypically European.

It seems that the establishment response to White boxing dominance is going to be to simply ignore this sport until the next Great Black Hope arrives. As a counter example, can you imagine the attention that would be lavished upon a Black tennis, cycling or swimming champion?

Posted by Steve Edwards on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:18 | #

I used to watch Ultimate Fighting, and I remember only one black guy even getting to the final. One of the most successful fighters, winning several tournaments in succession, was a Brazilian called Hoyce Gracie (spelling?), but he was clearly European.

Posted by the other guy on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:08 | #

I guess none of you have heard of the old saying, “Scratch a Russian and you find a Tartar.”

Posted by Nick Tamiroff on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:37 | #

Steve E.-That Brazilian just got lunched last week by a 40 yr-old American in the championship round.                      Other guy-I’m first generation American,but both my parents were born in Russian-What’s your point? There are the Cossacks to be considered,who never were subugated by the Tartars-but no offence taken.    Semper FI!

Posted by Steve Edwards on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:25 | #

Royce Gracie is 40 years old this December, so I wouldn’t crow too loudly about that one - he’s well past his prime anyway.

But 10 years ago, he was more than a match for Shamrock, et al.

Posted by Alexei on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:28 | #

“Scratch a Russian and you [will] find a Tartar.” Indeed, this is what many Russians say, and awareness (perhaps false) of Asiatic admixtures in their blood may explain a certain racial humility one can find in many Russians (not necessarily a bad thing). It’s a complicated story—here are the key points. The origins of present-day Ta(r)tars of Russia (its largest ethnic minority) are not quite clear—they may be a fusion of various groups in the Volga-Kama area. In the past, Russians used “Tatar” to refer to various Turkic and Mongol peoples, including the mix of Asian tribes known as the Tatar-Mongol invaders (1200s to late 1400s). It’s hard to say whether this left a major genetic imprint on the proto-Russian population. What’s more important is that the Upper Volga—the core of would-be Muscovy—had been settled by Slavs not long before the Mongol invasion, and the resulting Slavic-Ugro-Finnic amalgamation had more influence on the Russian gene pool. However, among the Russian nobility, starting from the late 15th century, the share of people descended from Tatar nobles who had chosen to serve Moscow princes, not khans, was much higher than among the commoners. Hence surnames like Yusupov, Shirinsky-Shikhmatov, Karamzin, Nabokov, etc.—all belonging to the nobility.

The Klichko brothers are Ukrainian anyway (not that Ukraine avoided contact with the Turkic world), and Liakhovich may be a Ukrainian name. The line between Ukrainian and Russian is blurred more often than not. My pet theory is that the Ugro-Finnic admixture gave Russians the tenacity and will for survival they are known for.

Posted by Nick Tamiroff on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:57 | #

Alexei-{thats my sons’name]-I agree completely with your proposition of the Ugro-Finn links.My wife’s family is Finnish,and when I see her fathers picture at the age similiar to mine,It’s like looking in a mirrow.Her mother is still alive and usually calls me by his name-ASSHOLE!

Posted by Calvin on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:47 | #

The problematical issue with the White resurgence in boxing is that it could be used to support environmental determinism. It could be argued that the fact that a new generation of poor Whites, is dominating a sport previously dominated by poor Blacks, indicates that race is not a factor in human achievement. Liberals will use this as ammo to support their theories that intelligence, criminality and educational prospects are determined by economics and not race.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:29 | #

It’s already happened in the NBA, Calvin.

“Obviously, there are lots of us who come from tough places or situations that were not the best. Not just from my country but all over,” said Stojakovic, one of the NBA’s 44 European players, 23 of whom are Slavs. “For me, I can’t complain now. Basketball has been really good (to me).”

Posted by Nick Tamiroff on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:35 | #

Steve E.-Apparently this was a different Brazilian-I didn’t catch his name, but was in his late 20’s.Anyway he kicked ass on the old dude the first round,but lost his cockiness and confidence when the American kept on coming,and showed a lot more stamina-got his ass seriously whupped the next two. It was on SPIKE Tv,and I’m sure they will show re-runs.Boxing matches will neveragain equate to the Marciano/Wolcott,Marciano/Ezzard Charles fights of 1953/1954.THAT was pugilism.In the Charles fight,they had to wipe the blood off the canvas between rounds.Just reminiscing—-

Posted by Desmond Jones on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:42 | #

Of course there is the NBA’s two-time MVP Steve Nash, who had to overcome—ADVANTAGE.

But you might say Nash’s real disadvantage against his NBA peers wasn’t his skin colour; it was his wealth. People rarely mention that Nash comes from an upper middle class background; his father, John, worked as a marketing manager at a financial institution and, as a teenager, Nash attended St. Michael’s, a Victoria private school.

LOL.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:06 | #

Wlad has a doctorate in sport science and his father was an Air Force Colonel. How impoverished could he be?

LOL

Posted by On Holliday on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:33 | #

“Scratch a Russian and you [will] find a Tartar.” Indeed, this is what many Russians say, and awareness (perhaps false) of Asiatic admixtures in their blood..”

Which is something which can now be tested - with ever increasing accuracy - and not left for conjecture.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:52 | #

Which is something which can now be tested…

Are there any published papers on the subject? Also Cash talks about the Slavic skull and Rushton has alluded to skull thickness differentials between Africans, Asians, and Europeans. Is there any data revealing skull differences between European people?

Posted by On Holliday on Wed, 16 Aug 2006 00:04 | #

See here:
http://genetics.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=slideshow&type=figure&doi=10.1371/journal.pgen.0010070&id=40173

(You can expand the figure, if you wish to see details more clearly).

That suggests some elevated Asian ancestry in Russians compared to the other European populations tested, but that hardly makes them “Tartars.”  Of course, this one study is not the last word about this, and given that studies can now distinguish intra-European population substructure, discerning admixture across wide continental lines should be that much easier in comparison.

Posted by Alexei on Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:46 | #

Nick, On Holliday—Running a search for “Russia” on Dienekes’ blog (dienekes.blogspot.com) yields a few interesting studies on the genetics of Eastern Slavs. Not all are reliable or convincing but I’m no expert on genetics either.

Desmond—The Klichko family was probably well-off under the Soviet regime but sank into poverty in the early 1990s—or would have sunk if it hadn’t been for the kids.

Posted by Desmond Jones on Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:05 | #

Mr. Holliday, thanks for the reference.

ALexei,

Thanks. I’ll check it out.

Posted by Calvin on Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:46 | #

Svy

You are, of course, right. I suppose when we are talking about the influence of environment on human achievements we have to be specific about the achievements we are talking about. The influence of environment on sport doesn’t necessarily say anything meaningful about environmental influences on intelligence. It’s the old apples and oranges fallacy, isn’t it?